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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #132983 > unrolled thread

Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs

Started byJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
First post2020-06-27 16:49 -0400
Last post2020-07-04 20:31 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 519 — 32 participants

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Contents

  Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-27 16:49 -0400
    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-27 17:07 -0400
      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-06-27 22:33 +0000
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-28 02:45 +0000
    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-06-27 17:19 -0400
      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-27 17:48 -0400
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-06-27 17:53 -0400
          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-06-27 22:35 +0000
            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-01 15:09 +0000
              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-01 11:02 -0700
    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-06-27 18:02 -0400
      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-06-27 22:36 +0000
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-06-28 06:22 -0400
          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-06-28 16:26 +0000
            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-03 03:51 +0000
              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-02 20:58 -0700
              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-03 02:31 -0400
                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-03 11:19 +0000
                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-03 08:29 -0400
                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-04 04:06 +0000
                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-03 21:13 -0700
                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2020-07-04 01:56 -0400
                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-04 00:02 -0700
                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2020-07-04 03:49 -0400
                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-04 01:13 -0700
                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-04 12:50 +0000
                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-04 16:24 +0000
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-04 09:41 -0700
                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2020-07-04 14:01 -0400
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-04 14:07 -0400
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-04 18:35 +0000
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-07-04 15:16 -0400
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-04 17:08 -0400
                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-04 07:23 -0700
                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-04 11:03 -0400
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-04 16:08 +0000
                                  Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-04 09:16 -0700
                                    Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2020-07-04 15:19 -0400
                                      Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-04 19:36 +0000
                                        Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-07-04 21:07 +0000
                                        Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-04 14:11 -0700
                                          Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-05 03:18 +0000
                                            Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-05 04:02 +0000
                                              Arlen is utterly unmoved by facts Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-04 21:48 -0700
                                      Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-04 15:47 -0400
                                      Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-04 14:07 -0700
                                        Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-04 17:12 -0400
                                          Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-04 14:15 -0700
                                            Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-04 17:22 -0400
                                              Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> - 2020-07-04 16:25 -0500
                                              Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-04 14:41 -0700
                                              Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-04 21:45 +0000
                                                Arlen makes yet another explicit claim... (wasRe: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs You know who! <no@body.net> - 2020-07-04 14:49 -0700
                                            Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-05 03:14 +0000
                                      Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-09 18:34 -0700
                                        Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-09 21:52 -0400
                                          Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-10 02:56 +0000
                                            Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-09 20:38 -0700
                                              Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-11 15:24 +1200
                                                Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-10 23:35 -0400
                                                  Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-11 04:24 +0000
                                                    Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-11 04:36 +0000
                                                    Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-11 10:40 -0700
                                                  Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-12 12:55 +1200
                                                    Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-12 01:10 +0000
                                                    Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-11 22:36 -0400
                                                      Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-12 04:17 +0000
                                                        Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-13 16:16 +1200
                                                          Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-13 05:43 +0000
                                                            Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-13 21:55 +1200
                                                              Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs delvon daily <delvondaily@example.com> - 2020-07-13 14:37 -0700
                                                                OT: Why must Arlen nymshift? (was Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-13 15:13 -0700
                                                                Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-14 16:07 +1200
                                                                  Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-14 01:22 -0400
                                                                    Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-14 21:12 +1200
                                                                      Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-14 19:27 -0400
                                                                        Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-15 11:59 +1200
                                                                          Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-14 22:54 -0400
                                                                            Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-16 16:37 +1200
                                                                              Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-16 18:10 -0400
                                                                                Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-17 13:29 +1200
                                                                                  Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-16 21:45 -0400
                                                                                    Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-18 22:14 +1200
                                                                                      Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-18 11:50 -0400
                                                                                        Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-19 16:07 +1200
                                                                                          Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-19 08:17 -0400
                                                                                            Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2020-07-19 14:34 +0200
                                                                                            Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-20 16:49 +1200
                                                                                              Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-21 11:31 -0400
                                                                                                Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-22 12:47 +1200
                                                                                                  Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-21 21:02 -0400
                                                                                  Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-17 06:41 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-18 22:15 +1200
                                                                                      Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-18 11:50 -0400
                                                                                        Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-19 16:11 +1200
                                                                                          Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-19 08:17 -0400
                                                                                            Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-20 16:51 +1200
                                                                                              Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-21 11:31 -0400
                                                                  Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-18 07:18 -0700
                                                                    Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-18 11:50 -0400
                                                                      Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2020-07-18 21:47 +0200
                                                Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-11 04:51 +0000
                                                  Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs John Michael <tonymayo43@gmail.com> - 2020-07-11 01:30 -0400
                                                    Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-11 05:55 +0000
                                                      Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-11 05:59 +0000
                                                    Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-14 10:11 +0000
                                                    Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-15 17:14 +0000
                                              Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: xxxxx is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-18 08:37 -0700
                                                Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: xxxxx is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-18 18:31 +0000
                                                  Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: xxxxx is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-18 21:01 +0000
                                                Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: xxxxx is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-18 20:54 +0000
                                        Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-10 15:21 +1200
                                          Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-09 20:30 -0700
                                            Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-09 23:36 -0400
                                              Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-09 20:42 -0700
                                            Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-10 15:44 +1200
                                              Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-10 04:18 +0000
                                                Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs For a friend <notyou@yes.yes> - 2020-07-09 21:35 -0700
                                                  Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2020-07-10 01:04 -0400
                                                    Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-09 22:06 -0700
                                                      Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2020-07-10 01:27 -0400
                                                        Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-09 23:13 -0700
                                                        Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-10 14:20 +0000
                                                          Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-10 10:09 -0700
                                                            Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-11 15:18 +1200
                                                              Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-11 05:00 +0000
                                                              Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-10 22:34 -0700
                                                                Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-12 12:54 +1200
                                                                Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-12 04:22 +0000
                                                                  Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-12 06:07 +0000
                                                    Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-10 18:47 +1200
                                                      Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-10 14:27 +0000
                                                    Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-10 14:13 +0000
                                          Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-09 23:36 -0400
                                    Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-05 10:09 +1200
                                      Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-04 15:10 -0700
                                      Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-04 23:29 +0000
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-04 16:56 -0400
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-04 21:36 +0000
                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-05 10:06 +1200
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-04 23:23 +0000
                                  How is it that Arlen can be this thick? Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs He really has no clue <none@all.com> - 2020-07-04 16:52 -0700
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Kees Nuyt <k.nuyt@nospam.demon.nl> - 2020-07-05 03:25 +0200
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-05 03:08 +0000
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-04 20:27 -0700
                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-04 17:21 +0000
                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-04 16:59 -0400
                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-04 17:12 -0400
                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-04 23:57 +0000
                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2020-07-05 21:15 +0100
                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-05 00:14 +0000
                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-04 16:40 -0400
                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-04 17:12 -0400
                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-05 03:22 +0000
                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-12 10:51 -0700
                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-12 14:47 -0400
                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-12 12:21 -0700
                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-12 15:32 -0400
                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-12 12:53 -0700
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-12 17:20 -0400
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-12 15:14 -0700
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-12 18:26 -0400
                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-12 14:12 -0700
                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-12 17:20 -0400
                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-07-19 11:11 -0400
                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-21 12:48 -0700
                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-21 16:12 -0400
                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-13 09:11 +1200
                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-12 19:56 -0400
                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-12 20:08 -0400
                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-13 01:26 -0400
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-13 07:20 -0400
                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-13 08:06 -0700
                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-13 11:30 -0400
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-13 17:07 -0400
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2020-07-13 23:22 +0200
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-07-13 21:45 +0000
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-13 17:55 -0400
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-13 18:36 -0400
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-13 18:58 -0400
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2020-07-14 15:30 -0400
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-14 21:52 -0400
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2020-07-15 15:26 -0400
                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-15 15:49 -0400
                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2020-07-20 12:20 -0400
                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-20 20:09 +0000
                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-20 16:53 -0400
                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-21 10:39 -0700
                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-21 14:45 -0400
                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-21 16:24 -0400
                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-21 16:44 -0400
                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-21 15:13 -0700
                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-21 18:38 -0400
                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-21 22:53 +0000
                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-22 08:28 +1200
                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-22 08:42 +1200
                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-21 15:20 -0700
                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-21 18:38 -0400
                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-22 11:17 +1200
                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-21 19:14 -0400
                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-21 19:18 -0400
                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-21 17:02 -0700
                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-21 20:09 -0400
                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-22 23:59 -0400
                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-23 00:10 -0400
                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-23 04:59 -0400
                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-23 13:56 +0000
                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-23 19:29 -0400
                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-24 04:47 +0000
                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-24 11:40 -0400
                                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-24 11:55 -0400
                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-24 16:21 -0400
                                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-24 19:11 -0400
                                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-24 17:09 +0000
                                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-24 11:50 -0700
                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2020-07-24 20:27 +0000
                                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-24 18:13 -0400
                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-24 16:37 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-24 20:05 -0400
                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-25 01:40 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-24 21:55 -0400
                                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-25 03:43 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-25 00:06 -0400
                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2020-07-25 14:47 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2020-07-25 14:32 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-25 10:51 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-25 14:16 -0400
                                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-25 17:53 -0400
                                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-25 18:36 -0400
                                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-25 18:00 -0700
                                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 02:51 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-25 23:01 -0400
                                                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-25 23:08 -0400
                                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-25 23:16 -0400
                                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 11:07 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-26 14:11 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-26 14:59 -0400
                                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-26 17:00 -0400
                                                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 23:39 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-26 23:34 -0400
                                                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-26 19:48 -0400
                                                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-26 19:19 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 23:32 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-26 19:48 -0400
                                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-26 04:09 -0700
                                                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-26 09:51 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-26 14:30 -0400
                                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 23:53 +0000
                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-24 19:11 -0400
                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-23 10:27 -0400
                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-23 16:29 +0000
                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-23 19:36 -0400
                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-23 20:09 -0400
                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-24 04:56 +0000
                                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-24 12:04 -0400
                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-24 12:35 -0400
                                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-24 16:31 -0400
                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-24 19:11 -0400
                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-24 17:26 +0000
                                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-24 16:58 -0400
                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-24 19:11 -0400
                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-24 16:26 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs joe <none@domain.invalid> - 2020-07-24 20:34 -0500
                                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-25 10:34 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs joe <none@domain.invalid> - 2020-07-25 13:08 -0500
                                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2020-07-25 20:20 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-25 17:51 -0400
                                                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-25 18:36 -0400
                                                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs joe <none@domain.invalid> - 2020-07-25 18:51 -0500
                                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-25 17:59 -0700
                                                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-25 21:24 -0400
                                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-25 21:08 -0400
                                                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-25 21:24 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-25 21:39 -0400
                                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-25 21:50 -0400
                                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 02:49 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 02:42 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 02:38 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 02:35 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-25 20:04 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-25 01:35 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-25 17:44 -0400
                                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 00:07 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-25 21:26 -0400
                                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-25 21:41 -0400
                                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 02:32 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-25 23:04 -0400
                                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-25 23:16 -0400
                                                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-26 13:43 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-26 14:59 -0400
                                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-26 16:54 -0400
                                                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-26 19:49 -0400
                                                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-26 23:49 -0400
                                                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-27 00:09 -0400
                                                                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-27 18:49 -0400
                                                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-27 19:16 -0400
                                                                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-28 19:11 -0400
                                                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-28 17:47 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-29 01:43 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-28 21:54 -0400
                                                                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-29 00:20 -0400
                                                                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-29 01:35 -0400
                                                                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-29 12:03 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-29 15:13 -0400
                                                                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-29 18:48 -0400
                                                                                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-29 17:11 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-29 01:25 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-28 21:54 -0400
                                                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-29 00:17 -0400
                                                                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-29 01:35 -0400
                                                                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-29 09:44 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-28 00:31 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-27 23:32 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-28 05:33 -0400
                                                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-27 13:33 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-27 18:51 -0400
                                                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-27 19:16 -0400
                                                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-27 07:40 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-27 00:07 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-25 20:57 -0700
                                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 11:20 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-26 14:21 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-26 14:59 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 23:49 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-25 18:02 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 02:34 +0000
                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-23 11:25 -0700
                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-23 14:33 -0400
                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-23 20:06 +0000
                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-23 16:52 -0400
                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2020-07-23 20:12 +0000
                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-22 00:22 +0000
                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-22 21:47 -0400
                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-07-26 11:50 -0400
                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-26 12:34 -0400
                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-26 14:47 -0400
                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-27 10:28 +1200
                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-26 19:01 -0700
                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-26 22:19 -0400
                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-07-27 06:39 -0400
                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-27 13:30 +0000
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-13 23:08 +0000
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-13 20:26 -0400
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-13 16:41 -0700
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-13 20:26 -0400
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-14 02:17 +0000
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-07-19 11:34 -0400
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-19 12:41 -0400
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-20 03:17 -0700
                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-13 19:29 +0000
                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-14 09:27 +1200
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2020-07-13 23:42 +0200
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-07-13 21:47 +0000
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-14 11:56 +1200
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-14 10:50 -0700
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-14 14:23 -0400
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-15 08:39 +1200
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-14 21:48 -0400
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-14 21:54 -0400
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-14 21:18 -0400
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-14 21:25 -0400
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-14 22:06 -0400
                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-14 22:21 -0400
                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-15 02:30 -0400
                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-15 07:56 -0400
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-15 09:02 +0000
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-15 09:50 -0700
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-15 13:13 -0400
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-15 15:42 -0400
                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-15 15:44 -0400
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-16 08:43 +1200
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-14 11:45 +1200
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-14 10:35 -0700
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-14 14:23 -0400
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-15 08:38 +1200
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-14 21:10 -0400
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-15 08:59 +0000
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-14 11:47 +1200
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2020-07-14 17:42 +0200
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-15 08:33 +1200
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-14 16:37 -0400
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-15 08:55 +0000
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2020-07-15 22:19 +0200
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-16 08:47 +1200
                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2020-07-15 23:10 +0200
                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-16 14:41 +1200
                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2020-07-16 18:44 +0200
                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-16 10:16 -0700
                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-16 14:29 -0400
                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-17 08:34 +1200
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-13 17:55 -0400
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-13 23:19 +0000
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-13 20:26 -0400
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-14 21:30 -0400
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-15 10:05 -0700
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-15 13:13 -0400
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-23 00:06 -0400
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-23 00:10 -0400
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-23 15:34 -0700
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-23 19:06 -0400
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-23 19:42 -0400
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-07-26 11:56 -0400
                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-12 16:58 -0700
                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-12 20:08 -0400
    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-06-27 22:30 +0000
      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-27 19:08 -0400
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-06-27 19:11 -0400
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-06-28 02:19 +0000
          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-28 00:37 -0400
            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-06-28 16:20 +0000
              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-28 12:52 -0400
                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-06-28 21:30 +0000
                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-29 16:45 -0400
                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-06-30 04:21 +0000
                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-01 02:56 +0000
    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-27 22:41 +0000
      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-27 19:16 -0400
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-28 00:26 +0000
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-28 00:30 +0000
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-06-28 02:25 +0000
          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-28 03:05 +0000
      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-28 12:44 -0700
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-06-29 11:51 +1200
          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-06-29 08:29 -0400
            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-06-29 13:00 +0000
              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-06-29 11:10 -0400
                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-29 10:00 -0700
                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-29 17:30 -0400
                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2020-06-29 19:14 +0000
                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-29 21:16 +0000
                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-06-29 19:41 +0000
                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-06-29 15:55 -0400
                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-29 13:53 -0700
                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-29 21:16 +0000
                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-29 14:32 -0700
                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-06-30 04:19 +0000
                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-30 04:31 +0000
                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-07-01 10:06 -0400
                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-01 16:21 +0000
                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-01 16:56 +0000
                            Why does Arlen always lose? Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Not Arlen <whodat@ness.biz> - 2020-07-01 10:40 -0700
                              Re: Why does Arlen always lose? Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs John Doe <always.look@message.header> - 2020-07-02 03:46 +0000
                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-07-01 13:09 -0400
                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-01 10:37 -0700
                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-01 19:13 +0000
                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-07-01 15:40 -0400
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-01 12:45 -0700
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-01 21:27 +0000
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-03 11:47 +0000
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-03 09:11 -0700
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-03 17:21 +0000
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-03 10:29 -0700
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-07-03 15:49 -0400
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-03 13:56 -0700
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-03 20:59 +0000
                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-07-04 10:32 -0400
                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-04 23:43 +0000
                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Andreas Rutishauser <andreas@macandreas.ch> - 2020-07-05 08:59 +0200
                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-05 15:52 +0000
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-04 15:43 -0400
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-04 14:18 -0700
                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-05 17:14 -0400
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-03 16:26 -0400
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-03 16:50 -0400
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-03 21:17 +0000
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-03 13:55 -0700
                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-07-01 15:46 -0400
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-01 12:51 -0700
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-03 02:25 -0400
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-03 01:11 -0700
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-03 15:51 -0400
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-03 21:12 +0000
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-04 00:31 +0000
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-03 20:54 -0400
                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-04 03:18 +0000
                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-03 23:50 -0400
                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-04 12:40 +0000
                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-07-04 10:34 -0400
                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-04 11:03 -0400
                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-05 16:00 +0000
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-04 16:19 -0400
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-04 20:27 +0000
                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-05 16:46 +0000
                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-05 17:49 -0400
                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-06 02:09 +0000
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-03 14:41 +0000
                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-01 10:33 -0700
                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-01 19:15 +0000
                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-29 21:16 +0000
                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-29 14:27 -0700
            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-29 09:15 -0700
              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-29 16:59 -0400
          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-29 16:53 -0400
            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-30 04:53 +0000
              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs joe <none@domain.invalid> - 2020-06-30 08:14 -0500
                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2020-06-30 10:51 -0400
                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-30 19:37 +0000
                    OT: Why must Arlen constantly lie? (was Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Just for Arlen <justforarlen@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-30 13:57 -0700
                      Re: OT: Why must Arlen constantly lie? (was Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2020-07-01 16:55 -0400
                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-30 17:48 +0000
                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs joe <none@domain.invalid> - 2020-06-30 13:09 -0500
                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-30 11:25 -0700
                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-30 19:07 +0000
                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Especially for Arlen <especiallyforarlen@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-30 13:59 -0700
                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2020-12-02 04:59 +0000
      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Leonardo Pacheco <lpacheco72@gmail.com> - 2020-07-28 23:58 -0700
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-29 09:47 +0000
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-29 08:38 -0700
    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-30 04:44 +0000
      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-30 04:49 +0000
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-30 05:02 +0000
    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-01 12:27 -0700
      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-01 15:41 -0400
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-03 02:18 -0400
      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-01 21:32 +0000
      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-03 02:01 -0400
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-03 14:43 +0000
          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-04 15:36 -0400
            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-04 20:31 +0000

Page 15 of 26 — ← Prev page 1 … 13 14 [15] 16 17 … 26  Next page →


#133730

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2020-07-25 01:35 +0000
Message-ID<slrnrhn325.vho.g.kreme@ProMini.lan>
In reply to#133720
In message <9YHSG.107292$I15.71812@fx36.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2020-07-24 13:26, Lewis wrote:

>> You are entirely wrong, of course. Every Mac Apple makes currently is a
>> PCIe Mac. 

> Except the new developper Mini.

There is no "developer Mini" and the DTK is not a product for sale, you
FUD fucker.

> Every Mac based on an Intel processor inherently supports PCI-e because
> the Inter processors have that support and the pins leading to a PCIe bus.

Every Mac product support PCIe because every Mac product has
Thunderbolt, you ignorant jackass. The MacBook had Intel chips too, and
it did NOT support PCIE because it did not have Thunderbolt.

>> <https://thunderbolttechnology.net/sites/default/files/Thunderbolt3_TechBrief_FINAL.pdf>
>> In the Thunderbolt mode, Thunderbolt 3 port has the ability to
>> support at least one or two (4 lane) DisplayPort interface(s),
>> and up to 4 lanes of PCI Express Gen 3.


> They are TUNNELED on Thunderbolt.

Yep, I knew mere factual statements would not penetrate your skull. The
word "tunneled" does not appear, you liar.

> If Thunderbolt were PCIE, it would have 80 pins in the connector and 80
> conductors in the cable.

Your stupidity and ignorance knows no bounds.

I look forward to you backtracking on this when you finally figure it
out in.... about 4 years? Yeah, that sounds about right.

-- 
There's a city in my mind Come along and take that ride And it's all
	right, baby it's all right And it's very far away But it's
	growing day by day And it's all right, baby it's all right

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133745

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2020-07-25 17:44 -0400
Message-ID<_I1TG.117751$%p.22585@fx33.iad>
In reply to#133730
On 2020-07-24 21:35, Lewis wrote:

> Every Mac product support PCIe because every Mac product has
> Thunderbolt, you ignorant jackass. The MacBook had Intel chips too, and
> it did NOT support PCIE because it did not have Thunderbolt.

Pray tell how separate GPUs in the MacBook connected to the Intel CPU.
The iNtel chips are off the rack models, not ones made specifically for
Apple with special added interfaces.


>> They are TUNNELED on Thunderbolt.
> 
> Yep, I knew mere factual statements would not penetrate your skull. The
> word "tunneled" does not appear, you liar.

In the past, (such as my 2013 MacPro), the Thunderbolt controller was
separate and connected to the CPU via PCIe.

Intel announced that future CPUs will come with "native" Thunderbolt 3
support within the chip.

Since Thunderbold can carry multiple protocols, including the
DisplayPort output of a GPU, PCEe , USB and likely others, It isn't
"PCIe" since it can carry stuff that PCIE doesn't carry.  And is quite
different at the electrical level.

>> If Thunderbolt were PCIE, it would have 80 pins in the connector and 80
>> conductors in the cable.
> 
> Your stupidity and ignorance knows no bounds.

You are the one who claims they are identical. I asked  how, at the
electrical elevel, you can put 80 pins of PCIe into the 20 pins of
Thunderbolt. Still no answer.



Where you may have a point, which I concede is that if support of pCIe
traffic is a "MUST" in the Thunderbolt specs, then avery implementation
onf thunderbolt imply PCIe support.

However, when designing the hardware SoC, Apple may not need to
implement PCIe and only have a Thunderbolt controller, and only support
PCIe in the software/firmware.

So this bring us back to the issue that while iMac and Laptops would
have Thunderbolt (and thus ability to have PCIe expansion boxes), it
does not follow that the MacPro would automatically have hardware PCIe
support in Apple existing Mac chips.

Sat Apple puts in a PCIe express hardware bus on motherboard, but is
connected via the Thunderbolt controller, it would mean the PCIe slots
are limited to 40GBPS, and that won't impress anyone.

So it still comes back to whether Apple will implemenet hardware level
PCIe in its Soc Axx chips for Macs and/or design one low volume chip
with it for MacPro, or just not bother with the large touwer MacPro.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133751

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2020-07-26 00:07 +0000
Message-ID<slrnrhpi9f.2gab.g.kreme@ProMini.lan>
In reply to#133745
In message <_I1TG.117751$%p.22585@fx33.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> You are the one who claims they are identical. I asked  how, at the
> electrical elevel, you can put 80 pins of PCIe into the 20 pins of
> Thunderbolt. Still no answer.

The question is absurd and meaningless and shows you have no fucking
idea what you are bleating about. Again. Right now, at this second, I can
plug a PCIe off-the-shelf GPU into a PCI slot connected to my Mac via
ThunderBolt. You can argue all you want, and whine and bleat and stamp
your precious little feet and pout all you fucking want, but the facts
will not change.

It is obvious that you will do nothing but continue to spread idiotic
uninformed FUD about Apple Silicon until the machines are out and prove
you wrong, and which point you will spend a year or so whining about how
you were really right, another two or three years avoiding the subject,
and finally will let slip something that shows you have FINALLY
understood something, though even then you will get critical things
wrong.

You will, of course, not admit you spewed endless sewage lying and
obfuscating and shitting all over everything with your ignorance and
willful stupidity and complete lack of comprehension.

Nope, you won't do that.

See, I've been through this before. Remember your YEARS of claiming
Apple Pay had a limit on all transaction in Canada? Remember repeatedly
calling me and others liars? Remember spewing endless uniformed entirely
wrong idiotic FUDster garbage? Remember how MANY people told you the
limits were set by Canadian banks and had *NOTHING* to do with Apple
Pay? Remember the multiple links to stories about people buying things
for thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars with Apple Pay. And
remember how you continued to insist that Apple Pay had a limit in
Canada?

FOR YEARS?

Because everyone else does.

And you were wrong on every point from the very beginning. 100% entirely
STUPIDLY wrong.

-- 
and I swear it happened just like this: / a sigh, a cry, a hungry
	kiss, the Gates of Love they budged an inch / I can't say much
	has happened since / but CLOSING TIME

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133758

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2020-07-25 21:26 -0400
Message-ID<AZ4TG.64766$lI.45524@fx22.iad>
In reply to#133751
On 2020-07-25 20:07, Lewis wrote:

> idea what you are bleating about. Again. Right now, at this second, I can
> plug a PCIe off-the-shelf GPU into a PCI slot connected to my Mac via
> ThunderBolt.

Do you understand the concept that every Intel x86 has support for
hardware PCI-e but that the Axx chips used so far do not since they
haven't needed it?

Do you understand the concept that if you start off with an A14 chip
that doesn't have PCIe but has other direct interfaces developped in
earlier version to connct directly to a disk, connect directly to a GPU,
that you may not need to spend the money to add PCIe hardware support in
your SoC? ?


Do you understand the concept that when a CPU has a built-in Thunderbolt
controller, such controller need not pass through the PCI bus to connect
to the CPU?


So your PCIe expansion bus that connects via thunderbold may not require
any PCIE hardware support on your computer as it will be handled all as
a Thunderbolt connected device.  This means the signals pass through a
thunderbolt controller, not a PCIE controller, the voltages and
frequencies will be that of Thunderbolt, not PCIE. Sure, the same
functions are available as on PCIe, but electrically, the hardware
support Thunderbolt.


Remember that in both the keynote and Platforms State of Union, Apple
made it clear that they were scaling the architectuse used for IOS
devices and Macs would inherit what IOS devices had had (secure enclave,
neural network , integrated GPU etc).

So the path set by Apple is not of just emulating tower PCs on its own
chips, it is of scaling iPhones up to computers.


> It is obvious that you will do nothing but continue to spread idiotic
> uninformed FUD

Why is debating whether Apple will add PCIE support to its Axx chips FUD?


> See, I've been through this before. Remember your YEARS of claiming
> Apple Pay had a limit on all transaction in Canada?

Apple Pay has the same limit as contactless debit and credit cards in
Canada. I never claimed Apple Pay had its own limits.


> Remember repeatedly
> calling me and others liars?

Says the guys whose sole job in the world is tou participate here and
call everyone liars.



> wrong idiotic FUDster garbage? Remember how MANY people told you the
> limits were set by Canadian banks and had *NOTHING* to do with Apple
> Pay? 

You denied there were limits, did not agree that banks set limits.
I never argued that limits were not set by banks, in fact, I provded you
with list of links to variuos bank web sites that ddcoumented the limits
setr by them to provde you wrong. The fact that you are trying to twist
what I said show how dishonest you are. Are you related to Donlad J
Trump per chance?


> remember how you continued to insist that Apple Pay had a limit in
> Canada?

I never stated Apple Pay had a limit. It is bound by the same limits as
contactless =cardss in Canada.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133760

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2020-07-25 21:41 -0400
Message-ID<250720202141079142%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#133758
In article <AZ4TG.64766$lI.45524@fx22.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> 
> Do you understand the concept that every Intel x86 has support for
> hardware PCI-e but that the Axx chips used so far do not since they
> haven't needed it?

do you understand that the a* series chips are *not* going to be used
in macs?

> Do you understand the concept that if you start off with an A14 chip
> that doesn't have PCIe but has other direct interfaces developped in
> earlier version to connct directly to a disk, connect directly to a GPU,
> that you may not need to spend the money to add PCIe hardware support in
> your SoC? ?

apparently the answer to that question is 'no'.


> 
> > It is obvious that you will do nothing but continue to spread idiotic
> > uninformed FUD
> 
> Why is debating whether Apple will add PCIE support to its Axx chips FUD?

because they're not going to do that. 


> > See, I've been through this before. Remember your YEARS of claiming
> > Apple Pay had a limit on all transaction in Canada?
> 
> Apple Pay has the same limit as contactless debit and credit cards in
> Canada. I never claimed Apple Pay had its own limits.

yes you did.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133762

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2020-07-26 02:32 +0000
Message-ID<slrnrhpqqi.2r7t.g.kreme@ProMini.lan>
In reply to#133758
In message <AZ4TG.64766$lI.45524@fx22.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2020-07-25 20:07, Lewis wrote:

>> idea what you are bleating about. Again. Right now, at this second, I can
>> plug a PCIe off-the-shelf GPU into a PCI slot connected to my Mac via
>> ThunderBolt.

> Do you understand the concept that every Intel x86 has support for
> hardware PCI-e but that the Axx chips used so far do not since they
> haven't needed it?

You you understand that this is not ata ll relevant to anything at all?

No, you do not.

The A series chips have *NOTHING* to do with future Macs.

> Do you understand the concept that if you start off with an A14 chip
> that doesn't have PCIe

Making shit up again.

<much shit deleted>

>> remember how you continued to insist that Apple Pay had a limit in
>> Canada?

> I never stated Apple Pay had a limit.

You are a fucking liar. You stated it repeatedly.

> It is bound by the same limits as contactless =cardss in Canada.

No it is not, you lying sack of shit.

-- 
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Are you pondering cheesesticks?"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133770

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2020-07-25 23:04 -0400
Message-ID<Qo6TG.198131$DO2.23971@fx45.iad>
In reply to#133762
On 2020-07-25 22:32, Lewis wrote:

> The A series chips have *NOTHING* to do with future Macs.


Go back to the WWDC presentations. Go back to when they state that they
are building the new macs with a chip that has the same featiures at the
iPhone (neural network, secure enclave, built-in GPU etc.

The low level designs usee for one will be used by others. Not very
different from the A12 used by iPad is derived from the A12 used by
iphone, and the A10 on Apple TV was derived from the iPhone A10.

If Apple spends the megabucks to review the design so the chip can be
made at 5nm instead of 7, it's going to re-use that work for all the
variants.

In fact, what is liekly is that Apple will design amn 8 core  chip for
say 3.5ghz for its Macs, and at production, when a chip is produced with
a deffective core, will be derated to 6 or 45 cores and used on lower
end device. Similarly, a chip that fails at 3.5ghz but works fine at 2
would be derated and used for lower end device.

So it makes sense to have as much commonality as you can because with
that, you same not only in design costs, but also production costs and
increase yields.

And sometimes the opposite happens. A chip may be so well designed that
while being in production, they notcie it woudl work fine at higer than
planned clock rate.  So they set aside those chips capable of higher
speeds so that some months later, they can announce a higher spee
dversion of the chip.  (without having made any changes to it, except
product name). This is what happened to the last Alpha where the EV7
production run yielded enough good chips that HP, instead of producing
the EV7+ as promised, ended up releasing the EV7z which was an EV7
qualified for higher clock rate.

I am prestty sure Apple has a very godo idea on how to maximise design
investment to benefit from the watch to the biggest mac they decide to make.



>> I never stated Apple Pay had a limit.
> 
> You are a fucking liar. You stated it repeatedly.

If you truly have no motive to just insult and lie, I suggest you get
Trump,s mental test. I always stated that Apple Pay was bound by the
same limist of other contactless cards and did not have its own limit.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133773

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2020-07-25 23:16 -0400
Message-ID<250720202316531185%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#133770
In article <Qo6TG.198131$DO2.23971@fx45.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> > The A series chips have *NOTHING* to do with future Macs.
> 
> 
> Go back to the WWDC presentations. Go back to when they state that they
> are building the new macs with a chip that has the same featiures at the
> iPhone (neural network, secure enclave, built-in GPU etc.

you should do exactly that, as well as followup comments, because apple
clearly stated that the macs would *not* be using a* processors.

> The low level designs usee for one will be used by others. Not very
> different from the A12 used by iPad is derived from the A12 used by
> iphone, and the A10 on Apple TV was derived from the iPhone A10.

none of which have any relevance to macs.

> If Apple spends the megabucks to review the design so the chip can be
> made at 5nm instead of 7, it's going to re-use that work for all the
> variants.

it's starting out at 5nm.

> In fact, what is liekly is that Apple will design amn 8 core  chip for
> say 3.5ghz for its Macs, and at production, when a chip is produced with
> a deffective core, will be derated to 6 or 45 cores and used on lower
> end device. Similarly, a chip that fails at 3.5ghz but works fine at 2
> would be derated and used for lower end device.

what makes you think it will be an 8 core chip?

here's a clue: the limitations of a phone *do* *not* *apply*.

> So it makes sense to have as much commonality as you can because with
> that, you same not only in design costs, but also production costs and
> increase yields.

to an extent.

however, what you fail to grasp is that the constraints for a phone are
vastly different than for a desktop mac.

> And sometimes the opposite happens. A chip may be so well designed that
> while being in production, they notcie it woudl work fine at higer than
> planned clock rate.  So they set aside those chips capable of higher
> speeds so that some months later, they can announce a higher spee
> dversion of the chip.  (without having made any changes to it, except
> product name). This is what happened to the last Alpha where the EV7
> production run yielded enough good chips that HP, instead of producing
> the EV7+ as promised, ended up releasing the EV7z which was an EV7
> qualified for higher clock rate.

not relevant. 

> I am prestty sure Apple has a very godo idea on how to maximise design
> investment to benefit from the watch to the biggest mac they decide to make.

yep, and a lot more than you and sms do.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133782

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2020-07-26 13:43 -0400
Message-ID<KgjTG.40264$Py5.6484@fx25.iad>
In reply to#133773
On 2020-07-25 23:16, nospam wrote:

> you should do exactly that, as well as followup comments, because apple
> clearly stated that the macs would *not* be using a* processors.

What name marketing gives to those chips when they come up doesn't matter.



>> The low level designs usee for one will be used by others. Not very
>> different from the A12 used by iPad is derived from the A12 used by
>> iphone, and the A10 on Apple TV was derived from the iPhone A10.
> 
> none of which have any relevance to macs.

Do you deny that Apple confirmed the chips to be used for Macs would
have Secure Enclave, Neural Network, and integrated GPUs like on Axx chips?



> it's starting out at 5nm.

Apple won't publicly reveal this info. All we know is that they have
made some 7nm ones. When/if they go 5nm, we'll know when/if it happens.



> what makes you think it will be an 8 core chip?

If Apple wants to make Macs that have credibility for the desktop, they
will need at least 8 cores.  AMD Ryzen has 28.  Cores matters when you
do video rendering.


> however, what you fail to grasp is that the constraints for a phone are
> vastly different than for a desktop mac.

But not very different from a laptop, especially latest laptops from
Apple with minimal cooling that force the CPU to speed throttle almost
all the time.  (the speculation is that the design was made for the Axx
chip in mind in terms of capacity to disposed of the BTUs generated by chip.

>> I am prestty sure Apple has a very godo idea on how to maximise design
>> investment to benefit from the watch to the biggest mac they decide to make.
> 
> yep, and a lot more than you and sms do.


Yet, you're the one arguing the chip used for Macs will have nothing in
common with chips iusers for IOS devices and be developped separately.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133787

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2020-07-26 14:59 -0400
Message-ID<260720201459085729%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#133782
In article <KgjTG.40264$Py5.6484@fx25.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> > you should do exactly that, as well as followup comments, because apple
> > clearly stated that the macs would *not* be using a* processors.
> 
> What name marketing gives to those chips when they come up doesn't matter.

so you agree it won't be the same as a souped up iphone chip. progress.

> >> The low level designs usee for one will be used by others. Not very
> >> different from the A12 used by iPad is derived from the A12 used by
> >> iphone, and the A10 on Apple TV was derived from the iPhone A10.
> > 
> > none of which have any relevance to macs.
> 
> Do you deny that Apple confirmed the chips to be used for Macs would
> have Secure Enclave, Neural Network, and integrated GPUs like on Axx chips?

that doesn't mean they're the same chip.

once again, the constraints for something intended for a phone do not
apply to a mac. why is this concept so difficult to understand?

> > it's starting out at 5nm.
> 
> Apple won't publicly reveal this info. All we know is that they have
> made some 7nm ones. When/if they go 5nm, we'll know when/if it happens.

tsmc is already at 5nm, and they'll be fabbing it.

> > what makes you think it will be an 8 core chip?
> 
> If Apple wants to make Macs that have credibility for the desktop, they
> will need at least 8 cores. 

nope. all they need to do is make something that matches or exceeds
existing solutions. the number of cores does not matter, but suffice it
to say, that number will surprise you.

> AMD Ryzen has 28.  

ryzen is not arm, making it entirely irrelevant.

> Cores matters when you
> do video rendering.

nope. what matters is performance.

macs and ios devices have dedicated hardware encoding and decoding.

one key advantage apple has over intel, amd and qualcomm is that they
can add whatever dedicated hardware they want. 

> > however, what you fail to grasp is that the constraints for a phone are
> > vastly different than for a desktop mac.
> 
> But not very different from a laptop, 

very different from a laptop.

> especially latest laptops from
> Apple with minimal cooling that force the CPU to speed throttle almost
> all the time. 

nope. not almost all the time. 

it does happen, but it's infrequent.

> (the speculation is that the design was made for the Axx
> chip in mind in terms of capacity to disposed of the BTUs generated by chip.

no such speculation exists, except in your head.

> >> I am prestty sure Apple has a very godo idea on how to maximise design
> >> investment to benefit from the watch to the biggest mac they decide to
> >> make.
> > 
> > yep, and a lot more than you and sms do.
> 
> Yet, you're the one arguing the chip used for Macs will have nothing in
> common with chips iusers for IOS devices and be developped separately.

i didn't say nothing in common. 

what i said was is that it will be an entirely different design, just
as an intel core-m is a different design than an intel xeon. they're
both optimized for entirely different use cases, although they do share
some stuff.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133790

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2020-07-26 16:54 -0400
Message-ID<74mTG.53276$BL.26025@fx16.iad>
In reply to#133787
On 2020-07-26 14:59, nospam wrote:

> so you agree it won't be the same as a souped up iphone chip. progress.

I never said they woudl be the same. The fact that I argued on whether
Apple could design a new chiup just for the Mac pro shows that I never
expect the actual iPhone chip to be used unmodified on macs.

What I argued is that the Apple would develop derivatives of the same
generation for its variaty of devices, just as it does now for iPhone,
iWatch and iPad ( Apple TV uses iPad chips so those chips are likely
designed from the start to handle both iPad and Apple TV.


> that doesn't mean they're the same chip.

There are actually instances where different chip models are physically
the same chips, but one is derated to lower speed or has cores disabled.

There are often financial advantages to having a single design produced
different derivatives simply through configuration.


In Apple case, the watch needs a phsyically smaller SoC and a desktop
will likely have more cores (or space for more cores) and more IO
interfaces in the chip, so likely a different socket (aka pins when SoC
is soldered). However, internally, the core designs are likely to be
identical, same with secure enclave and neural network and other shared
componemts.

Memory controller may be different between desktop and IOS devices
(since desktops are more likely to use multi core than the traditionally
single tasked IOS device).  (playing music on a separate core doesn't
require that core to be strong, but doing video rendeering on a desktop
will want to use all cores at 100% so performance of memory access
matters more than on IOS).


> tsmc is already at 5nm, and they'll be fabbing it.

This doesn't mean that Apple will want to spend the considerable time
and money to move to 5nm this year. It is a lot of work to shrink a chip
design, at a time when Apple is very busy creating the desktop
derivatives as well as improving current design.

And with Intel far away from using 7nm (they just announced a new
delay), there is less rush for Apple to move to 5.


> nope. all they need to do is make something that matches or exceeds
> existing solutions. the number of cores does not matter, but suffice it
> to say, that number will surprise you.

If Apple wants to be credible they need many cores.  This is especially
true of their computers are limited to Metal and 1 GPU with OpenGL only
supported in legacy mode.


>> AMD Ryzen has 28.  
> 
> ryzen is not arm, making it entirely irrelevant.

Relevant when you are competing in the wintel market with your own chips.

Where Apple will have an advantage is that its cores will be cooler so
can remain at maximum speed longer whereas if you run 28 cores at max,
the heating will start to throttle their speed down unless you have very
fancy cooling.


> macs and ios devices have dedicated hardware encoding and decoding.

IOS devices are geared towards single user playing a game or watching 1
movie. Not geared to wards encoding videos where the software uses as
many cores as are available to do as much work in parralel as it can.



> one key advantage apple has over intel, amd and qualcomm is that they
> can add whatever dedicated hardware they want. 

The addition of dedicated processors such as neural network is neat in
keynotes, but unless applications are written to actually make use of
it, it isn't very useful except for the poop emoji.  Consider 3d touch
and task bar which aren't used and Apple moving away from them,

Neural network used for faceID so needed, but it doesn't mean that many
apps make use or benefit from it.

Your view is clouded by keynotes that show one or two software vendors
who agreed to support Apple's proprietary stuff like Metal or neural
network.


>> especially latest laptops from
>> Apple with minimal cooling that force the CPU to speed throttle almost
>> all the time. 
> 
> nope. not almost all the time. 

LTT Tech Tips did some tests of one of the latests MacBooks and found
the CPU never reaches the Intel stated speed because the temperature
quickly rises to 100° when thorttling kicks in. They found the colling
to be inadequate for that chip, but magically would be adequate for an
ARM chip.



> what i said was is that it will be an entirely different design, just
> as an intel core-m is a different design than an intel xeon. they're
> both optimized for entirely different use cases, although they do share
> some stuff.

It doesn't make much sense for Apple to have 2 separate development
trees.  Considering the pace they are able to maintain for chips aimed
at IOS, Apple would benefit greatly from sourcing its Mac chips from the
same developments.  They'll obviously have folks assigned to the
Mac-specific parts of the chip but they should incorporate core
impromevemts , GPU imporvements etc as soon and as often as they can in
their Mac derivatives. These may or may not follow the annual release
cycle we have seen for IOS devices.



[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133797

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2020-07-26 19:49 -0400
Message-ID<260720201949019297%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#133790
\In article <74mTG.53276$BL.26025@fx16.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> What I argued is that the Apple would develop derivatives of the same
> generation for its variaty of devices, just as it does now for iPhone,
> iWatch and iPad ( Apple TV uses iPad chips so those chips are likely
> designed from the start to handle both iPad and Apple TV.

your argument is wrong. 

> > that doesn't mean they're the same chip.
> 
> There are actually instances where different chip models are physically
> the same chips, but one is derated to lower speed or has cores disabled.

not relevant. 

apple is not going to make one chip and bin it for macs and phones.

> There are often financial advantages to having a single design produced
> different derivatives simply through configuration.

there could be, but that results in shitty products.

> In Apple case, the watch needs a phsyically smaller SoC and a desktop
> will likely have more cores (or space for more cores) and more IO
> interfaces in the chip, so likely a different socket (aka pins when SoC
> is soldered). However, internally, the core designs are likely to be
> identical, same with secure enclave and neural network and other shared
> componemts.

the cores might be the same (although not necessarily so) but the
overall design won't be.

> Memory controller may be different between desktop and IOS devices
> (since desktops are more likely to use multi core than the traditionally
> single tasked IOS device).  (playing music on a separate core doesn't
> require that core to be strong, but doing video rendeering on a desktop
> will want to use all cores at 100% so performance of memory access
> matters more than on IOS).

what part of hardware acceleration is not clear?

> > tsmc is already at 5nm, and they'll be fabbing it.
> 
> This doesn't mean that Apple will want to spend the considerable time
> and money to move to 5nm this year. It is a lot of work to shrink a chip
> design, at a time when Apple is very busy creating the desktop
> derivatives as well as improving current design.

tsmc is already at 5nm.

> And with Intel far away from using 7nm (they just announced a new
> delay), there is less rush for Apple to move to 5.

nope. it's an excellent opportunity to move even further ahead than
they already are.

intel is totally fucked. hopefully for their sake they are able to turn
things around, but it doesn't look good.

> > nope. all they need to do is make something that matches or exceeds
> > existing solutions. the number of cores does not matter, but suffice it
> > to say, that number will surprise you.
> 
> If Apple wants to be credible they need many cores.  This is especially
> true of their computers are limited to Metal and 1 GPU with OpenGL only
> supported in legacy mode.

no they don't. 

all that matters is if apple silicon macs are faster than existing
solutions and it definitely looks like it will be.

> >> AMD Ryzen has 28.  
> > 
> > ryzen is not arm, making it entirely irrelevant.
> 
> Relevant when you are competing in the wintel market with your own chips.

arm cores do not have a 1-1 mapping to intel/amd cores, therefore it's
irrelevant.

> Where Apple will have an advantage is that its cores will be cooler so
> can remain at maximum speed longer whereas if you run 28 cores at max,
> the heating will start to throttle their speed down unless you have very
> fancy cooling.

apple silicon has all sorts of advantages.

> > macs and ios devices have dedicated hardware encoding and decoding.
> 
> IOS devices are geared towards single user playing a game or watching 1
> movie. Not geared to wards encoding videos where the software uses as
> many cores as are available to do as much work in parralel as it can.

nonsense.

an ipad pro can render video faster than macbook pros and pc laptops,
and that's with a processor not designed to compete with laptops.

> > one key advantage apple has over intel, amd and qualcomm is that they
> > can add whatever dedicated hardware they want. 
> 
> The addition of dedicated processors such as neural network is neat in
> keynotes, but unless applications are written to actually make use of
> it, it isn't very useful except for the poop emoji.  Consider 3d touch
> and task bar which aren't used and Apple moving away from them,

there is no evidence apple is moving away from the touchbar unless they
move to a full touchscreen, where a touchbar would be redundant.

there are rumours they might be doing that, but there is also evidence
they will not.

> Neural network used for faceID so needed, but it doesn't mean that many
> apps make use or benefit from it.

false.

> Your view is clouded by keynotes that show one or two software vendors
> who agreed to support Apple's proprietary stuff like Metal or neural
> network.

nope.



> > what i said was is that it will be an entirely different design, just
> > as an intel core-m is a different design than an intel xeon. they're
> > both optimized for entirely different use cases, although they do share
> > some stuff.
> 
> It doesn't make much sense for Apple to have 2 separate development
> trees.

yes it does, just as they do for macos, ios, ipados, watchos, tvos and
bridgeos.

each one is optimized for different things, with the biggest difference
between macos and ios (appkit v. uikit).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133805

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2020-07-26 23:49 -0400
Message-ID<m9sTG.83959$GQ4.24582@fx02.iad>
In reply to#133797
On 2020-07-26 19:49, nospam wrote:

> the cores might be the same (although not necessarily so) but the
> overall design won't be.

So you agree there is commonality. Will you widthdraw the insults thrown
against me now?


> tsmc is already at 5nm.

It does not mean that Apple or Anyone is ready with designs that will
have reasonable yields if produced at 5nm.


> all that matters is if apple silicon macs are faster than existing
> solutions and it definitely looks like it will be.

There are benchmarks around that show that the Axx chips alreayd match
pretty closely the Intel equivalents.

he issues has to do with how much Apple needs to add to the Axx chips to
make Macs, in particular the Mac Pro.


> arm cores do not have a 1-1 mapping to intel/amd cores, therefore it's
> irrelevant.

There is no way a 6 core Axx chip will process videos faster than a 28
core Ryzen.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133806

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2020-07-27 00:09 -0400
Message-ID<270720200009035410%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#133805
In article <m9sTG.83959$GQ4.24582@fx02.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> 
> > the cores might be the same (although not necessarily so) but the
> > overall design won't be.
> 
> So you agree there is commonality.

nowhere near the level you claim.

the instruction set is common. beyond that, very little. 

> Will you widthdraw the insults thrown
> against me now?

only if you stop saying stupid shit, which given what you wrote below,
isn't happening any time soon.

> > tsmc is already at 5nm.
> 
> It does not mean that Apple or Anyone is ready with designs that will
> have reasonable yields if produced at 5nm.

yes it does.

> > all that matters is if apple silicon macs are faster than existing
> > solutions and it definitely looks like it will be.
> 
> There are benchmarks around that show that the Axx chips alreayd match
> pretty closely the Intel equivalents.

which means that chips designed specifically for macs will be much
better than an a* series.

you're catching on...

> he issues has to do with how much Apple needs to add to the Axx chips to
> make Macs, in particular the Mac Pro.

...or not. 

apple is not adding anything to the a* series.

> > arm cores do not have a 1-1 mapping to intel/amd cores, therefore it's
> > irrelevant.
> 
> There is no way a 6 core Axx chip will process videos faster than a 28
> core Ryzen.

fail #1, a 6 core a* chip isn't what's going into a mac.
fail #2, a 28 core ryzen isn't what goes into most pcs.
fail #3, apple uses hardware acceleration for video rendering.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133812

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2020-07-27 18:49 -0400
Message-ID<xRITG.133849$575.128960@fx38.iad>
In reply to#133806
On 2020-07-27 00:09, nospam wrote:

>> So you agree there is commonality.
> 
> nowhere near the level you claim.
> 
> the instruction set is common. beyond that, very little. 

So you no longer agree about shared core designs?

> which means that chips designed specifically for macs will be much
> better than an a* series.

benchmarks for A13 show it being ob ar with Core i5.

https://youtu.be/LCU_q7QEkGI

the Axx chips already competitive against Intel chips. Though they
generally lag on multicore performance.  (though the A12 beats a 10th
gen Core i7.)

)some of these tests require you pause strategically because the guy
doesn't leave the results long enough).

The surprise is the difference between Rosetta2 translated binaries vs
natively compiles, The performance hit is greater than I expected. I
guess the translator can't really optimize the code soince it lacks
context of instruction dependancies.

> apple is not adding anything to the a* series.

You can beleive what you want. But Apple would be stupid to develop the
Mac chips totally separately since the product lines have so much in common.

> fail #1, a 6 core a* chip isn't what's going into a mac.
> fail #2, a 28 core ryzen isn't what goes into most pcs.
> fail #3, apple uses hardware acceleration for video rendering.

MacPro currently configurable from 7 to 28 cores. So making an Axx chip
with 28 cores is not out of the question IF Apple decides to make a MacPro.

The MacPro also supports up to 4 fancy GPUs. How many you configure
changes the price of your computer. Will apple integrate 4 of its own
GPUs into the SoC for MacPro and not proce MacPros differently whether
you need 1 or 4 GPUs ?


The Apple Afterburner proRes RAW card is a PCI Express card. And onlt
helps oib you have ProRes sources. And a lot of people work
Premiuere/After Effects with tenmporary smaller resiolution copies and
then do final render on the prores sourcse, so that module not really
used much.




"hardware acceleration" is marketing gobbledeegook.  Apple,s
presentation made it clean the chips used on Macs will be similar to the
ones on iPhone/iPad with integrated Apple GPU.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133816

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2020-07-27 19:16 -0400
Message-ID<270720201916065879%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#133812
In article <xRITG.133849$575.128960@fx38.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> 
> >> So you agree there is commonality.
> > 
> > nowhere near the level you claim.
> > 
> > the instruction set is common. beyond that, very little. 
> 
> So you no longer agree about shared core designs?

i never agreed.

> > which means that chips designed specifically for macs will be much
> > better than an a* series.
> 
> benchmarks for A13 show it being ob ar with Core i5.
> 
> https://youtu.be/LCU_q7QEkGI
> 
> the Axx chips already competitive against Intel chips. Though they
> generally lag on multicore performance.  (though the A12 beats a 10th
> gen Core i7.)

none of that is relevant to apple silicon macs.

> )some of these tests require you pause strategically because the guy
> doesn't leave the results long enough).

plenty long enough, and i was watching it at 2x.

> The surprise is the difference between Rosetta2 translated binaries vs
> natively compiles, The performance hit is greater than I expected. I
> guess the translator can't really optimize the code soince it lacks
> context of instruction dependancies.

pay full attention starting at 5:43, where he said it was with an
existing processor, not what will go into a future apple silicon mac,
exactly what you've been repeatedly told.

> > apple is not adding anything to the a* series.
> 
> You can beleive what you want. But Apple would be stupid to develop the
> Mac chips totally separately since the product lines have so much in common.

there's very little in common.

> > fail #1, a 6 core a* chip isn't what's going into a mac.
> > fail #2, a 28 core ryzen isn't what goes into most pcs.
> > fail #3, apple uses hardware acceleration for video rendering.
> 
> MacPro currently configurable from 7 to 28 cores. So making an Axx chip
> with 28 cores is not out of the question IF Apple decides to make a MacPro.

apple silicon cores are not a 1-1 mapping to intel or amd cores.

remember the difference in clock speeds between amd and intel? or intel
and powerpc? 

> The MacPro also supports up to 4 fancy GPUs. How many you configure
> changes the price of your computer. Will apple integrate 4 of its own
> GPUs into the SoC for MacPro and not proce MacPros differently whether
> you need 1 or 4 GPUs ?

not relevant to apple silicon.

> The Apple Afterburner proRes RAW card is a PCI Express card. And onlt
> helps oib you have ProRes sources. And a lot of people work
> Premiuere/After Effects with tenmporary smaller resiolution copies and
> then do final render on the prores sourcse, so that module not really
> used much.

the afterburner card will probably still work with an apple silicon mac
pro, although it might need a firmware update.

> "hardware acceleration" is marketing gobbledeegook. 

pure nonsense.

> Apple,s
> presentation made it clean the chips used on Macs will be similar to the
> ones on iPhone/iPad with integrated Apple GPU.

no they didn't.

in fact, they said exactly the *opposite*.

your reading comprehension is about as good as your typing skills.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133830

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2020-07-28 19:11 -0400
Message-ID<Hg2UG.190882$AN2.53298@fx46.iad>
In reply to#133816
On 2020-07-27 19:16, nospam wrote:

> pay full attention starting at 5:43, where he said it was with an
> existing processor, not what will go into a future apple silicon mac,
> exactly what you've been repeatedly told.

You're missing the point.
-The Axx family is already competitive.
-Intel is stagnat
-Apple has a proven record of being able to scale up the Axx family.

It would be ppain stupid for Apple to start a new chip design from
scratch and have 2 separate development trees when the Axx family can be
scaled up for a lot cheaper.

So they can produce an A14 for iPhone, A14z for iPad pro and some
laptops, and A13m for midrange iMacs, and A13m2 for high end Macs.


The chips for desktops macs woudl have all "high power" cores instead of
having mix of low power and high power ones, and support for Thunderbolt
etc.

If Apple has a total of 3 variants used on Macs, then it can produce
each new variant every 2 years. (whereas iPhone gers an annual upgrade).


> apple silicon cores are not a 1-1 mapping to intel or amd cores.

Based on benchmarks, they are pretty close.  Where there isn't 1-1
mapping is in pure GhZ comparizon, something which the Wintel market has
traditionally used, but us not usable against different achitecture.

>> GPUs into the SoC for MacPro and not proce MacPros differently whether
>> you need 1 or 4 GPUs ?
> 
> not relevant to apple silicon.

Very relevant because with *1* integrated GPU inside the Axx chips, and
with Metal tuned to make use of share memory, Apple may or may not wish
to support external GPUs on the ARM version of MAc going forward. That
is likely a decision they have already made internally but not announced.




> the afterburner card will probably still work with an apple silicon mac
> pro, although it might need a firmware update.

Firmware update of the  Apple SoC won't do anything if that chip doesn't
have the phsyical pins to connect to a PCIe bus.

Thunderbolt speed limits preclude high end video editing if GPUs are
attached bua Thunderbolt. So again, it all depneds on Applke's internal
decision on PCIe,

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133832

Fromsms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
Date2020-07-28 17:47 -0700
Message-ID<rfqgv1$v8d$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#133830
On 7/28/2020 4:11 PM, JF Mezei wrote:

<snip>

> Very relevant because with *1* integrated GPU inside the Axx chips, and
> with Metal tuned to make use of share memory, Apple may or may not wish
> to support external GPUs on the ARM version of MAc going forward. That
> is likely a decision they have already made internally but not announced.

That is the key question. Are they going to do a version of the Axx with 
PCI-E support so they can have multiple Radeon GPUs and so they can 
support the Afterburner card?

Considering that the Mac Pro is very low-volume product it would seem 
unlikely from a purely financial point of view, but they may not want to 
abandon the Mac Pro users and they certainly have the resources to 
design devices solely for the Mac Pro.

I just saw that Intel pushed out their 7nm manufacturing yet again. AMD 
is doing much better than Intel now in terms of manufacturing and now 
Intel is fighting with AMD for 7nm capacity at TSMC.

A few years ago it would have been inconceivable for Intel to have 
fallen so far behind in manufacturing capability. This while thing is 
reminiscent of why Apple moved from PowerPC to Intel, performance per 
watt matters tremendously in mobile devices.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133834

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2020-07-29 01:43 +0000
Message-ID<slrnri1l2j.1n1n.g.kreme@ProMini.lan>
In reply to#133832
In message <rfqgv1$v8d$1@dont-email.me> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> I just saw that Intel pushed out their 7nm manufacturing yet again. AMD 
> is doing much better than Intel now in terms of manufacturing and now 
> Intel is fighting with AMD for 7nm capacity at TSMC.

Intel is barely on 10nm and is still mostly producing 14nm dies.

-- 
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so, Brain! You draw the bath and I'll fetch the
	alka-seltzers and candles!"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133837

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2020-07-28 21:54 -0400
Message-ID<280720202154040877%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#133832
In article <rfqgv1$v8d$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> > Very relevant because with *1* integrated GPU inside the Axx chips, and
> > with Metal tuned to make use of share memory, Apple may or may not wish
> > to support external GPUs on the ARM version of MAc going forward. That
> > is likely a decision they have already made internally but not announced.
> 
> That is the key question. 

no, it isn't.

the key question is how much will apple silicon outperform intel.

> Are they going to do a version of the Axx with 
> PCI-E support so they can have multiple Radeon GPUs and so they can 
> support the Afterburner card?

no. they are not doing a version of a* with pci-e support.

> Considering that the Mac Pro is very low-volume product it would seem 
> unlikely from a purely financial point of view, but they may not want to 
> abandon the Mac Pro users and they certainly have the resources to 
> design devices solely for the Mac Pro.

it might be low volume now, but doesn't mean that will always be the
case.

> I just saw that Intel pushed out their 7nm manufacturing yet again. AMD 
> is doing much better than Intel now in terms of manufacturing and now 
> Intel is fighting with AMD for 7nm capacity at TSMC.

intel will soon be history. too many fuckups.

> A few years ago it would have been inconceivable for Intel to have 
> fallen so far behind in manufacturing capability.

intel has been falling behind for *much* longer than that, which has
negatively impacted apple and other companies.

> This while thing is 
> reminiscent of why Apple moved from PowerPC to Intel, performance per 
> watt matters tremendously in mobile devices.

that matters in all devices.

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