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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #119404 > unrolled thread

Re: APFS on HDD

Started byrs99tl@gmail.com
First post2018-11-09 17:32 -0800
Last post2018-11-11 13:04 -0500
Articles 3 on this page of 83 — 14 participants

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  Re: APFS on HDD rs99tl@gmail.com - 2018-11-09 17:32 -0800
    Re: APFS on HDD Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-11-10 14:42 +1300
      Re: APFS on HDD RSORLANDO <rs99tl@gmail.com> - 2018-11-09 18:15 -0800
      Re: APFS on HDD Elden <usenet@moondog.org> - 2018-11-09 21:27 -0800
        Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-10 18:52 +1300
          Re: APFS on HDD J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-10 09:11 -0500
            Re: APFS on HDD Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-11-11 10:08 +1300
              Re: APFS on HDD J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-10 17:41 -0500
                Re: APFS on HDD nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-11-10 19:18 -0500
                Re: APFS on HDD Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-11-11 18:03 +1300
                  Re: APFS on HDD J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-11 13:21 -0500
                    Re: APFS on HDD Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-11-12 03:09 +0000
                      Re: APFS on HDD J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-12 02:10 -0500
                        Re: APFS on HDD Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-11-12 12:32 +0000
                        Re: APFS on HDD Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-11-13 08:14 +1300
                          Re: APFS on HDD J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-12 20:29 -0500
                            Re: APFS on HDD Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-11-13 18:15 +1300
                              Re: APFS on HDD J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-13 09:20 -0500
                      Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-12 02:30 -0500
                        Re: APFS on HDD Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-11-12 12:45 +0000
                          Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-12 18:31 -0500
                            Re: APFS on HDD Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-11-13 00:04 +0000
                            Re: APFS on HDD Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-11-13 13:46 +1300
            Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-11 15:55 +1300
              Re: APFS on HDD J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-10 23:38 -0500
              Re: APFS on HDD Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-11-11 07:18 +0000
                Re: APFS on HDD J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-11 12:39 -0500
                  Re: APFS on HDD Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-11-12 09:10 +1300
                    Re: APFS on HDD J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-11 19:26 -0500
                      Re: APFS on HDD Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-11-12 16:20 +1300
                        Re: APFS on HDD J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-12 01:46 -0500
              Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-14 02:05 +1300
          Re: APFS on HDD Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-11-11 07:13 +0000
            Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-12 02:10 -0500
          Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-12 02:02 -0500
            Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-12 21:57 +1300
              Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-12 18:26 -0500
                Re: APFS on HDD Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2018-11-13 01:12 +0000
                  Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-12 23:44 -0500
                    Re: APFS on HDD Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2018-11-13 18:17 +0000
                Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-13 19:38 +1300
                  Re: APFS on HDD Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-11-13 10:21 +0000
                  Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-13 05:55 -0500
                    Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-14 01:28 +1300
                    Re: APFS on HDD Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-11-13 13:40 +0000
                      Re: APFS on HDD Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2018-11-13 18:18 +0000
                  Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-13 05:57 -0500
                    Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-14 01:28 +1300
                      Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-13 13:27 -0500
                        Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-14 13:31 +1300
                          Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-14 15:33 -0500
                            Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-15 12:04 +1300
                              Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-15 00:35 -0500
                                Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-15 22:24 +1300
                                  Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-15 12:39 -0500
                                    Re: APFS on HDD Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2018-11-16 13:45 -0500
                                      Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-16 20:13 -0500
                                        Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-18 18:37 +1300
                                          Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-18 17:40 -0500
                                            Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-19 13:42 +1300
                                            Re: APFS on HDD Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-11-19 02:08 +0000
                                              Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-19 15:52 +1300
                                                Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-18 22:31 -0500
                                                  Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-20 13:23 +1300
                                                    Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-19 23:32 -0500
                                                      Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-20 22:05 +1300
                                                        Re: APFS on HDD "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2018-11-20 09:36 +0000
                                                          Re: APFS on HDD André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2018-11-20 06:12 -0700
                                                            Re: APFS on HDD "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2018-11-20 14:28 +0000
                                                              Re: APFS on HDD nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-11-20 09:36 -0500
                                                          Re: APFS on HDD nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-11-20 08:57 -0500
                                                            Re: APFS on HDD "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2018-11-20 14:34 +0000
                                                              Re: APFS on HDD nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-11-20 09:36 -0500
                                                Re: APFS on HDD Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-11-19 05:46 +0000
                                                  Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-19 02:27 -0500
                                                    Re: APFS on HDD Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2018-11-19 11:42 -0500
                                                  Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-20 13:23 +1300
                                                    Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-19 21:57 -0500
                                                      Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-20 16:28 +1300
                                                        Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-21 13:24 -0500
                                            Re: APFS on HDD Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2018-11-19 11:34 -0500
                    Re: APFS on HDD Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-11-13 13:41 +0000
    Re: APFS on HDD Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2018-11-11 13:04 -0500

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#119587

FromStephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid>
Date2018-11-19 11:34 -0500
Message-ID<psuolt$ov3$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#119579
On 2018-11-18 22:40:33 +0000, JF Mezei said:

> ...APFS basically placed the boot information (block location, number 
> of blocks to load etc) in block 0 of the GPT partition where the EFI 
> firmware would look to see if the GPT partition was bootable.

The boot block is a protective MBR, and the rest of the GPT "show" is 
the GPT structures, and the MBR/GPT covers a range of blocks at the 
lowest-numbered addresses, and the GPT another range of blocks at the 
upper-addressed end of the device.

The latter upper-address-range-usage does get one operating system and 
its support of dynamic volume expansion in trouble, but that's fodder 
for another discussion.

Older disks and SSDs use 512-byte sectors, optical media is 2048-byte 
sectors and some permit 512-byte, and newer storage is 4096-byte 
sectors with some having an option to allow 512-byte addressing.  GPT 
uses sector offsets and the the native sector size for the storage 
device, which means that the boot records within GPT referencing an EFI 
bootstrap are sector-size-sensitive. Cloning across media means 
recalculating some offsets and rewriting the GPT.

> So from an EFI point of view, it could only see one bootable volume in 
> the GPT partition that containes the APFS container which may contain 
> multiple bootable APFS volumes)

I've not looked at the available APFS documentation in any detail, nor 
looked at the macOS internal book's app source code.

GPTs can be nested, with GPT and other sub-partitioning schemes 
possible.  So too can (non-protectively-partitioned) MBR, for that 
matter.

The papers from disk forensics folks are another resource for those 
interested in this level of detail, GPT, APFS, HFS+ or otherwise.

If y'all are interested in the GPT, start here:  
https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/technotes/tn2166/_index.html


-- 
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC 

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#119525

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2018-11-13 13:41 +0000
Message-ID<slrnpull53.2r4t.g.kreme@Snow.local>
In reply to#119520
In message <x6yGD.202490$TK1.84613@fx19.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2018-11-13 01:38, David Empson wrote:

>>> Or it it made is some hidden APFS partition/volume?
>> 
>> That wouldn't work. Snapshots must be on the volume they belong to.

> I thought that snapshots could exist in the same APFS container as
> separate volumes.

You've been corrected on this in the past, but you refuse to correct
your mistaken thoughts.

> if you need to create something inside the source volume you are doing
> a snapshot of, then it no longer is a snapshot.

As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about.

-- 
If you [Carrot] were dice, you'd always roll sixes. And the dice don't
roll themselves. If it wasn't against everything he wanted to be true
about the world, Vimes might just then have believed in destiny
controlling people. And gods help the other people who were around when
a big destiny was alive in the world, bending every poor bugger around
itself...

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#119466

FromAlan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
Date2018-11-11 13:04 -0500
Message-ID<j-ednZdAfran8nXGnZ2dnUU7-LednZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#119404
On 2018-11-09 20:32, rs99tl@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, October 1, 2017 at 12:33:28 PM UTC-4, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2017-10-01 11:58, Király wrote:
>>> I know that APFS is designed for SSDs, but it can be used on HDDs too.
>>> Is anyone running APFS on their HDD boot drive? I'm trying to decide if
>>> I should convert my 2009 iMac's HDD to APFS but I'm not sure if there
>>> are any net advantages. Online reviews are mixed. Thanks.
>>
>> It's not available for HD or even Fusion drives.  No guarantee that it
>> will be.
>>
>> https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT208018
> 
> The local Apple Store here in Altamonte Springs, Florida just did a clean install of Mohave 10.14.2 on my iMac 10.13.6 High Sierra with a 2Tb Fusion Drive (HDD). The hardware report confirms that the two SSD cards and the main 2Tb Fusion HDD was indeed formatted as an APFS drive. I bought this iMac spec'd up to near "Pro" level with an I7 4.2 Ghz processor and specifically stated this particular iMac was compatible with HSF/APFS formating. Awesome, fast machine...

You do realize that you're replying to a thread that is over 1 year old?

-- 
"2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants.  Proof that we
  need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
                                           - unknown protester

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