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What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine

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  What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-10 11:14 -0400
    Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-04-10 12:09 -0400
    Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2015-04-10 12:09 -0400
      Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-10 12:23 -0400
        Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2015-04-10 13:00 -0400
    Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-10 12:23 -0400
    Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine Alan Baker <email@domain.com> - 2015-04-10 09:47 -0700
      Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2015-04-11 02:38 +0100
        Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2015-04-10 22:06 -0400
          Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2015-04-13 00:40 +0100
        Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-11 11:45 +0000
          Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2015-04-12 03:20 +0000
            Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-12 05:00 +0000
              Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2015-04-12 15:14 +0000
                Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-12 16:00 +0000
                  Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2015-04-12 16:19 +0000
                    Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2015-04-13 00:43 +0100
                    Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-13 13:56 +0000
                      Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2015-04-13 10:10 -0400
                        Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-13 21:33 +0000
                          Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine Király <ggrandish@gmail.com> - 2015-04-13 15:18 -0700
                            Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2015-04-13 21:40 -0400
                              Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine Alan Baker <email@domain.com> - 2015-04-13 18:49 -0700
                                Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2015-04-14 01:56 +0000
                                  Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine Alan Baker <email@domain.com> - 2015-04-14 00:31 -0700
                              Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-14 02:43 +0000
                                Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2015-04-14 02:02 -0400
                                  Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2015-04-14 06:19 +0000
                            Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-14 02:42 +0000
                              Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2015-04-14 05:28 +0000
                          Re: What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-04-19 16:55 +1200

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#73001 — What happens if I interrupt Cleaning Up part of time machine

Storms coming through yesterday and I wanted to turn off the computer 
and disconnect it from the electricity in case of lightening strike. I 
was getting ready to shut it down and I saw that TM said it was cleaning 
up. Anything untoward happens if I interupt that part of the back up?
-- 
³Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
     but what they conceal is vital.²
                       ‹ Aaron Levenstein

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#73009

On 2015-04-10 11:14, Kurt Ullman wrote:
> Storms coming through yesterday and I wanted to turn off the computer
> and disconnect it from the electricity in case of lightening strike. I
> was getting ready to shut it down and I saw that TM said it was cleaning
> up. Anything untoward happens if I interupt that part of the back up?

No UPS?

You can interrupt TM at any time for any reason.

It will sort it out on the next backup.

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#73010

On 4/10/15, 11:14 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
> Storms coming through yesterday and I wanted to turn off the computer
> and disconnect it from the electricity in case of lightening strike. I
> was getting ready to shut it down and I saw that TM said it was cleaning
> up. Anything untoward happens if I interupt that part of the back up?
>
Here's some secondhand information.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1694649

I haven't seem TM cleaning up and haven't seen a "Skip Cleaning Up" button.

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#73012

In article <mg8shg$ho7$1@dont-email.me>, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> 
wrote:

> On 4/10/15, 11:14 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
> > Storms coming through yesterday and I wanted to turn off the computer
> > and disconnect it from the electricity in case of lightening strike. I
> > was getting ready to shut it down and I saw that TM said it was cleaning
> > up. Anything untoward happens if I interupt that part of the back up?
> >
> Here's some secondhand information.
> http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1694649
> 
> I haven't seem TM cleaning up and haven't seen a "Skip Cleaning Up" button.

 Thanks. Doesn't really answer my question, but thanks for the attempt
-- 
³Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
     but what they conceal is vital.²
                       ‹ Aaron Levenstein

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#73014

On 4/10/15, 12:23 PM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
> In article <mg8shg$ho7$1@dont-email.me>, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 4/10/15, 11:14 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
>>> Storms coming through yesterday and I wanted to turn off the computer
>>> and disconnect it from the electricity in case of lightening strike. I
>>> was getting ready to shut it down and I saw that TM said it was cleaning
>>> up. Anything untoward happens if I interupt that part of the back up?
>>>
>> Here's some secondhand information.
>> http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1694649
>>
>> I haven't seem TM cleaning up and haven't seen a "Skip Cleaning Up" button.
>
>   Thanks. Doesn't really answer my question, but thanks for the attempt
>
I've seen "Skip this Backup" on the menu.  I'll bet if I caught it 
during cleanup, it would say "Skip Cleaning Up." Did you see it on the 
menu? Apparently it would do no harm to click it.

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#73011

In article <rrCdnZTA6dFxdbrInZ2dnUU7-dGdnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Kurt
Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Storms coming through yesterday and I wanted to turn off the computer 
> and disconnect it from the electricity in case of lightening strike. I 
> was getting ready to shut it down and I saw that TM said it was cleaning 
> up. Anything untoward happens if I interupt that part of the back up?

in theory nothing because it should pick up where it left off. in
reality, it does not always work that way.

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#73013

On 2015-04-10 15:14:52 +0000, Kurt Ullman said:

> Storms coming through yesterday and I wanted to turn off the computer
> and disconnect it from the electricity in case of lightening strike. I
> was getting ready to shut it down and I saw that TM said it was cleaning
> up. Anything untoward happens if I interupt that part of the back up?

Time Machine only keeps:

Hourly data for the preceding 24 hours.

Daily data for the last month

Weekly data for all previous months.

So with each backup, it needs to remove some files.

If you interrupt the "Cleaning up" stage, that won't happen until the 
next time it backs up.

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#73040

On Fri, 10 Apr 2015 09:47:47 -0700, Alan Baker <email@domain.com>
wrote:

>On 2015-04-10 15:14:52 +0000, Kurt Ullman said:
>
>> Storms coming through yesterday and I wanted to turn off the computer
>> and disconnect it from the electricity in case of lightening strike. I
>> was getting ready to shut it down and I saw that TM said it was cleaning
>> up. Anything untoward happens if I interupt that part of the back up?
>
>Time Machine only keeps:
>
>Hourly data for the preceding 24 hours.
>
>Daily data for the last month
>
>Weekly data for all previous months.
>
>So with each backup, it needs to remove some files.

 Is it possible to tell it to fuck off because I have more disk space
than I know what to do with and I'd rather keep *everything* than risk
losing that one, single file that I just *know* I'll need in ten years
time? 
 Or is tidying up part of the functionality and unkillable?
                                                            J.   

>
>If you interrupt the "Cleaning up" stage, that won't happen until the 
>next time it backs up.

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#73042

In article <0lugiahj8gfo6k781le9cltr33o8fr71o5@4ax.com>,
 John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Apr 2015 09:47:47 -0700, Alan Baker <email@domain.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >On 2015-04-10 15:14:52 +0000, Kurt Ullman said:
> >
> >> Storms coming through yesterday and I wanted to turn off the computer
> >> and disconnect it from the electricity in case of lightening strike. I
> >> was getting ready to shut it down and I saw that TM said it was cleaning
> >> up. Anything untoward happens if I interupt that part of the back up?
> >
> >Time Machine only keeps:
> >
> >Hourly data for the preceding 24 hours.
> >
> >Daily data for the last month
> >
> >Weekly data for all previous months.
> >
> >So with each backup, it needs to remove some files.
> 
>  Is it possible to tell it to fuck off because I have more disk space
> than I know what to do with and I'd rather keep *everything* than risk
> losing that one, single file that I just *know* I'll need in ten years
> time? 
>  Or is tidying up part of the functionality and unkillable?

I think it's hard-coded.

So you're saying that you might have a file that was deleted less than a 
week after it was created, but 10 years later you'll need to recover it?

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

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#73183

On Fri, 10 Apr 2015 22:06:12 -0400, Barry Margolin
<barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

>In article <0lugiahj8gfo6k781le9cltr33o8fr71o5@4ax.com>,
> John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 10 Apr 2015 09:47:47 -0700, Alan Baker <email@domain.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >On 2015-04-10 15:14:52 +0000, Kurt Ullman said:
>> >
>> >> Storms coming through yesterday and I wanted to turn off the computer
>> >> and disconnect it from the electricity in case of lightening strike. I
>> >> was getting ready to shut it down and I saw that TM said it was cleaning
>> >> up. Anything untoward happens if I interupt that part of the back up?
>> >
>> >Time Machine only keeps:
>> >
>> >Hourly data for the preceding 24 hours.
>> >
>> >Daily data for the last month
>> >
>> >Weekly data for all previous months.
>> >
>> >So with each backup, it needs to remove some files.
>> 
>>  Is it possible to tell it to fuck off because I have more disk space
>> than I know what to do with and I'd rather keep *everything* than risk
>> losing that one, single file that I just *know* I'll need in ten years
>> time? 
>>  Or is tidying up part of the functionality and unkillable?
>
>I think it's hard-coded.

 Thought it might be. 
 Such is life. Thanks. 

>
>So you're saying that you might have a file that was deleted less than a 
>week after it was created, but 10 years later you'll need to recover it?

 Why not? If I can dream up the scenario then it will happen
somewhere, at sometime to somebody, and if it's really bizarre then
that will most likely be me.
                               J. 
 

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#73059

In message <0lugiahj8gfo6k781le9cltr33o8fr71o5@4ax.com> 
  John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>  Is it possible to tell it to fuck off because I have more disk space
> than I know what to do with and I'd rather keep *everything* than risk
> losing that one, single file that I just *know* I'll need in ten years
> time? 

No. And you are not understanding how Time Machine works.

The only way to "lose" a file is to

 1) No longer have the file on your computer
 2) have the file have been off your computer for so long that the
 oldest backup doesn't contain it.

So, if I have the files foobar.txt and I deleted it 01 Feb 2012 it will
be in Time Machine as long as there is a backup older than 01 Feb 2012.

-- 
Once upon a time, a woman was picking up firewood. She came upon a
poisonous snake frozen in the snow. She took the snake home and nurse it
back to health. One day the snake bit her on the cheek. As she lay
dying, she asked the snake, "Why have you done this to me?" And the
snake answered, "Look, bitch, you knew I was a snake."

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#73155

Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> The only way to "lose" a file is to
> 
>  1) No longer have the file on your computer
>  2) have the file have been off your computer for so long that the
>  oldest backup doesn't contain it.
> 
> So, if I have the files foobar.txt and I deleted it 01 Feb 2012 it will
> be in Time Machine as long as there is a backup older than 01 Feb 2012.
 
There's also the issue of having a file on your Mac for less than a 
week; for example, a file that existed between April 10 and 15. That 
file will remain in Time Machine until May 15. But if Time Machine only 
retains April 9 and April 16 as the weekly backups, after May 15 the 
file is gone for good.

Keep files for more than a week in the same location, in order for Time 
Machine to retain copies of them (subject to your points 1 and 2 above.)

-- 
K.

Lang may your lum reek.

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#73160

In message <mgco91$qlp$1@dont-email.me> 
  Király <me@home.spamsucks.ca> wrote:
> Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> The only way to "lose" a file is to
>> 
>>  1) No longer have the file on your computer
>>  2) have the file have been off your computer for so long that the
>>  oldest backup doesn't contain it.
>> 
>> So, if I have the files foobar.txt and I deleted it 01 Feb 2012 it will
>> be in Time Machine as long as there is a backup older than 01 Feb 2012.
>  
> There's also the issue of having a file on your Mac for less than a 
> week; for example, a file that existed between April 10 and 15. That 
> file will remain in Time Machine until May 15. But if Time Machine only 
> retains April 9 and April 16 as the weekly backups, after May 15 the 
> file is gone for good.

Nope.

-- 
This is to say: while it was true that they had just appeared in this
particular set of dimensions, it was also true that they had been living
in them all along. It is at this point that normal language gives up,
and goes and has a drink. --Colour of Magic

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#73171

Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> > There's also the issue of having a file on your Mac for less than a 
> > week; for example, a file that existed between April 10 and 15. That 
> > file will remain in Time Machine until May 15. But if Time Machine only 
> > retains April 9 and April 16 as the weekly backups, after May 15 the 
> > file is gone for good.
> 
> Nope.

LOL, are you serious?

-- 
K.

Lang may your lum reek.

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#73176

In message <mge251$52g$1@dont-email.me> 
  Király <me@home.spamsucks.ca> wrote:
> Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> > There's also the issue of having a file on your Mac for less than a 
>> > week; for example, a file that existed between April 10 and 15. That 
>> > file will remain in Time Machine until May 15. But if Time Machine only 
>> > retains April 9 and April 16 as the weekly backups, after May 15 the 
>> > file is gone for good.
>> 
>> Nope.

> LOL, are you serious?

Yep.

Try it if you don't believe me. The ONLY way to have a file not get
stored in TM long term is if it never gets into time machine in the
first place (that is, it exists for less than an hour).

1. Create a file. 
2. Run Time Machine manually.
3. Delete the file after TM completes
4. repeat every day for a week.
5. Wait 32 days.

All seven files will still be in Time Machine.

-- 
Major Strasser has been shot. Round up the usual suspects.

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#73179

Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> 1. Create a file. 
> 2. Run Time Machine manually.
> 3. Delete the file after TM completes
> 4. repeat every day for a week.
> 5. Wait 32 days.
> 
> All seven files will still be in Time Machine.

You are simply wrong about that, Lewis. Only the file that was in the 
hourly TM backup that was retained as the daily would have been saved 
(usually the first backup of the day.) And if you were lucky enough to 
have had the above files retained in your daily backup every day, only 
the daily backup retained as the weekly would have been saved. So at 
best, you have only one of the above seven files after 32 days. More 
likely, you have none of them.

Time Machine backups are snapshots of your system made at that time. If 
you have a TM backup made two months ago, e.g. Feb 1, 8:00am, it is an 
exact copy of what was on your system at that time. It doesn't contain 
any files that weren't on your system at that time. If you had a file on 
your Mac only on Jan 31 or only on Feb 2, it is gone. 

-- 
K.

Lang may your lum reek.

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#73184

On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:19:34 +0000 (UTC), me@home.spamsucks.ca
(Király) wrote:

>Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> 1. Create a file. 
>> 2. Run Time Machine manually.
>> 3. Delete the file after TM completes
>> 4. repeat every day for a week.
>> 5. Wait 32 days.
>> 
>> All seven files will still be in Time Machine.
>
>You are simply wrong about that, Lewis. Only the file that was in the 
>hourly TM backup that was retained as the daily would have been saved 
>(usually the first backup of the day.) And if you were lucky enough to 
>have had the above files retained in your daily backup every day, only 
>the daily backup retained as the weekly would have been saved. So at 
>best, you have only one of the above seven files after 32 days. More 
>likely, you have none of them.
>
>Time Machine backups are snapshots of your system made at that time. If 
>you have a TM backup made two months ago, e.g. Feb 1, 8:00am, it is an 
>exact copy of what was on your system at that time. It doesn't contain 
>any files that weren't on your system at that time. If you had a file on 
>your Mac only on Jan 31 or only on Feb 2, it is gone. 

 I think I'm sorry I asked.
 :)
 Thanks people. Now, I'm *really* not sure.
 Fortunately, I tend to keep everything so it doesn't matter. 
                                                            J. 

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#73192

In message <mge5um$i1c$1@dont-email.me> 
  Király <me@home.spamsucks.ca> wrote:
> Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> 1. Create a file. 
>> 2. Run Time Machine manually.
>> 3. Delete the file after TM completes
>> 4. repeat every day for a week.
>> 5. Wait 32 days.
>> 
>> All seven files will still be in Time Machine.

> You are simply wrong about that, Lewis.

That is how it worked when I tested it back in... oh, 2009.

> Only the file that was in the 
> hourly TM backup that was retained as the daily would have been saved 

No, because EVERY snapshot is a full backup.

> (usually the first backup of the day.) And if you were lucky enough to 
> have had the above files retained in your daily backup every day, only 
> the daily backup retained as the weekly would have been saved. So at 
> best, you have only one of the above seven files after 32 days. More 
> likely, you have none of them.

Feel free to test it.

-- 
Bishops move diagonally. That's why they often turn up where the kings
don't expect them to be.

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#73193

In article <slrnminipn.g0.g.kreme@amelia.local>,
 Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> In message <mge5um$i1c$1@dont-email.me> 
>   Király <me@home.spamsucks.ca> wrote:
> > Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> >> 1. Create a file. 
> >> 2. Run Time Machine manually.
> >> 3. Delete the file after TM completes
> >> 4. repeat every day for a week.
> >> 5. Wait 32 days.
> >> 
> >> All seven files will still be in Time Machine.
> 
> > You are simply wrong about that, Lewis.
> 
> That is how it worked when I tested it back in... oh, 2009.
> 
> > Only the file that was in the 
> > hourly TM backup that was retained as the daily would have been saved 
> 
> No, because EVERY snapshot is a full backup.

True. But it's a full backup of what exists at the time of the backup. 
It doesn't include files that were in the previous backup, but have 
since been deleted.

And when it thins old backups, it doesn't merge in all the deleted files.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

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#73210

In message <barmar-31DF87.10105513042015@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu> 
  Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> In article <slrnminipn.g0.g.kreme@amelia.local>,
>  Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

>> In message <mge5um$i1c$1@dont-email.me> 
>>   Király <me@home.spamsucks.ca> wrote:
>> > Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> >> 1. Create a file. 
>> >> 2. Run Time Machine manually.
>> >> 3. Delete the file after TM completes
>> >> 4. repeat every day for a week.
>> >> 5. Wait 32 days.
>> >> 
>> >> All seven files will still be in Time Machine.
>> 
>> > You are simply wrong about that, Lewis.
>> 
>> That is how it worked when I tested it back in... oh, 2009.
>> 
>> > Only the file that was in the 
>> > hourly TM backup that was retained as the daily would have been saved 
>> 
>> No, because EVERY snapshot is a full backup.

> True. But it's a full backup of what exists at the time of the backup. 

No, because of the way Time Machine does backups (hard links) Each
backup starts with the entirety of the previous backup, then the files
that are different/changed get added.

> It doesn't include files that were in the previous backup, but have 
> since been deleted.

Feel free to test it. As I said, I did test this specific test several
years ago. Maybe I did it wrong?

If you CHANGE a file, then the changes for that file will eventually
decay to only keeping weekly snapshots of the changes.

-- 
"Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently
programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest." - Isaac
Asimov

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