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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #132983 > unrolled thread

Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs

Started byJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
First post2020-06-27 16:49 -0400
Last post2020-07-04 20:31 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 519 — 32 participants

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Contents

  Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-27 16:49 -0400
    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-27 17:07 -0400
      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-06-27 22:33 +0000
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-28 02:45 +0000
    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-06-27 17:19 -0400
      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-27 17:48 -0400
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-06-27 17:53 -0400
          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-06-27 22:35 +0000
            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-01 15:09 +0000
              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-01 11:02 -0700
    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-06-27 18:02 -0400
      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-06-27 22:36 +0000
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-06-28 06:22 -0400
          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-06-28 16:26 +0000
            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-03 03:51 +0000
              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-02 20:58 -0700
              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-03 02:31 -0400
                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-03 11:19 +0000
                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-03 08:29 -0400
                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-04 04:06 +0000
                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-03 21:13 -0700
                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2020-07-04 01:56 -0400
                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-04 00:02 -0700
                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2020-07-04 03:49 -0400
                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-04 01:13 -0700
                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-04 12:50 +0000
                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-04 16:24 +0000
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-04 09:41 -0700
                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2020-07-04 14:01 -0400
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-04 14:07 -0400
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-04 18:35 +0000
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-07-04 15:16 -0400
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-04 17:08 -0400
                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-04 07:23 -0700
                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-04 11:03 -0400
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-04 16:08 +0000
                                  Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-04 09:16 -0700
                                    Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2020-07-04 15:19 -0400
                                      Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-04 19:36 +0000
                                        Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-07-04 21:07 +0000
                                        Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-04 14:11 -0700
                                          Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-05 03:18 +0000
                                            Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-05 04:02 +0000
                                              Arlen is utterly unmoved by facts Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-04 21:48 -0700
                                      Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-04 15:47 -0400
                                      Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-04 14:07 -0700
                                        Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-04 17:12 -0400
                                          Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-04 14:15 -0700
                                            Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-04 17:22 -0400
                                              Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> - 2020-07-04 16:25 -0500
                                              Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-04 14:41 -0700
                                              Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-04 21:45 +0000
                                                Arlen makes yet another explicit claim... (wasRe: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs You know who! <no@body.net> - 2020-07-04 14:49 -0700
                                            Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-05 03:14 +0000
                                      Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-09 18:34 -0700
                                        Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-09 21:52 -0400
                                          Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-10 02:56 +0000
                                            Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-09 20:38 -0700
                                              Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-11 15:24 +1200
                                                Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-10 23:35 -0400
                                                  Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-11 04:24 +0000
                                                    Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-11 04:36 +0000
                                                    Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-11 10:40 -0700
                                                  Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-12 12:55 +1200
                                                    Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-12 01:10 +0000
                                                    Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-11 22:36 -0400
                                                      Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-12 04:17 +0000
                                                        Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-13 16:16 +1200
                                                          Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-13 05:43 +0000
                                                            Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-13 21:55 +1200
                                                              Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs delvon daily <delvondaily@example.com> - 2020-07-13 14:37 -0700
                                                                OT: Why must Arlen nymshift? (was Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-13 15:13 -0700
                                                                Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-14 16:07 +1200
                                                                  Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-14 01:22 -0400
                                                                    Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-14 21:12 +1200
                                                                      Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-14 19:27 -0400
                                                                        Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-15 11:59 +1200
                                                                          Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-14 22:54 -0400
                                                                            Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-16 16:37 +1200
                                                                              Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-16 18:10 -0400
                                                                                Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-17 13:29 +1200
                                                                                  Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-16 21:45 -0400
                                                                                    Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-18 22:14 +1200
                                                                                      Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-18 11:50 -0400
                                                                                        Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-19 16:07 +1200
                                                                                          Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-19 08:17 -0400
                                                                                            Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2020-07-19 14:34 +0200
                                                                                            Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-20 16:49 +1200
                                                                                              Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-21 11:31 -0400
                                                                                                Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-22 12:47 +1200
                                                                                                  Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-21 21:02 -0400
                                                                                  Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-17 06:41 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-18 22:15 +1200
                                                                                      Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-18 11:50 -0400
                                                                                        Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-19 16:11 +1200
                                                                                          Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-19 08:17 -0400
                                                                                            Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-20 16:51 +1200
                                                                                              Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-21 11:31 -0400
                                                                  Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-18 07:18 -0700
                                                                    Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-18 11:50 -0400
                                                                      Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2020-07-18 21:47 +0200
                                                Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-11 04:51 +0000
                                                  Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs John Michael <tonymayo43@gmail.com> - 2020-07-11 01:30 -0400
                                                    Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-11 05:55 +0000
                                                      Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-11 05:59 +0000
                                                    Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-14 10:11 +0000
                                                    Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-15 17:14 +0000
                                              Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: xxxxx is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-18 08:37 -0700
                                                Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: xxxxx is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-18 18:31 +0000
                                                  Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: xxxxx is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-18 21:01 +0000
                                                Re: Apple profits vs Qualcomm profits (was Re: xxxxx is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-18 20:54 +0000
                                        Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-10 15:21 +1200
                                          Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-09 20:30 -0700
                                            Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-09 23:36 -0400
                                              Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-09 20:42 -0700
                                            Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-10 15:44 +1200
                                              Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-10 04:18 +0000
                                                Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs For a friend <notyou@yes.yes> - 2020-07-09 21:35 -0700
                                                  Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2020-07-10 01:04 -0400
                                                    Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-09 22:06 -0700
                                                      Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2020-07-10 01:27 -0400
                                                        Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-09 23:13 -0700
                                                        Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-10 14:20 +0000
                                                          Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-10 10:09 -0700
                                                            Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-11 15:18 +1200
                                                              Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-11 05:00 +0000
                                                              Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-10 22:34 -0700
                                                                Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2020-07-12 12:54 +1200
                                                                Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-12 04:22 +0000
                                                                  Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-12 06:07 +0000
                                                    Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-10 18:47 +1200
                                                      Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-10 14:27 +0000
                                                    Re: Arlen is a liar. Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-10 14:13 +0000
                                          Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-09 23:36 -0400
                                    Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-05 10:09 +1200
                                      Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-04 15:10 -0700
                                      Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-04 23:29 +0000
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-04 16:56 -0400
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-04 21:36 +0000
                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-05 10:06 +1200
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-04 23:23 +0000
                                  How is it that Arlen can be this thick? Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs He really has no clue <none@all.com> - 2020-07-04 16:52 -0700
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Kees Nuyt <k.nuyt@nospam.demon.nl> - 2020-07-05 03:25 +0200
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-05 03:08 +0000
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-04 20:27 -0700
                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-04 17:21 +0000
                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-04 16:59 -0400
                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-04 17:12 -0400
                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-04 23:57 +0000
                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2020-07-05 21:15 +0100
                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-05 00:14 +0000
                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-04 16:40 -0400
                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-04 17:12 -0400
                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-05 03:22 +0000
                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-12 10:51 -0700
                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-12 14:47 -0400
                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-12 12:21 -0700
                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-12 15:32 -0400
                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-12 12:53 -0700
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-12 17:20 -0400
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-12 15:14 -0700
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-12 18:26 -0400
                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-12 14:12 -0700
                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-12 17:20 -0400
                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-07-19 11:11 -0400
                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-21 12:48 -0700
                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-21 16:12 -0400
                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-13 09:11 +1200
                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-12 19:56 -0400
                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-12 20:08 -0400
                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-13 01:26 -0400
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-13 07:20 -0400
                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-13 08:06 -0700
                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-13 11:30 -0400
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-13 17:07 -0400
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2020-07-13 23:22 +0200
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-07-13 21:45 +0000
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-13 17:55 -0400
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-13 18:36 -0400
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-13 18:58 -0400
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2020-07-14 15:30 -0400
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-14 21:52 -0400
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2020-07-15 15:26 -0400
                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-15 15:49 -0400
                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2020-07-20 12:20 -0400
                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-20 20:09 +0000
                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-20 16:53 -0400
                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-21 10:39 -0700
                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-21 14:45 -0400
                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-21 16:24 -0400
                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-21 16:44 -0400
                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-21 15:13 -0700
                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-21 18:38 -0400
                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-21 22:53 +0000
                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-22 08:28 +1200
                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-22 08:42 +1200
                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-21 15:20 -0700
                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-21 18:38 -0400
                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-22 11:17 +1200
                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-21 19:14 -0400
                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-21 19:18 -0400
                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-21 17:02 -0700
                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-21 20:09 -0400
                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-22 23:59 -0400
                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-23 00:10 -0400
                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-23 04:59 -0400
                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-23 13:56 +0000
                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-23 19:29 -0400
                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-24 04:47 +0000
                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-24 11:40 -0400
                                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-24 11:55 -0400
                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-24 16:21 -0400
                                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-24 19:11 -0400
                                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-24 17:09 +0000
                                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-24 11:50 -0700
                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2020-07-24 20:27 +0000
                                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-24 18:13 -0400
                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-24 16:37 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-24 20:05 -0400
                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-25 01:40 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-24 21:55 -0400
                                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-25 03:43 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-25 00:06 -0400
                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2020-07-25 14:47 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2020-07-25 14:32 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-25 10:51 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-25 14:16 -0400
                                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-25 17:53 -0400
                                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-25 18:36 -0400
                                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-25 18:00 -0700
                                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 02:51 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-25 23:01 -0400
                                                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-25 23:08 -0400
                                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-25 23:16 -0400
                                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 11:07 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-26 14:11 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-26 14:59 -0400
                                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-26 17:00 -0400
                                                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 23:39 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-26 23:34 -0400
                                                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-26 19:48 -0400
                                                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-26 19:19 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 23:32 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-26 19:48 -0400
                                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-26 04:09 -0700
                                                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-26 09:51 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-26 14:30 -0400
                                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 23:53 +0000
                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-24 19:11 -0400
                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-23 10:27 -0400
                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-23 16:29 +0000
                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-23 19:36 -0400
                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-23 20:09 -0400
                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-24 04:56 +0000
                                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-24 12:04 -0400
                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-24 12:35 -0400
                                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-24 16:31 -0400
                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-24 19:11 -0400
                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-24 17:26 +0000
                                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-24 16:58 -0400
                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-24 19:11 -0400
                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-24 16:26 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs joe <none@domain.invalid> - 2020-07-24 20:34 -0500
                                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-25 10:34 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs joe <none@domain.invalid> - 2020-07-25 13:08 -0500
                                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2020-07-25 20:20 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-25 17:51 -0400
                                                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-25 18:36 -0400
                                                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs joe <none@domain.invalid> - 2020-07-25 18:51 -0500
                                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-25 17:59 -0700
                                                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-25 21:24 -0400
                                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-25 21:08 -0400
                                                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-25 21:24 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-25 21:39 -0400
                                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-25 21:50 -0400
                                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 02:49 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 02:42 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 02:38 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 02:35 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-25 20:04 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-25 01:35 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-25 17:44 -0400
                                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 00:07 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-25 21:26 -0400
                                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-25 21:41 -0400
                                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 02:32 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-25 23:04 -0400
                                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-25 23:16 -0400
                                                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-26 13:43 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-26 14:59 -0400
                                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-26 16:54 -0400
                                                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-26 19:49 -0400
                                                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-26 23:49 -0400
                                                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-27 00:09 -0400
                                                                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-27 18:49 -0400
                                                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-27 19:16 -0400
                                                                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-28 19:11 -0400
                                                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-28 17:47 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-29 01:43 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-28 21:54 -0400
                                                                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-29 00:20 -0400
                                                                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-29 01:35 -0400
                                                                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-29 12:03 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-29 15:13 -0400
                                                                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-29 18:48 -0400
                                                                                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-29 17:11 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-29 01:25 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-28 21:54 -0400
                                                                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-29 00:17 -0400
                                                                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-29 01:35 -0400
                                                                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-29 09:44 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-28 00:31 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-27 23:32 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-28 05:33 -0400
                                                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-27 13:33 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-27 18:51 -0400
                                                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-27 19:16 -0400
                                                                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-27 07:40 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-27 00:07 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-25 20:57 -0700
                                                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 11:20 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-26 14:21 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-26 14:59 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 23:49 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-25 18:02 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-26 02:34 +0000
                                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-23 11:25 -0700
                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-23 14:33 -0400
                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-23 20:06 +0000
                                                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-23 16:52 -0400
                                                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2020-07-23 20:12 +0000
                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-22 00:22 +0000
                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-22 21:47 -0400
                                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-07-26 11:50 -0400
                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-26 12:34 -0400
                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-26 14:47 -0400
                                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-27 10:28 +1200
                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-26 19:01 -0700
                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-26 22:19 -0400
                                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-07-27 06:39 -0400
                                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-27 13:30 +0000
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-13 23:08 +0000
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-13 20:26 -0400
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-13 16:41 -0700
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-13 20:26 -0400
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-14 02:17 +0000
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-07-19 11:34 -0400
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-19 12:41 -0400
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-20 03:17 -0700
                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-13 19:29 +0000
                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-14 09:27 +1200
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2020-07-13 23:42 +0200
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-07-13 21:47 +0000
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-14 11:56 +1200
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-14 10:50 -0700
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-14 14:23 -0400
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-15 08:39 +1200
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-14 21:48 -0400
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-14 21:54 -0400
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-14 21:18 -0400
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-14 21:25 -0400
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-14 22:06 -0400
                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-14 22:21 -0400
                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-15 02:30 -0400
                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-15 07:56 -0400
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-15 09:02 +0000
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-15 09:50 -0700
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-15 13:13 -0400
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-15 15:42 -0400
                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-15 15:44 -0400
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-16 08:43 +1200
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-14 11:45 +1200
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-14 10:35 -0700
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-14 14:23 -0400
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-15 08:38 +1200
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-14 21:10 -0400
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-15 08:59 +0000
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-14 11:47 +1200
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2020-07-14 17:42 +0200
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-15 08:33 +1200
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-14 16:37 -0400
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-15 08:55 +0000
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2020-07-15 22:19 +0200
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-16 08:47 +1200
                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2020-07-15 23:10 +0200
                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-16 14:41 +1200
                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2020-07-16 18:44 +0200
                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-16 10:16 -0700
                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-16 14:29 -0400
                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-17 08:34 +1200
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-13 17:55 -0400
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-13 23:19 +0000
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-13 20:26 -0400
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-14 21:30 -0400
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-15 10:05 -0700
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-15 13:13 -0400
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-23 00:06 -0400
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-23 00:10 -0400
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-23 15:34 -0700
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-23 19:06 -0400
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-23 19:42 -0400
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-07-26 11:56 -0400
                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-12 16:58 -0700
                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-12 20:08 -0400
    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-06-27 22:30 +0000
      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-27 19:08 -0400
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-06-27 19:11 -0400
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-06-28 02:19 +0000
          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-28 00:37 -0400
            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-06-28 16:20 +0000
              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-28 12:52 -0400
                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-06-28 21:30 +0000
                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-29 16:45 -0400
                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-06-30 04:21 +0000
                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-01 02:56 +0000
    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-27 22:41 +0000
      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-27 19:16 -0400
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-28 00:26 +0000
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-28 00:30 +0000
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-06-28 02:25 +0000
          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-28 03:05 +0000
      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-28 12:44 -0700
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-06-29 11:51 +1200
          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-06-29 08:29 -0400
            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-06-29 13:00 +0000
              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-06-29 11:10 -0400
                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-29 10:00 -0700
                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-29 17:30 -0400
                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2020-06-29 19:14 +0000
                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-29 21:16 +0000
                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-06-29 19:41 +0000
                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-06-29 15:55 -0400
                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-29 13:53 -0700
                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-29 21:16 +0000
                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-29 14:32 -0700
                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-06-30 04:19 +0000
                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-30 04:31 +0000
                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-07-01 10:06 -0400
                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-01 16:21 +0000
                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-01 16:56 +0000
                            Why does Arlen always lose? Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Not Arlen <whodat@ness.biz> - 2020-07-01 10:40 -0700
                              Re: Why does Arlen always lose? Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs John Doe <always.look@message.header> - 2020-07-02 03:46 +0000
                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-07-01 13:09 -0400
                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-01 10:37 -0700
                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-01 19:13 +0000
                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-07-01 15:40 -0400
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-01 12:45 -0700
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-01 21:27 +0000
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-03 11:47 +0000
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-03 09:11 -0700
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-03 17:21 +0000
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-03 10:29 -0700
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-07-03 15:49 -0400
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-03 13:56 -0700
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-03 20:59 +0000
                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-07-04 10:32 -0400
                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-04 23:43 +0000
                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Andreas Rutishauser <andreas@macandreas.ch> - 2020-07-05 08:59 +0200
                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-05 15:52 +0000
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-04 15:43 -0400
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-04 14:18 -0700
                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-05 17:14 -0400
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-03 16:26 -0400
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-03 16:50 -0400
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-03 21:17 +0000
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-03 13:55 -0700
                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-07-01 15:46 -0400
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-01 12:51 -0700
                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-03 02:25 -0400
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-03 01:11 -0700
                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-03 15:51 -0400
                                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-03 21:12 +0000
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-04 00:31 +0000
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-03 20:54 -0400
                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-04 03:18 +0000
                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-03 23:50 -0400
                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-04 12:40 +0000
                                                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-07-04 10:34 -0400
                                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-04 11:03 -0400
                                                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-05 16:00 +0000
                                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-04 16:19 -0400
                                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-04 20:27 +0000
                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-07-05 16:46 +0000
                                            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-05 17:49 -0400
                                              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-06 02:09 +0000
                                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-03 14:41 +0000
                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-01 10:33 -0700
                          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-01 19:15 +0000
                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-29 21:16 +0000
                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-29 14:27 -0700
            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-29 09:15 -0700
              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-29 16:59 -0400
          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-29 16:53 -0400
            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-30 04:53 +0000
              Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs joe <none@domain.invalid> - 2020-06-30 08:14 -0500
                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2020-06-30 10:51 -0400
                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-30 19:37 +0000
                    OT: Why must Arlen constantly lie? (was Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Just for Arlen <justforarlen@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-30 13:57 -0700
                      Re: OT: Why must Arlen constantly lie? (was Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2020-07-01 16:55 -0400
                Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-30 17:48 +0000
                  Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs joe <none@domain.invalid> - 2020-06-30 13:09 -0500
                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-30 11:25 -0700
                    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-30 19:07 +0000
                      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Especially for Arlen <especiallyforarlen@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-30 13:59 -0700
                        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2020-12-02 04:59 +0000
      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Leonardo Pacheco <lpacheco72@gmail.com> - 2020-07-28 23:58 -0700
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-29 09:47 +0000
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-29 08:38 -0700
    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-30 04:44 +0000
      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-30 04:49 +0000
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-30 05:02 +0000
    Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-01 12:27 -0700
      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-01 15:41 -0400
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-03 02:18 -0400
      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-01 21:32 +0000
      Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-03 02:01 -0400
        Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-03 14:43 +0000
          Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-04 15:36 -0400
            Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-07-04 20:31 +0000

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#133196

FromAlan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no>
Date2020-07-03 21:13 -0700
Message-ID<rdovkr$a0$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#133195
On 2020-07-03 9:06 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> UPDATE:
> 
>    "When hardware needs to be replaced, it becomes a natural time to
>     consider alternatives. That, in turn, opens the door to the question
>     of upgrading -- not to a Mac, but to Windows."
> 
> o *When Apple moves Mac to Arm, is it time for Mac users to move to Windows?*
> <https://www.zdnet.com/article/when-apple-moves-mac-to-arm-is-it-time-for-mac-users-to-move-to-windows/>
> 
>    "the entire installed base of Macs will become obsolete within 2-5 years.
>     There will come a time, probably in 2024 or 2025, but possibly as early
>     as 2023, when Intel Macs will no longer get operating system updates.
> 
>     At that time, owners of Intel-based Macs will face the same question
>     I mentioned above: Replace them with what?
> 
>     As with year-by-year obsolescence, cost will be an issue. The Mac mini
>     I bought in 2018 was a bit over $2,000... I did price out a roughly
>     equivalent PC and it came to about *half the price*.
> 
>     Within the next three to four years, all Mac users will have to face the
>     decision of whether to upgrade their hardware with new Macs,
>     or with non-Apple PCs."
> 

As usual, you aren't very careful to choose sources that support your 
biases:

'That pretty much sums it up. Even though the prospect of buying new, 
expensive Macs is scary, the total cost of ownership is aggressively 
less than Windows ownership. Beyond that, Mac users are Mac users for a 
reason (or, more accurately, many individual reasons). They, like I, 
will migrate to the new hardware when it becomes necessary.

For most Mac users, the move to Apple Silicon will not only be something 
of a non-event given Apple's skill in architecture migrations, most of 
us will simply move when it's time to buy a new Mac.'

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133197

FromPaul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Date2020-07-04 01:56 -0400
Message-ID<rdp5lv$osc$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#133196
Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2020-07-03 9:06 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
>> UPDATE:
>>
>>    "When hardware needs to be replaced, it becomes a natural time to
>>     consider alternatives. That, in turn, opens the door to the question
>>     of upgrading -- not to a Mac, but to Windows."
>>
>> o *When Apple moves Mac to Arm, is it time for Mac users to move to 
>> Windows?*
>> <https://www.zdnet.com/article/when-apple-moves-mac-to-arm-is-it-time-for-mac-users-to-move-to-windows/> 
>>
>>
>>    "the entire installed base of Macs will become obsolete within 2-5 
>> years.
>>     There will come a time, probably in 2024 or 2025, but possibly as 
>> early
>>     as 2023, when Intel Macs will no longer get operating system updates.
>>
>>     At that time, owners of Intel-based Macs will face the same question
>>     I mentioned above: Replace them with what?
>>
>>     As with year-by-year obsolescence, cost will be an issue. The Mac 
>> mini
>>     I bought in 2018 was a bit over $2,000... I did price out a roughly
>>     equivalent PC and it came to about *half the price*.
>>
>>     Within the next three to four years, all Mac users will have to 
>> face the
>>     decision of whether to upgrade their hardware with new Macs,
>>     or with non-Apple PCs."
>>
> 
> As usual, you aren't very careful to choose sources that support your 
> biases:
> 
> 'That pretty much sums it up. Even though the prospect of buying new, 
> expensive Macs is scary, the total cost of ownership is aggressively 
> less than Windows ownership. Beyond that, Mac users are Mac users for a 
> reason (or, more accurately, many individual reasons). They, like I, 
> will migrate to the new hardware when it becomes necessary.
> 
> For most Mac users, the move to Apple Silicon will not only be something 
> of a non-event given Apple's skill in architecture migrations, most of 
> us will simply move when it's time to buy a new Mac.'

In the article here, at the bottom, the commentators at the bottom
of the article, try to escape in a hype-mobile :-)

https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/23/21296365/apple-mac-arm-processor-silicon-chips-performance-power-speed-wwdc-2020

By having an indeterminate planning cycle, you leave the door open
to... just about anything.

The computing industry has been chock-full of vaporous goodness
in the past. I don't see a reason for that to stop. Even Intel is
riding their rocket powered "inertia machine" right now, overclocking
processors to make it seem like, um, "progress".

Maybe Apple is only making these announcements, to get free advertising ?

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/311529-a-competitive-apple-arm-core-could-finally-break-x86s-long-computing-monopoly

    "Apple has very good reason to want the highest level
     of single-threaded performance it can get."

     [But that's not the plan though, is it. We know what the
      plan is, and it's just as silly now as when others
      announced it and failed in the past.]

    "Since actual Apple hardware isn’t expected to be available soon,
     I’m not going to try to speculate about how the products from
     all three companies will stack up"

     [Can't argue with that]

What Apple can't afford, is for the homegrown ARM project to turn into a
"PowerPC fiasco". Now, how could such a thing happen... Hmmm.

My bag of popcorn is ready.

I'm digging into the photo album for that picture
of the Exponential ECL CPU.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_Technology

    Paul

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133198

FromAlan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no>
Date2020-07-04 00:02 -0700
Message-ID<rdp9i5$9nc$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#133197
On 2020-07-03 10:56 p.m., Paul wrote:
> Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2020-07-03 9:06 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
>>> UPDATE:
>>>
>>>    "When hardware needs to be replaced, it becomes a natural time to
>>>     consider alternatives. That, in turn, opens the door to the question
>>>     of upgrading -- not to a Mac, but to Windows."
>>>
>>> o *When Apple moves Mac to Arm, is it time for Mac users to move to 
>>> Windows?*
>>> <https://www.zdnet.com/article/when-apple-moves-mac-to-arm-is-it-time-for-mac-users-to-move-to-windows/> 
>>>
>>>
>>>    "the entire installed base of Macs will become obsolete within 2-5 
>>> years.
>>>     There will come a time, probably in 2024 or 2025, but possibly as 
>>> early
>>>     as 2023, when Intel Macs will no longer get operating system 
>>> updates.
>>>
>>>     At that time, owners of Intel-based Macs will face the same question
>>>     I mentioned above: Replace them with what?
>>>
>>>     As with year-by-year obsolescence, cost will be an issue. The Mac 
>>> mini
>>>     I bought in 2018 was a bit over $2,000... I did price out a roughly
>>>     equivalent PC and it came to about *half the price*.
>>>
>>>     Within the next three to four years, all Mac users will have to 
>>> face the
>>>     decision of whether to upgrade their hardware with new Macs,
>>>     or with non-Apple PCs."
>>>
>>
>> As usual, you aren't very careful to choose sources that support your 
>> biases:
>>
>> 'That pretty much sums it up. Even though the prospect of buying new, 
>> expensive Macs is scary, the total cost of ownership is aggressively 
>> less than Windows ownership. Beyond that, Mac users are Mac users for 
>> a reason (or, more accurately, many individual reasons). They, like I, 
>> will migrate to the new hardware when it becomes necessary.
>>
>> For most Mac users, the move to Apple Silicon will not only be 
>> something of a non-event given Apple's skill in architecture 
>> migrations, most of us will simply move when it's time to buy a new Mac.'
> 
> In the article here, at the bottom, the commentators at the bottom
> of the article, try to escape in a hype-mobile :-)
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/23/21296365/apple-mac-arm-processor-silicon-chips-performance-power-speed-wwdc-2020 
> 
> 
> By having an indeterminate planning cycle, you leave the door open
> to... just about anything.
> 
> The computing industry has been chock-full of vaporous goodness
> in the past. I don't see a reason for that to stop. Even Intel is
> riding their rocket powered "inertia machine" right now, overclocking
> processors to make it seem like, um, "progress".
> 
> Maybe Apple is only making these announcements, to get free advertising ?
> 
> https://www.extremetech.com/computing/311529-a-competitive-apple-arm-core-could-finally-break-x86s-long-computing-monopoly 
> 
> 
>     "Apple has very good reason to want the highest level
>      of single-threaded performance it can get."
> 
>      [But that's not the plan though, is it. We know what the
>       plan is, and it's just as silly now as when others
>       announced it and failed in the past.]
> 
>     "Since actual Apple hardware isn’t expected to be available soon,
>      I’m not going to try to speculate about how the products from
>      all three companies will stack up"
> 
>      [Can't argue with that]
> 
> What Apple can't afford, is for the homegrown ARM project to turn into a
> "PowerPC fiasco". Now, how could such a thing happen... Hmmm.
> 
> My bag of popcorn is ready.
> 
> I'm digging into the photo album for that picture
> of the Exponential ECL CPU.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_Technology

You get that Apple's homegrown chips are what they've been using in 
iPhone since 2012, right?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133199

FromPaul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Date2020-07-04 03:49 -0400
Message-ID<rdpc9e$ngm$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#133198
Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2020-07-03 10:56 p.m., Paul wrote:
>> Alan Baker wrote:
>>> On 2020-07-03 9:06 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
>>>> UPDATE:
>>>>
>>>>    "When hardware needs to be replaced, it becomes a natural time to
>>>>     consider alternatives. That, in turn, opens the door to the 
>>>> question
>>>>     of upgrading -- not to a Mac, but to Windows."
>>>>
>>>> o *When Apple moves Mac to Arm, is it time for Mac users to move to 
>>>> Windows?*
>>>> <https://www.zdnet.com/article/when-apple-moves-mac-to-arm-is-it-time-for-mac-users-to-move-to-windows/> 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    "the entire installed base of Macs will become obsolete within 
>>>> 2-5 years.
>>>>     There will come a time, probably in 2024 or 2025, but possibly 
>>>> as early
>>>>     as 2023, when Intel Macs will no longer get operating system 
>>>> updates.
>>>>
>>>>     At that time, owners of Intel-based Macs will face the same 
>>>> question
>>>>     I mentioned above: Replace them with what?
>>>>
>>>>     As with year-by-year obsolescence, cost will be an issue. The 
>>>> Mac mini
>>>>     I bought in 2018 was a bit over $2,000... I did price out a roughly
>>>>     equivalent PC and it came to about *half the price*.
>>>>
>>>>     Within the next three to four years, all Mac users will have to 
>>>> face the
>>>>     decision of whether to upgrade their hardware with new Macs,
>>>>     or with non-Apple PCs."
>>>>
>>>
>>> As usual, you aren't very careful to choose sources that support your 
>>> biases:
>>>
>>> 'That pretty much sums it up. Even though the prospect of buying new, 
>>> expensive Macs is scary, the total cost of ownership is aggressively 
>>> less than Windows ownership. Beyond that, Mac users are Mac users for 
>>> a reason (or, more accurately, many individual reasons). They, like 
>>> I, will migrate to the new hardware when it becomes necessary.
>>>
>>> For most Mac users, the move to Apple Silicon will not only be 
>>> something of a non-event given Apple's skill in architecture 
>>> migrations, most of us will simply move when it's time to buy a new 
>>> Mac.'
>>
>> In the article here, at the bottom, the commentators at the bottom
>> of the article, try to escape in a hype-mobile :-)
>>
>> https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/23/21296365/apple-mac-arm-processor-silicon-chips-performance-power-speed-wwdc-2020 
>>
>>
>> By having an indeterminate planning cycle, you leave the door open
>> to... just about anything.
>>
>> The computing industry has been chock-full of vaporous goodness
>> in the past. I don't see a reason for that to stop. Even Intel is
>> riding their rocket powered "inertia machine" right now, overclocking
>> processors to make it seem like, um, "progress".
>>
>> Maybe Apple is only making these announcements, to get free advertising ?
>>
>> https://www.extremetech.com/computing/311529-a-competitive-apple-arm-core-could-finally-break-x86s-long-computing-monopoly 
>>
>>
>>     "Apple has very good reason to want the highest level
>>      of single-threaded performance it can get."
>>
>>      [But that's not the plan though, is it. We know what the
>>       plan is, and it's just as silly now as when others
>>       announced it and failed in the past.]
>>
>>     "Since actual Apple hardware isn’t expected to be available soon,
>>      I’m not going to try to speculate about how the products from
>>      all three companies will stack up"
>>
>>      [Can't argue with that]
>>
>> What Apple can't afford, is for the homegrown ARM project to turn into a
>> "PowerPC fiasco". Now, how could such a thing happen... Hmmm.
>>
>> My bag of popcorn is ready.
>>
>> I'm digging into the photo album for that picture
>> of the Exponential ECL CPU.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_Technology
> 
> You get that Apple's homegrown chips are what they've been using in 
> iPhone since 2012, right?

And what class are they ???

If I run SuperPI 32M on it, how many seconds does it take ???

If ARM was intended (by ARM Holdings) to be a rocket powered
car, it would already be a rocket powered car. I don't think
the ARM staff had any intention of going "head to head with Intel".

I fail to see how this can end well. Sorry.

To be successful in that business, you have to add some
value, and do it without patent overhang. And patents
are a major impediment to anyone running the gauntlet.
Is the Apple patent portfolio "Intel-proof" ?

Intel doesn't always play nice.

Now, if we assign reasonable expectations to the
outcome, what is the resulting chip worth ?

    Paul

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133201

FromAlan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no>
Date2020-07-04 01:13 -0700
Message-ID<rdpdmp$uht$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#133199
On 2020-07-04 12:49 a.m., Paul wrote:
> Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2020-07-03 10:56 p.m., Paul wrote:
>>> Alan Baker wrote:
>>>> On 2020-07-03 9:06 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
>>>>> UPDATE:
>>>>>
>>>>>    "When hardware needs to be replaced, it becomes a natural time to
>>>>>     consider alternatives. That, in turn, opens the door to the 
>>>>> question
>>>>>     of upgrading -- not to a Mac, but to Windows."
>>>>>
>>>>> o *When Apple moves Mac to Arm, is it time for Mac users to move to 
>>>>> Windows?*
>>>>> <https://www.zdnet.com/article/when-apple-moves-mac-to-arm-is-it-time-for-mac-users-to-move-to-windows/> 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    "the entire installed base of Macs will become obsolete within 
>>>>> 2-5 years.
>>>>>     There will come a time, probably in 2024 or 2025, but possibly 
>>>>> as early
>>>>>     as 2023, when Intel Macs will no longer get operating system 
>>>>> updates.
>>>>>
>>>>>     At that time, owners of Intel-based Macs will face the same 
>>>>> question
>>>>>     I mentioned above: Replace them with what?
>>>>>
>>>>>     As with year-by-year obsolescence, cost will be an issue. The 
>>>>> Mac mini
>>>>>     I bought in 2018 was a bit over $2,000... I did price out a 
>>>>> roughly
>>>>>     equivalent PC and it came to about *half the price*.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Within the next three to four years, all Mac users will have to 
>>>>> face the
>>>>>     decision of whether to upgrade their hardware with new Macs,
>>>>>     or with non-Apple PCs."
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As usual, you aren't very careful to choose sources that support 
>>>> your biases:
>>>>
>>>> 'That pretty much sums it up. Even though the prospect of buying 
>>>> new, expensive Macs is scary, the total cost of ownership is 
>>>> aggressively less than Windows ownership. Beyond that, Mac users are 
>>>> Mac users for a reason (or, more accurately, many individual 
>>>> reasons). They, like I, will migrate to the new hardware when it 
>>>> becomes necessary.
>>>>
>>>> For most Mac users, the move to Apple Silicon will not only be 
>>>> something of a non-event given Apple's skill in architecture 
>>>> migrations, most of us will simply move when it's time to buy a new 
>>>> Mac.'
>>>
>>> In the article here, at the bottom, the commentators at the bottom
>>> of the article, try to escape in a hype-mobile :-)
>>>
>>> https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/23/21296365/apple-mac-arm-processor-silicon-chips-performance-power-speed-wwdc-2020 
>>>
>>>
>>> By having an indeterminate planning cycle, you leave the door open
>>> to... just about anything.
>>>
>>> The computing industry has been chock-full of vaporous goodness
>>> in the past. I don't see a reason for that to stop. Even Intel is
>>> riding their rocket powered "inertia machine" right now, overclocking
>>> processors to make it seem like, um, "progress".
>>>
>>> Maybe Apple is only making these announcements, to get free 
>>> advertising ?
>>>
>>> https://www.extremetech.com/computing/311529-a-competitive-apple-arm-core-could-finally-break-x86s-long-computing-monopoly 
>>>
>>>
>>>     "Apple has very good reason to want the highest level
>>>      of single-threaded performance it can get."
>>>
>>>      [But that's not the plan though, is it. We know what the
>>>       plan is, and it's just as silly now as when others
>>>       announced it and failed in the past.]
>>>
>>>     "Since actual Apple hardware isn’t expected to be available soon,
>>>      I’m not going to try to speculate about how the products from
>>>      all three companies will stack up"
>>>
>>>      [Can't argue with that]
>>>
>>> What Apple can't afford, is for the homegrown ARM project to turn into a
>>> "PowerPC fiasco". Now, how could such a thing happen... Hmmm.
>>>
>>> My bag of popcorn is ready.
>>>
>>> I'm digging into the photo album for that picture
>>> of the Exponential ECL CPU.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_Technology
>>
>> You get that Apple's homegrown chips are what they've been using in 
>> iPhone since 2012, right?
> 
> And what class are they ???

Don't know.

But the benchmark scores that have been run using Intel versions of the 
benchmark software aren't bad.

> 
> If I run SuperPI 32M on it, how many seconds does it take ???
> 
> If ARM was intended (by ARM Holdings) to be a rocket powered
> car, it would already be a rocket powered car. I don't think
> the ARM staff had any intention of going "head to head with Intel".

ARM isn't designing the chips:

Apple is.

> 
> I fail to see how this can end well. Sorry.
> 
> To be successful in that business, you have to add some
> value, and do it without patent overhang. And patents
> are a major impediment to anyone running the gauntlet.
> Is the Apple patent portfolio "Intel-proof" ?
> 
> Intel doesn't always play nice.
> 
> Now, if we assign reasonable expectations to the
> outcome, what is the resulting chip worth ?

You need to educate yourself as to what Apple has already done designing 
CPUs for the ARM ISA...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133205

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2020-07-04 12:50 +0000
Message-ID<slrnrg0uo0.16ah.g.kreme@ProMini.lan>
In reply to#133199
In message <rdpc9e$ngm$1@dont-email.me> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> Alan Baker wrote:
>> You get that Apple's homegrown chips are what they've been using in 
>> iPhone since 2012, right?

> If ARM was intended (by ARM Holdings) to be a rocket powered
> car, it would already be a rocket powered car. I don't think
> the ARM staff had any intention of going "head to head with Intel".

The world's faster super computer is an ARM based machine.

It is about 3 times faster than the #2 machine.

https://top500.org/
The new top system, Fugaku, turned in a High Performance Linpack (HPL)
result of 415.5 petaflops, besting the now second-place Summit system by
a factor of 2.8x.  Fugaku, is powered by Fujitsu’s 48-core A64FX SoC,
becoming the first number one system on the list to be powered by ARM
processors.

-- 
"Master, what is the difference between a humanistic, monastic system
	of belief in which wisdom is sought by means of an apparently
	nonsensical system of questions and answers, and a lot of mystic
	gibberish made up on the spur of the moment?" Wen considered this
	for some time, and a last said: "A fish!"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133214

FromArlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com>
Date2020-07-04 16:24 +0000
Message-ID<rdqaf1$f81$1@news.mixmin.net>
In reply to#133205
On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 12:50:08 -0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:

> The world's faster super computer is an ARM based machine. 
> It is about 3 times faster than the #2 machine.

The Type III apologists like Lewis feel that because a super fast machine
can be created out of almost any CPU (if you have enough of them), that,
magically, it translates to Apple making a fast machine out of one of them.

It's just not logically feasible what Lewis is constantly arguing.
o It simply proves, yet again, Lewis is awed by MARKETING bullshit.

The fact is that Apple has _never_ even once in its entire history ever
made a best-in-class smartphone CPU, so what makes Apple think they can
make a best-in-class PC CPU?

HINT: They likely can't. (it's all marketing bullshit)
DOUBLEHINT: It's called "product differentiation").

I repeat the fact which nobody has ever refuted with actual facts!:

  ... *Apple has _never_ even made a best-in-class smartphone cpu* ... 
    So what makes Lewis think Apple can make a best-in-class PC CPU?

HINT: Nothing. It's imaginary. And lots (and lots) of MARKETING.
-- 
Before anyone claims Apple smartphone chips are "best in class", don't
ignore the fact that almost every single one of them is not only fatally
flawed where those compromises are unpatchable, but almost every one of
them is throttled by Apple, with Apple adding _more_ of them to throttling
in iOS 10, then more in iOS 11, then more in iOS 12, and then even more in
iOS 13, such that almost all Apple smartphone CPUs are to be throttled.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133216

FromAlan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no>
Date2020-07-04 09:41 -0700
Message-ID<rdqbf4$8db$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#133214
On 2020-07-04 9:24 a.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 12:50:08 -0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:
> 
>> The world's faster super computer is an ARM based machine.
>> It is about 3 times faster than the #2 machine.
> The Type III apologists like Lewis feel that because a super fast machine
> can be created out of almost any CPU (if you have enough of them), that,
> magically, it translates to Apple making a fast machine out of one of them.
> 
> It's just not logically feasible what Lewis is constantly arguing.
> o It simply proves, yet again, Lewis is awed by MARKETING bullshit.
> 
> The fact is that Apple has_never_  even once in its entire history ever
> made a best-in-class smartphone CPU, so what makes Apple think they can
> make a best-in-class PC CPU?
> 
> HINT: They likely can't. (it's all marketing bullshit)
> DOUBLEHINT: It's called "product differentiation").
> 
> I repeat the fact which nobody has ever refuted with actual facts!:
> 
>    ...*Apple has _never_ even made a best-in-class smartphone cpu*  ...
>      So what makes Lewis think Apple can make a best-in-class PC CPU?
> 
> HINT: Nothing. It's imaginary. And lots (and lots) of MARKETING.
> Before anyone claims Apple smartphone chips are "best in class", 
> don't ignore the fact that almost every single one of them is not only 
> fatally flawed where those compromises are unpatchable, but almost every 
> one of them is throttled by Apple, with Apple adding _more_ of them to 
> throttling in iOS 10, then more in iOS 11, then more in iOS 12, and then 
> even more in iOS 13, such that almost all Apple smartphone CPUs are to 
> be throttled.

And yet even allegedly "throttled", they outperform every other 
smartphone CPU...

...and you've never explained what these alleged "fatal flaws" are.

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#133218

FromPaul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Date2020-07-04 14:01 -0400
Message-ID<rdqg5n$848$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#133205
Lewis wrote:
> In message <rdpc9e$ngm$1@dont-email.me> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>> Alan Baker wrote:
>>> You get that Apple's homegrown chips are what they've been using in 
>>> iPhone since 2012, right?
> 
>> If ARM was intended (by ARM Holdings) to be a rocket powered
>> car, it would already be a rocket powered car. I don't think
>> the ARM staff had any intention of going "head to head with Intel".
> 
> The world's faster super computer is an ARM based machine.
> 
> It is about 3 times faster than the #2 machine.
> 
> https://top500.org/
> The new top system, Fugaku, turned in a High Performance Linpack (HPL)
> result of 415.5 petaflops, besting the now second-place Summit system by
> a factor of 2.8x.  Fugaku, is powered by Fujitsu’s 48-core A64FX SoC,
> becoming the first number one system on the list to be powered by ARM
> processors.
> 

FFS Lewis, will you stop with that nonsense!

TOP500 computers run parallelized "perfect scaling" applications.

There are very few things you can do on a TOP500 computer,
that have the necessary scaling properties. Not even Cinebench
would scale on there.

The majority of desktop code that matters, does not parallelize.
It's serialized.

A desktop computer needs at least one computer core that runs at "top clock".

This is why, a desktop processor that Intel made that turbos on
two cores to top clock, was such a win. It provided a core for
interrupt handling and various background activity, plus a core
that could run straight-line code at top speed. But even turboing
on one core is handy. (That's because Intel improved on the time
interval needed to change power states. It no longer takes 100us.)

Is that what ARM Holdings designed the ISA for ?
Can they turbo on one core ? To 5GHz ? And retire four
instructions per clock tick (IPC) ?

On my high-core-count machine, most of the time the
excess of cores are idle. The only time I get good usage
of the machine, is doing 7ZIP compression. Some
compression runs last for 24 hours.

Adobe Photoshop, half of the filters are parallelized,
half of the filters are single threaded. When the new
hardware comes out, a Mac enthusiast site will run PSBench
and they'll be noting how well the serialized filters
run on the new hardware. That's how the new hardware
will get its rating of "winner or loser".

Photoshop was one of the first applications to popularize
the notion of parallelism. Including the usage of
accelerator cards (card with dual DSP on it), to help
before CPUs had the cores necessary. The new hardware
though, has to prove its stuff, by making "Rotate" run faster.
("Rotate" is single threaded, and according to the article
written by Adobe long ago, it's done single threaded so
you can rotate 72 times by 5 degrees and "get back your
original photo"). There are other filters, where excess
error accumulation is not considered a problem.

If all of the code in the ecosystem could be converted
to perfect-scaling parallelized code, then this exercise
has a hope of succeeding. I've not heard of any
breakthroughs in this regard.

If I'd seen any sign that ARM is a "top clock" kind of
arch, there'd really be nothing to say. It's good on
mobile platforms. It's good at saving power. Now, we
wait for someone to make a 300W chip that runs at... ???
At a speed suitable for serialized code, able to beat
Intel on serialized.

Apple will simply try to bury the issue. And everyone
will leave the scene in a hype-mobile. As it should be.

I've got three Apple computers on the table I'm sitting at.
I've lived it. I know what it's like to run Unreal at 20FPS
and pretend I'm enjoying myself. Apple fixed that when
they moved to Intel. I would have no right to complain
about the platform today. But now what ? Well, I
guess we'll find out some day.

    Paul

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#133219

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2020-07-04 14:07 -0400
Message-ID<040720201407125179%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#133218
In article <rdqg5n$848$1@dont-email.me>, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:


> I've got three Apple computers on the table I'm sitting at.
> I've lived it. I know what it's like to run Unreal at 20FPS
> and pretend I'm enjoying myself. Apple fixed that when
> they moved to Intel. I would have no right to complain
> about the platform today.

what you have are 20 years old and your complaints are not relevant.

> But now what ? Well, I
> guess we'll find out some day.

that day will be in a few months.

it's quite obvious what's about to happen, at least to those without
blinders.

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#133220

FromArlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com>
Date2020-07-04 18:35 +0000
Message-ID<rdqi5b$vp0$1@news.mixmin.net>
In reply to#133218
On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 14:01:28 -0400, Paul wrote:

> FFS Lewis, will you stop with that nonsense!

Hi Paul,

Now you know what I deal with every day on the Apple newsgroups...
o Type III apologists like Lewis aren't capable of adult logical thought.

Lewis truly thinks...
Since, with oodles of money, they can make a super computer using ARM silicon... 
o Apple can therefore make a best in class PC CPU (calling it "Apple Silicon").

That's the same logic as if a red race car with STP stickers wins a race...
o Then people like Lewis run out to buy STP for their red Honda Civic.

Type III apologists like Lewis are _that_ incredibly immune to logic!
o Type I, like nospam, are essentially informal Apple MARKETING spokesmen
o Type II, like sms, are no malicious, just influenced greatly by MARKETING
o Type III, like Lewis & Alan Baker believe _everything_ MARKETING claims

Note: It's critical to realize that while Type I apologists like nospam
"sound" like Type III apologists like Lewis, the crucial difference is that
nsopam doesn't believe half of what he claims, while Lewis actually and
truly is telling us how his belief system works.

That is, while nospam realizes you can't compare a super computer to a PC
computer for this purpose, Lewis actually _believes_ that, since they "can"
make a super computer using ARM technology, that the Apple PC will, in
essence, be a super computer (of sorts).

Type I apologists don't even believe, themselves, most of their claims.
Type II apologists mostly just don't think all that much about the claims.
Type III apologists, sadly, actually believe everything that they claim.

The fact Type III apologists flock to purely imaginary belief systems... 
o Is why (admittedly brilliant) Apple MARKETING holds sway on them.
-- 
Apologists like Lewis believe anything MARKETING feeds them to believe.

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#133222

FromAlan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
Date2020-07-04 15:16 -0400
Message-ID<7A4MG.82953$AN2.7960@fx46.iad>
In reply to#133218
On 2020-07-04 14:01, Paul wrote:
> Lewis wrote:
>> In message <rdpc9e$ngm$1@dont-email.me> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> 
>> wrote:
>>> Alan Baker wrote:
>>>> You get that Apple's homegrown chips are what they've been using in 
>>>> iPhone since 2012, right?
>>
>>> If ARM was intended (by ARM Holdings) to be a rocket powered
>>> car, it would already be a rocket powered car. I don't think
>>> the ARM staff had any intention of going "head to head with Intel".
>>
>> The world's faster super computer is an ARM based machine.
>>
>> It is about 3 times faster than the #2 machine.
>>
>> https://top500.org/
>> The new top system, Fugaku, turned in a High Performance Linpack (HPL)
>> result of 415.5 petaflops, besting the now second-place Summit system by
>> a factor of 2.8x.  Fugaku, is powered by Fujitsu’s 48-core A64FX SoC,
>> becoming the first number one system on the list to be powered by ARM
>> processors.
>>
> 
> FFS Lewis, will you stop with that nonsense!
> 
> TOP500 computers run parallelized "perfect scaling" applications.

No.  While the problem may be a rectangle, cube or higher order matrix, 
the programming is such that it need not execute in lock step.  Thus, 
threads are thrown at cores as they become available and the solution 
happens when the last thread completes.  For most of the program run all 
cores are working on the problem.  At the end the sums happen (or 
whatever other math) and the solution moves forward to the next iteration.

Perfection is the enemy of good enough - ESPECIALLY where super 
computers are concerned.

Another example is protein folding.  A massive problem well divided into 
work units and distributed amongst many computers - different OS' and 
CPUs and GPUs.   Each does its package and returns its result and starts 
on its next package.

Indeed, such held the record for super computing as recently as April.

> 
> There are very few things you can do on a TOP500 computer,
> that have the necessary scaling properties. Not even Cinebench
> would scale on there.
> 
> The majority of desktop code that matters, does not parallelize.
> It's serialized.

It's multi-threaded.  Which is why apps like Handbrake can process so 
much, so fast, on multicore machines (to some limit).  Which is why it 
also scales to GPU's well (to some limit).

> 
> A desktop computer needs at least one computer core that runs at "top 
> clock".
> 
> This is why, a desktop processor that Intel made that turbos on
> two cores to top clock, was such a win. It provided a core for
> interrupt handling and various background activity, plus a core
> that could run straight-line code at top speed. But even turboing
> on one core is handy. (That's because Intel improved on the time
> interval needed to change power states. It no longer takes 100us.)
> 
> Is that what ARM Holdings designed the ISA for ?
> Can they turbo on one core ? To 5GHz ? And retire four
> instructions per clock tick (IPC) ?

Like everything including x86, ARM's _evolve_.  They are not even 
properly RISC processors anymore - just as x86 is no longer solely CISC.

And like the x86, ARM lends itself to multicore architecture as well as 
all the tricks of the trade (simultaneous execution while a branch is 
being evaluated, etc.)

> On my high-core-count machine, most of the time the
> excess of cores are idle. The only time I get good usage
> of the machine, is doing 7ZIP compression. Some
> compression runs last for 24 hours.

I have a variety of apps that will keep 4 cores saturated and their HT 
'ganger loaded to 70% or more.  Indeed if I run 2 instances of 
HandbrakeCLI I get perfect saturation.

At that point the CPU is thermally limited only.

If your machines were up-to-date, you'd be doing those runs in far less 
time and use less energy to do so.

> If all of the code in the ecosystem could be converted
> to perfect-scaling parallelized code, then this exercise
> has a hope of succeeding. I've not heard of any
> breakthroughs in this regard.

Not needed.  At all.  Anymore than it is now on machines running over a 
dozen cores.

> 
> Apple will simply try to bury the issue. And everyone
> will leave the scene in a hype-mobile. As it should be.
> 
> I've got three Apple computers on the table I'm sitting at.
> I've lived it. I know what it's like to run Unreal at 20FPS
> and pretend I'm enjoying myself. Apple fixed that when
> they moved to Intel. I would have no right to complain
> about the platform today. But now what ? Well, I
> guess we'll find out some day.

Very soon.  And like when people were terrified of the PowerPC 
abandonment for "crappy intel", it will all be forgotten a year later 
when Apple/ARM shows its stuff on Macs.

Apple are not going backwards.  But you're staying lost 2 decades worth.

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#133240

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2020-07-04 17:08 -0400
Message-ID<sd6MG.4579$Nfa.1156@fx17.iad>
In reply to#133218
On 2020-07-04 14:01, Paul wrote:

> The majority of desktop code that matters, does not parallelize.
> It's serialized.
> 
> A desktop computer needs at least one computer core that runs at "top clock".

If you are rending a movie on Premiere/After Effects, you will want top
performance from all the cores and as many cores as you can get. Same
with Handbrake and ffmpeg. (Though Handbrajke seems better at makming
full use of all cores)

games tend to offload to GPUs and less reliant on multiple cores, so for
them, you might need only one high performace core,



> If I'd seen any sign that ARM is a "top clock" kind of
> arch, there'd really be nothing to say.

Beware of clock. When comparing 2 different architectures, how much work
is performed per clock cycle is different. And even within one
architecture, how much work is perform per clock cycle is different.

For instance, consider instruction pre-fetching where an instructuion is
decoded and contents of memory pre-loaded into registers so that by the
time the instrucrtions gets into the actual CPU part, it runs instatntly
without ant waiting because the aclues are already loaded into the
registers.

So you can get singlificant performance boost with logic and not just
raw power. Alpha for instance (and I assime many now) had predictive
branch logic, so it would start to decode both istruction streams that
would be the outcome of a "branch if" opcode ahead. This way, when the
branch-if instruction is executed by the CPU, the next instruction was
already decoded and ready in the pipeline wether the branch went
somewhere else or used the next instruction (no branch).

This is not related to clock but still creates a hige performance advantage.

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#133206

Fromsms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
Date2020-07-04 07:23 -0700
Message-ID<rdq3di$ojt$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#133199
On 7/4/2020 12:49 AM, Paul wrote:

<snip>

> If ARM was intended (by ARM Holdings) to be a rocket powered
> car, it would already be a rocket powered car. I don't think
> the ARM staff had any intention of going "head to head with Intel".
> 
> I fail to see how this can end well. Sorry.
> 
> To be successful in that business, you have to add some
> value, and do it without patent overhang. And patents
> are a major impediment to anyone running the gauntlet.
> Is the Apple patent portfolio "Intel-proof" ?
> 
> Intel doesn't always play nice.
> 
> Now, if we assign reasonable expectations to the
> outcome, what is the resulting chip worth ?

You have to believe that Apple made some sort of a licensing and royalty 
arrangement with Intel before going down this road.

It also could be that there are still going to be a couple of x86 Mac 
machines manufactured, like a Xeon Mac Pro, and maybe one Core i9 
Macbook Pro, for power users.

For most users Apple probably figures that the potential battery life 
improvements by using a CPU with a much lower TDP, as well as the cost 
savings, outweighs the loss of the subset of customers that are using 
x86 applications that would suffer a significant performance hit by 
requiring both virtualization and emulation.

While some OS-X x86 applications may be re-written to run natively on 
the A15 (or whatever the CPU is called), some companies may just not 
bother and tell their users that there will be no future OS-X releases.

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#133210

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2020-07-04 11:03 -0400
Message-ID<040720201103022235%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#133206
In article <rdq3di$ojt$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> 
> You have to believe that Apple made some sort of a licensing and royalty 
> arrangement with Intel before going down this road.

no, because intel has nothing to do with apple's chip design.

> It also could be that there are still going to be a couple of x86 Mac 
> machines manufactured, like a Xeon Mac Pro, and maybe one Core i9 
> Macbook Pro, for power users.

apple stated that there are more intel macs in the pipeline, although
probably not very many, since demand for them is going to be much
lower.

> For most users Apple probably figures that the potential battery life 
> improvements by using a CPU with a much lower TDP, as well as the cost 
> savings, outweighs the loss of the subset of customers that are using 
> x86 applications that would suffer a significant performance hit by 
> requiring both virtualization and emulation.

desktop macs do not have batteries and there will not be a 'significant
performance hit', especially for virtualization, which is effectively
zero.

based on existing devices using apple designed processors, it's *very*
likely that apple silicon macs running intel apps will be comparable to
or even faster than on a similar intel mac in most tasks.

this already happened once before, where 68k apps ran faster on a
powerpc mac than natively on a 68k mac.

> While some OS-X x86 applications may be re-written to run natively on 
> the A15 (or whatever the CPU is called), some companies may just not 
> bother and tell their users that there will be no future OS-X releases.

an opportunity their competitors will gladly seize.

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#133212

FromArlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com>
Date2020-07-04 16:08 +0000
Message-ID<rdq9id$d61$1@news.mixmin.net>
In reply to#133210
On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 11:03:02 -0400, nospam wrote:

> based on existing devices using apple designed processors, it's *very*
> likely that apple silicon macs running intel apps will be comparable to
> or even faster than on a similar intel mac in most tasks.

*nospam proves, yet again, he's completely bamboozled by Apple MARKETING!*

Anyone using the idiotic phrase "Apple Silicon" for what is, was, and has
always been "ARM Silicon", in this case, fab'd by TSMC, is already proven
to be completely bamboozled by MARKETING bullshit.

Fact is, when nospam uses that idiotic term, "Apple Silicon", it _proves_
he's bamboozled by MARKETING because it means he _believes_ the bullshit.

For more details where people called it "ARM Silicon" for years, until
basically this week, when Apple MARKETING became _desperate_ for people to
NOT think of it as what it is (think "product differentiation), see this:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.mac.system/ElvAtPCgr6I/5DDVwYz_AgAJ>
-- 
People using idiotic purely MARKETING-bullshit terms like "Apple Silicon"
for what has always been called "ARM Silicon" are simply proving that they
are incapable of thinking any other way than what Apple MARKETING wants
them to believe.

<https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/06/12/ten-years-of-apple-technology-shifts-made-the-arm-mac-possible> 
Notice in _that_ article, written prior to Apple's ridiculously desperate 
attempt to have the ignorati focus NOT on the ARM technology they're 
licensing, they repeatedly call it "ARM Silicon" & "ARM chips", etc. 

  "Apple's transition to Macs with *proprietary ARM chips* may soon be 
   officially acknowledged, but there have been clear and definite signs 
   of the switch for years." 

  "Laying the groundwork for *ARM Macs*" 

  "The actual start of the *transition to ARM Macs*" 

  "with the first of the *ARM-based Macs* due to potentially debut in
2021." 

  "Apple is already an *ARM chipmaking expert*, with A-series chips 
   powering the company's iPhones, iPads and Apple TVs." 

  "paving the way for an *ARM Mac* in general." 

  "Apple has laid the groundwork for *ARM Macs* for longer than a decade." 

  "Rumors of an *ARM Mac* are fairly recent* 

  "With a switch to *ARM-based CPUs*, there are opportunities for 
   even further integration" 

  "Apple made... the first publicly visible step toward an *ARM Mac*" 

  "Apple may not have specifically had an *ARM Mac* in mind when it 
   released Xcode" 

  "tentative signs that Apple may bring the IDE to *ARM-based chips* 

  "For *Apple-designed hardware like ARM chips*, it's... integral" 

  "although not a heralding of *ARM-based Mac* devices" 

  "Apple will apply the lessons... *to ARM Macs*." 

  "could also play a larger role in the transition to *ARM-based Macs*" 

  "There's a high possibility that Apple will market the *switch to ARM* 
   as a security upgrade" 

  "bake its features directly into an *ARM system-on-chip* (SoC)." 

  "One of the more major changes that *paved the way for ARM Macs* was 
   the death of 32-bit apps" 

  "For a transition to *ARM-based Macs, that's going to be an important 
   point" 

  "Apple has a clear goal and path in mind for the *switch to ARM*" 

  "the overall transition to *ARM-based Macs* isn't going to be a short
one." 
  
  "For eagle-eyed technologists and enthusiasts, it also hinted at the 
   potential of *Apple's first-party _ARM silicon_*." 
-- 
Apple Silicon is a frantically desperate ploy ignoring it's ARM Silicon. 

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#133213 — Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs

FromAlan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no>
Date2020-07-04 09:16 -0700
SubjectArlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs
Message-ID<rdqa1m$18n$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#133212
On 2020-07-04 9:08 a.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 11:03:02 -0400, nospam wrote:
> 
>> based on existing devices using apple designed processors, it's *very*
>> likely that apple silicon macs running intel apps will be comparable to
>> or even faster than on a similar intel mac in most tasks.
> 
> *nospam proves, yet again, he's completely bamboozled by Apple MARKETING!*
> 
> Anyone using the idiotic phrase "Apple Silicon" for what is, was, and has
> always been "ARM Silicon", in this case, fab'd by TSMC, is already proven
> to be completely bamboozled by MARKETING bullshit.

You're an idiot.

It has now been shown over and over that Apple designs its own chips.

> 
> Fact is, when nospam uses that idiotic term, "Apple Silicon", it _proves_
> he's bamboozled by MARKETING because it means he _believes_ the bullshit.
> 
> For more details where people called it "ARM Silicon" for years, until
> basically this week, when Apple MARKETING became _desperate_ for people to
> NOT think of it as what it is (think "product differentiation), see this:
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.mac.system/ElvAtPCgr6I/5DDVwYz_AgAJ>
> 

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#133223 — Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs

FromPaul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Date2020-07-04 15:19 -0400
SubjectRe: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs
Message-ID<rdqkog$4g1$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#133213
Alan Baker wrote:

> 
> It has now been shown over and over that Apple designs its own chips.

What prevents people from running off and designing processors ?

It's called a patent portfolio.

There are like, a thousand patents you have to dodge, while
designing such hardware.

If anything is perceived as a threat to Intel, you
can be damn sure they'll decap that chip and have
it scanned for patent infringement. There is a
company that specializes in this topic, of scanning
for patent material. Intel doesn't even have to warm
up their own electron microscope.

Oh, my, is that a ring oscillator I see in there ?
Is that a charge pump on some dynamic circuitry ?
Who has the patent on that ? And so on.

When Microsoft said "we're going to make an x86 software interpreter
for our new ARM box". Intel threatened them. Microsoft backed off.

Which company has the richest patent portfolio ?

Will they go to patent war with one another ?

Will Apple boxes be stopped at the border, on their way from China ?

    Paul

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#133227 — Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs

FromArlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com>
Date2020-07-04 19:36 +0000
SubjectRe: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs
Message-ID<rdqlo7$809$1@news.mixmin.net>
In reply to#133223
On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 15:19:44 -0400, Paul wrote:

> What prevents people from running off and designing processors ?
> It's called a patent portfolio.

Hi Paul,

It's similar to the hurdle that Apple/Intel found out when they tried (and
failed, so far anyway) to build something as simple as a "modem".

 ... *Even after spending _billions_ of dollars on the modem project!* ...

HINT: As you noted, it's all about the patent portfolio.
o Now compare a "modem" to a PC CPU in terms of potential patents

(Although, unlike Lewis, I realize they're fundamentally different so I'm
only asking for a comparison on size & complexity, not on digital
performance versus analog/rf performance, which is mostly the real
technology comparison between the CPU & modem comparison).

(Also note that licensing the ARM technology obviates at least the ARM
patents, which, of course, is how and why ARM makes money off of Apple.)

Apple has never created a best-in-class modem; Apple has never created a
best-in-class GPU; Apple has never created a best-in-class smartphone
CPU... and yet, these apologists "believe" Apple will create a
best-in-class ARM CPU for their beloved Mac.

Maybe Apple will pull it off... 
o But more than likely, Apple MARKETING will tout it more than it's real.

Remember, of _all_ of high tech, NOBODY can find a _single_ high-tech
company that has a _lower_ R&D spend % than Apple. Nobody.

They _hate_ that Apple is all MARKETING and almost no actual R&D...
o They _believe_ only in the MARKETING (which, admittedly, is brilliant).

And yet, the MARKETING works on them basically because they're ignorant.
o I assess, personally, that Alan Baker's IQ is roughly around 40 or 50.

Just as I did for Snit.

In two decades on Usenet, I've only bothered to killfile two people:
o Snit & Alan Baker
Where that alone should tell you what I think of anything Alan Baker says.
-- 
2 kinds of people post to Usenet: Those who add value; and those who can't.

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#133238 — Re: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2020-07-04 21:07 +0000
SubjectRe: Arlen is an idiot Re: Explore the new system architectire of Apple Silicon Macs
Message-ID<hmc9bvFecrvU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#133227
Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 15:19:44 -0400, Paul wrote:
> 
>> What prevents people from running off and designing processors ?
>> It's called a patent portfolio.
> 
> Hi Paul,
> 
> It's similar to the hurdle that Apple/Intel found out when they tried (and
> failed, so far anyway) to build something as simple as a "modem".
> 
>  ... *Even after spending _billions_ of dollars on the modem project!* ...
> 
> HINT: As you noted, it's all about the patent portfolio.
> o Now compare a "modem" to a PC CPU in terms of potential patents
> 
> (Although, unlike Lewis, I realize they're fundamentally different so I'm
> only asking for a comparison on size & complexity, not on digital
> performance versus analog/rf performance, which is mostly the real
> technology comparison between the CPU & modem comparison).
> 
> (Also note that licensing the ARM technology obviates at least the ARM
> patents, which, of course, is how and why ARM makes money off of Apple.)
> 
> Apple has never created a best-in-class modem; Apple has never created a
> best-in-class GPU; Apple has never created a best-in-class smartphone
> CPU... and yet, these apologists "believe" Apple will create a
> best-in-class ARM CPU for their beloved Mac.
> 
> Maybe Apple will pull it off... 
> o But more than likely, Apple MARKETING will tout it more than it's real.
> 
> Remember, of _all_ of high tech, NOBODY can find a _single_ high-tech
> company that has a _lower_ R&D spend % than Apple. Nobody.
> 
> They _hate_ that Apple is all MARKETING and almost no actual R&D...
> o They _believe_ only in the MARKETING (which, admittedly, is brilliant).
> 
> And yet, the MARKETING works on them basically because they're ignorant.
> o I assess, personally, that Alan Baker's IQ is roughly around 40 or 50.
> 
> Just as I did for Snit.
> 
> In two decades on Usenet, I've only bothered to killfile two people:
> o Snit & Alan Baker
> Where that alone should tell you what I think of anything Alan Baker says.

Ah, yes. I showed you things I could do very easily in iOS and my Mac that
you could not replicate. Freaked you out. 

Love it! 

-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger. They cling to their attacks
and ignore the message time and time again.

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