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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #132814 > unrolled thread

Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]

Started byArlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com>
First post2020-06-09 14:28 +0000
Last post2020-06-26 02:27 +0000
Articles 15 on this page of 35 — 9 participants

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Contents

  Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC  [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-09 14:28 +0000
    Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-09 11:27 -0700
      Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-09 16:58 -0400
        Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-22 02:38 +0000
          OT: Why must Arlen lie? (was Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-22 01:10 -0700
          Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-22 19:50 +0000
            Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-06-22 16:29 -0400
              Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-22 19:43 -0400
                Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-06-22 20:02 -0400
                  Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-06-24 09:59 -0400
                    Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-06-24 10:24 -0400
                      Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-06-24 10:43 -0400
                    Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-24 16:17 -0400
                      Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-06-24 16:19 -0400
                Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-22 17:03 -0700
                  Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-22 20:20 -0400
                    Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-22 17:52 -0700
                      Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-06-27 17:57 -0400
                        Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-06-28 10:29 +1200
                        Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-27 19:31 -0700
                        Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] Tim <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2020-06-28 12:29 +0000
                    Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-06-24 10:02 -0400
                Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-23 04:51 +0000
                Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-06-24 10:04 -0400
              Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-23 05:01 +0000
            Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-22 14:03 -0700
              Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-06-23 09:47 +1200
                Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-22 15:33 -0700
                Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-23 16:02 +0000
                  Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] David Sankey <David.Sankey@stfc.ac.uk> - 2020-06-23 18:28 +0100
                    Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-06-24 10:50 -0400
                      Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-24 15:22 +0000
                      Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] David Sankey <David.Sankey@stfc.ac.uk> - 2020-06-24 17:36 +0100
                  Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-23 14:48 -0700
    Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC  [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14] Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-26 02:27 +0000

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#133016 — Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]

FromTim <timstreater@greenbee.net>
Date2020-06-28 12:29 +0000
SubjectRe: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]
Message-ID<hlrgpfFqifsU5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#132988
On 27 Jun 2020 at 22:57:48 BST, Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> writes:
> 
>> On 2020-06-22 5:20 p.m., JF Mezei wrote:
>>> On 2020-06-22 20:03, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>> On 2020-06-22 4:43 p.m., JF Mezei wrote:
>>>>> On 2020-06-22 16:29, nospam wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> it's much more than 'arm-based chips'.
>>>>> 
>>>>> From the compiler's point of view, the code that runs on the CPU is ARM.
>>>> 
>>>> Which doesn't make chips designed by Apple any less "Apple silicon" than
>>>> running Intel's instruction set makes AMD's chips.
>>> 
>>> I never implied such. 
>> 
>> Actually... ...you kind of did.
>> 
>>> The fact remains that Apple has implemneted the
>>> ARM architecture and as such, the code that runs in the CPU runs the ARM
>>> instruction set, as generated by the compiler.  This does not diminiosh
>>> the huge performance boosts that Apple has been able to get from its own
>>> implememntations year after year.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> And you're going to have that, but P.A.Semi which Apple acquired to make
>>> the Axx chips and all the huge performance boosts came from Digital. The
>>> head of P.A.Semi was one of the lead desigtners for both StromgARM and
>>> Alpha projects at Digital.
>> 
>> People change jobs all the time.
>> 
>> The chief designer of Windows NT was the the former designer of VMS
>> 
> 
> Cutler was "a" designer of VMS, but not "the" designer of it, former or
> otherwise. He did evidently lead the team creating NT, although the
> Microsofties kind of took the silk purse he had worked on and made a
> sow's ear out of it.

Yes. He designed the file system properly and they grafted the 1970's drive
letter bollocks onto it.

-- 
Tim

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#132894 — Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]

FromAlan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
Date2020-06-24 10:02 -0400
SubjectRe: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]
Message-ID<b2JIG.11495$bQ4.6818@fx04.iad>
In reply to#132873
On 2020-06-22 20:20, JF Mezei wrote:
> On 2020-06-22 20:03, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2020-06-22 4:43 p.m., JF Mezei wrote:
>>> On 2020-06-22 16:29, nospam wrote:
>>>
>>>> it's much more than 'arm-based chips'.
>>>
>>>   From the compiler's point of view, the code that runs on the CPU is ARM.
>>
>> Which doesn't make chips designed by Apple any less "Apple silicon" than
>> running Intel's instruction set makes AMD's chips.
> 
> I never implied such.  The fact remains that Apple has implemneted the
> ARM architecture and as such, the code that runs in the CPU runs the ARM
> instruction set, as generated by the compiler.  

See my other reply.  Apple's architecture very likely has extended 
instructions and thus "the compiler" and/or assembler has to be Apple's 
- not ARM's.

Such would be key to Apple getting the most out of their designs in 
their high principle of hardware/software integration.

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#132875 — Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]

FromArlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com>
Date2020-06-23 04:51 +0000
SubjectRe: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]
Message-ID<rcs1oq$28t$1@news.mixmin.net>
In reply to#132870
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 19:43:50 -0400, JF Mezei wrote:

> What is interersting is that Apple didn't use the word ARM today.  And
> Apple hasn't finalized how it will name the chips either.

Hi JF Mezei,

I _love_ a logical, sensible, reasonable thinker, with adult cognition.

Again, thank you for _not_ being a sadistic duplicitous cultist like the
Type I apologist nospam often is, and specifically for not being a
psychopathic brain-dead cultist like the Type III apologist Alan Baker is.

IMHO, it's clear that the word "ARM" didn't show up for a very good reason.
o One word... MARKETING

More specifically, IMHO, it's what Apple MARKETING is brilliant at doing:
o *Product Differentiation*

Q: Is your new A14 chip architecture ARM based Tim Cook?
A: No. It's not ARM-based; it's better - it's "_Apple Silicon_(TM)!".
-- 
HINT: It's arm based, no matter what Apple MARKETING wants you to call it.

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#132895 — Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]

FromAlan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
Date2020-06-24 10:04 -0400
SubjectRe: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]
Message-ID<X3JIG.11496$bQ4.138@fx04.iad>
In reply to#132870
On 2020-06-22 19:43, JF Mezei wrote:
> On 2020-06-22 16:29, nospam wrote:
> 
>> it's much more than 'arm-based chips'.
> 
>  From the compiler's point of view, the code that runs on the CPU is ARM.

What nospam was referring to is the particular architecture of Apple's 
chips which are structured with specialized CPU's for some tasks.  (ie: 
some focused on performance and some focused on lower power background, 
the neural engine, etc.).

I doubt very much an ARM compiler/assembler would compile Apple's code 
for their chips.  Apple have surely added, modified and extended 
instructions in the machine set.  They can "get away with this" because 
they don't need to publish this to anyone for compatibility.  And before 
you go there, this is likely agreed to by ARM as long as Apple keep 
their extensions to themselves - even if Apple risk some "collision" 
with future official ARM instruction updates that aren't compatible. 
With strict configuration control, even this can be handled over the 
long haul.

As the Apple chip evolution carries on, the desktop/laptop chip family 
will evolve to be more appropriate to those environments (more focus on 
performance than power consumption compared to the phones/pads, etc.).

<corrects mis-reply to nospam's post>

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#132876 — Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]

FromArlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com>
Date2020-06-23 05:01 +0000
SubjectRe: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]
Message-ID<rcs2c3$3gj$1@news.mixmin.net>
In reply to#132865
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 16:29:28 -0400, nospam wrote:

Hi nospam,

> if only you would get a brain transplant.

The only way you _can_ respond to facts you don't like (such as the fact
Apple is transitioning the Mac to ARM-based chips), is to act like a child 
(which you just did, again).

As such, you're incapable of an adult discussion, nospam.
o On the Windows ng you & Alan Baker get your head handed to you.

You can only survive on Apple newsgroups...
o Because the bar is so low on Apple ngs for actual facts, IMHO.

> it's much more than 'arm-based chips'.

You don't see any facts - all you _can_ see, is the silly MARKETING.
o You can only see what your cultist mentality allows you to see.

*You are utterly blind to the fact Apple is licensing ARM technology*.
-- 
Apple apologists are blind to facts because they're a cultist mentality.

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#132866 — Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]

FromAlan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no>
Date2020-06-22 14:03 -0700
SubjectRe: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]
Message-ID<rcr6bk$i72$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#132864
On 2020-06-22 12:50 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 02:38:27 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:
> 
>>    "Apple Inc. is preparing to announce a shift to its own main
>>     processors in Mac computers, replacing chips from Intel Corp.,
>>     as early as this month at its annual developer conference,
>>     according to people familiar with the plans."
> 
> Hi J.F. Mezei,
> 
> The announcement of the plans happened today... for real.
> 
> o *Apple launches Arm-based Mac chips*
> <https://www.cnet.com/news/wwdc-2020-apple-launches-arm-based-mac-chips-ios-14-ipados-14-macos-big-sur-and-more/>
>   "the big news was Apple's highly anticipated move to Arm-based chips"
> 
> o *Apple gives Macs a brain transplant with new Arm chips*
> <https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-gives-macs-a-brain-transplant-with-new-arm-chips/>
>    "The Mac is transitioning" to ARM-based chips, said Tim Cook.
>    [Tim Cook calls it "Apple Silicon" but that's just a clever
>     MARKETING term, for reasons known to Apple and which can be
>     easily guessed why they don't want to call it "ARM-based chips",
>     which is what it is.

In the sense that the original architecture was developed by ARM many 
years ago.

Not in any sense does ARM design Apple's CPUs.

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#132867 — Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]

FromYour Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date2020-06-23 09:47 +1200
SubjectRe: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]
Message-ID<rcr8st$c8b$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#132866
On 2020-06-22 21:03:47 +0000, Alan Baker said:
> On 2020-06-22 12:50 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
>> On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 02:38:27 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:
>>> 
>>> "Apple Inc. is preparing to announce a shift to its own main
>>> processors in Mac computers, replacing chips from Intel Corp.,
>>> as early as this month at its annual developer conference,
>>> according to people familiar with the plans."
>> 
>> Hi J.F. Mezei,
>> 
>> The announcement of the plans happened today... for real.
>> 
>> o *Apple launches Arm-based Mac chips*
>> <https://www.cnet.com/news/wwdc-2020-apple-launches-arm-based-mac-chips-ios-14-ipados-14-macos-big-sur-and-more/> 
>> 
>> "the big news was Apple's highly anticipated move to Arm-based chips"
>> 
>> o *Apple gives Macs a brain transplant with new Arm chips*
>> <https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-gives-macs-a-brain-transplant-with-new-arm-chips/> 
>> 
>> "The Mac is transitioning" to ARM-based chips, said Tim Cook.
>> [Tim Cook calls it "Apple Silicon" but that's just a clever
>> MARKETING term, for reasons known to Apple and which can be
>> easily guessed why they don't want to call it "ARM-based chips",
>> which is what it is.
> 
> In the sense that the original architecture was developed by ARM many 
> years ago.
> 
> Not in any sense does ARM design Apple's CPUs.

It's the other way around - Apple designs ARM-based chips.

But, yes, ARM did design Apple chips. ARM was started by the UK company 
Acorn in 1985, but Apple joined project in 1990 for chips to use in the 
Newton PDA.
<https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/epic/arm/8243162/History-of-ARM-from-Acorn-to-Apple.html> 

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#132869 — Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]

FromAlan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no>
Date2020-06-22 15:33 -0700
SubjectRe: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]
Message-ID<rcrbjf$p11$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#132867
On 2020-06-22 2:47 p.m., Your Name wrote:
> On 2020-06-22 21:03:47 +0000, Alan Baker said:
>> On 2020-06-22 12:50 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
>>> On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 02:38:27 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "Apple Inc. is preparing to announce a shift to its own main
>>>> processors in Mac computers, replacing chips from Intel Corp.,
>>>> as early as this month at its annual developer conference,
>>>> according to people familiar with the plans."
>>>
>>> Hi J.F. Mezei,
>>>
>>> The announcement of the plans happened today... for real.
>>>
>>> o *Apple launches Arm-based Mac chips*
>>> <https://www.cnet.com/news/wwdc-2020-apple-launches-arm-based-mac-chips-ios-14-ipados-14-macos-big-sur-and-more/> 
>>>
>>> "the big news was Apple's highly anticipated move to Arm-based chips"
>>>
>>> o *Apple gives Macs a brain transplant with new Arm chips*
>>> <https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-gives-macs-a-brain-transplant-with-new-arm-chips/> 
>>>
>>> "The Mac is transitioning" to ARM-based chips, said Tim Cook.
>>> [Tim Cook calls it "Apple Silicon" but that's just a clever
>>> MARKETING term, for reasons known to Apple and which can be
>>> easily guessed why they don't want to call it "ARM-based chips",
>>> which is what it is.
>>
>> In the sense that the original architecture was developed by ARM many 
>> years ago.
>>
>> Not in any sense does ARM design Apple's CPUs.
> 
> It's the other way around - Apple designs ARM-based chips.
> 
> But, yes, ARM did design Apple chips. ARM was started by the UK company 
> Acorn in 1985, but Apple joined project in 1990 for chips to use in the 
> Newton PDA.
> <https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/epic/arm/8243162/History-of-ARM-from-Acorn-to-Apple.html> 
> 
> 

"Did"? Of course.

:-)

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#132877 — Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]

FromArlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com>
Date2020-06-23 16:02 +0000
SubjectRe: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]
Message-ID<rct924$nbl$1@news.mixmin.net>
In reply to#132867
On Tue, 23 Jun 2020 09:47:11 +1200, Your Name wrote:

> It's the other way around - Apple designs ARM-based chips.

While Apple is apparently trying to get us to use the MARKETING term, 
"Apple Silicon(TM)", here are more related snippets in the news today...

o *Apple's first ARM-based Mac will be available later this year*
<https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/22/21295475/apple-mac-processors-arm-silicon-chips-wwdc-2020>
  "It's a big move that means macOS will support native iOS apps 
   and macOS apps side by side"

o *Do Apple's new Mac chips mean ARM has won?*
<https://www.engadget.com/apple-arm-upscaled-123033144.html>
  "ARM underpins pretty much every smartphone and mobile device 
   in the world, but in the last 15 years it has struggled to 
   gain traction in high performance computing."

o *This is Apple's roadmap for moving the first Macs away from Intel*
<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/06/this-is-apples-roadmap-for-moving-the-first-macs-away-from-intel/>
  "Longtime Apple users have been through all this before, with the 
   transition from PowerPC to Intel and now for Intel x86 to ARM. 
   All the big platform transition hits are coming back. 
   The transition to ARM from x86 means that some Mac apps will be native
   and some won't. For apps that support both x86 and ARM, Apple is
   introducing the "Universal 2" binary that will package both codebases 
   together. For apps that haven't made the transition to ARM yet, 
   the Rosetta emulator is back as "Rosetta 2" and will now let x86 apps
   run on your ARM Mac, albeit with reduced performance."
-- 
Bringing TRUTH to Apple newsgroups by consistent application of fact.

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#132878 — Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]

FromDavid Sankey <David.Sankey@stfc.ac.uk>
Date2020-06-23 18:28 +0100
SubjectRe: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]
Message-ID<rcte46$ve6$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#132877
On 23/06/2020 17:02, Arlen Holder wrote:
> o *Do Apple's new Mac chips mean ARM has won?*
> <https://www.engadget.com/apple-arm-upscaled-123033144.html>
>    "ARM underpins pretty much every smartphone and mobile device
>     in the world, but in the last 15 years it has struggled to
>     gain traction in high performance computing."

Which is why ARM is the processor core in the fastest HPC system in the 
world, besting the second place system by a factor 2.8?

<https://www.top500.org>

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#132902 — Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]

FromAlan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
Date2020-06-24 10:50 -0400
SubjectRe: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]
Message-ID<WKJIG.26648$hQ4.9489@fx39.iad>
In reply to#132878
On 2020-06-23 13:28, David Sankey wrote:
> On 23/06/2020 17:02, Arlen Holder wrote:
>> o *Do Apple's new Mac chips mean ARM has won?*
>> <https://www.engadget.com/apple-arm-upscaled-123033144.html>
>>    "ARM underpins pretty much every smartphone and mobile device
>>     in the world, but in the last 15 years it has struggled to
>>     gain traction in high performance computing."
> 
> Which is why ARM is the processor **** core **** in the fastest HPC system in the 
> world, besting the second place system by a factor 2.8?
> 
> <https://www.top500.org>

**** Plural.  Big plural.

Folding@Home beats the above, by the way, at over 2.4 exaflops back in 
mid April ... mainly GPU's and CPU's under Windows, MacOS and Linux.  It 
would be more, but the researchers are having trouble generating enough 
work for the network...

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#132906 — Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]

FromArlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com>
Date2020-06-24 15:22 +0000
SubjectRe: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]
Message-ID<rcvr45$c7h$1@news.mixmin.net>
In reply to#132902
On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:50:29 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:

> Folding@Home beats the above, by the way, at over 2.4 exaflops back in 
> mid April ... mainly GPU's and CPU's under Windows, MacOS and Linux.  It 
> would be more, but the researchers are having trouble generating enough 
> work for the network...

Hi Alan Browne,

Any logical reasonable person would ask "Why transition to ARM Macs?"

More and more, as I see posts from you, Alan Browne, I wonder if you're a
Type II apologist, or a normal person, as your post above, and a few others
in this thread, appear to come from a normal person (kudos to you).

Your posts in this thread are completely devoid of apologists' idiocies.

As you reasonably and logically noted with respect to performance, what's
important for an adult discussion is _why_ Apple is "transitioning" to the
ARM Mac from the Intel Mac.

There will always be two sides of the answer to that question:
o What Apple "claims" is the real reason, and, 
o What the real reason really is.

I'm not hinting that Apple isn't claiming their real reason, since I don't
know their real reason, but any logical sensible adult would look at both.

Lord knows, Apple claimed the batteries made them do it, telling Congress
that throttling on the iPhone 8 and iPhone X wasn't "as" necessary, and
yet, Apple has throttled more and more iPhones in every iOS since iOS 10
when they made that claim... and Apple admitted they secretly throttled on
purpose to lower the life of the iPhone (and they paid a criminal fine for
that admission of guilt), so my point is that what Apple "says" is not
always the case.

Hence any logical reasonable person would ask "Why transition to ARM Macs?"
-- 
I'm not sure why but I'll keep my eyes & ears tuned to WHY the ARM Mac,
starting first with Apple MARKETING claims, and then looking about for the
real reason (if it differs, which, unfortunately, often it does).

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#132907 — Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]

FromDavid Sankey <David.Sankey@stfc.ac.uk>
Date2020-06-24 17:36 +0100
SubjectRe: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]
Message-ID<rcvvfb$e5n$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#132902
On 24/06/2020 15:50, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2020-06-23 13:28, David Sankey wrote:
>> On 23/06/2020 17:02, Arlen Holder wrote:
>>> o *Do Apple's new Mac chips mean ARM has won?*
>>> <https://www.engadget.com/apple-arm-upscaled-123033144.html>
>>>    "ARM underpins pretty much every smartphone and mobile device
>>>     in the world, but in the last 15 years it has struggled to
>>>     gain traction in high performance computing."
>>
>> Which is why ARM is the processor **** core **** in the fastest HPC 
>> system in the world, besting the second place system by a factor 2.8?
>>
>> <https://www.top500.org>
> 
> **** Plural.  Big plural.

HPC has been plural ever since the beginning of Cray in the 1980's with 
multiple vector processors, it's only ever been a question of how big - 
what you see today is ARM up against GPU.

> Folding@Home beats the above, by the way, at over 2.4 exaflops back in 
> mid April ... mainly GPU's and CPU's under Windows, MacOS and Linux.  It 
> would be more, but the researchers are having trouble generating enough 
> work for the network...

Folding@Home includes the above, certainly the bulk of the academic HPC 
and compute farms.  The Windows and MacOS tend to be real people, you 
see the farms turning up under Linux (hence the disparity in GPU to CPU 
numbers, as there are a lot of big CPU farms out there).

D

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#132880 — Re: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]

FromAlan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no>
Date2020-06-23 14:48 -0700
SubjectRe: Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC [ARM, TSMC, 5nm, A14]
Message-ID<rcttbb$888$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#132877
On 2020-06-23 9:02 a.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Jun 2020 09:47:11 +1200, Your Name wrote:
> 
>> It's the other way around - Apple designs ARM-based chips.
> 
> While Apple is apparently trying to get us to use the MARKETING term,
> "Apple Silicon(TM)", here are more related snippets in the news today...

It is Apple silicon, Arlen.

They design the chips.

> 
> o *Apple's first ARM-based Mac will be available later this year*
> <https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/22/21295475/apple-mac-processors-arm-silicon-chips-wwdc-2020>
>    "It's a big move that means macOS will support native iOS apps
>     and macOS apps side by side"
> 
> o *Do Apple's new Mac chips mean ARM has won?*
> <https://www.engadget.com/apple-arm-upscaled-123033144.html>
>    "ARM underpins pretty much every smartphone and mobile device
>     in the world, but in the last 15 years it has struggled to
>     gain traction in high performance computing."
> 
> o *This is Apple's roadmap for moving the first Macs away from Intel*
> <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/06/this-is-apples-roadmap-for-moving-the-first-macs-away-from-intel/>
>    "Longtime Apple users have been through all this before, with the
>     transition from PowerPC to Intel and now for Intel x86 to ARM.
>     All the big platform transition hits are coming back.
>     The transition to ARM from x86 means that some Mac apps will be native
>     and some won't. For apps that support both x86 and ARM, Apple is
>     introducing the "Universal 2" binary that will package both codebases
>     together. For apps that haven't made the transition to ARM yet,
>     the Rosetta emulator is back as "Rosetta 2" and will now let x86 apps
>     run on your ARM Mac, albeit with reduced performance."
> 

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#132964

FromArlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com>
Date2020-06-26 02:27 +0000
Message-ID<rd3mem$lop$1@news.mixmin.net>
In reply to#132814
UPDATE: (one person's suggestion why Apple is creating the ARM Mac)

o An ex-Intel engineer claims to know why Apple went in-house 
  for the future of Mac processors
<https://www.notebookcheck.net/An-ex-Intel-engineer-claims-to-know-why-Apple-went-in-house-for-the-future-of-Mac-processors.477473.0.html>

  "This famously straight-talking source is the company's former principal
   engineer, François Piednoel. He claims that Apple found fault with
   various aspects of Skylake's architecture to such an extent the OEM 
   was ultimately driven to start making its own processors instead."
-- 
"These indications remain the opinions of just one engineer, albeit one
with an in-depth knowledge of Intel and its (currently terminated)
relationship with the Cupertino giant."

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