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iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me

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  iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2014-01-18 12:11 -0600
    Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-18 13:18 -0500
      Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Ed Anson <EdAnson@comcast.net> - 2014-01-18 16:38 -0500
        Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-01-18 16:19 -0600
        Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-01-18 14:28 -0800
          Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Ed Anson <EdAnson@comcast.net> - 2014-01-18 19:45 -0500
            Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2014-01-19 00:06 -0500
              Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Ed Anson <EdAnson@comcast.net> - 2014-01-19 20:04 -0500
            Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2014-01-19 15:29 -0600
              Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-19 16:43 -0500
                Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-01-19 18:14 -0500
                  Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-19 18:41 -0500
                    Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-01-19 19:50 -0500
                Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2014-01-19 20:55 -0600
                  Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2014-01-19 23:42 -0500
                    Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-19 22:23 -0700
                    Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-20 12:45 -0800
                  Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-19 22:21 -0700
                    Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-01-19 23:19 -0800
                      Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-01-20 02:52 -0500
                        Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-01-21 01:44 +1300
                        Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-20 08:27 -0700
                      Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-20 04:00 -0500
                      Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-20 08:33 -0700
                        Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-01-20 08:51 -0800
                        Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-22 09:05 +0000
              Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2014-01-19 18:32 -0500
                Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-19 22:24 -0700
                  Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2014-01-20 02:14 -0500
                    Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-20 08:21 -0700
                Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-01-20 15:42 -0600
              Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-22 08:59 +0000
        Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-20 12:43 -0800
    Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-18 10:21 -0800
      Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-01-18 15:55 -0500
        Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-20 12:38 -0800
      Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2014-01-18 16:41 -0600
    Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-01-18 16:16 -0600

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#55050

JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> On 14-01-20 02:19, Michael Vilain wrote:
> > iCloud has been known to throw out mail which contained certain keywords
> > without telling the mail sender it was doing this.
> 
> 
> Out of curiosioty, how does iCloud provide emails ?

It only does that if your Apple ID is in in the icloud.com domain
(including mac.com and me.com addresses which automatically gained an
icloud.com alias).

If the Apple ID you are using for iCloud is in any other domain, then
iCloud doesn't supply you with any e-mail service and you need to use a
separate provider.

> If my appleID is jdoe@chocolate.ca , and the MX record for chocolate.ca
> points to a non Apple server, how can Apple get those emails and apply
> its puranical standards to delete emails it doesn't like ?

It can't.

> Or does iCloud provide a new email address such as jdoe@icloud.com and
> it is only if you use that email address that you get Apple's content
> filtering ?

No. You could create another Apple ID in the icloud.com domain, but that
would be separate to your Apple ID in the chocolate.ca domain, and if
both were used for iCloud, then they would be independent iCloud
accounts (one with iCloud-hosted e-mail and one without).

> If I upgrade to Mavericks from Snow Leopard, will Mail.App which gets
> emails from my own IMAP server start to allow iCloud to send "delete"
> command to my IMAP server via Mail.App ?

Mail.app might send "delete" commands to your IMAP server, but that has
nothing to do with iCloud, just Mail's own IMAP account support.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#55052

In article <52dcd5ad$0$10220$c3e8da3$9b4ff22a@news.astraweb.com>, JF
Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> > iCloud has been known to throw out mail which contained certain keywords 
> > without telling the mail sender it was doing this.
> 
> 
> Out of curiosioty, how does iCloud provide emails ?
> 
> If my appleID is jdoe@chocolate.ca , and the MX record for chocolate.ca
> points to a non Apple server, how can Apple get those emails and apply
> its puranical standards to delete emails it doesn't like ?

It won't affect that.

> Or does iCloud provide a new email address such as jdoe@icloud.com and
> it is only if you use that email address that you get Apple's content
> filtering ?

Yes, if there is indeed such filtering.

> If I upgrade to Mavericks from Snow Leopard, will Mail.App which gets
> emails from my own IMAP server start to allow iCloud to send "delete"
> command to my IMAP server via Mail.App ?

No.

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#55044

In article <vilain-B8174A.23190119012014@news.individual.net>, Michael
Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:

> I turned off all iCloud services after attempting to use iCloud to sync 
> to Google Contacts, which it won't do. I'm still looking for a solution 
> for that.  It DOUBLED all my contacts.  Once I removed iCloud sync, 
> everything went back to local files.  I just had to weed out the 
> duplicates by hand.

that's a well known bug. 

it's not a malicious attempt by apple to corrupt your data.

> iCloud has been known to throw out mail which contained certain keywords 
> without telling the mail sender it was doing this.  This has nothing to 
> do with junk or spam filtering.  They're just taking all email with the 
> keywords "barely legal teen" and throwing them away. That's a violation 
> of the Mail RFCs.  But the fact that they can do this and, in fact, 
> already are doing it is spelled out in their T&Cs.

that's just aggressive spam filtering.

it is also not a violation of anything, especially since it's disclosed
in the tos.

all isps have spam filtering that filters out a variety of keywords
(along with other methods). if they didn't, you'd be overrun with all
sorts of crap ranging from barely legal teens to not legal teens and
quite a bit more.

you also don't have to use icloud for mail.

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#55053

In article <vilain-B8174A.23190119012014@news.individual.net>, Michael
Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:

> iCloud has been known to throw out mail which contained certain keywords 
> without telling the mail sender it was doing this.  This has nothing to 
> do with junk or spam filtering.  They're just taking all email with the 
> keywords "barely legal teen" and throwing them away. That's a violation 
> of the Mail RFCs.  But the fact that they can do this and, in fact, 
> already are doing it is spelled out in their T&Cs.
> 
> <http://www.macworld.com/article/2029570/silent-email-filtering-makes-icl
> oud-an-unreliable-option.html>

I just tried an experiment.  I sent two emails, one from my iCloud
account, and one to it.  Both had the subject "Barely legal teens" and
the content "I hope that no one ever makes a movie titled Barely Legal
Teens.  It would be in poor taste."

Both went through.

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#55054

In article <200120140833308728%michelle@michelle.org>,
 Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> In article <vilain-B8174A.23190119012014@news.individual.net>, Michael
> Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
> 
> > iCloud has been known to throw out mail which contained certain keywords 
> > without telling the mail sender it was doing this.  This has nothing to 
> > do with junk or spam filtering.  They're just taking all email with the 
> > keywords "barely legal teen" and throwing them away. That's a violation 
> > of the Mail RFCs.  But the fact that they can do this and, in fact, 
> > already are doing it is spelled out in their T&Cs.
> > 
> > <http://www.macworld.com/article/2029570/silent-email-filtering-makes-icl
> > oud-an-unreliable-option.html>
> 
> I just tried an experiment.  I sent two emails, one from my iCloud
> account, and one to it.  Both had the subject "Barely legal teens" and
> the content "I hope that no one ever makes a movie titled Barely Legal
> Teens.  It would be in poor taste."
> 
> Both went through.

Also note that the filtering happened last March or thereabouts. Without 
comment, Apple obviously fixed it.  

Crapcast would do weird things with their email too. For the longest 
time, I couldn't post to a private email LISTSERV because Crapcast just 
didn't deliver my emails.  No bounce, they just ate them. I started 
using Gmail which never had a problem until I switched to AT&T and now I 
can send directly to my LISTSERV again.

I don't know if others still have the Crapcast problem. I took over 
admin of the list and try to get participants to use Gmail.  It just 
works.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

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#55188

In message <200120140833308728%michelle@michelle.org> 
  Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> In article <vilain-B8174A.23190119012014@news.individual.net>, Michael
> Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:

>> iCloud has been known to throw out mail which contained certain keywords 
>> without telling the mail sender it was doing this.  This has nothing to 
>> do with junk or spam filtering.  They're just taking all email with the 
>> keywords "barely legal teen" and throwing them away. That's a violation 
>> of the Mail RFCs.  But the fact that they can do this and, in fact, 
>> already are doing it is spelled out in their T&Cs.
>> 
>> <http://www.macworld.com/article/2029570/silent-email-filtering-makes-icl
>> oud-an-unreliable-option.html>

> I just tried an experiment.  I sent two emails, one from my iCloud
> account, and one to it.  Both had the subject "Barely legal teens" and
> the content "I hope that no one ever makes a movie titled Barely Legal
> Teens.  It would be in poor taste."

> Both went through.

There was an issue with some filters on mac.com or icloud.com email that
was dropping certain mails that hit some sort of anti-porn filter.

-- 
"I am" is reportedly the shortest sentence in the English language.
Could it be that "I do" is the longest sentence?

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#55007

On 1/19/14, 4:29 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 19:45:34 -0500, Ed Anson <EdAnson@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> For many people, iCloud is probably the best way to handle syncing,
>> because it is trivial to set up. But some of us prefer to keep our
>> important and/or private information out of the cloud. It's not just a
>> matter of privacy. Control is also a concern. Some information is
>> important enough to me that I must insist on controlling it myself. No
>> matter what anyone says, if it's in the cloud I don't control it.
>
> That is correct.  And recent court decisions basically defeating net
> neutrality will make it even more correct as time goes on.  My case
> is exactly an example of this:  Apple, in their infinite pissiness,
> decided they owned my data instead of me owning it.  If I wasn't going
> to play ball by their rules, they were going to take my ball and go
> home.
>
> This is an evil action on their part.  Generally I am pro-Apple (heck, I
> have been using Macs exclusively since 1986) in terms of their product
> design.  But Apple, along with Google and the rest of Big Data, has
> simply become too big for their boots and now are overreaching in a
> spectacular fashion.  Backing up one's data is a good idea for a variety
> of reasons, but wilfull destruction of your data by a computer vendor
> shuld not be a reason to have to back up.
>
When I went to 10.8 from 10.4, the setup process prodded me to activate 
iCloud.  I did so, so I'd have the option of using it after I'd looked 
into it.  I clicked "no" for each kind of file I might want uploaded.

When I looked into it, I decided to deactivate it.  It scared me off by 
telling me that it would delete personal files from my hard drive. 
After I looked into it, I decided it wasn't true and deactivated it. 
That false scare, to discourage me from deactivating my account, has 
left me mistrustful.

I see it's possible to sync locally, but the software could cost more 
than $100.

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#55035

In article <lbhnap$etl$1@dont-email.me>, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com>
wrote:

> When I looked into it, I decided to deactivate it.  It scared me off by 
> telling me that it would delete personal files from my hard drive. 

Did it say from your hard drive or from your computer?

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#55041

On 1/20/14, 12:24 AM, Michelle Steiner wrote:
> In article <lbhnap$etl$1@dont-email.me>, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
>
>> When I looked into it, I decided to deactivate it.  It scared me off by
>> telling me that it would delete personal files from my hard drive.
>
> Did it say from your hard drive or from your computer?
>
It probably said my computer.

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#55051

In article <lbiibs$5s9$1@dont-email.me>, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com>
wrote:

> On 1/20/14, 12:24 AM, Michelle Steiner wrote:
> > In article <lbhnap$etl$1@dont-email.me>, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> When I looked into it, I decided to deactivate it.  It scared me off by
> >> telling me that it would delete personal files from my hard drive.
> >
> > Did it say from your hard drive or from your computer?
> >
> It probably said my computer.

That's essentially the same as disconnecting a hard drive; the files
are deleted from the computer, but they're still on the hard drive. 
Plug the drive back in and the files are back on your computer.

Reconnect iCloud and the files are back on your computer.

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#55091

In article <lbhnap$etl$1@dont-email.me>, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> 
wrote:

> When I went to 10.8 from 10.4, the setup process prodded me to activate 
> iCloud.  I did so, so I'd have the option of using it after I'd looked 
> into it.  I clicked "no" for each kind of file I might want uploaded.
> 

That's a worse jump than what I had to make to use an iPad, but I did 
find a use for iCloud. Note: ONE use.  Because of the way Mail is set up 
on my iPad, I can receive but not send away from my home ISP, so I set 
up an iCloud account for those times.  It even has a weird(compared to 
my other e-mail accounts) name.  I'm apparently not going to ever be 
able to get a newer iPad because it seems they can't be purchased 
without the mucky iOS 7 pre-installed.

-- 
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist

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#55187

In message <slrnldogt0.n69.timmcn@sugaree.local> 
  Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 19:45:34 -0500, Ed Anson <EdAnson@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> For many people, iCloud is probably the best way to handle syncing, 
>> because it is trivial to set up. But some of us prefer to keep our 
>> important and/or private information out of the cloud. It's not just a 
>> matter of privacy. Control is also a concern. Some information is 
>> important enough to me that I must insist on controlling it myself. No 
>> matter what anyone says, if it's in the cloud I don't control it.

> That is correct.  And recent court decisions basically defeating net 
> neutrality will make it even more correct as time goes on.  My case 
> is exactly an example of this:  Apple, in their infinite pissiness, 
> decided they owned my data instead of me owning it.  If I wasn't going 
> to play ball by their rules, they were going to take my ball and go 
> home.

Of the many dumb things you've said, this might be the dumbest.

-- 
'Listen,' said Rincewind. 'It's all over, do you see? You can't put the
spells back in the book, you can't unsay what's been said, you can't-'
'You can try!' --The Light Fantastic

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#55074

Ed Anson <EdAnson@comcast.net> writes:

> On 1/18/14 1:18 PM, nospam wrote:
> > you can use os x server on another mac to sync without using icloud.
> 
> Indeed. That is the work-around that I will be implementing. Isn't it
> ironic, though, that the "free" upgrade to Mavericks will be costing
> me the hundreds of dollars for that other Mac just to replace
> functionality Apple has otherwise removed?

I'm not sure that truly qualifies as irony.

But I'm also not sure why your cost is hundreds of dollars.  You can
install a free CalDAV server on your existing desktop.  Assuming you
have an existing desktop - if you don't, I don't know what the issue
is.

E.g.  https://discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-6311

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#54892

Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> writes:

> So, since installing Mavericks my calendar information doesn't sync.  
> Turns out that this stuff is only synced now through iCloud, not through 
> a local connection between the iOS device and the Mac.  WTF is that 
> about, other than forcing people to use the crap service that is 
> iCloud???
> 
> So, I tried.  Six hours of Calendar spinning a progress bar with zero 
> internet activity happening on my router, I pulled the plug on the 
> process.  Apple then promptly deleted years worth of calendar.  WTF is 
> wrong with Apple that they think that under ANY conditions they have the 
> right to delete ANY data from MY computer?  Assholes!  Apple has always 
> had an less than ideal relationship with its customers due to Steve 
> Jobs's arrognce being part of the corporate culture, but this is the 
> first time IME that they have totally sucked.
> 
> Unless I find a workaround, this may be the deal killer for Apple and 
> me.  Since my computer contains confidential information covered under 
> HIPAA about hundreds of clients, I am very limited in my ability to use 
> cloud computing since data security cannot be reasonably guaranteed.
> 
> Anyone know a local workaround for syncing calendars between Mac and iOS 
> locally?

Fortunately you have your calendar data backed up since if any local
data is valuable enough to infuriate you if you accidentally delete
it, you would have it backed up.

As far as local solutions,  I don't know if any.  You can sync Apple's
calendar with other cloud solutions (Google, Exchange, Yahoo, etc.) as
well as any CalDav server.

So if you are truly committed to a local server, you could install a
CalDav server on your Mac.

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#54898

On 14-01-18 13:21, Doug Anderson wrote:

> So if you are truly committed to a local server, you could install a
> CalDav server on your Mac.


And how does the iPhone sync with a Caldav server ?

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#55072

JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> writes:

> On 14-01-18 13:21, Doug Anderson wrote:
> 
> > So if you are truly committed to a local server, you could install a
> > CalDav server on your Mac.
> 
> 
> And how does the iPhone sync with a Caldav server ?

Well, I'd try

Settings -> Mail, COntacts, Calendars -> Other -> Add CalDAV Account.

But maybe that option is just there as an attempt to fool us.

Not, I hasten to add, that I'm recommending the OP install a CalDAV
server on his desktop, but he could.

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#54923

On 18 Jan 2014 10:21:14 -0800, Doug Anderson 
<ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So if you are truly committed to a local server, you could install a 
> CalDav server on your Mac.

Thank you, that is a helpful comment.  I will look into that.

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#54914

In article <slrnldlguj.m4b.timmcn@sugaree.local>,
 Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:

> Anyone know a local workaround for syncing calendars between Mac and iOS 
> locally?

I just haven't "up"dated that far 8-)

-- 
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist

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