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probing USB

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  probing USB me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2014-08-21 18:04 +0000
    Re: probing USB Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-08-21 11:09 -0700
      Re: probing USB me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2014-08-21 18:16 +0000
        Re: probing USB Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-08-21 11:17 -0700
          Re: probing USB me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2014-08-21 18:31 +0000
        Re: probing USB John Albert <j.albert@snet.net> - 2014-08-21 20:58 -0400
          Re: probing USB J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2014-08-22 13:09 -0400
            Re: probing USB me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2014-08-22 18:27 +0000
              Re: probing USB nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-08-22 14:44 -0400
              Re: probing USB John Albert <j.albert@snet.net> - 2014-08-23 11:52 -0400
                Re: probing USB me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2014-08-23 23:17 +0000
          Re: probing USB billy@MIX.COM - 2014-08-22 21:03 +0000
    Re: probing USB nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-08-21 14:12 -0400
    Re: probing USB Darrin "Doc" O'Leary  <droleary@1usenet2014.subsume.com> - 2014-08-21 20:15 +0000
    Re: Probing USB me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2015-02-08 16:20 +0000
    Re: probing USB Frank <gno52@windstream.net> - 2015-02-10 02:15 -0800

#63409 — probing USB

Every so often my iMac running 10.9.4 slows to a crawl. When this 
happens it also has USB problems; i.e. thumb drives will spontaneously 
unmount and my scanner will disconnect mid-scan. 

Resetting the SMC fixes it all up, but then it starts happening again 
after a few days or a week.

I have 5 USB devices permanently connected through two hubs, and 3-4 
more that get plugged in occasionally. Disconnecting all USB devices and 
reconnecting them one by one will help me determine which device may be 
causing the problem, but that is tedious and could take weeks.

Is there a way of probing the USB to determine which USB device may be 
causing the problem? I downloaded USB Prober from Apple but I don't 
know how to use it or even if it can help me with this.

Thanks.

-- 
K.

Lang may your lum reek.

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#63410

On 2014-08-21 18:04:18 +0000, Király said:

> Every so often my iMac running 10.9.4 slows to a crawl. When this
> happens it also has USB problems; i.e. thumb drives will spontaneously
> unmount and my scanner will disconnect mid-scan.
> 
> Resetting the SMC fixes it all up, but then it starts happening again
> after a few days or a week.
> 
> I have 5 USB devices permanently connected through two hubs, and 3-4
> more that get plugged in occasionally. Disconnecting all USB devices and
> reconnecting them one by one will help me determine which device may be
> causing the problem, but that is tedious and could take weeks.
> 
> Is there a way of probing the USB to determine which USB device may be
> causing the problem? I downloaded USB Prober from Apple but I don't
> know how to use it or even if it can help me with this.
> 
> Thanks.

Well... ...there's simply the expedient of disconnecting the USB 
devices in question and seeing if any particular one makes a 
difference...

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#63412

Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> wrote:
> Well... ...there's simply the expedient of disconnecting the USB 
> devices in question and seeing if any particular one makes a 
> difference...

Yes, that of course would work, but it could take weeks of, for example, 
being without my printer. That's hardly "expedient", hence me looking 
into some sort of diagnostic utility. 

-- 
K.

Lang may your lum reek.

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#63413

On 2014-08-21 18:16:25 +0000, Király said:

> Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> wrote:
>> Well... ...there's simply the expedient of disconnecting the USB
>> devices in question and seeing if any particular one makes a
>> difference...
> 
> Yes, that of course would work, but it could take weeks of, for example,
> being without my printer. That's hardly "expedient", hence me looking
> into some sort of diagnostic utility.

"Weeks"?

How often does this problem manifest itself?

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#63414

Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> wrote:
> > Yes, that of course would work, but it could take weeks of, for example,
> > being without my printer. That's hardly "expedient", hence me looking
> > into some sort of diagnostic utility.
> 
> "Weeks"?
> 
> How often does this problem manifest itself?

It can take between one and three weeks between each reset of the SMU 
for the problem to reappear. It doesn't seem to start happening when I 
connect something new; it seems to just start happening spontaneously. 
Once it starts, multiple USB devices start to behave erratically until 
the SMU is reset again.

That's why disconnecting and reconnecting devices one by one could take 
weeks or even months to narrow down which device is causing it.

-- 
K.

Lang may your lum reek.

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#63422

On 8/21/14 2:16 PM, Király wrote:
> Yes, that of course would work, but it could take weeks of, for example,
> being without my printer. That's hardly "expedient", hence me looking
> into some sort of diagnostic utility.

The problem is that there aren't many USB "diagnostic tools" 
that I know of on the Mac (my knowledge may be limited).

I recall something that was (still is?) part of the Apple 
Developer Tools (I think) called "USB Probe".

But offhand, I can't think of anything else.

As mentioned above, sounds like with so many devices spread 
out via two hubs, you could be having problems with bus 
power or items "dropping off" the bus.

My guess -- and it's ONLY a "guess" -- is that you'll have 
to do some "trial and error" 
connecting/disconnecting/shuffling around to discover where 
the problem lies.

It could be one or more devices dropping off the bus due to 
USB bus power issues, or even a weak connecting cable.

You might even try shuffling some -cables- around.

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#63425

On 8/21/14, 8:58 PM, John Albert wrote:

> As mentioned above, sounds like with so many devices spread out via two
> hubs, you could be having problems with bus power or items "dropping
> off" the bus.
>
> My guess -- and it's ONLY a "guess" -- is that you'll have to do some
> "trial and error" connecting/disconnecting/shuffling around to discover
> where the problem lies.
>
> It could be one or more devices dropping off the bus due to USB bus
> power issues, or even a weak connecting cable.
>
If it happens every few weeks, it could be when two or more devices 
require a surge of current at the same time. I have a powered hub.  I 
don't use the wall wart, but it's there if I need it.

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#63426

J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> wrote:
> If it happens every few weeks, it could be when two or more devices 
> require a surge of current at the same time. I have a powered hub.  I 
> don't use the wall wart, but it's there if I need it.

I'm not so sure that is the case. I have a 4-port non-powered hub with 
four peripherals permanently connected. Each peripheral has its own 
power supply (printer, scanner, EyeTV, DVD drive). I also have a 7-port 
powered hub that only ever has low-power devices connected (iPod 
shuffle, mouse, various thumb drives) So I'm not so sure it's a power 
issue.

I'm more inclined to believe one my my peripherals is going bad and is 
doing something through the hub that is taking the whole system down, 
requiring an SMC reset. Or maybe one of the hubs itself is bad.

It looks like I will have to do this the long slow hard way by process 
of elimination. Thanks for the help everyone.

-- 
K.

Lang may your lum reek.

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#63427

In article <lt821p$pse$1@dont-email.me>, Király <me@home.spamsucks.ca>
wrote:

> > If it happens every few weeks, it could be when two or more devices 
> > require a surge of current at the same time. I have a powered hub.  I 
> > don't use the wall wart, but it's there if I need it.
> 
> I'm not so sure that is the case. I have a 4-port non-powered hub with 
> four peripherals permanently connected. Each peripheral has its own 
> power supply (printer, scanner, EyeTV, DVD drive). I also have a 7-port 
> powered hub that only ever has low-power devices connected (iPod 
> shuffle, mouse, various thumb drives) So I'm not so sure it's a power 
> issue.
> 
> I'm more inclined to believe one my my peripherals is going bad and is 
> doing something through the hub that is taking the whole system down, 
> requiring an SMC reset.

usb issues should never cause the smc to be reset. 

the problem could be something else entirely.

> Or maybe one of the hubs itself is bad.

could be.

hard to tell without further investigation.

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#63432

On 8/22/14 2:27 PM, Király wrote:
> I have a 4-port non-powered hub with
> four peripherals permanently connected.

The solution here is easy.

Replace the non-powered hub with a POWERED hub.

Then get back to us...

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#63435

John Albert <j.albert@snet.net> wrote:
> The solution here is easy.
> 
> Replace the non-powered hub with a POWERED hub.

Why would that make a difference when each device plugged into it has 
its own power supply?

-- 
K.

Lang may your lum reek.

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#63430

John Albert <j.albert@snet.net> writes:

> The problem is that there aren't many USB "diagnostic tools" 
> that I know of on the Mac (my knowledge may be limited).
> 
> I recall something that was (still is?) part of the Apple 
> Developer Tools (I think) called "USB Probe".

I also don't recall the exact name of this tool, but I do
recall it is not very useful in pinning down bus failures
(as opposed to just watching traffic on a working bus).
Maybe something gets logged (ASL/syslog), though when I
was looking at a similar problem (device on the bus going
away), nothing was.

Most likely there is some seldom occurring conflict between
all the USB connected devices.  Maybe watching/logging what
they're doing would be useful.  I'd try not connecting them
until they are needed, then disconnecting them when done,
or maybe just powering them down.

Billy Y..
-- 
        sub     #'9+1   ,r0             ; convert ascii byte
	add     #9.+1   ,r0             ; to an integer
	bcc     20$                     ; not a number

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#63411

In article <lt5cb1$nck$1@dont-email.me>, Király <me@home.spamsucks.ca>
wrote:

> Every so often my iMac running 10.9.4 slows to a crawl. When this 
> happens it also has USB problems; i.e. thumb drives will spontaneously 
> unmount and my scanner will disconnect mid-scan. 
> 
> Resetting the SMC fixes it all up, but then it starts happening again 
> after a few days or a week.
> 
> I have 5 USB devices permanently connected through two hubs, and 3-4 
> more that get plugged in occasionally. Disconnecting all USB devices and 
> reconnecting them one by one will help me determine which device may be 
> causing the problem, but that is tedious and could take weeks.
> 
> Is there a way of probing the USB to determine which USB device may be 
> causing the problem? I downloaded USB Prober from Apple but I don't 
> know how to use it or even if it can help me with this.

it's probably the hub and not being able to supply sufficient power to
an attached device.

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#63415

For your reference, records indicate that 
me@home.spamsucks.ca (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Kir=E1ly?=) wrote:

> Every so often my iMac running 10.9.4 slows to a crawl. When this 
> happens it also has USB problems; i.e. thumb drives will spontaneously 
> unmount and my scanner will disconnect mid-scan. 

One thing you don’t mention is having looked at any of the system log
files.  Starting there is usually a better idea than guessing at what
the problem/fix might be.  Use the Console utility if you’re not
comfortable using Terminal commands.

-- 
"Also . . . I can kill you with my brain."
River Tam, Trash, Firefly

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#69588

In article <lt5cb1$nck$1@dont-email.me>, Kiraly <me@home.spamsucks.ca> 
wrote:

> Every so often my iMac running 10.9.4 slows to a crawl. When this 
> happens it also has USB problems; i.e. thumb drives will spontaneously 
> unmount and my scanner will disconnect mid-scan. 

OP here. I determined the problem to be coming from a bad powered USB 
hub. I replaced it and all the problems disappeared.

-- 
K.

Lang may your lum reek.

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#69644

reliability ...are probs more frequently caused by thumb drives or the ports where they are used?

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