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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #58971 > unrolled thread

Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?

Started byDon Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net>
First post2014-04-27 17:25 -0700
Last post2014-05-02 19:48 -0400
Articles 20 on this page of 179 — 27 participants

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Contents

  Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence? Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2014-04-27 17:25 -0700
    Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-27 20:29 -0400
    Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence? Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-04-27 18:05 -0700
    Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence? bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> - 2014-04-27 18:10 -0700
      Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence? Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2014-04-27 18:53 -0700
    Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence? billy@MIX.COM - 2014-04-28 16:47 +0000
      Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence? Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2014-04-28 11:32 -0700
        Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence? android <here@there.was> - 2014-04-28 21:30 +0200
        Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-04-29 09:17 +1200
          Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-04-29 03:02 +0000
            Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-04-30 17:04 -0400
        Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence? billy@MIX.COM - 2014-04-28 22:22 +0000
          Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-04-28 19:23 -0400
            Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence? Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2014-04-28 18:32 -0700
              Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-04-30 16:38 -0400
        Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-04-29 03:00 +0000
          POP3 vs. IMAP (Was: Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?) befr@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) - 2014-04-29 08:36 +0200
            Re: POP3 vs. IMAP (Was: Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-04-29 19:10 +1200
              Re: POP3 vs. IMAP befr@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) - 2014-04-29 10:49 +0200
                Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-04-30 09:21 +1200
                  Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-05-02 17:23 +0000
                    Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-05-02 17:27 +0000
                Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Howard.not@home.com (Howard) - 2014-04-30 15:28 +0100
                  Re: POP3 vs. IMAP billy@MIX.COM - 2014-04-30 14:52 +0000
              Re: POP3 vs. IMAP (Was: Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?) Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-04-30 16:28 -0400
                Re: POP3 vs. IMAP (Was: Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?) Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-04-30 16:39 -0400
            Re: POP3 vs. IMAP (Was: Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?) JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-04-29 03:18 -0400
              Re: POP3 vs. IMAP (Was: Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-04-29 19:22 +1200
                Re: POP3 vs. IMAP (Was: Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?) Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-04-29 10:05 +0100
                  Re: POP3 vs. IMAP (Was: Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?) Invid Fan <invid@loclanet.com> - 2014-04-29 10:23 -0400
                    Re: POP3 vs. IMAP (Was: Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-04-30 09:16 +1200
                      Re: POP3 vs. IMAP (Was: Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?) JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-04-29 17:28 -0400
                Re: POP3 vs. IMAP (Was: Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?) Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-04-30 16:28 -0400
            Re: POP3 vs. IMAP (Was: Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-04-29 20:47 +0000
              Re: POP3 vs. IMAP (Was: Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?) Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2014-04-29 20:27 -0500
                Re: POP3 vs. IMAP (Was: Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?) JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-04-29 21:42 -0400
                Re: POP3 vs. IMAP (Was: Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?) billy@MIX.COM - 2014-04-30 14:19 +0000
                  Re: POP3 vs. IMAP (Was: Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?) Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2014-04-30 17:50 -0500
                    Re: POP3 vs. IMAP (Was: Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?) billy@MIX.COM - 2014-04-30 23:36 +0000
                    Re: POP3 vs. IMAP (Was: Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?) Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2014-04-30 17:50 -0700
                      Re: POP3 vs. IMAP (Was: Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-05-01 13:13 +1200
                        Re: POP3 vs. IMAP (Was: Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?) Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2014-04-30 21:15 -0700
                          Re: POP3 vs. IMAP (Was: Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-05-01 18:22 +1200
                      Re: POP3 vs. IMAP (Was: Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-05-02 17:11 +0000
                Re: POP3 vs. IMAP (Was: Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-05-02 17:09 +0000
              Re: POP3 vs. IMAP befr@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) - 2014-04-30 08:41 +0200
                Re: POP3 vs. IMAP JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-04-30 03:17 -0400
                  Re: POP3 vs. IMAP befr@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) - 2014-04-30 09:47 +0200
                    Re: POP3 vs. IMAP JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-04-30 04:54 -0400
                      Re: POP3 vs. IMAP befr@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) - 2014-04-30 11:32 +0200
                        Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-04-30 06:51 -0700
                          Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-05-01 09:27 +1200
                          Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-04-30 18:00 -0400
                          Re: POP3 vs. IMAP befr@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) - 2014-05-02 10:00 +0200
                            Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-05-02 09:48 +0100
                            Re: POP3 vs. IMAP nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-02 10:07 -0400
                          Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-05-02 17:16 +0000
                      Re: POP3 vs. IMAP billy@MIX.COM - 2014-04-30 14:09 +0000
                      Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-05-02 17:14 +0000
              Re: POP3 vs. IMAP (Was: Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?) billy@MIX.COM - 2014-04-30 14:14 +0000
                Re: POP3 vs. IMAP (Was: Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?) "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net> - 2014-04-30 19:18 +0000
              Re: POP3 vs. IMAP (Was: Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?) Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-04-30 17:06 -0400
            Re: POP3 vs. IMAP (Was: Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence?) John Albert <j.albert@snet.net> - 2014-05-01 18:56 -0400
              Re: POP3 vs. IMAP dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-05-02 12:23 +1200
                Re: POP3 vs. IMAP John Albert <j.albert@snet.net> - 2014-05-02 10:34 -0400
              Re: POP3 vs. IMAP nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2014-05-01 18:25 -0600
                Re: POP3 vs. IMAP billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-02 01:46 +0000
                  Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-05-02 05:48 +0000
                    Re: POP3 vs. IMAP JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-05-02 03:20 -0400
                      Re: POP3 vs. IMAP android <here@there.was> - 2014-05-02 10:50 +0200
                        Re: POP3 vs. IMAP JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-05-02 06:04 -0400
                          Re: POP3 vs. IMAP android <here@there.was> - 2014-05-02 12:14 +0200
                          Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-05-02 17:39 +0000
                            Re: POP3 vs. IMAP billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-02 18:32 +0000
                        Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> - 2014-05-02 10:55 -0500
                          Re: POP3 vs. IMAP billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-02 16:50 +0000
                            Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> - 2014-05-03 11:30 -0500
                              Re: POP3 vs. IMAP billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-03 16:45 +0000
                                Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> - 2014-05-04 11:43 -0500
                                  Re: POP3 vs. IMAP billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-05 20:41 +0000
                                    Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> - 2014-05-06 12:32 -0500
                                      Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-05-06 17:41 +0000
                                        Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> - 2014-05-07 12:25 -0500
                                          Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-08 00:10 +0000
                                            Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-05-07 20:32 -0400
                                            Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2014-05-08 04:29 +0000
                                            Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) dyera@not.freeshell.org.invalid - 2014-05-08 14:40 +0000
                                              Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-05-10 07:16 -0700
                                            Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> - 2014-05-08 16:14 -0500
                                              Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-08 21:42 +0000
                                                Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> - 2014-05-09 12:15 -0500
                                                  Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-09 18:42 +0000
                                                    Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> - 2014-05-10 16:42 -0500
                                                      Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-11 01:08 +0000
                                                        Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> - 2014-05-11 16:40 -0500
                                                          Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-05-11 17:52 -0700
                                                            Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> - 2014-05-12 11:39 -0500
                                                          Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Invid Fan <invid@loclanet.com> - 2014-05-11 21:25 -0400
                                                            Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> - 2014-05-12 11:53 -0500
                                                          Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-12 10:29 +0000
                                            Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-05-09 03:45 +0000
                                              Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-09 09:30 -0400
                                                Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-05-09 18:17 -0400
                                                  Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-09 19:28 -0400
                                                  Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-05-10 13:30 +1200
                                              Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2014-05-12 00:12 +0000
                                                Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Invid Fan <invid@loclanet.com> - 2014-05-11 21:32 -0400
                                                  Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-05-12 04:00 -0700
                                          Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) befr@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) - 2014-05-08 11:42 +0200
                                            Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> - 2014-05-08 16:33 -0500
                                            Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-05-09 03:43 +0000
                                      Re: POP3 vs. IMAP billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-07 19:27 +0000
                                        Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> - 2014-05-08 15:55 -0500
                                          Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-05-08 22:16 +0000
                                            Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> - 2014-05-09 11:35 -0500
                                          Re: POP3 vs. IMAP billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-09 16:20 +0000
                                            Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> - 2014-05-10 13:43 -0500
                                              Re: POP3 vs. IMAP billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-11 04:20 +0000
                                                Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> - 2014-05-11 15:01 -0500
                                                  Re: POP3 vs. IMAP billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-12 14:27 +0000
                                                    Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-05-12 17:24 +0100
                                                      Re: POP3 vs. IMAP billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-12 17:38 +0000
                                                        Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-05-12 20:58 +0000
                                                          Re: POP3 vs. IMAP billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-12 21:33 +0000
                          Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-05-02 17:17 +0000
                            Usenet enters the ring!  NNTP vs. (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> - 2014-05-03 12:10 -0500
                              Re: Usenet enters the ring!  NNTP vs. (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-05-03 23:13 +0000
                              Re: Usenet enters the ring!  NNTP vs. (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-08 03:49 +0000
                                Re: Usenet enters the ring!  NNTP vs. (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> - 2014-05-08 16:02 -0500
                                  Re: Usenet enters the ring!  NNTP vs. (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-05-09 09:22 +1200
                                  Re: Usenet enters the ring!  NNTP vs. (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-09 01:20 +0000
                                    Re: Usenet enters the ring!  NNTP vs. (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> - 2014-05-09 11:43 -0500
                                      Re: Usenet enters the ring!  NNTP vs. (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-09 18:36 +0000
                                        Re: Usenet enters the ring!  NNTP vs. (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-10 17:47 +0000
                                          Re: Usenet enters the ring!  NNTP vs. (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-05-11 19:38 +0100
                                            Re: Usenet enters the ring!  NNTP vs. (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-11 19:05 +0000
                                              Re: Usenet enters the ring!  NNTP vs. (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-05-11 20:13 +0100
                                                Re: Usenet enters the ring!  NNTP vs. (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-11 23:17 +0000
                                                  Re: Usenet enters the ring!  NNTP vs. (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-05-12 10:01 +0100
                                                    Re: Usenet enters the ring!  NNTP vs. (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-12 10:48 +0000
                                                      Re: Usenet enters the ring!  NNTP vs. (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-05-12 15:24 +0000
                                                        Re: Usenet enters the ring!  NNTP vs. (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-05-12 17:22 +0100
                                                          Re: Usenet enters the ring!  NNTP vs. (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-12 20:34 +0000
                                                          Re: Usenet enters the ring!  NNTP vs. (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-05-12 20:57 +0000
                                                Re: Usenet enters the ring!  NNTP vs. (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-05-12 02:20 +0000
                                          Re: Usenet enters the ring!  NNTP vs. (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> - 2014-05-11 15:14 -0500
                                        Re: Usenet enters the ring!  NNTP vs. (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> - 2014-05-10 13:53 -0500
                                          Re: Usenet enters the ring!  NNTP vs. (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-10 20:29 +0000
                                            Re: Usenet enters the ring!  NNTP vs. (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP) Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> - 2014-05-11 16:21 -0500
                          Re: POP3 vs. IMAP android <here@there.was> - 2014-05-04 20:08 +0200
                        Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-05-02 13:17 -0400
                          Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-05-02 22:08 +0000
                            Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-05-02 18:35 -0400
                            Re: POP3 vs. IMAP billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-03 00:02 +0000
                              Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-05-03 09:37 -0400
                                Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-05-03 17:09 +0000
                                  Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-05-03 13:23 -0400
                                    Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Jim Gibson <jimsgibson@gmail.com> - 2014-05-05 13:30 -0700
                                      Re: POP3 vs. IMAP John White <jccw@comcast.net> - 2014-05-05 16:41 -0400
                      Re: POP3 vs. IMAP billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-02 13:55 +0000
                        Re: POP3 vs. IMAP android <here@there.was> - 2014-05-02 16:10 +0200
                      Re: POP3 vs. IMAP John Albert <j.albert@snet.net> - 2014-05-02 10:37 -0400
                        Re: POP3 vs. IMAP nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-02 10:48 -0400
                        Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-05-02 11:09 -0400
                        Re: POP3 vs. IMAP billy@MIX.COM - 2014-05-02 17:06 +0000
                          Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-05-02 17:23 +0000
                        Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-05-02 17:34 +0000
                      Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-05-03 12:01 +1200
                  Re: POP3 vs. IMAP dyera@not.freeshell.org.invalid - 2014-05-02 17:00 +0000
                    Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-05-02 13:19 -0400
                      Re: POP3 vs. IMAP dyera@not.freeshell.org.invalid - 2014-05-03 16:29 +0000
                        Re: POP3 vs. IMAP Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-05-03 12:46 -0400
          Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-04-30 16:35 -0400
            Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-05-02 17:27 +0000
              Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-05-02 17:41 -0400
                Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-05-02 22:14 +0000
                  Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-05-02 18:46 -0400
                  Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence? Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> - 2014-05-02 23:33 +0000
                    Re: Obnoxious noises in Apple Mail - how to silence? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-05-02 19:48 -0400

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#59165 — Re: POP3 vs. IMAP

FromDoc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com>
Date2014-05-06 12:32 -0500
SubjectRe: POP3 vs. IMAP
Message-ID<droleary-E218FD.12325106052014@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#59149
In article <lk8t1r$q5o$1@reader2.panix.com>, billy@MIX.COM wrote:

> Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> writes, quoting me:
> 
> > > ...I'd suggest looking at (and borrowing from, speaking of nntp libs)
> > > slrn and tin.
> >
> > I'd suggest you actually look at the source for either before you make
> > such a suggestion.
> 
> I have.  I did a lot of work on tin before the current group of people
> maintaining it (who are quite good) took it up.

Ah, so you're partly to blame.  :-)

> > As I said, *none* of the existing readers (including previous Mac
> > efforts like Newsflash) seem to have been written with the intention
> > of sharing the code with other projects.
> 
> Of course not.

No; don't just accept bad software design as a given.  The *first* thing 
I did when I started my newsreader to decouple the NNTP bits into their 
own framework, and even in there I have the parts that care about 
communicating with the server abstracted away from the core 
functionality of dealing with messages.  That is why I expect my reader 
to be able to more easily support POP or IMAP (or just about anything 
else that can be massaged into a message) in the future or, on the flip 
side, re-use that NNTP framework for other apps or command line tools.  
Your "Of course not" explains why things like curl lack support for news 
or nntp URL schemes, and why Usenet continues to slide into obscurity.  
Your casual negligence is embarrassing.

> > and no documentation that would even *suggest* you could easily factor
> > out an independent library that just handled the protocol details.
> 
> Hmm.  I thought C is self-documenting.  More or less.  Heh.

It could be, if developers had half a clue.  One look at the tin source 
shows that nobody that apparently cares to make things easy for 
outsiders to pick up.  I mean, for goodness sake, would calling an 
article more than "art" kill you?  And that's hardly even the tip of the 
tip of the *tip* of the iceberg.

> > > Both of these are what I'd call better software, although they're
> > > both character cell terminal (no GUI) newsreaders.
> > 
> > They're definitely software that have had a lot of hours put into their
> > coding, but don't mistake that as being what defines "better".
> 
> Better to me means it works, and works well.  Particularly in the
> real world, where not everyone follows the RFCs/standards/etc.

Yes, the battle cry of most mis-managed open software projects: It works 
well . . . until it doesn't work at all.  Look, like the OpenSSL coders, 
need to take a step back and see what you've done with a fresh set of 
eyes, and start making changes that make your past efforts more useful 
to today's users and developers.

My experience with open source projects is that they won't do that, 
which is why I find myself having to re-code things that should have 
been taken care of decades ago.  I mean, even your newsrc handling is 
awful.  I could have taken the time to figure out how to apply your 
junky ol' code to what I want, or I could do what I ended up doing, and 
essentially run the file through an NSScanner to construct an NSIndexSet 
of read articles for each group.  You have no equivalent higher-level 
concepts for parsing strings or article ranges (which tin code calls 
bitmap sequences, for some strange, non-self-documenting reason).  
That's only "works well" by some 1980s definition of the phrase.

> > Again, the reading of messages is *independent* of how you move those
> > messages around.  Not understanding that is why their code has been
> > limited to terminal use of NNTP, and vice versa.
> 
> They're character cell (text) terminal based newsreaders because
> Usenet is a text medium.

As long as you believe that, your software will continue to slide into 
irrelevance.  In reality, Usenet is abstractly a CDN.  And the people 
who use it deserve to be more than a few characters in a From: header.  
The truth is more likely that you *want* to keep newsreaders stuck in 
the terminal because you're either unwilling or unable to envision a 
better future for the technology.  That's sad, and it's a shame that 
your efforts with tin will be lost in time rather than having been 
something that future generations could build on.

> > Believe me, I would *love* to find some open source code for a
> > newsreader that looked like the developers knew they needed to package
> > it for other developers to read/use.  If you can actually point me to
> > that, you'd be a hero-by-proxy.
> 
> I'd like to, but I don't think it (yet..) exists.

Which is why I've taken on the fool's errand of re-writing things 
myself.  If there's enough support, it'll be released as open source.  
Given the state of Usenet these days, though, I'm not expecting to even 
break even on my efforts.

> > Otherwise, your suggestions are better aimed at the developers of
> > existing Usenet software.
> 
> Well.. There's a lot of info available in tin/slrn sources that'd
> be useful to anyone.

Not nearly as much as you think.  Speaking from experience, as an 
outsider, the code is *at best* not useful and, at worst, exhibits signs 
of deranged minds.  Go ahead and try and talk your tin friends into 
getting them to factor out a libnntp that can used, at the very least, 
to simply process Usenet URLs.  Until that sort of thing is eagerly 
embraced, you should gravely doubt the usefulness of tin source code in 
the future.

Again, I know that all reads as more hostile than intended.  Like I 
said, my experience with poorly run software development is that the 
people involved aren't interested in fixing what's wrong, and so I 
prefer not to get involved with their mutual back-patting sessions.  I 
just laugh and walk away from "brogrammers" who think committing code is 
the most important thing in the world, yet the code they're cranking out 
is all garbage that they think "works, and works well".

-- 
iPhone apps that matter:    http://appstore.subsume.com/
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, localhost, googlegroups.com, teranews.com,
    and probably your server, too.

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#59166 — Re: POP3 vs. IMAP

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2014-05-06 17:41 +0000
SubjectRe: POP3 vs. IMAP
Message-ID<bssl5oFvh2U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#59165
On 2014-05-06, Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> wrote:
>
> Which is why I've taken on the fool's errand of re-writing things 
> myself.  If there's enough support, it'll be released as open source.  

I'd love to see that!

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#59178 — Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)

FromDoc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com>
Date2014-05-07 12:25 -0500
SubjectOf what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)
Message-ID<droleary-BA635F.12251807052014@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#59166
In article <bssl5oFvh2U1@mid.individual.net>,
 Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2014-05-06, Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> wrote:
> >
> > Which is why I've taken on the fool's errand of re-writing things 
> > myself.  If there's enough support, it'll be released as open source.  
> 
> I'd love to see that!

Then get enough people together to pony up the development costs, either 
through crowd funding or just write a big check yourself.  The way it's 
looking, version 1.0 is going to be at least $20K of effort.  If someone 
wants to organize a Kickstarter (or whatever) at $50K to make it an 
ongoing effort, great; let me know.  Otherwise, I'm planning to put it 
on the App Store for $10, but I have zero expectation that it'll be 
popular enough to cover costs.

-- 
iPhone apps that matter:    http://appstore.subsume.com/
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, localhost, googlegroups.com, teranews.com,
    and probably your server, too.

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#59186 — Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)

Frombilly@MIX.COM
Date2014-05-08 00:10 +0000
SubjectRe: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)
Message-ID<lkei0r$21a$1@reader2.panix.com>
In reply to#59178
Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> writes, quoting
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>:

> > > Which is why I've taken on the fool's errand of re-writing things 
> > > myself.  If there's enough support, it'll be released as open source.  
> > 
> > I'd love to see that!
> 
> Then get enough people together to pony up the development costs, either 
> through crowd funding or just write a big check yourself.  The way it's 
> looking, version 1.0 is going to be at least $20K of effort.  If someone 
> wants to organize a Kickstarter (or whatever) at $50K to make it an 
> ongoing effort, great; let me know.  Otherwise, I'm planning to put it 
> on the App Store for $10, but I have zero expectation that it'll be 
> popular enough to cover costs.

The author of MailMate, licenses for which are US$50, raised US$42,741 -

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mailmate-2-0-the-email-client-for-the-rest-of-us

One annoying aspect (to me, anyway) of the App Store is the inability
to try a program without purchasing it.

Billy Y..
-- 
        sub     #'9+1   ,r0             ; convert ascii byte
	add     #9.+1   ,r0             ; to an integer
	bcc     20$                     ; not a number

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#59187 — Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)

FromAlan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca>
Date2014-05-07 20:32 -0400
SubjectRe: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)
Message-ID<i_CdnUmnBtsfTffOnZ2dnUVZ_uednZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#59186
On 2014.05.07, 20:10 , billy@MIX.COM wrote:
> Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> writes, quoting
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>:
>
>>>> Which is why I've taken on the fool's errand of re-writing things
>>>> myself.  If there's enough support, it'll be released as open source.
>>>
>>> I'd love to see that!
>>
>> Then get enough people together to pony up the development costs, either
>> through crowd funding or just write a big check yourself.  The way it's
>> looking, version 1.0 is going to be at least $20K of effort.  If someone
>> wants to organize a Kickstarter (or whatever) at $50K to make it an
>> ongoing effort, great; let me know.  Otherwise, I'm planning to put it
>> on the App Store for $10, but I have zero expectation that it'll be
>> popular enough to cover costs.
>
> The author of MailMate, licenses for which are US$50, raised US$42,741 -
>
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mailmate-2-0-the-email-client-for-the-rest-of-us
>
> One annoying aspect (to me, anyway) of the App Store is the inability
> to try a program without purchasing it.

Hear, hear!


-- 
"Big data can reduce anything to a single number,
  but you shouldn’t be fooled by the appearance of exactitude."
      -Gary Marcus and Ernest Davis, NYT, 2014.04.07

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#59189 — Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)

Fromme@home.spamsucks.ca (Király)
Date2014-05-08 04:29 +0000
SubjectRe: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)
Message-ID<lkf16s$pa4$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#59186
billy@mix.com wrote:
> One annoying aspect (to me, anyway) of the App Store is the inability
> to try a program without purchasing it.

I know. I harkens back to the days of shrinkwrapped software from the 
bricks-and-mortar store. I thought the pay before you even get 
to try it model was long gone; obsolete. Obviously not. 

I won't pay $80 or $30 or even $10 for an app if I don't get to try it 
out first and see if it can do what I need it to do, and determinie if 
it's worth the asking price.

-- 
K.

Lang may your lum reek.

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#59192 — Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)

Fromdyera@not.freeshell.org.invalid
Date2014-05-08 14:40 +0000
SubjectRe: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)
Message-ID<lkg513$le8$1@odin.sdf-eu.org>
In reply to#59186
On 2014-05-08, billy@MIX.COM <billy@MIX.COM> wrote in 
<lkei0r$21a$1@reader2.panix.com>:
>
> One annoying aspect (to me, anyway) of the App Store is the inability
> to try a program without purchasing it.


100% agree! It's stifling. Some of us still live on a budget.

-- 
AD

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#59239 — Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)

FromAnt <ant@zimage.comANT>
Date2014-05-10 07:16 -0700
SubjectRe: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)
Message-ID<3YqdnYaP2PxWqfPOnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#59192
On 5/8/2014 7:40 AM PT, dyera@not.freeshell.org.invalid typed:

>> One annoying aspect (to me, anyway) of the App Store is the inability
>> to try a program without purchasing it.
>
>
> 100% agree! It's stifling. Some of us still live on a budget.

Ditto!
-- 
"The world flatters the elephant and tramples on the ant." --Indian
    /\___/\         Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
   / /\ /\ \                Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
  | |o   o| |
     \ _ /        If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
      ( )         If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

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#59203 — Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)

FromDoc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com>
Date2014-05-08 16:14 -0500
SubjectRe: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)
Message-ID<droleary-84E430.16140008052014@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#59186
In article <lkei0r$21a$1@reader2.panix.com>, billy@MIX.COM wrote:

> The author of MailMate, licenses for which are US$50, raised US$42,741 -
> 
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mailmate-2-0-the-email-client-for-the-rest-
> of-us

Not open sourced as a result.  Not even the app being free.  It looks 
like it was just a form of pre-order.  Seems like a bit of a rip to me.

> One annoying aspect (to me, anyway) of the App Store is the inability
> to try a program without purchasing it.

Blame the developers.  They could release two related apps, like the 
free TextWrangler and the paid BBEdit.  Or the app itself can be made 
free and offer in-app purchases that unlock the "full" version.  But 
then people complain about being nickle-and-dimed to death, so there's 
no winning.

-- 
iPhone apps that matter:    http://appstore.subsume.com/
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, localhost, googlegroups.com, teranews.com,
    and probably your server, too.

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#59207 — Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)

Frombilly@MIX.COM
Date2014-05-08 21:42 +0000
SubjectRe: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)
Message-ID<lkgtnj$aqi$1@reader2.panix.com>
In reply to#59203
Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> writes, quoting me:

> > The author of MailMate, licenses for which are US$50, raised
> > US$42,741 -

> Not open sourced as a result.  Not even the app being free.
> It looks like it was just a form of pre-order.

So?

> Seems like a bit of a rip to me.

It's easily the best, and best supported, OS X user agent.
Plus, the guy was 100% clear about where the money is going.
Not to mention it was an already existing program people
could evaluate before tossing any money at it.

Where's the rip in that?

> > One annoying aspect (to me, anyway) of the App Store is the
> > inability to try a program without purchasing it.
>
> Blame the developers.  They could release two related apps, like the
> free TextWrangler and the paid BBEdit.  Or the app itself can be made
> free and offer in-app purchases that unlock the "full" version.

Can time-limited trials of the "full" version be offered?  No.
You may blame Apple for that.

Billy Y..
-- 
        sub     #'9+1   ,r0             ; convert ascii byte
	add     #9.+1   ,r0             ; to an integer
	bcc     20$                     ; not a number

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#59222 — Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)

FromDoc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com>
Date2014-05-09 12:15 -0500
SubjectRe: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)
Message-ID<droleary-728F53.12151409052014@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#59207
In article <lkgtnj$aqi$1@reader2.panix.com>, billy@MIX.COM wrote:

> Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> writes, quoting me:
> 
> > > The author of MailMate, licenses for which are US$50, raised
> > > US$42,741 -
> 
> > Not open sourced as a result.  Not even the app being free.
> > It looks like it was just a form of pre-order.
> 
> So?

So it's just not that interesting.  Pre-orders have been around for 
ages.  My ideal in crowdfunding is to offer people something they don't 
usually get from a company.  I mean, if all the costs are covered before 
work even begins, it just doesn't seem right to *not* give away the 
software for free, and possibly go the extra mile of open sourcing the 
efforts.  I mean, in any other contract work for hire that I do, I don't 
get to keep the code, so I'd have to be a pretty big dick to treat 
*people* worse than I treat *companies*.

> > Seems like a bit of a rip to me.
> 
> It's easily the best, and best supported, OS X user agent.
> Plus, the guy was 100% clear about where the money is going.
> Not to mention it was an already existing program people
> could evaluate before tossing any money at it.
> 
> Where's the rip in that?

It's a general problem with crowdfunding, not that particular project.  
When the costs are covered ahead of time, there is no risk taken on by 
the project.  A decent person/company would offer something in return 
for that, not just a $50 value for your $50 investment.  Possibly, 
maybe, that is, unless the project fails to deliver or was an outright 
scam from the beginning.

> > > One annoying aspect (to me, anyway) of the App Store is the
> > > inability to try a program without purchasing it.
> >
> > Blame the developers.  They could release two related apps, like the
> > free TextWrangler and the paid BBEdit.  Or the app itself can be made
> > free and offer in-app purchases that unlock the "full" version.
> 
> Can time-limited trials of the "full" version be offered?  No.
> You may blame Apple for that.

Again, not true.  Anyone who could bother to support switches for in-app 
purchases and/or subscriptions can just as easily turn things on/off 
based on time.  There are *thousands* of games that ship with a 
"freemium" model that starts off with all gauges on MAX and then slowly 
degrade based on usage.  All evidence is against your position.

-- 
iPhone apps that matter:    http://appstore.subsume.com/
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, localhost, googlegroups.com, teranews.com,
    and probably your server, too.

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#59224 — Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)

Frombilly@MIX.COM
Date2014-05-09 18:42 +0000
SubjectRe: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)
Message-ID<lkj7j5$gua$2@reader2.panix.com>
In reply to#59222
Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> writes:

> My ideal in crowdfunding is to offer people something they don't 
> usually get from a company.

In this respect, MailMate easily qualifies.

> It's a general problem with crowdfunding, not that particular project.  
> When the costs are covered ahead of time, there is no risk taken on by 
> the project.  A decent person/company would offer something in return 
> for that, not just a $50 value for your $50 investment.

And you're offering ... what exactly?

> > Can time-limited trials of the "full" version be offered?  No.
> > You may blame Apple for that.
> 
> Again, not true.  Anyone who could bother to support switches for in-app 
> purchases and/or subscriptions can just as easily turn things on/off 
> based on time.

You might want to read Apple's policy (requires registration to view) -

https://developer.apple.com/appstore/mac/resources/approval/guidelines.html

Billy Y..
-- 
        sub     #'9+1   ,r0             ; convert ascii byte
	add     #9.+1   ,r0             ; to an integer
	bcc     20$                     ; not a number

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#59261 — Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)

FromDoc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com>
Date2014-05-10 16:42 -0500
SubjectRe: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)
Message-ID<droleary-D2ED66.16424110052014@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#59224
In article <lkj7j5$gua$2@reader2.panix.com>, billy@MIX.COM wrote:

> Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> writes:
> 
> > My ideal in crowdfunding is to offer people something they don't 
> > usually get from a company.
> 
> In this respect, MailMate easily qualifies.

I'm not sure how.  You can either pay them directly for a $50 license or 
go through crowdfunding to pay $50 for a license.  What am I missing?

> > It's a general problem with crowdfunding, not that particular project.  
> > When the costs are covered ahead of time, there is no risk taken on by 
> > the project.  A decent person/company would offer something in return 
> > for that, not just a $50 value for your $50 investment.
> 
> And you're offering ... what exactly?

Nothing.  I'm not running a crowdfunding campaign.  But, if someone 
wanted to run one for me, I would do just as I've said: consider it a 
work for hire, put out the app for free to everyone, and make the source 
code available.

> > > Can time-limited trials of the "full" version be offered?  No.
> > > You may blame Apple for that.
> > 
> > Again, not true.  Anyone who could bother to support switches for in-app 
> > purchases and/or subscriptions can just as easily turn things on/off 
> > based on time.
> 
> You might want to read Apple's policy (requires registration to view) -
> 
> https://developer.apple.com/appstore/mac/resources/approval/guidelines.html

I've read it many times.  You might want to state exactly where you 
think thousands of approved games have gone wrong.

-- 
iPhone apps that matter:    http://appstore.subsume.com/
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, localhost, googlegroups.com, teranews.com,
    and probably your server, too.

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#59270 — Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)

Frombilly@MIX.COM
Date2014-05-11 01:08 +0000
SubjectRe: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)
Message-ID<lkmij9$2t$1@reader2.panix.com>
In reply to#59261
Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> writes, quoting me:

> > > My ideal in crowdfunding is to offer people something they don't 
> > > usually get from a company.
> > 
> > In this respect, MailMate easily qualifies.
> 
> I'm not sure how.  You can either pay them directly for a $50 license or 
> go through crowdfunding to pay $50 for a license.  What am I missing?

An usuaually decent user agent, written by a guy who A) actually knows
what he's doing, and B) puts a great deal of effort into getting it done.

> > You might want to read Apple's policy (requires registration to view) -
> > 
> > https://developer.apple.com/appstore/mac/resources/approval/guidelines.html
> 
> I've read it many times.  You might want to state exactly where you 
> think thousands of approved games have gone wrong.

Where are the thousands of approved free trials of non-game programs?

Billy Y..
-- 
        sub     #'9+1   ,r0             ; convert ascii byte
	add     #9.+1   ,r0             ; to an integer
	bcc     20$                     ; not a number

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#59295 — Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)

FromDoc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com>
Date2014-05-11 16:40 -0500
SubjectRe: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)
Message-ID<droleary-EEEC65.16403111052014@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#59270
In article <lkmij9$2t$1@reader2.panix.com>, billy@MIX.COM wrote:

> Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> writes, quoting me:
> 
> > > > My ideal in crowdfunding is to offer people something they don't 
> > > > usually get from a company.
> > > 
> > > In this respect, MailMate easily qualifies.
> > 
> > I'm not sure how.  You can either pay them directly for a $50 license or 
> > go through crowdfunding to pay $50 for a license.  What am I missing?
> 
> An usuaually decent user agent, written by a guy who A) actually knows
> what he's doing, and B) puts a great deal of effort into getting it done.

That's great, but it doesn't address my issue.  It just doesn't seem to 
be in the (ideal) spirt of crowdfunding to simply use it as a pre-order 
mechanism.  Or perhaps times have changed already and that's all 
crowdfunding has become.  Somebody let me know, because I'd be much 
happier if I could get people to fund my work ahead of time while I 
could bank all the dough and in the end only give them the product they 
would have gotten if they'd just waited a bit.

> > > You might want to read Apple's policy (requires registration to view) -
> > > 
> > > https://developer.apple.com/appstore/mac/resources/approval/guidelines.htm
> > > l
> > 
> > I've read it many times.  You might want to state exactly where you 
> > think thousands of approved games have gone wrong.
> 
> Where are the thousands of approved free trials of non-game programs?

Don't know.  It's hard to find useful non-game software in the App 
Store.  Here's one:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ican-print/id448566661?mt=8

"There are free trial points. After trial points are exhausted, print is 
NOT FREE."

Now stop moving the goal posts, simply admit you were mistaken, and 
change your position.  If you can't, I'm done with you.

-- 
iPhone apps that matter:    http://appstore.subsume.com/
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, localhost, googlegroups.com, teranews.com,
    and probably your server, too.

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#59299 — Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)

FromMichael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net>
Date2014-05-11 17:52 -0700
SubjectRe: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)
Message-ID<vilain-B1D9DA.17522111052014@news.individual.net>
In reply to#59295
In article <droleary-EEEC65.16403111052014@news.eternal-september.org>,
 Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> wrote:

> In article <lkmij9$2t$1@reader2.panix.com>, billy@MIX.COM wrote:
> 
> > Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> writes, quoting me:
> > 
> > > > > My ideal in crowdfunding is to offer people something they don't 
> > > > > usually get from a company.
> > > > 
> > > > In this respect, MailMate easily qualifies.
> > > 
> > > I'm not sure how.  You can either pay them directly for a $50 license or 
> > > go through crowdfunding to pay $50 for a license.  What am I missing?
> > 
> > An usuaually decent user agent, written by a guy who A) actually knows
> > what he's doing, and B) puts a great deal of effort into getting it done.
> 
> That's great, but it doesn't address my issue.  It just doesn't seem to 
> be in the (ideal) spirt of crowdfunding to simply use it as a pre-order 
> mechanism.  Or perhaps times have changed already and that's all 
> crowdfunding has become.  Somebody let me know, because I'd be much 
> happier if I could get people to fund my work ahead of time while I 
> could bank all the dough and in the end only give them the product they 
> would have gotten if they'd just waited a bit.
> 
> > > > You might want to read Apple's policy (requires registration to view) -
> > > > 
> > > > https://developer.apple.com/appstore/mac/resources/approval/guidelines.h
> > > > tm
> > > > l
> > > 
> > > I've read it many times.  You might want to state exactly where you 
> > > think thousands of approved games have gone wrong.
> > 
> > Where are the thousands of approved free trials of non-game programs?
> 
> Don't know.  It's hard to find useful non-game software in the App 
> Store.  Here's one:
> 
> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ican-print/id448566661?mt=8
> 
> "There are free trial points. After trial points are exhausted, print is 
> NOT FREE."
> 
> Now stop moving the goal posts, simply admit you were mistaken, and 
> change your position.  If you can't, I'm done with you.

Well, Kickstarter is usually the mechanism that's used in this instance.  
Except you don't get the money unless you reach the fundraising goal.  
I've pledged $25 or $50 to non-profits or comicbook projects and they've 
made their targets within the allotted time-frame.  Then my card got 
charged.  A couple web-movies didn't make it.

Indiegogo is another site that does crowd funding.

Both these sites have some safeguards for fraud, but it's not perfect.  
There's nothing to prevent a crowdfunder from just going off to Belize 
with the money collected.  One state AG is going after a Kickstart 
scammer currently.

Paying ahead of time for development is a dicey thing.  I pledged $100 
to the guy that did LavaBit because he want to make the former service 
that the Feds wanted to pen/trap into DarkMail, an OpenSource version of 
the service.  But the project was funded.  

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ladar/lavabits-dark-mail-initiative

If he can do it, maybe you can to.  I don't know what safeguards against 
fraud there are, but you may not see the money until the project is 
"delivered".  So it's more like a loan than a prepayment.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

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#59323 — Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)

FromDoc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com>
Date2014-05-12 11:39 -0500
SubjectRe: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)
Message-ID<droleary-0AEA0D.11394312052014@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#59299
In article <vilain-B1D9DA.17522111052014@news.individual.net>,
 Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:

> If he can do it, maybe you can to.  I don't know what safeguards against 
> fraud there are, but you may not see the money until the project is 
> "delivered".  So it's more like a loan than a prepayment.

Hmmm.  Definitely food for thought.  I may look into it further, but I 
still would want to work out what I can offer funders that is more 
encouraging than the common "wait for months before you get anything 
useful".

-- 
iPhone apps that matter:    http://appstore.subsume.com/
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, localhost, googlegroups.com, teranews.com,
    and probably your server, too.

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#59300 — Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)

FromInvid Fan <invid@loclanet.com>
Date2014-05-11 21:25 -0400
SubjectRe: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)
Message-ID<110520142125494896%invid@loclanet.com>
In reply to#59295
In article <droleary-EEEC65.16403111052014@news.eternal-september.org>,
Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> wrote:

> That's great, but it doesn't address my issue.  It just doesn't seem to 
> be in the (ideal) spirt of crowdfunding to simply use it as a pre-order 
> mechanism.  Or perhaps times have changed already and that's all 
> crowdfunding has become.  Somebody let me know, because I'd be much 
> happier if I could get people to fund my work ahead of time while I 
> could bank all the dough and in the end only give them the product they 
> would have gotten if they'd just waited a bit.
> 
I consider that the entire point of Kickstarter. There are things which
can't be created unless they are funded up front. For example, most of
my uses are for web comic artists who can not print up books unless
they have the cash on hand to pay for a 2000 copy print run. I pledge
my money, and later get the book. The site specifically says it's not
for charitable donations.

-- 
Chris Mack       "If we show any weakness, the monsters will get cocky!"
'Invid Fan'             - 'Yokai Monsters Along With Ghosts'

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#59324 — Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)

FromDoc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com>
Date2014-05-12 11:53 -0500
SubjectRe: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)
Message-ID<droleary-0BBA64.11534212052014@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#59300
In article <110520142125494896%invid@loclanet.com>,
 Invid Fan <invid@loclanet.com> wrote:

> I consider that the entire point of Kickstarter. There are things which
> can't be created unless they are funded up front. For example, most of
> my uses are for web comic artists who can not print up books unless
> they have the cash on hand to pay for a 2000 copy print run. I pledge
> my money, and later get the book.

Right; that makes sense to me.  Software development is a different 
beast, though, especially when a company has a 1.x version already 
selling.

It probably also doesn't help that I proposed an open software project 
to Kickstarter way back in 2010 when they were just beginning and they 
said it wasn't a fit.  That soured my view, but maybe I need to reassess.

-- 
iPhone apps that matter:    http://appstore.subsume.com/
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, localhost, googlegroups.com, teranews.com,
    and probably your server, too.

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#59312 — Re: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)

Frombilly@MIX.COM
Date2014-05-12 10:29 +0000
SubjectRe: Of what value is Usenet? (Re: POP3 vs. IMAP)
Message-ID<lkq7qa$al0$1@reader2.panix.com>
In reply to#59295
Doc O'Leary <droleary@8usenet2013.subsume.com> writes, quoting me:

> That's great, but it doesn't address my issue.  It just doesn't seem to 
> be in the (ideal) spirt of crowdfunding to simply use it as a pre-order 
> mechanism.  Or perhaps times have changed already and that's all 
> crowdfunding has become.  Somebody let me know, because I'd be much 
> happier if I could get people to fund my work ahead of time while I 
> could bank all the dough and in the end only give them the product they 
> would have gotten if they'd just waited a bit.

If you could read, you'd know the wait would been considerably longer.

> > Where are the thousands of approved free trials of non-game programs?
> 
> Don't know.  It's hard to find useful non-game software in the App 
> Store.  Here's one:
> 
> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ican-print/id448566661?mt=8
> 
> "There are free trial points. After trial points are exhausted, print is 
> NOT FREE."
> 
> Now stop moving the goal posts, simply admit you were mistaken, and 
> change your position.

That's not great, nor does it address my issue.  Where's the free trial
of something even remotely close to the newsreader you're writing?  You
know - any sort of real program, that runs on something besides a phone.

> If you can't, I'm done with you.

Bye.

Billy Y..
-- 
        sub     #'9+1   ,r0             ; convert ascii byte
	add     #9.+1   ,r0             ; to an integer
	bcc     20$                     ; not a number

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