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Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything?

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  Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? Matthew Lybanon <lybanon@earthlink.net> - 2013-10-26 13:25 -0500
    Re: Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-10-26 19:35 +0000
    Re: Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-10-26 18:35 -0400
    Re: Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-26 19:03 -0400
      Re: Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-27 12:22 +1300
        Re: Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-26 20:24 -0400
      Re: Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2013-10-27 20:10 +0000
        Re: Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-10-27 21:38 +0000
        Re: Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-10-27 19:00 -0400
    Re: Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-10-27 13:15 +1300
      Re: Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? Matthew Lybanon <lybanon@earthlink.net> - 2013-10-27 11:35 -0500
        Re: Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-10-27 15:52 -0400
        Re: Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-10-27 21:05 +0000
    Re: Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-10-27 19:49 +0000

#50782 — Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything?

Mac OS X 10.8.5.

After installing several system updates I ran Disk Utility's Repair Disk 
Permissions.  Because "Show details" gave a fairly long list of 
(presumably) repairs, I ran it again, just to see what would happen.  It 
found what I think is the same list of things to repair (I didn't check 
every one, but it was a similarly long list and several items were 
repeats of items in the first list), and again claimed to fix them.

I know it looks like I've answered my own question, but I'd like to know 
what other people think.

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#50793

In message <lybanon-16BC8B.13253226102013@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net> 
  Matthew Lybanon <lybanon@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Mac OS X 10.8.5.

> After installing several system updates I ran Disk Utility's Repair Disk 
> Permissions.

Don't do that.

>  Because "Show details" gave a fairly long list of 
> (presumably) repairs, I ran it again, just to see what would happen.  It 
> found what I think is the same list of things to repair (I didn't check 
> every one, but it was a similarly long list and several items were 
> repeats of items in the first list), and again claimed to fix them.

Yep, that's a good example of why not to do that.

-- 
Han Solo: Damn fool, I knew you were going to say that.  Ben: Who's
the more foolish, the fool, or the fool who follows him?

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#50811

On 10/26/13 2:25 PM, Matthew Lybanon wrote:
> Mac OS X 10.8.5.
>
> After installing several system updates I ran Disk Utility's Repair Disk
> Permissions.  Because "Show details" gave a fairly long list of
> (presumably) repairs, I ran it again, just to see what would happen.  It
> found what I think is the same list of things to repair (I didn't check
> every one, but it was a similarly long list and several items were
> repeats of items in the first list), and again claimed to fix them.
>
> I know it looks like I've answered my own question, but I'd like to know
> what other people think.
>
Is it iTunes? I've read that the latest update confuses Disk Utility's 
Verify Permissions.

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#50816

On 2013.10.26, 14:25 , Matthew Lybanon wrote:
> Mac OS X 10.8.5.
>
> After installing several system updates I ran Disk Utility's Repair Disk
> Permissions.  Because "Show details" gave a fairly long list of
> (presumably) repairs, I ran it again, just to see what would happen.  It
> found what I think is the same list of things to repair (I didn't check
> every one, but it was a similarly long list and several items were
> repeats of items in the first list), and again claimed to fix them.
>
> I know it looks like I've answered my own question, but I'd like to know
> what other people think.

I haven't "repaired" permissions in over 3 years.  JR will chime in and 
say it's all but useless (for reasons I don't recall).

In short: don't bother.


-- 
"Quotation, n: The act of repeating erroneously the words of another."
                                                 -Ambrose Bierce

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#50818

In article <eL2dnVWdz4iq1_HPnZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2013.10.26, 14:25 , Matthew Lybanon wrote:
> >
> > Mac OS X 10.8.5.
> >
> > After installing several system updates I ran Disk Utility's Repair Disk
> > Permissions.  Because "Show details" gave a fairly long list of
> > (presumably) repairs, I ran it again, just to see what would happen.  It
> > found what I think is the same list of things to repair (I didn't check
> > every one, but it was a similarly long list and several items were
> > repeats of items in the first list), and again claimed to fix them.
> >
> > I know it looks like I've answered my own question, but I'd like to know
> > what other people think.
> 
> I haven't "repaired" permissions in over 3 years. JR will chime in and 
> say it's all but useless (for reasons I don't recall).
> 
> In short: don't bother.

Repair Permissions is uesful for what it is designed to do (which isn't
much) ... BUT it is definitely not the "cure all" solution which many
people tend to believe it is. 

Since it doesn't take a huge amount of time nor do anything
troublesome, it is perhaps worth trying as a first option. It's a bit
like the usual help desk recommendation of switching the computer or
modem off and on again - it may work, but it's not likely to fix any
real problems.  :-)

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#50831

On 2013.10.26, 19:22 , Your Name wrote:
> In article <eL2dnVWdz4iq1_HPnZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2013.10.26, 14:25 , Matthew Lybanon wrote:
>>>
>>> Mac OS X 10.8.5.
>>>
>>> After installing several system updates I ran Disk Utility's Repair Disk
>>> Permissions.  Because "Show details" gave a fairly long list of
>>> (presumably) repairs, I ran it again, just to see what would happen.  It
>>> found what I think is the same list of things to repair (I didn't check
>>> every one, but it was a similarly long list and several items were
>>> repeats of items in the first list), and again claimed to fix them.
>>>
>>> I know it looks like I've answered my own question, but I'd like to know
>>> what other people think.
>>
>> I haven't "repaired" permissions in over 3 years. JR will chime in and
>> say it's all but useless (for reasons I don't recall).
>>
>> In short: don't bother.
>
> Repair Permissions is uesful for what it is designed to do (which isn't
> much) ... BUT it is definitely not the "cure all" solution which many
> people tend to believe it is.
>
> Since it doesn't take a huge amount of time nor do anything
> troublesome, it is perhaps worth trying as a first option. It's a bit
> like the usual help desk recommendation of switching the computer or
> modem off and on again - it may work, but it's not likely to fix any
> real problems.  :-)

It never solved anything for me so wouldn't bother.

OTOH, "Repair Disk" has worked on at least one issue I had - though I 
had to boot into safe mode (or somesuch) for it to function.

-- 
"Quotation, n: The act of repeating erroneously the words of another."
                                                 -Ambrose Bierce

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#50912

Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
> JR will chime in and say it's all but useless

Right on cue! He had his very long canned response right at the ready.

-- 
K.

Lang may your lum reek.

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#50938

On 2013-10-27, Király <me@home.spamsucks.ca> wrote:
> Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>> JR will chime in and say it's all but useless
>
> Right on cue! He had his very long canned response right at the ready.

Guilty. : )

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#50959

On 13-10-27 16:10, Király wrote:
> Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>> JR will chime in and say it's all but useless
> 
> Right on cue! He had his very long canned response right at the ready.

There is no love lost betwen JR and me.  But in this particular case,
Jolly's response was constructive and informative on how the repaid
permissions work and factual about the areas where there are problems.

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#50824

Matthew Lybanon <lybanon@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Mac OS X 10.8.5.
> 
> After installing several system updates I ran Disk Utility's Repair Disk
> Permissions.  Because "Show details" gave a fairly long list of 
> (presumably) repairs, I ran it again, just to see what would happen.  It
> found what I think is the same list of things to repair (I didn't check
> every one, but it was a similarly long list and several items were 
> repeats of items in the first list), and again claimed to fix them.
> 
> I know it looks like I've answered my own question, but I'd like to know
> what other people think.

First of all it only works for Apple installed software that keeps a
receipt, secondly it's only going to reset permissions on that set of
software to what the installer thought at the time of install they
should be, and thirdly - and related to my second point -  you may be
creating additional problems by changing permissions  that were altered
in ways that OS X never recorded, but were valid, even necessary.

I can really only think of one instance since I began using and
supporting OS X, that this process had any value. While the chances are
slim that you'll create additional issues, the chances are even slimmer
you'll fix anything you think may be permission related with Apple
software.

So I'd avoid unnecessary 'repairing' of permissions. I'm not even sure
why Apple keeps that around. It's created more problems and wasted more
time than it ever did any good.

-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#50889

In article <1lbeho7.9zgj1y1t7kfa2N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
 jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:

> Matthew Lybanon <lybanon@earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> > Mac OS X 10.8.5.
> > 
> > After installing several system updates I ran Disk Utility's Repair Disk
> > Permissions.  Because "Show details" gave a fairly long list of 
> > (presumably) repairs, I ran it again, just to see what would happen.  It
> > found what I think is the same list of things to repair (I didn't check
> > every one, but it was a similarly long list and several items were 
> > repeats of items in the first list), and again claimed to fix them.
> > 
> > I know it looks like I've answered my own question, but I'd like to know
> > what other people think.
> 
> First of all it only works for Apple installed software that keeps a
> receipt, 

As I said, I ran Repair Disk Permissions after System Update (one of the 
programs updated was Safari).  Is that Apple installed software that 
keeps a receipt?  I have no idea.

The point is, Repair Disk Permissions SAID that it repaired a long list 
of permissions, but when I ran it again all the same permissions still 
needed to be repaired.

secondly it's only going to reset permissions on that set of
> software to what the installer thought at the time of install they
> should be, and thirdly - and related to my second point -  you may be
> creating additional problems by changing permissions  that were altered
> in ways that OS X never recorded, but were valid, even necessary.
> 
> I can really only think of one instance since I began using and
> supporting OS X, that this process had any value. While the chances are
> slim that you'll create additional issues, the chances are even slimmer
> you'll fix anything you think may be permission related with Apple
> software.
> 
> So I'd avoid unnecessary 'repairing' of permissions. I'm not even sure
> why Apple keeps that around. It's created more problems and wasted more
> time than it ever did any good.

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#50908

On 10/27/13 12:35 PM, Matthew Lybanon wrote:
> As I said, I ran Repair Disk Permissions after System Update (one of the
> programs updated was Safari).  Is that Apple installed software that
> keeps a receipt?  I have no idea.
>
> The point is, Repair Disk Permissions SAID that it repaired a long list
> of permissions, but when I ran it again all the same permissions still
> needed to be repaired.

What apps does the list say these permissions are from?

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#50934

In message <lybanon-1B4B37.11352127102013@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net> 
  Matthew Lybanon <lybanon@earthlink.net> wrote:
> In article <1lbeho7.9zgj1y1t7kfa2N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
>  jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:

>> Matthew Lybanon <lybanon@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> 
>> > Mac OS X 10.8.5.
>> > 
>> > After installing several system updates I ran Disk Utility's Repair Disk
>> > Permissions.  Because "Show details" gave a fairly long list of 
>> > (presumably) repairs, I ran it again, just to see what would happen.  It
>> > found what I think is the same list of things to repair (I didn't check
>> > every one, but it was a similarly long list and several items were 
>> > repeats of items in the first list), and again claimed to fix them.
>> > 
>> > I know it looks like I've answered my own question, but I'd like to know
>> > what other people think.
>> 
>> First of all it only works for Apple installed software that keeps a
>> receipt, 

> As I said, I ran Repair Disk Permissions after System Update (one of the 
> programs updated was Safari).  Is that Apple installed software that 
> keeps a receipt?  I have no idea.

Don't run Repair Disk Permissions.

> The point is, Repair Disk Permissions SAID that it repaired a long list 
> of permissions, but when I ran it again all the same permissions still 
> needed to be repaired.

Right. It does that. That's one of the many reasons not to run it.

-- 
"I do not feel obliged to believe that same God who endowed us with
sense, reason, and intellect had intended for us to forego their use."

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#50907

On 2013-10-26, Matthew Lybanon <lybanon@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Mac OS X 10.8.5.
>
> After installing several system updates I ran Disk Utility's Repair Disk 
> Permissions.  Because "Show details" gave a fairly long list of 
> (presumably) repairs, I ran it again, just to see what would happen.  It 
> found what I think is the same list of things to repair (I didn't check 
> every one, but it was a similarly long list and several items were 
> repeats of items in the first list), and again claimed to fix them.
>
> I know it looks like I've answered my own question, but I'd like to know 
> what other people think.

Disk Utility's Repair Permissions function isn't as magical a tool as a
lot of people seem to assume. It's a very simple tool that is meant to
reset the states of ownership and permissions of *specific sets of
files*, and *only* those files listed in the receipts of specific
software in the receipts folder. This receipts folder is located at
/Library/Receipts in Mac OS X versions prior to 10.6, and was moved to
/private/var/db/receipts starting with version 10.6.

Repair Permissions reads the contents of each receipt in the receipts
folder to find out which files and folders it should examine. Receipts
are typically created by software installers that use the Mac OS X
built-in /Applications/Utilities/Installer program to install a software
package, though they may be placed into the receipts folder by other
means as well. Receipts typically contain a "Bill of Materials" file
that lists of each important file and folder in the installed software
package, along with the expected ownership and permissions those files
and folders, according to the install package.

Repair Permissions examines only those files listed by these receipts.
This means the files in your home folder and the files in the local
domain (/Library for instance) are *not* examined. 

The Repair Permissions tool has a rather serious design flaw: it does
not know how to resolve cases where multiple receipts list the same file
or folder with differing ownership and permissions. This actually
happens fairly frequently, particularly when more than one software
package installs and uses a shared library or other system resource that
happens to be used by another software package. If there are multiple
receipts that list a given file or folder, and the expected ownership
and permissions differ between those two receipts, Repair Permissions
will encounter the first receipt, change the ownership and permissions
to honor that receipt, then encounter the second receipt and change the
ownership and permissions to honor the second receipt. This typically
manifests itself in Disk Utility's Repair Permissions log as a
file/folder that never seems to be actually repaired, flipping back and
forth between two states.

Once you understand how it works, you see Repair Permissions is not half
as useful or magical as a lot of people seem to believe. I wish more
people understood this - we probably wouldn't see so many Mac users
running Repair Permissions at the drop of the hat or on a regular
schedule as we see so often.  ; )

Bottom line: If you are not experiencing problems with a specific piece
of software listed in the receipts folder, there's no reason to run
Repair Permissions.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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