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The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question

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  The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-26 08:43 -0400
    Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2013-09-26 13:14 +0000
      Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-26 16:43 -0400
        Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-09-27 09:24 +1200
        Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2013-09-27 09:49 +1200
          Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-26 17:56 -0400
        Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-09-26 19:02 -0400
          Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-26 20:20 -0400
            Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-09-26 21:52 -0400
              Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-28 07:43 -0400
    Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-09-26 13:53 +0000
      Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-09-26 08:23 -0700
        Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-26 16:55 -0400
          Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-26 17:08 -0400
            Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-26 17:26 -0400
        Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-09-27 09:32 +1200
          Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-26 17:55 -0400
            Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-09-26 16:08 -0700
              Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-26 20:22 -0400
          Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-09-26 15:54 -0700
          Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-09-26 19:23 -0400
            Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-26 19:29 -0400
            Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-09-27 19:08 +1200
              Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-09-27 03:41 -0400
              Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-09-27 07:44 -0700
                Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-09-28 09:37 +1200
      Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-26 16:51 -0400
        Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-26 17:08 -0400
          Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-26 17:25 -0400
    Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-26 10:28 -0400
      Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-26 16:52 -0400
        Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-26 17:08 -0400
          Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-26 17:25 -0400
    Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-09-26 15:51 -0400
      Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-26 15:59 -0400
        Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-09-26 16:08 -0400
          Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-26 16:16 -0400
          Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-09-26 13:19 -0700
          Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-09-27 09:28 +1200
            Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-09-26 15:47 -0700
      Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-26 17:22 -0400
        Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2013-09-27 11:01 +1200
          Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-26 20:19 -0400
            Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-09-26 22:09 -0400
              Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2013-09-27 16:31 +1200
                Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-09-27 00:54 -0400
              Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2013-09-29 20:33 +0200
            Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2013-09-27 14:42 +1200
              Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2013-09-29 21:02 +0200
                Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-09-30 01:51 -0400
                  Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-01 09:22 +1200
                  Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2013-10-01 12:45 +1300
    Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question billy@MIX.COM - 2013-09-26 22:51 +0000
      Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-26 18:55 -0400
        Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2013-09-29 17:02 +0200
          Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-29 17:44 -0400
    Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Andreas Rutishauser <andreas@macandreas.ch> - 2013-09-27 08:33 +0200
      Re: The usual dumbass Migration Assistant Question Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-28 07:45 -0400

Page 3 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3]

#49051

On 2013.09.26 15:51 , JF Mezei wrote:
> On 13-09-26 08:43, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>> My plan is to migrate-assist only apps and transfer user data in the BG
>> when up and running.
>
> If that is the case, make sure yoiur new user account on the new machine
> has the same GUID UUID as on the old machine. In unix security, username
> doesn't count, its the numbers behind it.

This is the sort of thing I was really looking for.  Please clarify:

-     Setup assistant does this   Y / N

- Migration assistant does this   Y / N.

-  Are my user files (docs, pictures, etc.) on this machine the 
"property" of the UUID?

- How would copied files (docs, pictures, music, etc.) be affected if I 
simply copied them from the old machine to the new?  (Can't see why/how 
this could even be an issue).

- does it affect file permissions after the transfer?

>
> What you did not mention is whether the new machine will have same OS
> version or not.

My current iMac is 10.8.5 and I assume the new one will be 10.8.x.

>
> Also, will the two machines be hardwired together for the initial
> transfer and then ethernet for rest, or will it be ethernet for both ?

Ethernet and Ethernet.

>
> With regards to Photoshop:
>
> There is stuff spread around the system that may not be caught by
> migration assistant. For instance in /Library/Preferences, there is a
> "Flexnet" directiory which contains the authorisations for your various
> adobe packages.

There is only one I need to worry about and at worst I can re-authorize 
it with the license.

>
> So after migration assistant has done its job, you can go through the
> new /Library to make sure it caught everything adobe related.
>
> If you re-install from scratch, you lose your preferences and default to
> the garish look by default.

Probably my default anyway.

>
>
>> - What happens to licensed s/w such as Photoshop?  Do I have to
>> de-authorize on the source and authorize on target?
>
> Since Adobe no longer sells licensed software, there is not much point
> in going out of your way to manage your licenses. Just copy the software.

Without entering the license CS5 will not work 30 days after install. 
Having it on more that 2 machines violates the license.


-- 
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."
                                                  -Unknown

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#49070

Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> On 2013.09.26 15:51 , JF Mezei wrote:
> > On 13-09-26 08:43, Alan Browne wrote:
> >
> >> My plan is to migrate-assist only apps and transfer user data in the BG
> >> when up and running.
> >
> > If that is the case, make sure yoiur new user account on the new machine
> > has the same GUID UUID as on the old machine. In unix security, username
> > doesn't count, its the numbers behind it.

I'm not aware of the UUID associated with the account being particularly
important as far as migration of accounts is concerned. It is the Unix
"User ID" of the account which causes complications if it gets changed.

> This is the sort of thing I was really looking for.  Please clarify:
> 
> -     Setup assistant does this   Y / N
> 
> - Migration assistant does this   Y / N.

They have exactly the same logic (and engine) for transferring accounts.

In both cases, if an account already exists on the destination machine
with the same User ID, Migration or Setup Assistant will automatically
assign the next available User ID and adjust file ownership accordingly
while doing the transfer.

The only "special case" is that if you use Setup Assistant to transfer
accounts on initial setup of a new Mac (or a freshly installed OS on a
bare drive), there is no possibility of there being a conflicting User
ID, so it is guaranteed to transfer your account with the same User IDs.

If you set up a new Mac without transferring accounts, Setup Assistant
asks for your details to set up a new account, and that account is
assigned User ID 501. Accounts subsequently created in System
Preferences have User IDs 502, 503, etc.

If your old computer only has one account, it is probably user ID 501.
If you created additional accounts and the one you normally use is not
the one that was created during initial setup, then it will have a
higher user ID and you are less likely to have problems with doing a
migration after initial setup.

You can check the user ID being used by your existing accounts via
System Preferences > Accounts (or Users & Groups). Unlock the padlock,
then Control-click on the account name and choose Advanced Options. This
shows various details like the home folder, user ID, etc. As noted
there, avoid changing anything as you are likely to break something if
you don't know how to do it safely.

There can also be issues with conflicting account names and/or a
conflicting home folder, even if the user IDs differ: Migration/Setup
Assistant will change the account name and adjust the name of the
transferred home folder if necessary (I vaguely recall seeing some
additional options the last time I ran into this).

The user visible long account name doesn't affect migration, doesn't
need to be unique, and can be changed at any time.

> -  Are my user files (docs, pictures, etc.) on this machine the 
> "property" of the UUID?

They are owned by the User ID. Each User ID is associated with a
particular account name on your system (but could be associated with a
different account name on a different system).

> - How would copied files (docs, pictures, music, etc.) be affected if I
> simply copied them from the old machine to the new?  (Can't see why/how
> this could even be an issue).

As long as your accounts have the same user ID on both systems, this
won't be a problem.

If they have different user IDs, then the copy may fail due to
permission errors (or an inability to access the destination or source
folder at all).

> - does it affect file permissions after the transfer?

Not usually, provided the files are owned by the same user ID and there
aren't any ACLs on the destination folders which force changes.

If you copy files belonging to a different user ID, for which you have
read access, then the copies are owned by your user ID.

> > What you did not mention is whether the new machine will have same OS
> > version or not.
> 
> My current iMac is 10.8.5 and I assume the new one will be 10.8.x.

Late 2012 iMac must be 10.8.2 or later.

The minor version (e.g. 10.8.2 vs 10.8.5) isn't important for migration,
but you can't migrate from a newer major version to an older one (e.g.
10.8.x to 10.7.x).

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#49075

On 2013.09.26 19:01 , David Empson wrote:
> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2013.09.26 15:51 , JF Mezei wrote:
>>> On 13-09-26 08:43, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>
>>>> My plan is to migrate-assist only apps and transfer user data in the BG
>>>> when up and running.
>>>
>>> If that is the case, make sure yoiur new user account on the new machine
>>> has the same GUID UUID as on the old machine. In unix security, username
>>> doesn't count, its the numbers behind it.
>
> I'm not aware of the UUID associated with the account being particularly
> important as far as migration of accounts is concerned. It is the Unix
> "User ID" of the account which causes complications if it gets changed.
>
>> This is the sort of thing I was really looking for.  Please clarify:
>>
>> -     Setup assistant does this   Y / N
>>
>> - Migration assistant does this   Y / N.
>
> They have exactly the same logic (and engine) for transferring accounts.
>
> In both cases, if an account already exists on the destination machine
> with the same User ID, Migration or Setup Assistant will automatically
> assign the next available User ID and adjust file ownership accordingly
> while doing the transfer.
>
> The only "special case" is that if you use Setup Assistant to transfer
> accounts on initial setup of a new Mac (or a freshly installed OS on a
> bare drive), there is no possibility of there being a conflicting User
> ID, so it is guaranteed to transfer your account with the same User IDs.
>
> If you set up a new Mac without transferring accounts, Setup Assistant
> asks for your details to set up a new account, and that account is
> assigned User ID 501. Accounts subsequently created in System
> Preferences have User IDs 502, 503, etc.
>
> If your old computer only has one account, it is probably user ID 501.

It is still 501.  Admin is 502.  Guest is 201 (I don't think I ever ran 
that).

> If you created additional accounts and the one you normally use is not
> the one that was created during initial setup, then it will have a
> higher user ID and you are less likely to have problems with doing a
> migration after initial setup.
>
> You can check the user ID being used by your existing accounts via
> System Preferences > Accounts (or Users & Groups). Unlock the padlock,
> then Control-click on the account name and choose Advanced Options. This
> shows various details like the home folder, user ID, etc. As noted
> there, avoid changing anything as you are likely to break something if
> you don't know how to do it safely.
>
> There can also be issues with conflicting account names and/or a
> conflicting home folder, even if the user IDs differ: Migration/Setup
> Assistant will change the account name and adjust the name of the
> transferred home folder if necessary (I vaguely recall seeing some
> additional options the last time I ran into this).
>
> The user visible long account name doesn't affect migration, doesn't
> need to be unique, and can be changed at any time.
>
>> -  Are my user files (docs, pictures, etc.) on this machine the
>> "property" of the UUID?
>
> They are owned by the User ID. Each User ID is associated with a
> particular account name on your system (but could be associated with a
> different account name on a different system).
>
>> - How would copied files (docs, pictures, music, etc.) be affected if I
>> simply copied them from the old machine to the new?  (Can't see why/how
>> this could even be an issue).
>
> As long as your accounts have the same user ID on both systems, this
> won't be a problem.
>
> If they have different user IDs, then the copy may fail due to
> permission errors (or an inability to access the destination or source
> folder at all).
>
>> - does it affect file permissions after the transfer?
>
> Not usually, provided the files are owned by the same user ID and there
> aren't any ACLs on the destination folders which force changes.


Thanks David,

Unless I really misunderstood the UUID bit above, I assume that if the 
new account on the new machine is UUID 501 (and that's what should be 
created) and the current account on the current machine is also 501 that 
all files in:

- Documents
- Music
- Pictures
- Movies
- Dropbox
- Public

can be manually copied after Migration and be usable by the "new" 501 
(same permissions)

I assume the non-OS included apps will come with Migration (as I'll 
leave that checked)

As to ACL's I could remove them from the old machine before the last 
backup I suppose (I have a few folders there (Music, Movies, Dropbox, 
Public, iTunes Music)) just to be clean.

This gives me more inclination to setup the account on the new machine 
using Migration (for the apps, etc, but not my data) and then pull those 
over at leisure.  I'd just have to be sure the new Account is 501 before 
copying the files.

Can (should) I rename my old machine "AlanMac" to something different first?

Can (shouldn't) I rename my old account "AB" to something different first?

Thanks!

-- 
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."
                                                  -Unknown

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#49080

On 13-09-26 20:19, Alan Browne wrote:

> It is still 501.  Admin is 502.  Guest is 201 (I don't think I ever ran 
> that).

As long as the GUID and UUID are the same, this is what counts.

ls -l -n -e of your home directory on old and new machines should
confirm they are the same or different.

( -l is long, -b is for numeric guid and uuid, -e shows ACLs)




> Unless I really misunderstood the UUID bit above, I assume that if the 
> new account on the new machine is UUID 501 (and that's what should be 
> created) and the current account on the current machine is also 501 that 
> all files in:
> 
> - Documents
> - Music
> - Pictures
> - Movies
> - Dropbox
> - Public
> 
> can be manually copied after Migration and be usable by the "new" 501 
> (same permissions)

In real life, correct. But pedantically, there are some caveats. You
also want the group ID to be the same. And ACLs may or may not be copied
depending on how you make the copy across the systems.

What is really frustrating about Finder copies is that if there is a
problem, you don't really know about it and you end up with a partially
opoulated directory and no way to know which file is partially copied in
it. using command line tools is better for such lareg copies since you
have a log of what was copied and why it didn't succeed on the last
file. dd and cp are your friends on that.

You can also try to zip files and copy the zipped file accross. For some
situations, they may save time because the time saved for the copy
operation is greater than time needed for zip/unzip. (or use compressed
.DMGs).



> Can (should) I rename my old machine "AlanMac" to something different first?

Because the rename isn't 100% complete when using the GUI, you are
better off naming yoru newborn with the right name first, and renaming
the older machine before. The old machine will retain a few hints of the
original name, mostly at the command/unix level.

> Can (shouldn't) I rename my old account "AB" to something different first?

Nop. You don't want to do that, and you don't need to do that. When you
use the ew machine to access your old machine via AFP, you authenticate
using the old machine,s credentials. And they can be the same as on your
new machine because they are in fact independent.

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#49086

JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> On 13-09-26 20:19, Alan Browne wrote:
> 
> > It is still 501.  Admin is 502.  Guest is 201 (I don't think I ever ran
> > that).
> 
> As long as the GUID and UUID are the same, this is what counts.

Please don't call them "GUID" and "UUID". That isn't what Apple calls
the fields you are referring to. The correct names are "Group ID" and
"User ID", which are shorted to "gid" and "uid" in some command line
tools (such as 'id').

GUID and UUID have specific meanings ("Globally Unique Identfier" and
"Universally Unique Identifier"). As it happens, accounts on Mac OS X do
have a "UUID", but it is not important for managing account migration,
and is not the same thing as the "User ID".

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#49087

On 13-09-27 00:31, David Empson wrote:

> Please don't call them "GUID" and "UUID". That isn't what Apple calls
> the fields you are referring to. The correct names are "Group ID" and
> "User ID", which are shorted to "gid" and "uid" in some command line
> tools (such as 'id').


Thanks for reminder. I knew GUID didn't sound right.  It is also used to
refer to EFI comptible disk partitions.

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#49158

In article <5244e8d5$0$50639$c3e8da3$92d0a893@news.astraweb.com>,
 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> On 13-09-26 20:19, Alan Browne wrote:
> 
> > It is still 501.  Admin is 502.  Guest is 201 (I don't think I ever ran 
> > that).
>
> ls -l -n -e of your home directory on old and new machines should
> confirm they are the same or different.
> 
> ( -l is long, -n is for numeric guid and uuid, -e shows ACLs)

As a quick sanity check:

    ls -ln /Users

will give you a list of your users' gid and uid values.  Printing this 
list out when preparing for a migration provides a useful reference.

If you have external or network volumes containing user data, get a 
printout of "ls -ln" of that too.  While Migration Assistant and Setup 
Assistant can be expected to get the ownership of files in /Users 
correct, it is doubtful that it looks at other volumes (and indeed you 
wouldn't want it to change the ownership of files on a cloned backup).


> What is really frustrating about Finder copies is that if there is a
> problem, you don't really know about it and you end up with a partially
> opoulated directory and no way to know which file is partially copied in
> it. using command line tools is better for such lareg copies since you
> have a log of what was copied and why it didn't succeed on the last
> file. dd and cp are your friends on that.

Indeed. If you copy by clicking on a folder, that whole folder should be 
copied but unless you use something like Tinkertool to reveal hidden and 
system files, going into the folder, selecting all files, copying then 
pasting elsewhere isn't going to include the hidden and system files.

For example, looking in my home directory, I not only have things like 
.bashrc (my bash initialisation file), but .dropbox (containing Dropbox 
configuration details), .ssh (my ssh keys), .mysql_history, 
.sqlite_history and other useful stuff.

> You can also try to zip files and copy the zipped file accross. For some
> situations, they may save time because the time saved for the copy
> operation is greater than time needed for zip/unzip. (or use compressed
> .DMGs).

I prefer to use tar instead of zip, but that may be due to historical 
problems with zip/unzip.

There was (still is?) a problem with Finder's Archive/Unarchive utility 
when it came to merging files into an existing directory.  I came across 
this with (IIRC) the perl distribution where the main source contains a 
skeleton /doc hierarchy, and the full documentation comes in a separate 
tarball.  Using Finder's Unarchive tool, restoring the documentation 
tarball would overwrite the /doc hierarchy which came in the source 
tarball, and the result wouldn't build.

-- 
Paul Sture

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#49082

Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> On 2013.09.26 19:01 , David Empson wrote:

[...]
> > If your old computer only has one account, it is probably user ID 501.
> 
> It is still 501.  Admin is 502.  Guest is 201 (I don't think I ever ran
> that).

The guest account has its home folder deleted each time it logs out, so
it isn't important for migration. Normal and admin accounts created by
System Preferences are numbered sequentially starting at 501.

Other methods of creating accounts may use different number ranges, e.g.
Workgroup Manager (for Mac OS X Server) seems to default to using 1001
and up, but you can specify the ID when creating the account.

[...]

> Thanks David,
> 
> Unless I really misunderstood the UUID bit above, I assume that if the
> new account on the new machine is UUID 501

"UUID" and "User ID" are different things. The UUID is a Universally
Unique Identifier (basically a random 128-bit number) which is
guaranteed to be unique to all accounts on one system, and has a very
low probability of matching one generated elsewhere.

The "User ID" is a small number (may be limited to 16 bits, might be 32)
which has the same value on all systems for certain system accounts
(e.g. root) and almost always overlaps for user-created accounts on
different systems, but is unique per account within one system.

I don't know how Mac OS X uses the UUID for an account, but it is
visible in the Advanced Options for the account in System Preferences,
and I've been aware of its existence since Leopard (it may have been
introduced when Apple switched from NetInfo in 10.4 and earlier to
Directory Services in 10.5 and later).

> (and that's what should be created) and the current account on the current
> machine is also 501 that all files in:
> 
> - Documents
> - Music
> - Pictures
> - Movies
> - Dropbox
> - Public
> 
> can be manually copied after Migration and be usable by the "new" 501
> (same permissions)

Public has one issue to watch: the Drop Box in there has unusual
permissions (others can write but not read), and that might be modified
when copying using Finder, but the rest of those folders should be OK.

On further reflection, using Finder to do a manual migration is likely
to NOT preserve unusual permissions: it probably sets up default
permissions on all copied files. I tend to use cloning or command line
tools (as root) for this sort of operation, and they usually preserve
ownership and permissions. 

The headache is the Library folder in the home folder on the source
machine. Migration/Setup Assistant knows which bits don't need to be
copied, but is a lot of fiddly work to get it right when copying
manually. You also can't copy some of it while logged in as that user on
the destination machine, because parts of it will be in use while you
are trying to replace them. That basically forces you to log into a
different account and use root privileges to copy the Library folder of
your user account, e.g. with something like ditto from the command line.

There are also likely to be several hidden files and folders in your
home folder, some of which might be important to copy.

Migration takes care of all of this, and gets most of it right. (My main
account has been migrated, upgraded or cloned from 10.2 through each
major OS version up to 10.8, spanning four computers and a few drive
replacements; I've had minor niggles once that I recall, relating to
some low level tweaks I'd done.)

If the downtime needed for migration during initial setup is a concern,
just move the contents of some big folders out of your home folder on
the source machine before doing the migration, and then you can copy
them at your leisure.

In this scenario, I'd recommend leaving the standard Documents, Music,
Pictures, Movies and Public folders where they are: they have special
permissions, which you might break by moving them, and could end up with
slightly incorrect ones created automatically on the new machine. Move
selected content out of those folders to a temporary folder somewhere
outside the home folder.

> I assume the non-OS included apps will come with Migration (as I'll 
> leave that checked)

Yes. Migration/Setup Assistant knows not to copy the standard apps, also
which ones to skip that vary between OS versions (not applicable here).

> As to ACL's I could remove them from the old machine before the last 
> backup I suppose (I have a few folders there (Music, Movies, Dropbox,
> Public, iTunes Music)) just to be clean.

Mac OS X sets up ACLs on several folders in your home folder, e.g. to
protect you against accidentally deleting Documents and similar folders.
I wouldn't recommend removing all ACLs.

> This gives me more inclination to setup the account on the new machine
> using Migration (for the apps, etc, but not my data) and then pull those
> over at leisure.

> I'd just have to be sure the new Account is 501 before copying the files.
> 
> Can (should) I rename my old machine "AlanMac" to something different first?

The computer name must be unique on the network. If you transfer network
settings during setup it may try to copy the name, and end up with a
"(2)" on the end. Up to you whether you fix this before or after.

The computer name is also used in some contexts such as Time Machine. If
you connect the same backup drive to the new machine, TM will ask if you
want to inherit its backups and keep using the same drive, but this
sometimes results in glitches like only being able to see history for
your new machine, even though the older backups are still there. I've
tended to put my old TM backup drives into storage and started a new one
when I've done a switch to a new computer, especially if the old backup
drive was mostly full. My current one is much bigger so I'll probably
continue using it on my next computer upgrade (possibly next month, if I
like the new rMBPs).

> Can (shouldn't) I rename my old account "AB" to something different first?

I don't see any need to fiddle with the account name. Changing the
account name or home folder name is also something that has to be done
carefully or you will break something.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#49159

In article <1l9v0gj.cfgks0197ecj9N%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>,
 dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote:

> Other methods of creating accounts may use different number ranges, e.g.
> Workgroup Manager (for Mac OS X Server) seems to default to using 1001
> and up, but you can specify the ID when creating the account.

Other systems such as Linux have varying allocation schemes too.

For example, an openSUSE instance here assigns all users to group 
"users", but a Scientific Linux (a free version of Red Hat) instance 
creates a separate group for each user (user Empson gets group Empson).

The numbering schemes are also different. On openSUSE, uids start at 
1000 and the "users" gid is 100.  On (my instance of) Scientific Linux 
uids start at 500 and the gid defaults to the same value as the uid, 
though it can get a different value if that gid is already in use when 
you create the account.

Where you are planning on using network login credentials to access 
files for the same user across systems it shouldn't matter, but if you 
want to do things like move disks from one system to another it makes 
sense to coordinate the uid and gid pairs across systems.

[...]
> 
> The "User ID" is a small number (may be limited to 16 bits, might be 32)
> which has the same value on all systems for certain system accounts
> (e.g. root) and almost always overlaps for user-created accounts on
> different systems, but is unique per account within one system.

My account on a FreeBSD system has a uid of >120,000.  I just checked on 
my Mountain Lion system and it copes with a value of 68000, so it's 32 
bit (or greater).
 
> I don't know how Mac OS X uses the UUID for an account, but it is
> visible in the Advanced Options for the account in System Preferences,
> and I've been aware of its existence since Leopard (it may have been
> introduced when Apple switched from NetInfo in 10.4 and earlier to
> Directory Services in 10.5 and later).

I notice that the Advanced Options dialogue of Users and Groups has the 
option to create a new value for the UUID (but at this time on a Sunday 
evening I don't feel brave enough to see what happens).

-- 
Paul Sture

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#49178

Here is a different slant to the original question:

Say I have a Mac with all sorts of tweeks.

Say it is at same OSX version as what a newer machine supports.

Could I not buy a new Mac when it comes out, and litterally clone the
disk of the old MacPro onto the new machine ?

That would fully preserve my environment, no worries about recreating
it,  changed user permissions, forgetting about tweaks I had done etc etc.

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#49187

In article <5249117b$0$50705$c3e8da3$92d0a893@news.astraweb.com>, JF
Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> Here is a different slant to the original question:
> 
> Say I have a Mac with all sorts of tweeks.
> 
> Say it is at same OSX version as what a newer machine supports.
> 
> Could I not buy a new Mac when it comes out, and litterally clone the
> disk of the old MacPro onto the new machine ?
> 
> That would fully preserve my environment, no worries about recreating
> it,  changed user permissions, forgetting about tweaks I had done etc etc.

I wouldn't do that.

Technically if it's the exact same model of computer it should work,
but if there's a difference in hardware then it's possible that the old
one doesn't haven't something in the OS the new one requires - when a
new computer is released, Apple often has to tweak the OS.

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#49199

JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> Here is a different slant to the original question:
> 
> Say I have a Mac with all sorts of tweeks.
> 
> Say it is at same OSX version as what a newer machine supports.
> 
> Could I not buy a new Mac when it comes out, and litterally clone the
> disk of the old MacPro onto the new machine ?

In most cases, not if it is a brand new machine that was just released,
but it is possible a few months later.

When a new Mac is released, it is almost always supplied with a custom
build of Mac OS X that includes an updated kernel, addtional drivers and
possibly other software needed to support that model.

The general distribution of the same nominal version of OS X is missing
those customizations and does not support the new models (the OS might
work, but poorly; in many cases it won't even boot).

Those custom modifications are usually rolled into the general
distribution of the OS (i.e. the full installer, software update, delta
and combo updates) when the next minor version is released, but
sometimes this doesn't happen until the second subsequent minor version,
and I recall one occasion where it took three minor versions before the
general release caught up.

On rare occasions when Apple has timed a new model release coinciding
with an OS X major or minor version release _and_ that new model is
relatively minor update of an existing one (in particular, it has the
same model identifier, e.g. just updated with a faster CPU in the same
family and a better GPU), the new model comes with a standard build of
the new OS.

For example, if Apple releases the new MacBook Pro, Mac Pro and Mac Mini
at the same time as Mavericks, it is almost certain that the new Mac Pro
will have a custom build of Mavericks (otherwise all of its support code
would need to be in the golden master); the MacBook Pro and Mac Mini
will have a new processor generaion and probably a new model identifier,
so they will probably also have a custom build.

That means an existing machine updated to 10.9.0 would be missing
support files for the late 2013 Mac Pro, MacBook Pro and Mac Mini.

Once the 10.9.1 update is released, it is likely to include all the
necessary support files for the new models, therefore you will probably
be able to update an existing machine to 10.9.1, clone it onto one of
the new models, and everything will work.

If 10.9.1 turns out to be a rapid bug fix release, Apple might do a
general release of 10.9.1 as well as a custom release for the new
models, and put off integrating support for the new models into the
general release until 10.9.2.

It is very likely that any install of 10.9.2 will support the new
models, and almost certain that 10.9.3 would (all assuming the new
models come with 10.9.0).

> That would fully preserve my environment, no worries about recreating
> it,  changed user permissions, forgetting about tweaks I had done etc etc.

Even if you wait until the general release has support for the new
models, there might still be some things missing, e.g. new applications
bundled only with new models outside of the OS distribution, but I'd
expect them to be re-downloadable from App Store.

For example, if Apple releases a new major version of the iLife apps
coinciding with Mavericks, they would be bundled with the new models,
but your clone would have older versions. It should be possible to
download the newer versions for free from App Store on the new Mac.
-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#49067

Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> writes:

> New iMac should be here tomorrow.  Probably won't have time
> to do much with it until next week.

If you'll be using Boot Camp & Windows, read this first -

iMac (late 2013) EFI Update 2.1
http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1684

Billy Y..
-- 
        sub     #'9+1   ,r0             ; convert ascii byte
	add     #9.+1   ,r0             ; to an integer
	bcc     20$                     ; not a number

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#49069

On 2013.09.26 18:51 , billy@MIX.COM wrote:
> Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> writes:
>
>> New iMac should be here tomorrow.  Probably won't have time
>> to do much with it until next week.
>
> If you'll be using Boot Camp & Windows, read this first -
>
> iMac (late 2013) EFI Update 2.1
> http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1684

Thx - but I'm buying a late 2012 (refurbished by Apple) and I run 
Windows under VMWare Fusion, not bootcamp.


-- 
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."
                                                  -Unknown

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#49157

In article <V-OdnZOvwqL5JtnPnZ2dnUVZ_vOdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
 Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> On 2013.09.26 18:51 , billy@MIX.COM wrote:
> > Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> writes:
> >
> >> New iMac should be here tomorrow.  Probably won't have time
> >> to do much with it until next week.
> >
> > If you'll be using Boot Camp & Windows, read this first -
> >
> > iMac (late 2013) EFI Update 2.1
> > http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1684
> 
> Thx - but I'm buying a late 2012 (refurbished by Apple) and I run 
> Windows under VMWare Fusion, not bootcamp.

Are you aware that you can use VMware Fusion run to Windows from the 
Bootcamp partition?  It's a best of both worlds thing apparently - run 
Windows on its own or as a VM within OS X.

<https://pubs.vmware.com/fusion-4/index.jsp?topic=/com.vmware.fusion.gett
ing_started.doc/fusion_getting_started_print.2.9.html>

-- 
Paul Sture

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#49161

On 2013.09.29 11:02 , Paul Sture wrote:

> Are you aware that you can use VMware Fusion run to Windows from the
> Bootcamp partition?  It's a best of both worlds thing apparently - run
> Windows on its own or as a VM within OS X.

Yes, had the discussion here with, IIRC, JR and a few others.  While it 
has it merits, what I do in Windows (which isn't often) doesn't require 
all that much oomph.  Besides managing the backup of the Windows setup 
and data is just a matter of dragging the virtual machine over to one of 
my external disks.  (about 60 GB) for that blob).

-- 
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."
                                                  -Unknown

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#49089

Salut Alan

In article <PdCdnf7sI9icsdnPnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
 Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> New iMac should be here tomorrow.  Probably won't have time to do much 
> with it until next week.
> 
> My plan is to migrate-assist only apps and transfer user data in the BG 
> when up and running.  

if "BG" means background your idea won't work, as Migration Assistant 
will be the only application that is allowed to run on both machines.

> That's the huge bulk of the machine in any case 
> and there is cruft I'd probably leave behind.  That would get me my apps 
> quickly while leaving user data for a more leisurely transfer via the 
> ethernet network (and available if needed via same) while I fool around, 
> er, carefully explore the new machine.  Comments?

I would use Setup Assistant from the very beginning.
I would not use Ethernet, I prefer FireWire (a Thunderbolt to FireWire 
Adapter might be needed if you don't have one already) Target Disk mode.

Be aware that with this method you are not tranferring from another Mac, 
but from a Volume on this Mac.
> 
> - What happens to licensed s/w such as Photoshop?  Do I have to 
> de-authorize on the source and authorize on target?

Adobe allows installaion on 2 computers afaik, but 1 should be a 
portable...

You might also think of iTuned registration, still 5 devices max on the 
same Apple ID

Cheers
Andreas

-- 
MacAndreas Rutishauser, <http://www.MacAndreas.ch> 
EDV-Dienstleistungen, Hard- und Software, Internet und Netzwerk
Beratung, Unterstuetzung und Schulung
<mailto:andreas@MacAndreas.ch>, Fon: 044 / 721 36 47

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#49111

On 2013.09.27 02:33 , Andreas Rutishauser wrote:
> Salut Alan
>
> In article <PdCdnf7sI9icsdnPnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>   Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> New iMac should be here tomorrow.  Probably won't have time to do much
>> with it until next week.
>>
>> My plan is to migrate-assist only apps and transfer user data in the BG
>> when up and running.
>
> if "BG" means background your idea won't work, as Migration Assistant
> will be the only application that is allowed to run on both machines.

That meant: Migrate assist w/o transferring the user data files; then 
when in the normal environment of OS X on both machines, transfer the 
user data while also doing other things on the new computer.

>> That's the huge bulk of the machine in any case
>> and there is cruft I'd probably leave behind.  That would get me my apps
>> quickly while leaving user data for a more leisurely transfer via the
>> ethernet network (and available if needed via same) while I fool around,
>> er, carefully explore the new machine.  Comments?
>
> I would use Setup Assistant from the very beginning.
> I would not use Ethernet, I prefer FireWire (a Thunderbolt to FireWire
> Adapter might be needed if you don't have one already) Target Disk mode.

I used Ethernet as I don't yet have the Thunderbolt adapter.

> Be aware that with this method you are not tranferring from another Mac,
> but from a Volume on this Mac.

Nice distinctions. Thanks.

In the end I used Setup Assistant.

>>
>> - What happens to licensed s/w such as Photoshop?  Do I have to
>> de-authorize on the source and authorize on target?
>
> Adobe allows installaion on 2 computers afaik, but 1 should be a
> portable...

Already done a few years ago.  My question was really "will the 
authorization follow the migration".  Easier though to deauth one and 
auth the new one.

>
> You might also think of iTuned registration, still 5 devices max on the
> same Apple ID

Good point - but I'll be abandoning the current iMac so I'd rather keep 
the iTunes devmax clean.

-- 
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."
                                                  -Unknown

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