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Energy Star turns off external hard drives? iMac usb 2.0?

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  Energy Star turns off external hard drives?  iMac usb 2.0? micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2012-08-16 12:42 -0400
    Re: Energy Star turns off external hard drives?  iMac usb 2.0? Salvatore <sal@yojimbo.hack.invalid> - 2012-08-16 16:49 +0000
      Re: Energy Star turns off external hard drives?  iMac usb 2.0? dcohenspam@talktalk.net (Daniel Cohen) - 2012-08-16 21:46 +0100
    Re: Energy Star turns off external hard drives?  iMac usb 2.0? Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2012-08-16 09:52 -0700
      Re: Energy Star turns off external hard drives?  iMac usb 2.0? micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2012-08-16 14:33 -0400
        Re: Energy Star turns off external hard drives?  iMac usb 2.0? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2012-08-16 14:50 -0400
        Re: Energy Star turns off external hard drives?  iMac usb 2.0? Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> - 2012-08-17 10:20 -0400
          Re: Energy Star turns off external hard drives?  iMac usb 2.0? micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2012-08-17 11:41 -0400
          Re: Energy Star turns off external hard drives?  iMac usb 2.0? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2012-08-17 19:35 +0000
            Re: Energy Star turns off external hard drives?  iMac usb 2.0? Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> - 2012-08-17 16:06 -0400
              Re: Energy Star turns off external hard drives?  iMac usb 2.0? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2012-08-17 20:27 +0000
                Re: Energy Star turns off external hard drives?  iMac usb 2.0? Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> - 2012-08-17 18:53 -0400
                  Re: Energy Star turns off external hard drives?  iMac usb 2.0? Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2012-08-17 16:52 -0700
                  Re: Energy Star turns off external hard drives?  iMac usb 2.0? Invid Fan <invid@loclanet.com> - 2012-08-17 22:07 -0400
                    Re: Energy Star turns off external hard drives?  iMac usb 2.0? micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2012-08-18 09:19 -0400
                      Re: Energy Star turns off external hard drives?  iMac usb 2.0? Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2012-08-18 18:50 +0200

#29578 — Energy Star turns off external hard drives? iMac usb 2.0?

When a Mac user, an iMac USB 2.0, has the harddrives set to turn off
after N minutes, does that include USB and Firewire external
harddrives?

My friend says it didn't, but he doesn't know how to get into the
right screen so maybe it's not set to turn off. .   

In this case I do't need a detailed answer, because, though it's
inconvenient, I can go over there for a few minutes. .  

If the computer is marked Energy Star, which this one is, would that
make any difference?

Thanks. 

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#29579

On 2012-08-16, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> When a Mac user, an iMac USB 2.0, has the harddrives set to turn off
> after N minutes, does that include USB and Firewire external
> harddrives?

Yes, but I know from experience that some external USB 2.0 drives will
spin down after a period of inactivity on their own, no matter what the
operating system is set to do.

> If the computer is marked Energy Star, which this one is, would that
> make any difference?

That simply means that the computer uses little power. An iMac uses
between 205 and 310 watts, which is low for a computer and a monitor.

-- 
Blah blah bleh...

GCS/CM d(-)@>-- s+:- !a C++$ UBL++++$ L+$ W+++$ w M++ Y++ b++

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#29590

Salvatore <sal@yojimbo.hack.invalid> wrote:

> I know from experience that some external USB 2.0 drives will
> spin down after a period of inactivity on their own, no matter what the
> operating system is set to do.

If one does not want that, there are several solutions. For instance,
Keep Drive Spinning.
-- 
<http://www.decohen.com>
The Labyrinth of the Heart: Changed Myths for Changing Lives 
book and e-book <http://www.decohen.com/labyrinth>
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address, not the From address.

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#29580

In article <6f8q28de37e5momlk7v72jt2oh339m2ccf@4ax.com>,
 micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> When a Mac user, an iMac USB 2.0, has the harddrives set to turn off
> after N minutes, does that include USB and Firewire external
> harddrives?
> 
> My friend says it didn't, but he doesn't know how to get into the
> right screen so maybe it's not set to turn off. .   
> 
> In this case I do't need a detailed answer, because, though it's
> inconvenient, I can go over there for a few minutes. .  
> 
> If the computer is marked Energy Star, which this one is, would that
> make any difference?
> 
> Thanks. 

Can you discuss your definition of "turn off".  Usually, when a device 
is powered down, it no longer responds to commands unless some part of 
it is actually not powered down but drawing a small amount of current to 
"listen" for power up commands.  Some would call it "sleep" rather than 
"power off".

MacOS's System Preferences has an Energy Saver panel.  You can set the 
display and system to sleep after a period.  I set mine to blank the 
display after 2 hours.  I don't allow my MacPro to sleep.  You can set 
the disk drives to 'sleep' from this panel also.  There's no granularity 
on this.  If the system goes to sleep, the drives will also.

BUT, if the drive doesn't support this sort of powered down mode, it 
doesn't matter.  Note the drives are not 'turn off'.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

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#29584

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 09:52:26 -0700, Michael Vilain
<vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:

>In article <6f8q28de37e5momlk7v72jt2oh339m2ccf@4ax.com>,
> micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>> When a Mac user, an iMac USB 2.0, has the harddrives set to turn off
>> after N minutes, does that include USB and Firewire external
>> harddrives?
>> 
>> My friend says it didn't,

That is, he could still feel it vibrating a little, because it was
spinning. 

>> but he doesn't know how to get into the
>> right screen so maybe it's not set to turn off. .   
>> 
>> In this case I do't need a detailed answer, because, though it's
>> inconvenient, I can go over there for a few minutes. .  
>> 
>> If the computer is marked Energy Star, which this one is, would that
>> make any difference?
>> 
>> Thanks. 
>
>Can you discuss your definition of "turn off".  Usually, when a device 

Sorry.  I meant spin down. 

>>is powered down, it no longer responds to commands unless some part of 
>it is actually not powered down but drawing a small amount of current to 
>"listen" for power up commands.  Some would call it "sleep" rather than 
>"power off".
>
>MacOS's System Preferences has an Energy Saver panel.  You can set the 
>display and system to sleep after a period.  I set mine to blank the 
>display after 2 hours.  I don't allow my MacPro to sleep.  You can set 
>the disk drives to 'sleep' from this panel also.  There's no granularity 
>on this.  If the system goes to sleep, the drives will also.

That would be perfect, except like y ou sayin the next line. 

>BUT, if the drive doesn't support this sort of powered down mode, it 
>doesn't matter.  

That's very important.  Thanks. 

>Note the drives are not 'turn off'.

Okay.    

Thanks Michael and Salvatore. 

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#29586

USB remains powered during sleep.  Your iPhone continues to charge for
instance, and a wired keyboard continues to respond to a keypress (to
wake the machine up).

I have a USB-Bluetooth dongle and it remains on to listed to the mouse
so that if I move the mouse, the machien wakes up.

So if a USB drive is to spin down, it would be because the mac would
send it a "spin down" command (if such a thing exists for USB drives)
and not because the USB bus is being powered down.

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#29618

In article <lreq28dia8cva1j556pitahq2oolj5tber@4ax.com>,
 micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> >BUT, if the drive doesn't support this sort of powered down mode, it 
> >doesn't matter.  
> 
> That's very important.  Thanks. 

In general, USB drives do not spin down. In general Firewire drives do, 
if they use the right Oxford bridge board. Ask the enclosure maker about 
this. While you're at it, confirm that the enclosure can boot the Mac. 
Some can't.

-- 
Remember, I'm pullin' for ya.
We're all in this together.
                  --Red Green

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#29622

On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 10:20:31 -0400, Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org>
wrote:

>In article <lreq28dia8cva1j556pitahq2oolj5tber@4ax.com>,
> micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>> >BUT, if the drive doesn't support this sort of powered down mode, it 
>> >doesn't matter.  
>> 
>> That's very important.  Thanks. 
>
>In general, USB drives do not spin down. In general Firewire drives do, 

An important distinction. 

>if they use the right Oxford bridge board. Ask the enclosure maker about 
>this. While you're at it, confirm that the enclosure can boot the Mac. 
>Some can't.

Well, I called G-Technology a week ago and confirmed that they can
boot, but didn't think to ask about spinning down.   I hate to call
again, but maybe I have too.     I wish they would say all this stuff
on their product webpages.  (For example, Ebay puts questions and
answers on their listings automatically (although I think the seller
chooses which questions get there.) 

Right now my friend is using my USB drive, which spun for a solid week
though it read and wrote nothing, , but I'm going to get him firewire
soon. 

Thanks. 

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#29630

In message <fmoore-2A6783.10203117082012@news.eternal-september.org> 
  Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> wrote:
> In article <lreq28dia8cva1j556pitahq2oolj5tber@4ax.com>,
>  micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>> >BUT, if the drive doesn't support this sort of powered down mode, it 
>> >doesn't matter.  
>> 
>> That's very important.  Thanks. 

> In general, USB drives do not spin down.

That is not at all accurate.

-- 
"Your stepmom is cute"
"Shut up, Ted"
"Remember when she was a senior and we were freshmen?"
"Shut up Ted!"

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#29632

In article <slrnk2t77j.29r.g.kreme@mbp55.local>,
 Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> In message <fmoore-2A6783.10203117082012@news.eternal-september.org> 
>   Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> wrote:
> > In article <lreq28dia8cva1j556pitahq2oolj5tber@4ax.com>,
> >  micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> 
> >> >BUT, if the drive doesn't support this sort of powered down mode, it 
> >> >doesn't matter.  
> >> 
> >> That's very important.  Thanks. 
> 
> > In general, USB drives do not spin down.
> 
> That is not at all accurate.

Then please supply some references/documentation to support your claim.

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#29635

In message <fmoore-113241.16065517082012@news.eternal-september.org> 
  Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> wrote:
> In article <slrnk2t77j.29r.g.kreme@mbp55.local>,
>  Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

>> In message <fmoore-2A6783.10203117082012@news.eternal-september.org> 
>>   Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> wrote:
>> > In article <lreq28dia8cva1j556pitahq2oolj5tber@4ax.com>,
>> >  micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> 
>> >> >BUT, if the drive doesn't support this sort of powered down mode, it 
>> >> >doesn't matter.  
>> >> 
>> >> That's very important.  Thanks. 
>> 
>> > In general, USB drives do not spin down.
>> 
>> That is not at all accurate.

> Then please supply some references/documentation to support your claim.

How about the USB3 drive connected to my PC which clearly pauses and
whirrs up when you first access it after an hour or two of not using it?

-- 
"Woof bloody woof."

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#29644

In article <slrnk2ta8p.63v.g.kreme@mbp55.local>,
 Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> In message <fmoore-113241.16065517082012@news.eternal-september.org> 
>   Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> wrote:
> > In article <slrnk2t77j.29r.g.kreme@mbp55.local>,
> >  Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> 
> >> In message <fmoore-2A6783.10203117082012@news.eternal-september.org> 
> >>   Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> wrote:
> >> > In article <lreq28dia8cva1j556pitahq2oolj5tber@4ax.com>,
> >> >  micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >> >> >BUT, if the drive doesn't support this sort of powered down mode, it 
> >> >> >doesn't matter.  
> >> >> 
> >> >> That's very important.  Thanks. 
> >> 
> >> > In general, USB drives do not spin down.
> >> 
> >> That is not at all accurate.
> 
> > Then please supply some references/documentation to support your claim.
> 
> How about the USB3 drive connected to my PC which clearly pauses and
> whirrs up when you first access it after an hour or two of not using it?

Okay, USB 3 is only recently available. I have no experience with USB 3 
hard drives. If yours spins down on system sleep, good. Thanks, now I 
know. Please note that I took the care to preface my remark about USB HD 
spin down with the phrase 'In general'. The only USB <3 drives I've ever 
encountered which did spin down with system sleep had special drivers. 
The run of the mill don't, in general.

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#29646

In article <fmoore-736ADB.18534017082012@news.eternal-september.org>,
 Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> wrote:

> In article <slrnk2ta8p.63v.g.kreme@mbp55.local>,
>  Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> 
> > In message <fmoore-113241.16065517082012@news.eternal-september.org> 
> >   Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> wrote:
> > > In article <slrnk2t77j.29r.g.kreme@mbp55.local>,
> > >  Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> > 
> > >> In message <fmoore-2A6783.10203117082012@news.eternal-september.org> 
> > >>   Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> wrote:
> > >> > In article <lreq28dia8cva1j556pitahq2oolj5tber@4ax.com>,
> > >> >  micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> > >> 
> > >> >> >BUT, if the drive doesn't support this sort of powered down mode, it 
> > >> >> >doesn't matter.  
> > >> >> 
> > >> >> That's very important.  Thanks. 
> > >> 
> > >> > In general, USB drives do not spin down.
> > >> 
> > >> That is not at all accurate.
> > 
> > > Then please supply some references/documentation to support your claim.
> > 
> > How about the USB3 drive connected to my PC which clearly pauses and
> > whirrs up when you first access it after an hour or two of not using it?
> 
> Okay, USB 3 is only recently available. I have no experience with USB 3 
> hard drives. If yours spins down on system sleep, good. Thanks, now I 
> know. Please note that I took the care to preface my remark about USB HD 
> spin down with the phrase 'In general'. The only USB <3 drives I've ever 
> encountered which did spin down with system sleep had special drivers. 
> The run of the mill don't, in general.

I have a LaCie Q2 1TB and a Seagate Freeagent 1TB drive.  They spin down 
when attached with Firewire and also via USB 2.  So I guess it's the 
interface inside the enclosure that does this.  If it was a cheaper 
enclosure, like say Western Digital (all three of their drives died 
within 3 months), that might not be the case.  The only way to test this 
hypothesis is with a large array of drives and enclosures from various 
vendors.

Why don't I just cut to the chase.

Girls, you're both pretty.

Boys, you dick isn't big enough.  Come back when you're older.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

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#29651

In article <fmoore-736ADB.18534017082012@news.eternal-september.org>,
Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> wrote:

> In article <slrnk2ta8p.63v.g.kreme@mbp55.local>,
>  Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> 
> > In message <fmoore-113241.16065517082012@news.eternal-september.org> 
> >   Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> wrote:
> > > In article <slrnk2t77j.29r.g.kreme@mbp55.local>,
> > >  Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> > 
> > >> In message <fmoore-2A6783.10203117082012@news.eternal-september.org> 
> > >>   Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> wrote:
> > >> > In article <lreq28dia8cva1j556pitahq2oolj5tber@4ax.com>,
> > >> >  micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> > >> 
> > >> >> >BUT, if the drive doesn't support this sort of powered down mode, it 
> > >> >> >doesn't matter.  
> > >> >> 
> > >> >> That's very important.  Thanks. 
> > >> 
> > >> > In general, USB drives do not spin down.
> > >> 
> > >> That is not at all accurate.
> > 
> > > Then please supply some references/documentation to support your claim.
> > 
> > How about the USB3 drive connected to my PC which clearly pauses and
> > whirrs up when you first access it after an hour or two of not using it?
> 
> Okay, USB 3 is only recently available. I have no experience with USB 3 
> hard drives. If yours spins down on system sleep, good. Thanks, now I 
> know. Please note that I took the care to preface my remark about USB HD 
> spin down with the phrase 'In general'. The only USB <3 drives I've ever 
> encountered which did spin down with system sleep had special drivers. 
> The run of the mill don't, in general.

The USB 2 drives attached to my iMac spin down. In fact, the one I use
for backup just came up now. I do know if my iMac goes to sleep and I
have a USB flash drive plugged in, on waking I get an error that a disk
wasn't ejected properly so I assume that doesn't like sleep...

-- 
Chris Mack       "If we show any weakness, the monsters will get cocky!"
'Invid Fan'             - 'Yokai Monsters Along With Ghosts'

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#29663

On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 22:07:21 -0400, Invid Fan <invid@loclanet.com>
wrote:

>In article <fmoore-736ADB.18534017082012@news.eternal-september.org>,
>Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> wrote:
>
>> In article <slrnk2ta8p.63v.g.kreme@mbp55.local>,
>>  Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> 
>> > In message <fmoore-113241.16065517082012@news.eternal-september.org> 
>> >   Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> wrote:
>> > > In article <slrnk2t77j.29r.g.kreme@mbp55.local>,
>> > >  Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> > 
>> > >> In message <fmoore-2A6783.10203117082012@news.eternal-september.org> 
>> > >>   Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> wrote:
>> > >> > In article <lreq28dia8cva1j556pitahq2oolj5tber@4ax.com>,
>> > >> >  micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> > >> 
>> > >> >> >BUT, if the drive doesn't support this sort of powered down mode, it 
>> > >> >> >doesn't matter.  
>> > >> >> 
>> > >> >> That's very important.  Thanks. 
>> > >> 
>> > >> > In general, USB drives do not spin down.
>> > >> 
>> > >> That is not at all accurate.
>> > 
>> > > Then please supply some references/documentation to support your claim.
>> > 
>> > How about the USB3 drive connected to my PC which clearly pauses and
>> > whirrs up when you first access it after an hour or two of not using it?
>> 
>> Okay, USB 3 is only recently available. I have no experience with USB 3 
>> hard drives. If yours spins down on system sleep, good. Thanks, now I 
>> know. Please note that I took the care to preface my remark about USB HD 
>> spin down with the phrase 'In general'. The only USB <3 drives I've ever 
>> encountered which did spin down with system sleep had special drivers. 
>> The run of the mill don't, in general.
>
>The USB 2 drives attached to my iMac spin down. In fact, the one I use
>for backup just came up now. I do know if my iMac goes to sleep and I
>have a USB flash drive plugged in, on waking I get an error that a disk
>wasn't ejected properly so I assume that doesn't like sleep...
 
IIUC, since the iMac doesn't go to sleep if it's in the middle of
doing something, your flash drive data and data structure is still
fine, even though you got that error on it whn the computer woke up.
Right?

And the bigger question I've had is, "If you know you have NOT copied
anything to an external drive for say, 10 minutes -- you have no
automatic backups or anything else automatic that would write to the
drive without your knowing--  is it it really necessary to eject a USB
drive properly?

What about "write behind" or "write ahead" (read ahead?)?   Does that
apply and cause problems, when 10 minutes or more have passed since
you wrote to the drive?

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#29673

On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 09:19:22 -0400, micky wrote:

> And the bigger question I've had is, "If you know you have NOT copied
> anything to an external drive for say, 10 minutes -- you have no
> automatic backups or anything else automatic that would write to the
> drive without your knowing--  is it it really necessary to eject a USB
> drive properly?
> 
> What about "write behind" or "write ahead" (read ahead?)?   Does that
> apply and cause problems, when 10 minutes or more have passed since you
> wrote to the drive?

Windows has a setting called something like "safe removal" for USB 
sticks.  I assume this simply flushes buffers ASAP after write operations.

FWIW I was running my old iBook booted off an external Firewire drive.  
In the event of a power cut the iBook would survive on battery power but 
the disk would go down.  If I was doing anything at the time, the disk 
wouldn't come back in time and the system would freeze.  Sometimes I 
would get lucky and it would come back, but that was quite rare.  I 
assumed that page file activity was the culprit and OS X (10.4) couldn't 
cope with that stalling.

-- 
Paul Sture

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