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Moving portables while running.

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  Moving portables while running. dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2012-03-25 14:26 +1100
    Re: Moving portables while running. HelpfulHarry@BusyWorking.com (Helpful Harry) - 2012-03-25 17:18 +1200
      Re: Moving portables while running. dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2012-03-25 21:59 +1100
        Re: Moving portables while running. Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2012-03-25 13:32 -0400
          Re: Moving portables while running. dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2012-03-26 09:38 +1100
            Re: Moving portables while running. Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2012-03-25 19:07 -0400
      Re: Moving portables while running. Bruce Esquibel <bje@ripco.com> - 2012-03-25 14:37 +0000
        Re: Moving portables while running. George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2012-03-25 10:02 -0500
          Re: Moving portables while running. Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2012-03-25 10:20 -0700
        Re: Moving portables while running. Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> - 2012-03-25 18:33 +0200
        Re: Moving portables while running. Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2012-03-25 13:36 -0400
          Re: Moving portables while running. Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> - 2012-03-25 20:01 +0200
        Re: Moving portables while running. Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2012-03-25 14:06 -0700
          Re: Moving portables while running. Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> - 2012-03-26 10:48 +0200
    Re: Moving portables while running. Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2012-03-25 00:44 -0400
      Re: Moving portables while running. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2012-03-25 00:51 -0400
        Re: Moving portables while running. Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2012-03-24 22:22 -0700
          Re: Moving portables while running. HelpfulHarry@BusyWorking.com (Helpful Harry) - 2012-03-25 19:09 +1200
            Re: Moving portables while running. Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2012-03-24 23:34 -0700
        Re: Moving portables while running. Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2012-03-25 13:28 -0400
          Re: Moving portables while running. Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> - 2012-03-25 19:56 +0200

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#22831 — Moving portables while running.

I notice an old page:

<http://support.apple.com/kb/TA25026?viewlocale=en_US>

When I was travelling I would sometimes move the Macbook a bit on my 
lap or from table to couch or bed while the hard disk still running, 
nothing to do with sleep.

Often wondered if it would do any harm to watch a movie on a Macbook 
when it is tipped sideways so you can lie on your side, like on a 
couch or floor, or in bed. Too wary to try it! With external HDs, they 
don't seem to warn about how to lay them, intuitively, I would have 
thought there would be a favoured orientation, like a turntable with a 
record on it!

-- 
dorayme

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#22834

In article <dorayme-99B37F.14263825032012@news.albasani.net>, dorayme
<dorayme@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

> I notice an old page:
> 
> <http://support.apple.com/kb/TA25026?viewlocale=en_US>
> 
> When I was travelling I would sometimes move the Macbook a bit on my 
> lap or from table to couch or bed while the hard disk still running, 
> nothing to do with sleep.
> 
> Often wondered if it would do any harm to watch a movie on a Macbook 
> when it is tipped sideways so you can lie on your side, like on a 
> couch or floor, or in bed. Too wary to try it! With external HDs, they 
> don't seem to warn about how to lay them, intuitively, I would have 
> thought there would be a favoured orientation, like a turntable with a 
> record on it!

A vinyl record on a turntable replies on gravity to keep the needle in
physical contact with the record.

There's no preferred orientation for a hard drive since they don't need
gravity to keep the heads in near-contact with the drive platters.
Similarly with CD / DVD drives and other removeable media (floppy disks,
Zip disks, etc.) - some Windows PCs had the floppy drives mounted
vertically. (The obvious exception is CD / DVD drives that use a tray, but
I have seen those sometimes mounted vertically too, even though it makes
inserting discs a bit difficult.)

With the exception of CD/DVD drives, storage media these days is all
double-sided and both sides are accessed at the same time (unlike a vinyl
record), so even when mounted horizontally one of the heads is
"upside-down".

The Mac Pro usually has it's drives mounted horizontally and the iMac has
drives mounted vertically. For laptops, the Bookendz Dock is horitonal and
the Henge Dock is vertical.

The only real problem is when the drive is dropped and the heads actually
hit the platters / disk. These days hard drives automatically park the
heads to one side when the drive powers off or when sensors detect a sharp
drop.

Helpful Harry  :o)

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#22847

In article 
<HelpfulHarry-2503121718070001@203-118-187-91.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>,
 HelpfulHarry@BusyWorking.com (Helpful Harry) wrote:

> In article <dorayme-99B37F.14263825032012@news.albasani.net>, dorayme
> <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> 
> > I notice an old page:
> > 
> > <http://support.apple.com/kb/TA25026?viewlocale=en_US>
> > 
> > When I was travelling I would sometimes move the Macbook a bit on my 
> > lap or from table to couch or bed while the hard disk still running, 
> > nothing to do with sleep.
> > 
> > Often wondered if it would do any harm to watch a movie on a Macbook 
> > when it is tipped sideways so you can lie on your side, like on a 
> > couch or floor, or in bed. Too wary to try it! With external HDs, they 
> > don't seem to warn about how to lay them, intuitively, I would have 
> > thought there would be a favoured orientation, like a turntable with a 
> > record on it!
> 
> A vinyl record on a turntable replies on gravity to keep the needle in
> physical contact with the record.
> 
> There's no preferred orientation for a hard drive since they don't need
> gravity to keep the heads in near-contact with the drive platters.

Sure, but its not just the heads I worry about. A neurotic worries 
about *everything*. Last turntable I had, apart from arm and needle, 
the table would fall off the spindle if you tipped it upside down. And 
if you could fix the table to the spindle it would drag the motor 
shaft down and maybe it was not designed for upside down rotation. 

Maybe for modern laptops, it is OK to tilt or run upside down, I don't 
know enough about the physical pressures involved. 

Perhaps it is a bit like the bikes I used to ride in younger days, I 
had a knack with them and even once performed in a travelling show 
riding cylinder walls, the bikes seemed fine in the short term. 

The drum brakes worked ok for the extremely rare occasions I used them 
- not a good idea to use brakes much when trying to keep sideways on a 
wall! - but what is the longer term outlook for drum brakes kept 
perpendicular to the vertical? 

In the case of bike engines, if you were really to ride for hours on 
end on walls, a gyro controlled sump might be a useful addition, or a 
redesign so that the oil pump scoop can scoop from the engine sides, a 
sort of wrap around sump. 

Harry, if you want to be helpful, send me a little dough so I can rig 
us a couple such bikes. You and I could ride for hours on walls. It 
would be fun, dorayme and Helpful Harry going up walls. How can you 
resist? 

...

> 
> The Mac Pro usually has it's drives mounted horizontally and the iMac has
> drives mounted vertically. For laptops, the Bookendz Dock is horitonal and
> the Henge Dock is vertical.
>

-- 
dorayme

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#22880

On 03-25-2012 06:59, dorayme wrote:
> In the case of bike engines, if you were really to ride for hours on
> end on walls, a gyro controlled sump might be a useful addition, or a
> redesign so that the oil pump scoop can scoop from the engine sides, a
> sort of wrap around sump.

In case there's anyone out there that can't see the tingue-bulge in her 
cheek, the same force that holds the vehicle against the wall also holds 
the oil toward the wall.

-- 
Wes Groleau

    ¡Qué quiero realmente hacer es comer un perrito caliente!
       私が実際にしたいと思う何をホットドッグを食べることである!
    http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/WWW?itemid=463

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#22904

In article <jknkrg$7rg$1@dont-email.me>,
 Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> wrote:

> On 03-25-2012 06:59, dorayme wrote:
> > In the case of bike engines, if you were really to ride for hours on
> > end on walls, a gyro controlled sump might be a useful addition, or a
> > redesign so that the oil pump scoop can scoop from the engine sides, a
> > sort of wrap around sump.
> 
> In case there's anyone out there that can't see the tongue-bulge in her 
> cheek, the same force that holds the vehicle against the wall also holds 
> the oil toward the wall.

Ssshhhh! I was trying to get some money out of Helpful Harry for 
engine developments. You have now ruined the sting operation!

-- 
dorayme

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#22905

On 03-25-2012 18:38, dorayme wrote:
> Ssshhhh! I was trying to get some money out of Helpful Harry for
> engine developments. You have now ruined the sting operation!

I've never liked stinging in the rain.

-- 
Wes Groleau

Heroes, Heritage, and History
http://UniGen.us/webtrees

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#22860

Helpful Harry <HelpfulHarry@busyworking.com> wrote:

> A vinyl record on a turntable replies on gravity to keep the needle in
> physical contact with the record.

But that doesn't mean all turntables did.

Mitsubishi made one called the LT-5V that played records vertical.

Same with hard drives, early on most needed to be used horizontal only,
later on, it didn't matter.

-bruce
bje@ripco.com

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#22864

On 3/25/12 9:37 AM, in article jknajp$c6a$1@remote5bge0.ripco.com, "Bruce
Esquibel" <bje@ripco.com> wrote:

> Helpful Harry <HelpfulHarry@busyworking.com> wrote:
> 
>> A vinyl record on a turntable replies on gravity to keep the needle in
>> physical contact with the record.
> 
> But that doesn't mean all turntables did.
> 
> Mitsubishi made one called the LT-5V that played records vertical.
> 
> Same with hard drives, early on most needed to be used horizontal only,
> later on, it didn't matter.
> 
> -bruce
> bje@ripco.com

As I recall, I am pretty sure I have seen video of astronauts using laptops
in the International Space Station.

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#22877

On 3/25/2012 8:02 AM PT, George Kerby typed:

> As I recall, I am pretty sure I have seen video of astronauts using laptops
> in the International Space Station.

But those were designed and tested to be approved to use in space's zero 
gravity. :)
-- 
"Be thine enemy an ant, see in him an elephant." --Turkish Proverb
    /\___/\         Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
   / /\ /\ \                Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
  | |o   o| |
     \ _ /        If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
      ( )         If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

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#22873

On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 14:37:45 +0000, Bruce Esquibel wrote:

> Helpful Harry <HelpfulHarry@busyworking.com> wrote:
> 
>> A vinyl record on a turntable replies on gravity to keep the needle in
>> physical contact with the record.
> 
> But that doesn't mean all turntables did.
> 
> Mitsubishi made one called the LT-5V that played records vertical.

Yes, I had a Technics turntable which claimed it could do that, though I 
never tried it.  It also had a 12V power socket so you could use it in a 
car (and unsurprisingly warned you not to use it while driving).
 
> Same with hard drives, early on most needed to be used horizontal only,
> later on, it didn't matter.
> 

I've got a mix of horizontally and vertically mounted drives in the 
various computers I have here.  I try to run the portable one in a 
horizontal position if the cable reaches, but that's not always possible.


-- 
Paul Sture

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#22881

On 03-25-2012 10:37, Bruce Esquibel wrote:
> Helpful Harry<HelpfulHarry@busyworking.com>  wrote:
>> A vinyl record on a turntable replies on gravity to keep the needle in
>> physical contact with the record.
>
> But that doesn't mean all turntables did.
> Mitsubishi made one called the LT-5V that played records vertical.

Many old jukeboxes stored the records vertically and did not turn them 
before playing.  A spring tuned to provided the same pressure that
gravity would provided the other way is trivial to build.

-- 
Wes Groleau

   “But, Professor! I didn't plagiarize! I paid someone to
    write the essay for me, and that person plagiarized!"
               — from http://rateyourstudents.blogspot.com

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#22891

On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 13:36:00 -0400, Wes Groleau wrote:

> On 03-25-2012 10:37, Bruce Esquibel wrote:
>> Helpful Harry<HelpfulHarry@busyworking.com>  wrote:
>>> A vinyl record on a turntable replies on gravity to keep the needle in
>>> physical contact with the record.
>>
>> But that doesn't mean all turntables did. Mitsubishi made one called
>> the LT-5V that played records vertical.
> 
> Many old jukeboxes stored the records vertically and did not turn them
> before playing.  A spring tuned to provided the same pressure that
> gravity would provided the other way is trivial to build.

At one time I had a computer with a vertically mounted CD drive.  I was 
always nervous about the CDs dropping out and getting scrunched as the 
tray slid in.  No damaged CDs fortunately, but it wasn't a very robust 
arrangement.


-- 
Paul Sture

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#22897

In article <jknajp$c6a$1@remote5bge0.ripco.com>,
 Bruce Esquibel <bje@ripco.com> wrote:

> Helpful Harry <HelpfulHarry@busyworking.com> wrote:
> 
> > A vinyl record on a turntable replies on gravity to keep the needle in
> > physical contact with the record.
> 
> But that doesn't mean all turntables did.
> 
> Mitsubishi made one called the LT-5V that played records vertical.

I never knew the brand name, but a buddy of mine had a turntable (a 
commercial unit, not home-brewed) that would play *BOTH SIDES* of an 
album without intervention - The "tone arm" was a straight bar that rode 
in a straight groove at the back of the unit. Put the album on, place 
the tone-arm on the top of the record, and listen. When it hit the end 
of the side, the tone arm would lift, come back across the top surface, 
vanish below the album, and then the album would stop spinning,  reverse 
its rotation, and the "bottom" side of the album would start to play. 

Utterly bizarre to watch it in operation!

-- 
Email shown is deceased. If you would like to contact me by email, please
post something that makes it obvious in this or another group you see me
posting in with a "how to contact you" address, and I'll get back to you. 

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#22921

On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 14:06:10 -0700, Don Bruder wrote:

> In article <jknajp$c6a$1@remote5bge0.ripco.com>,
>  Bruce Esquibel <bje@ripco.com> wrote:
> 
>> Helpful Harry <HelpfulHarry@busyworking.com> wrote:
>> 
>> > A vinyl record on a turntable replies on gravity to keep the needle
>> > in physical contact with the record.
>> 
>> But that doesn't mean all turntables did.
>> 
>> Mitsubishi made one called the LT-5V that played records vertical.
> 
> I never knew the brand name, but a buddy of mine had a turntable (a
> commercial unit, not home-brewed) that would play *BOTH SIDES* of an
> album without intervention - The "tone arm" was a straight bar that rode
> in a straight groove at the back of the unit. Put the album on, place
> the tone-arm on the top of the record, and listen. When it hit the end
> of the side, the tone arm would lift, come back across the top surface,
> vanish below the album, and then the album would stop spinning,  reverse
> its rotation, and the "bottom" side of the album would start to play.
> 
> Utterly bizarre to watch it in operation!

Back in the days when the BBC used vinyl for the classical radio channel 
they would have duplicate copies of works split across 2 turntables so 
that they could have the next side in sequence ready to go when the 
previous side finished.

-- 
Paul Sture

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#22836

On 03-24-2012 23:26, dorayme wrote:
> couch or floor, or in bed. Too wary to try it! With external HDs, they
> don't seem to warn about how to lay them, intuitively, I would have
> thought there would be a favoured orientation, like a turntable with a
> record on it!

A long time ago, drives were less precise, and if you formatted a 
platter horizontal, it was best to always use it horizontal.

But that was back when drives were measured in megabytes.

-- 
Wes Groleau

Always listen to experts.  They'll tell you
what can't be done and why.  Then do it.
                     — Robert A. Heinlein

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#22837

In article <jkm7rq$gbj$2@dont-email.me>, Wes Groleau
<Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> wrote:

> A long time ago, drives were less precise, and if you formatted a 
> platter horizontal, it was best to always use it horizontal.
> 
> But that was back when drives were measured in megabytes.

the problem were the drive bearings, not the formatting.

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#22840

In article <250320120051496941%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
 nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> > A long time ago, drives were less precise, and if you formatted a 
> > platter horizontal, it was best to always use it horizontal.
> > 
> > But that was back when drives were measured in megabytes.
> 
> the problem were the drive bearings, not the formatting.

Back in the days of the iMac 4G, the drive needed to be horizontal, which 
is what led to the "Pixar" shape of the computer.  Well, that's how Jobs 
explained how that design came to be.

-- 
Tea Party Patriots is to Patriotism as 
People's Democratic Republic is to Democracy.

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#22843

In article <michelle-416B0D.22223524032012@news.eternal-september.org>,
Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> In article <250320120051496941%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
>  nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> > > 
> > > A long time ago, drives were less precise, and if you formatted a 
> > > platter horizontal, it was best to always use it horizontal.
> > > 
> > > But that was back when drives were measured in megabytes.
> > 
> > the problem were the drive bearings, not the formatting.
> 
> Back in the days of the iMac 4G, the drive needed to be horizontal, which 
> is what led to the "Pixar" shape of the computer.  Well, that's how Jobs 
> explained how that design came to be.

More likely he meant the tray-based CD drive in the G4 iMac than the hard drive.

Helpful Harry  :o)

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#22845

In article 
<HelpfulHarry-2503121909400001@203-118-187-251.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>,
 HelpfulHarry@BusyWorking.com (Helpful Harry) wrote:

> > Back in the days of the iMac 4G, the drive needed to be horizontal, 
> > which is what led to the "Pixar" shape of the computer.  Well, that's 
> > how Jobs explained how that design came to be.
> 
> More likely he meant the tray-based CD drive in the G4 iMac than the 
> hard drive.

No, he meant the hard drive.  The shape of the base led to the tray base 
for the CD drive.

-- 
Tea Party Patriots is to Patriotism as 
People's Democratic Republic is to Democracy.

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#22879

On 03-25-2012 00:51, nospam wrote:
> In article<jkm7rq$gbj$2@dont-email.me>, Wes Groleau
> <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org>  wrote:
>
>> A long time ago, drives were less precise, and if you formatted a
>> platter horizontal, it was best to always use it horizontal.
>>
>> But that was back when drives were measured in megabytes.
>
> the problem were the drive bearings, not the formatting.

I did not say the formatting itself was the cause.  It was not only the 
platter bearings but all lot of other parts.  Anything that affects the 
positioning of the heads relative to the recorded bits has a different 
gravitational pull on it horizontally than vertically.  Back in those 
days, the positioning of many of those parts was not as precisely 
controlled.

-- 
Wes Groleau

    Nobody believes a theoretical analysis — except the guy who did it.
    Everybody believes an experimental analysis — except the guy who did it.
                                  — Unknown

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