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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #121420 > unrolled thread

How to Securely Delete a Data File

Started byWade Garrett <wade@cooler.net>
First post2019-01-30 19:21 -0500
Last post2019-02-07 10:31 -0500
Articles 20 on this page of 91 — 10 participants

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Contents

  How to Securely Delete a Data File Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2019-01-30 19:21 -0500
    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-30 19:38 -0500
    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-01-31 04:37 +0000
      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-01-31 09:12 -0500
        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-01-31 15:41 +0000
          Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-31 22:55 +0000
            Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-01 08:42 -0500
      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-01-31 12:48 -0500
        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-31 13:29 -0500
          Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Elden <usenet@moondog.org> - 2019-01-31 14:24 -0600
          Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-02-01 05:24 +0000
        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-01-31 13:41 -0500
          Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-01-31 13:50 -0500
            Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-01-31 14:30 -0500
            Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-02-01 05:26 +0000
              Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-01 08:47 -0500
                Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-01 10:57 -0500
                Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-02-01 16:18 +0000
                  Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-01 15:26 -0500
                    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-02-01 21:03 +0000
                      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-01 16:12 -0500
                        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-01 21:57 +0000
                        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-02-02 11:23 +0000
                          Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-02 10:24 -0500
                            Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-02-03 05:12 +0000
                              Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-03 19:14 -0500
                    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-01 21:56 +0000
                      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-01 18:34 -0500
                    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-01 19:49 -0500
                Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-01 17:05 +0000
                  Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-01 15:29 -0500
                    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-01 22:02 +0000
                      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-01 18:37 -0500
    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-01-31 09:14 -0500
    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Percival John Hackworth <pjh@nanoworks.com> - 2019-01-31 07:59 -0800
      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-01-31 11:04 -0500
      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-02-01 05:28 +0000
    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-01-31 12:49 -0500
    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-01 03:21 +0000
      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> - 2019-02-01 04:49 -0500
        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-01 10:57 -0500
          Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-01 17:02 +0000
        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-02-01 16:16 +0000
        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-01 17:02 +0000
        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2019-02-01 12:56 -0500
          Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-01 13:05 -0500
            Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2019-02-01 13:34 -0500
              Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-01 13:48 -0500
                Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2019-02-03 12:01 -0500
          Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-01 18:51 +0000
    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2019-02-01 15:27 -0500
      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.invalid> - 2019-02-01 20:52 +0000
        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2019-02-02 08:09 -0500
      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-02-01 21:05 +0000
        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-01 22:01 +0000
        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2019-02-02 08:14 -0500
          Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-02 16:40 +0000
            Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2019-02-02 18:36 -0500
              Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-03 01:23 +0000
                Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2019-02-03 08:54 -0500
                  Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-03 19:23 +0000
                    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> - 2019-02-03 14:49 -0500
                      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-03 22:23 +0000
                    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2019-02-03 17:16 -0500
                      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-03 22:51 +0000
                        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2019-02-04 08:38 -0500
                        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2019-02-04 12:12 -0500
                          Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-04 18:00 +0000
                            Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2019-02-04 13:10 -0500
          Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-02 11:43 -0500
          Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-02-03 05:13 +0000
            Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-03 19:15 -0500
              Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-02-04 00:41 +0000
                Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-04 11:25 -0500
                  Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-04 13:15 -0500
                    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-04 15:28 -0500
                      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-04 16:17 -0500
                        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-04 16:40 -0500
                          Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-04 18:07 -0500
                            Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-06 19:53 -0500
                              Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-06 20:01 -0500
                                Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-07 14:00 -0500
                                  Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-07 14:08 -0500
                                    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-07 14:09 -0500
                                    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-07 14:10 -0500
                                      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-02-08 02:41 +0000
                                  Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-02-08 02:39 +0000
              Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-03 19:44 -0500
      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-01 22:00 +0000
        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-01 22:02 +0000
    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File- RESOLVED Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2019-02-07 10:31 -0500

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#121589

FromAlan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
Date2019-02-01 16:12 -0500
Message-ID<g7edncVgo6CtK8nBnZ2dnUU7-d3NnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#121586
On 2019-02-01 16:03, Lewis wrote:
> In message <jZKdnZdueI8XNsnBnZ2dnUU7-WudnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2019-02-01 11:18, Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <Y8mdneCiYI9y0MnBnZ2dnUU7-f2dnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2019-02-01 00:26, Lewis wrote:
>>>>> In message <JuOdnQmbE_4S3s7BnZ2dnUU7-VOdnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2019-01-31 13:41, nospam wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <CamdnfMFPfhEqc7BnZ2dnUU7-X-dnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
>>>>>>> <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I inadvertently created a copy of confidential Pages document that
>>>>>>>>>> resides on an encrypted sparsebundle on my spinning Macintosh HD (Mojave
>>>>>>>>>> 10.14.3).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> How can I securely delete the copy?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If your disk has FileVault enabled, as it should, you simply delete the
>>>>>>>>> file.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can still be recovered because there is a single key for the whole
>>>>>>>> drive.  (Unlike iOS with keys for each file).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> an attacker won't know what that is.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Depends on the attacker and what access he has to the physical
>>>>>> environment.  If the police have a search warrant and find the password
>>>>>> (written down for example) or recovery key then they'll get in.
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, you're goalpost shifting now. You're done.
>>>
>>>> Not at all.  While my sys password is in my head, my system HD recovery
>>>> key is written down and only superficially disguised.
>>>
>>> Then you're stupid.
>>>
>>>> A determined investigator/hacker has a good chance of connecting the
>>>> dots.
>>>
>>> Writing down a password is simply stupid. Period. There is no rational
>>> justification for it.
> 
>> Who said I wrote down a password?  It's a recovery key.  Not memorable
>> stuff...
> 
> A recovery key is a password.

Not in the sense of daily use to login or access docs.  It's there to 
_recover_ in case you've lost / forgotten the password.

So, again, nothing I'd remember (for long) and not "connected" to its 
purpose.  Would take a pretty determined person to figure out what 
machine it was for, and what purpose on the machine for which it is 
intended.

Not to mention not even in the same room of the house...


-- 
"2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants.  Proof that we
  need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
                                           - unknown protester

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#121591

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2019-02-01 21:57 +0000
Message-ID<gbjtn6F7k4U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#121589
On 2019-02-01, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2019-02-01 16:03, Lewis wrote:
>> 
>> A recovery key is a password.
>
> Not in the sense of daily use to login or access docs.

You can't be this stupid. The key can be used to access all of the
documents on the entire hard drive.

> Not to mention not even in the same room of the house...

LOL!...

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#121613

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2019-02-02 11:23 +0000
Message-ID<slrnq5avd7.4dn.g.kreme@Snow.local>
In reply to#121589
In message <g7edncVgo6CtK8nBnZ2dnUU7-d3NnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2019-02-01 16:03, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <jZKdnZdueI8XNsnBnZ2dnUU7-WudnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>> On 2019-02-01 11:18, Lewis wrote:
>>>> In message <Y8mdneCiYI9y0MnBnZ2dnUU7-f2dnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2019-02-01 00:26, Lewis wrote:
>>>>>> In message <JuOdnQmbE_4S3s7BnZ2dnUU7-VOdnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2019-01-31 13:41, nospam wrote:
>>>>>>>> In article <CamdnfMFPfhEqc7BnZ2dnUU7-X-dnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
>>>>>>>> <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I inadvertently created a copy of confidential Pages document that
>>>>>>>>>>> resides on an encrypted sparsebundle on my spinning Macintosh HD (Mojave
>>>>>>>>>>> 10.14.3).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> How can I securely delete the copy?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If your disk has FileVault enabled, as it should, you simply delete the
>>>>>>>>>> file.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Can still be recovered because there is a single key for the whole
>>>>>>>>> drive.  (Unlike iOS with keys for each file).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> an attacker won't know what that is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Depends on the attacker and what access he has to the physical
>>>>>>> environment.  If the police have a search warrant and find the password
>>>>>>> (written down for example) or recovery key then they'll get in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK, you're goalpost shifting now. You're done.
>>>>
>>>>> Not at all.  While my sys password is in my head, my system HD recovery
>>>>> key is written down and only superficially disguised.
>>>>
>>>> Then you're stupid.
>>>>
>>>>> A determined investigator/hacker has a good chance of connecting the
>>>>> dots.
>>>>
>>>> Writing down a password is simply stupid. Period. There is no rational
>>>> justification for it.
>> 
>>> Who said I wrote down a password?  It's a recovery key.  Not memorable
>>> stuff...
>> 
>> A recovery key is a password.

> Not in the sense of daily use to login or access docs.  It's there to 
> _recover_ in case you've lost / forgotten the password.

It doesn't matter how often you use it, it's a password. I have
passwords I use less than yearly.

> So, again, nothing I'd remember (for long) and not "connected" to its 
> purpose.  Would take a pretty determined person to figure out what 
> machine it was for, and what purpose on the machine for which it is 
> intended.

The point is not that you are supposed to REMEMBER the password, the
point is that you MANAGE the password where you, and only you, have
access to it.

-- 
I wrote this song two hours before we met. I didn't know your name, or
what you looked like yet....

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#121621

FromAlan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
Date2019-02-02 10:24 -0500
Message-ID<8oudnUaYC_e6K8jBnZ2dnUU7-WmdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#121613
On 2019-02-02 06:23, Lewis wrote:
> In message <g7edncVgo6CtK8nBnZ2dnUU7-d3NnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2019-02-01 16:03, Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <jZKdnZdueI8XNsnBnZ2dnUU7-WudnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2019-02-01 11:18, Lewis wrote:
>>>>> In message <Y8mdneCiYI9y0MnBnZ2dnUU7-f2dnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2019-02-01 00:26, Lewis wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <JuOdnQmbE_4S3s7BnZ2dnUU7-VOdnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2019-01-31 13:41, nospam wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In article <CamdnfMFPfhEqc7BnZ2dnUU7-X-dnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
>>>>>>>>> <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I inadvertently created a copy of confidential Pages document that
>>>>>>>>>>>> resides on an encrypted sparsebundle on my spinning Macintosh HD (Mojave
>>>>>>>>>>>> 10.14.3).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> How can I securely delete the copy?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If your disk has FileVault enabled, as it should, you simply delete the
>>>>>>>>>>> file.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Can still be recovered because there is a single key for the whole
>>>>>>>>>> drive.  (Unlike iOS with keys for each file).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> an attacker won't know what that is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Depends on the attacker and what access he has to the physical
>>>>>>>> environment.  If the police have a search warrant and find the password
>>>>>>>> (written down for example) or recovery key then they'll get in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OK, you're goalpost shifting now. You're done.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Not at all.  While my sys password is in my head, my system HD recovery
>>>>>> key is written down and only superficially disguised.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then you're stupid.
>>>>>
>>>>>> A determined investigator/hacker has a good chance of connecting the
>>>>>> dots.
>>>>>
>>>>> Writing down a password is simply stupid. Period. There is no rational
>>>>> justification for it.
>>>
>>>> Who said I wrote down a password?  It's a recovery key.  Not memorable
>>>> stuff...
>>>
>>> A recovery key is a password.
> 
>> Not in the sense of daily use to login or access docs.  It's there to
>> _recover_ in case you've lost / forgotten the password.
> 
> It doesn't matter how often you use it, it's a password. I have
> passwords I use less than yearly.
> 
>> So, again, nothing I'd remember (for long) and not "connected" to its
>> purpose.  Would take a pretty determined person to figure out what
>> machine it was for, and what purpose on the machine for which it is
>> intended.
> 
> The point is not that you are supposed to REMEMBER the password, the
> point is that you MANAGE the password where you, and only you, have
> access to it.

You're getting boring.  The level of security for the recovery key is 
more than adequate for the computer I am talking about.

Other computers I manage have the keys stored in safer locations that 
only I or business partners can access.

-- 
"2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants.  Proof that we
  need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
                                           - unknown protester

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#121686

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2019-02-03 05:12 +0000
Message-ID<slrnq5cu1c.kjf.g.kreme@Snow.local>
In reply to#121621
In message <8oudnUaYC_e6K8jBnZ2dnUU7-WmdnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2019-02-02 06:23, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <g7edncVgo6CtK8nBnZ2dnUU7-d3NnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>> On 2019-02-01 16:03, Lewis wrote:
>>>> In message <jZKdnZdueI8XNsnBnZ2dnUU7-WudnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2019-02-01 11:18, Lewis wrote:
>>>>>> In message <Y8mdneCiYI9y0MnBnZ2dnUU7-f2dnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2019-02-01 00:26, Lewis wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <JuOdnQmbE_4S3s7BnZ2dnUU7-VOdnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2019-01-31 13:41, nospam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In article <CamdnfMFPfhEqc7BnZ2dnUU7-X-dnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
>>>>>>>>>> <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I inadvertently created a copy of confidential Pages document that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> resides on an encrypted sparsebundle on my spinning Macintosh HD (Mojave
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 10.14.3).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can I securely delete the copy?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If your disk has FileVault enabled, as it should, you simply delete the
>>>>>>>>>>>> file.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Can still be recovered because there is a single key for the whole
>>>>>>>>>>> drive.  (Unlike iOS with keys for each file).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> an attacker won't know what that is.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Depends on the attacker and what access he has to the physical
>>>>>>>>> environment.  If the police have a search warrant and find the password
>>>>>>>>> (written down for example) or recovery key then they'll get in.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OK, you're goalpost shifting now. You're done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not at all.  While my sys password is in my head, my system HD recovery
>>>>>>> key is written down and only superficially disguised.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then you're stupid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A determined investigator/hacker has a good chance of connecting the
>>>>>>> dots.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Writing down a password is simply stupid. Period. There is no rational
>>>>>> justification for it.
>>>>
>>>>> Who said I wrote down a password?  It's a recovery key.  Not memorable
>>>>> stuff...
>>>>
>>>> A recovery key is a password.
>> 
>>> Not in the sense of daily use to login or access docs.  It's there to
>>> _recover_ in case you've lost / forgotten the password.
>> 
>> It doesn't matter how often you use it, it's a password. I have
>> passwords I use less than yearly.
>> 
>>> So, again, nothing I'd remember (for long) and not "connected" to its
>>> purpose.  Would take a pretty determined person to figure out what
>>> machine it was for, and what purpose on the machine for which it is
>>> intended.
>> 
>> The point is not that you are supposed to REMEMBER the password, the
>> point is that you MANAGE the password where you, and only you, have
>> access to it.

> You're getting boring.  The level of security for the recovery key is 
> more than adequate for the computer I am talking about.

But you used your piss-poor security as a reason that deleting a file
off an encrypted drive was not sufficient to protect it; obviously you
do not believe that your method is actually secure.

-- 
The days of our innocence and grace flow by
The smiles we wear upon our face blow by

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#121766

FromAlan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
Date2019-02-03 19:14 -0500
Message-ID<JcWdnW8RAfieGcrBnZ2dnUU7-emdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#121686
On 2019-02-03 00:12, Lewis wrote:
> In message <8oudnUaYC_e6K8jBnZ2dnUU7-WmdnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2019-02-02 06:23, Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <g7edncVgo6CtK8nBnZ2dnUU7-d3NnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2019-02-01 16:03, Lewis wrote:
>>>>> In message <jZKdnZdueI8XNsnBnZ2dnUU7-WudnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2019-02-01 11:18, Lewis wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <Y8mdneCiYI9y0MnBnZ2dnUU7-f2dnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2019-02-01 00:26, Lewis wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <JuOdnQmbE_4S3s7BnZ2dnUU7-VOdnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2019-01-31 13:41, nospam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In article <CamdnfMFPfhEqc7BnZ2dnUU7-X-dnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
>>>>>>>>>>> <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I inadvertently created a copy of confidential Pages document that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resides on an encrypted sparsebundle on my spinning Macintosh HD (Mojave
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 10.14.3).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can I securely delete the copy?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If your disk has FileVault enabled, as it should, you simply delete the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> file.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Can still be recovered because there is a single key for the whole
>>>>>>>>>>>> drive.  (Unlike iOS with keys for each file).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> an attacker won't know what that is.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Depends on the attacker and what access he has to the physical
>>>>>>>>>> environment.  If the police have a search warrant and find the password
>>>>>>>>>> (written down for example) or recovery key then they'll get in.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> OK, you're goalpost shifting now. You're done.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not at all.  While my sys password is in my head, my system HD recovery
>>>>>>>> key is written down and only superficially disguised.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then you're stupid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A determined investigator/hacker has a good chance of connecting the
>>>>>>>> dots.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Writing down a password is simply stupid. Period. There is no rational
>>>>>>> justification for it.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Who said I wrote down a password?  It's a recovery key.  Not memorable
>>>>>> stuff...
>>>>>
>>>>> A recovery key is a password.
>>>
>>>> Not in the sense of daily use to login or access docs.  It's there to
>>>> _recover_ in case you've lost / forgotten the password.
>>>
>>> It doesn't matter how often you use it, it's a password. I have
>>> passwords I use less than yearly.
>>>
>>>> So, again, nothing I'd remember (for long) and not "connected" to its
>>>> purpose.  Would take a pretty determined person to figure out what
>>>> machine it was for, and what purpose on the machine for which it is
>>>> intended.
>>>
>>> The point is not that you are supposed to REMEMBER the password, the
>>> point is that you MANAGE the password where you, and only you, have
>>> access to it.
> 
>> You're getting boring.  The level of security for the recovery key is
>> more than adequate for the computer I am talking about.
> 
> But you used your piss-poor security as a reason that deleting a file

It's not piss-poor at all.  And it's more than adequate for this 
computer.  My work computers, well, that's something else.

> off an encrypted drive was not sufficient to protect it; obviously you
> do not believe that your method is actually secure.

I was answering to the OP's paranoia.  If he's mildly paranoid and using 
Filevault then he's fine; if he's very paranoid then he can take the 
additional steps of writing files to the disk.  Or sending them on a 
rocket towards the sun.


-- 
"2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants.  Proof that we
  need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
                                           - unknown protester

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#121590

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2019-02-01 21:56 +0000
Message-ID<gbjtk5F7k4U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#121582
On 2019-02-01, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2019-02-01 11:18, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <Y8mdneCiYI9y0MnBnZ2dnUU7-f2dnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Not at all.  While my sys password is in my head, my system HD
>>> recovery key is written down and only superficially disguised.
>> 
>> Then you're stupid.
>> 
>>> A determined investigator/hacker has a good chance of connecting the
>>> dots.
>> 
>> Writing down a password is simply stupid. Period. There is no
>> rational justification for it.
>
> Who said I wrote down a password?  It's a recovery key.  

You've written down the only key needed to decrypt *all* of your files
on your hard drive. How stupid can you be?

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#121596

FromAlan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
Date2019-02-01 18:34 -0500
Message-ID<h-idnQn4S-YcSsnBnZ2dnUU7-Q-dnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#121590
On 2019-02-01 16:56, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2019-02-01, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2019-02-01 11:18, Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <Y8mdneCiYI9y0MnBnZ2dnUU7-f2dnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not at all.  While my sys password is in my head, my system HD
>>>> recovery key is written down and only superficially disguised.
>>>
>>> Then you're stupid.
>>>
>>>> A determined investigator/hacker has a good chance of connecting the
>>>> dots.
>>>
>>> Writing down a password is simply stupid. Period. There is no
>>> rational justification for it.
>>
>> Who said I wrote down a password?  It's a recovery key.
> 
> You've written down the only key needed to decrypt *all* of your files
> on your hard drive. How stupid can you be?

See my reply to Lewis.



-- 
"2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants.  Proof that we
  need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
                                           - unknown protester

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#121605

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2019-02-01 19:49 -0500
Message-ID<010220191949314065%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#121582
In article <jZKdnZdueI8XNsnBnZ2dnUU7-WudnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
<bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

> >>>> Depends on the attacker and what access he has to the physical
> >>>> environment.  If the police have a search warrant and find the password
> >>>> (written down for example) or recovery key then they'll get in.
> >>>
> >>> OK, you're goalpost shifting now. You're done.
> > 
> >> Not at all.  While my sys password is in my head, my system HD recovery
> >> key is written down and only superficially disguised.
> > 
> > Then you're stupid.
> > 
> >> A determined investigator/hacker has a good chance of connecting the
> >> dots.
> > 
> > Writing down a password is simply stupid. Period. There is no rational
> > justification for it.
> 
> Who said I wrote down a password?  It's a recovery key.  Not memorable 
> stuff...

you did, and it doesn't matter what it's called. 

> >> ...my system HD recovery
> >> key is written down and only superficially disguised.

anything written down is foolish, especially when it's superficially
disguised. even better, don't use a recovery key at all.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#121555

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2019-02-01 17:05 +0000
Message-ID<gbjcj3Fr47vU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#121543
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2019-02-01 00:26, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <JuOdnQmbE_4S3s7BnZ2dnUU7-VOdnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne
>> <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>> On 2019-01-31 13:41, nospam wrote:
>>>> In article <CamdnfMFPfhEqc7BnZ2dnUU7-X-dnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
>>>> <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>>> I inadvertently created a copy of confidential Pages document that
>>>>>>> resides on an encrypted sparsebundle on my spinning Macintosh HD (Mojave
>>>>>>> 10.14.3).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> How can I securely delete the copy?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If your disk has FileVault enabled, as it should, you simply delete the
>>>>>> file.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Can still be recovered because there is a single key for the whole
>>>>> drive.  (Unlike iOS with keys for each file).
>>>> 
>>>> an attacker won't know what that is.
>> 
>>> Depends on the attacker and what access he has to the physical
>>> environment.  If the police have a search warrant and find the password
>>> (written down for example) or recovery key then they'll get in.
>> 
>> OK, you're goalpost shifting now. You're done.
> 
> Not at all.  While my sys password is in my head, my system HD recovery 
> key is written down and only superficially disguised.  A determined 
> investigator/hacker has a good chance of connecting the dots.

You’re an idiot.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#121584

FromAlan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
Date2019-02-01 15:29 -0500
Message-ID<jZKdnZZueI-uMcnBnZ2dnUU7-WudnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#121555
On 2019-02-01 12:05, Jolly Roger wrote:
> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2019-02-01 00:26, Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <JuOdnQmbE_4S3s7BnZ2dnUU7-VOdnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne
>>> <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2019-01-31 13:41, nospam wrote:
>>>>> In article <CamdnfMFPfhEqc7BnZ2dnUU7-X-dnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
>>>>> <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I inadvertently created a copy of confidential Pages document that
>>>>>>>> resides on an encrypted sparsebundle on my spinning Macintosh HD (Mojave
>>>>>>>> 10.14.3).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How can I securely delete the copy?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If your disk has FileVault enabled, as it should, you simply delete the
>>>>>>> file.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can still be recovered because there is a single key for the whole
>>>>>> drive.  (Unlike iOS with keys for each file).
>>>>>
>>>>> an attacker won't know what that is.
>>>
>>>> Depends on the attacker and what access he has to the physical
>>>> environment.  If the police have a search warrant and find the password
>>>> (written down for example) or recovery key then they'll get in.
>>>
>>> OK, you're goalpost shifting now. You're done.
>>
>> Not at all.  While my sys password is in my head, my system HD recovery
>> key is written down and only superficially disguised.  A determined
>> investigator/hacker has a good chance of connecting the dots.
> 
> You’re an idiot.

Not at all.  I'm also not a memory champion when it comes to recovery 
keys of 24 hex chars.  So it's written down, put away and there's 
nothing identifying "what" it is the key for.

If someone breaks into that drive they're going to be bored at most.

-- 
"2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants.  Proof that we
  need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
                                           - unknown protester

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#121594

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2019-02-01 22:02 +0000
Message-ID<gbjtvbF7k4U5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#121584
On 2019-02-01, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2019-02-01 12:05, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Not at all.  While my sys password is in my head, my system HD recovery
>>> key is written down and only superficially disguised.  A determined
>>> investigator/hacker has a good chance of connecting the dots.
>> 
>> You’re an idiot.
>
> Not at all.  I'm also not a memory champion when it comes to recovery 
> keys of 24 hex chars.

Neither can I, but what I don't do is write it down on a piece of
fucking paper. It's safely stored in a text file in an encrypted disk
image.

> If someone breaks into that drive they're going to be bored at most.

The fool's mantra.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#121598

FromAlan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
Date2019-02-01 18:37 -0500
Message-ID<MIidnfxv07_ZRcnBnZ2dnUU7-bvNnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#121594
On 2019-02-01 17:02, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2019-02-01, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2019-02-01 12:05, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Not at all.  While my sys password is in my head, my system HD recovery
>>>> key is written down and only superficially disguised.  A determined
>>>> investigator/hacker has a good chance of connecting the dots.
>>>
>>> You’re an idiot.
>>
>> Not at all.  I'm also not a memory champion when it comes to recovery
>> keys of 24 hex chars.
> 
> Neither can I, but what I don't do is write it down on a piece of
> fucking paper. It's safely stored in a text file in an encrypted disk
> image.

Good for you.  If you ever break into my house, please have fun locating 
where my recovery key is written.

> 
>> If someone breaks into that drive they're going to be bored at most.
> 
> The fool's mantra.

You're a true bore.  You have no idea how I protect data that matters, 
such as financials, my business and other things.


-- 
"2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants.  Proof that we
  need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
                                           - unknown protester

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#121452

FromAlan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
Date2019-01-31 09:14 -0500
Message-ID<hIKdnXuX54Ign87BnZ2dnUU7-LednZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#121420
On 2019-01-30 19:21, Wade Garrett wrote:
> I inadvertently created a copy of confidential Pages document that 
> resides on an encrypted sparsebundle on my spinning Macintosh HD (Mojave 
> 10.14.3).
> 
> How can I securely delete the copy?
> 
> I guess I could just drag it to the trash bin, empty the trash bin and 
> then wipe the free space on the drive- but that seems like time 
> consuming over-kill.

Unfortunately since Apple removed the ability to securely erase files, 
there is no certain way other than deleting the file, emptying the trash 
and then filling all the empty space with garbage.

I wrote a simple utility to do just that (writes thousands of files of 
50KB ... 500KB each of random numbers until some number of GB is 
reached.  I use this before decommissioning drives).

There are 3rd party tools that can do it (I believe).

You could write several dozen same-sized files to the drives in the 
likely (but not certain) case that it would write those sectors (or many 
of them).

If the drive itself is encrypted then I wouldn't get too worried about 
it.  IAC it will get written over as a function of normal use over time.

-- 
"2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants.  Proof that we
  need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
                                           - unknown protester

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#121455

FromPercival John Hackworth <pjh@nanoworks.com>
Date2019-01-31 07:59 -0800
Message-ID<0001HW.220352EC01A3137E151AD62CF@news.individual.net>
In reply to#121420
On 30-Jan-2019, Wade Garrett wrote
(in article <q2tf2m$1th$1@news.albasani.net>):

> I inadvertently created a copy of confidential Pages document that
> resides on an encrypted sparsebundle on my spinning Macintosh HD (Mojave
> 10.14.3).
>
> How can I securely delete the copy?
>
> I guess I could just drag it to the trash bin, empty the trash bin and
> then wipe the free space on the drive- but that seems like time
> consuming over-kill.

If you drag the files you want deleted to the trash, then select "Secure 
Empty Trash" from the Finder's Finder menu, that will delete the file by 
overwriting it with random patterns. This is not recommended for SSD drives 
as it will wear out the "cells" used to store the data with multiple writes 
to it.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button! DeeDee! NO! Dee...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#121456

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2019-01-31 11:04 -0500
Message-ID<310120191104352573%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#121455
In article <0001HW.220352EC01A3137E151AD62CF@news.individual.net>,
Percival John Hackworth <pjh@nanoworks.com> wrote:

> > I inadvertently created a copy of confidential Pages document that
> > resides on an encrypted sparsebundle on my spinning Macintosh HD (Mojave
> > 10.14.3).
> >
> > How can I securely delete the copy?
> >
> > I guess I could just drag it to the trash bin, empty the trash bin and
> > then wipe the free space on the drive- but that seems like time
> > consuming over-kill.
> 
> If you drag the files you want deleted to the trash, then select "Secure 
> Empty Trash" from the Finder's Finder menu, that will delete the file by 
> overwriting it with random patterns. This is not recommended for SSD drives 
> as it will wear out the "cells" used to store the data with multiple writes 
> to it.

that option is no longer available since it does not work on ssds.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#121532

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2019-02-01 05:28 +0000
Message-ID<slrnq57m7a.1anp.g.kreme@jaka.local>
In reply to#121455
In message <0001HW.220352EC01A3137E151AD62CF@news.individual.net> Percival John Hackworth <pjh@nanoworks.com> wrote:
> On 30-Jan-2019, Wade Garrett wrote
> (in article <q2tf2m$1th$1@news.albasani.net>):

>> I inadvertently created a copy of confidential Pages document that
>> resides on an encrypted sparsebundle on my spinning Macintosh HD (Mojave
>> 10.14.3).
>>
>> How can I securely delete the copy?
>>
>> I guess I could just drag it to the trash bin, empty the trash bin and
>> then wipe the free space on the drive- but that seems like time
>> consuming over-kill.

> If you drag the files you want deleted to the trash, then select "Secure 
> Empty Trash" from the Finder's Finder menu, that will delete the file by 
> overwriting it with random patterns. This is not recommended for SSD drives 
> as it will wear out the "cells" used to store the data with multiple writes 
> to it.

This hasn't been a feature of macOS for several versions.



-- 
"...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely in one pretty and well-preserved piece, but to slide across the
finish line broadside, thoroughly used up, worn out, leaking oil, and
shouting GERONIMO!!!" -- Bill McKenna

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#121466

FromAlan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
Date2019-01-31 12:49 -0500
Message-ID<CamdnfIFPfiIqM7BnZ2dnUU7-X-dnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#121420
On 2019-01-30 19:21, Wade Garrett wrote:
> I inadvertently created a copy of confidential Pages document that 
> resides on an encrypted sparsebundle on my spinning Macintosh HD (Mojave 
> 10.14.3).
> 
> How can I securely delete the copy?
> 
> I guess I could just drag it to the trash bin, empty the trash bin and 
> then wipe the free space on the drive- but that seems like time 
> consuming over-kill.

Unfortunately since Apple removed the ability to securely erase files, 
there is no certain way other than deleting the file, emptying the trash 
and then filling all the empty space with garbage.

I wrote a simple utility to do just that (writes thousands of files of 
50KB ... 500KB each of random numbers until some number of GB is 
reached.  I use this before decommissioning drives).

There are 3rd party tools that can do it (I believe).

You could write several dozen same-sized files to the drives in the 
likely (but not certain) case that it would write those sectors (or many 
of them).

If the drive itself is encrypted then I wouldn't get too worried about 
it.  IAC it will get written over as a function of normal use over time.

-- 
"2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants.  Proof that we
  need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
                                           - unknown protester

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#121525

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2019-02-01 03:21 +0000
Message-ID<gbhs9uFgv5aU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#121420
Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
> I inadvertently created a copy of confidential Pages document that 
> resides on an encrypted sparsebundle on my spinning Macintosh HD (Mojave 
> 10.14.3).
> 
> How can I securely delete the copy?
> 
> I guess I could just drag it to the trash bin, empty the trash bin and 
> then wipe the free space on the drive- but that seems like time 
> consuming over-kill.

The reason you are worried about that is your startup drive is not secured,
which means that file you deleted is just one of many that someone could
read.

Enable full-disk encryption on the startup disk by enabling System
Preferences > Security > FileVault, then a would-be thief won't be able to
boot from or access the encrypted data on the startup disk - even if they
remove it from the computer and put it into another computer or enclosure.
Your data is safely encrypted. 

Set a firmware password on your Mac so the computer will refuse to start up
from any internal or external storage device other than the startup disk
you have selected in the System Preferences > Startup Disk preference pane.


Enable Find My Mac in System Preferences > iCloud > Find My Mac, then if
your Mac is lost or stolen, you'll be able to remotely lock it, track its
physical location, display a custom message on it, play an alarm sound on
it, and even erase the contents of the startup drive remotely from any iOS
device or any computer with a web browser. 

With that setup if you delete a file on the startup disk, you don’t have to
take any further action, because all of your data is encrypted.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#121535

FromEd Norton <norton@nowhere.com>
Date2019-02-01 04:49 -0500
Message-ID<0001HW.D879806009031052B02919BF@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#121525
On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 22:21:34 -0500, Jolly Roger wrote
(in article <gbhs9uFgv5aU1@mid.individual.net>):

> Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
>> I inadvertently created a copy of confidential Pages document that 
>> resides on an encrypted sparsebundle on my spinning Macintosh HD (Mojave 
>> 10.14.3).
>> 
>> How can I securely delete the copy?
>> 
>> I guess I could just drag it to the trash bin, empty the trash bin and 
>> then wipe the free space on the drive- but that seems like time 
>> consuming over-kill.
> 
> The reason you are worried about that is your startup drive is not secured,
> which means that file you deleted is just one of many that someone could
> read.
> 
> Enable full-disk encryption on the startup disk by enabling System
> Preferences > Security > FileVault, then a would-be thief won't be able to
> boot from or access the encrypted data on the startup disk - even if they
> remove it from the computer and put it into another computer or enclosure.
> Your data is safely encrypted. 
> 
> Set a firmware password on your Mac so the computer will refuse to start up
> from any internal or external storage device other than the startup disk
> you have selected in the System Preferences > Startup Disk preference pane.
> 
> 
> Enable Find My Mac in System Preferences > iCloud > Find My Mac, then if
> your Mac is lost or stolen, you'll be able to remotely lock it, track its
> physical location, display a custom message on it, play an alarm sound on
> it, and even erase the contents of the startup drive remotely from any iOS
> device or any computer with a web browser. 
> 
> With that setup if you delete a file on the startup disk, you don’t have to
> take any further action, because all of your data is encrypted.
> 
> 

Not to argue but just to point out that this scenario assumes that 
anytime you are not physically at your computer you either log out, 
shut down, or force a password protected sleep.  That's pretty onerous 
if, for example, you work in an office environment with frequent 
interruptions... or have BPH :)  I wonder if Apple couldn't use the 
same facial recognition technology they use on the iPhone to 
automatically lock and unlock your computer when you leave/return.

-- 
Ed

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