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Mojave and File Servers

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  Mojave and File Servers Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-16 04:35 -0500
    Re: Mojave and File Servers Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-16 15:32 +0000
      Re: Mojave and File Servers Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-16 11:28 -0500
        Re: Mojave and File Servers Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-16 19:45 +0000
          Re: Mojave and File Servers Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-16 16:08 -0500
            Re: Mojave and File Servers Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-17 21:56 +0000
              Re: Mojave and File Servers Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-18 09:00 -0500
                Re: Mojave and File Servers "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-18 14:11 +0000
                  Re: Mojave and File Servers Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-18 11:36 -0500
                Re: Mojave and File Servers Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-18 10:53 -0500
                  Re: Mojave and File Servers Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-19 00:53 +0000
                    Re: Mojave and File Servers Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-19 05:53 -0500
                      Re: Mojave and File Servers bje@ripco.com - 2019-01-19 13:19 +0000
                        Re: Mojave and File Servers "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-19 13:49 +0000
                        Re: Mojave and File Servers Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-19 12:07 -0500
                          Re: Mojave and File Servers Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-19 12:36 -0500
                          Re: Mojave and File Servers bje@ripco.com - 2019-01-20 12:47 +0000

#120664 — Mojave and File Servers

I can't upgrade to Mojave because my computers aren't supported.  When 
I upgraded to High Sierra, I was disappointed to find out that 
Spotlight wouldn't work with volumes on a remote server.  That's a 
killer for me because I have a Mac Mini on my network that I use as a 
file server for a bunch of USB drives.  I was wondering if this has 
been fixed in Mojave.  I know a lot of you have personal networks with 
file servers.
 
-- 
Ed

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#120667

On 2019-01-16, Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
> I can't upgrade to Mojave because my computers aren't supported.  When 
> I upgraded to High Sierra, I was disappointed to find out that 
> Spotlight wouldn't work with volumes on a remote server.  That's a 
> killer for me because I have a Mac Mini on my network that I use as a 
> file server for a bunch of USB drives.  I was wondering if this has 
> been fixed in Mojave.  I know a lot of you have personal networks with 
> file servers.

I'm not sure what you are talking about. I'm running Mojave on my Mac
Pro and Spotlight searches work fine for me with shared volumes on my closet
Mac mini server running High Sierra. They work fine on my MacBook Pro
running High Sierra too. 

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#120669

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 10:32:23 -0500, Jolly Roger wrote
(in article <ga9147Fh2tuU2@mid.individual.net>):

> On 2019-01-16, Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> I can't upgrade to Mojave because my computers aren't supported.  When 
>> I upgraded to High Sierra, I was disappointed to find out that 
>> Spotlight wouldn't work with volumes on a remote server.  That's a 
>> killer for me because I have a Mac Mini on my network that I use as a 
>> file server for a bunch of USB drives.  I was wondering if this has 
>> been fixed in Mojave.  I know a lot of you have personal networks with 
>> file servers.
> 
> I'm not sure what you are talking about. I'm running Mojave on my Mac
> Pro and Spotlight searches work fine for me with shared volumes on my closet
> Mac mini server running High Sierra. They work fine on my MacBook Pro
> running High Sierra too. 

In my case, at least, Spotlight returns no results for a mounted 
volume.  Even the so-called "Finder Search" fails.  I searched around 
the various help groups and found that many people reported the same 
problem.  For example:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8119495 (Beta version, I know, but 
it is the earliest report and has never been reported as fixed)

and

https://www.reddit.com/r/macsysadmin/comments/6g43m5/spotlight_indexing_
on_network_drives/

A good explanation and a fix (for Sierra) is given here:

https://care.qumulo.com/hc/en-us/articles/115008514788-Mac-OS-X-
Spotlight-Search-and-Qumulo

but it doesn't work for High Sierra since there is no longer a

/private/var/db/Spotlight-V100/Volumes/ folder.  It has been changed to 
some name which concatenates the names of all remote volumes.

Perhaps if the remote server is also running High Sierra that makes a 
difference.  In my case the server is an old Mac Mini running Snow 
Leopard.  All the files are visible, they are just not able to be 
searched.  I understand that it make take a while for the High Sierra 
mds to index the remote volume but it doesn't even try.


-- 
Ed

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#120680

On 2019-01-16, Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 10:32:23 -0500, Jolly Roger wrote
> (in article <ga9147Fh2tuU2@mid.individual.net>):
>
>> On 2019-01-16, Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>> I can't upgrade to Mojave because my computers aren't supported.  When 
>>> I upgraded to High Sierra, I was disappointed to find out that 
>>> Spotlight wouldn't work with volumes on a remote server.  That's a 
>>> killer for me because I have a Mac Mini on my network that I use as a 
>>> file server for a bunch of USB drives.  I was wondering if this has 
>>> been fixed in Mojave.  I know a lot of you have personal networks with 
>>> file servers.
>> 
>> I'm not sure what you are talking about. I'm running Mojave on my Mac
>> Pro and Spotlight searches work fine for me with shared volumes on my closet
>> Mac mini server running High Sierra. They work fine on my MacBook Pro
>> running High Sierra too. 
>
> In my case, at least, Spotlight returns no results for a mounted 
> volume.  Even the so-called "Finder Search" fails.  I searched around 
> the various help groups and found that many people reported the same 
> problem.

Different things can cause you to be unable to search a remote volume
with Spotlight, and a lot of them have nothing to do with a supposed bug
in the operating system.

> A good explanation and a fix (for Sierra) is given here:
>
> https://care.qumulo.com/hc/en-us/articles/115008514788-Mac-OS-X-
> Spotlight-Search-and-Qumulo

You said you're running High Sierra. So I don;t see how this is
relevant.

> but it doesn't work for High Sierra since there is no longer a
>
> /private/var/db/Spotlight-V100/Volumes/ folder.  It has been changed to 
> some name which concatenates the names of all remote volumes.

I don't see any concatenated name of all volumes here:

# mdutil -s /Volumes/Files
/Volumes/Files:
	Indexing enabled. 

# pwd
/Volumes/Files/.Spotlight-V100

# ls -al
total 128
drwx------   5 root  admin   170 May 18  2018 .
drwxr-xr-x+ 21 root  staff   782 Jan 10 07:16 ..
drwx------   3 root  admin   102 May 18  2018 Store-V1
drwx------   3 root  admin   102 May 18  2018 Store-V2
-rw-------   1 root  admin  4115 May 18  2018 VolumeConfiguration.plist

> Perhaps if the remote server is also running High Sierra that makes a 
> difference.  In my case the server is an old Mac Mini running Snow 
> Leopard.  All the files are visible, they are just not able to be 
> searched.

I have a machine running Snow Leopard, and Spotlight works fine on its
shared volumes from a Mac Pro running Mojave and a MacBook Pro running
High Sierra..

Has it occurred to you that the problem may be with the machine running
Snow Leopard?

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#120687

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 14:45:48 -0500, Jolly Roger wrote
(in article <ga9fvcFk9igU1@mid.individual.net>):

> On 2019-01-16, Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 10:32:23 -0500, Jolly Roger wrote
>> (in article <ga9147Fh2tuU2@mid.individual.net>):
>> 
>>> On 2019-01-16, Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>> I can't upgrade to Mojave because my computers aren't supported.  When 
>>>> I upgraded to High Sierra, I was disappointed to find out that 
>>>> Spotlight wouldn't work with volumes on a remote server.  That's a 
>>>> killer for me because I have a Mac Mini on my network that I use as a 
>>>> file server for a bunch of USB drives.  I was wondering if this has 
>>>> been fixed in Mojave.  I know a lot of you have personal networks with 
>>>> file servers.
>>> 
>>> I'm not sure what you are talking about. I'm running Mojave on my Mac
>>> Pro and Spotlight searches work fine for me with shared volumes on my 
>>> closet
>>> Mac mini server running High Sierra. They work fine on my MacBook Pro
>>> running High Sierra too. 
>> 
>> In my case, at least, Spotlight returns no results for a mounted 
>> volume.  Even the so-called "Finder Search" fails.  I searched around 
>> the various help groups and found that many people reported the same 
>> problem.
> 
> Different things can cause you to be unable to search a remote volume
> with Spotlight, and a lot of them have nothing to do with a supposed bug
> in the operating system.
> 
>> A good explanation and a fix (for Sierra) is given here:
>> 
>> https://care.qumulo.com/hc/en-us/articles/115008514788-Mac-OS-X-
>> Spotlight-Search-and-Qumulo
> 
> You said you're running High Sierra. So I don;t see how this is
> relevant.
> 
>> but it doesn't work for High Sierra since there is no longer a
>> 
>> /private/var/db/Spotlight-V100/Volumes/ folder.  It has been changed to 
>> some name which concatenates the names of all remote volumes.
> 
> I don't see any concatenated name of all volumes here:
> 
> # mdutil -s /Volumes/Files
> /Volumes/Files:
> 	Indexing enabled. 
> 
> # pwd
> /Volumes/Files/.Spotlight-V100
> 
> # ls -al
> total 128
> drwx------   5 root  admin   170 May 18  2018 .
> drwxr-xr-x+ 21 root  staff   782 Jan 10 07:16 ..
> drwx------   3 root  admin   102 May 18  2018 Store-V1
> drwx------   3 root  admin   102 May 18  2018 Store-V2
> -rw-------   1 root  admin  4115 May 18  2018 VolumeConfiguration.plist

That's from Mojave, right?

> 
>> Perhaps if the remote server is also running High Sierra that makes a 
>> difference.  In my case the server is an old Mac Mini running Snow 
>> Leopard.  All the files are visible, they are just not able to be 
>> searched.
> 
> I have a machine running Snow Leopard, and Spotlight works fine on its
> shared volumes from a Mac Pro running Mojave and a MacBook Pro running
> High Sierra..
> 
> Has it occurred to you that the problem may be with the machine running
> Snow Leopard?
> 
> 

Very curious.  I have tried with several different Macs running Snow 
Leopard and get the same result.  I also formatted a USB Drive on the 
High Sierra machine and then moved it to a Snow Leopard machine.  Same 
result.

Here is the directory which appears in the High Sierra  
/private/var/db/Spotlight-VT100/Volumes which is where Spotlight is 
supposed to store the indices for remote volumes:

$ sudo ls -l /private/var/db/Spotlight-V100/Volumes/
total 0
drwx------  5 root  wheel  170 Jan  8 18:13 
afp%3A%2F%2Fsjc@Mac%2520Mini%25202010._afpovertcp._tcp.local%2FSeagate%2
5205TB

As you can see, the name is a concatenation of every volume it has seen 
rather than a directory per remote volume as in previous releases.
I tried replacing the Volumes directory with an empty one but it just 
rebuilds the concatenated one.

--------------------------------------
Here is the subdirectory list:

/private/var/db/Spotlight-
V100//Volumes/afp%3A%2F%2Fsjc@Mac%2520Mini%25202010._afpovertcp._tcp.loc
al%2FSeagate%25205TB:
total 8
drwx------  3 root  wheel   102 Jan  8 18:13 Store-V1
drwx------  2 root  wheel    68 Jan  8 18:13 Store-V2
-rw-------  1 root  wheel  3897 Jan  8 18:14 VolumeConfiguration.plist

/private/var/db/Spotlight-
V100//Volumes/afp%3A%2F%2Fsjc@Mac%2520Mini%25202010._afpovertcp._tcp.loc
al%2FSeagate%25205TB/Store-V1:
total 8
-rw-------  1 root  wheel  348 Jan  8 18:13 VolumeConfig.plist

/private/var/db/Spotlight-
V100//Volumes/afp%3A%2F%2Fsjc@Mac%2520Mini%25202010._afpovertcp._tcp.loc
al%2FSeagate%25205TB/Store-V2:

----------------------------------------------

I have tried mdutil to force indexing on a test drive (Untitled) but 
get the error message:

$ mdutil -s /Volumes/Untitled
/Volumes/Untitled:
	Server search enabled.

$ mdutil -i on /Volumes/Untitled
/Volumes/Untitled:
Error: unable to perform operation.  (-403)
	Server search enabled.

The High Sierra is a clean install on a MacBook Pro Early 2011.

-- 
Ed

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#120704

On 2019-01-16, Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 14:45:48 -0500, Jolly Roger wrote
> (in article <ga9fvcFk9igU1@mid.individual.net>):
>> On 2019-01-16, Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> but it doesn't work for High Sierra since there is no longer a
>>> 
>>> /private/var/db/Spotlight-V100/Volumes/ folder.  It has been changed to 
>>> some name which concatenates the names of all remote volumes.
>> 
>> I don't see any concatenated name of all volumes here:
>> 
>> # mdutil -s /Volumes/Files
>> /Volumes/Files:
>> 	Indexing enabled. 
>> 
>> # pwd
>> /Volumes/Files/.Spotlight-V100
>> 
>> # ls -al
>> total 128
>> drwx------   5 root  admin   170 May 18  2018 .
>> drwxr-xr-x+ 21 root  staff   782 Jan 10 07:16 ..
>> drwx------   3 root  admin   102 May 18  2018 Store-V1
>> drwx------   3 root  admin   102 May 18  2018 Store-V2
>> -rw-------   1 root  admin  4115 May 18  2018 VolumeConfiguration.plist
>
> That's from Mojave, right?

Actually, that's looking at the source file system on my Mac mini server
running High Sierra. This volume is being shared to other computers on
the network.

>>> Perhaps if the remote server is also running High Sierra that makes a 
>>> difference.  In my case the server is an old Mac Mini running Snow 
>>> Leopard.  All the files are visible, they are just not able to be 
>>> searched.
>> 
>> I have a machine running Snow Leopard, and Spotlight works fine on its
>> shared volumes from a Mac Pro running Mojave and a MacBook Pro running
>> High Sierra..
>> 
>> Has it occurred to you that the problem may be with the machine running
>> Snow Leopard?
>
> Very curious.  I have tried with several different Macs running Snow 
> Leopard and get the same result.  I also formatted a USB Drive on the 
> High Sierra machine and then moved it to a Snow Leopard machine.  Same 
> result.

Very interesting. I have two machines running Snow Leopard here at the
moment. I'm able to do Finder Spotlight searches on their mounted
volumes from my Mac Pro running 10.14 and my MacBook Pro running 10.13.

> I have tried mdutil to force indexing on a test drive (Untitled) but 
> get the error message:
>
> $ mdutil -s /Volumes/Untitled
> /Volumes/Untitled:
> 	Server search enabled.
>
> $ mdutil -i on /Volumes/Untitled
> /Volumes/Untitled:
> Error: unable to perform operation.  (-403)
> 	Server search enabled.
>
> The High Sierra is a clean install on a MacBook Pro Early 2011.

Do you have any other machines you can mount the shared volume on to see
if Spotlight searches work there?

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#120716

On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 16:56:49 -0500, Jolly Roger wrote
(in article <gacc11F98evU1@mid.individual.net>):

> On 2019-01-16, Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 14:45:48 -0500, Jolly Roger wrote
>> (in article <ga9fvcFk9igU1@mid.individual.net>):
>>> On 2019-01-16, Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> but it doesn't work for High Sierra since there is no longer a
>>>> 
>>>> /private/var/db/Spotlight-V100/Volumes/ folder.  It has been changed to 
>>>> some name which concatenates the names of all remote volumes.
>>> 
>>> I don't see any concatenated name of all volumes here:
>>> 
>>> # mdutil -s /Volumes/Files
>>> /Volumes/Files:
>>> 	Indexing enabled. 
>>> 
>>> # pwd
>>> /Volumes/Files/.Spotlight-V100
>>> 
>>> # ls -al
>>> total 128
>>> drwx------   5 root  admin   170 May 18  2018 .
>>> drwxr-xr-x+ 21 root  staff   782 Jan 10 07:16 ..
>>> drwx------   3 root  admin   102 May 18  2018 Store-V1
>>> drwx------   3 root  admin   102 May 18  2018 Store-V2
>>> -rw-------   1 root  admin  4115 May 18  2018 VolumeConfiguration.plist
>> 
>> That's from Mojave, right?
> 
> Actually, that's looking at the source file system on my Mac mini server
> running High Sierra. This volume is being shared to other computers on
> the network.
> 
>>>> Perhaps if the remote server is also running High Sierra that makes a 
>>>> difference.  In my case the server is an old Mac Mini running Snow 
>>>> Leopard.  All the files are visible, they are just not able to be 
>>>> searched.
>>> 
>>> I have a machine running Snow Leopard, and Spotlight works fine on its
>>> shared volumes from a Mac Pro running Mojave and a MacBook Pro running
>>> High Sierra..
>>> 
>>> Has it occurred to you that the problem may be with the machine running
>>> Snow Leopard?
>> 
>> Very curious.  I have tried with several different Macs running Snow 
>> Leopard and get the same result.  I also formatted a USB Drive on the 
>> High Sierra machine and then moved it to a Snow Leopard machine.  Same 
>> result.
> 
> Very interesting. I have two machines running Snow Leopard here at the
> moment. I'm able to do Finder Spotlight searches on their mounted
> volumes from my Mac Pro running 10.14 and my MacBook Pro running 10.13.
> 
>> I have tried mdutil to force indexing on a test drive (Untitled) but 
>> get the error message:
>> 
>> $ mdutil -s /Volumes/Untitled
>> /Volumes/Untitled:
>> 	Server search enabled.
>> 
>> $ mdutil -i on /Volumes/Untitled
>> /Volumes/Untitled:
>> Error: unable to perform operation.  (-403)
>> 	Server search enabled.
>> 
>> The High Sierra is a clean install on a MacBook Pro Early 2011.
> 
> Do you have any other machines you can mount the shared volume on to see
> if Spotlight searches work there?
> 
> 

Well, I have made _some_ progress.  First of all I went back and 
noticed you listed /Volumes/Files/.Spotlight-V100.  That is the 
directory for the local volumes.  The directory for remote volumes is 
/private/var/db/Spotlight-VT100/Volumes.  That's the directory I found 
the concatenated volume names in.  I'd be interested to see what you 
find there.

I have another machine with Sierra (as opposed to High Sierra) running 
and it does manage to do a "Finder Search" of the remote volume.  
That's apparently what mdutil means when it reports "Search Enabled" 
(as opposed to "indexing enabled") for a volume.  Both Sierra and High 
Sierra report Search Enabled for the remote volume but only Sierra 
performs the search.

On both machines mdutil -i on <volume name> refuses to turn indexing on 
reporting an error and consoling me with a "Search enabled" message.It 
also suggests I can turn indexing on if I run as root (I am using 
sudo).  It has been suggested in some of the research I have done that 
Apple doesn't want you indexing remote volumes because it would take 
too long and clog up the network.  Sounds about right.  But apparently 
a Finder search is less efficient than a Spotlight index.  There is a 
way to force Spotlight to load a Spotlight index found on the remote 
volume and use that but I haven't tried it.

I removed the concatenated volume directory on HS but I still can't 
Finder search any remote volume in High Sierra.  Since it is a clean 
install I don't see much of a point in installing it again but I guess 
I'll try that as a last resort.  A pain in the ass since the computer 
won't boot off a USB disk.  Something about the EFI.  I remember I had 
trouble setting it up initially.

I always assumed the "Finder Search" used the same database as 
Spotlight but I guess not.  Seems like it would take a long time to 
crawl all the directories.

-- 
Ed

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#120717

On 18/01/2019 14:00, Ed Norton wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 16:56:49 -0500, Jolly Roger wrote
> (in article <gacc11F98evU1@mid.individual.net>):
> 
>> On 2019-01-16, Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 14:45:48 -0500, Jolly Roger wrote
>>> (in article <ga9fvcFk9igU1@mid.individual.net>):
>>>> On 2019-01-16, Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> but it doesn't work for High Sierra since there is no longer a
>>>>>
>>>>> /private/var/db/Spotlight-V100/Volumes/ folder.  It has been changed to
>>>>> some name which concatenates the names of all remote volumes.
>>>>
>>>> I don't see any concatenated name of all volumes here:
>>>>
>>>> # mdutil -s /Volumes/Files
>>>> /Volumes/Files:
>>>> 	Indexing enabled.
>>>>
>>>> # pwd
>>>> /Volumes/Files/.Spotlight-V100
>>>>
>>>> # ls -al
>>>> total 128
>>>> drwx------   5 root  admin   170 May 18  2018 .
>>>> drwxr-xr-x+ 21 root  staff   782 Jan 10 07:16 ..
>>>> drwx------   3 root  admin   102 May 18  2018 Store-V1
>>>> drwx------   3 root  admin   102 May 18  2018 Store-V2
>>>> -rw-------   1 root  admin  4115 May 18  2018 VolumeConfiguration.plist
>>>
>>> That's from Mojave, right?
>>
>> Actually, that's looking at the source file system on my Mac mini server
>> running High Sierra. This volume is being shared to other computers on
>> the network.
>>
>>>>> Perhaps if the remote server is also running High Sierra that makes a
>>>>> difference.  In my case the server is an old Mac Mini running Snow
>>>>> Leopard.  All the files are visible, they are just not able to be
>>>>> searched.
>>>>
>>>> I have a machine running Snow Leopard, and Spotlight works fine on its
>>>> shared volumes from a Mac Pro running Mojave and a MacBook Pro running
>>>> High Sierra..
>>>>
>>>> Has it occurred to you that the problem may be with the machine running
>>>> Snow Leopard?
>>>
>>> Very curious.  I have tried with several different Macs running Snow
>>> Leopard and get the same result.  I also formatted a USB Drive on the
>>> High Sierra machine and then moved it to a Snow Leopard machine.  Same
>>> result.
>>
>> Very interesting. I have two machines running Snow Leopard here at the
>> moment. I'm able to do Finder Spotlight searches on their mounted
>> volumes from my Mac Pro running 10.14 and my MacBook Pro running 10.13.
>>
>>> I have tried mdutil to force indexing on a test drive (Untitled) but
>>> get the error message:
>>>
>>> $ mdutil -s /Volumes/Untitled
>>> /Volumes/Untitled:
>>> 	Server search enabled.
>>>
>>> $ mdutil -i on /Volumes/Untitled
>>> /Volumes/Untitled:
>>> Error: unable to perform operation.  (-403)
>>> 	Server search enabled.
>>>
>>> The High Sierra is a clean install on a MacBook Pro Early 2011.
>>
>> Do you have any other machines you can mount the shared volume on to see
>> if Spotlight searches work there?
>>
>>
> 
> Well, I have made _some_ progress.  First of all I went back and
> noticed you listed /Volumes/Files/.Spotlight-V100.  That is the
> directory for the local volumes.  The directory for remote volumes is
> /private/var/db/Spotlight-VT100/Volumes.  That's the directory I found
> the concatenated volume names in.  I'd be interested to see what you
> find there.
> 
> I have another machine with Sierra (as opposed to High Sierra) running
> and it does manage to do a "Finder Search" of the remote volume.
> That's apparently what mdutil means when it reports "Search Enabled"
> (as opposed to "indexing enabled") for a volume.  Both Sierra and High
> Sierra report Search Enabled for the remote volume but only Sierra
> performs the search.
> 
> On both machines mdutil -i on <volume name> refuses to turn indexing on
> reporting an error and consoling me with a "Search enabled" message.It
> also suggests I can turn indexing on if I run as root (I am using
> sudo).  It has been suggested in some of the research I have done that
> Apple doesn't want you indexing remote volumes because it would take
> too long and clog up the network.  Sounds about right.  But apparently
> a Finder search is less efficient than a Spotlight index.  There is a
> way to force Spotlight to load a Spotlight index found on the remote
> volume and use that but I haven't tried it.
> 
> I removed the concatenated volume directory on HS but I still can't
> Finder search any remote volume in High Sierra.  Since it is a clean
> install I don't see much of a point in installing it again but I guess
> I'll try that as a last resort.  A pain in the ass since the computer
> won't boot off a USB disk.  Something about the EFI.  I remember I had
> trouble setting it up initially.
> 
> I always assumed the "Finder Search" used the same database as
> Spotlight but I guess not.  Seems like it would take a long time to
> crawl all the directories.

Hi Ed

I'm no 'techie' but have found from personal experience that there's a 
very good facility available from the App store called 'Easy Find'.

It's not difficult to use - quite fun in fact! :-)

Perhaps you'll install it and report if you find it helpful (pun 
intended! ;-) )

-- 
David B.

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#120721

On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 09:11:10 -0500, David B. wrote
(in article <48l0E.38298$7S2.28579@fx08.fr7>):

> On 18/01/2019 14:00, Ed Norton wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 16:56:49 -0500, Jolly Roger wrote
>> (in article <gacc11F98evU1@mid.individual.net>):
>> 
>>> On 2019-01-16, Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 14:45:48 -0500, Jolly Roger wrote
>>>> (in article <ga9fvcFk9igU1@mid.individual.net>):
>>>>> On 2019-01-16, Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> but it doesn't work for High Sierra since there is no longer a
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> /private/var/db/Spotlight-V100/Volumes/ folder.  It has been changed to
>>>>>> some name which concatenates the names of all remote volumes.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don't see any concatenated name of all volumes here:
>>>>> 
>>>>> # mdutil -s /Volumes/Files
>>>>> /Volumes/Files:
>>>>> 	Indexing enabled.
>>>>> 
>>>>> # pwd
>>>>> /Volumes/Files/.Spotlight-V100
>>>>> 
>>>>> # ls -al
>>>>> total 128
>>>>> drwx------   5 root  admin   170 May 18  2018 .
>>>>> drwxr-xr-x+ 21 root  staff   782 Jan 10 07:16 ..
>>>>> drwx------   3 root  admin   102 May 18  2018 Store-V1
>>>>> drwx------   3 root  admin   102 May 18  2018 Store-V2
>>>>> -rw-------   1 root  admin  4115 May 18  2018 VolumeConfiguration.plist
>>>> 
>>>> That's from Mojave, right?
>>> 
>>> Actually, that's looking at the source file system on my Mac mini server
>>> running High Sierra. This volume is being shared to other computers on
>>> the network.
>>> 
>>>>>> Perhaps if the remote server is also running High Sierra that makes a
>>>>>> difference.  In my case the server is an old Mac Mini running Snow
>>>>>> Leopard.  All the files are visible, they are just not able to be
>>>>>> searched.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have a machine running Snow Leopard, and Spotlight works fine on its
>>>>> shared volumes from a Mac Pro running Mojave and a MacBook Pro running
>>>>> High Sierra..
>>>>> 
>>>>> Has it occurred to you that the problem may be with the machine running
>>>>> Snow Leopard?
>>>> 
>>>> Very curious.  I have tried with several different Macs running Snow
>>>> Leopard and get the same result.  I also formatted a USB Drive on the
>>>> High Sierra machine and then moved it to a Snow Leopard machine.  Same
>>>> result.
>>> 
>>> Very interesting. I have two machines running Snow Leopard here at the
>>> moment. I'm able to do Finder Spotlight searches on their mounted
>>> volumes from my Mac Pro running 10.14 and my MacBook Pro running 10.13.
>>> 
>>>> I have tried mdutil to force indexing on a test drive (Untitled) but
>>>> get the error message:
>>>> 
>>>> $ mdutil -s /Volumes/Untitled
>>>> /Volumes/Untitled:
>>>> 	Server search enabled.
>>>> 
>>>> $ mdutil -i on /Volumes/Untitled
>>>> /Volumes/Untitled:
>>>> Error: unable to perform operation.  (-403)
>>>> 	Server search enabled.
>>>> 
>>>> The High Sierra is a clean install on a MacBook Pro Early 2011.
>>> 
>>> Do you have any other machines you can mount the shared volume on to see
>>> if Spotlight searches work there?
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> Well, I have made _some_ progress.  First of all I went back and
>> noticed you listed /Volumes/Files/.Spotlight-V100.  That is the
>> directory for the local volumes.  The directory for remote volumes is
>> /private/var/db/Spotlight-VT100/Volumes.  That's the directory I found
>> the concatenated volume names in.  I'd be interested to see what you
>> find there.
>> 
>> I have another machine with Sierra (as opposed to High Sierra) running
>> and it does manage to do a "Finder Search" of the remote volume.
>> That's apparently what mdutil means when it reports "Search Enabled"
>> (as opposed to "indexing enabled") for a volume.  Both Sierra and High
>> Sierra report Search Enabled for the remote volume but only Sierra
>> performs the search.
>> 
>> On both machines mdutil -i on <volume name> refuses to turn indexing on
>> reporting an error and consoling me with a "Search enabled" message.It
>> also suggests I can turn indexing on if I run as root (I am using
>> sudo).  It has been suggested in some of the research I have done that
>> Apple doesn't want you indexing remote volumes because it would take
>> too long and clog up the network.  Sounds about right.  But apparently
>> a Finder search is less efficient than a Spotlight index.  There is a
>> way to force Spotlight to load a Spotlight index found on the remote
>> volume and use that but I haven't tried it.
>> 
>> I removed the concatenated volume directory on HS but I still can't
>> Finder search any remote volume in High Sierra.  Since it is a clean
>> install I don't see much of a point in installing it again but I guess
>> I'll try that as a last resort.  A pain in the ass since the computer
>> won't boot off a USB disk.  Something about the EFI.  I remember I had
>> trouble setting it up initially.
>> 
>> I always assumed the "Finder Search" used the same database as
>> Spotlight but I guess not.  Seems like it would take a long time to
>> crawl all the directories.
> 
> Hi Ed
> 
> I'm no 'techie' but have found from personal experience that there's a 
> very good facility available from the App store called 'Easy Find'.
> 
> It's not difficult to use - quite fun in fact! :-)
> 
> Perhaps you'll install it and report if you find it helpful (pun 
> intended! ;-) )
> 
> 

Thanks for the suggestion.  Im hoping I won't need it.

-- 
Ed

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#120719

On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 09:00:54 -0500, Ed Norton wrote
(in article <0001HW.D86746460561E35FB02919BF@news.astraweb.com>):

> On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 16:56:49 -0500, Jolly Roger wrote
> (in article <gacc11F98evU1@mid.individual.net>):
> 
>> On 2019-01-16, Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 14:45:48 -0500, Jolly Roger wrote
>>> (in article <ga9fvcFk9igU1@mid.individual.net>):
>>>> On 2019-01-16, Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> but it doesn't work for High Sierra since there is no longer a
>>>>> 
>>>>> /private/var/db/Spotlight-V100/Volumes/ folder.  It has been changed to 
>>>>> some name which concatenates the names of all remote volumes.
>>>> 
>>>> I don't see any concatenated name of all volumes here:
>>>> 
>>>> # mdutil -s /Volumes/Files
>>>> /Volumes/Files:
>>>> 	Indexing enabled. 
>>>> 
>>>> # pwd
>>>> /Volumes/Files/.Spotlight-V100
>>>> 
>>>> # ls -al
>>>> total 128
>>>> drwx------   5 root  admin   170 May 18  2018 .
>>>> drwxr-xr-x+ 21 root  staff   782 Jan 10 07:16 ..
>>>> drwx------   3 root  admin   102 May 18  2018 Store-V1
>>>> drwx------   3 root  admin   102 May 18  2018 Store-V2
>>>> -rw-------   1 root  admin  4115 May 18  2018 VolumeConfiguration.plist
>>> 
>>> That's from Mojave, right?
>> 
>> Actually, that's looking at the source file system on my Mac mini server
>> running High Sierra. This volume is being shared to other computers on
>> the network.
>> 
>>>>> Perhaps if the remote server is also running High Sierra that makes a 
>>>>> difference.  In my case the server is an old Mac Mini running Snow 
>>>>> Leopard.  All the files are visible, they are just not able to be 
>>>>> searched.
>>>> 
>>>> I have a machine running Snow Leopard, and Spotlight works fine on its
>>>> shared volumes from a Mac Pro running Mojave and a MacBook Pro running
>>>> High Sierra..
>>>> 
>>>> Has it occurred to you that the problem may be with the machine running
>>>> Snow Leopard?
>>> 
>>> Very curious.  I have tried with several different Macs running Snow 
>>> Leopard and get the same result.  I also formatted a USB Drive on the 
>>> High Sierra machine and then moved it to a Snow Leopard machine.  Same 
>>> result.
>> 
>> Very interesting. I have two machines running Snow Leopard here at the
>> moment. I'm able to do Finder Spotlight searches on their mounted
>> volumes from my Mac Pro running 10.14 and my MacBook Pro running 10.13.
>> 
>>> I have tried mdutil to force indexing on a test drive (Untitled) but 
>>> get the error message:
>>> 
>>> $ mdutil -s /Volumes/Untitled
>>> /Volumes/Untitled:
>>> 	Server search enabled.
>>> 
>>> $ mdutil -i on /Volumes/Untitled
>>> /Volumes/Untitled:
>>> Error: unable to perform operation.  (-403)
>>> 	Server search enabled.
>>> 
>>> The High Sierra is a clean install on a MacBook Pro Early 2011.
>> 
>> Do you have any other machines you can mount the shared volume on to see
>> if Spotlight searches work there?
>> 
>> 
> 
> Well, I have made _some_ progress.  First of all I went back and 
> noticed you listed /Volumes/Files/.Spotlight-V100.  That is the 
> directory for the local volumes.  The directory for remote volumes is 
> /private/var/db/Spotlight-VT100/Volumes.  That's the directory I found 
> the concatenated volume names in.  I'd be interested to see what you 
> find there.
> 
> I have another machine with Sierra (as opposed to High Sierra) running 
> and it does manage to do a "Finder Search" of the remote volume.  
> That's apparently what mdutil means when it reports "Search Enabled" 
> (as opposed to "indexing enabled") for a volume.  Both Sierra and High 
> Sierra report Search Enabled for the remote volume but only Sierra 
> performs the search.
> 
> On both machines mdutil -i on <volume name> refuses to turn indexing on 
> reporting an error and consoling me with a "Search enabled" message.It 
> also suggests I can turn indexing on if I run as root (I am using 
> sudo).  It has been suggested in some of the research I have done that 
> Apple doesn't want you indexing remote volumes because it would take 
> too long and clog up the network.  Sounds about right.  But apparently 
> a Finder search is less efficient than a Spotlight index.  There is a 
> way to force Spotlight to load a Spotlight index found on the remote 
> volume and use that but I haven't tried it.
> 
> I removed the concatenated volume directory on HS but I still can't 
> Finder search any remote volume in High Sierra.  Since it is a clean 
> install I don't see much of a point in installing it again but I guess 
> I'll try that as a last resort.  A pain in the ass since the computer 
> won't boot off a USB disk.  Something about the EFI.  I remember I had 
> trouble setting it up initially.
> 
> I always assumed the "Finder Search" used the same database as 
> Spotlight but I guess not.  Seems like it would take a long time to 
> crawl all the directories.
> 
> 

Nope.  I just wiped the disk and did a totally clean install of the 
latest High Sierra over the network from the Apple Store.  Still can't 
Finder search any network disk.  I'm stumped.  I can't understand why 
it works for you and not for me. Not only can't I search the disk 
attached to the remote server, I can't search the remote server itself.

-- 
Ed

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#120751

On 2019-01-18, Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> Nope.  I just wiped the disk and did a totally clean install of the 
> latest High Sierra over the network from the Apple Store.  Still can't 
> Finder search any network disk.  I'm stumped.  I can't understand why 
> it works for you and not for me. Not only can't I search the disk 
> attached to the remote server, I can't search the remote server itself.

The only thing I can figure is there's likely something wrong with the
file server sharing the volume. That's where the indexing happens - not
on the client that mounts the volume.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#120771

On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 19:53:29 -0500, Jolly Roger wrote
(in article <gafao9Fso3hU8@mid.individual.net>):

> On 2019-01-18, Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Nope.  I just wiped the disk and did a totally clean install of the 
>> latest High Sierra over the network from the Apple Store.  Still can't 
>> Finder search any network disk.  I'm stumped.  I can't understand why 
>> it works for you and not for me. Not only can't I search the disk 
>> attached to the remote server, I can't search the remote server itself.
> 
> The only thing I can figure is there's likely something wrong with the
> file server sharing the volume. That's where the indexing happens - not
> on the client that mounts the volume.
> 

I don't think it has anything to do with the file server sharing the 
volume because I can't search the file server itself whether it is Snow 
Leopard, Yosemite, or Sierra.

I'm thinking it might be a permissions issue.  I also can't search the 
High Sierra disk from a Snow Leopard machine.  Searching works among 
all my Sierra, Yosemite, and Snow Leopard machines but not with the 
High Sierra machine.

I use the same user name and password on all my machines and I am the 
only user.  Do you?  I notice all the Spotlight folders are 700 and 
owned by root so only root can read and search them.

The clean install got rid of the crazy concatenated directory in 
/private/var/db.

Also, since Sierra works, I wonder if it makes a difference if you 
upgrade a Sierra Machine to High Sierra vs a clean install?  Maybe it 
leaves the Spotlight directory behind.  Or some other directory or 
flag.  I just can't think of any other reason it would work for you and 
not for me.

Something has to have changed in High Sierra.

Any idea how I can do a clean network install of Sierra so I can try it 
and then upgrade to High Sierra?  The Network install only gives you 
the option to install the last version of the OS that was on the 
machine, ie High Sierra.  I don't see an option to install an earlier 
OS.


-- 
Ed

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#120773

Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:

> I use the same user name and password on all my machines and I am the 
> only user.

Yeah but that never meant dick on unix machines, the user id and group is
the basis for file permissions.

Just to double check, on each machine, open a terminal window and type the
letters id.

This is on El Capitan but should be similar...

newmini:~ bje$ id uid=501(bje) gid=20(staff),
groups=20(staff),12(everyone),61(localaccounts),79(_appserverusr),80(admin),
81(_appserveradm),98(_lpadmin),33(_appstore),100(_lpoperator),204(_developer),
395(com.apple.access_ftp),398(com.apple.access_screensharing),
399(com.apple.access_ssh)

The first two are the important ones (uid and gid). Off hand I don't
remember apple ever using anything else besides uid=501 for the primary user
account, but worth checking.

My question is how is the remote volume (or drive) being mounted?

For some reason I remember there is a difference between opening a finder
window, under "Shared" on the left side of the panel and mounting there
and using the menu bar and Finder -> Go -> Connect to server.

If the remote is password protected, I beleive you need to use the finder
window to "Connect As...". You used to be able to use the "Connect to
server" from the menu bar via something like:

afp://username:password@192.168.1.100/VolumeName

but they broke something (I think) using afp. It still works fine using smb
or nfs though. Using the finder window, I beleive it only supports mounts
from afp.

But why I'm asking is after looking at the back-and-forth with this thread,
I don't see anything about if the remote drive is being mounted on the
client where you can see it on the desktop, if it can be opened and if the
files are visible in it?

Also if you still have that terminal window open, try this:

mdutil -as

that should show all the mounted volumes and their status for indexing.

Beleive it or not, a remote volume doesn't need to be enabled. Searching for
a filename is just slower but it will eventually find it. Enabling it makes
it's quicker (file name search) but I have no idea how Spotlight handles it
because I really don't use it. It doesn't seem like Spotlight looks at
remote volumes and there doesn't seem to be a way to force it.

But like I said, I'm more interested in if the remote volume is actually
mounting, is visible on the desktop, can be opened and rummaged around.

One test I do from the terminal window (again) when having permissions
problems is cd into the volume/directory of the remote from the client and
do a "touch zzz" and see if a file is created. Then try to "rm zzz".

Apple does weird things with that 501 uid and it's possible it's not being
mounted correctly (depending on how it's mounted).

-bruce
bje@ripco.com

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#120776

On 19/01/2019 13:19, bje@ripco.com wrote:
> Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
> 
>> I use the same user name and password on all my machines and I am the
>> only user.
> 
> Yeah but that never meant dick on unix machines, the user id and group is
> the basis for file permissions.
> 
> Just to double check, on each machine, open a terminal window and type the
> letters id.
> 
> This is on El Capitan but should be similar...
> 
> newmini:~ bje$ id uid=501(bje) gid=20(staff),
> groups=20(staff),12(everyone),61(localaccounts),79(_appserverusr),80(admin),
> 81(_appserveradm),98(_lpadmin),33(_appstore),100(_lpoperator),204(_developer),
> 395(com.apple.access_ftp),398(com.apple.access_screensharing),
> 399(com.apple.access_ssh)
> 
> The first two are the important ones (uid and gid). Off hand I don't
> remember apple ever using anything else besides uid=501 for the primary user
> account, but worth checking.
[....]


Interesting! Thanks.

I see this:-

uid=501(davidb) gid=20(staff) 
groups=20(staff),701(com.apple.sharepoint.group.1),12(everyone),61(localaccounts),
79(_appserverusr),80(admin),81(_appserveradm),98(_lpadmin),
398(com.apple.access_screensharing),33(_appstore),100(_lpoperator),204(_developer),
250(_analyticsusers),395(com.apple.access_ftp),399(com.apple.access_ssh),
702(com.apple.sharepoint.group.2)

A little different to you, Bruce. Do I need to take any action?
-- 
David B.

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#120786

On Sat, 19 Jan 2019 08:19:26 -0500, bje@ripco.com wrote
(in article <q1v84u$d84$1@remote5bge0.ripco.com>):

> Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
> 
>> I use the same user name and password on all my machines and I am the 
>> only user.
> 
> Yeah but that never meant dick on unix machines, the user id and group is
> the basis for file permissions. [snip]

Yes, I know that.  I'm 501 on some machines and 502 on others because I 
created a "setup" account on some machines, then created an admin 
account for myself and deleted the setup account after the installation 
was done.

[snip]

> But why I'm asking is after looking at the back-and-forth with this thread,
> I don't see anything about if the remote drive is being mounted on the
> client where you can see it on the desktop, if it can be opened and if the
> files are visible in it?

Yes, it is mounted, everything is visible, folders can be opened and 
files opened and copied.  It just can't be searched via the Finder 
window.

 
> Also if you still have that terminal window open, try this:
> 
> mdutil -as
> 
> that should show all the mounted volumes and their status for indexing.

As I mentioned upthread, the remote computer shows "Server search 
enabled" as opposed to "Indexing enabled" as with a local drive.  If 
you try to enable indexing on the remote machine, you get an error 
message.  My understanding is that Spotlight is supposed to load the 
Spotlight index already on the remote machine and use that for 
searching.

> 
> Beleive it or not, a remote volume doesn't need to be enabled. Searching for
> a filename is just slower but it will eventually find it. Enabling it makes
> it's quicker (file name search) but I have no idea how Spotlight handles it
> because I really don't use it. It doesn't seem like Spotlight looks at
> remote volumes and there doesn't seem to be a way to force it.
> 
> But like I said, I'm more interested in if the remote volume is actually
> mounting, is visible on the desktop, can be opened and rummaged around.
> 
> One test I do from the terminal window (again) when having permissions
> problems is cd into the volume/directory of the remote from the client and
> do a "touch zzz" and see if a file is created. Then try to "rm zzz".

I can create and delete the file.

> 
> Apple does weird things with that 501 uid and it's possible it's not being
> mounted correctly (depending on how it's mounted).

I don't follow you.  What is the difference between a correct and an 
incorrect mount?

-- 
Ed

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#120790

So if the Spotlight directory on the target volume is owned by root 
with permissions 700 (as it is), that means that to search it from a 
client machine (ie one which has mounted the target volume on it's 
desktop) AFS has to either invoke mds on the target machine or mds ahs 
to make a local copy of the target machine's existing Spotlight 
directory on the client machine and search that.  Or the client 
Spotlight has to index the target volume itself (which it won't do).

Unless, of course, the root of the client machine trumps the root of 
the target machine :)  So are there two roots or one?  I'm so confused.
And then there are those pesky extended attributes...

For giggles, I created a dummy user on machine A and mounted his public 
folder on machine B.  ls -l on machine B shows me as the owner of 
dummy's public folder, not dummy.  How is that?

-- 
Ed

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#120850

Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:

> I don't follow you.  What is the difference between a correct and an 
> incorrect mount?

At some point in time (remember this was all pre sierra/high sierra) I
mounted a drive from another machine (the usual way I did it) and on the
client, the Finder worked fine (opening the drive, seeing files, copy or
delete, adding files to it) but in terminal, the file permissions were all
screwed up. They were shown with a uid of 1000 or 1001, some directories
were 700 permissions which I couldn't cd into from terminal, but like I
said, on finder, everything worked as it was supposed to.

What was more odd, if you jumped on terminal from the machine exporting the
drive (or file system), everything looked normal there. This could of been
when apple was screwing around with that SMBX, not sure.

I just came up with a theory the finder does some auto-magic behind the
scene stuff with that uid 501 that isn't in terminal.

Not even sure what I did to fix it, I mostly use nfs for file sharing now
because it always seem to behave itself no matter what apple does with their
afp/smb/smbx/cifs crap. And nfs seems faster than any of them.

Anyway, I don't have any suggestions with your problem at this point, I
stuck with El Capitan because it's doing everything I need it to do and
until "no longer supported" starts popping up, I'm staying here.

All I can tell you is that the Finder search should work, currently I have 8
volumes mounted from a linux server (which knows nothing about Spotlight) on
my desktop and searching for a filename is a few seconds at most.

What I'm getting confused about is the relationship between Finder search
and Spotlight. I mean if you look at the man page for mdutil, right at the
top is this:

mdutil -- manage the metadata stores used by Spotlight

If I disable indexing for a remote volume you can still use finder to search
for a filename on it, but is painfully slow. Similar performance to that
Easy Find application mentioned on here (if it works at all).

I do have one thing that'll probably be a time waster, I always had a
question mark next to the -p option with mdutil...

     -p  Spotlight caches indexes of some network devices locally.  This
         option requests that a local caches be flushed to the appropriate
         network device.

All I every saw with that is "Error: datastore publishing not implemented.".

Other than that, good luck.

-bruce
bje@ripco.com

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