Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #120492 > unrolled thread
| Started by | "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2019-01-13 17:52 +0000 |
| Last post | 2019-01-29 05:56 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 123 — 22 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.sys.mac.system
Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-13 17:52 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-13 13:42 -0500
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> - 2019-01-13 19:48 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-13 19:52 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2019-01-13 11:55 -0800
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-13 22:04 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-13 22:19 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-13 22:33 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2019-01-13 23:53 +0100
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2019-01-13 18:10 -0500
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-13 22:54 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-13 23:05 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-13 23:23 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-01-13 18:27 -0500
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-13 23:32 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-14 02:12 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-14 07:46 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-14 17:10 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-01-14 12:57 -0500
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-14 20:16 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-15 01:28 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-01-14 20:41 -0500
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-01-13 19:59 -0500
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-14 02:22 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-14 07:43 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-14 17:09 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-01-14 14:28 -0500
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-14 19:58 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-14 20:19 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-14 20:24 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-15 00:28 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-15 11:37 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-15 15:50 +0000
It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-15 17:29 +0000
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-15 17:53 +0000
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-15 23:38 +0000
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-01-15 19:18 -0500
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-16 08:16 +0000
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2019-01-16 09:43 -0600
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-17 20:07 +0000
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.nony.mous@example.inwalid> - 2019-01-17 20:34 +0000
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2019-01-17 20:51 +0000
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-01-17 16:05 -0500
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.nony.mous@example.inwalid> - 2019-01-17 21:08 +0000
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2019-01-17 21:15 +0000
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.nony.mous@example.inwalid> - 2019-01-17 21:46 +0000
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2019-01-18 13:18 -0600
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-18 19:26 +0000
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2019-01-18 12:41 -0800
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-18 20:59 +0000
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.invalid> - 2019-02-01 10:46 +0000
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2019-02-01 08:44 -0800
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.invalid> - 2019-02-01 20:11 +0000
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-02-01 18:36 -0500
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2019-02-01 15:48 -0800
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.invalid> - 2019-02-01 23:53 +0000
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2019-02-01 20:09 -0800
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2019-02-03 11:47 -0800
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.invalid> - 2019-02-03 20:00 +0000
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2019-02-03 15:32 -0800
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.invalid> - 2019-02-04 01:02 +0000
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2019-02-03 17:30 -0800
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.invalid> - 2019-02-04 18:04 +0000
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> - 2019-02-04 13:19 -0500
TROLL post "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.invalid> - 2019-02-04 22:47 +0000
Re: TROLL post Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2019-02-04 19:24 -0800
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2019-02-04 16:31 -0800
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-18 00:44 +0000
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.nony.mous@example.inwalid> - 2019-01-18 01:25 +0000
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-18 01:40 +0000
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-16 00:23 +0000
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-16 08:11 +0000
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-01-15 12:55 -0500
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-15 18:29 +0000
Re: It's easy - when you know how! (was - Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-01-15 13:31 -0500
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-15 12:21 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2019-01-15 12:35 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-15 12:54 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2019-01-15 13:00 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-15 13:32 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-15 13:41 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-01-15 09:47 -0500
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-15 17:33 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-15 15:53 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-15 17:36 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-15 17:42 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-15 19:07 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-15 15:51 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-15 17:41 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-15 17:46 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-15 19:11 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-01-14 17:10 -0500
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-14 23:09 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-01-14 18:27 -0500
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-01-14 18:09 -0500
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-14 23:25 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-01-14 18:28 -0500
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-01-14 03:38 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2019-01-13 16:02 -0500
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-01-13 16:09 -0500
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Panthera Tigris Altaica <northentiger@outlook.com> - 2019-01-15 09:03 -0500
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-01-15 10:19 -0500
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-13 21:57 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-13 22:15 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-13 23:02 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2019-01-13 17:54 -0500
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-13 23:05 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2019-01-13 18:13 -0500
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2019-01-13 21:29 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Martin Edwards <buzzard554@fastmail.co.uk> - 2019-01-14 07:41 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-14 07:54 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Bob Campbell <none@none.none> - 2019-01-14 09:25 -0500
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-14 15:29 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-14 11:16 -0500
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Bob Campbell <none@none.none> - 2019-01-15 10:03 -0500
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2019-01-14 12:26 -0500
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2019-01-14 17:46 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2019-01-14 14:26 -0500
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2019-01-14 14:09 -0500
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2019-01-14 11:58 -0800
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-14 20:27 +0000
Re: Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-14 20:16 +0000
Re: Here's an equation Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident "Alex Hornkohl" <Nope@niente.it> - 2019-01-29 05:56 -0700
Page 1 of 7 [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next page →
| From | "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-13 17:52 +0000 |
| Subject | Here's The Scientific Reason Incompetent People Are Often So Confident |
| Message-ID | <DVK_D.60$7S2.15@fx08.fr7> |
For the particular attention of 'nospam' **************************************** You may have witnessed this scene at work, while socializing with friends or over a holiday dinner with extended family: Someone who has very little knowledge in a subject claims to know a lot. That person might even boast about being an expert. This phenomenon has a name: the Dunning-Kruger effect. It's not a disease, syndrome or mental illness; it is present in everybody to some extent, and it's been around as long as human cognition, though only recently has it been studied and documented in social psychology. In their 1999 paper, published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, David Dunning and Justin Kruger put data to what has been known by philosophers since Socrates, who supposedly said something along the lines of "the only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing." Charles Darwin followed that up in 1871 with "ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge." Put simply, incompetent people think they know more than they really do, and they tend to be more boastful about it. https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-why-incompetent-people-often-seem-so-confident? -- David B.
[toc] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-13 13:42 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <0001HW.D860F0B204198B3FB02919BF@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #120492 |
On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 12:52:33 -0500, David B. wrote (in article <DVK_D.60$7S2.15@fx08.fr7>): > For the particular attention of 'nospam' > **************************************** > > You may have witnessed this scene at work, while socializing with > friends or over a holiday dinner with extended family: Someone who has > very little knowledge in a subject claims to know a lot. That person > might even boast about being an expert. > > This phenomenon has a name: the Dunning-Kruger effect. It's not a > disease, syndrome or mental illness; it is present in everybody to some > extent, and it's been around as long as human cognition, though only > recently has it been studied and documented in social psychology. > > In their 1999 paper, published in the Journal of Personality and Social > Psychology, David Dunning and Justin Kruger put data to what has been > known by philosophers since Socrates, who supposedly said something > along the lines of "the only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing." > > Charles Darwin followed that up in 1871 with "ignorance more frequently > begets confidence than does knowledge." > > Put simply, incompetent people think they know more than they really do, > and they tend to be more boastful about it. > > https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-why-incompetent-people-often-seem- so-confi > dent? > > You seem to know a lot about this. -- Ed
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-13 19:48 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <q1g4lm$1nvn$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #120493 |
On 13/01/2019 18:42, Ed Norton wrote: > On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 12:52:33 -0500, David B. wrote > (in article <DVK_D.60$7S2.15@fx08.fr7>): > >> For the particular attention of 'nospam' >> **************************************** >> >> You may have witnessed this scene at work, while socializing with >> friends or over a holiday dinner with extended family: Someone who has >> very little knowledge in a subject claims to know a lot. That person >> might even boast about being an expert. >> >> This phenomenon has a name: the Dunning-Kruger effect. It's not a >> disease, syndrome or mental illness; it is present in everybody to some >> extent, and it's been around as long as human cognition, though only >> recently has it been studied and documented in social psychology. >> >> In their 1999 paper, published in the Journal of Personality and Social >> Psychology, David Dunning and Justin Kruger put data to what has been >> known by philosophers since Socrates, who supposedly said something >> along the lines of "the only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing." >> >> Charles Darwin followed that up in 1871 with "ignorance more frequently >> begets confidence than does knowledge." >> >> Put simply, incompetent people think they know more than they really do, >> and they tend to be more boastful about it. >> >> > https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-why-incompetent-people-often-seem- > so-confi >> dent? >> >> > > You seem to know a lot about this. > He has first hand experience.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-13 19:52 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <pGM_D.26778$us2.9801@fx30.fr7> |
| In reply to | #120493 |
On 13/01/2019 18:42, Ed Norton wrote: > On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 12:52:33 -0500, David B. wrote > (in article <DVK_D.60$7S2.15@fx08.fr7>): > >> For the particular attention of 'nospam' >> **************************************** >> >> You may have witnessed this scene at work, while socializing with >> friends or over a holiday dinner with extended family: Someone who has >> very little knowledge in a subject claims to know a lot. That person >> might even boast about being an expert. >> >> This phenomenon has a name: the Dunning-Kruger effect. It's not a >> disease, syndrome or mental illness; it is present in everybody to some >> extent, and it's been around as long as human cognition, though only >> recently has it been studied and documented in social psychology. >> >> In their 1999 paper, published in the Journal of Personality and Social >> Psychology, David Dunning and Justin Kruger put data to what has been >> known by philosophers since Socrates, who supposedly said something >> along the lines of "the only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing." >> >> Charles Darwin followed that up in 1871 with "ignorance more frequently >> begets confidence than does knowledge." >> >> Put simply, incompetent people think they know more than they really do, >> and they tend to be more boastful about it. >> >> >> https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-why-incompetent-people-often-seem-so-confident >> > > You seem to know a lot about this. One can learn a great deal from Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect -- David B.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-13 11:55 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <q1g53v$1qu8$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #120499 |
On 2019-01-13 11:52 a.m., David B. wrote: > On 13/01/2019 18:42, Ed Norton wrote: >> On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 12:52:33 -0500, David B. wrote >> (in article <DVK_D.60$7S2.15@fx08.fr7>): >> >>> For the particular attention of 'nospam' >>> **************************************** >>> >>> You may have witnessed this scene at work, while socializing with >>> friends or over a holiday dinner with extended family: Someone who has >>> very little knowledge in a subject claims to know a lot. That person >>> might even boast about being an expert. >>> >>> This phenomenon has a name: the Dunning-Kruger effect. It's not a >>> disease, syndrome or mental illness; it is present in everybody to some >>> extent, and it's been around as long as human cognition, though only >>> recently has it been studied and documented in social psychology. >>> >>> In their 1999 paper, published in the Journal of Personality and Social >>> Psychology, David Dunning and Justin Kruger put data to what has been >>> known by philosophers since Socrates, who supposedly said something >>> along the lines of "the only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing." >>> >>> Charles Darwin followed that up in 1871 with "ignorance more frequently >>> begets confidence than does knowledge." >>> >>> Put simply, incompetent people think they know more than they really do, >>> and they tend to be more boastful about it. >>> >>> >>> https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-why-incompetent-people-often-seem-so-confident >>> >>> >> >> You seem to know a lot about this. > > One can learn a great deal from Wikipedia. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect > Yet you cannot learn anything...
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-13 22:04 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ga1qvrFt856U2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #120493 |
On 2019-01-13, Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote: > On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 12:52:33 -0500, David B. wrote >> >> You may have witnessed this scene at work, while socializing with >> friends or over a holiday dinner with extended family: Someone who has >> very little knowledge in a subject claims to know a lot. That person >> might even boast about being an expert. >> >> (snip) >> >> Put simply, incompetent people think they know more than they really do, >> and they tend to be more boastful about it. >> > > You seem to know a lot about this. *mic drop* -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-13 22:19 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <uPO_D.69127$fJ4.38868@fx09.fr7> |
| In reply to | #120509 |
On 13/01/2019 22:04, Jolly Roger wrote: > On 2019-01-13, Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote: >> On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 12:52:33 -0500, David B. wrote >>> >>> You may have witnessed this scene at work, while socializing with >>> friends or over a holiday dinner with extended family: Someone who has >>> very little knowledge in a subject claims to know a lot. That person >>> might even boast about being an expert. >>> >>> (snip) >>> >>> Put simply, incompetent people think they know more than they really do, >>> and they tend to be more boastful about it. >>> >> >> You seem to know a lot about this. > > *mic drop* :-) *DO* you know why my iMac will not start in Safe Boot mode? What would YOU recommend that I do to correct matters? TIA -- David B.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-13 22:33 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <q1gepd$17e4$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #120511 |
On 13/01/2019 22:19, David B. wrote: > What would YOU recommend that I do to correct matters? > http://www.macoptions.com/contact.html
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-13 23:53 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <5c3bc164$0$19309$e4fe514c@textnews.kpn.nl> |
| In reply to | #120512 |
On 13-1-2019 23:33, David B. wrote: > On 13/01/2019 22:19, David B. wrote: > >> What would YOU recommend that I do to correct matters? >> > http://www.macoptions.com/contact.html > > Stop trolling. People might even,after some time,start assuming you are a member of humanity.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-13 18:10 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <0001HW.21EBFCCD00EE942270000E0672EF@news.supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #120513 |
On 13 Jan 2019, Sjouke Burry wrote (in article<5c3bc164$0$19309$e4fe514c@textnews.kpn.nl>): > On 13-1-2019 23:33, David B. wrote: > > On 13/01/2019 22:19, David B. wrote: > > > > > What would YOU recommend that I do to correct matters? > > http://www.macoptions.com/contact.html > Stop trolling. > > People might even,after some time,start assuming you are > a member of humanity. Highly unlikely.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-13 22:54 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <3lP_D.2058$0C.149@fx02.fr7> |
| In reply to | #120512 |
On 13/01/2019 22:33, David B. wrote: > On 13/01/2019 22:19, David B. wrote: > >> What would YOU recommend that I do to correct matters? >> > http://www.macoptions.com/contact.html NNTP-Posting-Host: PP0duTBt4u4Y4H9eLx52lw.user.gioia.aioe.org User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) That's not *ME* chief! :-P = Malware-ridden old web site? Nope - came out clean here:- https://www.virustotal.com/#/url/ea76f8e37712367d788e44665a28bebfee26609f9d3cd375d12a4356ffd5d726/detection But VERY out-of-date. :-( -- David B.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-13 23:05 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ga1uhbFugguU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #120511 |
On 2019-01-13, David B. <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> wrote: > On 13/01/2019 22:04, Jolly Roger wrote: >> On 2019-01-13, Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote: >>> On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 12:52:33 -0500, David B. wrote >>>> >>>> You may have witnessed this scene at work, while socializing with >>>> friends or over a holiday dinner with extended family: Someone who has >>>> very little knowledge in a subject claims to know a lot. That person >>>> might even boast about being an expert. >>>> >>>> (snip) >>>> >>>> Put simply, incompetent people think they know more than they really do, >>>> and they tend to be more boastful about it. >>>> >>> >>> You seem to know a lot about this. >> >> *mic drop* > >:-) Smile all you want. You show you think you know more than you do every time you post here. > *DO* you know why my iMac will not start in Safe Boot mode? User error. You're changing the subject, though. Don't make the mistake of thinking that isn't noticed. > What would YOU recommend that I do to correct matters? First, explain why you need to start up an safe mode. Next, explain how you have tried to boot in safe mode and how it has failed. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-13 23:23 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ALP_D.43680$hO1.24393@fx29.fr7> |
| In reply to | #120518 |
On 13/01/2019 23:05, Jolly Roger wrote: > On 2019-01-13, David B. <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> wrote: >> On 13/01/2019 22:04, Jolly Roger wrote: >>> On 2019-01-13, Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote: >>>> On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 12:52:33 -0500, David B. wrote >>>>> >>>>> You may have witnessed this scene at work, while socializing with >>>>> friends or over a holiday dinner with extended family: Someone who has >>>>> very little knowledge in a subject claims to know a lot. That person >>>>> might even boast about being an expert. >>>>> >>>>> (snip) >>>>> >>>>> Put simply, incompetent people think they know more than they really do, >>>>> and they tend to be more boastful about it. >>>>> >>>> >>>> You seem to know a lot about this. >>> >>> *mic drop* >> >> :-) > > Smile all you want. You show you think you know more than you do every > time you post here. I'm a USER, not a techie! >> *DO* you know why my iMac will not start in Safe Boot mode? > > User error. You're changing the subject, though. Don't make the mistake > of thinking that isn't noticed. I *expect* such things will be noticed! >> What would YOU recommend that I do to correct matters? > > First, explain why you need to start up an safe mode. To make sure everything is working as it should. It's a facility which DID work on my previous iMac and doesn't on this one. > Next, explain how you have tried to boot in safe mode and how it has > failed. *I already did*! http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=154742126500 I've been using macOS Mojave since September and discovered that I was/am unable to start my iMac in Safe Boot mode. Not only that - I couldn't update to macOS Mojave 10.14.1 either! Under my pseudonym of GA11, I asked for help in a thread I started here in the ASC forums:- https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8614965 That thread should provide some background if anyone here is willing to give me the benefit their advice. Three weeks ago I spent a number of hours talking to Apple Support staff in Portugal but they were unable to rectify matters and said they would report matters to the Apple engineers. It may help to know that I had started the machine in recovery mode (Command +R) erased Macintosh HD and reinstalled macOS Mojave from the Apple App store. The outcome was/is that I am now using 10.14.1 but am STILL unable to start my iMac in Safe Boot mode. Ideas will be appreciated. -- Regards, David B. I'm NOW using 10.14.2
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-13 18:27 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <130120191827228672%nospam@nospam.invalid> |
| In reply to | #120522 |
In article <ALP_D.43680$hO1.24393@fx29.fr7>, David B. < B"@nomail.afraid.org> wrote: > I've been using macOS Mojave since September and discovered that I was/am > unable to start my iMac in Safe Boot mode. that's good. the next step is so it's unable to start in any mode.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-13 23:32 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <xUP_D.5640$dm2.4855@fx22.fr7> |
| In reply to | #120523 |
On 13/01/2019 23:27, nospam wrote: > In article <ALP_D.43680$hO1.24393@fx29.fr7>, David B. < > B"@nomail.afraid.org> wrote: > >> I've been using macOS Mojave since September and discovered that I was/am >> unable to start my iMac in Safe Boot mode. > > that's good. the next step is so it's unable to start in any mode. For the particular attention of 'nospam' **************************************** You may have witnessed this scene at work, while socializing with friends or over a holiday dinner with extended family: Someone who has very little knowledge in a subject claims to know a lot. That person might even boast about being an expert. This phenomenon has a name: the Dunning-Kruger effect. It's not a disease, syndrome or mental illness; it is present in everybody to some extent, and it's been around as long as human cognition, though only recently has it been studied and documented in social psychology. In their 1999 paper, published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, David Dunning and Justin Kruger put data to what has been known by philosophers since Socrates, who supposedly said something along the lines of "the only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing." Charles Darwin followed that up in 1871 with "ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge." Put simply, incompetent people think they know more than they really do, and they tend to be more boastful about it. https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-why-incompetent-people-often-seem-so-confident? -- David B.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-14 02:12 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ga29h8F2c6dU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #120522 |
On 2019-01-13, David B. <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> wrote: > On 13/01/2019 23:05, Jolly Roger wrote: >> On 2019-01-13, David B. <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> wrote: >>> On 13/01/2019 22:04, Jolly Roger wrote: >>>> On 2019-01-13, Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote: >>>>> On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 12:52:33 -0500, David B. wrote >>>>>> >>>>>> You may have witnessed this scene at work, while socializing with >>>>>> friends or over a holiday dinner with extended family: Someone who has >>>>>> very little knowledge in a subject claims to know a lot. That person >>>>>> might even boast about being an expert. >>>>>> >>>>>> (snip) >>>>>> >>>>>> Put simply, incompetent people think they know more than they really do, >>>>>> and they tend to be more boastful about it. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> You seem to know a lot about this. >>>> >>>> *mic drop* >>> >>> :-) >> >> Smile all you want. You show you think you know more than you do every >> time you post here. > > I'm a USER, not a techie! You are the Dunning-Kruger effect exemplified. >>> *DO* you know why my iMac will not start in Safe Boot mode? >> >> User error. You're changing the subject, though. Don't make the mistake >> of thinking that isn't noticed. > > I *expect* such things will be noticed! Noticed and rejected. Stay on topic. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-14 07:46 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <R7X_D.77095$am2.3739@fx14.fr7> |
| In reply to | #120530 |
On 14/01/2019 02:12, Jolly Roger wrote: > On 2019-01-13, David B. <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> wrote: >> On 13/01/2019 23:05, Jolly Roger wrote: >>> On 2019-01-13, David B. <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> wrote: >>>> On 13/01/2019 22:04, Jolly Roger wrote: >>>>> On 2019-01-13, Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote: >>>>>> On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 12:52:33 -0500, David B. wrote >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You may have witnessed this scene at work, while socializing with >>>>>>> friends or over a holiday dinner with extended family: Someone who has >>>>>>> very little knowledge in a subject claims to know a lot. That person >>>>>>> might even boast about being an expert. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (snip) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Put simply, incompetent people think they know more than they really do, >>>>>>> and they tend to be more boastful about it. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> You seem to know a lot about this. >>>>> >>>>> *mic drop* >>>> >>>> :-) >>> >>> Smile all you want. You show you think you know more than you do every >>> time you post here. >> >> I'm a USER, not a techie! > > You are the Dunning-Kruger effect exemplified. Seems I'm a bit like YOU then! ;-) >>>> *DO* you know why my iMac will not start in Safe Boot mode? >>> >>> User error. You're changing the subject, though. Don't make the mistake >>> of thinking that isn't noticed. >> >> I *expect* such things will be noticed! > > Noticed and rejected. Stay on topic. It's OK for you not to know the answer. The Apple support staff don't know either! -- David B.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-14 17:10 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ga3u4uFdcn0U2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #120545 |
On 2019-01-14, David B. <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> wrote: > On 14/01/2019 02:12, Jolly Roger wrote: >> On 2019-01-13, David B. <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> wrote: >>> On 13/01/2019 23:05, Jolly Roger wrote: >>>> On 2019-01-13, David B. <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> wrote: >>>>> On 13/01/2019 22:04, Jolly Roger wrote: >>>>>> On 2019-01-13, Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote: >>>>>>> On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 12:52:33 -0500, David B. wrote >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You may have witnessed this scene at work, while socializing with >>>>>>>> friends or over a holiday dinner with extended family: Someone who has >>>>>>>> very little knowledge in a subject claims to know a lot. That person >>>>>>>> might even boast about being an expert. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (snip) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Put simply, incompetent people think they know more than they really do, >>>>>>>> and they tend to be more boastful about it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You seem to know a lot about this. >>>>>> >>>>>> *mic drop* >>>>> >>>>> :-) >>>> >>>> Smile all you want. You show you think you know more than you do every >>>> time you post here. >>> >>> I'm a USER, not a techie! >> >> You are the Dunning-Kruger effect exemplified. > > Seems I'm a bit like YOU then! ;-) Dream on. You're more like the other resident troll, "arden". >>>>> *DO* you know why my iMac will not start in Safe Boot mode? >>>> >>>> User error. You're changing the subject, though. Don't make the mistake >>>> of thinking that isn't noticed. >>> >>> I *expect* such things will be noticed! >> >> Noticed and rejected. Stay on topic. > > It's OK for you not to know the answer. The Apple support staff don't > know either! I've owned and worked with many, many Macs, and have *never* been unable to boot into single user mode. The problem you are having is almost certainly caused by user error. That Apple Support gave up on you could simply be due to your sheer ineptitude. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-14 12:57 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <140120191257036561%nospam@nospam.invalid> |
| In reply to | #120555 |
In article <ga3u4uFdcn0U2@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote: > >>>>> *DO* you know why my iMac will not start in Safe Boot mode? > >>>> > >>>> User error. You're changing the subject, though. Don't make the mistake > >>>> of thinking that isn't noticed. > >>> > >>> I *expect* such things will be noticed! > >> > >> Noticed and rejected. Stay on topic. > > > > It's OK for you not to know the answer. The Apple support staff don't > > know either! > > I've owned and worked with many, many Macs, and have *never* been unable > to boot into single user mode. The problem you are having is almost > certainly caused by user error. That Apple Support gave up on you could > simply be due to your sheer ineptitude. there's absolutely no question that it's user error.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-14 20:16 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <V66%D.96750$Mo2.24623@fx28.fr7> |
| In reply to | #120555 |
On 14/01/2019 17:10, Jolly Roger wrote: > On 2019-01-14, David B. <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> wrote: >> On 14/01/2019 02:12, Jolly Roger wrote: >>> On 2019-01-13, David B. <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> wrote: >>>> On 13/01/2019 23:05, Jolly Roger wrote: >>>>> On 2019-01-13, David B. <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> wrote: >>>>>> On 13/01/2019 22:04, Jolly Roger wrote: >>>>>>> On 2019-01-13, Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 12:52:33 -0500, David B. wrote >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You may have witnessed this scene at work, while socializing with >>>>>>>>> friends or over a holiday dinner with extended family: Someone who has >>>>>>>>> very little knowledge in a subject claims to know a lot. That person >>>>>>>>> might even boast about being an expert. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> (snip) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Put simply, incompetent people think they know more than they really do, >>>>>>>>> and they tend to be more boastful about it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You seem to know a lot about this. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *mic drop* >>>>>> >>>>>> :-) >>>>> >>>>> Smile all you want. You show you think you know more than you do every >>>>> time you post here. >>>> >>>> I'm a USER, not a techie! >>> >>> You are the Dunning-Kruger effect exemplified. >> >> Seems I'm a bit like YOU then! ;-) > > Dream on. You're more like the other resident troll, "arden". No, I'm not! ;-) >>>>>> *DO* you know why my iMac will not start in Safe Boot mode? >>>>> >>>>> User error. You're changing the subject, though. Don't make the mistake >>>>> of thinking that isn't noticed. >>>> >>>> I *expect* such things will be noticed! >>> >>> Noticed and rejected. Stay on topic. >> >> It's OK for you not to know the answer. The Apple support staff don't >> know either! > > I've owned and worked with many, many Macs, and have *never* been unable > to boot into single user mode. The problem you are having is almost > certainly caused by user error. That Apple Support gave up on you could > simply be due to your sheer ineptitude. Maybe you are right, but I've never TRIED to boot into "single user mode" as you describe. I've looked here ... http://osxdaily.com/2018/10/29/boot-single-user-mode-mac/ I didn't see a reference to starting whilst holding down the SHIFT key. Poster 'Paul' offers folk help and advice. I'd like you to do likewise. -- David B.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
Page 1 of 7 [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next page →
Back to top | Article view | comp.sys.mac.system
csiph-web