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Transferring iMac ownership/iTunes account/etc.?

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  Transferring iMac ownership/iTunes account/etc.? patty1@sonic.net (Patty Winter) - 2015-05-14 19:55 +0000
    Re: Transferring iMac ownership/iTunes account/etc.? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-05-14 16:22 -0400
      Re: Transferring iMac ownership/iTunes account/etc.? Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> - 2015-05-14 20:42 +0000
        Re: Transferring iMac ownership/iTunes account/etc.? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-05-15 01:11 -0400
      Re: Transferring iMac ownership/iTunes account/etc.? Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> - 2015-05-14 20:44 +0000
      Re: Transferring iMac ownership/iTunes account/etc.? Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 17:23 -0400
    Re: Transferring iMac ownership/iTunes account/etc.? Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2015-05-14 17:12 -0700
      Re: Transferring iMac ownership/iTunes account/etc.? Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> - 2015-05-15 16:56 +0000
        Re: Transferring iMac ownership/iTunes account/etc.? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-05-15 14:13 -0400
          Re: Transferring iMac ownership/iTunes account/etc.? John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2015-05-16 22:43 +0100
            Re: Transferring iMac ownership/iTunes account/etc.? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-05-16 19:17 -0400
        Re: Transferring iMac ownership/iTunes account/etc.? John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2015-05-16 22:33 +0100
    Re: Transferring iMac ownership/iTunes account/etc.? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-05-15 00:56 -0400
      Re: Transferring iMac ownership/iTunes account/etc.? John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2015-05-15 11:27 +0100
        Re: Transferring iMac ownership/iTunes account/etc.? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-05-15 16:39 +0000
          Re: Transferring iMac ownership/iTunes account/etc.? John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2015-05-16 22:31 +0100
    Re: Transferring iMac ownership/iTunes account/etc.? awoolmeyer@gmail.com - 2015-05-15 04:29 -0700
    Re: Transferring iMac ownership/iTunes account/etc.? Travis Bickle <3S96@taxi.net> - 2015-05-15 15:25 -0400
      Re: Transferring iMac ownership/iTunes account/etc.? John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2015-05-16 22:44 +0100
        Re: Transferring iMac ownership/iTunes account/etc.? George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2015-05-17 09:27 -0500
        Re: Transferring iMac ownership/iTunes account/etc.? Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> - 2015-05-17 15:53 +0000
          Re: Transferring iMac ownership/iTunes account/etc.? John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2015-05-18 03:41 +0100

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#75654 — Transferring iMac ownership/iTunes account/etc.?

I've just updated my will and trust and am now updating my letter
to my executors. I got to thinking that there might be some credit
in my iTunes account and also that I might own a computer that someone
else would like to use. (Unless technology has evolved away from both
by that time...)

Is there some way for an executor to transfer ownership of an iMac
to another person so that they'd be entitled to appropriate support
and updates? How about transferring an iTunes account?

I tried searching Apple Support for information on transferring
ownership of a computer or iTunes account, but I can't for the life
of me find the KnowledgeBase search function any more, and working
through one of the product trees on the Support site didn't work, either.


Patty

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#75660

In article <5554fdb6$0$36570$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
<patty1@sonic.net> wrote:

> 
> Is there some way for an executor to transfer ownership of an iMac
> to another person so that they'd be entitled to appropriate support
> and updates? 

that's no different than selling or gifting a mac. however, they may
need to reinstall apps.

> How about transferring an iTunes account?

nope.

<http://www.marketwatch.com/story/who-inherits-your-itunes-library-2012-
08-23>
  Many of us will accumulate vast libraries of digital books and music
  over the course of our lifetimes. But when we die, our collections of
  words and music may expire with us.
...
  Apple and Amazon.com grant ³nontransferable² rights to use content,
  so if you buy the complete works of the Beatles on iTunes, you cannot
  give the ³White Album² to your son and ³Abbey Road² to your daughter.

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#75664

In article <140520151622583908%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
nospam  <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>In article <5554fdb6$0$36570$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
><patty1@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> Is there some way for an executor to transfer ownership of an iMac
>> to another person so that they'd be entitled to appropriate support
>> and updates? 
>
>that's no different than selling or gifting a mac. 

And how does one prove new ownership in those situations?


>> How about transferring an iTunes account?
>
>nope.
>
><http://www.marketwatch.com/story/who-inherits-your-itunes-library-2012-
>08-23>

Okay, good thing I don't keep a lot of unused credit in my account.

As for the existing content, most of it is mine, not Apple's. I haven't
bought very much from the iTunes Store.


Patty

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#75683

In article <555508be$0$36586$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
<patty1@wintertime.com> wrote:

> >> Is there some way for an executor to transfer ownership of an iMac
> >> to another person so that they'd be entitled to appropriate support
> >> and updates? 
> >
> >that's no different than selling or gifting a mac. 
> 
> And how does one prove new ownership in those situations?

you don't need to prove anything.

the warranty is tied to the device. apple doesn't even ask for the
original buyer's name.

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#75665

In article <140520151622583908%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
nospam  <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>In article <5554fdb6$0$36570$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
><patty1@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> How about transferring an iTunes account?
>
>nope.
>
><http://www.marketwatch.com/story/who-inherits-your-itunes-library-2012-
>08-23>

On second thought, I don't see how Apple can claim ownership of my
iTunes Store credit. There must be a way for an executor to get that
back.


Patty

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#75673

In article <140520151622583908%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
 nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> Apple and Amazon.com grant “nontransferable” rights to use content,
>   so if you buy the complete works of the Beatles on iTunes, you cannot
>   give the “White Album” to your son and “Abbey Road” to your daughter.

They'll already have downloaded them from pIratz-r-uS. Fuck Apple and 
Amazon: make a digital copy and put it in a safe deposit box.
-- 
Where's the Vangelis music?
Pris' tongue is sticking out in in the wide shot after Batty has kissed her.
They have put back more tits into the Zhora dressing  room scene.
  -- notes for Blade Runner

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#75680

On 2015-05-14 19:55:34 +0000, Patty Winter said:

> I've just updated my will and trust and am now updating my letter
> to my executors. I got to thinking that there might be some credit
> in my iTunes account and also that I might own a computer that someone
> else would like to use. (Unless technology has evolved away from both
> by that time...)
> 
> Is there some way for an executor to transfer ownership of an iMac
> to another person so that they'd be entitled to appropriate support
> and updates? How about transferring an iTunes account?

Apple probably won't like this suggestion; The computer is personal 
property and an asset of your estate, to can bequeath it to any 
beneficary you desire. List your Apple ID as a separate asset (with the 
password secured by your executor) and name the beneficiary. The 
executor will have to suspend any linked credit card accounts so they 
can be settled.
When the executor distributes your assets after probate, the password 
will be passed on to the beneficiary with instructions to access the 
Apple account via your Apple ID & password, and enter new credit card 
information and make any appropriate changes to Apple ID, password and 
contact email. If the beneficiary already has an Apple ID, they should 
be advised to maintain two separate accounts and implement family 
sharing.
I believe that would work.

The other two issues are:
Are you planning on checking out soon?
...and is your iTunes account so loaded, and your iCloud photo library 
so filled with stuff of value to others?
Consider that you who actually values these things is going to be gone, 
and nothing that is done with any of your assets is going to change 
your situation in any way.

> I tried searching Apple Support for information on transferring
> ownership of a computer or iTunes account, but I can't for the life
> of me find the KnowledgeBase search function any more, and working
> through one of the product trees on the Support site didn't work, either.
> 
> 
> Patty


-- 
Regards,

Savageduck

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#75740

No probate, hardly any content in my iTunes account, very little
credit with iTunes Store, and I don't care who gets the iMac. I'll
make my Apple password available to the executor, but if they can't
retrieve the credit from Apple, it's no big deal.


Patty

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#75745

On 15-05-15 12:56, Patty Winter wrote:
> No probate, hardly any content in my iTunes account, very little
> credit with iTunes Store, and I don't care who gets the iMac. I'll
> make my Apple password available to the executor, but if they can't
> retrieve the credit from Apple, it's no big deal.


Consider Apple's move to the cloud. If the executor doesn't have your
password, your family won't have access to documents until/unless Apple
provides the executor with access.

Also, having copies of the music on your Mac helps sincethe files can be
moved to another computer running on a different iTunes account.
however, this music will not be registered with iTunes so you can'ts "re
download" it if it is lost etc.

Movies are DRM protected and I doubt they would be able to run on a
different iTunes account. (can anyone confirm ?)


What you could do in your will is provide the special questions/answers
used in case of a "I lost my password". This way, you don't have to
provide (and update) your actual password and executor can then go in
and proceed with "forgot my password" process to get new one and
retrieve music/apps.

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#75820

On Fri, 15 May 2015 14:13:34 -0400, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

>On 15-05-15 12:56, Patty Winter wrote:
>> No probate, hardly any content in my iTunes account, very little
>> credit with iTunes Store, and I don't care who gets the iMac. I'll
>> make my Apple password available to the executor, but if they can't
>> retrieve the credit from Apple, it's no big deal.
>
>
>Consider Apple's move to the cloud. If the executor doesn't have your
>password, your family won't have access to documents until/unless Apple
>provides the executor with access.

 Don't *TELL* *THEM*.
 Apple, I mean. Just let the inheritors inherit everything including
all online stuff. 
 So long as Apple are connected to a valid payment service, like the
beneficiary's CC-number, does it *matter* who is using the accounts? 
 It may not be kosher according to their TOS but who give a toss?
Apart from Apple?
 


>
>Also, having copies of the music on your Mac helps sincethe files can be
>moved to another computer running on a different iTunes account.
>however, this music will not be registered with iTunes so you can'ts "re
>download" it if it is lost etc.
>
>Movies are DRM protected and I doubt they would be able to run on a
>different iTunes account. (can anyone confirm ?)

 Depends on the movie. Good ones will be but real old ones may not.
 So just give the account intact to the heirs. Together with all
security questions and answers and the passwords. The heirs can then
change the credit card details and keep the account running, or not as
they wish.
 

>
>
>What you could do in your will is provide the special questions/answers
>used in case of a "I lost my password". This way, you don't have to
>provide (and update) your actual password and executor can then go in
>and proceed with "forgot my password" process to get new one and
>retrieve music/apps.

 Why bother? Just give the passwords (and security details as a back
up) to the heirs. 
 Leave a "PASSWORDS ARE HERE" plain text file on the desktop. Make it
very, very obvious.
 And remember to leave instructions in there about how to access
everything. Make those instructions very, very clear and simple using
tiny words.
 Remember, half of all humans are *below* average intelligence. If
you've ever seen an averagely intelligent person, that thought should
guide you in how you do these things.
 It should probably also terrify you.  :)
                                               J.  
>
>

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#75824

On 15-05-16 17:43, John wrote:

>  Apple, I mean. Just let the inheritors inherit everything including
> all online stuff. 
>  So long as Apple are connected to a valid payment service, like the
> beneficiary's CC-number, does it *matter* who is using the accounts? 
>  It may not be kosher according to their TOS but who give a toss?
> Apart from Apple?


It becomes harder to combine assets from 2 different Apple accounts onto
the same machine. You may need to separate user IDs on the Mac in orde
rto use different iTunes accounts (especially for cloud stuff) or be
bothered with constantly changing iTunes accounts on the one Mac/account.


If Apple is not cooperative with inheritances, then yes, just leave
inheritors with password and let them pickup any assets (music, apps)
that they like and then close account.

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#75819

On 15 May 2015 16:56:08 GMT, Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com>
wrote:

>
>No probate, hardly any content in my iTunes account, very little
>credit with iTunes Store, and I don't care who gets the iMac. I'll
>make my Apple password available to the executor, but if they can't
>retrieve the credit from Apple, it's no big deal.

 Leave a file on the Mac called "THESE ARE MY ACCOUNTS AND PASSWORDS"
and tell everyone who may take it that it's there. 

 Then, as a last humorous gesture, fill it full of Blonde jokes.

 Yes, I do have a small evil streak. :)
                                          J. 

>
>
>Patty

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#75682

On 15-05-14 15:55, Patty Winter wrote:
> I've just updated my will and trust and am now updating my letter
> to my executors. 

I have read a number of articles in the last few years about this issue
and *apparently* Apple is not too cooperative in such cases.

You may wish to call Apple to find out what their exact policy is on the
matter.

You have 2 issues:
1- getting Apple to release/change the iTunes accont password so
inheritor can use it.

2- transfering your iTunes store assets (music, movies, apps) to the
inheritor's own iTunes account.

Remember that for "proper" processing, the executor would have to send a
certified copy of the will and death certificate to Apple so it can
proceeed with the transfer, and it isn't clear that Apple would have
such departments in your country that does that.

You can't just call up and tell Apple your mother died and left you her
music and movies, please change her iTunes password to "12345".

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#75699

On Fri, 15 May 2015 00:56:32 -0400, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

>On 15-05-14 15:55, Patty Winter wrote:
>> I've just updated my will and trust and am now updating my letter
>> to my executors. 
>
>I have read a number of articles in the last few years about this issue
>and *apparently* Apple is not too cooperative in such cases.
>
>You may wish to call Apple to find out what their exact policy is on the
>matter.
>
>You have 2 issues:
>1- getting Apple to release/change the iTunes accont password so
>inheritor can use it.

 When my wife died of inoperable brain tumours, I just continued to
use anything of hers that I wanted and binned the rest. I was the tech
support, I set up her security so I could basically do whatever I
liked and to hell with the companies.
 I did have a go at looking into their policies for dealing with
expired clients but those usually amounted to "fucking tough. We own
everything, you own nothing. We may grant a minimum of temporary usage
rights that we can revoke any time we like but we may also not." so
fuck the lot of them.
 I didn't tell anyone I didn't have to until I had done whatever I
liked with her stuff.
 Her email accounts I just keep running as I don't really want anyone
else re-using them. That would be creepy. 
 
 

>
>2- transfering your iTunes store assets (music, movies, apps) to the
>inheritor's own iTunes account.

 Just teach the inheritors how to take them. The companies make it so
fucking difficult to transfer anything that it's their own damned
fault if we breach their EULAs to give things to people once we're
finished with them.
 If they had an easy way to give digital books to charities or
relatives we wouldn't need to strip the DRM from them. They don't so
we do.
 So fuck them.  

>
>Remember that for "proper" processing, the executor would have to send a
>certified copy of the will and death certificate to Apple so it can
>proceeed with the transfer, and it isn't clear that Apple would have
>such departments in your country that does that.

 It's unlikely in UKland, for example, as they try to avoid paying
taxes here so they don't really have a presence. Apple Eire may be
able to help, or not, depending on the legal mess between the
countries.
 This is yet another reason why one world, one government would be
such a *fantastic* idea. 
 It's never going to happen but imagine the saving in legal shite,
currency conversions and regionalised restrictions if it ever did.
 Imagine the vast numbers of unemployable tax lawyers. 
 

>
>You can't just call up and tell Apple your mother died and left you her
>music and movies, please change her iTunes password to "12345".

 No, but if *you* set up Mum's password, as many of us do, then you
can just change it and run her account forever without telling the
gits at Apple anything about her existential status.
 Just move the stuff onto your boxes and have two, or more accounts.
 And, when *you* go, if you ever do, let some other inheritor simply
take *your* account *and* Mum's. Eventually this will result in one
person having thousands of accounts of ghosts but, so long as there's
a valid method of payment attached to each, the companies won't give a
toss.
 If you are given grace time before expiring, if you come down with
something terminal and short (as I did when I was 15 and told I'd
never see 21), you could even help the inheritor take your online
goodies and never tell *anyone*.
 If the companies are going to make life bloody impossible for us then
we should not feel ourselves to be obliged to be gracious with them.
In short, fuck them all.

 
 When my wife died, I managed to cancel and kill just about everything
financial that she had apart from one set of bank accounts. A current
account and associated Saver and ISA. These accounts, with a company I
would never name and shame (the fucking HALIFAX) (did I mention it was
the fucking *HALIFAX*?) (oh, sorry, I think I let it slip that I'm
talking about the HALIFAX, I can't believe I did that accidentally),
had balances of zero - because I set up her online access, knew her
login details and emptied them into *my* accounts before I went to her
bank. So I tried to close them. This unnamed bank, which was the
HALIFAX but I'm not mentioning the name, would not let me close the
accounts. 
 Why not?
 Well, I had her death certificate, a note from the Regstrar saying
she was legally dead and all the other neat stuff but what I lacked
was photo-id of *ME*.
 I did have her login details, memorised as I usually do with those
sorts of things, and her vital information. I also had knowledge of
the last couple of transactions as I had done them. And, as said, I
had all of *her* I.D. shit.
 But, without a driving licence or passport I was not permitted by the
local branch or Supreme HQ to close her account.
 I recently got a hard-copy letter through the post detailing the
interest paid on her zero balance in her tax-free ISA account. This is
the fourth since she died.
 So, every so often, just to bugger them about, I logon to the
accounts, fiddle about a bit and log out. 
 If they aren't going to allow me the simple courtesy of believing I
am who I say I am, fuck them. 
 What gets to me is that there can not be any suspicion of fraud in my
request to close those accounts even if I were *NOT* *ME*. How the
fuck can closing them *harm* anyone? No one at the local branch nor at
the Pantheon could ever answer that rationally. "It's company policy"
is the best I ever got.
 Well, Namelss Company (Halifax Bank, though I won't mention the
name), CHANGE THE FUCKING POLICY.
 They won't, of course. I don't bank there, and I'm not worth many
millions, nor do I influence others who are. So they can "It's company
policy" me forever.
 Okay, fine, my policy is to bugger them about.
 Them (a nameless company that runs a Bank, called Halifax Bank but
I'm never going to mention the name) and all the arseholes who think
their DRM is worth more than my time.
 I would, of course, never mention my extremely poor experience with
that nameless bank (Halifax) because I don't want to give the
impression that they (Halifax Bank) are a pack of unfeeling, uncaring,
ruthless, inhuman zombies with all the compassion of a rotted bag of
fertiliser as such a description just possibly may influence someone
looking for a new bank and I really, really wouldn't want to hurt the
commercial interests of that nameless institution (the Halifax) by
besmirching its reputation. It's not *my* business if anyone wants to
dealt with a pack of nameless heartless bastards at that nameless
(Halifax) bank. It is entirely up to you with whom you bank.
 I will say that Barclays bank were far more compassionate and their
staff even offered condolences. I was finished with them inside of
five minutes, without photo-id. Not that that should influence your
choice of bank, either. 
 My point in this little story about a nameless bank (which I will
never tell you was the Halifax, though it was) is that I *TRIED* to do
the RighThing(TM). I went to good lengths to do the right thing and
they would not let me. It's the same with other companies. They are
happy to take personal information and cash from the breathing but
they are fucking piss-poor about dealing with those who no longer need
to. 
 So we should just work around them. Before telling them about a
death, empty all accounts, set up re-directs for emails, download
everything on FaceTwit and LnkdIn. Move the Apple and Amazon accounts
to the surviving family's computers. 
 If they won't let us inherit, just *take* it.
 *THEN* tell them. If you ever feel like it.
 If they want to play silly buggers ...
                                                 J. 
  
 
 
  
 
 

>
>
>

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#75738

On 2015-05-15, John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

>  When my wife died of inoperable brain tumours, 

Don't beat around the bush - tell us what you *really* think.

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#75818

On 15 May 2015 16:39:33 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

>On 2015-05-15, John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>
>>  When my wife died of inoperable brain tumours, 
>
>Don't beat around the bush - tell us what you *really* think.

 
 About what? 
 I *think* I might have a burger in a bun and a cup of tea in a few
minutes.
 I also think my back aches a bit.
 No. That's not a "think" it's a definite ouchy.
                                                 J. 
 

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#75700

On Thursday, May 14, 2015 at 4:05:04 PM UTC-4, Patty Winter wrote:
> I've just updated my will and trust and am now updating my letter
> to my executors. I got to thinking that there might be some credit
> in my iTunes account and also that I might own a computer that someone
> else would like to use. (Unless technology has evolved away from both
> by that time...)
> 
> Is there some way for an executor to transfer ownership of an iMac
> to another person so that they'd be entitled to appropriate support
> and updates? How about transferring an iTunes account?
> 
> I tried searching Apple Support for information on transferring
> ownership of a computer or iTunes account, but I can't for the life
> of me find the KnowledgeBase search function any more, and working
> through one of the product trees on the Support site didn't work, either.
> 
> 
> Patty

Obsess much?

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#75755

On 5/14/15 3:55 PM, Patty Winter wrote:
> I've just updated my will and trust and am now updating my letter
> to my executors. I got to thinking that there might be some credit
> in my iTunes account and also that I might own a computer that someone
> else would like to use. (Unless technology has evolved away from both
> by that time...)
>
> Is there some way for an executor to transfer ownership of an iMac
> to another person so that they'd be entitled to appropriate support
> and updates? How about transferring an iTunes account?
>
> I tried searching Apple Support for information on transferring
> ownership of a computer or iTunes account, but I can't for the life
> of me find the KnowledgeBase search function any more, and working
> through one of the product trees on the Support site didn't work, either.
>
>
> Patty
>

Ya' got way too much time on your hands, girl...

-- 
Everyone brings joy to my life. Some when they enter it and some when 
they leave it.

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#75821

On Fri, 15 May 2015 15:25:56 -0400, Travis Bickle <3S96@taxi.net>
wrote:

>On 5/14/15 3:55 PM, Patty Winter wrote:
>> I've just updated my will and trust and am now updating my letter
>> to my executors. I got to thinking that there might be some credit
>> in my iTunes account and also that I might own a computer that someone
>> else would like to use. (Unless technology has evolved away from both
>> by that time...)
>>
>> Is there some way for an executor to transfer ownership of an iMac
>> to another person so that they'd be entitled to appropriate support
>> and updates? How about transferring an iTunes account?
>>
>> I tried searching Apple Support for information on transferring
>> ownership of a computer or iTunes account, but I can't for the life
>> of me find the KnowledgeBase search function any more, and working
>> through one of the product trees on the Support site didn't work, either.
>>
>>
>> Patty
>>
>
>Ya' got way too much time on your hands, girl...

 Or, if she's thinking about stuff like this, nowhere near enough.
 I truly, deeply hope that is *not* the case.
                                             J. 

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#75833

On 5/16/15 4:44 PM, in article egeflahtr31eqvf8h19k389fmash0j1vph@4ax.com,
"John" <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

> On Fri, 15 May 2015 15:25:56 -0400, Travis Bickle <3S96@taxi.net>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 5/14/15 3:55 PM, Patty Winter wrote:
>>> I've just updated my will and trust and am now updating my letter
>>> to my executors. I got to thinking that there might be some credit
>>> in my iTunes account and also that I might own a computer that someone
>>> else would like to use. (Unless technology has evolved away from both
>>> by that time...)
>>> 
>>> Is there some way for an executor to transfer ownership of an iMac
>>> to another person so that they'd be entitled to appropriate support
>>> and updates? How about transferring an iTunes account?
>>> 
>>> I tried searching Apple Support for information on transferring
>>> ownership of a computer or iTunes account, but I can't for the life
>>> of me find the KnowledgeBase search function any more, and working
>>> through one of the product trees on the Support site didn't work, either.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Patty
>>> 
>> 
>> Ya' got way too much time on your hands, girl...
> 
>  Or, if she's thinking about stuff like this, nowhere near enough.
>  I truly, deeply hope that is *not* the case.
>                                              J.

Some folks open their mouths and blather before they engage the grey matter.

If they have any, that is...

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