Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #73487 > unrolled thread

How do mac users create a blank text file where you want it?

Started by	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
First post	2015-04-20 00:40 +0000
Last post	2015-04-22 09:09 -0700
Articles	20 on this page of 379 — 28 participants

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#73908

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-04-22 18:56 +0000
Message-ID	<cpq968FnpkU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#73899

On 2015-04-22, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <cpq4egFt5tjU6@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
><jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> > But Save_As should give you the option to save as text (stripping all
>> > formatting). I think earlier versions of textedit had that option.
>> 
>> No. Allowing the loss of data during the action of *saving* the document
>> is bad design.
>
> it's the user's choice. warn the user, and if they confirm, then that's
> what they wanted to do.

Sure, I have no problem with that.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#73902

From	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date	2015-04-22 13:53 -0400
Message-ID	<5537e009$0$4730$b1db1813$46decd27@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to	#73896

On 15-04-22 13:35, Jolly Roger wrote:

> No. Allowing the loss of data during the action of *saving* the document
> is bad design. 

"All formating will be lost, agree ?" Dialogue does the trick.

The idea here is to make your own workflow more efficient.

If you want to see what stripping of formating will look like before
saving, then you change it in the editor. But if you don't care, you
should be allowed to SAVE AS and have formatting stripped quickly for
you (and leave the document in rich text so you can continue to edit etc)

Adding abilities to SAVE AS does not make the application worse. It adds
finctionality that some people need.

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#73910

From	jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date	2015-04-23 07:10 +1200
Message-ID	<1m3bkuu.1h2gjembauipgN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to	#73902

JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> On 15-04-22 13:35, Jolly Roger wrote:
> 
> > No. Allowing the loss of data during the action of *saving* the document
> > is bad design. 
> 
> 
> "All formating will be lost, agree ?" Dialogue does the trick.
> 
> The idea here is to make your own workflow more efficient.
> 
> If you want to see what stripping of formating will look like before
> saving, then you change it in the editor. But if you don't care, you
> should be allowed to SAVE AS and have formatting stripped quickly for
> you (and leave the document in rich text so you can continue to edit etc)
> 
> 
> Adding abilities to SAVE AS does not make the application worse. It adds
> finctionality that some people need.

But what if I want to work with just plain text? Isn't it a bit odd in a
text editor - even a text editor/lightweight word processor - to have to
save into plain text just to be able to work in purely plain text (or
vice versa if one starts in plain text and wants to shift to rich text)?
Ok, maybe have a Save As plain text available regardless, but I do think
Apple's design choices in TextEdit have merit, and certainly don't lack
functionality just because of the way RTF<->Plain Text is handled.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#73911

From	jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date	2015-04-23 07:09 +1200
Message-ID	<1m3bkop.q7q7rrfsa7fxN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to	#73894

JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> On 15-04-22 13:11, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
> 
> > Plus given the switch between RTF and plain text changes formatting
> > options available, as well as save options, it only makes sense to have
> > it be a menu option, instead of a 'Save As…' dialog option.
> 
> 
> But Save_As should give you the option to save as text (stripping all
> formatting). I think earlier versions of textedit had that option.

I've always though a Save As option that radically alters formatting and
content (in the case of plain text - completely stripping it and any
other embedded media out) is worthy of some kind of distinction, and
TextEdit handles that well IMO.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#73931

From	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date	2015-04-22 16:53 -0400
Message-ID	<55380a42$0$1606$c3e8da3$12bcf670@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to	#73911

On 15-04-22 15:09, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:

> I've always though a Save As option that radically alters formatting and
> content (in the case of plain text - completely stripping it and any
> other embedded media out) is worthy of some kind of distinction, and
> TextEdit handles that well IMO.

Photoshop allows you to "SAVE AS" in a variety of formats, some of which
have lossy conpression, some which don't. In some cases, an extra dialog
pops up to choose options especially when it comes to losing photosop
information such as layers, or reducing colour schemes (GIF).

So, if you write a document in rich text, and choose SAVE AS, and
specify ASCII/TEXT as output, and get dialog to confirmn loss of
formatting, this is perfectly acceptable.

One of the reasons GUI caught on is that they offered fairly consistent
user interfaces that allows one used to survive across different
platforms such as Mac, X windows, Windows. "Save As" is part of an
industry standard for GUIs, and apple tried to do away with it,
replacing it with "Duplicate".

So when Apple strays from standard GUI interfaces, it is normal to
expect weird questiosn from people who come from other platforms. And
ironic that Apple is now the one whose user interface has become the
less intuitive one because it has strayed from standards.

Next, Jony Ive redesigns the keyboard with the rerturn key on the left
because it looks better that way ?

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#73943

From	jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date	2015-04-23 10:42 +1200
Message-ID	<1m3bufj.t5iclf1qrh4u1N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to	#73931

JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> On 15-04-22 15:09, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
> 
> > I've always though a Save As option that radically alters formatting and
> > content (in the case of plain text - completely stripping it and any
> > other embedded media out) is worthy of some kind of distinction, and
> > TextEdit handles that well IMO.
> 
> Photoshop allows you to "SAVE AS" in a variety of formats, some of which
> have lossy conpression, some which don't. In some cases, an extra dialog
> pops up to choose options especially when it comes to losing photosop
> information such as layers, or reducing colour schemes (GIF).
> 
> So, if you write a document in rich text, and choose SAVE AS, and
> specify ASCII/TEXT as output, and get dialog to confirmn loss of
> formatting, this is perfectly acceptable.
> 
> One of the reasons GUI caught on is that they offered fairly consistent
> user interfaces that allows one used to survive across different
> platforms such as Mac, X windows, Windows. "Save As" is part of an
> industry standard for GUIs, and apple tried to do away with it,
> replacing it with "Duplicate".
> 
> So when Apple strays from standard GUI interfaces, it is normal to
> expect weird questiosn from people who come from other platforms. And
> ironic that Apple is now the one whose user interface has become the
> less intuitive one because it has strayed from standards.
> 
> Next, Jony Ive redesigns the keyboard with the rerturn key on the left
> because it looks better that way ?

I'm all for consistent UI. That's why I still far prefer the classic
MacOS GUI to OS X's. Especially System 6 - which I consider the high
water point in intuitive, simple, clean, friendly GUI.

But that doesn't mean what has been done is always the best choice.
TextEdit is a bit of an odd duck - both plain text editor and rich text
word processor. Given that, it only makes sense to me to handle things a
bit differently.

Honestly - I'm not sure how anyone can fail to comprehend TextEdit. I
mean there is only a tiny number of menus and preferences, and any user
with a bit of sense will just try a few things on a test document to see
what they do, if they're truly stumped. Plus TextEdit's help clearly
explains the basics such as switching formats.

So in order to be as clueless as Alan, one must:
a) Not look through the menus and preferences, of which there are only a
few.
b) Not try anything to see what happens, and there is very little to
try.
c) Not read the help file available right there from the Help menu.

I also note Alan seemed to think in several posts that changing the file
extension would change the file type. This makes it even harder for me
to believe he's even an experienced Unix user, as he claims.

-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#73945

From	Alan Baker <email@domain.com>
Date	2015-04-22 15:52 -0700
Message-ID	<mh98nn$vmu$2@news.datemas.de>
In reply to	#73943

On 2015-04-22 22:42:31 +0000, Jamie Kahn Genet said:

> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> 
>> On 15-04-22 15:09, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
>> 
>>> I've always though a Save As option that radically alters formatting and
>>> content (in the case of plain text - completely stripping it and any
>>> other embedded media out) is worthy of some kind of distinction, and
>>> TextEdit handles that well IMO.
>> 
>> Photoshop allows you to "SAVE AS" in a variety of formats, some of which
>> have lossy conpression, some which don't. In some cases, an extra dialog
>> pops up to choose options especially when it comes to losing photosop
>> information such as layers, or reducing colour schemes (GIF).
>> 
>> So, if you write a document in rich text, and choose SAVE AS, and
>> specify ASCII/TEXT as output, and get dialog to confirmn loss of
>> formatting, this is perfectly acceptable.
>> 
>> One of the reasons GUI caught on is that they offered fairly consistent
>> user interfaces that allows one used to survive across different
>> platforms such as Mac, X windows, Windows. "Save As" is part of an
>> industry standard for GUIs, and apple tried to do away with it,
>> replacing it with "Duplicate".
>> 
>> So when Apple strays from standard GUI interfaces, it is normal to
>> expect weird questiosn from people who come from other platforms. And
>> ironic that Apple is now the one whose user interface has become the
>> less intuitive one because it has strayed from standards.
>> 
>> Next, Jony Ive redesigns the keyboard with the rerturn key on the left
>> because it looks better that way ?
> 
> I'm all for consistent UI. That's why I still far prefer the classic
> MacOS GUI to OS X's. Especially System 6 - which I consider the high
> water point in intuitive, simple, clean, friendly GUI.
> 
> But that doesn't mean what has been done is always the best choice.
> TextEdit is a bit of an odd duck - both plain text editor and rich text
> word processor. Given that, it only makes sense to me to handle things a
> bit differently.
> 
> Honestly - I'm not sure how anyone can fail to comprehend TextEdit. I
> mean there is only a tiny number of menus and preferences, and any user
> with a bit of sense will just try a few things on a test document to see
> what they do, if they're truly stumped. Plus TextEdit's help clearly
> explains the basics such as switching formats.
> 
> So in order to be as clueless as Alan, one must:
> a) Not look through the menus and preferences, of which there are only a
> few.
> b) Not try anything to see what happens, and there is very little to
> try.
> c) Not read the help file available right there from the Help menu.
> 
> I also note Alan seemed to think in several posts that changing the file
> extension would change the file type. This makes it even harder for me
> to believe he's even an experienced Unix user, as he claims.

Please...

"Adam", not "Alan"

:-)

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#73949

From	jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date	2015-04-23 11:03 +1200
Message-ID	<1m3bw1e.1gsvx8vvegvxvN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to	#73945

Alan Baker <email@domain.com> wrote:

> On 2015-04-22 22:42:31 +0000, Jamie Kahn Genet said:
> 
> > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> > 
> >> On 15-04-22 15:09, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
> >> 
> >>> I've always though a Save As option that radically alters formatting and
> >>> content (in the case of plain text - completely stripping it and any
> >>> other embedded media out) is worthy of some kind of distinction, and
> >>> TextEdit handles that well IMO.
> >> 
> >> Photoshop allows you to "SAVE AS" in a variety of formats, some of which
> >> have lossy conpression, some which don't. In some cases, an extra dialog
> >> pops up to choose options especially when it comes to losing photosop
> >> information such as layers, or reducing colour schemes (GIF).
> >> 
> >> So, if you write a document in rich text, and choose SAVE AS, and
> >> specify ASCII/TEXT as output, and get dialog to confirmn loss of
> >> formatting, this is perfectly acceptable.
> >> 
> >> One of the reasons GUI caught on is that they offered fairly consistent
> >> user interfaces that allows one used to survive across different
> >> platforms such as Mac, X windows, Windows. "Save As" is part of an
> >> industry standard for GUIs, and apple tried to do away with it,
> >> replacing it with "Duplicate".
> >> 
> >> So when Apple strays from standard GUI interfaces, it is normal to
> >> expect weird questiosn from people who come from other platforms. And
> >> ironic that Apple is now the one whose user interface has become the
> >> less intuitive one because it has strayed from standards.
> >> 
> >> Next, Jony Ive redesigns the keyboard with the rerturn key on the left
> >> because it looks better that way ?
> > 
> > I'm all for consistent UI. That's why I still far prefer the classic
> > MacOS GUI to OS X's. Especially System 6 - which I consider the high
> > water point in intuitive, simple, clean, friendly GUI.
> > 
> > But that doesn't mean what has been done is always the best choice.
> > TextEdit is a bit of an odd duck - both plain text editor and rich text
> > word processor. Given that, it only makes sense to me to handle things a
> > bit differently.
> > 
> > Honestly - I'm not sure how anyone can fail to comprehend TextEdit. I
> > mean there is only a tiny number of menus and preferences, and any user
> > with a bit of sense will just try a few things on a test document to see
> > what they do, if they're truly stumped. Plus TextEdit's help clearly
> > explains the basics such as switching formats.
> > 
> > So in order to be as clueless as Alan, one must:
> > a) Not look through the menus and preferences, of which there are only a
> > few.
> > b) Not try anything to see what happens, and there is very little to
> > try.
> > c) Not read the help file available right there from the Help menu.
> > 
> > I also note Alan seemed to think in several posts that changing the file
> > extension would change the file type. This makes it even harder for me
> > to believe he's even an experienced Unix user, as he claims.
> 
> Please...
> 
> "Adam", not "Alan"
> 
> :-)

Was it? Sorry mate. His stupidity is already fading into the mists of
the past :-)
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#73950

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-04-22 23:35 +0000
Message-ID	<cpqpi2F3ijcU5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#73949

On 2015-04-22, Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> Alan Baker <email@domain.com> wrote:
>
>> Please...
>> 
>> "Adam", not "Alan"
>> 
>> :-)
>
> Was it? Sorry mate. His stupidity is already fading into the mists of
> the past :-)

I knew who you meant, if it's any consolation. : D

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#73957

From	jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date	2015-04-23 12:50 +1200
Message-ID	<1m3c0uq.odgdvqyf2a1mN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to	#73950

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2015-04-22, Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> > Alan Baker <email@domain.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Please...
> >> 
> >> "Adam", not "Alan"
> >> 
> >> :-)
> >
> > Was it? Sorry mate. His stupidity is already fading into the mists of
> > the past :-)
> 
> I knew who you meant, if it's any consolation. : D

Maybe I could just start calling all trolls 'Fuckface'? The last troll
who differentiated himself was that fundamentalist fanatic - John
someone or other. The rest just blend into... one big Fuckface.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#73952

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-04-22 23:33 +0000
Message-ID	<cpqpeiF3ijcU4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#73943

On 2015-04-22, Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
>
> So in order to be as clueless as Alan, one must:
> a) Not look through the menus and preferences, of which there are only a
> few.
> b) Not try anything to see what happens, and there is very little to
> try.
> c) Not read the help file available right there from the Help menu.
>
> I also note Alan seemed to think in several posts that changing the file
> extension would change the file type. This makes it even harder for me
> to believe he's even an experienced Unix user, as he claims.

He also claims to be a teacher.

I doubt every single word of it.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#73939

From	dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com>
Date	2015-04-23 07:36 +1000
Message-ID	<do_ray_me-F8F360.07364923042015@aioe.org>
In reply to	#73911

In article <1m3bkop.q7q7rrfsa7fxN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
 jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:

> I've always though a Save As option that radically alters formatting and

...

I think of Save AS... mostly as a good way of saving a copy, albeit 
modified to some extent in its content, under a different name or to 
another folder. But there is no harm, and plenty of good in various 
apps, to add extra functionalities when this is chosen, such as 
formatting or type of file. In QT7, for example, if you Save AS..., 
you get options to save as a self-contained movie, a reference one, 
and there is the standard button for a new folder. In Illustrator for 
Mac, not Apple admittedly, they change some things in this regard from 
version to version, I used to have to 'export' to get some things done 
which I now just use Save As. 

Different apps do slightly different things, there is probably a lot 
of inconsistency and you have to just learn the options. That's how it 
is. No use insisting there is always a right set of options.

-- 
dorayme

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#73940

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-04-22 22:00 +0000
Message-ID	<cpqjv2F3ijcU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#73911

On 2015-04-22, Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 15-04-22 13:11, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
>> 
>> > Plus given the switch between RTF and plain text changes formatting
>> > options available, as well as save options, it only makes sense to have
>> > it be a menu option, instead of a 'Save As…' dialog option.
>> 
>> 
>> But Save_As should give you the option to save as text (stripping all
>> formatting). I think earlier versions of textedit had that option.
>
> I've always though a Save As option that radically alters formatting and
> content (in the case of plain text - completely stripping it and any
> other embedded media out) is worthy of some kind of distinction, and
> TextEdit handles that well IMO.

I like the way that some applications put that kind of functionality in
the Export command.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#73946

From	jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date	2015-04-23 10:55 +1200
Message-ID	<1m3bv38.18wnolllz4mu6N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to	#73940

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2015-04-22, Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> On 15-04-22 13:11, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
> >> 
> >> > Plus given the switch between RTF and plain text changes formatting
> >> > options available, as well as save options, it only makes sense to have
> >> > it be a menu option, instead of a 'Save As…' dialog option.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> But Save_As should give you the option to save as text (stripping all
> >> formatting). I think earlier versions of textedit had that option.
> >
> > I've always though a Save As option that radically alters formatting and
> > content (in the case of plain text - completely stripping it and any
> > other embedded media out) is worthy of some kind of distinction, and
> > TextEdit handles that well IMO.
> 
> I like the way that some applications put that kind of functionality in
> the Export command.

I'm indifferent to breaking out exporting into it's own dialog. I guess
there's no harm, but I was fine with Save As and then picking a file
type :-) Maybe that's just what I'm used to.

Still, TextEdit is a special case as it makes little sense within it's
context of a simple plain text editor/rich text word processor, to make
the user save to swap between plain text and RTF, or to force the user
to pick one type when creating a new document. It's just easier,
simpler, and more useful to be able to swap on the fly.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#73951

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-04-22 23:36 +0000
Message-ID	<cpqpklF3ijcU6@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#73946

On 2015-04-22, Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
>
> Still, TextEdit is a special case as it makes little sense within it's
> context of a simple plain text editor/rich text word processor, to make
> the user save to swap between plain text and RTF, or to force the user
> to pick one type when creating a new document. It's just easier,
> simpler, and more useful to be able to swap on the fly.

Yep, if you treat the application like an application rather than your
mommy. : D

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#73962

From	Crosby Livingston <crosbylivingston44584@verizon.net>
Date	2015-04-22 22:52 -0500
Message-ID	<ae97e$55386c8f$43da7656$10393@nntpswitch.blueworldhosting.com>
In reply to	#73940

On Wed, 22 Apr 2015 22:00:02 +0000, Jolly Roger wrote:

> I like the way that some applications put that kind of functionality in
> the Export command.

Gimp has an export to another format which then asks, when you kill Gimp
if you wanted to save the original format also.

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#73936

From	Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date	2015-04-23 09:18 +1200
Message-ID	<230420150918589098%YourName@YourISP.com>
In reply to	#73894

In article <5537d993$0$64023$b1db1813$2411a48f@news.astraweb.com>, JF
Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 15-04-22 13:11, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
> >
> > Plus given the switch between RTF and plain text changes formatting
> > options available, as well as save options, it only makes sense to have
> > it be a menu option, instead of a 'Save AsŠ' dialog option.
> 
> But Save_As should give you the option to save as text (stripping all
> formatting). I think earlier versions of textedit had that option.

TextEdit 1.2 under Mac OS X 10.2.8 doesn't have any options in the Save
As dialog when using a Rich Text document. When using a Plain Text
document you do get various encoding options.

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#73897

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-04-22 17:32 +0000
Message-ID	<cpq4aaFt5tjU5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#73892

On 2015-04-22, Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>
>> In article <alpine.OSX.2.20.1504221037270.31550@mako.ath.cx>, David
>> Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> 
>> >As it happens, I agree with Adam, that the way TextEdit works isn't as
>> >intuitive as having the option of saving a file, in whatever format 
>> >one desires, directly from the Save dialog.
>> 
>> A trivially unimportant difference. Most people would either figure it
>> out for themselves, or have understood it in short order after a few
>> posts. As it was "Adam" is either terminally thick, or was being
>> deliberately obtuse with a view to trolling, or is Harry Worth.
>
> Plus given the switch between RTF and plain text changes formatting
> options available, as well as save options, it only makes sense to have
> it be a menu option, instead of a 'Save As…' dialog option.

Absolutely. Loss of data is something that should be respected in the
design. Converting a rich text document containing images, styling, and
so on to a plain text document removes those things which may be
important to users. Doing that *while* saving the document isn't a good
user experience.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#73909

From	jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date	2015-04-23 07:10 +1200
Message-ID	<1m3bl37.1wclsf11kd5jmdN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to	#73897

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2015-04-22, Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> > Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
> >
> >> In article <alpine.OSX.2.20.1504221037270.31550@mako.ath.cx>, David
> >> Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >> >As it happens, I agree with Adam, that the way TextEdit works isn't as
> >> >intuitive as having the option of saving a file, in whatever format
> >> >one desires, directly from the Save dialog.
> >> 
> >> A trivially unimportant difference. Most people would either figure it
> >> out for themselves, or have understood it in short order after a few
> >> posts. As it was "Adam" is either terminally thick, or was being
> >> deliberately obtuse with a view to trolling, or is Harry Worth.
> >
> > Plus given the switch between RTF and plain text changes formatting
> > options available, as well as save options, it only makes sense to have
> > it be a menu option, instead of a 'Save As…' dialog option.
> 
> Absolutely. Loss of data is something that should be respected in the
> design. Converting a rich text document containing images, styling, and
> so on to a plain text document removes those things which may be
> important to users. Doing that *while* saving the document isn't a good
> user experience.

Aye. Plus it makes no sense to me in a text editor/lightweight word
processor to have to Save As in order to switch between plain text and
RTF editing modes.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#73933

From	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date	2015-04-22 17:00 -0400
Message-ID	<55380be6$0$19479$c3e8da3$b1356c67@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to	#73909

On 15-04-22 15:10, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:

> Aye. Plus it makes no sense to me in a text editor/lightweight word
> processor to have to Save As in order to switch between plain text and
> RTF editing modes.

You don't have to use SAVE AS to change your editor mode. There is a
menu option to do that.

But this doesn't mean that you shouldn't be able to use your rich text
doc as a source to do a SAVE AS to plain text without first having to
conver the doc to plain text.

The big UI question is whether a SAVE AS operation should change the
context of the current window to that of the newly created copy, or
whether the original document should remain the context of the window.

(say I have A.RTF in rich text, and do a SAVE AS  B.txt in plain text,
should the window still have A.RTF in rich text or  B.txt in plain text
?). There are arguments for both scenarios.

Photoshop has "SAVE AS" and "SAVE A COPY" to distinguich between the two.

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csiph-web

How do mac users create a blank text file where you want it?

Contents

#73908

#73902

#73910

#73911

#73931

#73943

#73945

#73949

#73950

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#73952

#73939

#73940

#73946

#73951

#73962

#73936

#73897

#73909

#73933