Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #73487 > unrolled thread

How do mac users create a blank text file where you want it?

Started by	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
First post	2015-04-20 00:40 +0000
Last post	2015-04-22 09:09 -0700
Articles	20 on this page of 379 — 28 participants

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#73714

From	Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date	2015-04-20 13:01 +0000
Message-ID	<slrnmj9u7h.42i.g.kreme@amelia.local>
In reply to	#73695

In message <200420151025329149%timstreater@greenbee.net> 
  Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
> In article <mh27ks$i5o$40@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
> <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>>dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote in message
>>1m36u6u.hoc9xyqd2n2rNMon, 20 Apr 2015 18:32:15 +1200empson@actrix.gen.nz
>>
>>> It isn't my default text editor - I rarely use TextEdit for plain text
>>> documents as I prefer much more powerful software like TextWrangler (for
>>> features such as regular expression searches).
>>
>>Over the years, I have been on plenty of systems, from IBM mainframes to 
>>PDP 11s to a variety of DEC and Masscomp and Sun systems, to Windows, 
>>Apple and Linux boxes more recently and even to embedded systems like 
>>routers and microcontrollers.
>>
>>One thing I've learned is that you can *only* always rely on the 
>>*default* text editor being there.

> Oh really? I've always had difficulty finding a text editor on a
> Windows machine.

Well, there's notepad.exe, but it is *terrible*.

I used to use notepad++ which was ... well, pretty decent and had lots
and lots of features. It was sort of a mess with 8 bazillion option
settings, but at least it supported regex and was, IIRC, freeware.

But notepad.exe is barely better than edlin.

-- 
Monique: He keeps putting his testicles all over me. Lane: Excuse me?

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#73566

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-04-20 04:14 +0000
Message-ID	<cpjcolF7dq8U4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#73552

On 2015-04-20, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> 190420152246500172nospamospam@nospam.invalid
>
>> once again, the app defaults to rtf, so disable that *in the app*, not
>> the save panel.
>
> It wasn't intuitive that you have to basically turn off the capability
> to Save As, by turning on the capability for the default text editor to
> save ASCII text, but it's done.

Bullshit. Nothing is turned off. And you didn't even have to do that. I
told you to choose Format > Make Plain Text, but that was too simple for
you, and you wanted to continue your lame troll, so you ignored it and
instead chose the more complicated path of changing default preferences. 

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#73577

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 04:34 +0000
Message-ID	<mh1vkd$i5o$9@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#73566

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote in message
cpjcolF7dq8U4@mid.individual.net

> Bullshit. Nothing is turned off.

Thanks, in part to you, I better understand what Mac users do when using 
the default text editor to save either to ASCII or as one of the other formats.

As I noted, I will test this tomorrow, but from what David Empson (et al.)
intimated, I will advise the user that there are only two options when using
the default text editor to save to ASCII text files and still have the 
option to save to the other available formats.

Either the Mac user temporarily saves to the wrong format and then formats
to the desired format, or the Mac user temporarily sets the preferences to
save to ASCII and then immediately unsets those preferences which then
turns back on the ability to save as the other available formats.

It's amazing what the Mac users put up with, but, certainly I see now 
(in spades) why nospam (et al.) suggested a different text editor than
the default.

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#73579

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-04-20 04:41 +0000
Message-ID	<cpjebnF7dq8U10@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#73577

On 2015-04-20, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote in message
> cpjcolF7dq8U4@mid.individual.net
>
>> Bullshit. Nothing is turned off. And you didn't even have to do that.
>> I told you to choose Format > Make Plain Text, but that was too
>> simple for you, and you wanted to continue your lame troll, so you
>> ignored it and instead chose the more complicated path of changing
>> default preferences.                      
>
> Thanks, in part to you, I better understand what Mac users do when
> using the default text editor to save either to ASCII or as one of the
> other formats.

Nope, you still don't get it. You are either extremely dense, or you are
trolling.

> As I noted, I will test this tomorrow, but from what David Empson (et
> al.) intimated, I will advise the user that there are only two options
> when using the default text editor to save to ASCII text files and
> still have the option to save to the other available formats.
>
> Either the Mac user temporarily saves to the wrong format and then
> formats to the desired format,

GET THIS THROUGH YOUR INCREDIBLY THICK HEAD:

There is absolutely no reason to save to the wrong format. All you need
to do is choose Format > Make Plain|Rich Text from the menu bar before
you save the document. Done deal.

> or the Mac user temporarily sets the preferences to save to ASCII and
> then immediately unsets those preferences which then turns back on the
> ability to save as the other available formats.

No need to do any of that. All you need to do is choose Format > Make
Plain|Rich Text before you save the document. Done deal.

> It's amazing what the Mac users put up with

Yeah, we put up with assholes like you. Fuck off with your asinine
trolls. You're a clueless idiot.

> but, certainly I see now (in spades) why nospam (et al.) suggested a
> different text editor than the default.

Nope, he suggested TextWrangler because its features are designed for
plain text editing while TextEdit's features are design primarily for
rich text. 

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#73598

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 05:35 +0000
Message-ID	<mh236t$i5o$15@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#73579

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote in message
cpjebnF7dq8U10@mid.individual.net

> There is absolutely no reason to save to the wrong format. All you need
> to do is choose Format > Make Plain|Rich Text from the menu bar before
> you save the document. Done deal.

Ah. That changes things if you can do *either* a "File >Save As" or a 
"Format > Make Plain Text|Make Rich Text" on the same document.

So, what you are saying is that I can have the Macintosh user click on 
Untitled.txt, and *both* those options will always be available, so that 
the Macintosh user always has the option to save *either* as ASCII text 
or as any one of the 8 options in the "Save As" menu?

If so, that's the simplest method yet, albeit unintuitive that two 
different menus need to be used simply to save a file using the default
text editor.

But, if they're always available at all times to the user, then using two 
separate menus to save a file either as ASCII text or as one of the other 
formats is the simplest approach!

Thanks for clarifying that there was no need to save to the wrong format!
I'll test this out tomorrow, when I have access to the Macintosh, and 
report back (hopefully with success).

Thanks!

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#73607

From	Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date	2015-04-19 22:59 -0700
Message-ID	<190420152259268340%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to	#73598

In article <mh236t$i5o$15@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> So, what you are saying is that I can have the Macintosh user click on 
> Untitled.txt, and *both* those options will always be available, so that 
> the Macintosh user always has the option to save *either* as ASCII text 
> or as any one of the 8 options in the "Save As" menu?

By George, he's (finally) got it!

> If so, that's the simplest method yet, albeit unintuitive that two 
> different menus need to be used simply to save a file using the default
> text editor.

Well, not quite got it.  You don't need two different menus to save a
file using TextEdit.

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#73628

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 06:32 +0000
Message-ID	<mh26io$i5o$33@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#73607

Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
190420152259268340%michelle@michelle.org

> Well, not quite got it.  You don't need two different menus to save a
> file using TextEdit.

What I understand is that I will advise the user save a file *to* TEXT 
using the "Format" sequence, namely: Format > Make Plain Text, File > Save

When the user wishes to save *as" another format, I'll advise they use a 
different sequence, namely: File > Save > File Format > {other formats}

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#73721

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-04-20 14:06 +0000
Message-ID	<cpkfelFg4haU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#73628

On 2015-04-20, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
> 190420152259268340%michelle@michelle.org
>
>> Well, not quite got it.  You don't need two different menus to save a
>> file using TextEdit.
>
> What I understand is that I will advise the user save a file *to* TEXT 
> using the "Format" sequence, namely: Format > Make Plain Text, File > Save
>
> When the user wishes to save *as" another format, I'll advise they use a 
> different sequence, namely: File > Save > File Format > {other formats}

Not quite, no. TextEdit is set to use one of those formats by default in
preferences. 

If TextEdit Preferences > Format is set to Rich text:

To create an RTF document:
1. File > Save

To create a plain text document:
1. Format > Make Plain Text
2. File > Save

So you only need two steps when you are creating documents that are not
the type set in preferences.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#73583

From	Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date	2015-04-19 21:46 -0700
Message-ID	<190420152146265515%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to	#73577

In article <mh1vkd$i5o$9@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> Either the Mac user temporarily saves to the wrong format and then formats
> to the desired format, or the Mac user temporarily sets the preferences to
> save to ASCII and then immediately unsets those preferences which then
> turns back on the ability to save as the other available formats.

That is totally untrue.

> It's amazing what the Mac users put up with, but, certainly I see now 
> (in spades) why nospam (et al.) suggested a different text editor than
> the default.

It is amazing that we put up with you.  You are either deliberately
misconstruing what we have been telling you, or you are too stupid to
understand what we have been telling you.

Stop trying to help people with Macintosh problems or questions; you
are totally unqualified to help them.

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#73594

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 05:12 +0000
Message-ID	<mh21s7$iaa$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#73583

Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
190420152146265515%michelle@michelle.org

>> Either the Mac user temporarily saves to the wrong format and then
>> formats to the desired format, or the Mac user temporarily sets the
>> preferences to save to ASCII and then immediately unsets those
>> preferences which then turns back on the ability to save as the other
>> available formats.
> 
> That is totally untrue.

Since it's exactly what happens, you'll need to explain where (you think) 
it is untrue.

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#73600

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 05:45 +0000
Message-ID	<mh23p9$i5o$17@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#73594

"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote in message
mh21s7$iaa$1@news.albasani.net

>>> Either the Mac user temporarily saves to the wrong format and then
>>> formats to the desired format, or the Mac user temporarily sets the
>>> preferences to save to ASCII and then immediately unsets those
>>> preferences which then turns back on the ability to save as the other
>>> available formats.
>> 
>> That is totally untrue.
> 
> Since it's exactly what happens, you'll need to explain where (you
> think)
> it is untrue.

Actually, Jolly Roger explained why I was mistaken, based on the word 
"formatting" versus "saving" (both of which are needed).

It's non-intuitive, but it turns out that the default text editor has two 
different menus for *saving* files, one for what Apple calls *formatting* 
a file (to either ASCII or RTF), and the other to *Save As* a variety of 
other formats.

1. Format > Make Plain/Rich Text 
2. File > Save > File Format > {a variety of formats}

I will let the user know *not* to use the preferences method, but to use 
the two-different-menu method, which, I agree, is both simpler and more 
flexible than the Preferences method.

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#73639

From	jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date	2015-04-20 18:49 +1200
Message-ID	<1m36x0h.143c0frjykmx2N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to	#73600

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote in message
> mh21s7$iaa$1@news.albasani.net
> 
> >>> Either the Mac user temporarily saves to the wrong format and then
> >>> formats to the desired format, or the Mac user temporarily sets the
> >>> preferences to save to ASCII and then immediately unsets those
> >>> preferences which then turns back on the ability to save as the other
> >>> available formats.
> >> 
> >> That is totally untrue.
> > 
> > Since it's exactly what happens, you'll need to explain where (you
> > think)
> > it is untrue.
> 
> Actually, Jolly Roger explained why I was mistaken, based on the word
> "formatting" versus "saving" (both of which are needed).
> 
> It's non-intuitive, but it turns out that the default text editor has two
> different menus for *saving* files, one for what Apple calls *formatting*
> a file (to either ASCII or RTF), and the other to *Save As* a variety of
> other formats.
> 
> 1. Format > Make Plain/Rich Text 
> 2. File > Save > File Format > {a variety of formats}
> 
> I will let the user know *not* to use the preferences method, but to use
> the two-different-menu method, which, I agree, is both simpler and more
> flexible than the Preferences method.

Wrong. Only Save or Save As saves a document. Are you retarded?
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#73664

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 07:17 +0000
Message-ID	<mh296o$i5o$49@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#73639

jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote in message
1m36x0h.143c0frjykmx2N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz

> Wrong. Only Save or Save As saves a document. 
> Are you retarded?

:)

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#73730

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-04-20 14:17 +0000
Message-ID	<cpkg3nFg4haU4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#73639

On 2015-04-20, Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
>
> Wrong. Only Save or Save As saves a document. Are you retarded?

Not sure if you asked this in jest, or not; but on a serious note, I
have to say he definitely seems to be mentally challenged with regard to
simple logic. Either that or he's really good at giving the appearance
of being mentally challenged while trolling.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#73769

From	jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date	2015-04-21 03:36 +1200
Message-ID	<1m37ksf.1fw90shc391jnN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to	#73730

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2015-04-20, Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> >
> > Wrong. Only Save or Save As saves a document. Are you retarded?
> 
> Not sure if you asked this in jest, or not; but on a serious note, I
> have to say he definitely seems to be mentally challenged with regard to
> simple logic. Either that or he's really good at giving the appearance
> of being mentally challenged while trolling.

Speaking as someone with aspergers, I have no time for this clown. Being
a fuckwit is not a mental condition I sympathise with. Jesus - even as a
teenager behind the social curve due to my social awkwardness, pedantry,
and geekiness, I had more social skills and likability than this
dickhead. Not to mention ability to learn and adapt.

-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#73728

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-04-20 14:16 +0000
Message-ID	<cpkg16Fg4haU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#73600

On 2015-04-20, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote in message
> mh21s7$iaa$1@news.albasani.net
>
>>>> Either the Mac user temporarily saves to the wrong format and then
>>>> formats to the desired format, or the Mac user temporarily sets the
>>>> preferences to save to ASCII and then immediately unsets those
>>>> preferences which then turns back on the ability to save as the other
>>>> available formats.
>>> 
>>> That is totally untrue.
>> 
>> Since it's exactly what happens, you'll need to explain where (you
>> think)
>> it is untrue.
>
> Actually, Jolly Roger explained why I was mistaken, based on the word 
> "formatting" versus "saving" (both of which are needed).

Nope, they aren't "both needed" in all cases. 

TextEdit (in its default configuration) treats new documents as rich
text documents. There is absolutely no need to issue the format command
if rich text is what you want - in that case, you can simply save the
document. 

If you want a plain text document, you first tell TextEdit you want the
document to be plain text by choosing Format > Make Plain Text, then you
save the document.

> It's non-intuitive

No, it's perfectly fine. You just don't have a very firm grasp on basic
logic. And you are *extremely* thick-headed.

>, but it turns out that the default text editor has two 
> different menus for *saving* files

Wrong.

> one for what Apple calls *formatting* a file (to either ASCII or RTF), 

Wrong. The format menu command has absolutely *nothing* to do with
saving a file. All it does is change the way TextEdit treats the
document in memory. For instance, when the format of a document is set
to rich text, there is a tab bar and style controls at the top of the
document window. When the format is set to plain text, those controls
are removed, since they don't apply to plain text documents. The same
goes for the options in the Save dialog box - only those formats
applicable to the type of document are shown when saving the document.

> and the other to *Save As* a variety of other formats.

Wrong. Saving presents the formats that are applicable to the type of
document that is in memory. 

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#73605

From	Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date	2015-04-19 22:57 -0700
Message-ID	<190420152257039783%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to	#73594

In article <mh21s7$iaa$1@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
> 190420152146265515%michelle@michelle.org
> 
> >> Either the Mac user temporarily saves to the wrong format and then
> >> formats to the desired format, or the Mac user temporarily sets the
> >> preferences to save to ASCII and then immediately unsets those
> >> preferences which then turns back on the ability to save as the other
> >> available formats.
> > 
> > That is totally untrue.
> 
> Since it's exactly what happens, you'll need to explain where (you think) 
> it is untrue.

It is not what happens at all, and it has repeatedly been explained to
you.  Explaining it one more time would serve no useful purpose because
you either can't understand or deliberately refuse to understand.

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#73627

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 06:32 +0000
Message-ID	<mh26hk$i5o$32@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#73605

Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
190420152257039783%michelle@michelle.org

> It is not what happens at all, and it has repeatedly been explained to
> you.  Explaining it one more time would serve no useful purpose because
> you either can't understand or deliberately refuse to understand.

What I understand is that I will advise the user save a file *to* TEXT 
using the "Format" sequence, namely: Format > Make Plain Text, File > Save

When the user wishes to save *as" another format, I'll advise they use a 
different sequence, namely: File > Save > File Format > {other formats}

It would be nice to know the logic inherent in these two differently 
named menus which essentially do the same thing.

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#73631

From	Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date	2015-04-19 23:36 -0700
Message-ID	<190420152336301780%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to	#73627

In article <mh26hk$i5o$32@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> What I understand is that I will advise the user save a file *to* TEXT 
> using the "Format" sequence, namely: Format > Make Plain Text, File > Save

If you set preferences to Plain Text, you won't need "Format > Make
Plain Text" in that sequence.

> When the user wishes to save *as" another format, I'll advise they
> use a different sequence, namely: File > Save > File Format > {other
> formats}

That is assuming that preferences weren't set to Plain Text, and also
ignores the various text encodings of Plain Text.

> It would be nice to know the logic inherent in these two differently 
> named menus which essentially do the same thing.

No, they do not do the same thing.

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#73636

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 06:46 +0000
Message-ID	<mh27c5$i5o$39@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#73631

Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
190420152336301780%michelle@michelle.org

> If you set preferences to Plain Text, you won't need "Format > Make
> Plain Text" in that sequence.

Yes but.

You lose the ability to save to the other formats.

Unless you re-set the preferences back.

Which is a waste of time.

The two-menu method is the best we can come up with if the user wishes to 
determine, on the fly, the file format.

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csiph-web

How do mac users create a blank text file where you want it?

Contents

#73714

#73566

#73577

#73579

#73598

#73607

#73628

#73721

#73583

#73594

#73600

#73639

#73664

#73730

#73769

#73728

#73605

#73627

#73631

#73636