Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #73487 > unrolled thread

How do mac users create a blank text file where you want it?

Started by	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
First post	2015-04-20 00:40 +0000
Last post	2015-04-22 09:09 -0700
Articles	20 on this page of 379 — 28 participants

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#73689

From	jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date	2015-04-20 20:15 +1200
Message-ID	<1m371kh.1wp5fgw1yhmnybN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to	#73680

Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

> On 2015-04-20, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> > "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote in message
> > mh1p4o$3dm$13@news.albasani.net
> >
> >> Which of these options is the ASCII text format?
> >> http://i.imgur.com/FDYa45h.png
> >
> > Thanks to nospam, who had initially explained how to unhide
> > the hidden option for the default text editor to save as portable
> > ASCII text files. (And to Jolly Roger for confirming the steps, 
> > where he explained it in more detail, with a screenshot.)
> >
> > Now everything is fine.
> >
> > I learned important things about Macintosh protocols.
> >
> > 1. 
> 
> >
> > 2. 
> 
> >
> > 3. 
> 
> 4. Mac users are massively intolerant of anyone criticising their
> precious system.

You mean all people are intolerant of intentionally obtuse idiots?
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#73698

From	Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid>
Date	2015-04-20 09:43 +0000
Message-ID	<cpk027Fc4dcU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#73689

On 2015-04-20, Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2015-04-20, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>> > "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote in message
>> > mh1p4o$3dm$13@news.albasani.net
>> >
>> >> Which of these options is the ASCII text format?
>> >> http://i.imgur.com/FDYa45h.png
>> >
>> > Thanks to nospam, who had initially explained how to unhide
>> > the hidden option for the default text editor to save as portable
>> > ASCII text files. (And to Jolly Roger for confirming the steps, 
>> > where he explained it in more detail, with a screenshot.)
>> >
>> > Now everything is fine.
>> >
>> > I learned important things about Macintosh protocols.
>> >
>> > 1. 
>> 
>> >
>> > 2. 
>> 
>> >
>> > 3. 
>> 
>> 4. Mac users are massively intolerant of anyone criticising their
>> precious system.
>
> You mean all people are intolerant of intentionally obtuse idiots?

Thanks, but I already have enough evidence in support of my assertion.


-- 
Today is Setting Orange, the 37th day of Discord in the YOLD 3181
                  I don't have an attitude problem.
    If you have a problem with my attitude, that's your problem.

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#73754

From	Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date	2015-04-20 07:44 -0700
Message-ID	<200420150744208042%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to	#73698

In article <cpk027Fc4dcU2@mid.individual.net>, Huge
<Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

> >> 4. Mac users are massively intolerant of anyone criticising their
> >> precious system.
> >
> > You mean all people are intolerant of intentionally obtuse idiots?
> 
> Thanks, but I already have enough evidence in support of my assertion.

You do not have any evidence of that, trollboi.

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#73905

From	Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid>
Date	2015-04-22 18:13 +0000
Message-ID	<cpq6m8F1f4U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#73754

On 2015-04-20, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> In article <cpk027Fc4dcU2@mid.individual.net>, Huge
><Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>
>> >> 4. Mac users are massively intolerant of anyone criticising their
>> >> precious system.
>> >
>> > You mean all people are intolerant of intentionally obtuse idiots?
>> 
>> Thanks, but I already have enough evidence in support of my assertion.
>
> You do not have any evidence of that, trollboi.

Fuck you, you patronising, ignorant, intolerant sack of shit.

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#73922

From	Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date	2015-04-22 12:24 -0700
Message-ID	<220420151224023484%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to	#73905

In article <cpq6m8F1f4U1@mid.individual.net>, Huge
<Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

> On 2015-04-20, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> > In article <cpk027Fc4dcU2@mid.individual.net>, Huge
> ><Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> >> 4. Mac users are massively intolerant of anyone criticising their
> >> >> precious system.
> >> >
> >> > You mean all people are intolerant of intentionally obtuse idiots?
> >> 
> >> Thanks, but I already have enough evidence in support of my assertion.
> >
> > You do not have any evidence of that, trollboi.
> 
> Fuck you, you patronising, ignorant, intolerant sack of shit.

Aw, I hurt your feelings...

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#74264

From	tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.org>
Date	2015-04-26 18:38 -0700
Message-ID	<0001HW.1AEDCA98030E69DD1123D03CF@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to	#73922

On Apr 22, 2015, Michelle Steiner wrote
(in article<220420151224023484%michelle@michelle.org>):

> In article<cpq6m8F1f4U1@mid.individual.net>, Huge
> <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid>wrote:
> 
> > On 2015-04-20, Michelle Steiner<michelle@michelle.org>wrote:
> > > In article<cpk027Fc4dcU2@mid.individual.net>, Huge
> > > <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid>wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > > 4. Mac users are massively intolerant of anyone criticising their
> > > > > > precious system.
> > > > > 
> > > > > You mean all people are intolerant of intentionally obtuse idiots?
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks, but I already have enough evidence in support of my assertion.
> > > 
> > > You do not have any evidence of that, trollboi.
> > 
> > Fuck you, you patronising, ignorant, intolerant sack of shit.
> 
> Aw, I hurt your feelings...

I didn’t know he *had* any feelings.


--
We'll cross that bridge when we come back to it later.

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#73710

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date	2015-04-20 08:00 -0400
Message-ID	<200420150800524664%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to	#73680

In article <cpjqmqFaopaU1@mid.individual.net>, Huge
<Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

> 
> 4. Mac users are massively intolerant of anyone criticising their
> precious system.

bullshit

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#74086

From	tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.org>
Date	2015-04-25 20:32 -0700
Message-ID	<0001HW.1AEC93D202C593B110B9E73CF@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to	#73680

On Apr 20, 2015, Huge wrote
(in article<cpjqmqFaopaU1@mid.individual.net>):

> On 2015-04-20, Adam H. Kerman<ahk@chinet.com>wrote:
> > "Adam H. Kerman"<ahk@chinet.com>wrote in message
> > mh1p4o$3dm$13@news.albasani.net
> > 
> > > Which of these options is the ASCII text format?
> > > http://i.imgur.com/FDYa45h.png
> > 
> > Thanks to nospam, who had initially explained how to unhide
> > the hidden option for the default text editor to save as portable
> > ASCII text files. (And to Jolly Roger for confirming the steps,
> > where he explained it in more detail, with a screenshot.)
> > 
> > Now everything is fine.
> > 
> > I learned important things about Macintosh protocols.
> > 
> > 1.
> 
> > 
> > 2.
> 
> > 
> > 3.
> 
> 4. Mac users are massively intolerant of anyone criticising their
> precious system.

Oh horseshit.Mac has a different approach.Anything new takes time to learn. 
Once I learned it I found myself more productive that in Windows.If you 
don’t like it fine, but why bring your trolling bullshit around here.Are 
you just THAT board at the trailer park?

--
We'll cross that bridge when we come back to it later.

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#74128

From	Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid>
Date	2015-04-26 13:37 +0000
Message-ID	<cq480aFggt2U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#74086

On 2015-04-26, tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.org> wrote:
> On Apr 20, 2015, Huge wrote
> (in article<cpjqmqFaopaU1@mid.individual.net>):
>
>> On 2015-04-20, Adam H. Kerman<ahk@chinet.com>wrote:
>> > "Adam H. Kerman"<ahk@chinet.com>wrote in message
>> > mh1p4o$3dm$13@news.albasani.net
>> > 
>> > > Which of these options is the ASCII text format?
>> > > http://i.imgur.com/FDYa45h.png
>> > 
>> > Thanks to nospam, who had initially explained how to unhide
>> > the hidden option for the default text editor to save as portable
>> > ASCII text files. (And to Jolly Roger for confirming the steps,
>> > where he explained it in more detail, with a screenshot.)
>> > 
>> > Now everything is fine.
>> > 
>> > I learned important things about Macintosh protocols.
>> > 
>> > 1.
>> 
>> > 
>> > 2.
>> 
>> > 
>> > 3.
>> 
>> 4. Mac users are massively intolerant of anyone criticising their
>> precious system.
>
> Oh horseshit.

As you wish.  You're wrong, but I don't GAS. Although I am amused to
watch you proving my point.

> Mac has a different approach.Anything new takes time to learn. 
> Once I learned it I found myself more productive that in Windows.If you 
> don’t like it fine, but why bring your trolling bullshit around here.Are 
> you just THAT board at the trailer park?

Ooh, a misspelled 'ad hominem'. That *really* proves your point.

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#74154

From	tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.org>
Date	2015-04-26 08:38 -0700
Message-ID	<0001HW.1AED3DDF02ED6EB8117B493CF@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to	#74128

On Apr 26, 2015, Huge wrote
(in article<cq480aFggt2U1@mid.individual.net>):

> On 2015-04-26, tmo1138<tmo1138@tmo1138.org>wrote:
> > On Apr 20, 2015, Huge wrote
> > (in article<cpjqmqFaopaU1@mid.individual.net>):
> > 
> > > On 2015-04-20, Adam H. Kerman<ahk@chinet.com>wrote:
> > > > "Adam H. Kerman"<ahk@chinet.com>wrote in message
> > > > mh1p4o$3dm$13@news.albasani.net
> > > > 
> > > > > Which of these options is the ASCII text format?
> > > > > http://i.imgur.com/FDYa45h.png
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks to nospam, who had initially explained how to unhide
> > > > the hidden option for the default text editor to save as portable
> > > > ASCII text files. (And to Jolly Roger for confirming the steps,
> > > > where he explained it in more detail, with a screenshot.)
> > > > 
> > > > Now everything is fine.
> > > > 
> > > > I learned important things about Macintosh protocols.
> > > > 
> > > > 1.
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 2.
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 3.
> > > 
> > > 4. Mac users are massively intolerant of anyone criticising their
> > > precious system.
> > 
> > Oh horseshit.
> 
> As you wish. You're wrong, but I don't GAS. Although I am amused to
> watch you proving my point.
> 
> > Mac has a different approach.Anything new takes time to learn.
> > Once I learned it I found myself more productive that in Windows.If you
> > don’t like it fine, but why bring your trolling bullshit around here.Are
> > you just THAT board at the trailer park?
> 
> Ooh, a misspelled 'ad hominem'. That *really* proves your point.

Ooh.. a spelling nazi.. that REALLY drives home that you have no point, 
trollboi.

--
"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they 
are genuine."
-- Abraham Lincoln

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#74155

From	Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid>
Date	2015-04-26 15:39 +0000
Message-ID	<cq4f5lFicjvU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#74154

On 2015-04-26, tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.org> wrote:
> On Apr 26, 2015, Huge wrote
> (in article<cq480aFggt2U1@mid.individual.net>):
>
>> On 2015-04-26, tmo1138<tmo1138@tmo1138.org>wrote:
>> > On Apr 20, 2015, Huge wrote
>> > (in article<cpjqmqFaopaU1@mid.individual.net>):
>> > 
>> > > On 2015-04-20, Adam H. Kerman<ahk@chinet.com>wrote:
>> > > > "Adam H. Kerman"<ahk@chinet.com>wrote in message
>> > > > mh1p4o$3dm$13@news.albasani.net
>> > > > 
>> > > > > Which of these options is the ASCII text format?
>> > > > > http://i.imgur.com/FDYa45h.png
>> > > > 
>> > > > Thanks to nospam, who had initially explained how to unhide
>> > > > the hidden option for the default text editor to save as portable
>> > > > ASCII text files. (And to Jolly Roger for confirming the steps,
>> > > > where he explained it in more detail, with a screenshot.)
>> > > > 
>> > > > Now everything is fine.
>> > > > 
>> > > > I learned important things about Macintosh protocols.
>> > > > 
>> > > > 1.
>> > > 
>> > > > 
>> > > > 2.
>> > > 
>> > > > 
>> > > > 3.
>> > > 
>> > > 4. Mac users are massively intolerant of anyone criticising their
>> > > precious system.
>> > 
>> > Oh horseshit.
>> 
>> As you wish. You're wrong, but I don't GAS. Although I am amused to
>> watch you proving my point.
>> 
>> > Mac has a different approach.Anything new takes time to learn.
>> > Once I learned it I found myself more productive that in Windows.If you
>> > don’t like it fine, but why bring your trolling bullshit around here.Are
>> > you just THAT board at the trailer park?
>> 
>> Ooh, a misspelled 'ad hominem'. That *really* proves your point.
>
> Ooh.. a spelling nazi.. that REALLY drives home that you have no point, 
> trollboi.

Yawn.

*plonk*

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#74265

From	tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.org>
Date	2015-04-26 18:39 -0700
Message-ID	<0001HW.1AEDCACD030E765F1123D03CF@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to	#74155

On Apr 26, 2015, Huge wrote
(in article<cq4f5lFicjvU1@mid.individual.net>):

> On 2015-04-26, tmo1138<tmo1138@tmo1138.org>wrote:
> > On Apr 26, 2015, Huge wrote
> > (in article<cq480aFggt2U1@mid.individual.net>):
> > 
> > > On 2015-04-26, tmo1138<tmo1138@tmo1138.org>wrote:
> > > > On Apr 20, 2015, Huge wrote
> > > > (in article<cpjqmqFaopaU1@mid.individual.net>):
> > > > 
> > > > > On 2015-04-20, Adam H. Kerman<ahk@chinet.com>wrote:
> > > > > > "Adam H. Kerman"<ahk@chinet.com>wrote in message
> > > > > > mh1p4o$3dm$13@news.albasani.net
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Which of these options is the ASCII text format?
> > > > > > > http://i.imgur.com/FDYa45h.png
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Thanks to nospam, who had initially explained how to unhide
> > > > > > the hidden option for the default text editor to save as portable
> > > > > > ASCII text files. (And to Jolly Roger for confirming the steps,
> > > > > > where he explained it in more detail, with a screenshot.)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Now everything is fine.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I learned important things about Macintosh protocols.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 1.
> > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 2.
> > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 3.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 4. Mac users are massively intolerant of anyone criticising their
> > > > > precious system.
> > > > 
> > > > Oh horseshit.
> > > 
> > > As you wish. You're wrong, but I don't GAS. Although I am amused to
> > > watch you proving my point.
> > > 
> > > > Mac has a different approach.Anything new takes time to learn.
> > > > Once I learned it I found myself more productive that in Windows.If you
> > > > don’t like it fine, but why bring your trolling bullshit around 
here.Are
> > > > you just THAT board at the trailer park?
> > > 
> > > Ooh, a misspelled 'ad hominem'. That *really* proves your point.
> > 
> > Ooh.. a spelling nazi.. that REALLY drives home that you have no point,
> > trollboi.
> 
> Yawn.
> 
> *plonk*

Oh boo fucking hoo.

--
We'll cross that bridge when we come back to it later.

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#73551

From	David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com>
Date	2015-04-19 22:30 -0500
Message-ID	<alpine.OSX.2.20.1504192218120.57809@mako.ath.cx>
In reply to	#73528

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
NotDashEscaped: You need GnuPG to verify this message

On Monday, 20 April 2015 02:43 -0000, 
 in article <mh1p4o$3dm$13@news.albasani.net>, 
 Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> 190420152232348759nospamospam@nospam.invalid

>> you can't be that stupid.

>> i gave you the link. click it, download, install and it will blow 
>> you away. it's that good.

> This is not my Macintosh. It's not even the Macintosh of the person 
> I am helping. It's a corporate Macintosh.

> Given that, the default ASCII text editor that came with the 
> Macintosh is what I wish to use.

> Everyone said that is TextEdit, and I'm perfectly fine with that if
> I could just get it to save a filename.txt in ASCII format.

> Which of these options is the ASCII text format? 
> http://i.imgur.com/FDYa45h.png

None of the options shown will create a plain text document.

Open TextEdit.  Under the TextEdit menu item, select Preferences.... 
In the New Document pane, tick Plain text.

You may now save your plain text document, where ever you want.  When 
the Save dialog box is open, you can select your text encoding.  
US-ASCII isn't among the default choices, but fear not.  If you click 
on the plain text encoding menu, you'll find that it's editable.  
Select ASCII and you should be ready to rock'n'roll.

-- 
David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com>
 "Awop-bop-a-loo-mop alop-bam-boom!"
                                 - Little Richard [Penniman] (b. 1932)

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#73564

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 04:06 +0000
Message-ID	<mh1u09$i5o$7@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#73551

David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> wrote in message
alpine.OSX.2.20.1504192218120.57809@mako.ath.cx

> None of the options shown will create a plain text document.

Thanks for plainly and clearly explaining that, as it's unintuitive
that the "Save As" dialog box for a default text editor doesn't have
the option to "Save As" ASCII text!

> Open TextEdit.  Under the TextEdit menu item, select Preferences.... 
> In the New Document pane, tick Plain text.

Thanks also for plainly explaining how to unhide the hidden option
for the default text editor to save ASCII text.

What's also unintuive is that David Empson and nospam just intimated 
unhiding the hidden option to save ASCII text also disables the option
for the user to "Save As" any other format.

So, unintuitively, the user can't just "Save as" and have the choice of 
ASCII text along with the other options.
 
> You may now save your plain text document, where ever you want.  When 
> the Save dialog box is open, you can select your text encoding.  
> US-ASCII isn't among the default choices, but fear not.

Sadly, what I'm going to have to do, since this isn't my Macintosh, is
re-hide the hidden option, and inform the user (along with some choice
invectives aimed squarely at the morons who devised this idiotic system) 
that the best way for this user to save a file from the default Mac
text editor will likely be to use the "Save As" dialog box, and, when
portable ASCII text is desired, to either temporarily set the preference
to unhide the ASCII text option, or, to save as the wrong format, and
then format to the right format (if that's possible).

Since even the most basic capability of a text editor can't be taken
for granted on the Macintosh, I can't even take for granted that the 
option to save as the wrong format and then format to the right format
will exist, when I re-hide the ASCII text option that I previously set.

So, I'll have to report back tomorrow if that's even possible, but, either
way, it's a terribly obtused' system, if you ask me for my opinion (and
the poor user will hear me swear to the heavens about having to go through
all this simply to save an ASCII text file using the default text editor!)

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#73571

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-04-20 04:22 +0000
Message-ID	<cpjd8mF7dq8U7@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#73564

On 2015-04-20, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
> Sadly, what I'm going to have to do, since this isn't my Macintosh, is
> re-hide the hidden option, and inform the user (along with some choice
> invectives aimed squarely at the morons who devised this idiotic system) 
> that the best way for this user to save a file from the default Mac
> text editor will likely be to use the "Save As" dialog box, and, when
> portable ASCII text is desired, to either temporarily set the preference
> to unhide the ASCII text option, or, to save as the wrong format, and
> then format to the right format (if that's possible).

For the fucking last time:

1. Open TextEdit
2. Choose Format > Make Plain Text (or Make Rich Text).
3. Save the document.

No preferences need be changed.

> Since even the most basic capability of a text editor can't be taken
> for granted on the Macintosh

Bullshit.

> I can't even take for granted that the 
> option to save as the wrong format and then format to the right format
> will exist, when I re-hide the ASCII text option that I previously set.
>
> So, I'll have to report back tomorrow if that's even possible, but, either
> way, it's a terribly obtused' system, if you ask me for my opinion (and
> the poor user will hear me swear to the heavens about having to go through
> all this simply to save an ASCII text file using the default text editor!)

You are an idiot.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#73618

From	David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com>
Date	2015-04-20 01:15 -0500
Message-ID	<alpine.OSX.2.20.1504192353040.57809@mako.ath.cx>
In reply to	#73564

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
NotDashEscaped: You need GnuPG to verify this message

On Monday, 20 April 2015 04:06 -0000, 
 in article <mh1u09$i5o$7@news.albasani.net>, 
 Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> alpine.OSX.2.20.1504192218120.57809@mako.ath.cx

>> None of the options shown will create a plain text document.

> Thanks for plainly and clearly explaining that, as it's unintuitive 
> that the "Save As" dialog box for a default text editor doesn't have 
> the option to "Save As" ASCII text!

AFAICT, your focusing exclusively on a 7-bit text encoding, ASCII, you 
missed the far more important aspect of the file type, that is plain 
text.  These days, Macs tend to default to UTF-8, as it's an 8-bit 
world, in which we live.  You should think about what kind of text 
file you want to save.

That TextEdit defaults to rich text, and its variants, is a reflection 
of how most of the unwashed masses work, with pretty text, where they 
can force their choices in fonts and colors on their readers.

>> Open TextEdit.  Under the TextEdit menu item, select 
>> Preferences.... In the New Document pane, tick Plain text.

> Thanks also for plainly explaining how to unhide the hidden option
> for the default text editor to save ASCII text.

The option was there all along.  JR kept pointing out the option, 
under the Format menu.  You ignored it, because all you could think 
about was ASCII text encoding.  Ignoring the fact that you were 
initially only being offered rich text options, should have made you 
think about changing the format, to the opposite of rich text, plain 
text.

No, it seems that to you, formatting the file before saving it isn't 
what you're used to.  Most true text editors do just that: edit plain 
text.

Even TextEdit is capable of that, although, as noted, it is quite 
limited in its functions.  I may roll it out, under normal 
circumstances, as often, as twice yearly -- not quite as often, as 
I'll launch a word processor.

On the other hand, I use both CLI editors most of the time.  I'm 
currently using one to compose this message.  Both Terminal and BBEdit 
launch upon login.

nospam rightly recommends TextWrangler, which is available for free 
download, via the App Store.  BBEdit is its yet more powerful big 
brother.

> What's also unintuive is that David Empson and nospam just intimated 
> unhiding the hidden option to save ASCII text also disables the option
> for the user to "Save As" any other format.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I follow.  One can save a plain text file, 
using many different text encodings, including ASCII, if that's what 
you're dead set on having.  Using the Format menu, to move between 
plain and rich text isn't disabled.  Under rich text, all of the same 
options shown in your screen shots are available.  If you want to use 
something compatible with Microsoft's RTF file format, that option is 
available; if you want to save a rich text document as HTML, you can 
do that too.

Format and character set are different concepts.

> So, unintuitively, the user can't just "Save as" and have the choice 
> of ASCII text along with the other options.

Sorry, I'm afraid not within TextEdit.  If you really want a 7-bit 
ASCII text _character_set_, you'll need to select it each and every 
time you save a plain text document.

Of couse, if your only using 7-bit ASCII characters, text encoding 
becomes far less important.  TextEdit's default, UTF-8, is a better 
choice than many.  Anything capalbe of reading the ASCII characters, 
won't have any issues with 7-bit UTF-8 characters.  The characters are 
interchangeable, for decimal characters 0-127 (binary 0000-1111).

>> You may now save your plain text document, where ever you want.  
>> When the Save dialog box is open, you can select your text 
>> encoding.  US-ASCII isn't among the default choices, but fear not.

> Sadly, what I'm going to have to do, since this isn't my Macintosh, 
> is re-hide the hidden option, and inform the user (along with some 
> choice invectives aimed squarely at the morons who devised this 
> idiotic system) that the best way for this user to save a file from 
> the default Mac text editor will likely be to use the "Save As" 
> dialog box, and, when portable ASCII text is desired, to either 
> temporarily set the preference to unhide the ASCII text option, or, 
> to save as the wrong format, and then format to the right format (if 
> that's possible).

I'd have to jump through several hoops, to configure my CLI text 
editors, those upon which I depend constantly, to use only ASCII 
characters.  Even in TextWrangler and BBEdit, there's no option to 
save a file using an ASCII character set, although it's easy to do so, 
before one saves.  Fortunately, BBEdit allows me to convert 8-bit to 
7-bit equivalents, or ASCII escape high bit characters.

> Since even the most basic capability of a text editor can't be taken 
> for granted on the Macintosh, I can't even take for granted that the 
> option to save as the wrong format and then format to the right 
> format will exist, when I re-hide the ASCII text option that I 
> previously set.

You're over-generalizing.  TextEdit may be the default GUI rich/plain 
test editor, packaged with the OS X, it's still far more powerful than 
Notepad, packaged with Windows.  OS X is not Windows.

> So, I'll have to report back tomorrow if that's even possible, but, 
> either way, it's a terribly obtused' system, if you ask me for my 
> opinion (and the poor user will hear me swear to the heavens about 
> having to go through all this simply to save an ASCII text file 
> using the default text editor!)

Please.  Selecting the format of a file, prior to saving it, is hardly 
putting one out.

Yes, MS Word offers the file selection option, to save the file in 
whatever _format_ one desires, in its save dialog box, but I don't 
recall that it allows one to choose a character set there.  I seem to 
recall Word wanting to save everything in Windows-1252 characters.

Not immediately recognizing the difference between plain and rich text 
actually takes quite a bit of effort.

-- 
David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com>
 Be kind to animals; kiss a shark.

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#73622

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 06:22 +0000
Message-ID	<mh25ug$i5o$30@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#73618

David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> wrote in message
alpine.OSX.2.20.1504192353040.57809@mako.ath.cx

> AFAICT, your focusing exclusively on a 7-bit text encoding, ASCII, you
> missed the far more important aspect of the file type, that is plain
> text.  These days, Macs tend to default to UTF-8, as it's an 8-bit
> world, in which we live.  You should think about what kind of text file
> you want to save.

This is a good point.

It wasn't stated in the OP, but the intent was to save partial output
from a confidential web-based form (but only the user's text) to a file 
which was then saved onto a flash drive which is to be handed to another 
person in the morning.

We wanted the file to be portable, and we couldn't just save the web page 
(since we'd have to extensively edit out tons of unnecessary formatting).

Normally, in such a situation, the most portable file format is plain 
text. As you surmised, we didn't delve further into the type of encoding 
other than that.

What do you think is the most portable format for plain text?

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#73635

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 06:43 +0000
Message-ID	<mh277a$i5o$38@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#73622

David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> wrote in message
alpine.OSX.2.20.1504200132160.57809@mako.ath.cx

> I think you'd be well served, using UTF-8,

It's too late now to change things, but I will inform the user of that
in the morning. 

Thanks!

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#73637

From	David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com>
Date	2015-04-20 01:41 -0500
Message-ID	<alpine.OSX.2.20.1504200132160.57809@mako.ath.cx>
In reply to	#73622

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
NotDashEscaped: You need GnuPG to verify this message

On Monday, 20 April 2015 06:22 -0000, 
 in article <mh25ug$i5o$30@news.albasani.net>, 
 Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> alpine.OSX.2.20.1504192353040.57809@mako.ath.cx

>> AFAICT, your focusing exclusively on a 7-bit text encoding, ASCII, 
>> you missed the far more important aspect of the file type, that is 
>> plain text.  These days, Macs tend to default to UTF-8, as it's an 
>> 8-bit world, in which we live.  You should think about what kind of 
>> text file you want to save.

> This is a good point.

> It wasn't stated in the OP, but the intent was to save partial 
> output from a confidential web-based form (but only the user's text) 
> to a file which was then saved onto a flash drive which is to be 
> handed to another person in the morning.

> We wanted the file to be portable, and we couldn't just save the web 
> page (since we'd have to extensively edit out tons of unnecessary 
> formatting).

> Normally, in such a situation, the most portable file format is 
> plain text. As you surmised, we didn't delve further into the type 
> of encoding other than that.

> What do you think is the most portable format for plain text?

I think you'd be well served, using UTF-8, in a Mac environment and 
elsewhere.  UTF-8 passed ASCII and ISO-889-1 in use, in 2008, and 
appears to be continuing to grow.  See 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-8>.

-- 
David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com>
 Be kind to animals; kiss a shark.

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#73691

From	Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net>
Date	2015-04-20 10:15 +0100
Message-ID	<200420151015031391%timstreater@greenbee.net>
In reply to	#73637

In article <alpine.OSX.2.20.1504200132160.57809@mako.ath.cx>, David
Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> wrote:

>On Monday, 20 April 2015 06:22 -0000, 
> in article <mh25ug$i5o$30@news.albasani.net>, 
> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>> David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>> alpine.OSX.2.20.1504192353040.57809@mako.ath.cx
>
>>> AFAICT, your focusing exclusively on a 7-bit text encoding, ASCII, 
>>> you missed the far more important aspect of the file type, that is 
>>> plain text.  These days, Macs tend to default to UTF-8, as it's an 
>>> 8-bit world, in which we live.  You should think about what kind of 
>>> text file you want to save.
>
>> This is a good point.
>
>> It wasn't stated in the OP, but the intent was to save partial 
>> output from a confidential web-based form (but only the user's text) 
>> to a file which was then saved onto a flash drive which is to be 
>> handed to another person in the morning.
>
>> We wanted the file to be portable, and we couldn't just save the web 
>> page (since we'd have to extensively edit out tons of unnecessary 
>> formatting).
>
>> Normally, in such a situation, the most portable file format is 
>> plain text. As you surmised, we didn't delve further into the type 
>> of encoding other than that.
>
>> What do you think is the most portable format for plain text?
>
>I think you'd be well served, using UTF-8, in a Mac environment and 
>elsewhere.  UTF-8 passed ASCII and ISO-889-1 in use, in 2008, and 
>appears to be continuing to grow.  See 
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-8>.

More particularly, ASCII can be considered a subset of UTF-8; the first
128 characters in each are the same.

-- 
"... you must remember that if you're trying to propagate a creed of 
 poverty, gentleness and tolerance,  you need a very rich, powerful,
 authoritarian organisation to do it."             - Vice-Pope Eric

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csiph-web

How do mac users create a blank text file where you want it?

Contents

#73689

#73698

#73754

#73905

#73922

#74264

#73710

#74086

#74128

#74154

#74155

#74265

#73551

#73564

#73571

#73618

#73622

#73635

#73637

#73691