Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #73487 > unrolled thread

How do mac users create a blank text file where you want it?

Started by	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
First post	2015-04-20 00:40 +0000
Last post	2015-04-22 09:09 -0700
Articles	20 on this page of 379 — 28 participants

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#73663

From	David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com>
Date	2015-04-20 02:18 -0500
Message-ID	<alpine.OSX.2.20.1504200214380.57809@mako.ath.cx>
In reply to	#73616

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On Monday, 20 April 2015 06:10 -0000, 
 in article <mh2592$i5o$26@news.albasani.net>, 
 Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> What would you wish me to call the "plain text" files if you're 
> confused by the words "ASCII text"?

Plain text works. 

I'm hardly confused by ASCII character sets, but that's not what 
you're actually after.  The fact is, that selecting 7-bit ASCII will 
turn around and bite you in the butt, the moment someone enters an 
8-bit character into your form.

-- 
David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com>
 Be kind to animals; kiss a shark.

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#73676

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 07:44 +0000
Message-ID	<mh2ao9$i5o$60@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#73663

David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> wrote in message
alpine.OSX.2.20.1504200214380.57809@mako.ath.cx

>> What would you wish me to call the "plain text" files if you're
>> confused by the words "ASCII text"?
> 
> Plain text works.
> 
> I'm hardly confused by ASCII character sets, but that's not what you're
> actually after.  The fact is, that selecting 7-bit ASCII will turn
> around and bite you in the butt, the moment someone enters an 8-bit
> character into your form.

Thanks for clarifying this.

I have used plain text files for decades, but I have never dealt with the 
specifics other than to deal with the way UNIX and Windows handled line 
feeds and end of file characters differently (in the Samba days) and with 
how the older Apple CAP protocol handled the resource and data forks 
differently.

So, my main experience was merely with portability and, in the olden 
days, with mime encoding to convert binary files to ASCII so that they 
could be transmitted on uucp and early email systems (before MIME 
encoding became a matter of course).

So, I guess it's time I boned up on the various text file formats again.
:)

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#73713

From	Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date	2015-04-20 12:57 +0000
Message-ID	<slrnmj9tvc.42i.g.kreme@amelia.local>
In reply to	#73663

In message <alpine.OSX.2.20.1504200214380.57809@mako.ath.cx> 
  David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> wrote:

> On Monday, 20 April 2015 06:10 -0000, 
>  in article <mh2592$i5o$26@news.albasani.net>, 
>  Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>> What would you wish me to call the "plain text" files if you're 
>> confused by the words "ASCII text"?

> Plain text works. 

Plain text is fine. ASCII text implies many thing that are incorrect.

First off, the text format for my files is not ASCII at all, but UTF-8.
This is true for *all* files even if they contain only characters in the
ASCII code table.

Second, it implies that files like rtf file sor html files are not ASCII
text when they very well might be (or might not be, all my HTML files
are UTF-8).

> I'm hardly confused by ASCII character sets, but that's not what 
> you're actually after.  The fact is, that selecting 7-bit ASCII will 
> turn around and bite you in the butt, the moment someone enters an 
> 8-bit character into your form.

And .txt does not imply 7bit ASCII.

$ file test.txt 
test.txt: UTF-8 Unicode text
$ cat test.txt 
This is a test 🖖 

-- 
This wasn't a proper land. The sky was blue, not flaming with all the
colours of the aurora. And time was passing. To a creature not born
subject to time, it was a sensation not unakin to falling. --Lords and
Ladies

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#73655

From	jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date	2015-04-20 19:07 +1200
Message-ID	<1m36xz1.1jt3x1bhosn6uN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to	#73535

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote in message
> cpj6luF5p92U6@mid.individual.net
> 
> > I agree. I just don't agree that allowing you to set the default
> > document type in preferences is dumb.
> 
> It's a moot point now, but once that hidden option is set, then
> the default text editor on the Macintosh easily saves ASCII 
> text.

How is anything hidden?
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#73673

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 07:31 +0000
Message-ID	<mh2a0a$i5o$57@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#73655

jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote in message
1m36xz1.1jt3x1bhosn6uN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz

> How is anything hidden?

You're an idiot and it's time to plunk you, not for me, as I can handle 
idiots, but for everyone else who has to wade through your idiocy.

Gnite forever!

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#73687

From	jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date	2015-04-20 20:13 +1200
Message-ID	<1m3716o.egzy2p1egi9ttN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to	#73673

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote in message
> 1m36xz1.1jt3x1bhosn6uN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz
> 
> > How is anything hidden?
> 
> You're an idiot and it's time to plunk you, not for me, as I can handle
> idiots, but for everyone else who has to wade through your idiocy.
> 
> Gnite forever!

Please do :-)
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#73744

From	Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date	2015-04-20 07:35 -0700
Message-ID	<200420150735296220%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to	#73673

In article <mh2a0a$i5o$57@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote in message
> 1m36xz1.1jt3x1bhosn6uN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz
> 
> > How is anything hidden?
> 
> You're an idiot and it's time to plunk you, not for me, as I can handle 
> idiots, but for everyone else who has to wade through your idiocy.
> 
> Gnite forever!

He is not the idiot; you are the idiot.

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#73771

From	jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date	2015-04-21 03:36 +1200
Message-ID	<1m37lo2.1q03mgr1e4ffrdN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to	#73744

Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> In article <mh2a0a$i5o$57@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
> <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> 
> > jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote in message
> > 1m36xz1.1jt3x1bhosn6uN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz
> > 
> > > How is anything hidden?
> > 
> > You're an idiot and it's time to plunk you, not for me, as I can handle
> > idiots, but for everyone else who has to wade through your idiocy.
> > 
> > Gnite forever!
> 
> He is not the idiot; you are the idiot.

You know he killfiled me (though in fact I doubt he ever really does) on
his last nick, for the same reason given :-D I wish he'd killfile me
permanently. His responses are more annoying than the crap I reply to.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#73784

From	Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date	2015-04-20 09:46 -0700
Message-ID	<200420150946177068%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to	#73673

Here is a way to create a text file without using the TextEdit
application.

1.  Open the Script Editor application; it should be in the Utilities
folder of the Applications folder.  (Pressing Command-U is the shortcut
to the Utilities Folder.)

2.  Paste the following text into the Script Editor window:
set theFile to choose file name
set referenceNumber to open for access theFile
close access theFile

3.  Press Command-S (or choose "Save" from the File menu).

4.  In the File Format: popup menu, choose "Application".

5.  (Optional) Change the name of the file from Untitled to whatever
you want.

6.  Click the Save button.

The above is a one-time thing; you need to do these steps only once. 
If you plan to use this script only once, you can skip steps 3 through
6.

If you do steps 3 through 6, all you need to do is open the applet
created in those steps.

If you do not do steps 3 through 6, press Command-R or choose Run from
the Script menu, or click on the Run icon in the tool bar of the
window.

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#73919

From	Alan Baker <email@domain.com>
Date	2015-04-22 12:19 -0700
Message-ID	<mh8s8u$5bp$1@news.datemas.de>
In reply to	#73535

On 2015-04-20 03:00:49 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:

> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote in message
> cpj6luF5p92U6@mid.individual.net
> 
>> I agree. I just don't agree that allowing you to set the default
>> document type in preferences is dumb.
> 
> It's a moot point now, but once that hidden option is set, then
> the default text editor on the Macintosh easily saves ASCII
> text.

Tell me:

Do you use the perjorative (I'll give you a little time to look that 
up... ...got it now? Good.) term "hidden" when you talk about options 
in the preferences dialog box (do you need "dialog box" explained as 
well? No? Good.) of all applications?

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#73649

From	jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date	2015-04-20 19:07 +1200
Message-ID	<1m36xwy.8dzcdo19mp5c4N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to	#73508

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2015-04-20, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> > In article <cpj69jF5p92U4@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
> ><jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> >
> >> > it's a dumb design to put it there, but that's what it is.
> >> 
> >> Doesn't seem very dumb to me. It's a design choice that TextEdit creates
> >> rich text documents by default. Providing both a default setting in
> >> preferences along with a menu command (and key binding) to change the
> >> format at will seems fine to me.
> >
> > there should be an option at the time of saving.
> 
> I agree. I just don't agree that allowing you to set the default
> document type in preferences is dumb.

That would seem the logical place, to my way of thinking. Preferences
are for rarely made changes and default settings. Menus are for often
used settings and commands.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#73511

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-04-20 02:23 +0000
Message-ID	<cpj69jF5p92U4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#73503

On 2015-04-20, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <mh1msl$3dm$3@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
><ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>> 11. The box defaults to Rich Text Document.
>
> change that in the app's preferences before saving.

Or simply choose Format > Make Plain Text from the TextEdit menu bar.

The TextEdit Preferences > New Document > Format setting lets you
specify whether new documents you create are plain text or rich text
format. 

Regardless of which format is specified in preferences, you can always
use the Format > Make Plain Text menu command to change the current
document to the format you want.

> it's a dumb design to put it there, but that's what it is.

Doesn't seem very dumb to me. It's a design choice that TextEdit creates
rich text documents by default. Providing both a default setting in
preferences along with a menu command (and key binding) to change the
format at will seems fine to me.

> if you want to edit text files, get text wrangler, which is free.
> it's by far the best text editor on any platform. even the free version
> will do a shitload of stuff, including formatting html or source code,
> all very configurable. there are even command line tools for it.
>
><http://www.barebones.com/products/textwrangler/>

Yes. TextWrangler or any other plain text editor would be much better
suited for editing plain text files than TextEdit, which is better
suited as a general-purpose word processor for editing rich text
documents.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#73516

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date	2015-04-19 22:29 -0400
Message-ID	<190420152229056252%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to	#73511

In article <cpj69jF5p92U4@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
<jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> > it's a dumb design to put it there, but that's what it is.
> 
> Doesn't seem very dumb to me. It's a design choice that TextEdit creates
> rich text documents by default. Providing both a default setting in
> preferences along with a menu command (and key binding) to change the
> format at will seems fine to me.

there should be an option at the time of saving.

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#73539

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 02:59 +0000
Message-ID	<mh1q37$3dm$17@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#73516

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
190420152229056252nospamospam@nospam.invalid

> there should be an option at the time of saving.

Thanks for the insight into the minds of the Macintosh user.

It certainly wasn't intuitive that the 'Save As' dialog for the 
default text editor had no option for saving ASCII text.

However, as you noted, there was a preference setting, which
enabled that hidden option, so now the default text editor
can actually save ASCII text.

Thanks.

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#73555

From	Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date	2015-04-20 03:29 +0000
Message-ID	<slrnmj8smo.1eq.g.kreme@amelia.local>
In reply to	#73539

In message <mh1q37$3dm$17@news.albasani.net> 
  Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> 190420152229056252nospamospam@nospam.invalid

>> there should be an option at the time of saving.

> Thanks for the insight into the minds of the Macintosh user.

> It certainly wasn't intuitive that the 'Save As' dialog for the 
> default text editor had no option for saving ASCII text.

> However, as you noted, there was a preference setting, which
> enabled that hidden option, so now the default text editor
> can actually save ASCII text.

There is no hidden option. It's right there in the Format menu.


-- 
So here's us, on the raggedy edge. Don't push me. And I won't push you.

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#73615

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 06:08 +0000
Message-ID	<mh254k$i5o$25@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#73555

Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote in message
slrnmj8smo.1eq.g.kreme@amelia.local

> There is no hidden option. It's right there in the Format menu.

I belatedly realized that there are two places for saving a file to a 
desired format using the default text editor.

ASCII TEXT:
1. Format > Make Plain/Rich Text, File > Save

OTHER FORMATS:
2. File > Save > File Format > {a variety of formats}

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#73748

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-04-20 14:39 +0000
Message-ID	<cpkhd2Fg4haU17@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#73615

On 2015-04-20, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote in message
> slrnmj8smo.1eq.g.kreme@amelia.local
>
>> There is no hidden option. It's right there in the Format menu.
>
> I belatedly realized that there are two places for saving a file to a 
> desired format using the default text editor.
>
> ASCII TEXT:
> 1. Format > Make Plain/Rich Text, File > Save
>
> OTHER FORMATS:
> 2. File > Save > File Format > {a variety of formats}

Wrong. There's no such thing as File > Save > File Format > {a variety
of formats}.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#73654

From	jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date	2015-04-20 19:07 +1200
Message-ID	<1m36y0g.1m5g5y11nbk0vqN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to	#73539

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> 190420152229056252nospamospam@nospam.invalid
> 
> > there should be an option at the time of saving.
> 
> Thanks for the insight into the minds of the Macintosh user.
> 
> It certainly wasn't intuitive that the 'Save As' dialog for the 
> default text editor had no option for saving ASCII text.
> 
> However, as you noted, there was a preference setting, which
> enabled that hidden option, so now the default text editor
> can actually save ASCII text.
> 
> Thanks.

What is hidden? Switching between rich text and plain text on an ad hoc
basis is right there in the Format menu - how could you miss that? Are
you too foolish to quickly look through menus for a command?

Permanently setting the default type is in Preferences. Agin - are you
too foolish to look in the obvious places?

Simple, sensible, intuitive, and following decades of precedence where
defaults and rarely changed settings are in Preferences, while often
accessed settings and commands are in the menus.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#73670

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 07:30 +0000
Message-ID	<mh29v8$i5o$56@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#73654

jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote in message
1m36y0g.1m5g5y11nbk0vqN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz

> What is hidden? Switching between rich text and plain text on an ad hoc
> basis is right there in the Format menu

What part about "preferences" are you missing when you say that statement?
I am not a Mac expert but if I already know far more than you do, then 
Lord help you.

You seem to nitpick just so you can troll.

The preferences method is totally different than the two-menu method.
What part of that don't you understand?

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#73686

From	jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date	2015-04-20 20:13 +1200
Message-ID	<1m3717m.1leum8812gx8zrN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to	#73670

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote in message
> 1m36y0g.1m5g5y11nbk0vqN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz
> 
> > What is hidden? Switching between rich text and plain text on an ad hoc
> > basis is right there in the Format menu
> 
> What part about "preferences" are you missing when you say that statement?
> I am not a Mac expert but if I already know far more than you do, then
> Lord help you.
> 
> You seem to nitpick just so you can troll.
> 
> The preferences method is totally different than the two-menu method.
> What part of that don't you understand?

To quote the part of my post you snipped: "Permanently setting the
default type is in Preferences. Again - are you
too foolish to look in the obvious places?"

I cannot believe your obtuseness is genuine.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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csiph-web

How do mac users create a blank text file where you want it?

Contents

#73663

#73676

#73713

#73655

#73673

#73687

#73744

#73771

#73784

#73919

#73649

#73511

#73516

#73539

#73555

#73615

#73748

#73654

#73670

#73686