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Repetitive Screen Sleep

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  Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-03-20 18:02 -0700
    Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2015-03-21 16:40 +1100
      Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-03-20 23:02 -0700
        Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2015-03-21 21:47 +1100
          Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-03-21 10:17 -0700
    Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-21 13:37 +0000
      Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-03-21 10:19 -0700
      Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-03-29 07:26 -0700
        Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 14:52 +0000
          Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-03-29 08:14 -0700
            Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-03-29 08:20 -0700
            Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-03-29 08:22 -0700
            Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 15:55 +0000
              Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-03-29 09:24 -0700
                Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 17:14 +0000
                  Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-03-29 11:58 -0700
                    Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 19:11 +0000
                      Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-03-29 12:38 -0700
      Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-03-29 07:27 -0700
        Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 14:53 +0000
          Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-03-29 08:17 -0700
        Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-29 22:08 +0000
          Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-03-29 15:34 -0700
            Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-29 18:37 -0400
          Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-30 00:09 +0000
    Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2015-03-21 16:08 +0000
      Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-03-21 10:22 -0700
        Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2015-03-21 18:44 +0000
          Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-03-21 13:04 -0700
            Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2015-03-21 20:39 +0000
              Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-03-21 14:45 -0700
      Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-03-29 07:24 -0700
        Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2015-03-30 07:51 +1100
          Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-03-29 14:02 -0700
            Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-03-30 10:56 +1300
              Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-03-29 15:31 -0700
            Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2015-03-30 10:20 +1100
              Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-03-29 16:47 -0700
                Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2015-03-30 12:00 +1100
                Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-04-02 07:56 -0700
                  Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-02 22:01 +0000
                    Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-04-02 15:58 -0700
                      Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-03 03:29 +0000
                      Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-04-03 16:40 +1300
    Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-04-01 11:13 -0700
      Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2015-04-02 16:38 +1100
        Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-04-02 08:35 -0700
          Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2015-04-03 06:43 +1100
            Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-04-02 15:42 -0700
              Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-04-02 23:22 +0000
                Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-04-02 16:34 -0700
                  Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-04-02 23:51 +0000
                    Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-04-03 16:53 -0700
                      Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-04 03:29 +0000
                        Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-04-03 22:01 -0700
                          Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-04-04 12:26 -0700
                      Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-06-10 09:15 -0700
              Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2015-04-03 10:29 +1100
                Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-04-02 16:39 -0700
                  Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2015-04-03 10:54 +1100
                    Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-04-02 17:23 -0700
                      Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2015-04-03 12:43 +1100
    Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-04-18 08:08 -0700
      Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2015-04-19 09:24 +1000
    Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-06-12 14:17 -0700
      Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-06-14 19:08 -0700
        Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-06-21 13:01 -0700
          Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2015-06-21 13:36 -0700
            Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-06-21 16:59 -0700
              Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2015-06-21 20:06 -0700
                Re: Repetitive Screen Sleep gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-06-22 08:51 -0700

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#72576

In message <2015040207560632682-xxx@yyyzzz> 
  gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:
> On 2015-03-29 23:47:09 +0000, gtr said:

>> On 2015-03-29 23:20:55 +0000, dorayme said:
>> 
>>> It has no DVI/VGA output ports?
>> 
>> My late-2009 iMac has these ports:
>> 
>> 	http://grab.by/FZdA

> Wrong.  I found this picture online somewhere but the Mini-DVI port 
> shown is not actually on my iMac.  I have a completely different video 
> output port; this one is called a Mini-Display port.

No 2009 iMac had a mini-DVI, they all have mini display ports. The last
iMac with mini DVI was the early 2008. However, MDP to DVI adaptors are
easily acquired.

> It actually looks like this:

> 	http://grab.by/G6Xw

Both those pictures show a MDP port.


-- 
You know what they say about paradigms:  Shift happens.

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#72579

On 2015-04-02 22:01:34 +0000, Lewis said:

> No 2009 iMac had a mini-DVI, they all have mini display ports. The last
> iMac with mini DVI was the early 2008. However, MDP to DVI adaptors are
> easily acquired.

The mini-DVI port is on my 2005 machine.  It looks like this:

	http://tinyurl.com/pjdktsg

I woke up this morning and figured out the 2009 machine has a different 
port also called a "MiniDisplay" port in the literature.

>> 	http://grab.by/FZdA
>> 	http://grab.by/G6Xw
> 
> Both those pictures show a MDP port.

They show two different ports.  They *call* them both MDP ports.  
Perhaps there are two different size/shape configurations called MDP 
ports, and one looks identical to the mini-DVI port indicated above.

The minutae is irrelevant anyway: I had an MiniDVI port on the 2005 
iMac.  I have two adaptors for it.  My 2009 iMac had a MiniDisplay port 
which is different.  I bought an adaptor today.  Their primary job for 
the next few years will be living in the garage.  Then they'll be 
thrown away.

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#72594

In message <2015040215580739447-xxx@yyyzzz> 
  gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:
> On 2015-04-02 22:01:34 +0000, Lewis said:

>> No 2009 iMac had a mini-DVI, they all have mini display ports. The last
>> iMac with mini DVI was the early 2008. However, MDP to DVI adaptors are
>> easily acquired.

> The mini-DVI port is on my 2005 machine.  It looks like this:

> 	http://tinyurl.com/pjdktsg

> I woke up this morning and figured out the 2009 machine has a different 
> port also called a "MiniDisplay" port in the literature.

>>> 	http://grab.by/FZdA
>>> 	http://grab.by/G6Xw
>> 
>> Both those pictures show a MDP port.

> They show two different ports.  They *call* them both MDP ports.  

They are not two different ports. They are both mini display ports. As I
said, all 2009 iMacs had Display ports.

> Perhaps there are two different size/shape configurations called MDP 
> ports,

No.

> and one looks identical to the mini-DVI port indicated above.

Dunno about that, the picture is not clear enough, but the iMacs newer
than the early 2008 models all have MDP ports (or Thunderbolt, which
works as MDP as well).

-- 
If a pig loses its voice, is it disgruntled?

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#72597

gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:

> On 2015-04-02 22:01:34 +0000, Lewis said:
> 
> > No 2009 iMac had a mini-DVI, they all have mini display ports. The last
> > iMac with mini DVI was the early 2008. However, MDP to DVI adaptors are
> > easily acquired.
> 
> The mini-DVI port is on my 2005 machine.  It looks like this:
> 
>       http://tinyurl.com/pjdktsg
> 
> I woke up this morning and figured out the 2009 machine has a different
> port also called a "MiniDisplay" port in the literature.
> 
> >>    http://grab.by/FZdA
> >>    http://grab.by/G6Xw
> > 
> > Both those pictures show a MDP port.
> 
> They show two different ports.

No they don't. The pictures are at different scales, but they are both
Mini DisplayPort. (A little hard to tell with the second picture, which
has a smaller picture of the ports.) They are in two different
_positions_, depending on which model you have.

Here is an Apple support article with a better picture from a more
recent Mac:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204392

In this model, the ports in question are Thunderbolt, which is the same
connector as Mini DisplayPort (and is compatible with Mini DisplayPort
adapters).

The corresponding pictures from the support documents earlier iMac
models are too low resolution to see the port clearly in the ones I've
found from a quick look.

> They *call* them both MDP ports. Perhaps there are two different
> size/shape configurations called MDP ports, and one looks identical to the
> mini-DVI port indicated above.

There has only been one port called Mini DisplayPort. Wikipedia has a
good picture of it, from a MacBook Pro.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_DisplayPort

Judging from your pictures, the iMac has a rectangular cutout in its
metalwork, but the same shape and size connector inside the cutout.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#72527

How about this:

I'm working away when the screen begins it's repetitive screen 
blackouts.  I switch users to a different user; a clean admin account.  
A few minutes later, while I'm trying to create a semi-usable 
environment, but have still hardly done anything but twiddle with 
Spaces, and I get a blackout.

My only method of getting the screen to wake-up has been to go to the 
hot-corner for screen sleep and then move the mouse out of that corner, 
which gets wakes the screen.  In the account I'm using, there is no way 
to wake it up, since I'm in a default environment which has no such 
default option (to my knowledge).  Of course wiggling the mouse or 
hitting escape does nothing, since it's not really "sleep" per se.  So 
I hold the power button down to restart.

1) Have I successfully tested anything by booting up in normal mode, 
and then *switching* to another user after the malady arises again? Is 
it now safe to assume this malady is outside the context of user 
options and such?

During the reboot, with double chime, the grey-screen with Apple logo 
is present with a little progressive activity bar underneath.  
Somewhere during this phase the screen blacks out.  After the computer 
has about completed its desktop assembly and auto-load programs 
activity, I move my mouse into and back out of the "sleep screen" hot 
corner, and it wakes up.  This demonstrates to me that the screen is 
going black *before* user activity has fully initiated.

2) Bearing this in mind, is there any further utility in testing 
secondary users?  After all, the malady evidenced so very early.  Or is 
this/could this be some residual activity from the previous session?

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#72547

In article <2015040111134881598-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:

> How about this:
> 
> I'm working away when the screen begins it's repetitive screen 
> blackouts.  I switch users to a different user; a clean admin account.  
> A few minutes later, while I'm trying to create a semi-usable 
> environment, but have still hardly done anything but twiddle with 
> Spaces, and I get a blackout.
> 
> My only method of getting the screen to wake-up has been to go to the 
> hot-corner for screen sleep and then move the mouse out of that corner, 
> which gets wakes the screen.  In the account I'm using, there is no way 
> to wake it up, since I'm in a default environment which has no such 
> default option (to my knowledge).  Of course wiggling the mouse or 
> hitting escape does nothing, since it's not really "sleep" per se.  So 
> I hold the power button down to restart.
> 
> 1) Have I successfully tested anything by booting up in normal mode, 
> and then *switching* to another user after the malady arises again? Is 
> it now safe to assume this malady is outside the context of user 
> options and such?
> 
> During the reboot, with double chime, the grey-screen with Apple logo 
> is present with a little progressive activity bar underneath.  
> Somewhere during this phase the screen blacks out.  After the computer 
> has about completed its desktop assembly and auto-load programs 
> activity, I move my mouse into and back out of the "sleep screen" hot 
> corner, and it wakes up.  This demonstrates to me that the screen is 
> going black *before* user activity has fully initiated.
> 
> 2) Bearing this in mind, is there any further utility in testing 
> secondary users?  After all, the malady evidenced so very early.  Or is 
> this/could this be some residual activity from the previous session?

Can you start your Mac from a very clean just installed OS on an 
external drive (never touched or modified or personalised in any way) 
and then see if you get this behaviour?

-- 
dorayme

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#72564

On 2015-04-02 05:38:22 +0000, dorayme said:

> In article <2015040111134881598-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:
> 
>> How about this:
>> 
>> I'm working away when the screen begins it's repetitive screen
>> blackouts.  I switch users to a different user; a clean admin account.
>> A few minutes later, while I'm trying to create a semi-usable
>> environment, but have still hardly done anything but twiddle with
>> Spaces, and I get a blackout.
>> 
>> My only method of getting the screen to wake-up has been to go to the
>> hot-corner for screen sleep and then move the mouse out of that corner,
>> which gets wakes the screen.  In the account I'm using, there is no way
>> to wake it up, since I'm in a default environment which has no such
>> default option (to my knowledge).  Of course wiggling the mouse or
>> hitting escape does nothing, since it's not really "sleep" per se.  So
>> I hold the power button down to restart.
>> 
>> 1) Have I successfully tested anything by booting up in normal mode,
>> and then *switching* to another user after the malady arises again? Is
>> it now safe to assume this malady is outside the context of user
>> options and such?
>> 
>> During the reboot, with double chime, the grey-screen with Apple logo
>> is present with a little progressive activity bar underneath.
>> Somewhere during this phase the screen blacks out.  After the computer
>> has about completed its desktop assembly and auto-load programs
>> activity, I move my mouse into and back out of the "sleep screen" hot
>> corner, and it wakes up.  This demonstrates to me that the screen is
>> going black *before* user activity has fully initiated.
>> 
>> 2) Bearing this in mind, is there any further utility in testing
>> secondary users?  After all, the malady evidenced so very early.  Or is
>> this/could this be some residual activity from the previous session?
> 
> Can you start your Mac from a very clean just installed OS on an
> external drive (never touched or modified or personalised in any way)
> and then see if you get this behaviour?

No, I don't have the resources for that. But I may have evidenced the 
problem more directly later that day:

I attempted to reboot in safe mode and the display went to sleep before 
it finished the boot process, I couldn't operate the computer blind so 
rebooted.  I attempted to boot up in disk utility mode, but again it 
blacked out before the boot process was completed.

My conclusion is that if it can't even make it through the boot process 
without blacking out, the OS is not involved, it's the hardware.  Seem 
logical?

I got it booted up regular later in the day, changed the default login 
to the secondary user, and rebooted.  Then I successfully booted up as 
a secondary user, but it went black in short order.

My conclusion: The video hardware is damaged and needs to be repaired.

I dug out my old Mac-to-hdmi adaptor so I can test the operability of 
the computer without it's display.  But I found the adaptor for my old 
computer (the one I'm now working on), is a the mini-dvi and the 
late-2009 model uses a "mini displayport" instead. So I'll buy one of 
those today if I can find it.

If it works I'll buy a new 27-inch monitor and limp along with this 
computer until the new MacBook is available. 

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#72570

In article <2015040208351096401-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:

> On 2015-04-02 05:38:22 +0000, dorayme said:
> 
> > In article <2015040111134881598-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:
> > 
> >> How about this:
> >> 
> >> I'm working away when the screen begins it's repetitive screen
> >> blackouts.  I switch users to a different user; a clean admin account.
> >> A few minutes later, while I'm trying to create a semi-usable
> >> environment, but have still hardly done anything but twiddle with
> >> Spaces, and I get a blackout.
> >> 
> >> My only method of getting the screen to wake-up has been to go to the
> >> hot-corner for screen sleep and...

...

> > Can you start your Mac from a very clean just installed OS on an
> > external drive (never touched or modified or personalised in any way)
> > and then see if you get this behaviour?
> 
> No, I don't have the resources for that. 

Just a side-note on this. If you have an external disk not being used 
or you could spare, you can clean install any Mac OS that is supported 
by your computer. You can download various from Apple (I grabbed 
Mavericks when it was available and did this on a spare in case I ever 
needed it - eg. for later iTunes).


> But I may have evidenced the 
> problem more directly later that day:
> 
> I attempted to reboot in safe mode and the display went to sleep before 
> it finished the boot process, I couldn't operate the computer blind so 
> rebooted.  I attempted to boot up in disk utility mode, but again it 
> blacked out before the boot process was completed.
> 
> My conclusion is that if it can't even make it through the boot process 
> without blacking out, the OS is not involved, it's the hardware.  Seem 
> logical?
> 
> I got it booted up regular later in the day, changed the default login 
> to the secondary user, and rebooted.  Then I successfully booted up as 
> a secondary user, but it went black in short order.
> 

> My conclusion: The video hardware is damaged and needs to be repaired.
>
 
It may well be but I'd be cautious about this because something in 
your computer is controlling blackouts or sleep, video circuitry as 
evidenced from that you can wake it. If the circuitry is somehow 
independent of the screen and also would operate an external screen, 
then you have a problem. 

On some of my screens (apart from my SE30, can't remember just now 
ever having any Mac with built in screen) I think they had a bit of 
circuitry built in that could sleep them or 'power-save' them.  

> I dug out my old Mac-to-hdmi adaptor so I can test the operability of 
> the computer without it's display.  But I found the adaptor for my old 
> computer (the one I'm now working on), is a the mini-dvi and the 
> late-2009 model uses a "mini displayport" instead. So I'll buy one of 
> those today if I can find it.
> 
> If it works I'll buy a new 27-inch monitor and limp along with this 
> computer until the new MacBook is available. 

That won't be limping, it would be really fine, (I use my MB as a one 
mostly), just stick the iMac under the desk as if it is a tower. But 
first things first...

-- 
dorayme

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#72578

On 2015-04-02 19:43:02 +0000, dorayme said:

>> I attempted to reboot in safe mode and the display went to sleep before
>> it finished the boot process, I couldn't operate the computer blind so
>> rebooted.  I attempted to boot up in disk utility mode, but again it
>> blacked out before the boot process was completed.

[snip]

>> My conclusion: The video hardware is damaged and needs to be repaired.
> 
> It may well be but I'd be cautious about this because something in
> your computer is controlling blackouts or sleep, video circuitry as
> evidenced from that you can wake it. If the circuitry is somehow
> independent of the screen and also would operate an external screen,
> then you have a problem.

I can find no way to isolate it in the OS.  If it blacksout before the 
desktop even appears, I'm at a loss at what to do. I've tried almost 
every suggestion made with the exception of buying a new hard drive for 
yours: "OS on an external drive (never touched or modified or 
personalised in any way)".

> On some of my screens (apart from my SE30, can't remember just now
> ever having any Mac with built in screen) I think they had a bit of
> circuitry built in that could sleep them or 'power-save' them.

Again, it's nice to ponder it in the abstract, but I have no way of 
addressing it.

>> I dug out my old Mac-to-hdmi adaptor so I can test the operability of
>> the computer without it's display.  But I found the adaptor for my old
>> computer (the one I'm now working on), is a the mini-dvi and the
>> late-2009 model uses a "mini displayport" instead. So I'll buy one of
>> those today if I can find it.
>> 
>> If it works I'll buy a new 27-inch monitor and limp along with this
>> computer until the new MacBook is available.
> 
> That won't be limping, it would be really fine, (I use my MB as a one
> mostly), just stick the iMac under the desk as if it is a tower. But
> first things first...

I got the adaptor today, schlepped the wife's monitor in here. The 
machine, down overnight, has booted up and behaved all afternoon.  I 
note that when I use the hot corner ("put display to sleep") it puts 
the second monitor to sleep as well.  Of course if evertime the base 
computer sleeps, if the secondary does as well--I'm screwed.

After discussing how underpowered the new Macbook will be, I've settled 
on a 15-inch MacBook Pro, 2.5Ghz with extra memory and the 1T flash 
drive.  That's my current approach.

Thanks for listening to my tale of woe.  I sure wish I could make this 
machine last another year or two, it otherwise has zero issues.

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#72580

On 2015-04-02, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:
>
> I can find no way to isolate it in the OS.  If it blacksout before the 
> desktop even appears, I'm at a loss at what to do. I've tried almost 
> every suggestion made with the exception of buying a new hard drive for 
> yours: "OS on an external drive (never touched or modified or 
> personalised in any way)".

You don't have a USB stick you could put the installer on? If the
problem happens while booted on the pristine installer image, it's
likely a hardware issue and not your system install.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#72582

On 2015-04-02 23:22:46 +0000, Jolly Roger said:

> On 2015-04-02, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:
>> 
>> I can find no way to isolate it in the OS.  If it blacksout before the
>> desktop even appears, I'm at a loss at what to do. I've tried almost
>> every suggestion made with the exception of buying a new hard drive for
>> yours: "OS on an external drive (never touched or modified or
>> personalised in any way)".
> 
> You don't have a USB stick you could put the installer on? If the
> problem happens while booted on the pristine installer image, it's
> likely a hardware issue and not your system install.

I'm unsure, I have 8- and 16-gig thumbdrives.  If that will do, please 
point me to where I can install same, and I'll damn sure give it a try.

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#72584

On 2015-04-02, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:
> On 2015-04-02 23:22:46 +0000, Jolly Roger said:
>
>> On 2015-04-02, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I can find no way to isolate it in the OS.  If it blacksout before the
>>> desktop even appears, I'm at a loss at what to do. I've tried almost
>>> every suggestion made with the exception of buying a new hard drive for
>>> yours: "OS on an external drive (never touched or modified or
>>> personalised in any way)".
>> 
>> You don't have a USB stick you could put the installer on? If the
>> problem happens while booted on the pristine installer image, it's
>> likely a hardware issue and not your system install.
>
> I'm unsure, I have 8- and 16-gig thumbdrives.  If that will do, please 
> point me to where I can install same, and I'll damn sure give it a try.

8 GB will do. Here you go:

<http://www.macworld.com/article/2367748/how-to-make-a-bootable-os-x-10-10-yosemite-install-drive.html>

Having a USB stick handy is really useful for this type of thing.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#72626

On 2015-04-02 23:51:07 +0000, Jolly Roger said:

> On 2015-04-02, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:
>> On 2015-04-02 23:22:46 +0000, Jolly Roger said:
>> 
>>> On 2015-04-02, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I can find no way to isolate it in the OS.  If it blacksout before the
>>>> desktop even appears, I'm at a loss at what to do. I've tried almost
>>>> every suggestion made with the exception of buying a new hard drive for
>>>> yours: "OS on an external drive (never touched or modified or
>>>> personalised in any way)".
>>> 
>>> You don't have a USB stick you could put the installer on? If the
>>> problem happens while booted on the pristine installer image, it's
>>> likely a hardware issue and not your system install.
>> 
>> I'm unsure, I have 8- and 16-gig thumbdrives.  If that will do, please
>> point me to where I can install same, and I'll damn sure give it a try.
> 
> 8 GB will do. Here you go:
> 
> <http://www.macworld.com/article/2367748/how-to-make-a-bootable-os-x-10-10-yosemite-install-drive.html> 
> 
> 
> Having a USB stick handy is really useful for this type of thing.

Okay then, yesterday's sad story: I had turned the computer off over 
night, booted in the morning to no misery at all.  Went to a store and 
got an appropriate video adapter for a second monitor and hooked them 
up.  Played around most of the day, it never blacked out.  Today I went 
and got a new thumbdrive (it turned out all my others were occupied).  
I formatted it, installed the Yosemite installer.  Now done.

I misunderstood your recommendation and was assuming I'd have a 
minimual operating environment to while away the hours waiting for 
aberrations.  I see it has only the stuff to boot to a place where it 
can install the OS.  This would have indeed been handy when the system 
was in full-blown refusal mode.  Ah well; I'm ready the next time 
around.

In the interim, assuming my current box was fatally screwed, I began 
acclimating to the idea of buying a new one. I've now picked out the 
Macbook Pro 15-inch, 2.5GHz, machine with 16G memory and 1T storage.  
In the meantime, if my current box will behave till the end of the 
year, maybe they'll have significant changes for these machines.  Seems 
that this one was first on the market in mid-2012 which was offputting, 
but I see it has an i7, retina display and flash storage; so not really 
architecturally "old".  Any viewpoint on my selection?

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#72629

In message <2015040316535597489-xxx@yyyzzz> 
  gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:
> In the interim, assuming my current box was fatally screwed, I began 
> acclimating to the idea of buying a new one. I've now picked out the 
> Macbook Pro 15-inch, 2.5GHz, machine with 16G memory and 1T storage.  

I would not (and in fact did not) buy a 15" right now. New quadcores are
coming soon. I figure there will probably be new 15" machines by the end
of June.

Otoh, I am really loving this 13" MBP.

8:29 on battery and an estimate of 7:06 battery left.

That will plummet if I launch Chrome.


-- 
Han : This is not going to work. Luke: Why didn't you say so before?
Han : I did say so before!

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#72631

On 2015-04-04 03:29:26 +0000, Lewis said:

> In message <2015040316535597489-xxx@yyyzzz>
>   gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:
>> In the interim, assuming my current box was fatally screwed, I began
>> acclimating to the idea of buying a new one. I've now picked out the
>> Macbook Pro 15-inch, 2.5GHz, machine with 16G memory and 1T storage.
> 
> I would not (and in fact did not) buy a 15" right now. New quadcores are
> coming soon. I figure there will probably be new 15" machines by the end
> of June.

That's for the projection.  I hope my box can survive till then.

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#72645

On 2015-04-04 05:01:59 +0000, gtr said:

> On 2015-04-04 03:29:26 +0000, Lewis said:
> 
>> In message <2015040316535597489-xxx@yyyzzz>
>> gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:
>>> In the interim, assuming my current box was fatally screwed, I began
>>> acclimating to the idea of buying a new one. I've now picked out the
>>> Macbook Pro 15-inch, 2.5GHz, machine with 16G memory and 1T storage.
>> 
>> I would not (and in fact did not) buy a 15" right now. New quadcores are
>> coming soon. I figure there will probably be new 15" machines by the end
>> of June.
> 
> That's for the projection.  I hope my box can survive till then.

w/b "Thanks for the projection."

In fact thanks to you all; Jolly Roger, Dorayme, Kiraly and you for 
every bit of input. It's inexplicably working like magic again, and I 
have a couple of aproaches to analysis at the ready should it reappear. 
 But things are ducky.

Even if duckiness doesn't continue, I have a back-up machine that will 
get me through to June at the very least and hopefully all the way up 
to whenever Apple really DOES the new 15" machines! ;-)

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#76464

On 2015-04-03 23:53:55 +0000, gtr said:

[ Operating on a very old iMac, Late 2006, under OS 10.7.5.  It's 
amazing how much the OS has changed over these years.

> On 2015-04-02 23:51:07 +0000, Jolly Roger said:
>>>> 
>>>> You don't have a USB stick you could put the installer on? If the
>>>> problem happens while booted on the pristine installer image, it's
>>>> likely a hardware issue and not your system install.

> I misunderstood your recommendation and was assuming I'd have a 
> minimual operating environment to while away the hours waiting for 
> aberrations.  I see it has only the stuff to boot to a place where it 
> can install the OS.  This would have indeed been handy when the system 
> was in full-blown refusal mode.  Ah well; I'm ready the next time 
> around.

It sure took a long time to get a "next time around".  The computer has 
worked without issue for over two months.  Then it began the same exact 
behavior.  I booted via the Yosemite Installation stick I had created 
in April.  The screen blacked out.  No outboard hardware (drives, USB 
stuff) were attached.

I also booted in a clean admin account.  It blacked-out/"slept" 
immediately and repeatedly, as before.

Yesterday I dropped the machine off at a local Apple fixer.

We shall see.

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#72581

In article <2015040215422654279-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:

> On 2015-04-02 19:43:02 +0000, dorayme said:
> 
> >> I attempted to reboot in safe mode and the display went to sleep before
> >> it finished the boot process, I couldn't operate the computer blind so
> >> rebooted.  I attempted to boot up in disk utility mode, but again it
> >> blacked out before the boot process was completed.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> >> My conclusion: The video hardware is damaged and needs to be repaired.
> > 
> > It may well be but I'd be cautious about this because something in
> > your computer is controlling blackouts or sleep, video circuitry as
> > evidenced from that you can wake it. If the circuitry is somehow
> > independent of the screen and also would operate an external screen,
> > then you have a problem.
> 
> I can find no way to isolate it in the OS.  If it blacksout before the 
> desktop even appears, I'm at a loss at what to do. I've tried almost 
> every suggestion made with the exception of buying a new hard drive for 
> yours: "OS on an external drive (never touched or modified or 
> personalised in any way)".
>

Isolation by indirect deduction somehow! <g> 

Anyway, if it blacks out because of some trigger in the circuitry of 
the Mac (unlike say something in the screen itself as in some 
power-saving things in stand-alone monitors), this should become 
evident when you connect an external (unless you are unlucky enough to 
have an external with crook power-save). 

About external drives, if you would like to visit Sydney, I would 
happily lend or even give you one! They are very very useful things to 
have gtr, and cheap as chips (usb ones that run off the power from the 
usb). Not the least advantage apart from diagnostics like now, but use 
in backups that are much more independent of your machine.
 
> > On some of my screens (apart from my SE30, can't remember just now
> > ever having any Mac with built in screen) I think they had a bit of
> > circuitry built in that could sleep them or 'power-save' them.
> 
> Again, it's nice to ponder it in the abstract, but I have no way of 
> addressing it.
> 
...

> I got the adaptor today, schlepped the wife's monitor in here. The 
> machine, down overnight, has booted up and behaved all afternoon.  I 
> note that when I use the hot corner ("put display to sleep") it puts 
> the second monitor to sleep as well. 

Yes, that is to be expected and *useful* of course.

...

Remember you have software to *arrange* the monitors when more than 
one. These are variables that can be played with. You never know! 
Maybe configure the both monitors as one desktop and get the menus and 
things onto the secondary. Whatever gremlins are in your system might 
then start worrying that you mean business and are not going to stop, 
it will worry them, they will get scared and maybe lie real low and 
you will have defeated them morally instead of just technically. 

> After discussing how underpowered the new Macbook will be, I've settled 
> on a 15-inch MacBook Pro, 2.5Ghz with extra memory and the 1T flash 
> drive.  That's my current approach.
> 
> Thanks for listening to my tale of woe.  I sure wish I could make this 
> machine last another year or two, it otherwise has zero issues.

-- 
dorayme

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#72583

On 2015-04-02 23:29:54 +0000, dorayme said:

> About external drives, if you would like to visit Sydney, I would
> happily lend or even give you one! They are very very useful things to
> have gtr, and cheap as chips (usb ones that run off the power from the
> usb). Not the least advantage apart from diagnostics like now, but use
> in backups that are much more independent of your machine.

I thought I had plenty but two apparently croaked while sitting in the 
close waiting for an emergency. The other three are dedicated to some 
task or other.  Thanks for the offer, but that is surely a bridge too 
far.

> Remember you have software to *arrange* the monitors when more than
> one.

Of course, I just don't how they'll work, and wait patiently, most of 
the day, for it took start going to hell.  As usual, this time in 
reverse, it's been obstinate.

How about caches.  I have some an app called Cache Out X, about which I 
know nothing.  And I wonder if cached crapola might be involved.  On 
the other hand I'm unsure what the net result of "cleaning" these 
caches is in terms of gotcha's. 

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#72585

In article <2015040216393382512-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:

> On 2015-04-02 23:29:54 +0000, dorayme said:
> 
> > About external drives, if you would like to visit Sydney, I would
> > happily lend or even give you one! They are very very useful things to
> > have gtr, and cheap as chips (usb ones that run off the power from the
> > usb). Not the least advantage apart from diagnostics like now, but use
> > in backups that are much more independent of your machine.
> 
> I thought I had plenty but two apparently croaked while sitting in the 
> close waiting for an emergency. The other three are dedicated to some 
> task or other.  Thanks for the offer, but that is surely a bridge too 
> far.
>

You could back up one of the many you have if you have some spare 
space on any other one, and then wipe it clean with Disk Utility and 
install a new OS on it to try it. Just some thoughts.

 
> > Remember you have software to *arrange* the monitors when more than
> > one.
> 
> Of course, I just don't how they'll work, and wait patiently, most of 
> the day, for it took start going to hell.  As usual, this time in 
> reverse, it's been obstinate.
> 
> How about caches.  I have some an app called Cache Out X, about which I 
> know nothing.  And I wonder if cached crapola might be involved.  On 
> the other hand I'm unsure what the net result of "cleaning" these 
> caches is in terms of gotcha's. 

If I were you, I would make it a priority to get a usb drive with a 
brand new OS on it and no extra apps or anything at all, no user 
extras. You can download an OS and load it onto the drive very easily, 
just choose that external when the choice comes up on the installer.

-- 
dorayme

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