Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #71655 > unrolled thread

Searching for "fraction slash"

Back to article view | Back to comp.sys.mac.system

Contents

  Searching for "fraction slash" isw <isw@witzend.com> - 2015-03-19 20:37 -0700
    Re: Searching for "fraction slash" Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-20 18:22 +1200
      Re: Searching for "fraction slash" isw <isw@witzend.com> - 2015-03-20 10:59 -0700
    Re: Searching for "fraction slash" Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2015-03-19 22:36 -0700
    Re: Searching for "fraction slash" Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-20 13:48 +0000
      Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved isw <isw@witzend.com> - 2015-03-20 15:08 -0700
        Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2015-03-20 16:40 -0700
          Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-21 13:19 +1200
            Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2015-03-20 18:08 -0700
          Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved isw <isw@witzend.com> - 2015-03-20 20:21 -0700
        Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-21 00:03 +0000
          Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved isw <isw@witzend.com> - 2015-03-20 20:20 -0700
            Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-21 12:48 +0000
              Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved isw <isw@witzend.com> - 2015-03-21 21:47 -0700
                Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-22 18:00 +1200
                Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 12:15 +0000
                  Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-22 08:39 -0700
                    Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 15:47 +0000
                  Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 02:54 +0000
                    Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-03-23 16:51 +1300
                      Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-22 21:42 -0700
                      Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 13:25 +0000
                    Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 13:23 +0000
                  Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved isw <isw@witzend.com> - 2015-03-22 21:27 -0700
        Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-21 13:19 +1200
          Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved isw <isw@witzend.com> - 2015-03-20 20:16 -0700
            Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-21 12:40 +0000
            Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-22 09:57 +1200
              Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved isw <isw@witzend.com> - 2015-03-21 22:09 -0700
                Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-22 19:19 +1200

Page 2 of 2 — ← Prev page 1 [2]

#71922 — Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved

In article <1m1qwfx.y41tmfoty87zN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>, David Empson
<dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:

> It therefore looks like migration to Mavericks replaced the old default
> substitutions with the new defaults (but perhaps upgrading doesn't,
> which is why Lewis and Michelle still have them?).

Well, I did upgrade rather than migrate.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#71925 — Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved

On 2015-03-23, David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>
>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> was all,
>> like:
>> 
>>> There is no "Language & Text" panel in Mac OS X 10.10. There is a
>>> "Language & Region", but that panel has no "Text" tab in it. It does
>>> have an "Advanced" button where you can set the formats for numbers,
>>> dates, and times. But there is nothing about fraction substitution in
>>> there that I can see:
>> 
>> They moved it (very recently) to Keyboard -> text. It might be as
>> recently as the 10.10.3 beta, in fact, but I think they moved it earlier
>> than that. Can't check 10.10.2 right now.
>
> The substitutions were in Keyboard > Text starting in 10.9 (Mavericks).
> Just confirmed on my 10.9.5 system. They were in Language & Text > Text
> for 10.8.5 and earlier.

Sounds about right. Thanks.

> A fresh install of Mavericks or Yosemite doesn't have them by default
> (but Mountain Lion does). The new defaults have just an "omw" for "On my
> way!", same as the iPhone/iPad.
>
> My current Yosemite system also has only the "omw" substitution, which I
> didn't create so it presumably came from the new defaults. This system
> was an upgrade from Mavericks, which was set up by migrating from my
> previous computer which had been running Mountain Lion. I don't recall
> offhand whether I had ever modified the previous default substituations,
> but I expect I hadn't, beyond disabling most of them.
>
> I do recall having the "omw" substitution rule while I was running
> Mavericks.
>
> It therefore looks like migration to Mavericks replaced the old default
> substitutions with the new defaults (but perhaps upgrading doesn't,
> which is why Lewis and Michelle still have them?).
>
> I don't have enough evidence to judge what happened to any custom
> substitution rules in a migration to Mavericks or Yosemite.

Very interesting. At any rate, I say good riddance to them!

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#71924 — Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved

On 2015-03-23, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> Okay, so one time? In band camp? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> was all, like:
>
>> There is no "Language & Text" panel in Mac OS X 10.10. There is a
>> "Language & Region", but that panel has no "Text" tab in it. It does
>> have an "Advanced" button where you can set the formats for numbers,
>> dates, and times. But there is nothing about fraction substitution in
>> there that I can see:
>
> They moved it (very recently) to Keyboard -> text. It might be as
> recently as the 10.10.3 beta, in fact, but I think they moved it earlier
> than that. Can't check 10.10.2 right now.

Yep. It makes better sense to me to have the replacement list in the
Keyboard pane.

>> <http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=20u5nnk&s=8>
>
>> This leads me to believe you are using an old version of Mac OS X -
>> perhaps 10.6. When I look at the system preferences in 10.6, I do see a
>> "Language & Text" system preference panel. And in the "Text" tab, I see
>> the same substitutions panel that now lives in the Keyboard panel in
>> 10.10, where I do see fractions listed in the text substitution list:
>
>> <http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2z4fx21&s=8>
>
> Very odd. You must have deleted them at some point in the past:
>
><https://www.dropbox.com/s/hxog9cojszmo5i5/Screenshot%202015-03-22%2020.54.55.PNG?dl=0>

I think I recall seeing them and saying to myself, "I can't think of a
time when I would like Unicode fractions and other symbols to be
injected into what I am typing", and removed them.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#71921 — Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved

In article <cn7q39Fpul6U1@mid.individual.net>,
 Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2015-03-22, isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:
> > In article <cn57lpF64i7U2@mid.individual.net>,
> >  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2015-03-21, isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:
> >> > In article <cn3qqpFqcqnU1@mid.individual.net>,
> >> >  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> >> >> On 2015-03-20, isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> > Interestingly, the Language & Text/Text option to automatically 
> >> >> > replace 
> >> >> > "big" fractions with "small" ones (multiple characters with a single 
> >> >> > one) *does not work* if the fraction uses a fraction slash.
> >> >> 
> >> >> That makes sense.
> >> >
> >> > I hope you're making a funny. I just did a bug report to Apple about it.
> >> 
> >> I had assumed you were making reference to the System Preferences >
> >> Keyboard > Text panel, where you can enter your own substitutions; but
> >> now after re-reading, it seems like there is a specific setting
> >> somewhere to replace fractions. I don't see that option in this
> >> panel on my Mac Pro running 10.10 though:
> >> 
> >> <http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=20u5nnk&s=8>
> >> 
> >> What am I missing?
> >
> > You're looking in the wrong place. Try System Preferences/Language & 
> > Text/Text.
> 
> I think I'm looking in the right place for text substitutions.
> 
> There is no "Language & Text" panel in Mac OS X 10.10. There is a
> "Language & Region", but that panel has no "Text" tab in it. It does
> have an "Advanced" button where you can set the formats for numbers,
> dates, and times. But there is nothing about fraction substitution in
> there that I can see:
> 
> <http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=j675e1&s=8>
> 
> <http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2ex0lz5&s=8>
> 
> The only panel that deals with substitution is the Keyboard system
> preference panel I mentioned earlier - and there are no fractions listed
> in it:
> 
> <http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=20u5nnk&s=8>
> 
> This leads me to believe you are using an old version of Mac OS X -
> perhaps 10.6.

10.8 in fact, but who's counting?

Isaac

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#71703 — Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved

In article <isw-E13919.15083720032015@news-roam.garlic.com>, isw
<isw@witzend.com> wrote:
> In article <cn2mppFg7j0U6@mid.individual.net>,
>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> > 
> > On 2015-03-20, isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:
> > 
> > [Followups set to alt.comp.lang.applescript]
> 
> I thought about that, but decided that the problem concerning the 
> "fraction slash" was more of a global issue rather than something that 
> just concerned AppleScript, since even TextEdit had problems with it 
> (and see the last two paragraphs).
> 
> > TextEdit displays the fractions as overlapping, but it is not possible 
> > to select only the slash -- if you put the cursor over the slash of 
> > "1/2" and move it one way you select the "1", and the other you select 
> > the "2", but you can't highlight only the slash. Odd.
> 
> So after I posted my question, I fiddled around some more with TextEdit 
> and discovered that, while it is not possible to select only the 
> fraction slash character, it *is* possible to place the cursor ahead of 
> the entire fraction ("1/2") and then to selectively delete both the 
> numerals, leaving the fraction slash standing alone. Go figure.
> 
> That was the clue I needed. I did the same thing, copying the entire 
> fraction, pasting it into the proper part of my AppleScript, and then 
> deleting both the numerals.
> 
> Jolly's solution looks good, but my whole AppleScript is built around a 
> *long* list of text replacement operations, so isolating the character 
> gave me a solution that involved adding only one short line to the 
> script.
> 
> But an underlying problem is that the Mac badly renders text which 
> includes a fraction slash -- at least in the typefaces I use for my 
> recipe collection. If it hadn't looked so bad, I wouldn't haven't cared 
> (or even noticed) that the character was not just an ordinary slash.
> 
> Interestingly, the Language & Text/Text option to automatically replace 
> "big" fractions with "small" ones (multiple characters with a single 
> one) *does not work* if the fraction uses a fraction slash.

You can of course add your own automatic replacement option to work
with the fraction slash.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#71712 — Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved

In article <210320151319109752%YourName@YourISP.com>,
 Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

--snip--

> > Interestingly, the Language & Text/Text option to automatically replace 
> > "big" fractions with "small" ones (multiple characters with a single 
> > one) *does not work* if the fraction uses a fraction slash.
> 
> You can of course add your own automatic replacement option to work
> with the fraction slash.

Well, sure, but I do think it's a bit ironic that a system function that 
is presumably intended to make fractions "look better" fails completely 
if the "proper" type of slash is used.

Isaac

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#71724 — Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved

On 2015-03-21, isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:
> In article <210320151319109752%YourName@YourISP.com>,
>  Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>
> --snip--
>
>> > Interestingly, the Language & Text/Text option to automatically replace 
>> > "big" fractions with "small" ones (multiple characters with a single 
>> > one) *does not work* if the fraction uses a fraction slash.
>> 
>> You can of course add your own automatic replacement option to work
>> with the fraction slash.
>
> Well, sure, but I do think it's a bit ironic that a system function that 
> is presumably intended to make fractions "look better" fails completely 
> if the "proper" type of slash is used.

Your presumption is wrong. The system function in question (System
Preferences > Keyboard > Text replacement list is a simple text
replacement function,and not a comprehensive fraction improvement
function. If you want it to handle more cases, you have to add those to
the list.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#71762 — Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved

In article <isw-2E469B.20163420032015@news-roam.garlic.com>, isw
<isw@witzend.com> wrote:
> In article <210320151319109752%YourName@YourISP.com>,
> > >
> > > Interestingly, the Language & Text/Text option to automatically replace 
> > > "big" fractions with "small" ones (multiple characters with a single 
> > > one) *does not work* if the fraction uses a fraction slash.
> > 
> > You can of course add your own automatic replacement option to work
> > with the fraction slash.
> 
> Well, sure, but I do think it's a bit ironic that a system function that 
> is presumably intended to make fractions "look better" fails completely 
> if the "proper" type of slash is used.

Not really - most people don't even know there is a different slash,
let alone use it, so why bother wasting system time looking for
something that's extremely rarely going to be typed (especially since
in many fonts it probably doesn't even look any different, if it exists
at all).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#71781 — Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved

In article <220320150957100852%YourName@YourISP.com>,
 Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> In article <isw-2E469B.20163420032015@news-roam.garlic.com>, isw
> <isw@witzend.com> wrote:
> > In article <210320151319109752%YourName@YourISP.com>,
> > > >
> > > > Interestingly, the Language & Text/Text option to automatically replace 
> > > > "big" fractions with "small" ones (multiple characters with a single 
> > > > one) *does not work* if the fraction uses a fraction slash.
> > > 
> > > You can of course add your own automatic replacement option to work
> > > with the fraction slash.
> > 
> > Well, sure, but I do think it's a bit ironic that a system function that 
> > is presumably intended to make fractions "look better" fails completely 
> > if the "proper" type of slash is used.
> 
> Not really - most people don't even know there is a different slash,
> let alone use it, so why bother wasting system time looking for
> something that's extremely rarely going to be typed (especially since
> in many fonts it probably doesn't even look any different, if it exists
> at all).

It's an option that replaces a large version of a fraction composed of 
three glyphs with a smaller, single one. Presumably, someone would 
select that system option because they prefer the appearance of the 
smaller version. Except that if the large fraction is typed "properly" 
(with a fraction slash), then the replacement fails.

There has been, for years (starting in about 1984), a slow but 
progressive tendency to move away from "typewriter" style text 
formatting towards something more like what a typesetter would produce. 
The use of the faction slash, along with a number of other character 
shapes not available on a typewriter -- en dash and em dash, a large 
variety of diacritical marks, etc., can be expected to continue to 
increase.

But it takes a long time. There are still lots of folks who habitually 
hit the space bar twice between sentences.

Isaac

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#71783 — Re: Searching for "fraction slash" -- solved

In article <isw-8940AB.22090621032015@news-roam.garlic.com>, isw
<isw@witzend.com> wrote:
> In article <220320150957100852%YourName@YourISP.com>,
>  Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> > In article <isw-2E469B.20163420032015@news-roam.garlic.com>, isw
> > <isw@witzend.com> wrote:
> > > In article <210320151319109752%YourName@YourISP.com>,
> > > > >
> > > > > Interestingly, the Language & Text/Text option to automatically
> > > > > replace 
> > > > > "big" fractions with "small" ones (multiple characters with a single 
> > > > > one) *does not work* if the fraction uses a fraction slash.
> > > > 
> > > > You can of course add your own automatic replacement option to work
> > > > with the fraction slash.
> > > 
> > > Well, sure, but I do think it's a bit ironic that a system function that 
> > > is presumably intended to make fractions "look better" fails completely 
> > > if the "proper" type of slash is used.
> > 
> > Not really - most people don't even know there is a different slash,
> > let alone use it, so why bother wasting system time looking for
> > something that's extremely rarely going to be typed (especially since
> > in many fonts it probably doesn't even look any different, if it exists
> > at all).
> 
> It's an option that replaces a large version of a fraction composed of 
> three glyphs with a smaller, single one. Presumably, someone would 
> select that system option because they prefer the appearance of the 
> smaller version. Except that if the large fraction is typed "properly" 
> (with a fraction slash), then the replacement fails.

Most people don't know about a "fraction slash", so they simply type
fractions using the normal slash. Mac OS X has the option to replace a
fraction typed that way with a proper fraction character for those who
want it to do so.

The miniscule number of people who know about the fraction slash can
add their own replacement, but it's a bit worthless since it's a little
quicker to simply use a normal slash anyway. When they type a "fraction
slash" it's because that's what they want and don't want it replaced.



> There has been, for years (starting in about 1984), a slow but 
> progressive tendency to move away from "typewriter" style text 
> formatting towards something more like what a typesetter would produce. 
> The use of the faction slash, along with a number of other character 
> shapes not available on a typewriter -- en dash and em dash, a large 
> variety of diacritical marks, etc., can be expected to continue to 
> increase.

Maybe, but the vast majority of people simply don't know about them or
use them ... nor do they really care.

In some cases it's like the fraction replacement above. Someone types a
normal hyphen / minus sign and the software automatically replaces it
with a longer dash. The person typing doesn't even know or care that is
has been replaced.



> But it takes a long time. There are still lots of folks who habitually 
> hit the space bar twice between sentences.

Yep, replacing double-spaces with a single space is usually the first
task in any documents I receive to work with.

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Page 2 of 2 — ← Prev page 1 [2]

Back to top | Article view | comp.sys.mac.system

csiph-web