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Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies

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  Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-20 17:03 -0700
    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-20 20:28 -0400
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 14:38 +1100
    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 13:55 +1100
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-20 20:59 -0700
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 16:51 +1100
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-21 07:53 -0700
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:19 +1100
    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-03-21 09:57 +0000
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-21 09:06 -0400
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-21 13:11 -0400
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:51 +1100
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-21 15:10 -0400
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 06:24 +1100
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-21 17:49 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-21 21:10 -0400
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:18 +0000
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-21 10:57 -0400
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-21 15:01 +0000
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2015-03-21 16:20 +0000
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-21 12:38 -0400
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2015-03-21 17:18 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:55 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-21 17:15 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:04 +0000
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 10:11 -0400
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 14:16 +0000
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-22 22:29 +0000
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-21 13:40 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:32 +1100
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-21 15:08 -0700
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:02 +0000
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-21 17:46 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:19 +0000
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-22 09:52 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 14:12 +0000
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 05:00 +1100
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-22 18:58 -0400
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 23:32 +0000
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 20:30 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 01:20 +0000
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 21:10 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-23 09:47 -0500
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-22 22:48 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 02:50 +0000
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 13:54 +1100
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 03:31 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-23 14:20 -0400
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 05:53 +1100
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 19:05 +0000
                          Apple Watch Kills; was: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2015-03-24 10:20 -0700
                            Re: Apple Watch Kills; was: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-24 19:06 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 02:35 +0000
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:22 +1100
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-21 17:15 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 12:17 +1100
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-21 13:03 -0400
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:44 +1100
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-03-21 21:57 +0000
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:14 +0000
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 13:54 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 05:14 +1100
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 14:38 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 05:54 +1100
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 15:09 -0400
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 06:24 +1100
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 17:15 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 09:00 +1100
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 20:06 -0400
                            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 11:24 +1100
                              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 21:10 -0400
                                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:43 +1100
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 02:33 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 23:26 +0000
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 20:28 -0400
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-22 20:30 -0400
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 21:06 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:40 +1100
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 01:12 +0000
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 21:23 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-22 21:26 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 01:46 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:52 +1100
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 22:22 -0400
                            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 13:49 +1100
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 03:25 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-23 13:33 -0400
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-23 14:08 -0400
                            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-23 14:09 -0400
                            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 18:33 +0000
                            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 05:49 +1100
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:37 +1100
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 22:15 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 02:29 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 13:43 +1100
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 03:18 +0000
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 13:30 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 05:44 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-23 15:04 -0400
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-23 15:16 -0400
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 19:33 +0000
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-23 15:51 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 19:59 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 07:07 +1100
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-23 16:36 -0400
                            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 08:37 +1100
                            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 21:45 +0000
                            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-03-24 10:51 +1300
                              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-23 18:43 -0400
                                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 22:56 +0000
                                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 10:29 +1100
                                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-24 05:36 +0000
                              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-24 01:47 -0400
                                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 19:44 +1100
                                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-24 15:04 +0000
                            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-24 05:35 +0000
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 07:02 +1100
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 23:05 +0000
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 20:19 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 00:36 +0000
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 21:18 -0400
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 01:36 +0000
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 22:12 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-22 22:20 -0400
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 02:30 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 02:24 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 13:39 +1100
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2015-03-22 20:05 -0700
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 23:46 -0400
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 15:00 +1100
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 14:52 +1100
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-23 00:10 -0400
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 18:58 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 13:41 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 18:52 +0000
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:48 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:33 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 03:13 +0000
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 02:29 +0000
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:59 -0400
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies News <News@Group.Post> - 2015-03-23 13:14 -0400
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-22 01:39 +0000
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 00:52 -0400
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 02:11 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 17:44 +1100
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-22 06:22 +0000
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 02:40 -0400
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-22 22:17 +0000
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 17:28 +1100
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 02:47 -0400
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 17:56 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 04:09 -0400
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 19:14 +1100
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 04:47 -0400
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 20:40 +1100
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-22 08:49 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:38 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 04:38 +1100
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-22 22:23 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 20:13 -0400
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:30 +1100
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 03:11 +0000
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-22 08:43 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:36 +0000
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 04:31 +1100
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:24 +0000
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 14:04 -0400
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 05:25 +1100
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 23:15 +0000
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 02:40 +0000
    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-21 09:02 -0400
    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-21 11:43 -0500
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:10 +0000
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-22 10:33 -0500
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 15:48 +0000

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#71941

On 3/23/2015 12:59 PM, D.F. Manno wrote:
> In article <550f01cf$0$58829$c3e8da3$88b277c5@news.astraweb.com>,
>   JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>
>> So Apple Pay is like a Pinto.
>

Corvair...

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#71776

Okay, so one time? In band camp? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> was all, like:
> On 2015-03-21, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>><http://tidbits.com/article/15504>

> Given that fraud via Apple Pay is approx 100 times as prevalent as fraud
> via other channels from the same banks, it seems not unreasonable to assign
> the fault to Apple.

Stop being idiotic.

Fact: ONLY the bank can decide if a card is added to Apple Pay. ONLY the
bank can decide if the card is valid or risky. ONLY the bank can decide
how much verification is needed. ONLY. The. Bank.

-- 
http://2blog.kreme.com
I am by nature made for my own good, not my own evil

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#71779

On 15-03-21 21:39, Lewis wrote:

> Fact: ONLY the bank can decide if a card is added to Apple Pay. ONLY the
> bank can decide if the card is valid or risky. ONLY the bank can decide
> how much verification is needed. ONLY. The. Bank.

In an ideal environment where the bank controls the full system, you are
entirely correct.

Consider for instance the delivery of physical cards to cardholders. The
banks use the post office and adjust their policies/procedures
accordingly. When it is insecure delivery, the banks can decide to force
the customer to call in to activate the card.  The post office doesn't
dictate how the bank should operate.

The post office doesn't advertise how credit cards work. Apple announced
to billions of people in its keynote (ok, Bones tells me it is thousands
:-) how Apple Pay worked and this is meddling with "banking" and makes
it harder for an individual bank to work differently than what Apple
announced.

AWhile the transactions themselves are treated "normally" using existing
networks and new standards for ephemeric card numbers, one major aspect
is that an Apple supplied app (Passport) which communicates with Apple
servers established the credit card relationship with the bank instead
of using a bank supplied app which communicates directly with the bank
and is fully within the banks control.

So banks dont control what information the Apple supplied app will
provide them as they would if it were their own app.

So yes, bank can paliate this by insisting customers contact the bank to
provide missing authentication information, or they can "benefit" but
Apple's "easy as apple pie" marketing of Apple Pay, at the risk of
higher fraud rates.


Bottom line is that the bank retains responsability for evaluating the
fraud risk fo Apple's service. But it is not so easy to go against the
10,000 kg gorilla (Apple) that has extremely strong marketing force.

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#71782

Here is an example:

Cape May Lewis Ferry. Just came onto their web site. But press release
dated 24 October 2014.

http://www.cmlf.com/DataSecurityInformationPage/tabid/1201/Default.aspx

Credit card breach happened throughout period from Sept 20 2013 to
August 7th 2014.

"
 On July 30, 2014, Delaware River and Bay Authority (“the Authority”)
was notified of a possible security compromise involving credit and
debit card data stored on certain systems at the Cape May-Lewes Ferry’s
terminals and vessels. An investigation into this incident was
immediately initiated and our team, including third-party forensics
experts, has been working continuously to understand the nature and
scope of the incident.
#


"we were notified"  and then they started to investigate. Doesn't sound
to me like they found out on their own that they had a problem.

Thankfully I don't recall buying food on credit card last year. But did
buy the ticket with credit card. And that "record" would contain much
more info since they have to enter passport info when i buy ticket.

I am somewhat curious on how simple transactions at some food outlet
could be compromised, especially shipboard transactions.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#71787

"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote in message 
news:550e5d27$0$46866$c3e8da3$aae71a0a@news.astraweb.com...
> Here is an example:
>
> Cape May Lewis Ferry. Just came onto their web site. But press release
> dated 24 October 2014.
>
> http://www.cmlf.com/DataSecurityInformationPage/tabid/1201/Default.aspx
>
> Credit card breach happened throughout period from Sept 20 2013 to
> August 7th 2014.
>
> "
> On July 30, 2014, Delaware River and Bay Authority (“the Authority”)
> was notified of a possible security compromise involving credit and
> debit card data stored on certain systems at the Cape May-Lewes Ferry’s
> terminals and vessels. An investigation into this incident was
> immediately initiated and our team, including third-party forensics
> experts, has been working continuously to understand the nature and
> scope of the incident.
> #
>
>
> "we were notified"  and then they started to investigate. Doesn't sound
> to me like they found out on their own that they had a problem.

That is just some tiny little operation that presumably has
fuck all in the way of anyone looking after security there.

Nothing even remotely like Target or Sony.

> Thankfully I don't recall buying food on credit card last year. But did
> buy the ticket with credit card. And that "record" would contain much
> more info since they have to enter passport info when i buy ticket.

> I am somewhat curious on how simple transactions at some food
> outlet could be compromised, especially shipboard transactions.

No one ever spelt out how Target or Sony got looted
either, for what should be rather obvious reasons.

It not clear to me why Target does choose to keep databases
of card details, maybe just to make online transactions simpler. 

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#71784

Okay, so one time? In band camp? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> was all, like:
> On 15-03-21 21:39, Lewis wrote:

>> Fact: ONLY the bank can decide if a card is added to Apple Pay. ONLY the
>> bank can decide if the card is valid or risky. ONLY the bank can decide
>> how much verification is needed. ONLY. The. Bank.

> In an ideal environment where the bank controls the full system, you are
> entirely correct.

Since the bank *does* control the *entire* system, I'm glad that you
finally acknowledge that all your FUD has been completely and entirely
wrong.

> AWhile the transactions themselves are treated "normally" using existing
> networks and new standards for ephemeric card numbers, one major aspect
> is that an Apple supplied app (Passport) which communicates with Apple
> servers established the credit card relationship with the bank instead
> of using a bank supplied app which communicates directly with the bank
> and is fully within the banks control.

But that is simply not true.

For example, in order to add a Chase card to my Apple pay I would have
to first download Chase's application. I haven't done this because I
don't care about adding that card.

The process for adding a card to ApplePay is *entirely* in the control
of the bank. They set whatever parameters they want. You keep being told
this, and you keep ignoring it.

> So banks dont control what information the Apple supplied app will
> provide them as they would if it were their own app.

You are still, as you have been all along, WRONG.

> Bottom line is that the bank retains responsability for evaluating the
> fraud risk fo Apple's service. But it is not so easy to go against the
> 10,000 kg gorilla (Apple) that has extremely strong marketing force.

You are so entirely full of shit it is remarkable. Just admit that you
are wrong, entirely and completely wrong in every possible way.

-- 
http://2blog.kreme.com
The only good thing ever to come out of religion was the music.

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#71786

On 15-03-22 02:22, Lewis wrote:

> Since the bank *does* control the *entire* system, I'm glad that you
> finally acknowledge that all your FUD has been completely and entirely
> wrong.

So the bank controls the Passport application ? The bank controls the
Apple serves with which the Possport app communicates to transmit the
request to activate a particular card ?  (it is the Apple servers which
then contact the appropriate bank to send the request).


> For example, in order to add a Chase card to my Apple pay I would have
> to first download Chase's application. I haven't done this because I
> don't care about adding that card.

How does the Chase app interact with Passport ? Apple's "sanbox"
security on IOS makes it extremely hard for one app to talk to another
or read another app's data. So I am quite interested in knowing how such
cooperation would have been done between a Chase app and the Apple Pay
subsystem and Passport apps.

> The process for adding a card to ApplePay is *entirely* in the control
> of the bank. They set whatever parameters they want. You keep being told
> this, and you keep ignoring it.

I am not ignoring this. You are putting words into my mouth. However,
while banks have final say, they do not control Apple Pay nor can they
shape Apple Pay the way they want. They can paliate this by requiring
cardholder to take extra steps of they have decided Apple Pay does not
provide sufficient security for card activation.

> You are so entirely full of shit it is remarkable. Just admit that you
> are wrong, entirely and completely wrong in every possible way.

So you are denying that Apple is a large corporation  with huge
marketing power, huge customer base and has a huge amount of influence
on anything they decided to do ? (such as establishing how a system will
work and telling banks "take it or leave it". ?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#71842

Okay, so one time? In band camp? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> was all, like:
> On 15-03-22 02:22, Lewis wrote:

>> Since the bank *does* control the *entire* system, I'm glad that you
>> finally acknowledge that all your FUD has been completely and entirely
>> wrong.

> So the bank controls the Passport application ? The bank controls the
> Apple serves with which the Possport app communicates to transmit the
> request to activate a particular card ?  (it is the Apple servers which
> then contact the appropriate bank to send the request).

The bank controls what cards get added to ApplePay.

>> For example, in order to add a Chase card to my Apple pay I would have
>> to first download Chase's application. I haven't done this because I
>> don't care about adding that card.

> How does the Chase app interact with Passport?

No idea, but it is required to use the Chase app to authorize a card for
ApplePay.

>Apple's "sanbox" security on IOS makes it extremely hard for one app to
>talk to another or read another app's data. So I am quite interested in
>knowing how such cooperation would have been done between a Chase app
>and the Apple Pay subsystem and Passport apps.

Inter-app communication is actually quite simple in iOS.

> I am not ignoring this. You are putting words into my mouth. However,
> while banks have final say, they do not control Apple Pay

They do to the extent that Apple Pay has credit card added to it.

> So you are denying that Apple is a large corporation  with huge
> marketing power, huge customer base and has a huge amount of influence
> on anything they decided to do ? 

Obviously not, or we'd have had streaming TV on the AppleTV 5 years ago.

>(such as establishing how a system will work and telling banks "take it
>or leave it". ?

And there you go again, spreading lies and disinformation.


-- 
http://2blog.kreme.com
'They come back to the mountains to die,' said the King. 'They live in
Ankh-Morpork.' --The Fifth Elephant

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#71785

JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote
> Lewis wrote

>> Fact: ONLY the bank can decide if a card is added to Apple Pay.
>> ONLY the bank can decide if the card is valid or risky. ONLY the
>> bank can decide how much verification is needed. ONLY. The. Bank.

> In an ideal environment where the bank controls
> the full system, you are entirely correct.

He isn't correct even in that situation. The reality is that the bank
only has the info that Apple chooses to provide if they don’t want
to require everyone who adds a card to applepay to ring the bank
to get the back to allow that.

> Consider for instance the delivery of physical cards to cardholders.
> The banks use the post office and adjust their policies/procedures
> accordingly. When it is insecure delivery, the banks can decide to
> force the customer to call in to activate the card.  The post office
> doesn't dictate how the bank should operate.

> The post office doesn't advertise how credit cards work.

That isn't relevant to what is being discussed.

> Apple announced to billions of people in its keynote
> (ok, Bones tells me it is thousands :-) how Apple Pay
> worked and this is meddling with "banking"

It is doing nothing of the sort, JUST making
it easier to use your current cards.

> and makes it harder for an individual bank to
> work differently than what Apple announced.

Apple didn’t say anything about how the bank
handles the request to add the card to applepay.

> AWhile the transactions themselves are treated "normally" using
> existing networks and new standards for ephemeric card numbers,
> one major aspect is that an Apple supplied app (Passport) which
> communicates with Apple servers established the credit card
> relationship with the bank instead of using a bank supplied app which
> communicates directly with the bank and is fully within the banks control.

That's all a separate issue to what is being
discussed, adding the card to applepay.

> So banks dont control what information the Apple supplied
> app will provide them as they would if it were their own app.

But they are free to call the customer and get that info that
way, and to pay the very high cost of doing it that way.

> So yes, bank can paliate this by insisting customers contact
> the bank to provide missing authentication information,

It isn't missing.

> or they can "benefit" but Apple's "easy as apple pie"
> marketing of Apple Pay, at the risk of higher fraud rates.

Or they can just notify their customers that the card has
been added to applepay so that the customer can have
the card stopped if they have not done that themselves.

> Bottom line is that the bank retains responsability for evaluating the
> fraud risk fo Apple's service. But it is not so easy to go against the
> 10,000 kg gorilla (Apple) that has extremely strong marketing force.

And which has already turned entire industrys on their
head a number of times now and could well be about
to do that again with paying for stuff in person and any
bank that chooses to not have anything to do with that
until they see how it pans out risks seeing hordes of their
customers move to a bank which isn't so stupid and short
sighted. The cost of those lost customers may well be MUCH
more than they actually lose in fraudulent transactions given
that the card holder will eventually notice that the card has
been added to applepay and looted quite quickly. 

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#71788

On 15-03-22 02:28, Rod Speed wrote:
>
>> The post office doesn't advertise how credit cards work.
> 
> That isn't relevant to what is being discussed.

It is extremely relevant.

With its Apple Pay announcement, both at keynote and web sites, Apple
has made annoumcements on how it works. So customers have certain
expextations SET BY APPLE, of how the interaction will work. This is
outside the control of the bank.

From apple web site:

http://www.apple.com/iphone-6/apple-pay/
##
Setup is simple. Passbook already stores your boarding passes, tickets,
coupons, and more. Now it can store your credit and debit cards, too. To
get started, you can add the credit or debit card from your iTunes
account to Passbook by simply entering the card security code.

To add a new card on iPhone, use your iSight camera to enter your card
information. Or simply type it in manually. The first card you add
automatically becomes your default payment card, but you can go to
Passbook anytime to pay with a different card or select a new default in
Settings.
##


THERE IS NO INFORMATION ABOUT THE NEED TO SUPPLY MORE THAN CREDIT CARD
INFO.  There is no information about bank possibly requiring additional
interaction. No information about requiring one to download a bank's
proprietary app to co-exist with Apple Pay and Passport.



So this sets MARKETING pressure for banks to ignore security concern and
"go with the flow" but does not prevent a bank from deviating from
Apple's marketing and adding additional steps by having customer contact
bank. But the pressure to comply with the expectations set by Apple is
strong.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#71789

JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote

>>> The post office doesn't advertise how credit cards work.

>> That isn't relevant to what is being discussed.

> It is extremely relevant.

Nope.

> With its Apple Pay announcement, both at keynote and
> web sites, Apple has made annoumcements on how it works.

Yes, and the post office never did anything like that with credit cards.

> So customers have certain expextations SET
> BY APPLE, of how the interaction will work.

Yes, and the post office never did anything like that with credit cards.

> This is outside the control of the bank.

Yes, and the post office never did anything like that with credit cards.

> From apple web site:

> http://www.apple.com/iphone-6/apple-pay/
> ##
> Setup is simple. Passbook already stores your boarding passes, tickets,
> coupons, and more. Now it can store your credit and debit cards, too.
> To get started, you can add the credit or debit card from your iTunes
> account to Passbook by simply entering the card security code.

> To add a new card on iPhone, use your iSight camera to enter your card
> information. Or simply type it in manually. The first card you add
> automatically becomes your default payment card, but you can go to
> Passbook anytime to pay with a different card or select a new default in
> Settings.
> ##

> THERE IS NO INFORMATION ABOUT THE NEED
> TO SUPPLY MORE THAN CREDIT CARD INFO.

IRRELEVANT TO ANYTHING THE POST OFFICE
HAS EVER SAID ABOUT CREDIT CARDS.

> There is no information about bank possibly requiring additional
> interaction. No information about requiring one to download a
> bank's proprietary app to co-exist with Apple Pay and Passport.

That isn't how it works.

> So this sets MARKETING pressure for banks to ignore security concern and
> "go with the flow" but does not prevent a bank from deviating from Apple's
> marketing and adding additional steps by having customer contact bank.

Yes, but there is nothing like that WITH THE POST OFFICE AND CREDIT CARDS.

> But the pressure to comply with the expectations set by Apple is strong.

Yes, but there is nothing like that WITH THE POST OFFICE AND CREDIT CARDS.
 

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#71790

On 15-03-22 02:56, Rod Speed wrote:

> Yes, and the post office never did anything like that with credit cards.

Exactly. That is my point. Apple is different from post office. Post
office  doesn't do any marketing which sets expectations how how the
banking side will work or how its system is secure and simple.  Apple
does and this impacts how banks are expected to function.

It is not impossible, but hard for a bank to go against Apple's
marketing of Apple Pay, with regards to how simple it is to setup.
Bigger banks have easier time adding extra steps and breaking the
"simplicity" aspect of Apple Pay. Smaller banks may not.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#71791

JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>> Yes, and the post office never did anything like that with credit cards.

> Exactly. That is my point.

No its not.

> Apple is different from post office.

What the post office does with credit cards is
completely irrelevant to what is being discussed.

> Post office  doesn't do any marketing which sets expectations how
> how the banking side will work or how its system is secure and simple.

So what the post office does with credit cards is
completely irrelevant to what is being discussed.

> Apple does and this impacts how banks are expected to function.

What the post office does is completely irrelevant to what is being 
discussed.

You might as well proclaim that the dog catcher says nothing
about credit cards and that would be just as irrelevant.

> It is not impossible, but hard for a bank to go against Apple's
> marketing of Apple Pay, with regards to how simple it is to setup.

Nothing hard at all about notifying the customer when
their card has been added to applepay so they can have
the card cancelled if they have not done that themselves.

> Bigger banks have easier time adding extra steps and breaking
> the "simplicity" aspect of Apple Pay. Smaller banks may not.

Bullshit. Any bank can notify the customer when their
card has been added to applepay so they can have the
card cancelled if they have not done that themselves.

 

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#71792

On 15-03-22 04:14, Rod Speed wrote:

> What the post office does with credit cards is
> completely irrelevant to what is being discussed.

My point is that Apple is not a neutral party in the process as is the
post office. Apple does more than deliver the card to the phone, it has
the Passport App which initiates the request to have card delivered to
phone (aka: loaded onto phone and then activated by bank). Apple writes
the app, runs the servers etc.

With the post office, the banks are totally free to setup their banking
policies since the post office simply delivers (or not) an envelope.

With Apple Pay, banks are not totally free to do as they wish since the
Apple provided portions are done by Apple.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#71795

JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>> What the post office does with credit cards is
>> completely irrelevant to what is being discussed.

> My point is that Apple is not a neutral party in the process as is the 
> post office.

You can say the same thing about the dog catcher, the sheriff,
the brain surgeon, the trash collector, the prostitutes' collective,
the drain cleaners, the local garage, etc etc etc.

> Apple does more than deliver the card to the phone, it has the
> Passport App which initiates the request to have card delivered
> to phone (aka: loaded onto phone and then activated by bank).

But the bank is free to notify the card holder when the
card has been added to applepay so they can have the
card cancelled if that was not done by the card holder.

> Apple writes the app, runs the servers etc.

But has nothing to do with deciding whether
the card can be used on applepay.

> With the post office, the banks are totally free to setup their banking
> policies since the post office simply delivers (or not) an envelope.

Just as true with the banks as far as notifying the card holder
when the card has been added to applepay so they can have
the card cancelled if that was not done by the card holder.

> With Apple Pay, banks are not totally free to do as they wish

They are with notifying the card holder when the card
has been added to applepay so they can have the
card cancelled if that was not done by the card holder.

> since the Apple provided portions are done by Apple.

But that is irrelevant to what the bank can do about
notifying the card holder when the card has been
added to applepay so they can have the card
cancelled if that was not done by the card holder.
 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#71799

In article <550e6592$0$41695$c3e8da3$5d8fb80f@news.astraweb.com>,
 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> On 15-03-22 02:28, Rod Speed wrote:
> >
> >> The post office doesn't advertise how credit cards work.
> > 
> > That isn't relevant to what is being discussed.
> 
> It is extremely relevant.
> 
> With its Apple Pay announcement, both at keynote and web sites, Apple
> has made annoumcements on how it works. So customers have certain
> expextations SET BY APPLE, of how the interaction will work. This is
> outside the control of the bank.

  For this to be relevant you have to assume that Apple made the 
announcement on how it works without a single bank signed up and no 
contracts in place. This also means that the banks would then feel 
obligated to sign contracts AFTER the announcements (contracts to their 
detriment) just to appease Apple. Ain't gonna happen. 

> 
> So this sets MARKETING pressure for banks to ignore security concern and
> "go with the flow" but does not prevent a bank from deviating from
> Apple's marketing and adding additional steps by having customer contact
> bank. But the pressure to comply with the expectations set by Apple is
> strong.

   Apple can make an advance announcement with no agreements in place 
and the banks then have to follow meekly along to their detriment just 
to appease the God of Cupertino?  Really?
-- 
“Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
     but what they conceal is vital.”
                       — Aaron Levenstein

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#71808

On 2015-03-22, Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <550e6592$0$41695$c3e8da3$5d8fb80f@news.astraweb.com>,
>  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 15-03-22 02:28, Rod Speed wrote:
>> >
>> >> The post office doesn't advertise how credit cards work.
>> > 
>> > That isn't relevant to what is being discussed.
>> 
>> It is extremely relevant.
>> 
>> With its Apple Pay announcement, both at keynote and web sites, Apple
>> has made annoumcements on how it works. So customers have certain
>> expextations SET BY APPLE, of how the interaction will work. This is
>> outside the control of the bank.
>
>   For this to be relevant you have to assume that Apple made the 
> announcement on how it works without a single bank signed up and no 
> contracts in place.

Which is complete and utter bullshit.

> This also means that the banks would then feel 
> obligated to sign contracts AFTER the announcements (contracts to their 
> detriment) just to appease Apple. Ain't gonna happen. 

Yep. Apple was obviously in talks with banks about this long before the
announcement took place.
 
>> So this sets MARKETING pressure for banks to ignore security concern and
>> "go with the flow" but does not prevent a bank from deviating from
>> Apple's marketing and adding additional steps by having customer contact
>> bank. But the pressure to comply with the expectations set by Apple is
>> strong.
>
>    Apple can make an advance announcement with no agreements in place 
> and the banks then have to follow meekly along to their detriment just 
> to appease the God of Cupertino?  Really?

It's the only way his twisted theory works, and the only way he can
troll Apple on this one.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#71818

Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote
> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote

>>>> The post office doesn't advertise how credit cards work.

>>> That isn't relevant to what is being discussed.

>> It is extremely relevant.

>> With its Apple Pay announcement, both at keynote and web sites,
>> Apple has made annoumcements on how it works. So customers
>> have certain expextations SET BY APPLE, of how the interaction
>> will work. This is outside the control of the bank.

> For this to be relevant you have to assume that Apple
> made the announcement on how it works without a
> single bank signed up and no contracts in place.

No. And that is what Apple did with iTunes anyway.

> This also means that the banks would then feel obligated
> to sign contracts AFTER the announcements (contracts to
> their detriment) just to appease Apple.

Not to appease Apple, to ensure that their customers who
have iDevices don’t just piss off and use a bank which has
enough of a clue to use ApplePay right from the start.

> Ain't gonna happen.

BULLSHIT.

That is precisely what happened with iTunes.

And the operations involved were a LOT more concentrated
than the banks, even than just the major banks.

>> So this sets MARKETING pressure for banks to ignore security concern
>> and "go with the flow" but does not prevent a bank from deviating from
>> Apple's marketing and adding additional steps by having customer contact
>> bank. But the pressure to comply with the expectations set by Apple is 
>> strong.

> Apple can make an advance announcement with no agreements
> in place and the banks then have to follow meekly along to their
> detriment just to appease the God of Cupertino?

No, so their customers who have iDevices don’t piss off to another
bank that has enough of a clue to realise that what fraud does
happen is going to cost them a LOT less than losing most of
their customers who have iDevices and want to use ApplePay.

> Really?

Yep, really. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#71843

Okay, so one time? In band camp? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> was all, like:
> On 15-03-22 02:28, Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>>> The post office doesn't advertise how credit cards work.
>> 
>> That isn't relevant to what is being discussed.

> It is extremely relevant.

> With its Apple Pay announcement, both at keynote and web sites, Apple
> has made annoumcements on how it works. So customers have certain
> expextations SET BY APPLE, of how the interaction will work. This is
> outside the control of the bank.

> From apple web site:

> http://www.apple.com/iphone-6/apple-pay/
> ##
> Setup is simple. Passbook already stores your boarding passes, tickets,
> coupons, and more. Now it can store your credit and debit cards, too. To
> get started, you can add the credit or debit card from your iTunes
> account to Passbook by simply entering the card security code.

That is correct. The card has alwready been authorized an this si a
"greenlane" addition. Add your card to your itunes account and then you
can add it to Apple Pay without jumping through any additional hoops.

> To add a new card on iPhone, use your iSight camera to enter your card
> information. Or simply type it in manually. The first card you add
> automatically becomes your default payment card, but you can go to
> Passbook anytime to pay with a different card or select a new default in
> Settings.

Yes, and that is also true.


> THERE IS NO INFORMATION ABOUT THE NEED TO SUPPLY MORE THAN CREDIT CARD
> INFO.

Because there is no *need* to supply more than credit card info. If you
do have to do anything else, that is up to the BANK, not Apple. And you
are guided through the steps in the adding a card process.

> There is no information about bank possibly requiring additional
> interaction. No information about requiring one to download a bank's
> proprietary app to co-exist with Apple Pay and Passport.

Yes. And?  You are told what is needed to activate the card when you try
to add it, and that can be different for every card you add. As I posted
before, three cards resulted in three ENTIRELY different activation
experiences for me, and a fourth card would have required another
activation procedure.

> So this sets MARKETING pressure for banks to ignore security concern and
> "go with the flow"

Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit.

-- 
http://2blog.kreme.com
But just because you've seen me on your TV Doesn't mean I'm any more
enlightened than you

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#71855

On 15-03-22 18:23, Lewis wrote:

> Because there is no *need* to supply more than credit card info.

And this is plain wrong. A bank cannot "green lane" a card before it
gets the request to activate card on Apple Pay, and it cannot gauge how
authentic that request is with only credit card number, name on credit
card and expiration date. It needs more info to validate that the person
is who they say they are instead of some thief.


At the end of the day, if Apple Pay represents an inferior security with
higher fraud, it doesn't matter if it the bank's, Apple's or shared
fault. The system yields lower security.

And since this is an Apple branded service, it is to Apple's advantage
to fix it. (And I assume it is being done). If news of ramnpant fraud on
Apple Pay spread, the system will lose trust of the public.

Remember that a LOT of the public has distrust of such transactions done
by a phone, to a large extent because they do not understand what really
goes on and that the transaction is as safe of not safer than a regular
transaction. (especually in USA where regular magstripe transactions
have basically 0 security).

So at this stage of launching mobile payments, it is important to have
the image that it is a very secure system.  This is an issue for all
those setting up mobile payment systems, from banks with their own apps
on Android/Blackberry, or those who particiapte in Apple Pay.

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