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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #70296 > unrolled thread

OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy

Started byjamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
First post2015-02-28 06:30 +1300
Last post2015-03-05 14:50 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 141 — 21 participants

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  OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-02-28 06:30 +1300
    Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-27 17:58 +0000
      Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy awoolmeyer@gmail.com - 2015-03-04 08:53 -0800
        Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-04 09:59 -0700
        Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.com> - 2015-03-05 03:43 +0000
          Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-03-05 10:54 -0800
            Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.com> - 2015-03-06 02:02 +0000
              Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-03-05 18:06 -0800
          Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy awoolmeyer@gmail.com - 2015-03-05 11:00 -0800
            Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-03-05 11:17 -0800
            Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.org> - 2015-03-05 13:27 -0800
              Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy awoolmeyer@gmail.com - 2015-03-05 16:15 -0800
                Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.org> - 2015-03-05 19:21 -0800
    Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-02-27 13:24 -0500
    Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.org> - 2015-02-27 11:32 -0800
    Re: ... Farewell Leonard Nimoy Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2015-02-27 20:14 -0800
      Re: ... Farewell Leonard Nimoy Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2015-02-28 09:58 -0600
        Re: ... Farewell Leonard Nimoy Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-02-28 19:54 -0500
    Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> - 2015-03-02 14:42 -0500
      Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-03 08:48 +1300
      Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-02 23:00 +0000
        Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-02 19:02 -0500
          Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-03 00:58 +0000
            Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-02 20:17 -0500
        Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-03 00:58 +0000
        Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-04 09:39 -0700
          Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-04 15:31 -0500
            Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-05 04:05 +0000
          Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.com> - 2015-03-05 03:45 +0000
            Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-04 21:02 -0700
              Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-05 18:57 +1300
            Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-05 18:41 +0000
              Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy android <here@there.was> - 2015-03-05 20:11 +0100
      Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-03 00:57 +0000
      Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-04 09:26 -0700
        Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-04 16:45 +0000
          Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> - 2015-03-05 01:27 +0100
            Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-05 02:27 +0000
              Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-05 16:32 +1300
                Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-04 20:55 -0700
                  Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-05 18:58 +1300
                    Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-05 09:50 -0500
                      Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-05 14:54 +0000
                    Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-05 08:02 -0700
                      Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-06 09:53 +1300
                        Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-05 17:23 -0500
                          Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-06 16:17 +1300
                          Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-05 21:38 -0700
                            Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-06 08:51 -0500
                              Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-06 10:49 -0700
                                Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-06 23:02 +0000
                          Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> - 2015-03-06 16:10 -0500
                            Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.org> - 2015-03-06 13:55 -0800
                              Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-06 23:01 +0000
                                Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.com> - 2015-03-07 02:45 +0000
                                  Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-07 07:08 +0000
                            Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-07 12:20 +1300
                              Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-07 15:21 +1300
                                Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-03-06 18:34 -0800
                                  Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-07 20:34 +1300
                                    Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-07 09:01 -0700
                                      Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-03-07 11:37 -0800
                                        Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-08 13:31 +1300
                                          Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-08 14:51 +1300
                                            Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-08 15:23 +1300
                                          Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-03-07 20:53 -0800
                                    Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-03-07 11:36 -0800
                                      Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-08 13:31 +1300
                                        Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-03-07 20:53 -0800
                                        Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-03-08 10:49 +0000
                                          Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-09 09:08 +1300
                                        Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> - 2015-03-09 14:44 -0400
                                          Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-10 08:52 +1300
                                            Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-03-09 13:47 -0700
                                              Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-10 13:23 +1300
                                                Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-10 00:38 -0400
                                                  Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2015-03-15 16:03 +0000
                                                Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-03-10 00:17 -0700
                                                  Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-10 23:29 +1300
                                                    Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-03-10 11:37 -0700
                                                      Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-10 14:44 -0400
                                                      Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-03-10 14:59 -0400
                                                        Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2015-03-10 14:51 -0700
                                                          Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-10 18:46 -0400
                                                      Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-11 15:08 +1300
                                                        Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-03-10 23:56 -0700
                                                          Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-11 20:05 +1300
                                                            Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-03-11 01:45 -0700
                                                              Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-11 22:25 +1300
                                                                Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-03-11 02:42 -0700
                                                                  Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-12 00:18 +1300
                                                                    Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-03-11 09:01 -0400
                                                                    Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-11 13:06 +0000
                                                                    Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-03-11 09:57 -0700
                                                                  Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-03-11 08:50 -0400
                                                            Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy awoolmeyer@gmail.com - 2015-03-12 17:43 -0700
                                                              Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-03-12 23:45 -0700
                                                  Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-03-10 08:15 -0400
                                            Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2015-03-15 15:25 +0000
                                    Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-08 10:17 +1300
                                      Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-08 13:31 +1300
                                Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-07 16:07 +1300
                                  Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-07 20:34 +1300
                                    Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-03-07 11:47 -0800
                                      Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-08 13:31 +1300
                                        Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-08 14:51 +1300
                                          Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-08 15:23 +1300
                                            Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-08 16:12 +1300
                                              Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-08 19:46 +1300
                                                Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-09 09:06 +1300
                                                  Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-09 14:33 +1300
                                                    Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> - 2015-03-09 14:56 -0400
                                                      Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-10 09:42 +1300
                                                        Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-10 15:18 +1300
                                                        Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2015-03-11 07:32 +0000
                                                    Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2015-03-11 07:25 +0000
                                                      Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-03-11 09:02 -0400
                                                        Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2015-03-15 14:15 +0000
                                                Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2015-03-11 07:37 +0000
                                              Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2015-03-11 05:52 +0000
                                                Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-11 19:52 +1300
                                            Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-03-07 20:57 -0800
                                              Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-08 19:46 +1300
                                                Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-03-07 23:18 -0800
                                                Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-09 09:05 +1300
                                            Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-03-08 10:47 +0000
                                        Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-03-07 20:55 -0800
                                        Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-08 00:00 -0500
                                        Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-08 10:16 -0500
                                          Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-09 04:18 +1300
                                    Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-08 10:25 +1300
                                      Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2015-03-15 14:56 +0000
                                        Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2015-03-18 01:37 +0000
                  Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-05 14:50 +0000
                    Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-05 09:07 -0700
                      Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> - 2015-03-05 12:01 -0500
                      Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-05 18:45 +0000
                  Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-05 18:43 +0000
                    Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-05 21:35 -0700
                      Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-06 09:30 +0000
                Re: OT: Farewell Leonard Nimoy Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-05 14:50 +0000

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#70489

Fromjamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date2015-03-05 18:58 +1300
Message-ID<1m0trc6.1kbb6y36yk7u0N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to#70475
Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> In article <1m0tkla.1bkpgij132p49gN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>, Jamie
> Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> 
> > Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > On 2015-03-05, ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Jolly Roger wrote:
> > > >> On 2015-03-04, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> > > >>> Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> wrote:
> > > >>>> However, in my humble opinion, this is absolutely Nimoy's most
> > > >>>> memorable
> > > >>>> achievement:
> > > >>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGF5ROpjRAU>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Before clicking on the link, I knew that's what it would be.
> > > >>
> > > >> +1
> > > >
> > > > Nope - +2.:-)
> > > 
> > > : )
> > > 
> > > I wish I had had the chance to meet Leonard while he was still with
> > > us...
> > 
> > I always wanted to meet Scotty, but any would do :-)
> 
> I never met any of them, but I did meet Asimov once, and David Weber as
> well.

Cool. What was Asimov like in person? Where did you meet him?
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#70514

FromKurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com>
Date2015-03-05 09:50 -0500
Message-ID<oc-dnTXPVZih8GXJnZ2dnUU7-TWdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#70489
In article <1m0trc6.1kbb6y36yk7u0N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
 jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:

> > 
> > I never met any of them, but I did meet Asimov once, and David Weber as
> > well.
> 
> Cool. What was Asimov like in person? Where did you meet him?

I met Asimov once, too. It was a doubleheader workshop with Douglas 
Adams. Mr. Asimov was very nice, took his time answering our questions 
and even asked many of us questions of his own about how we might handle 
something in our work. He had some funny stories about how not to do 
things. 
    Mr. Adams, was nice enough, but more aloof. He mainly lectured. 
Liked both of them, but Mr. Asimov was more respected and well-loved 
uncle whilst Mr. Adams was more of a lecturer.
-- 
³Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
     but what they conceal is vital.²
                       ‹ Aaron Levenstein

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#70515

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2015-03-05 14:54 +0000
Message-ID<clr90oF75tsU15@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#70514
On 2015-03-05, Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <1m0trc6.1kbb6y36yk7u0N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
>  jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
>
>> > 
>> > I never met any of them, but I did meet Asimov once, and David Weber as
>> > well.
>> 
>> Cool. What was Asimov like in person? Where did you meet him?
>
> I met Asimov once, too. It was a doubleheader workshop with Douglas 
> Adams. 

Dammit. You guys are lucky!

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#70518

FromMichelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date2015-03-05 08:02 -0700
Message-ID<050320150802201841%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to#70489
In article <1m0trc6.1kbb6y36yk7u0N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>, Jamie
Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:

> > I never met any of them, but I did meet Asimov once, and David Weber as
> > well.
> 
> Cool. What was Asimov like in person? Where did you meet him?

He was as one would expect.  He was the keynote speaker at the New York
Mensa Regional Gathering in May 1978, but attended the gathering for
the entire day, so we got to speak and interact with him then. 
Interestingly, his speech, including his introductory anecdote,
appeared, verbatim (or as close to that as I could remember) in his
column in the Feb 1979 Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction.

My takeaways from his speech are
1.  There is undoubtedly intelligent life "out there".
2.  We will never be visited by them, nor will we ever visit them,
because of the lightspeed limitation.  He did not believe that there
will ever be FTL transportation, nor shortcuts through wormholes, etc.

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#70548

Fromjamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date2015-03-06 09:53 +1300
Message-ID<1m0uwkk.auf6x418i6j47N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to#70518
Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> In article <1m0trc6.1kbb6y36yk7u0N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>, Jamie
> Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> 
> > > I never met any of them, but I did meet Asimov once, and David Weber as
> > > well.
> > 
> > Cool. What was Asimov like in person? Where did you meet him?
> 
> He was as one would expect.  He was the keynote speaker at the New York
> Mensa Regional Gathering in May 1978, but attended the gathering for
> the entire day, so we got to speak and interact with him then. 
> Interestingly, his speech, including his introductory anecdote,
> appeared, verbatim (or as close to that as I could remember) in his
> column in the Feb 1979 Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction.
> 
> My takeaways from his speech are
> 1.  There is undoubtedly intelligent life "out there".
> 2.  We will never be visited by them, nor will we ever visit them,
> because of the lightspeed limitation.  He did not believe that there
> will ever be FTL transportation, nor shortcuts through wormholes, etc.

Yep, Star Trek style warp seems most unlikely, nowadays :-(
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#70552

FromKurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com>
Date2015-03-05 17:23 -0500
Message-ID<IpSdnV6oXbn_SmXJnZ2dnUU7-XWdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#70548
In article <1m0uwkk.auf6x418i6j47N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
 jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:

> > 
> > My takeaways from his speech are
> > 1.  There is undoubtedly intelligent life "out there".
> > 2.  We will never be visited by them, nor will we ever visit them,
> > because of the lightspeed limitation.  He did not believe that there
> > will ever be FTL transportation, nor shortcuts through wormholes, etc.
> 
> Yep, Star Trek style warp seems most unlikely, nowadays :-(

 Beware making fun of science fiction as "science fantasy."
    Unless of course it contains time machines, FTL drives,
force-field "shields", antigravity, Wesley Crusher, or
workable libertarian utopias.  Then it's okay to laugh all
you like.
-- 
³Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
     but what they conceal is vital.²
                       ‹ Aaron Levenstein

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#70562

Fromjamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date2015-03-06 16:17 +1300
Message-ID<1m0veef.kbq7qd1l4nphrN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to#70552
Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote:

> In article <1m0uwkk.auf6x418i6j47N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
>  jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> 
> > > 
> > > My takeaways from his speech are
> > > 1.  There is undoubtedly intelligent life "out there".
> > > 2.  We will never be visited by them, nor will we ever visit them,
> > > because of the lightspeed limitation.  He did not believe that there
> > > will ever be FTL transportation, nor shortcuts through wormholes, etc.
> > 
> > Yep, Star Trek style warp seems most unlikely, nowadays :-(
> 
>  Beware making fun of science fiction as "science fantasy."
>     Unless of course it contains time machines, FTL drives,
> force-field "shields", antigravity, Wesley Crusher, or
> workable libertarian utopias.  Then it's okay to laugh all
> you like.

I'm still holding out hope for wormholes for FTL travel (but it's not
looking promising. Well, not unless you count success as arriving on the
other end as radiation).

-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#70565

FromMichelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date2015-03-05 21:38 -0700
Message-ID<050320152138310214%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to#70552
In article <IpSdnV6oXbn_SmXJnZ2dnUU7-XWdnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Kurt
Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote:

>  Beware making fun of science fiction as "science fantasy."
>     Unless of course it contains time machines, FTL drives,
> force-field "shields", antigravity, Wesley Crusher, or
> workable libertarian utopias.  Then it's okay to laugh all
> you like.

You've read The Probability Broach?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#70568

FromKurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com>
Date2015-03-06 08:51 -0500
Message-ID<pLadnZmh36NuLWTJnZ2dnUU7-d2dnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#70565
In article <050320152138310214%michelle@michelle.org>,
 Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> In article <IpSdnV6oXbn_SmXJnZ2dnUU7-XWdnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Kurt
> Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >  Beware making fun of science fiction as "science fantasy."
> >     Unless of course it contains time machines, FTL drives,
> > force-field "shields", antigravity, Wesley Crusher, or
> > workable libertarian utopias.  Then it's okay to laugh all
> > you like.
> 
> You've read The Probability Broach?

Nope. I  shall track it down
-- 
³Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
     but what they conceal is vital.²
                       ‹ Aaron Levenstein

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#70572

FromMichelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date2015-03-06 10:49 -0700
Message-ID<060320151049589559%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to#70568
In article <pLadnZmh36NuLWTJnZ2dnUU7-d2dnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Kurt
Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote:

> In article <050320152138310214%michelle@michelle.org>,
>  Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> 
> > In article <IpSdnV6oXbn_SmXJnZ2dnUU7-XWdnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Kurt
> > Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 
> > >  Beware making fun of science fiction as "science fantasy."
> > >     Unless of course it contains time machines, FTL drives,
> > > force-field "shields", antigravity, Wesley Crusher, or
> > > workable libertarian utopias.  Then it's okay to laugh all
> > > you like.
> > 
> > You've read The Probability Broach?
> 
> Nope. I  shall track it down

It is a book about a workable libertarian utopia, written by L. Neil
Smith.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#70586

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2015-03-06 23:02 +0000
Message-ID<slrnmfkchs.160n.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#70572
Okay, so one time? In band camp? Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> was all, like:
> In article <pLadnZmh36NuLWTJnZ2dnUU7-d2dnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Kurt
> Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> In article <050320152138310214%michelle@michelle.org>,
>>  Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>> 
>> > In article <IpSdnV6oXbn_SmXJnZ2dnUU7-XWdnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Kurt
>> > Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > 
>> > >  Beware making fun of science fiction as "science fantasy."
>> > >     Unless of course it contains time machines, FTL drives,
>> > > force-field "shields", antigravity, Wesley Crusher, or
>> > > workable libertarian utopias.  Then it's okay to laugh all
>> > > you like.
>> > 
>> > You've read The Probability Broach?
>> 
>> Nope. I  shall track it down

> It is a book about a workable libertarian utopia, written by L. Neil
> Smith.

I cold use another wold-o-magic fantasy yarn to read, maybe I'll check it out.


-- 
http://2blog.kreme.com
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time, lost in space, and meaning

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#70577

FromFred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org>
Date2015-03-06 16:10 -0500
Message-ID<mdd532$43j$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#70552
On 3/5/15 5:23 p, Kurt Ullman wrote:
> In article <1m0uwkk.auf6x418i6j47N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
>   jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
>
>>>
>>> My takeaways from his speech are
>>> 1.  There is undoubtedly intelligent life "out there".
>>> 2.  We will never be visited by them, nor will we ever visit them,
>>> because of the lightspeed limitation.  He did not believe that there
>>> will ever be FTL transportation, nor shortcuts through wormholes, etc.
>>
>> Yep, Star Trek style warp seems most unlikely, nowadays :-(
>
>   Beware making fun of science fiction as "science fantasy."
>      Unless of course it contains time machines, FTL drives,
> force-field "shields", antigravity, Wesley Crusher, or
> workable libertarian utopias.  Then it's okay to laugh all
> you like.

This book is worth a read if you want to know just what's possible and 
what isn't based on today's knowledge:

The Physics of Star Trek Paperback by Lawrence M. Krauss
<http://www.amazon.com/Physics-Star-Trek-Lawrence-Krauss/dp/0465002048/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1425675923>

'What warps when you’re traveling at warp speed? What is the difference 
between a wormhole and a black hole? Are time loops really possible, and 
can I kill my grandmother before I am born? Anyone who has ever wondered 
“could this really happen?” will gain useful insights into the Star Trek 
universe (and, incidentally, the real world of physics) in this charming 
and accessible guide. Lawrence M. Krauss boldly goes where Star Trek has 
gone-and beyond. From Newton to Hawking, from Einstein to Feynman, from 
Kirk to Picard, Krauss leads readers on a voyage to the world of physics 
as we now know it and as it might one day be.'

-- 
I certainly feel like the product of quantum fluctuations on many days 
of the week, don't you?   --Stephen Hawking

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#70579

Fromtmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.org>
Date2015-03-06 13:55 -0800
Message-ID<mdd7mm$ear$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#70577
On 3/6/15 1:10 PM, Fred Moore wrote:
>
> The Physics of Star Trek Paperback by Lawrence M. Krauss

I've read that book.. On warp speed it basically says "highly 
improbable".  Transporters.. same thing.

-- 
"Anything's a dildo if you're brave enough".
   - Abraham Lincoln

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#70585

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2015-03-06 23:01 +0000
Message-ID<slrnmfkcgd.160n.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#70579
Okay, so one time? In band camp? tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.org> was all, like:
> On 3/6/15 1:10 PM, Fred Moore wrote:
>>
>> The Physics of Star Trek Paperback by Lawrence M. Krauss

> I've read that book.. On warp speed it basically says "highly 
> improbable".  Transporters.. same thing.

I'd say transporters are WAY more improbable than warp engines.

-- 
http://2blog.kreme.com
"He is simply a shiver looking for a spine to run up." - Paul Keating

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#70598

Fromtmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.com>
Date2015-03-07 02:45 +0000
Message-ID<slrnmfkpk1.15qo.tmo1138@davidjr-macpro.local>
In reply to#70585
On 2015-03-06, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> Okay, so one time? In band camp? tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.org> was all, like:
>> On 3/6/15 1:10 PM, Fred Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> The Physics of Star Trek Paperback by Lawrence M. Krauss
>
>> I've read that book.. On warp speed it basically says "highly 
>> improbable".  Transporters.. same thing.
>
> I'd say transporters are WAY more improbable than warp engines.
>

Basically that's what he said.  He also said about warp engines that the key
will be to be able to curve space around the ship.. not propel the ship via FTL
means.

-- 
Ever get the feeling that the world's on tape and one of the reels is missing?
		-- Rich Little

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#70601

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2015-03-07 07:08 +0000
Message-ID<slrnmfl90r.1aj7.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#70598
Okay, so one time? In band camp? tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.com> was all, like:
> On 2015-03-06, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.org> was all, like:
>>> On 3/6/15 1:10 PM, Fred Moore wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The Physics of Star Trek Paperback by Lawrence M. Krauss
>>
>>> I've read that book.. On warp speed it basically says "highly 
>>> improbable".  Transporters.. same thing.
>>
>> I'd say transporters are WAY more improbable than warp engines.
>>

> Basically that's what he said.  He also said about warp engines that the key
> will be to be able to curve space around the ship.. not propel the ship via FTL
> means.

There is nothing in physics that prevents travelling at FTL speeds, the
only prohibition is that matter cannot travel *at* the speed of light.
Faster or slower are just fine.

There is the problem of instantaneous acceleration to FLT speeds without
ever moving AT the speed of light, but there are possible scenarios that
could allow that. Not likely ones, but possible. Wormholes are also a
potential, if extremely unlikely, scenario.

Warping space is, honestly, the most likely of a host of highly
improbable possible solutions to moving between points in less time than
it take light to move between them.

But in all likelihood we are pretty much stuck with this Solar System.

-- 
http://2blog.kreme.com
You are responsible for your Rose

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#70591

FromYour Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date2015-03-07 12:20 +1300
Message-ID<070320151220524537%YourName@YourISP.com>
In reply to#70577
In article <mdd532$43j$1@dont-email.me>, Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org>
wrote:
> On 3/5/15 5:23 p, Kurt Ullman wrote:
> > In article <1m0uwkk.auf6x418i6j47N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> >   jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> >>>
> >>> My takeaways from his speech are
> >>> 1.  There is undoubtedly intelligent life "out there".
> >>> 2.  We will never be visited by them, nor will we ever visit them,
> >>> because of the lightspeed limitation.  He did not believe that there
> >>> will ever be FTL transportation, nor shortcuts through wormholes, etc.
> >>
> >> Yep, Star Trek style warp seems most unlikely, nowadays :-(
> >
> >   Beware making fun of science fiction as "science fantasy."
> >      Unless of course it contains time machines, FTL drives,
> > force-field "shields", antigravity, Wesley Crusher, or
> > workable libertarian utopias.  Then it's okay to laugh all
> > you like.
> 
> This book is worth a read if you want to know just what's possible and 
> what isn't based on today's knowledge:
> 
> The Physics of Star Trek Paperback by Lawrence M. Krauss
>
> <http://www.amazon.com/Physics-Star-Trek-Lawrence-Krauss/dp/0465002048/ref=sr_
> 1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1425675923>

But by "today's knowledge" 1000 years ago, a computer was impossible,
flying between countries in a couple of days was impossible, let alone
flying to the Moon, etc. People alive today can't even start to
understand what may or may not be possible in another 1000 years and
more. :-)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#70596

Fromjamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date2015-03-07 15:21 +1300
Message-ID<1m0x6g5.1fc98ooldw4haN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to#70591
Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> In article <mdd532$43j$1@dont-email.me>, Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org>
> wrote:
> > On 3/5/15 5:23 p, Kurt Ullman wrote:
> > > In article <1m0uwkk.auf6x418i6j47N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> > >   jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> My takeaways from his speech are
> > >>> 1.  There is undoubtedly intelligent life "out there".
> > >>> 2.  We will never be visited by them, nor will we ever visit them,
> > >>> because of the lightspeed limitation.  He did not believe that there
> > >>> will ever be FTL transportation, nor shortcuts through wormholes, etc.
> > >>
> > >> Yep, Star Trek style warp seems most unlikely, nowadays :-(
> > >
> > >   Beware making fun of science fiction as "science fantasy."
> > >      Unless of course it contains time machines, FTL drives,
> > > force-field "shields", antigravity, Wesley Crusher, or
> > > workable libertarian utopias.  Then it's okay to laugh all
> > > you like.
> > 
> > This book is worth a read if you want to know just what's possible and
> > what isn't based on today's knowledge:
> > 
> > The Physics of Star Trek Paperback by Lawrence M. Krauss
> >
> > <http://www.amazon.com/Physics-Star-Trek-Lawrence-Krauss/dp/0465002048/r
> > ef=sr_ 1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1425675923>
> 
> But by "today's knowledge" 1000 years ago, a computer was impossible,
> flying between countries in a couple of days was impossible, let alone
> flying to the Moon, etc. People alive today can't even start to
> understand what may or may not be possible in another 1000 years and
> more. :-)

That said, we can still safely say matter to energy to matter
transporters are mere fantasy. Some things are just too scientifically
improbable. 1000 (or even 100) years ago we didn't know enough to have
enough of a clue about such things. Today we do.

-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#70597

FromAlan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net>
Date2015-03-06 18:34 -0800
Message-ID<mddo40$bk0$1@news.datemas.de>
In reply to#70596
On 2015-03-07 02:21:19 +0000, Jamie Kahn Genet said:

> Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> 
>> In article <mdd532$43j$1@dont-email.me>, Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org>
>> wrote:
>>> On 3/5/15 5:23 p, Kurt Ullman wrote:
>>>> In article <1m0uwkk.auf6x418i6j47N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
>>>> jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> My takeaways from his speech are
>>>>>> 1.  There is undoubtedly intelligent life "out there".
>>>>>> 2.  We will never be visited by them, nor will we ever visit them,
>>>>>> because of the lightspeed limitation.  He did not believe that there
>>>>>> will ever be FTL transportation, nor shortcuts through wormholes, etc.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yep, Star Trek style warp seems most unlikely, nowadays :-(
>>>> 
>>>> Beware making fun of science fiction as "science fantasy."
>>>> Unless of course it contains time machines, FTL drives,
>>>> force-field "shields", antigravity, Wesley Crusher, or
>>>> workable libertarian utopias.  Then it's okay to laugh all
>>>> you like.
>>> 
>>> This book is worth a read if you want to know just what's possible and
>>> what isn't based on today's knowledge:
>>> 
>>> The Physics of Star Trek Paperback by Lawrence M. Krauss
>>> 
>>> <http://www.amazon.com/Physics-Star-Trek-Lawrence-Krauss/dp/0465002048/r
>>> ef=sr_ 1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1425675923>
>> 
>> But by "today's knowledge" 1000 years ago, a computer was impossible,
>> flying between countries in a couple of days was impossible, let alone
>> flying to the Moon, etc. People alive today can't even start to
>> understand what may or may not be possible in another 1000 years and
>> more. :-)
> 
> That said, we can still safely say matter to energy to matter
> transporters are mere fantasy. Some things are just too scientifically
> improbable. 1000 (or even 100) years ago we didn't know enough to have
> enough of a clue about such things. Today we do.

Ummmm.... ...no.

We THINK we know enough to have a clue about such things; just as a 
thousand years ago, THEY thought they knew enough.

That's the point.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#70602

Fromjamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date2015-03-07 20:34 +1300
Message-ID<1m0xjfu.6t69zy56sy6aN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to#70597
Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> wrote:

> On 2015-03-07 02:21:19 +0000, Jamie Kahn Genet said:
> 
> > Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> In article <mdd532$43j$1@dont-email.me>, Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>> On 3/5/15 5:23 p, Kurt Ullman wrote:
> >>>> In article <1m0uwkk.auf6x418i6j47N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> >>>> jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> My takeaways from his speech are
> >>>>>> 1.  There is undoubtedly intelligent life "out there".
> >>>>>> 2.  We will never be visited by them, nor will we ever visit them,
> >>>>>> because of the lightspeed limitation.  He did not believe that there
> >>>>>> will ever be FTL transportation, nor shortcuts through wormholes, etc.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Yep, Star Trek style warp seems most unlikely, nowadays :-(
> >>>> 
> >>>> Beware making fun of science fiction as "science fantasy."
> >>>> Unless of course it contains time machines, FTL drives,
> >>>> force-field "shields", antigravity, Wesley Crusher, or
> >>>> workable libertarian utopias.  Then it's okay to laugh all
> >>>> you like.
> >>> 
> >>> This book is worth a read if you want to know just what's possible and
> >>> what isn't based on today's knowledge:
> >>> 
> >>> The Physics of Star Trek Paperback by Lawrence M. Krauss
> >>> 
> >>> <http://www.amazon.com/Physics-Star-Trek-Lawrence-Krauss/dp/0465002048/r
> >>> ef=sr_ 1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1425675923>
> >> 
> >> But by "today's knowledge" 1000 years ago, a computer was impossible,
> >> flying between countries in a couple of days was impossible, let alone
> >> flying to the Moon, etc. People alive today can't even start to
> >> understand what may or may not be possible in another 1000 years and
> >> more. :-)
> > 
> > That said, we can still safely say matter to energy to matter
> > transporters are mere fantasy. Some things are just too scientifically
> > improbable. 1000 (or even 100) years ago we didn't know enough to have
> > enough of a clue about such things. Today we do.
> 
> Ummmm.... ...no.
> 
> We THINK we know enough to have a clue about such things; just as a 
> thousand years ago, THEY thought they knew enough.
> 
> That's the point.

It's so _not_ the point I've started writing this three times, and
rewritten, as I had to think how to explain something too obvious to
have previously been put into words by myself.

1000 years ago we knew nothing of atomic structure, let alone quantum
physics. Thus the people of that era had no way to know matter<->energy
transmission that perfectly replicates the transmitted object down to
the quantum state, is highly unlikely. So unlikely it is effectively
fantasy. Today we do. We've gone from knowing virtually nothing, to
knowing a lot. We may still have a long way to go, but we can make
considerably better educated guesses on the basis of a lot of knowledge,
vs none at all.

-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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