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Stealth upgrade ?

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  Stealth upgrade ? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-02-26 20:01 -0500
    Re: Stealth upgrade ? Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-02-26 20:06 -0500
      Re: Stealth upgrade ? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-27 04:03 +0000
      Re: Stealth upgrade ? Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2015-02-26 23:39 -0500
        Re: Stealth upgrade ? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-27 13:37 +0000
          Re: Stealth upgrade ? Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-02-27 10:33 -0500
            Re: Stealth upgrade ? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-27 15:44 +0000
            Re: Stealth upgrade ? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-02-27 16:50 +0000
            Re: Stealth upgrade ? Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-02-27 09:14 -0800
              Re: Stealth upgrade ? Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-02-27 16:09 -0500
                Re: Stealth upgrade ? John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2015-02-27 14:16 -0800
        Re: Stealth upgrade ? Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-02-27 08:47 -0500
          Re: Stealth upgrade ? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-27 14:01 +0000
            Re: Stealth upgrade ? Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-02-27 09:12 -0500
              Re: Stealth upgrade ? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-27 14:15 +0000
          Re: Stealth upgrade ? Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2015-02-27 10:53 -0500
          Re: Stealth upgrade ? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-02-27 11:30 -0500
    Re: Stealth upgrade ? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-27 04:03 +0000
      Re: Stealth upgrade ? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-02-26 23:37 -0500
        Re: Stealth upgrade ? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-27 13:35 +0000
          Re: Stealth upgrade ? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-02-27 16:30 -0500
            Re: Stealth upgrade ? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-02-27 22:36 +0000
              Re: Stealth upgrade ? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-02-27 18:40 -0500
            Re: Stealth upgrade ? dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-02-28 12:51 +1300
              Re: Stealth upgrade ? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-02-27 19:03 -0500
                Re: Stealth upgrade ? dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-02-28 13:38 +1300
                  Re: Stealth upgrade ? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-28 02:36 +0000
                  Re: Stealth upgrade ? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-02-27 22:23 -0500
                    Re: Stealth upgrade ? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-02-28 15:04 +0000
                      Re: Stealth upgrade ? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-28 15:23 +0000
                        Re: Stealth upgrade ? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-02-28 16:52 +0000
                          Re: Stealth upgrade ? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-01 14:48 -0500
                            Re: Stealth upgrade ? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-01 19:59 +0000
                Re: Stealth upgrade ? Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-02-28 08:13 -0500
              Re: Stealth upgrade ? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-28 02:34 +0000
            Re: Stealth upgrade ? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-28 02:28 +0000
    Re: Stealth upgrade ? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-02-27 11:38 -0500
      Re: Stealth upgrade ? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-27 16:46 +0000

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#70308

On 15-02-27 08:35, Jolly Roger wrote:

> Systems that were updated displayed a notification stating that the
> update was applied, as shown here:
> 
> <http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/12/apple-automatically-patches-macs-to-fix-severe-ntp-security-flaw/>

Is there a way for me to view a log file of such events since it would
have happend about a week ago and that pop up  "growl" like message is
long gone from my screen ?

> Mac users are in full control, and nothing about this is "not openly
> acknowledged or displayed" as you claim. This is just more of your
> typical Apple trolling on display.

My question was not a complaint. I simply asked how I could verify if
Apple had applied an update using that mechanisn to my machine or not.

You are the one who turned it into a complaint.

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#70313

In article <54f0e20f$0$54700$c3e8da3$fdf4f6af@news.astraweb.com>, JF
Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

>On 15-02-27 08:35, Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>> Systems that were updated displayed a notification stating that the
>> update was applied, as shown here:
>> 
>>
>> <http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/12/apple-automatically-patches-macs-to-fix-
>> severe-ntp-security-flaw/>
>
>Is there a way for me to view a log file of such events since it would
>have happend about a week ago and that pop up  "growl" like message is
>long gone from my screen ?

You looked in your console log? Or searched it?

-- 
"People don't buy Microsoft for quality, they buy it for compatibility
with what Bob in accounting bought last year. Trace it back - they buy
Microsoft because the IBM Selectric didn't suck much" - P Seebach, afc

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#70315

On 15-02-27 17:36, Tim Streater wrote:

> You looked in your console log? Or searched it?

Look for what ?

Unless I know exactly what and where to look for, I cannot conclude that
lack of such a message indicates no background update was done.

I asked a serious question, it is unfortunate that Jolly Rogers always
twists into into some joke.

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#70316

JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> On 15-02-27 08:35, Jolly Roger wrote:
> 
> > Systems that were updated displayed a notification stating that the
> > update was applied, as shown here:
> > 
> > <http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/12/apple-automatically-patches-macs-to-
> > fix-severe-ntp-security-flaw/>
> 
> Is there a way for me to view a log file of such events since it would
> have happend about a week ago and that pop up  "growl" like message is
> long gone from my screen ?

Did you even try looking?

Apple menu > About this Mac > System Report (which runs System
Information) > Installations (under the Software heading)

If you want the gory details:

Console > Show Log List > expand /var/log > install.log

The former is an extract from the latter, specifically lines generated
by installd which start with "Installed".

App Store's Updates tab also shows installations of apps from App Store,
and anything installed via the Software Update mechanism, but it doesn't
show background updates under the "Install system data files and
security updates" category, like XProtect and a few other things, which
do show up in the above two mechanisms.

None of those automatically installed updates would have anything to do
with Wi-Fi behaviour. If you haven't installed the 10.10.2 update (which
would have forced a restart), then there must be another explanation,
such as random luck or an external cause.

> > Mac users are in full control, and nothing about this is "not openly
> > acknowledged or displayed" as you claim. This is just more of your
> > typical Apple trolling on display.
> 
> My question was not a complaint. I simply asked how I could verify if
> Apple had applied an update using that mechanisn to my machine or not.

> 
> You are the one who turned it into a complaint.


-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#70317

On 15-02-27 18:51, David Empson wrote:

> Did you even try looking?

My question was "where do I look?".  When I don't even know the exact
terminology used for those background/covert upgrades that are pushed by
Apple, it is hard to know what to look for or where to look for them.


> Apple menu > About this Mac > System Report (which runs System
> Information) > Installations (under the Software heading)
> 
> If you want the gory details:
> 
> Console > Show Log List > expand /var/log > install.log

So both show those background installs ? And I search for "Installed"
which would include both the explicit software upgrades and the ones
pushed by Apple behind the scenes ?


> None of those automatically installed updates would have anything to do
> with Wi-Fi behaviour. 

You are most likely right. But I wanted to use this apparent change in
behaviour as a way to test this and know how to look for such upgrades
in the future.

Also, in light of all the NSA revelations, knowing if still gerts
installed via those open backrgound doors becomes more important.

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#70318

JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> On 15-02-27 18:51, David Empson wrote:
> 
> > Did you even try looking?
> 
> My question was "where do I look?".  When I don't even know the exact
> terminology used for those background/covert upgrades that are pushed by
> Apple, it is hard to know what to look for or where to look for them.

I would have expected "Install" to be an obvious thing to look for, in
the usual places for logs and information about the computer.

> > Apple menu > About this Mac > System Report (which runs System
> > Information) > Installations (under the Software heading)
> > 
> > If you want the gory details:
> > 
> > Console > Show Log List > expand /var/log > install.log
> 
> So both show those background installs ?

Yes, I said that in the bit you snipped. For example, mine shows regular
items from Apple with these names:

XProtectPlistConfigData
Chinese Word List Update
Gatekeeper Configuration Data

None of those were announced via Software Update, so they must have come
in via the mechanisms enabled by "Install system data files and security
updates". They aren't shown in App Store's Updates list either.

> And I search for "Installed" which would include both the explicit
> software upgrades and the ones pushed by Apple behind the scenes ?

Yes.

System Report > Installations basically captures the "completed" line
for each installation in install.log, which look like this:

Feb 28 13:02:37 computername installd[1280]: Installed "Gatekeeper
Configuration Data" (60)

The number in square brackets is a process ID, which varies. The number
in parentheses at the end of the line is the version number of the
update. Some of them have empty parentheses, in which case System Report
doesn't indicate the version of the software which was installed, but
manually hunting back through install.log may reveal it.

System Report shows the date, name, and version number. It also somehow
knows whether it is an Apple or third-party update, but I haven't
spotted how that is identified.

> > None of those automatically installed updates would have anything to do
> > with Wi-Fi behaviour. 
> 
> You are most likely right. But I wanted to use this apparent change in
> behaviour as a way to test this and know how to look for such upgrades
> in the future.
> 
> Also, in light of all the NSA revelations, knowing if still gerts
> installed via those open backrgound doors becomes more important.


-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#70322

On 2015-02-28, David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
>
> System Report shows the date, name, and version number. It also somehow
> knows whether it is an Apple or third-party update, but I haven't
> spotted how that is identified.

It may be based on something in the receipt database.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#70323

On 15-02-27 19:38, David Empson wrote:

> I would have expected "Install" to be an obvious thing to look for, in
> the usual places for logs and information about the computer.

If I am told that those behind the scene installs always generate an
"Installed" in the log, then I know what to look for and more
importantly, know that if the search is empty, it really means that no
such install has occured.

Without that information, I cannot draw a conclusion that an empty
search means no such background install has happened (since it could be
logged with different words, or not logged at all).

So thank you for the confirmation.

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#70327

Okay, so one time? In band camp? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> was all, like:
> On 15-02-27 19:38, David Empson wrote:

>> I would have expected "Install" to be an obvious thing to look for, in
>> the usual places for logs and information about the computer.

> If I am told that those behind the scene installs always generate an

What behind the scenes installs are you inventing?

There has been exactly ONE install, ever, that was installed without
asking the user and that was the critical ntpd fix. That's it. One.

-- 
http://2blog.kreme.com
Death was familiar with the concept of the eternal, ever-renewed hero,
the champion with a thousand faces. He'd refrained from commenting.

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#70328

On 2015-02-28, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> Okay, so one time? In band camp? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> was all, like:
>> On 15-02-27 19:38, David Empson wrote:
>
>>> I would have expected "Install" to be an obvious thing to look for, in
>>> the usual places for logs and information about the computer.
>
>> If I am told that those behind the scene installs always generate an
>
> What behind the scenes installs are you inventing?

The nefarious NSA installs Apple is secretly hiding from us all, of
course!!

> There has been exactly ONE install, ever, that was installed without
> asking the user and that was the critical ntpd fix. That's it. One.

Users are in full control of it as well. While not advisable, all users
need to do to prevent installation is uncheck the "Install system data
files and security updates" check box in System Preferences > App Store
(or System Preferences > Software Update in older systems).

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#70330

Okay, so one time? In band camp? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> was all, like:
> On 2015-02-28, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> was all, like:
>>> On 15-02-27 19:38, David Empson wrote:
>>
>>>> I would have expected "Install" to be an obvious thing to look for, in
>>>> the usual places for logs and information about the computer.
>>
>>> If I am told that those behind the scene installs always generate an
>>
>> What behind the scenes installs are you inventing?

> The nefarious NSA installs Apple is secretly hiding from us all, of
> course!!

Oh, right. Those.

>> There has been exactly ONE install, ever, that was installed without
>> asking the user and that was the critical ntpd fix. That's it. One.

> Users are in full control of it as well. While not advisable, all users
> need to do to prevent installation is uncheck the "Install system data
> files and security updates" check box in System Preferences > App Store
> (or System Preferences > Software Update in older systems).

Yes, but that would be stupid.

-- 
http://2blog.kreme.com
"He had delusions of adequacy." - Walter Kerr

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#70351

FYI, no "Installed" since February 6th when I put a Flash update on laptop.


So the fact that the Wi-Fi has now started flawlessly everytime I liften
the clamshell is somewhat puzzling. Before that, it only worked perhaps
once every 10 times, with the rest forcing me to manually select my home
network after opening the mac and entering my password to unlock.

FYI, the install.log did not show me copying the skype.app and
associated library entry from my desktop to laptop. I realise that this
is not a proper "install" but it is an addition to the system that was
not logged.

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#70353

On 2015-03-01, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> FYI, no "Installed" since February 6th when I put a Flash update on laptop.
>
> So the fact that the Wi-Fi has now started flawlessly everytime I liften
> the clamshell is somewhat puzzling. Before that, it only worked perhaps
> once every 10 times, with the rest forcing me to manually select my home
> network after opening the mac and entering my password to unlock.

As you've already been told, there are many potential reasons for the
change that have nothing to do with things being installed on your
computer.

> FYI, the install.log did not show me copying the skype.app and
> associated library entry from my desktop to laptop. I realise that this
> is not a proper "install" but it is an addition to the system that was
> not logged.

No surprise there. And nobody ever claimed file copy operations were
logged.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#70325

In article <54f105ba$0$4363$b1db1813$2411a48f@news.astraweb.com>,
 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> 
> You are most likely right. But I wanted to use this apparent change in
> behaviour as a way to test this and know how to look for such upgrades
> in the future.
> 
> Also, in light of all the NSA revelations, knowing if still gerts
> installed via those open backrgound doors becomes more important.

The app store will show you "updates installed in the last 30 days" if 
that goes back far enough.
-- 
Where's the Vangelis music?
Pris' tongue is sticking out in in the wide shot after Batty has kissed her.
They have put back more tits into the Zhora dressing  room scene.
  -- notes for Blade Runner

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#70321

On 2015-02-27, David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>
>> Is there a way for me to view a log file of such events since it would
>> have happend about a week ago and that pop up  "growl" like message is
>> long gone from my screen ?
>
> Did you even try looking?
>
> Apple menu > About this Mac > System Report (which runs System
> Information) > Installations (under the Software heading)
>
> If you want the gory details:
>
> Console > Show Log List > expand /var/log > install.log
>
> The former is an extract from the latter, specifically lines generated
> by installd which start with "Installed".
>
> App Store's Updates tab also shows installations of apps from App Store,
> and anything installed via the Software Update mechanism, but it doesn't
> show background updates under the "Install system data files and
> security updates" category, like XProtect and a few other things, which
> do show up in the above two mechanisms.

You can also scan the /var/db/receipts directory to see receipts for
things that have been installed - though there is no guarantee that all
installed packages will have receipts. I do notice lots of receipts for
XProtect, though.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#70320

On 2015-02-27, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 15-02-27 08:35, Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>> Systems that were updated displayed a notification stating that the
>> update was applied, as shown here:
>> 
>> <http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/12/apple-automatically-patches-macs-to-fix-severe-ntp-security-flaw/>
>
> Is there a way for me to view a log file of such events since it would
> have happend about a week ago and that pop up  "growl" like message is
> long gone from my screen ?

Yep, as David Empson already mentioned.

>> Mac users are in full control, and nothing about this is "not openly
>> acknowledged or displayed" as you claim. This is just more of your
>> typical Apple trolling on display.
>
> My question was not a complaint.

I didn't say it as a complaint. It's one of your not-so-subtle trolls,
where you do your best to cast things that Apple does in a bad light -
in this instance by claiming that Apple did something "covertly" behind
your back.

> I simply asked how I could verify if
> Apple had applied an update using that mechanisn to my machine or not.

You did more than that. And you apparently think denying it will
magically make us forget about it or something.

> You are the one who turned it into a complaint.

All I did was call a spade a spade. If you dislike it, stop trolling.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#70292

On 2015.02.26 20:01 , JF Mezei wrote:
> Laptop. 10.10.1
>
> Used to be that opening the clamshell rarely caused the WiFi signal to
> connect. This week, it magically worked everytime I opened the laptop.
>
> I do not use the laptop long enough for it to prompt me to install newer
> versions of the OS.
>
> Since 10.10.1 is out of date, I have to assume Apple would issue
> "covert" patches for it, the types that are pushed to the laptop
> automatically without user intervention, right ?

While they may bypass user intervention, there is a notice.

AFAIR I've only seen one update that happened for security purposes 
without me "okaying" the update.

-- 
"Your net worth to the world is usually
  determined by what remains after your
  bad habits are subtracted from your good ones."
                                   Benjamin Franklin

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#70293

On 2015-02-27, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2015.02.26 20:01 , JF Mezei wrote:
>> Laptop. 10.10.1
>>
>> Used to be that opening the clamshell rarely caused the WiFi signal to
>> connect. This week, it magically worked everytime I opened the laptop.
>>
>> I do not use the laptop long enough for it to prompt me to install newer
>> versions of the OS.
>>
>> Since 10.10.1 is out of date, I have to assume Apple would issue
>> "covert" patches for it, the types that are pushed to the laptop
>> automatically without user intervention, right ?
>
> While they may bypass user intervention, there is a notice.
>
> AFAIR I've only seen one update that happened for security purposes 
> without me "okaying" the update.

There's only been one for the NTP security update, and for that one they
did nothing covert. So the track record speaks for itself.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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