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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #68560 > unrolled thread
| Started by | nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) |
|---|---|
| First post | 2015-01-19 16:50 -0700 |
| Last post | 2015-01-23 14:16 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 220 — 21 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.sys.mac.system
Gassee joins the fray nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2015-01-19 16:50 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-20 00:01 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-19 22:18 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-20 15:43 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-20 11:16 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-20 16:28 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft@me.com> - 2015-01-20 12:39 -0600
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 06:18 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2015-01-20 14:05 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 06:19 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-20 19:53 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 02:40 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lao-Ming Liu <laomingliu@gmail.com> - 2015-01-20 20:18 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 04:42 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-20 22:31 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-21 21:46 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lao-Ming Liu <laomingliu@gmail.com> - 2015-01-20 22:01 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-20 23:12 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-01-21 09:56 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2015-01-21 09:22 -0600
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 15:49 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-21 10:59 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 16:29 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 16:52 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 17:06 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 13:40 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-01-21 19:02 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 14:09 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 19:23 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 19:19 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 19:46 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 19:50 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 20:43 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 20:55 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-21 14:00 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 21:09 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 16:14 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 21:19 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 23:53 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-22 00:06 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-21 13:55 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 23:55 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-21 17:41 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 16:13 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-21 16:10 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 21:12 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 23:57 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-01-22 15:16 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 11:59 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-23 01:04 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 03:04 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-01-22 11:59 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 23:17 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-22 20:42 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-22 22:14 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 03:52 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-22 22:14 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 14:21 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2015-01-21 23:12 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-24 18:42 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-24 18:40 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 02:53 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-21 21:36 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-22 16:55 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-22 12:14 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-22 17:24 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-22 13:25 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-22 22:05 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-22 22:06 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 14:16 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 13:44 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-24 18:47 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 02:57 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-24 21:09 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-25 09:30 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-25 16:19 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-25 09:22 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 11:09 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-26 14:53 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 12:14 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-22 22:03 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 00:00 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-23 09:52 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 15:13 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-01-23 15:40 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 11:28 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 13:44 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 11:44 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:32 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:44 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:48 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:50 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 23:15 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 18:22 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-01-24 10:56 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-24 11:05 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-24 16:22 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-24 21:51 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-25 12:20 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 02:38 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-24 15:32 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 23:14 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 18:22 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:29 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-24 15:35 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-24 12:38 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:33 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:30 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:42 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:54 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 15:00 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 08:50 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-01-24 17:07 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 16:35 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-25 00:03 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-25 09:19 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 23:13 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 11:01 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-26 21:34 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 23:07 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 18:22 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 14:12 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-23 09:49 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 15:08 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-23 10:49 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 16:18 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-23 11:30 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 16:55 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-23 12:03 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 17:07 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 13:44 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 11:41 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:39 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:45 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-24 16:19 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-24 21:38 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-24 18:45 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 03:04 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 11:17 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 13:44 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 18:46 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-01-24 10:46 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-01-24 10:54 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-24 13:55 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-24 10:42 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-24 16:14 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-25 03:54 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-23 17:34 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 17:49 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-23 18:05 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 18:37 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 11:41 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 18:43 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 14:13 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 12:23 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 19:28 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:58 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:58 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-26 14:46 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-23 20:46 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-24 10:17 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 14:05 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 19:08 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 11:20 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:40 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 18:23 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 18:21 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 20:50 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-24 10:15 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-23 23:19 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-24 13:16 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 08:48 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-01-24 09:20 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-01-23 15:38 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:36 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:45 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 23:17 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-24 17:14 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-24 22:37 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-25 12:24 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:40 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-26 13:39 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 18:22 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 18:22 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 18:21 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 22:05 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 20:46 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 19:55 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 21:05 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 20:57 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 21:01 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-24 00:12 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-24 18:31 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 23:17 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 08:52 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-24 18:40 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 03:03 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-25 09:27 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-26 01:50 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-25 22:25 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-25 14:56 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 20:19 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-26 21:55 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 20:07 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 23:57 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:45 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-26 21:52 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:37 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-26 21:49 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 11:26 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-24 10:20 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:43 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:48 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:56 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 13:44 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-22 20:37 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2015-01-22 20:55 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 03:59 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-22 22:09 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 14:16 +0000
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| From | Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-24 18:40 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <B92dnddDtc33sFnJnZ2dnUU7-Y-dnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #68584 |
On 2015.01.20 21:40 , Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2015-01-21, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2015.01.20 10:43 , Jolly Roger wrote:
>>> On 2015-01-20, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>> On 2015.01.19 19:01 , Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>>> On 2015-01-19, Neill Massello <nmassello@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> on Apple's software disarray.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://www.mondaynote.com/2015/01/18/apple-software-quality-questions/>
>>>>>
>>>>> The fact that there are bugs is not evidence of a downward trend in
>>>>> quality. Logic fail.
>>>>
>>>> It may be convenient that there is no public quantifying of it - that
>>>> does not mean the opinions of the various developer/bloggers is wrong.
>>>
>>> "Look, I found another bug" is not evidence of a downward trend in
>>> quality, no matter how many times you repeat it Alan.
>>
>> I'm not the one saying it. Developers with long history with Apple are
>> saying it.
>
> The world is full of idiots. I'm a developer on Apple platforms since
> 1986. I'm not saying it. And I'm interested in evidence. So far, ZERO
> evidence of a decline in quality has been given.
Well, there are developers and there are developers. While you and some
may not see it, others are and are voicing it.
>
>>>> What is true is that Apple's R&D has ballooned. [1]
>>>>
>>>> Feature implementations have ballooned (as has complexity).
>>>
>>> As has happened several times in the past.
>>
>> Snipping out the explosion of R&D growth is convenient, huh?
>
> Nothing was snipped out. R&D expenses have little to do with software
> quality. You're blowing hot air.
Ahem. Trying to rapidly grow R&D is a sure way to do great things. At
great cost. More errors, more waste. And more opportunity for quality
loss.
Bringing in new people (even if by acquisition) doesn't mean they will
pick up quick and won't screw up.
Trying to increase the "it just works"-ness of the Apple ecosystem as
quickly as Apple are doing increases complexity and opportunity for errors.
>>>> Developers are griping - loudly. Much more loudly than ever (while
>>>> acknowledging that there have always been bugs - now they are more
>>>> prevalent and getting in the way more often.
>>>
>>> So far nobody has shown a trend. They all, like you, say "things weren't
>>> this bad before" without a shred of evidence showing that to be the
>>> case. Selective memory doesn't equate to evidence of a downward trend.
>>
>> Regretfully we don't have the Apple bug tracking report database.
>
> I can assure you Apple has it.
The point was that we're not seeing the defect rate or seriousness of
the bugs occurring. So while I can't satisfy you with statistics that
something is happening, nor can you satisfy me that it isn't.
The opinions of those who were heretofore mute on the matter indicates
something.
>
>> We won't any time soon.
>
> Then maybe you should stop talking about things you clearly don't know
> much about.
See above about what the point was that you're not getting or ducking.
>
>> But when a collective of developers are feeling
>> pain and voicing it, it's not because they don't have other things to do.
>
> Selective memory does not equate to a trend. All you have to do to prove
> your mistaken theory is show the trend. So far, you haven't been able to
> do that. Until you do, there is no reason for me (or anyone else with a
> brain) to believe your assertion that software quality is in decline.
Again, not my assertion (but certainly my feeling given the various bugs
delivered with Yosemite that I've mentioned - esp. the Mail bug (which
I've reported and I've had several back and forths with Apple via the
bug reporter - incl. the uploading of various files and folders)),
but rather the assertion of several developers who have posted their
experience and their assertion that Apple software quality has been
declining of late - and in their opinion - for the stated reasons. Too
much, too fast, too coupled to h/w releases, etc.
Given their many voices against your lone voice, you can imaging what
opinion I would tend to follow. Sorry if that's sand in your diaper.
--
"Your net worth to the world is usually
determined by what remains after your
bad habits are subtracted from your good ones."
Benjamin Franklin
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-25 02:53 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <cij44hFn0i3U4@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #68904 |
On 2015-01-24, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote: > On 2015.01.20 21:40 , Jolly Roger wrote: >> On 2015-01-21, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote: >>> On 2015.01.20 10:43 , Jolly Roger wrote: >>>> On 2015-01-20, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote: >>>>> On 2015.01.19 19:01 , Jolly Roger wrote: >>>>>> On 2015-01-19, Neill Massello <nmassello@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>> on Apple's software disarray. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <http://www.mondaynote.com/2015/01/18/apple-software-quality-questions/> >>>>>> >>>>>> The fact that there are bugs is not evidence of a downward trend in >>>>>> quality. Logic fail. >>>>> >>>>> It may be convenient that there is no public quantifying of it - that >>>>> does not mean the opinions of the various developer/bloggers is wrong. >>>> >>>> "Look, I found another bug" is not evidence of a downward trend in >>>> quality, no matter how many times you repeat it Alan. >>> >>> I'm not the one saying it. Developers with long history with Apple are >>> saying it. >> >> The world is full of idiots. I'm a developer on Apple platforms since >> 1986. I'm not saying it. And I'm interested in evidence. So far, ZERO >> evidence of a decline in quality has been given. > > Well, there are developers and there are developers. While you and some > may not see it, others are and are voicing it. It's more likely that others are forgetting all the other issues of the past and claiming these are somehow different. The only thing that is different is the landscape due to lots of big transitions that are currently underway and the many devices and services in play. I have yet to see *any* evidence of a trend showing a decline in quality. Why is that? If it's so obvious, there should be evidence, yet there is none. The fact is Apple has had release issues since the beginning, and probably always will. >> R&D expenses have little to do with software quality. You're blowing >> hot air. > > Ahem. Trying to rapidly grow R&D is a sure way to do great things. At > great cost. More errors, more waste. And more opportunity for quality > loss. Not necessarily, no. How much risk there is depends largely on the business processes in play. > Bringing in new people (even if by acquisition) doesn't mean they will > pick up quick and won't screw up. How does that apply to Yosemite exactly? Sounds like a lot of conjecture going on in your head. > Trying to increase the "it just works"-ness of the Apple ecosystem as > quickly as Apple are doing increases complexity and opportunity for errors. Again, lots of conjecture and not much factual data. The truth is only Apple knows these things. You are guessing at best. >> I can assure you Apple has it. > > The point was that we're not seeing the defect rate or seriousness of > the bugs occurring. So while I can't satisfy you with statistics that > something is happening, nor can you satisfy me that it isn't. You're the one claiming to know there is a decline. I'm simply questioning your claim. So far none of you have shown that you know what you are talking about. > The opinions of those who were heretofore mute on the matter indicates > something. Apple doesn't discuss internal stuff like this. Lots of people love to claim that's a sign of guilt. It's nothing of the sort. All those doubters do is make those within Apple that much more determined to prove them wrong. >>> We won't any time soon. >> >> Then maybe you should stop talking about things you clearly don't know >> much about. > > See above about what the point was that you're not getting or ducking. I'm ducking nothing. You and lots of others are making a claim they have no way to substantiate, and I'm simply unwilling to believe it without any evidence what-so-ever. >> Selective memory does not equate to a trend. All you have to do to prove >> your mistaken theory is show the trend. So far, you haven't been able to >> do that. Until you do, there is no reason for me (or anyone else with a >> brain) to believe your assertion that software quality is in decline. > > Again, not my assertion (but certainly my feeling given the various bugs > delivered with Yosemite that I've mentioned - esp. the Mail bug (which > I've reported and I've had several back and forths with Apple via the > bug reporter - incl. the uploading of various files and folders)), > > but rather the assertion of several developers who have posted their > experience and their assertion that Apple software quality has been > declining of late - and in their opinion - for the stated reasons. Too > much, too fast, too coupled to h/w releases, etc. Everyone has an opinion. > Given their many voices against your lone voice, you can imaging what > opinion I would tend to follow. Sorry if that's sand in your diaper. You're mistaken. I'm not alone. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-21 21:36 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <m9q27p$t0q$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #68560 |
On 2015-01-19 23:50:35 +0000, Neill Massello said: > on Apple's software disarray. > > <http://www.mondaynote.com/2015/01/18/apple-software-quality-questions/> One disturbing new "feature" in 10.10 is that my older Mac Mini (stuck on 10.6 because it's a Core Solo) suddenly couldn't connect to the AFP network. It's my iTunes / media player PC so this was a problem. After trying all kinds of voodoo shit I finally switched to SMB and it worked. Later on I heard that Apple's now recommending SMB as its default file sharing method starting with 10.10, but not from Apple - from the Apple Support Community forums. There is an awful *AWFUL* lot of stuff like this, showing first hand the second law of thermodynamics applies to software as well as other things in the physical universe. Apple needs to completely freeze new feature development and overhaul the whole system, write man pages for all the new Unix programs that are suddenly running, fix Server, and finish iWork and Maps. Sadly I doubt they will do this, as they now have the new Swift toy to play with and they will probably rewrite the whole OS in Swift piecemeal, doubtless intrucing many new bugs. While the Unix geek / programmer type might not be the market that Apple is pursuing these days, these kinds of users are the ones who got grandma, junior, and the office hooked on OS X 10 years ago in the first place. If Apple decides to simply ignore valid criticism of the continued degeneration of OS X many of these people will be switching away, and eventually so will a lot of other people.
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-22 16:55 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <cicocpF24qhU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #68651 |
On 2015-01-22, Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote: > On 2015-01-19 23:50:35 +0000, Neill Massello said: > >> on Apple's software disarray. >> >> <http://www.mondaynote.com/2015/01/18/apple-software-quality-questions/> > > One disturbing new "feature" in 10.10 is that my older Mac Mini (stuck > on 10.6 because it's a Core Solo) suddenly couldn't connect to the AFP > network. It's my iTunes / media player PC so this was a problem. > After trying all kinds of voodoo shit I finally switched to SMB and it > worked. Later on I heard that Apple's now recommending SMB as its > default file sharing method starting with 10.10, but not from Apple - > from the Apple Support Community forums. Apple announced the move to SMB way back in 2013 to developers during WWDC and in the Mavericks Core Technology Preview. You were apparently out to lunch during that time. The rest of us knew about it well in advance. So you're squarely to blame for that one: <http://www.tuaw.com/2013/06/12/apple-releases-mavericks-core-technology-overview/> > There is an awful *AWFUL* lot of stuff like this There certainly is a whole lot of stuff being said by folks making claims about things that surprised them because they didn't bother to look and listen, yes. > Apple needs to completely freeze new feature development and overhaul > the whole system Nobody wants the OS to stagnate. Perhaps it surprises people like you, but a whole lot of us really appreciate *new* functionality like Continuity and so on, which would not exist if Apple froze all new feature development. Apple would also fall behind competition if all new feature development were frozen. As an investor, that's not what I want either. Real software developers know very well that new features can be developed in tandem with software bug fixes. It's not rocket science, and organizations across the planet, including Apple, do it daily. > write man pages for all the new Unix programs that are suddenly > running They'll get around to it. In the mean time, any Unix tools that have no man pages have other means of obtaining help. BTW, which Unix programs in particular are you referencing? I note discoveryd is brand-new and it has a man page. Anyhow, the lack of a man page or three isn't indication of a decline in software quality, since many Apple Unix tools created long before Yosemite have no man pages. For instance, xattr was created long, long ago (I know it was around in 10.5) and had no man page for *years*. It did support the -h (help) flag though. And it has a man page now in Yosemite. : ) > fix Server, I use Server. It's got its rough spots, but manages my DNS, mail, web sites, caching server, network Time Machine backups, Xcode & Git repos, and so on just fine. It has rough spots that need fixing, and I have watched Apple fix many of them as time goes on with regular updates. > and finish iWork and Maps. I hardly use Pages and Keynote, but I do use Maps regularly, and it seems rather complete in functionality. My needs aren't super technical. I just need to be able to find things on the map. And for that purpose it works fine. I'm sure there are people who would like to see more edge-case functionality added, but for a whole lot of us, it's very useful. I haven't visited Google Maps in a long time now. > Sadly I doubt they will do this, Doubters gonna doubt, I guess. > as they now have the new Swift toy to play with and they will probably > rewrite the whole OS in Swift piecemeal, doubtless intrucing many new > bugs. OOOH OOOH!! My turn: I doubt it. See what I did there? : ) > While the Unix geek / programmer type might not be the market that > Apple is pursuing these days, On the contrary, tons of geeks and programmers use Apple devices, and Apple knows this very well. > these kinds of users are the ones who got grandma, junior, and the > office hooked on OS X 10 years ago in the first place. Yep. > If Apple decides to simply ignore valid criticism of the continued > degeneration of OS X many of these people will be switching away, and > eventually so will a lot of other people. So far I haven't seen a shred of evidence showing this supposed "degradation" or decline in quality. Instead, I see lots of folks who are keen to ignore the plethora of past bugs in apple software all the while claiming "but this time it's different, I swear!". Apple has a long-term vision and has more ability to focus and persevere than many other companies to get there. In the mean time, fools will bitch and moan and make wild claims that Apple is doomed or completely fucking up in one respect or another. Lucky for those of us who see and appreciate Apple's vision, Apple doesn't bow down or crumple at the drop of a hat to every fool with demands that don't align with that long-term vision. Apple's ability to stay focussed in spite of so much noise is a quality I, for one, very much appreciate and admire. In the mean time, people who act like fools can go ahead and switch away if it suits them. To them, I say, "Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out". -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-22 12:14 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <54c12ff8$0$19596$c3e8da3$b1356c67@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #68668 |
On 15-01-22 11:55, Jolly Roger wrote: > Apple announced the move to SMB way back in 2013 to developers during > WWDC and in the Mavericks Core Technology Preview. At that time, wasn't it an announcement concerning a move to a new version of SMB done by Apple (instead of open sourced product) ? As I recall, publicly, it was at Yosemite announcement in 2014 that Apple announced it would now default to SMB, but STILL SUPPORT AFP. This means that there is no reason for AFP to break, and AFP has not been de-supported nor has a phase out been announced (although one can see it coming in a few years depending on how Apple handles it). FYI, on my Yosemite laptop, AFP to cnnecrt to my XSERVE (Snow Leopard) works just as it did with Snow Leopard.
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-22 17:24 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <cicq35F35fjU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #68671 |
On 2015-01-22, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote: > On 15-01-22 11:55, Jolly Roger wrote: > >> Apple announced the move to SMB way back in 2013 to developers during >> WWDC and in the Mavericks Core Technology Preview. > > At that time, wasn't it an announcement concerning a move to a new > version of SMB done by Apple (instead of open sourced product) ? > > As I recall, publicly, it was at Yosemite announcement in 2014 that > Apple announced it would now default to SMB, but STILL SUPPORT AFP. Perhaps, but the point is Apple *did* announce it to the world *before* making the change. If some folks didn't bother to listen, that's their problem. > This means that there is no reason for AFP to break, and AFP has not > been de-supported nor has a phase out been announced (although one can > see it coming in a few years depending on how Apple handles it). Supporting AFP doesn't mean AFP will be enabled by default. And since we don't know the details regarding how he was trying to connect to it, there's a lot of potential for fuckups on his end. > FYI, on my Yosemite laptop, AFP to cnnecrt to my XSERVE (Snow Leopard) > works just as it did with Snow Leopard. Same here. I just tried connecting to afp://server (which is my home server running Yosemite) and it worked fine, albeit a little slower than the default SMB connection. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-22 13:25 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <m9rprf$sa1$1@news.datemas.de> |
| In reply to | #68671 |
On 2015-01-22 17:14:31 +0000, JF Mezei said: > On 15-01-22 11:55, Jolly Roger wrote: > >> Apple announced the move to SMB way back in 2013 to developers during >> WWDC and in the Mavericks Core Technology Preview. > > At that time, wasn't it an announcement concerning a move to a new > version of SMB done by Apple (instead of open sourced product) ? > > As I recall, publicly, it was at Yosemite announcement in 2014 that > Apple announced it would now default to SMB, but STILL SUPPORT AFP. You are remembering incorrectly: "SMB2 SMB2 is the new default protocol for sharing files in OS X Mavericks. SMB2 is superfast, increases security, and improves Windows compatibility." <http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:njJ6mLndrDAJ:www.apple.com/media/us/osx/2013/docs/OSX_Mavericks_Core_Technology_Overview.pdf+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca> > > This means that there is no reason for AFP to break, and AFP has not > been de-supported nor has a phase out been announced (although one can > see it coming in a few years depending on how Apple handles it). > > FYI, on my Yosemite laptop, AFP to cnnecrt to my XSERVE (Snow Leopard) > works just as it did with Snow Leopard.
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-22 22:05 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <cidahhF76n9U6@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #68701 |
On 2015-01-22, Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> wrote: > On 2015-01-22 17:14:31 +0000, JF Mezei said: > >> On 15-01-22 11:55, Jolly Roger wrote: >> >>> Apple announced the move to SMB way back in 2013 to developers during >>> WWDC and in the Mavericks Core Technology Preview. >> >> At that time, wasn't it an announcement concerning a move to a new >> version of SMB done by Apple (instead of open sourced product) ? >> >> As I recall, publicly, it was at Yosemite announcement in 2014 that >> Apple announced it would now default to SMB, but STILL SUPPORT AFP. > > You are remembering incorrectly: > > "SMB2 > SMB2 is the new default protocol for sharing files in OS X Mavericks. > SMB2 is superfast, > increases security, and improves Windows compatibility." > ><http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:njJ6mLndrDAJ:www.apple.com/media/us/osx/2013/docs/OSX_Mavericks_Core_Technology_Overview.pdf+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca> Thanks. I didn't care enough to take the time to verify it. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-22 22:06 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <m9socd$84k$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #68671 |
On 2015-01-22 17:14:31 +0000, JF Mezei said: > On 15-01-22 11:55, Jolly Roger wrote: > >> Apple announced the move to SMB way back in 2013 to developers during >> WWDC and in the Mavericks Core Technology Preview. > > At that time, wasn't it an announcement concerning a move to a new > version of SMB done by Apple (instead of open sourced product) ? > > As I recall, publicly, it was at Yosemite announcement in 2014 that > Apple announced it would now default to SMB, but STILL SUPPORT AFP. > > This means that there is no reason for AFP to break, and AFP has not > been de-supported nor has a phase out been announced (although one can > see it coming in a few years depending on how Apple handles it). > > FYI, on my Yosemite laptop, AFP to cnnecrt to my XSERVE (Snow Leopard) > works just as it did with Snow Leopard. Apple should not be removing support for AFP, period. It's an Apple technology and Apple was very emphatic for many years that it was *THE* way to network your Macs. Anyway while Apple may have announced something to some developers (?) I'm in the ADC program and have been for about a decade, and I didn't get that memo. Not acceptable, Apple. Microsoft's latest server products will still happily network with Windows NT.
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-23 14:16 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <cif3dgFlcqdU3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #68736 |
On 2015-01-23, Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Apple should not be removing support for AFP, period. Apple should, first and foremost, do what best serves the needs of its core user base and long-term vision. That said, Apple hasn't removed AFP support - just deprecated it in favor of SMB. > It's an Apple technology and Apple was very emphatic for many years > that it was *THE* way to network your Macs. For its time it was way better than alternatives in several measurable ways. > Anyway while Apple may have announced something to some developers (?) > I'm in the ADC program and have been for about a decade, and I didn't > get that memo. Then you haven't been paying attention. That's your problem. The res of us knew about it well in advance. > Not acceptable, Apple. Microsoft's latest server products will still > happily network with Windows NT. And they are full of similar cruft holding them back, too. No thanks. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-23 13:44 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <230120151344495723%nospam@nospam.invalid> |
| In reply to | #68736 |
In article <m9socd$84k$1@dont-email.me>, Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote: > Apple should not be removing support for AFP, period. It's an Apple > technology and Apple was very emphatic for many years that it was *THE* > way to network your Macs. Anyway while Apple may have announced > something to some developers (?) I'm in the ADC program and have been > for about a decade, and I didn't get that memo. afp was 'the' way 30 years ago. it's not anymore. > Not acceptable, Apple. Microsoft's latest server products will still > happily network with Windows NT. that's one reason why microsoft is stagnating and has lost the game for mobile and is hurting for the desktop. windows 8 is a dud and cost ballmer his job (among other fuckups).
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| From | Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-24 18:47 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <j-udnRjX7cayslnJnZ2dnUU7-K-dnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #68668 |
On 2015.01.22 11:55 , Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2015-01-22, Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Apple needs to completely freeze new feature development and overhaul
>> the whole system
>
> Nobody wants the OS to stagnate. Perhaps it surprises people like you,
> but a whole lot of us really appreciate *new* functionality like
> Continuity and so on, which would not exist if Apple froze all new
Continuity has worked exactly 2 times since I got the iPhone 6. Any
attempt to get it to work to see if it works has failed. The sole one
time that it would actually have been really, really useful it failed
(with a helpful message to that effect).
So, no, don't add more features until the existing ones work.
Especially where so many of these features are building blocks for other
features. So if they are flawed now and not fixed soon, building upon
them is not going to be a successful pursuit.
Indeed some of those awful developers out their claiming a decline in
Apple s/w quality have voiced the same thing: get the "it just works"
to actually work (consistently) before continuing the feature invention
cycles.
--
"Your net worth to the world is usually
determined by what remains after your
bad habits are subtracted from your good ones."
Benjamin Franklin
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-25 02:57 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <cij4c2Fn0i3U5@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #68906 |
On 2015-01-24, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote: > On 2015.01.22 11:55 , Jolly Roger wrote: >> On 2015-01-22, Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>> Apple needs to completely freeze new feature development and overhaul >>> the whole system >> >> Nobody wants the OS to stagnate. Perhaps it surprises people like you, >> but a whole lot of us really appreciate *new* functionality like >> Continuity and so on, which would not exist if Apple froze all new > > Continuity has worked exactly 2 times since I got the iPhone 6. Any > attempt to get it to work to see if it works has failed. The sole one > time that it would actually have been really, really useful it failed > (with a helpful message to that effect). That's not my experience at all. Nor is it my wife's experience, or any of the family or friends I have who use it. I actually use it quite a bit, and I don't even have an iPhone 6. I absolutely love it. And I know I'm not an anomaly. > So, no, don't add more features until the existing ones work. Disagree wholeheartedly. These things *do* work for the vast majority of people as far as I can tell. Bring on the cutting edge features! I love them. > Especially where so many of these features are building blocks for other > features. So if they are flawed now and not fixed soon, building upon > them is not going to be a successful pursuit. Issues are being fixed at a steady pace, as far as I can tell. > Indeed some of those awful developers out their claiming a decline in > Apple s/w quality have voiced the same thing: get the "it just works" > to actually work (consistently) before continuing the feature invention > cycles. Like I said, everyone has an opinion. Not everyone knows what's really going on inside Apple. And that's just fine with me. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-24 21:09 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <240120152109401433%michelle@michelle.org> |
| In reply to | #68920 |
In article <cij4c2Fn0i3U5@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote: > Like I said, everyone has an opinion. Not everyone knows what's really > going on inside Apple. I know what's really going on inside Apple: top secret stuff that they're not sharing with anyone outside of Apple. But that's not all: there's also secret tuff that they're sharing with a select few outside of Apple. But I'm sure that everyone knows that. Even the GEICO Gecko knows that.
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| From | Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-25 09:30 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <54c4fe21$0$32451$c3e8da3$cc4fe22d@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #68924 |
In article <240120152109401433%michelle@michelle.org>, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote: > I know what's really going on inside Apple: top secret stuff that > they're not sharing with anyone outside of Apple. But that's not all: > there's also secret tuff that they're sharing with a select few outside > of Apple. You know that they'll send a hit squad of elite Apple commandos to take you out if you say much more. Or maybe just the Cupertino Sniper. I had some secret tuff for a while, but the neighbo(u)rs found out and I had to get rid of it. -- Where's the Vangelis music? Pris' tongue is sticking out in in the wide shot after Batty has kissed her. They have put back more tits into the Zhora dressing room scene. -- notes for Blade Runner
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| From | sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-25 16:19 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ma3525$era$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #68933 |
On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 09:30:56 -0500, Warren Oates wrote:
> In article <240120152109401433%michelle@michelle.org>,
> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>
>> I know what's really going on inside Apple: top secret stuff that
>> they're not sharing with anyone outside of Apple. But that's not all:
>> there's also secret tuff that they're sharing with a select few outside
>> of Apple.
>
> You know that they'll send a hit squad of elite Apple commandos to take
> you out if you say much more. Or maybe just the Cupertino Sniper.
>
> I had some secret tuff for a while, but the neighbo(u)rs found out and I
> had to get rid of it.
WHOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEEEEE!! ,,,www.americansniper.com
Blueberry doggie says that eatin' popcorn in the Great Land
Mass is good fer ya!
Google,,,www.cupertinosnipereatinorvilleredenbacher.com
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| From | Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-25 09:22 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <250120150922370193%michelle@michelle.org> |
| In reply to | #68933 |
In article <54c4fe21$0$32451$c3e8da3$cc4fe22d@news.astraweb.com>, Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> wrote: > > I know what's really going on inside Apple: top secret stuff that > > they're not sharing with anyone outside of Apple. But that's not all: > > there's also secret tuff that they're sharing with a select few outside > > of Apple. > > You know that they'll send a hit squad of elite Apple commandos to take > you out if you say much more. Or maybe just the Cupertino Sniper. That's one reason I didn't say any more. The other reason is that I don't know any more. (One of those two sentences is a lie.) > I had some secret tuff for a while, but the neighbo(u)rs found out and > I had to get rid of it. You should have got rid of the neighbor(s). -- Michelle
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| From | Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-26 11:09 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnmcc83h.v83.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #68906 |
Okay, so one time? In band camp? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> was all, like: > On 2015.01.22 11:55 , Jolly Roger wrote: >> On 2015-01-22, Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> Apple needs to completely freeze new feature development and overhaul >>> the whole system >> >> Nobody wants the OS to stagnate. Perhaps it surprises people like you, >> but a whole lot of us really appreciate *new* functionality like >> Continuity and so on, which would not exist if Apple froze all new > Continuity has worked exactly 2 times since I got the iPhone 6. Any > attempt to get it to work to see if it works has failed. The sole one > time that it would actually have been really, really useful it failed > (with a helpful message to that effect). I use it and hand-off every single day. It's changed, entirely, how I use my iPhone when I'm at home. Most Text messages I send now are sent from my computer. Or maybe my iPad. Nearly never from my actual phone. I don't carry my phone at home because my iPad or Mac will ring when a call comes in, so I don't have to go check who called me. My iPad gets on the Internet when i am out and about by turning on the hotspot in my pocket without my having to take out my phone. Brilliant. Yeah, Continuity is the biggest game-changer in iOS since they added the App Store. -- http://2blog.kreme.com
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-26 14:53 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <cin2o6FntefU3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #69000 |
On 2015-01-26, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote: > Okay, so one time? In band camp? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> was all, like: >> On 2015.01.22 11:55 , Jolly Roger wrote: >>> On 2015-01-22, Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>>> Apple needs to completely freeze new feature development and overhaul >>>> the whole system >>> >>> Nobody wants the OS to stagnate. Perhaps it surprises people like you, >>> but a whole lot of us really appreciate *new* functionality like >>> Continuity and so on, which would not exist if Apple froze all new > >> Continuity has worked exactly 2 times since I got the iPhone 6. Any >> attempt to get it to work to see if it works has failed. The sole one >> time that it would actually have been really, really useful it failed >> (with a helpful message to that effect). > > I use it and hand-off every single day. It's changed, entirely, how I > use my iPhone when I'm at home. > > Most Text messages I send now are sent from my computer. Or maybe my > iPad. Nearly never from my actual phone. I don't carry my phone at home > because my iPad or Mac will ring when a call comes in, so I don't have > to go check who called me. My iPad gets on the Internet when i am out > and about by turning on the hotspot in my pocket without my having to > take out my phone. Brilliant. > > Yeah, Continuity is the biggest game-changer in iOS since they added the > App Store. Yep. It's huge for both iOS and Mac OS. It's huge for Apple's customers. And it's part of the whole Back to Mac effort that some here are so quick to denigrate. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-22 12:14 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <54c12feb$0$24588$c3e8da3$f6268168@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #68651 |
In article <m9q27p$t0q$1@dont-email.me>, Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote: > the whole system, write man pages for all the new Unix programs that > are suddenly running, Which ones? -- Where's the Vangelis music? Pris' tongue is sticking out in in the wide shot after Batty has kissed her. They have put back more tits into the Zhora dressing room scene. -- notes for Blade Runner
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