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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #68560 > unrolled thread
| Started by | nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) |
|---|---|
| First post | 2015-01-19 16:50 -0700 |
| Last post | 2015-01-23 14:16 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 220 — 21 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.sys.mac.system
Gassee joins the fray nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2015-01-19 16:50 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-20 00:01 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-19 22:18 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-20 15:43 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-20 11:16 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-20 16:28 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft@me.com> - 2015-01-20 12:39 -0600
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 06:18 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2015-01-20 14:05 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 06:19 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-20 19:53 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 02:40 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lao-Ming Liu <laomingliu@gmail.com> - 2015-01-20 20:18 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 04:42 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-20 22:31 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-21 21:46 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lao-Ming Liu <laomingliu@gmail.com> - 2015-01-20 22:01 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-20 23:12 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-01-21 09:56 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2015-01-21 09:22 -0600
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 15:49 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-21 10:59 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 16:29 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 16:52 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 17:06 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 13:40 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-01-21 19:02 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 14:09 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 19:23 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 19:19 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 19:46 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 19:50 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 20:43 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 20:55 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-21 14:00 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 21:09 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 16:14 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 21:19 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 23:53 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-22 00:06 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-21 13:55 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 23:55 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-21 17:41 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 16:13 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-21 16:10 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 21:12 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 23:57 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-01-22 15:16 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 11:59 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-23 01:04 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 03:04 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-01-22 11:59 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 23:17 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-22 20:42 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-22 22:14 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 03:52 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-22 22:14 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 14:21 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2015-01-21 23:12 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-24 18:42 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-24 18:40 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 02:53 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-21 21:36 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-22 16:55 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-22 12:14 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-22 17:24 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-22 13:25 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-22 22:05 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-22 22:06 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 14:16 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 13:44 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-24 18:47 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 02:57 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-24 21:09 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-25 09:30 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-25 16:19 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-25 09:22 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 11:09 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-26 14:53 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 12:14 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-22 22:03 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 00:00 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-23 09:52 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 15:13 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-01-23 15:40 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 11:28 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 13:44 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 11:44 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:32 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:44 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:48 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:50 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 23:15 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 18:22 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-01-24 10:56 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-24 11:05 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-24 16:22 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-24 21:51 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-25 12:20 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 02:38 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-24 15:32 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 23:14 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 18:22 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:29 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-24 15:35 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-24 12:38 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:33 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:30 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:42 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:54 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 15:00 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 08:50 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-01-24 17:07 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 16:35 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-25 00:03 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-25 09:19 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 23:13 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 11:01 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-26 21:34 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 23:07 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 18:22 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 14:12 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-23 09:49 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 15:08 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-23 10:49 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 16:18 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-23 11:30 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 16:55 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-23 12:03 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 17:07 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 13:44 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 11:41 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:39 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:45 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-24 16:19 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-24 21:38 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-24 18:45 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 03:04 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 11:17 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 13:44 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 18:46 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-01-24 10:46 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-01-24 10:54 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-24 13:55 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-24 10:42 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-24 16:14 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-25 03:54 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-23 17:34 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 17:49 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-23 18:05 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 18:37 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 11:41 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 18:43 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 14:13 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 12:23 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 19:28 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:58 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:58 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-26 14:46 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-23 20:46 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-24 10:17 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 14:05 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 19:08 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 11:20 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:40 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 18:23 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 18:21 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 20:50 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-24 10:15 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-23 23:19 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-24 13:16 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 08:48 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-01-24 09:20 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-01-23 15:38 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:36 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:45 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 23:17 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-24 17:14 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-24 22:37 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-25 12:24 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:40 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-26 13:39 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 18:22 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 18:22 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 18:21 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 22:05 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 20:46 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 19:55 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 21:05 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 20:57 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 21:01 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-24 00:12 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-24 18:31 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 23:17 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 08:52 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-24 18:40 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 03:03 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-25 09:27 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-26 01:50 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-25 22:25 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-25 14:56 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 20:19 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-26 21:55 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 20:07 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 23:57 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:45 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-26 21:52 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:37 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-26 21:49 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 11:26 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-24 10:20 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:43 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:48 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:56 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 13:44 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-22 20:37 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2015-01-22 20:55 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 03:59 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-22 22:09 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 14:16 +0000
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-21 15:49 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <cia03qFb8mdU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #68588 |
On 2015-01-21, Lao-Ming Liu <laomingliu@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tuesday, January 20, 2015 at 8:42:33 PM UTC-8, Jolly Roger wrote: >> >> My life is filled with joy. If that upsets you so be it. : ) It may >> surprise you to know that your snide personal insults don't equate to >> evidence of a downward trend in software quality either. Anyone can >> claim anything without backing it up with real evidence; but few can do >> it without coming off looking like a fool. I don't debate that Apple >> software has bug. It always has and perhaps always will. There have been >> times when there were many bugs, and times when there were few. This is >> the natural way with complex software. All I have done from the >> beginning regarding this silly debate is ask for evidence of a downward >> trend in software quality, yet not a single one of you has been able to >> provide a shred. Saying empty things out of ignorance seems to be the >> rule of the day for many. And calling those who ask for you to prove >> your assertions "fan boys" doesn't help your case at all. You too have >> failed in the simple task of backing up your assertion with evidence. >> More fool you. > > Yeah, your life is so filled with joy that you're constantly at odds > with everybody on this newsgroup. I am hardly at odds with everybody in this group. So your analysis is flat-out wrong. And that comes as no surprise since you are plainly trolling. You still have not offered a single shred of evidence supporting the assertion that Apple software quality is in decline. You're failing spectacularly. > But no one here really cares about your life. You're the one that brought it up - not me. What does that tell you? > It's your daily behavior here that matters ... which you > clearly refuse to see. My behavior with regard to this particular topic has been to remain skeptical of the claim that Apple's software quality is in decline until someone, anyone, presents evidence showing that assertion to be true. So far, the best anyone has been able to say is that there are bugs, which is not evidence of a downward trend. My behavior is to search for the truth. So far, this assertion does not ring true. Your failure to present a valid case for this assertion doesn't equate to my failure to see. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-21 10:59 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <54bfccef$0$41759$c3e8da3$5d8fb80f@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #68598 |
On 15-01-21 10:49, Jolly Roger wrote: > I am hardly at odds with everybody in this group. So your analysis is > flat-out wrong. But the number of people you are insulting grows whenever there are news that are negative towards Apple and more people come out of the woodwork to agree with the problem. And the way you insult people is very condescending. I think even real Apple employees would know to be more professional. You could simply respond with "I dont share your opninion" instead of "you are a total idiot who knows nothing". But it appears this newsgroup is populated by your fan club with only a few of us who have the courage to report both good and bad news about apple. Automatic connection to a Wi-Fi when you open your laptop is a very basic feature which used to work fine. It no longer works. Even Apple admitted there was a problem and *tried* to fix it with 10.10.1 and failed. rewind a few years, and Apple was populated by A-listers because Apple managemenet hired the best of the best. Introduce fast growth and what happens ? You start to hire less than great programmers, and because of overly ambitious deadlines set by folks other than engineering (marketing, legal etc), you get reduced software quality assurance. It doesn't takle Einstein to see what has happpened. Since you have not access to the Apple bug report, you cannot state that there is no evidence that the number of bugs has risen. But I can state that in my personal experience, Yosemite is more buggy than Snow Leopard because I experience more problems with it.
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-21 16:29 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <cia2etFb8mdU5@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #68600 |
On 2015-01-21, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote: > On 15-01-21 10:49, Jolly Roger wrote: > >> I am hardly at odds with everybody in this group. So your analysis is >> flat-out wrong. > > But the number of people you are insulting grows whenever there are > news that are negative towards Apple and more people come out of the > woodwork to agree with the problem. Stating that you have failed to back up your assertion isn't an insult - it's a fact. If you feel insulted by the truth, you should change your behavior. > And the way you insult people is very condescending. I think even real > Apple employees would know to be more professional. I don't have much time for diplomacy, and I don't respect opinions that are untrue or based on pure ignorance. You'll just have to deal with that in the best way you can. One sure thing you can do to minimize having your feelings hurt is stop repeating assertions without backing them up with factual data. > You could simply respond with "I dont share your opninion" instead of > "you are a total idiot who knows nothing". I never uttered those words. Nice try at putting words in my mouth. Go back and re-read what I did say, this time focussing on comprehension. > But it appears this newsgroup is populated by your fan club with only a > few of us who have the courage to report both good and bad news about apple. No, it appears that you and others have made assertions you are either unwilling, or more likely, unable to prove, and I have insisted on seeing proof of your assertion before I believe it. I definitely do not have a "fan club" here, as most anyone here will tell you. I, like any other human, have my own personality faults and rough edges. My friends will be the first to tell you I am no superstar - nor do I want to be. > Automatic connection to a Wi-Fi when you open your laptop is a very > basic feature which used to work fine. It no longer works. Even Apple > admitted there was a problem and *tried* to fix it with 10.10.1 and failed. There is obviously a bug in 10.10 that effects some subset of the Mac user base; but it's certainly not "no longer working" for everyone. It works just fine for many, many people with many different models of Mac. Get this through your head: The mere existence of a bug does not a trend make. > rewind a few years, and Apple was populated by A-listers because Apple > managemenet hired the best of the best. Introduce fast growth and what > happens ? You start to hire less than great programmers, and because > of overly ambitious deadlines set by folks other than engineering > (marketing, legal etc), you get reduced software quality assurance. More pure conjecture from a position of pure ignorance. You have no idea how talented the people Apple employs are, nor do you know what deadlines are set by whom within Apple, and you have yet to produce a single shred of evidence supporting your claim that software quality is in fact declining. All you have been able to do is show that there are bugs, just as there have been since the beginning of software development, and probably always will. > It doesn't takle Einstein to see what has happpened. Correct. It simply takes actual knowledge of the facts - something you are sorely lacking since you have zero visibility into Apple's inner workings. What you are left with is conjecture based on ignorance. And that's simply not good enough. > Since you have not access to the Apple bug report, you cannot state > that there is no evidence that the number of bugs has risen. I'm not the one making the claim here - you are. Therefore the burden of proof is yours. If you cannot provide a shred of evidence showing that your claim is true that software quality has declined, you are failing to meet this burden. It's that simple. > But I can state that in my personal experience, Yosemite is more buggy > than Snow Leopard because I experience more problems with it. That's not the same thing as an overall decline in software quality. Various OS releases have been buggier than others throughout Apple's history. That the latest one is more buggy than others is nothing new. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-21 16:52 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnmbvmaf.cj7.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #68600 |
Okay, so one time? In band camp? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> was all, like: > On 15-01-21 10:49, Jolly Roger wrote: >> I am hardly at odds with everybody in this group. So your analysis is >> flat-out wrong. > But the number of people you are insulting grows whenever there are news > that are negative towards Apple and more people come out of the woodwork > to agree with the problem. There's a few idiots and a few trolls. The numbers aren't changing to any significant degree. > You could simply respond with "I dont share your opninion" instead of > "you are a total idiot who knows nothing". If the shoes fits... > But it appears this newsgroup is populated by your fan club with only a > few of us who have the courage to report both good and bad news about apple. So, is it "few" or "many" Make up your mind, dumbass. > Automatic connection to a Wi-Fi when you open your laptop is a very > basic feature which used to work fine. And still does. > It no longer works. Not true. > Even Apple admitted there was a problem and *tried* to fix it with > 10.10.1 and failed. Some tiny percentage of people having a problem is not a general problem. You do not seem to understand this. > rewind a few years, and Apple was populated by A-listers because Apple > managemenet hired the best of the best. Was this before or after the iTunes update that deleted some people's external hard drives if they named them very very stupidly? Before or after the first iteration of File Vault? <insert another 100 examples here, available from Google> > you get reduced software quality assurance. No, you get an idiot who continues to make complete unsubstantiated claims on a topic he knows less than nothing about. -- http://2blog.kreme.com
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-21 17:06 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <cia4kpFb8mdU6@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #68602 |
On 2015-01-21, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote: > Okay, so one time? In band camp? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> was all, like: > >> rewind a few years, and Apple was populated by A-listers because Apple >> managemenet hired the best of the best. > > Was this before or after the iTunes update that deleted some people's > external hard drives if they named them very very stupidly? In fairness, it wasn't that the hard drives were named badly, but simply that the hard drive names contained *spaces*. iTunes issued some commands in a shell without properly quoting the relevant paths. The spaces in the name along with the omission of quoting caused the shell to incorrectly interpret the path as two separate paths. Quoting paths in shell commands is a long-known best practice that should have been caught; but mistakes do happen - even to the best of us. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-21 13:40 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <210120151340040733%nospam@nospam.invalid> |
| In reply to | #68603 |
In article <cia4kpFb8mdU6@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote: > >> rewind a few years, and Apple was populated by A-listers because Apple > >> managemenet hired the best of the best. > > > > Was this before or after the iTunes update that deleted some people's > > external hard drives if they named them very very stupidly? > > In fairness, it wasn't that the hard drives were named badly, but simply > that the hard drive names contained *spaces*. iTunes issued some > commands in a shell without properly quoting the relevant paths. The > spaces in the name along with the omission of quoting caused the shell > to incorrectly interpret the path as two separate paths. Quoting paths > in shell commands is a long-known best practice that should have been > caught; but mistakes do happen - even to the best of us. mistakes happen, but the itunes 2.0 debacle was not a mistake. it was because apple didn't test it properly. spaces in file names go back to the very first mac, at a minimum. it wasn't a new concept. ignoring that possibility in their testing was negligence.
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| From | Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-21 19:02 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <210120151902429858%timstreater@greenbee.net> |
| In reply to | #68604 |
In article <210120151340040733%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote: >In article <cia4kpFb8mdU6@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger ><jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote: > >> >> rewind a few years, and Apple was populated by A-listers because Apple >> >> managemenet hired the best of the best. >> > >> > Was this before or after the iTunes update that deleted some people's >> > external hard drives if they named them very very stupidly? >> >> In fairness, it wasn't that the hard drives were named badly, but simply >> that the hard drive names contained *spaces*. iTunes issued some >> commands in a shell without properly quoting the relevant paths. The >> spaces in the name along with the omission of quoting caused the shell >> to incorrectly interpret the path as two separate paths. Quoting paths >> in shell commands is a long-known best practice that should have been >> caught; but mistakes do happen - even to the best of us. > >mistakes happen, but the itunes 2.0 debacle was not a mistake. it was >because apple didn't test it properly. spaces in file names go back to >the very first mac, at a minimum. it wasn't a new concept. Sure. And if you supply the filename to the OS via an API, there won't be any problems. It's going via the shell that screws you up if you don't remember that the shell is rather more primitive. I've been using the Mac for 30 years and still made that mistake. -- "Please stop telling us what you feel. Please stop telling us what your intuition is. Your intuitive feelings are of no interest whatsoever, and nor are mine. I don't give a bugger what you feel, or what I feel. I want to know what the evidence shows." -- Richard Dawkins
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| From | nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-21 14:09 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <210120151409085368%nospam@nospam.invalid> |
| In reply to | #68605 |
In article <210120151902429858%timstreater@greenbee.net>, Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote: > >> >> rewind a few years, and Apple was populated by A-listers because Apple > >> >> managemenet hired the best of the best. > >> > > >> > Was this before or after the iTunes update that deleted some people's > >> > external hard drives if they named them very very stupidly? > >> > >> In fairness, it wasn't that the hard drives were named badly, but simply > >> that the hard drive names contained *spaces*. iTunes issued some > >> commands in a shell without properly quoting the relevant paths. The > >> spaces in the name along with the omission of quoting caused the shell > >> to incorrectly interpret the path as two separate paths. Quoting paths > >> in shell commands is a long-known best practice that should have been > >> caught; but mistakes do happen - even to the best of us. > > > >mistakes happen, but the itunes 2.0 debacle was not a mistake. it was > >because apple didn't test it properly. spaces in file names go back to > >the very first mac, at a minimum. it wasn't a new concept. > > Sure. And if you supply the filename to the OS via an API, there won't > be any problems. It's going via the shell that screws you up if you > don't remember that the shell is rather more primitive. I've been using > the Mac for 30 years and still made that mistake. you're not writing an app for public distribution, nor does what you do go through q/a testing, which is there to catch mistakes by those who build the product. at the end of the day, apple didn't test the possibility where a hard drive name could have a space in the middle, which is why it slipped through. it's negligence, not a mistake.
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-21 19:23 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ciackuFb8mdU9@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #68606 |
On 2015-01-21, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote: > In article <210120151902429858%timstreater@greenbee.net>, Tim Streater ><timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote: > >> >> >> rewind a few years, and Apple was populated by A-listers because Apple >> >> >> managemenet hired the best of the best. >> >> > >> >> > Was this before or after the iTunes update that deleted some people's >> >> > external hard drives if they named them very very stupidly? >> >> >> >> In fairness, it wasn't that the hard drives were named badly, but simply >> >> that the hard drive names contained *spaces*. iTunes issued some >> >> commands in a shell without properly quoting the relevant paths. The >> >> spaces in the name along with the omission of quoting caused the shell >> >> to incorrectly interpret the path as two separate paths. Quoting paths >> >> in shell commands is a long-known best practice that should have been >> >> caught; but mistakes do happen - even to the best of us. >> > >> >mistakes happen, but the itunes 2.0 debacle was not a mistake. it was >> >because apple didn't test it properly. spaces in file names go back to >> >the very first mac, at a minimum. it wasn't a new concept. >> >> Sure. And if you supply the filename to the OS via an API, there won't >> be any problems. It's going via the shell that screws you up if you >> don't remember that the shell is rather more primitive. I've been using >> the Mac for 30 years and still made that mistake. > > you're not writing an app for public distribution, nor does what you do > go through q/a testing, which is there to catch mistakes by those who > build the product. > > at the end of the day, apple didn't test the possibility where a hard > drive name could have a space in the middle, which is why it slipped > through. it's negligence, not a mistake. It's both a mistake and negligence, probably brought on by a push from upper management to shun tried-and-true Apple technologies in favor of more rigid and less functional NeXT technologies. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-21 19:19 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ciaceqFb8mdU8@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #68604 |
On 2015-01-21, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote: > In article <cia4kpFb8mdU6@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger ><jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote: > >> >> rewind a few years, and Apple was populated by A-listers because Apple >> >> managemenet hired the best of the best. >> > >> > Was this before or after the iTunes update that deleted some people's >> > external hard drives if they named them very very stupidly? >> >> In fairness, it wasn't that the hard drives were named badly, but simply >> that the hard drive names contained *spaces*. iTunes issued some >> commands in a shell without properly quoting the relevant paths. The >> spaces in the name along with the omission of quoting caused the shell >> to incorrectly interpret the path as two separate paths. Quoting paths >> in shell commands is a long-known best practice that should have been >> caught; but mistakes do happen - even to the best of us. > > mistakes happen, but the itunes 2.0 debacle was not a mistake. it was > because apple didn't test it properly. spaces in file names go back to > the very first mac, at a minimum. it wasn't a new concept. ignoring > that possibility in their testing was negligence. Definitely. Also of note is that this happened with the iTunes 2.0 installer, which was released around November of 2001, the same month that Apple published the now infamous technical note TN2034, "Mac OS X Programming Guidelines" (written largely by Avi Tevanian) that promoted dumb NeXT technologies over older and better Apple technologies, and caused such a shit storm or protest from Mac developers that Apple pulled the technical note shortly afterwards. Here's a couple pertinent sections from that idiotic technical note: "Use file extensions If your application creates documents, those documents should be saved under the filename extensions claimed by the application in its Info.plist. Your application may use type and creator codes as an additional means of document typing, but extensions are essential because they are more durable. As with resource-fork data, type and creator codes (which are stored in the Finder Info fork) can be stripped off as a file travels between different file systems. Unless a user deliberately removes them, file extensions are left intact. More information here: http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/ macosx/ReleaseNotes/FileExtensionGuidelines.html Investigate using path-based file-system APIs Paths provide the native access to files on a volume-format independent operating system like Mac OS X. All other mechanisms, such as FSRefs and FSSpecs, are built on top of paths and therefore incur some performance cost. This cost can be considerable when converting back and forth in between paths (or CFRURLs) and FSRefs (or FSSpecs). When developing for Mac OS X, consider using POSIX paths and CFURLs to represent your files, especially CFURLs. CFURL performs all translations between different file-system representations, can handle path components that are fully internationalized and of arbitrary length. Additionally, you can pass CFURLs around without incurring any I/O cost until the moment disk access occurs. Even if there is a good reason to use an FSRef for some specific file, consider using CFURL for general file access and only using an FSRef where there's a good user experience justification for doing so." -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-21 19:46 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnmc00i2.gdt.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #68603 |
Okay, so one time? In band camp? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> was all, like: > On 2015-01-21, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote: >> Okay, so one time? In band camp? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> was all, like: >> >>> rewind a few years, and Apple was populated by A-listers because Apple >>> managemenet hired the best of the best. >> >> Was this before or after the iTunes update that deleted some people's >> external hard drives if they named them very very stupidly? > In fairness, it wasn't that the hard drives were named badly, but simply > that the hard drive names contained *spaces*. As I recall, you had to have a setup like /Volumes/Drive /Volumes/Drive Boot If Drive Boot was your boot drive then the installer would rm -rf /Drive Boot/Applications/iTunes.app which would delete all the files on /Volumes/Drive Otherwise, the rm would fail and the update script would crash out. But it was a long time ago and details are fuzzy. I do remember thinking at the time, "Who the hell would have ever named their drives that way?" -- http://2blog.kreme.com
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-21 19:50 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ciae7hFf7bvU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #68609 |
On 2015-01-21, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote: > Okay, so one time? In band camp? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> was all, like: >> On 2015-01-21, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote: >>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> was all, like: >>> >>>> rewind a few years, and Apple was populated by A-listers because Apple >>>> managemenet hired the best of the best. >>> >>> Was this before or after the iTunes update that deleted some people's >>> external hard drives if they named them very very stupidly? > >> In fairness, it wasn't that the hard drives were named badly, but simply >> that the hard drive names contained *spaces*. > > As I recall, you had to have a setup like > > /Volumes/Drive > /Volumes/Drive Boot > > If Drive Boot was your boot drive then the installer would > > rm -rf /Drive Boot/Applications/iTunes.app > > which would delete all the files on /Volumes/Drive > > Otherwise, the rm would fail and the update script would crash out. Sounds about right. > But it was a long time ago and details are fuzzy. I do remember thinking > at the time, "Who the hell would have ever named their drives that way?" I'm sure it made sense to them at the time. I wouldn't necessarily attribute smarts to it - just simple user preference. There's no reason we shouldn't be able to name drives however we wish. The alternative is the nonsensical names you see on Windows drives. : ) -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-21 20:43 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnmc03ss.gdt.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #68610 |
Okay, so one time? In band camp? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> was all, like: > On 2015-01-21, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote: >> Okay, so one time? In band camp? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> was all, like: >>> On 2015-01-21, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote: >>>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> was all, like: >>>> >>>>> rewind a few years, and Apple was populated by A-listers because Apple >>>>> managemenet hired the best of the best. >>>> >>>> Was this before or after the iTunes update that deleted some people's >>>> external hard drives if they named them very very stupidly? >> >>> In fairness, it wasn't that the hard drives were named badly, but simply >>> that the hard drive names contained *spaces*. >> >> As I recall, you had to have a setup like >> >> /Volumes/Drive >> /Volumes/Drive Boot >> >> If Drive Boot was your boot drive then the installer would >> >> rm -rf /Drive Boot/Applications/iTunes.app >> >> which would delete all the files on /Volumes/Drive >> >> Otherwise, the rm would fail and the update script would crash out. > Sounds about right. >> But it was a long time ago and details are fuzzy. I do remember thinking >> at the time, "Who the hell would have ever named their drives that way?" > I'm sure it made sense to them at the time. I wouldn't necessarily > attribute smarts to it - just simple user preference. There's no reason > we shouldn't be able to name drives however we wish. Oh, the bug was stupid, but still... Even if I had drives named something like that they'd be "Drive 1" "Drive 2" "Drive 3" and there wouldn't be a "Drive". I just can't imagine anyone running into that bug. > The alternative is the nonsensical names you see on Windows drives. :) I name my boot drive the same as the machine (Oswin, Amelia, Jaka, Cerebus, Appleseed, Thanatos, xmac) and then I name extra drives various combinations of weird names (Porphyrion, Typhoeus, Faraday, Drobo5N, Orpheus, Hyperion, etc). I try to have drives mounted only if they start with a different letter than any other drive (so Thanatos doesn't mount Typhoeus). My FreeBSD machines are named Akane, Ranma, Julius, and McMuffin, but those names are never seen, really, since they live their lives as mail, www, ns1, and ns2. (Julius and McMuffin are from Cerebus High Society, and Ranam and Akane are from Ranma 1/2). I've never been tempted to name a drive with a space in the name and I always changed the "Macintosh HD" name to some single name. I might have had a boot drive around the 7.1 or 7.5 days named Olive Oyl, but I think it was just Olive. The other machines were Blutto and Popeye but Blutto became Blotto at some point. (Oswin is my wife's laptop and her iPad is Clara :) -- http://2blog.kreme.com
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-21 20:55 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ciai20Ffga3U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #68611 |
On 2015-01-21, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote: > > Oh, the bug was stupid, but still... Even if I had drives named > something like that they'd be "Drive 1" "Drive 2" "Drive 3" and there > wouldn't be a "Drive". I just can't imagine anyone running into that > bug. I can easily imagine names like "Macintosh HD", "Macintosh HD 2", and so on. The point is we should be free to name drives as we wish without fear of software erroneously deleting contents. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-21 14:00 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <210120151400310792%michelle@michelle.org> |
| In reply to | #68612 |
In article <ciai20Ffga3U1@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote: > On 2015-01-21, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote: > > > > Oh, the bug was stupid, but still... Even if I had drives named > > something like that they'd be "Drive 1" "Drive 2" "Drive 3" and there > > wouldn't be a "Drive". I just can't imagine anyone running into that > > bug. > > I can easily imagine names like "Macintosh HD", "Macintosh HD 2", and so > on. The point is we should be free to name drives as we wish without > fear of software erroneously deleting contents. One of the admin people at Apple in 1989, who was running an in-house development build of System 6.0.4, had his computer lock up at boot right after installing a new build. Turns out that the OS was using the ¥ (Japanese Yen symbol as a placeholder, and would insert the startup disk's name there. This guy's startup disk had that symbol as part of its name, so the system went into an infinite loop. After an engineer explained what happened to me, he asked how I would fix the problem. I told him that I'd use a colon as the place holder because that was the only character you couldn't use in a disk, folder, or file name. He congratulated me on having the correct answer.
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-21 21:09 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ciaislFfga3U2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #68614 |
On 2015-01-21, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote: > In article <ciai20Ffga3U1@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger ><jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote: > >> On 2015-01-21, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote: >> > >> > Oh, the bug was stupid, but still... Even if I had drives named >> > something like that they'd be "Drive 1" "Drive 2" "Drive 3" and there >> > wouldn't be a "Drive". I just can't imagine anyone running into that >> > bug. >> >> I can easily imagine names like "Macintosh HD", "Macintosh HD 2", and so >> on. The point is we should be free to name drives as we wish without >> fear of software erroneously deleting contents. > > One of the admin people at Apple in 1989, who was running an in-house > development build of System 6.0.4, had his computer lock up at boot > right after installing a new build. > > Turns out that the OS was using the ¥ (Japanese Yen symbol as a > placeholder, and would insert the startup disk's name there. This > guy's startup disk had that symbol as part of its name, so the system > went into an infinite loop. After an engineer explained what happened > to me, he asked how I would fix the problem. I told him that I'd use a > colon as the place holder because that was the only character you > couldn't use in a disk, folder, or file name. He congratulated me on > having the correct answer. Nice. Sometimes the simplest tings escape smart people. Human nature. Another set of eyes is invaluable sometimes. : ) -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-21 16:14 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <210120151614004912%nospam@nospam.invalid> |
| In reply to | #68614 |
In article <210120151400310792%michelle@michelle.org>, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote: > One of the admin people at Apple in 1989, who was running an in-house > development build of System 6.0.4, had his computer lock up at boot > right after installing a new build. > > Turns out that the OS was using the ¥ (Japanese Yen symbol as a > placeholder, and would insert the startup disk's name there. This > guy's startup disk had that symbol as part of its name, so the system > went into an infinite loop. After an engineer explained what happened > to me, he asked how I would fix the problem. I told him that I'd use a > colon as the place holder because that was the only character you > couldn't use in a disk, folder, or file name. He congratulated me on > having the correct answer. remember the .sony bug? mac drivers began with a period and if you named a hard drive .sony, access to the hard drive actually went to the (sony) floppy disk driver and vice versa. needless to say, that did not end well. there was a later version of that bug in the system 7 days where hard drives could be trashed if a file began with a period.
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-21 21:19 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ciajehFfga3U4@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #68621 |
On 2015-01-21, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote: > In article <210120151400310792%michelle@michelle.org>, Michelle Steiner ><michelle@michelle.org> wrote: > >> One of the admin people at Apple in 1989, who was running an in-house >> development build of System 6.0.4, had his computer lock up at boot >> right after installing a new build. >> >> Turns out that the OS was using the ¥ (Japanese Yen symbol as a >> placeholder, and would insert the startup disk's name there. This >> guy's startup disk had that symbol as part of its name, so the system >> went into an infinite loop. After an engineer explained what happened >> to me, he asked how I would fix the problem. I told him that I'd use a >> colon as the place holder because that was the only character you >> couldn't use in a disk, folder, or file name. He congratulated me on >> having the correct answer. > > remember the .sony bug? > > mac drivers began with a period and if you named a hard drive .sony, > access to the hard drive actually went to the (sony) floppy disk driver > and vice versa. needless to say, that did not end well. > > there was a later version of that bug in the system 7 days where hard > drives could be trashed if a file began with a period. Yep! I remember that one too. Silly programmers. : ) -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-21 23:53 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnmc0f15.p6e.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #68612 |
Okay, so one time? In band camp? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> was all, like: > On 2015-01-21, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote: >> >> Oh, the bug was stupid, but still... Even if I had drives named >> something like that they'd be "Drive 1" "Drive 2" "Drive 3" and there >> wouldn't be a "Drive". I just can't imagine anyone running into that >> bug. > I can easily imagine names like "Macintosh HD", "Macintosh HD 2", and so > on. But those would not have triggered the bug. You'd have to have a drive named "Macintosh" and a boot drive named "Macintosh With a Space" > The point is we should be free to name drives as we wish without > fear of software erroneously deleting contents. I agree and I'm not defending the bug at all. -- http://2blog.kreme.com
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-22 00:06 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ciat77Fi5qfU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #68631 |
On 2015-01-21, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote: > Okay, so one time? In band camp? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> was all, like: >> On 2015-01-21, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote: >>> >>> Oh, the bug was stupid, but still... Even if I had drives named >>> something like that they'd be "Drive 1" "Drive 2" "Drive 3" and there >>> wouldn't be a "Drive". I just can't imagine anyone running into that >>> bug. > >> I can easily imagine names like "Macintosh HD", "Macintosh HD 2", and so >> on. > > But those would not have triggered the bug. You'd have to have a drive > named "Macintosh" and a boot drive named "Macintosh With a Space" Right, bad example. So: Kitten Kitten #2 >> The point is we should be free to name drives as we wish without >> fear of software erroneously deleting contents. > > I agree and I'm not defending the bug at all. Cool. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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