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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #68560 > unrolled thread

Gassee joins the fray

Started bynmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello)
First post2015-01-19 16:50 -0700
Last post2015-01-23 14:16 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 220 — 21 participants

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Contents

  Gassee joins the fray nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2015-01-19 16:50 -0700
    Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-20 00:01 +0000
      Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-19 22:18 -0500
        Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-20 15:43 +0000
          Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-20 11:16 -0500
            Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-20 16:28 +0000
            Re: Gassee joins the fray TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft@me.com> - 2015-01-20 12:39 -0600
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 06:18 +0000
            Re: Gassee joins the fray Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2015-01-20 14:05 -0500
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 06:19 +0000
          Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-20 19:53 -0500
            Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 02:40 +0000
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Lao-Ming Liu <laomingliu@gmail.com> - 2015-01-20 20:18 -0800
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 04:42 +0000
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-20 22:31 -0700
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-21 21:46 -0800
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Lao-Ming Liu <laomingliu@gmail.com> - 2015-01-20 22:01 -0800
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-20 23:12 -0700
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-01-21 09:56 +0000
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2015-01-21 09:22 -0600
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 15:49 +0000
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-21 10:59 -0500
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 16:29 +0000
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 16:52 +0000
                          Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 17:06 +0000
                            Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 13:40 -0500
                              Re: Gassee joins the fray Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-01-21 19:02 +0000
                                Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 14:09 -0500
                                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 19:23 +0000
                              Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 19:19 +0000
                            Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 19:46 +0000
                              Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 19:50 +0000
                                Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 20:43 +0000
                                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 20:55 +0000
                                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-21 14:00 -0700
                                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 21:09 +0000
                                      Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 16:14 -0500
                                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 21:19 +0000
                                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 23:53 +0000
                                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-22 00:06 +0000
                                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-21 13:55 -0700
                                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 23:55 +0000
                                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-21 17:41 -0700
                                  Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 16:13 -0500
                                Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-21 16:10 -0500
                                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 21:12 +0000
                                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 23:57 +0000
                                    Re: Gassee joins the fray dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-01-22 15:16 +1300
                              Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 11:59 -0500
                                Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-23 01:04 +0000
                                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 03:04 +0000
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-01-22 11:59 +1300
                          Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 23:17 +0000
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-22 20:42 -0500
                          Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-22 22:14 -0500
                            Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 03:52 +0000
                            Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-22 22:14 -0800
                              Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 14:21 +0000
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2015-01-21 23:12 -0500
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-24 18:42 -0500
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-24 18:40 -0500
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 02:53 +0000
    Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-21 21:36 -0800
      Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-22 16:55 +0000
        Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-22 12:14 -0500
          Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-22 17:24 +0000
          Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-22 13:25 -0800
            Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-22 22:05 +0000
          Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-22 22:06 -0800
            Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 14:16 +0000
            Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 13:44 -0500
        Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-24 18:47 -0500
          Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 02:57 +0000
            Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-24 21:09 -0700
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-25 09:30 -0500
                Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-25 16:19 +0000
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-25 09:22 -0700
          Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 11:09 +0000
            Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-26 14:53 +0000
      Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 12:14 -0500
        Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-22 22:03 -0800
          Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 00:00 -0800
            Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-23 09:52 -0500
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 15:13 +0000
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-01-23 15:40 +0000
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 11:28 -0500
                Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 13:44 -0500
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 11:44 -0800
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:32 -0800
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:44 -0800
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:48 -0800
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:50 -0800
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 23:15 +0000
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 18:22 -0500
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-01-24 10:56 +0000
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-24 11:05 -0800
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-24 16:22 -0500
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-24 21:51 +0000
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-25 12:20 +1300
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 02:38 +0000
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-24 15:32 -0800
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 23:14 +0000
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 18:22 -0500
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:29 +0000
                Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-24 15:35 -0500
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-24 12:38 -0800
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:33 +0000
            Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:30 -0800
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:42 -0800
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:54 -0800
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 15:00 -0800
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 08:50 -0500
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-01-24 17:07 +0000
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 16:35 -0500
                          Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-25 00:03 +0000
                            Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-25 09:19 -0500
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 23:13 +0000
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 11:01 +0000
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-26 21:34 -0500
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 23:07 +0000
              Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 18:22 -0500
          Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 14:12 +0000
          Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-23 09:49 -0500
            Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 15:08 +0000
              Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-23 10:49 -0500
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 16:18 +0000
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-23 11:30 -0500
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 16:55 +0000
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-23 12:03 -0500
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 17:07 +0000
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 13:44 -0500
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 11:41 -0800
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:39 -0800
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:45 -0800
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-24 16:19 -0500
                          Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-24 21:38 +0000
                          Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-24 18:45 -0800
                            Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 03:04 +0000
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 11:17 -0700
                Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 13:44 -0500
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 18:46 +0000
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-01-24 10:46 +1300
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-01-24 10:54 +0000
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-24 13:55 +0000
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-24 10:42 -0500
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-24 16:14 -0500
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-25 03:54 +0000
              Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-23 17:34 +0000
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 17:49 +0000
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-23 18:05 +0000
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 18:37 +0000
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 11:41 -0700
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 18:43 +0000
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 14:13 -0500
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 12:23 -0700
                          Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 19:28 +0000
                            Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:58 +0000
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:58 +0000
                          Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-26 14:46 +0000
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-23 20:46 +0000
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-24 10:17 +1300
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 14:05 -0500
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 19:08 +0000
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 11:20 -0700
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:40 -0800
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 18:23 -0700
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 18:21 -0800
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 20:50 -0700
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-24 10:15 +1300
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-23 23:19 +0000
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-24 13:16 +1300
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 08:48 -0500
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-01-24 09:20 +0000
            Re: Gassee joins the fray Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-01-23 15:38 +0000
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:36 -0800
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:45 -0800
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 23:17 +0000
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-24 17:14 -0500
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-24 22:37 +0000
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-25 12:24 +1300
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:40 +0000
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-26 13:39 -0500
                Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 18:22 -0500
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 18:22 -0700
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 18:21 -0800
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 22:05 -0500
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 20:46 -0700
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 19:55 -0800
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 21:05 -0700
                          Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 20:57 -0800
                            Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 21:01 -0800
                            Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-24 00:12 -0500
                            Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-24 18:31 +1300
                            Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 23:17 -0700
                            Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 08:52 -0500
                              Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-24 18:40 -0800
                                Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 03:03 +0000
                                Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-25 09:27 -0500
                                  Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-26 01:50 +0000
                                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-25 22:25 -0500
                                Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-25 14:56 -0500
                                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 20:19 +0000
                                  Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-26 21:55 -0500
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 20:07 -0800
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 23:57 -0500
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:45 +0000
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-26 21:52 -0500
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:37 +0000
                Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-26 21:49 -0500
          Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 11:26 -0500
            Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-24 10:20 +1300
            Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:43 -0800
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:48 -0800
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:56 +0000
          Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 13:44 -0500
    Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-22 20:37 -0500
      Re: Gassee joins the fray nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2015-01-22 20:55 -0700
        Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 03:59 +0000
      Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-22 22:09 -0800
        Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 14:16 +0000

Page 2 of 11 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 … 11  Next page →


#68598

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2015-01-21 15:49 +0000
Message-ID<cia03qFb8mdU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#68588
On 2015-01-21, Lao-Ming Liu <laomingliu@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 20, 2015 at 8:42:33 PM UTC-8, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> 
>> My life is filled with joy. If that upsets you so be it. : ) It may
>> surprise you to know that your snide personal insults don't equate to
>> evidence of a downward trend in software quality either. Anyone can
>> claim anything without backing it up with real evidence; but few can do
>> it without coming off looking like a fool. I don't debate that Apple
>> software has bug. It always has and perhaps always will. There have been
>> times when there were many bugs, and times when there were few. This is
>> the natural way with complex software. All I have done from the
>> beginning regarding this silly debate is ask for evidence of a downward
>> trend in software quality, yet not a single one of you has been able to
>> provide a shred. Saying empty things out of ignorance seems to be the
>> rule of the day for many. And calling those who ask for you to prove
>> your assertions "fan boys" doesn't help your case at all. You too have
>> failed in the simple task of backing up your assertion with evidence.
>> More fool you.
>
> Yeah, your life is so filled with joy that you're constantly at odds
> with everybody on this newsgroup.

I am hardly at odds with everybody in this group. So your analysis is
flat-out wrong. And that comes as no surprise since you are plainly
trolling. You still have not offered a single shred of evidence
supporting the assertion that Apple software quality is in decline.
You're failing spectacularly.

> But no one here really cares about your life.

You're the one that brought it up - not me. What does that tell you?

> It's your daily behavior here that matters ... which you
> clearly refuse to see.   

My behavior with regard to this particular topic has been to remain
skeptical of the claim that Apple's software quality is in decline until
someone, anyone, presents evidence showing that assertion to be true. So
far, the best anyone has been able to say is that there are bugs, which
is not evidence of a downward trend. My behavior is to search for the
truth. So far, this assertion does not ring true. Your failure to
present a valid case for this assertion doesn't equate to my failure to
see.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#68600

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2015-01-21 10:59 -0500
Message-ID<54bfccef$0$41759$c3e8da3$5d8fb80f@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#68598
On 15-01-21 10:49, Jolly Roger wrote:

> I am hardly at odds with everybody in this group. So your analysis is
> flat-out wrong.

But the number of people you are insulting grows whenever there are news
that are negative towards Apple and more people come out of the woodwork
to agree with the problem.  And the way you insult people is very
condescending. I think even real Apple employees would know to be more
professional.

You could simply respond with "I dont share your opninion" instead of
"you are a total idiot who knows nothing".

But it appears this newsgroup is populated by your fan club with only a
few of us who have the courage to report both good and bad news about apple.


Automatic connection to a Wi-Fi when you open your laptop is a very
basic feature which used to work fine. It no longer works.  Even Apple
admitted there was a problem and *tried* to fix it with 10.10.1 and failed.

rewind a few years, and Apple was populated by A-listers because Apple
managemenet hired the best of the best. Introduce fast growth and what
happens ? You start to hire less than great programmers, and because of
overly ambitious deadlines set by folks other than engineering
(marketing, legal etc), you get reduced software quality assurance.

It doesn't takle Einstein to see what has happpened. Since you have not
access to the Apple bug report, you cannot state that there is no
evidence that the number of bugs has risen. But I can state that in my
personal experience, Yosemite is more buggy than Snow Leopard because I
experience more problems with it.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#68601

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2015-01-21 16:29 +0000
Message-ID<cia2etFb8mdU5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#68600
On 2015-01-21, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 15-01-21 10:49, Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>> I am hardly at odds with everybody in this group. So your analysis is
>> flat-out wrong.
>
> But the number of people you are insulting grows whenever there are
> news that are negative towards Apple and more people come out of the
> woodwork to agree with the problem.

Stating that you have failed to back up your assertion isn't an insult -
it's a fact. If you feel insulted by the truth, you should change your
behavior.

> And the way you insult people is very condescending. I think even real
> Apple employees would know to be more professional.

I don't have much time for diplomacy, and I don't respect opinions that
are untrue or based on pure ignorance. You'll just have to deal with
that in the best way you can. One sure thing you can do to minimize
having your feelings hurt is stop repeating assertions without backing
them up with factual data.

> You could simply respond with "I dont share your opninion" instead of
> "you are a total idiot who knows nothing".

I never uttered those words. Nice try at putting words in my mouth. Go
back and re-read what I did say, this time focussing on comprehension.

> But it appears this newsgroup is populated by your fan club with only a
> few of us who have the courage to report both good and bad news about apple.

No, it appears that you and others have made assertions you are either
unwilling, or more likely, unable to prove, and I have insisted on
seeing proof of your assertion before I believe it. I definitely do not
have a "fan club" here, as most anyone here will tell you. I, like any
other human, have my own personality faults and rough edges. My friends
will be the first to tell you I am no superstar - nor do I want to be.

> Automatic connection to a Wi-Fi when you open your laptop is a very
> basic feature which used to work fine. It no longer works.  Even Apple
> admitted there was a problem and *tried* to fix it with 10.10.1 and failed.

There is obviously a bug in 10.10 that effects some subset of the
Mac user base; but it's certainly not "no longer working" for everyone.
It works just fine for many, many people with many different models of
Mac. Get this through your head: The mere existence of a bug does not a
trend make.

> rewind a few years, and Apple was populated by A-listers because Apple
> managemenet hired the best of the best. Introduce fast growth and what
> happens ? You start to hire less than great programmers, and because
> of overly ambitious deadlines set by folks other than engineering
> (marketing, legal etc), you get reduced software quality assurance.

More pure conjecture from a position of pure ignorance. You have no idea
how talented the people Apple employs are, nor do you know what
deadlines are set by whom within Apple, and you have yet to produce a
single shred of evidence supporting your claim that software quality is
in fact declining. All you have been able to do is show that there are
bugs, just as there have been since the beginning of software
development, and probably always will.

> It doesn't takle Einstein to see what has happpened.

Correct. It simply takes actual knowledge of the facts - something you
are sorely lacking since you have zero visibility into Apple's inner
workings. What you are left with is conjecture based on ignorance. And
that's simply not good enough.

> Since you have not access to the Apple bug report, you cannot state
> that there is no evidence that the number of bugs has risen.

I'm not the one making the claim here - you are. Therefore the burden of
proof is yours. If you cannot provide a shred of evidence showing that
your claim is true that software quality has declined, you are failing
to meet this burden. It's that simple.

> But I can state that in my personal experience, Yosemite is more buggy
> than Snow Leopard because I experience more problems with it.

That's not the same thing as an overall decline in software quality.
Various OS releases have been buggier than others throughout Apple's
history. That the latest one is more buggy than others is nothing new.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#68602

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2015-01-21 16:52 +0000
Message-ID<slrnmbvmaf.cj7.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#68600
Okay, so one time? In band camp? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> was all, like:
> On 15-01-21 10:49, Jolly Roger wrote:

>> I am hardly at odds with everybody in this group. So your analysis is
>> flat-out wrong.

> But the number of people you are insulting grows whenever there are news
> that are negative towards Apple and more people come out of the woodwork
> to agree with the problem.

There's a few idiots and a few trolls. The numbers aren't changing to
any significant degree.

> You could simply respond with "I dont share your opninion" instead of
> "you are a total idiot who knows nothing".

If the shoes fits...

> But it appears this newsgroup is populated by your fan club with only a
> few of us who have the courage to report both good and bad news about apple.

So, is it "few" or "many" Make up your mind, dumbass.

> Automatic connection to a Wi-Fi when you open your laptop is a very
> basic feature which used to work fine.

And still does.

> It no longer works.

Not true.

> Even Apple admitted there was a problem and *tried* to fix it with
> 10.10.1 and failed.

Some tiny percentage of people having a problem is not a general
problem. You do not seem to understand this.

> rewind a few years, and Apple was populated by A-listers because Apple
> managemenet hired the best of the best.

Was this before or after the iTunes update that deleted some people's
external hard drives if they named them very very stupidly?

Before or after the first iteration of File Vault?

<insert another 100 examples here, available from Google>

> you get reduced software quality assurance.

No, you get an idiot who continues to make complete unsubstantiated
claims on a topic he knows less than nothing about.

-- 
http://2blog.kreme.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#68603

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2015-01-21 17:06 +0000
Message-ID<cia4kpFb8mdU6@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#68602
On 2015-01-21, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> Okay, so one time? In band camp? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> was all, like:
>
>> rewind a few years, and Apple was populated by A-listers because Apple
>> managemenet hired the best of the best.
>
> Was this before or after the iTunes update that deleted some people's
> external hard drives if they named them very very stupidly?

In fairness, it wasn't that the hard drives were named badly, but simply
that the hard drive names contained *spaces*. iTunes issued some
commands in a shell without properly quoting the relevant paths. The
spaces in the name along with the omission of quoting caused the shell
to incorrectly interpret the path as two separate paths. Quoting paths
in shell commands is a long-known best practice that should have been
caught; but mistakes do happen - even to the best of us.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#68604

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2015-01-21 13:40 -0500
Message-ID<210120151340040733%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#68603
In article <cia4kpFb8mdU6@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
<jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> >> rewind a few years, and Apple was populated by A-listers because Apple
> >> managemenet hired the best of the best.
> >
> > Was this before or after the iTunes update that deleted some people's
> > external hard drives if they named them very very stupidly?
> 
> In fairness, it wasn't that the hard drives were named badly, but simply
> that the hard drive names contained *spaces*. iTunes issued some
> commands in a shell without properly quoting the relevant paths. The
> spaces in the name along with the omission of quoting caused the shell
> to incorrectly interpret the path as two separate paths. Quoting paths
> in shell commands is a long-known best practice that should have been
> caught; but mistakes do happen - even to the best of us.

mistakes happen, but the itunes 2.0 debacle was not a mistake. it was
because apple didn't test it properly. spaces in file names go back to
the very first mac, at a minimum. it wasn't a new concept. ignoring
that possibility in their testing was negligence.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#68605

FromTim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net>
Date2015-01-21 19:02 +0000
Message-ID<210120151902429858%timstreater@greenbee.net>
In reply to#68604
In article <210120151340040733%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
<nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>In article <cia4kpFb8mdU6@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
><jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> >> rewind a few years, and Apple was populated by A-listers because Apple
>> >> managemenet hired the best of the best.
>> >
>> > Was this before or after the iTunes update that deleted some people's
>> > external hard drives if they named them very very stupidly?
>> 
>> In fairness, it wasn't that the hard drives were named badly, but simply
>> that the hard drive names contained *spaces*. iTunes issued some
>> commands in a shell without properly quoting the relevant paths. The
>> spaces in the name along with the omission of quoting caused the shell
>> to incorrectly interpret the path as two separate paths. Quoting paths
>> in shell commands is a long-known best practice that should have been
>> caught; but mistakes do happen - even to the best of us.
>
>mistakes happen, but the itunes 2.0 debacle was not a mistake. it was
>because apple didn't test it properly. spaces in file names go back to
>the very first mac, at a minimum. it wasn't a new concept.

Sure. And if you supply the filename to the OS via an API, there won't
be any problems. It's going via the shell that screws you up if you
don't remember that the shell is rather more primitive. I've been using
the Mac for 30 years and still made that mistake.

-- 
"Please stop telling us what you feel. Please stop telling us what your 
intuition is. Your intuitive feelings are of no interest whatsoever, 
and nor are mine. I don't give a bugger what you feel, or what I feel. 
I want to know what the evidence shows."             -- Richard Dawkins

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#68606

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2015-01-21 14:09 -0500
Message-ID<210120151409085368%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#68605
In article <210120151902429858%timstreater@greenbee.net>, Tim Streater
<timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

> >> >> rewind a few years, and Apple was populated by A-listers because Apple
> >> >> managemenet hired the best of the best.
> >> >
> >> > Was this before or after the iTunes update that deleted some people's
> >> > external hard drives if they named them very very stupidly?
> >> 
> >> In fairness, it wasn't that the hard drives were named badly, but simply
> >> that the hard drive names contained *spaces*. iTunes issued some
> >> commands in a shell without properly quoting the relevant paths. The
> >> spaces in the name along with the omission of quoting caused the shell
> >> to incorrectly interpret the path as two separate paths. Quoting paths
> >> in shell commands is a long-known best practice that should have been
> >> caught; but mistakes do happen - even to the best of us.
> >
> >mistakes happen, but the itunes 2.0 debacle was not a mistake. it was
> >because apple didn't test it properly. spaces in file names go back to
> >the very first mac, at a minimum. it wasn't a new concept.
> 
> Sure. And if you supply the filename to the OS via an API, there won't
> be any problems. It's going via the shell that screws you up if you
> don't remember that the shell is rather more primitive. I've been using
> the Mac for 30 years and still made that mistake.

you're not writing an app for public distribution, nor does what you do
go through q/a testing, which is there to catch mistakes by those who
build the product.

at the end of the day, apple didn't test the possibility where a hard
drive name could have a space in the middle, which is why it slipped
through. it's negligence, not a mistake.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#68608

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2015-01-21 19:23 +0000
Message-ID<ciackuFb8mdU9@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#68606
On 2015-01-21, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <210120151902429858%timstreater@greenbee.net>, Tim Streater
><timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>
>> >> >> rewind a few years, and Apple was populated by A-listers because Apple
>> >> >> managemenet hired the best of the best.
>> >> >
>> >> > Was this before or after the iTunes update that deleted some people's
>> >> > external hard drives if they named them very very stupidly?
>> >> 
>> >> In fairness, it wasn't that the hard drives were named badly, but simply
>> >> that the hard drive names contained *spaces*. iTunes issued some
>> >> commands in a shell without properly quoting the relevant paths. The
>> >> spaces in the name along with the omission of quoting caused the shell
>> >> to incorrectly interpret the path as two separate paths. Quoting paths
>> >> in shell commands is a long-known best practice that should have been
>> >> caught; but mistakes do happen - even to the best of us.
>> >
>> >mistakes happen, but the itunes 2.0 debacle was not a mistake. it was
>> >because apple didn't test it properly. spaces in file names go back to
>> >the very first mac, at a minimum. it wasn't a new concept.
>> 
>> Sure. And if you supply the filename to the OS via an API, there won't
>> be any problems. It's going via the shell that screws you up if you
>> don't remember that the shell is rather more primitive. I've been using
>> the Mac for 30 years and still made that mistake.
>
> you're not writing an app for public distribution, nor does what you do
> go through q/a testing, which is there to catch mistakes by those who
> build the product.
>
> at the end of the day, apple didn't test the possibility where a hard
> drive name could have a space in the middle, which is why it slipped
> through. it's negligence, not a mistake.

It's both a mistake and negligence, probably brought on by a push from
upper management to shun tried-and-true Apple technologies in favor of
more rigid and less functional NeXT technologies.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#68607

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2015-01-21 19:19 +0000
Message-ID<ciaceqFb8mdU8@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#68604
On 2015-01-21, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <cia4kpFb8mdU6@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
><jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> >> rewind a few years, and Apple was populated by A-listers because Apple
>> >> managemenet hired the best of the best.
>> >
>> > Was this before or after the iTunes update that deleted some people's
>> > external hard drives if they named them very very stupidly?
>> 
>> In fairness, it wasn't that the hard drives were named badly, but simply
>> that the hard drive names contained *spaces*. iTunes issued some
>> commands in a shell without properly quoting the relevant paths. The
>> spaces in the name along with the omission of quoting caused the shell
>> to incorrectly interpret the path as two separate paths. Quoting paths
>> in shell commands is a long-known best practice that should have been
>> caught; but mistakes do happen - even to the best of us.
>
> mistakes happen, but the itunes 2.0 debacle was not a mistake. it was
> because apple didn't test it properly. spaces in file names go back to
> the very first mac, at a minimum. it wasn't a new concept. ignoring
> that possibility in their testing was negligence.

Definitely. 

Also of note is that this happened with the iTunes 2.0 installer, which
was released around November of 2001, the same month that Apple published
the now infamous technical note TN2034, "Mac OS X Programming
Guidelines" (written largely by Avi Tevanian) that promoted dumb NeXT
technologies over older and better Apple technologies, and caused such a
shit storm or protest from Mac developers that Apple pulled the
technical note shortly afterwards. Here's a couple pertinent sections
from that idiotic technical note:

"Use file extensions

If your application creates documents, those documents should be saved
under the filename extensions claimed by the application in its
Info.plist. Your application may use type and creator codes as an
additional means of document typing, but extensions are essential
because they are more durable. As with resource-fork data, type and
creator codes (which are stored in the Finder Info fork) can be stripped
off as a file travels between different file systems. Unless a user
deliberately removes them, file extensions are left intact. More
information here: http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/
macosx/ReleaseNotes/FileExtensionGuidelines.html

Investigate using path-based file-system APIs

Paths provide the native access to files on a volume-format independent
operating system like Mac OS X. All other mechanisms, such as FSRefs and
FSSpecs, are built on top of paths and therefore incur some performance
cost. This cost can be considerable when converting back and forth in
between paths (or CFRURLs) and FSRefs (or FSSpecs). When developing for
Mac OS X, consider using POSIX paths and CFURLs to represent your files,
especially CFURLs. CFURL performs all translations between different
file-system representations, can handle path components that are fully
internationalized and of arbitrary length.  Additionally, you can pass
CFURLs around without incurring any I/O cost until the moment disk
access occurs. Even if there is a good reason to use an FSRef for some
specific file, consider using CFURL for general file access and only
using an FSRef where there's a good user experience justification for
doing so."

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#68609

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2015-01-21 19:46 +0000
Message-ID<slrnmc00i2.gdt.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#68603
Okay, so one time? In band camp? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> was all, like:
> On 2015-01-21, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> was all, like:
>>
>>> rewind a few years, and Apple was populated by A-listers because Apple
>>> managemenet hired the best of the best.
>>
>> Was this before or after the iTunes update that deleted some people's
>> external hard drives if they named them very very stupidly?

> In fairness, it wasn't that the hard drives were named badly, but simply
> that the hard drive names contained *spaces*.

As I recall, you had to have a setup like

/Volumes/Drive
/Volumes/Drive Boot

If Drive Boot was your boot drive then the installer would 

rm -rf /Drive Boot/Applications/iTunes.app

which would delete all the files on /Volumes/Drive

Otherwise, the rm would fail and the update script would crash out.

But it was a long time ago and details are fuzzy. I do remember thinking
at the time, "Who the hell would have ever named their drives that way?"

-- 
http://2blog.kreme.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#68610

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2015-01-21 19:50 +0000
Message-ID<ciae7hFf7bvU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#68609
On 2015-01-21, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> Okay, so one time? In band camp? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> was all, like:
>> On 2015-01-21, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> was all, like:
>>>
>>>> rewind a few years, and Apple was populated by A-listers because Apple
>>>> managemenet hired the best of the best.
>>>
>>> Was this before or after the iTunes update that deleted some people's
>>> external hard drives if they named them very very stupidly?
>
>> In fairness, it wasn't that the hard drives were named badly, but simply
>> that the hard drive names contained *spaces*.
>
> As I recall, you had to have a setup like
>
> /Volumes/Drive
> /Volumes/Drive Boot
>
> If Drive Boot was your boot drive then the installer would 
>
> rm -rf /Drive Boot/Applications/iTunes.app
>
> which would delete all the files on /Volumes/Drive
>
> Otherwise, the rm would fail and the update script would crash out.

Sounds about right.

> But it was a long time ago and details are fuzzy. I do remember thinking
> at the time, "Who the hell would have ever named their drives that way?"

I'm sure it made sense to them at the time. I wouldn't necessarily
attribute smarts to it - just simple user preference. There's no reason
we shouldn't be able to name drives however we wish. The alternative is
the nonsensical names you see on Windows drives. : )

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#68611

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2015-01-21 20:43 +0000
Message-ID<slrnmc03ss.gdt.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#68610
Okay, so one time? In band camp? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> was all, like:
> On 2015-01-21, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> was all, like:
>>> On 2015-01-21, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> was all, like:
>>>>
>>>>> rewind a few years, and Apple was populated by A-listers because Apple
>>>>> managemenet hired the best of the best.
>>>>
>>>> Was this before or after the iTunes update that deleted some people's
>>>> external hard drives if they named them very very stupidly?
>>
>>> In fairness, it wasn't that the hard drives were named badly, but simply
>>> that the hard drive names contained *spaces*.
>>
>> As I recall, you had to have a setup like
>>
>> /Volumes/Drive
>> /Volumes/Drive Boot
>>
>> If Drive Boot was your boot drive then the installer would 
>>
>> rm -rf /Drive Boot/Applications/iTunes.app
>>
>> which would delete all the files on /Volumes/Drive
>>
>> Otherwise, the rm would fail and the update script would crash out.

> Sounds about right.

>> But it was a long time ago and details are fuzzy. I do remember thinking
>> at the time, "Who the hell would have ever named their drives that way?"

> I'm sure it made sense to them at the time. I wouldn't necessarily
> attribute smarts to it - just simple user preference. There's no reason
> we shouldn't be able to name drives however we wish.

Oh, the bug was stupid, but still... Even if I had drives named
something like that they'd be "Drive 1" "Drive 2" "Drive 3" and there
wouldn't be a "Drive". I just can't imagine anyone running into that
bug.

> The alternative is the nonsensical names you see on Windows drives. :)

I name my boot drive the same as the machine (Oswin, Amelia, Jaka,
Cerebus, Appleseed, Thanatos, xmac) and then I name extra drives various
combinations of weird names (Porphyrion, Typhoeus, Faraday, Drobo5N,
Orpheus, Hyperion, etc).

I try to have drives mounted only if they start with a different letter
than any other drive (so Thanatos doesn't mount Typhoeus).

My FreeBSD machines are named Akane, Ranma, Julius, and McMuffin, but
those names are never seen, really, since they live their lives as mail,
www, ns1, and ns2.

(Julius and McMuffin are from Cerebus High Society, and Ranam and Akane
are from Ranma 1/2).

I've never been tempted to name a drive with a space in the name and I
always changed the "Macintosh HD" name to some single name. I might have
had a boot drive around the 7.1 or 7.5 days named Olive Oyl, but I think
it was just Olive. The other machines were Blutto and Popeye but Blutto
became Blotto at some point.

(Oswin is my wife's laptop and her iPad is Clara :)

-- 
http://2blog.kreme.com

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#68612

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2015-01-21 20:55 +0000
Message-ID<ciai20Ffga3U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#68611
On 2015-01-21, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>
> Oh, the bug was stupid, but still... Even if I had drives named
> something like that they'd be "Drive 1" "Drive 2" "Drive 3" and there
> wouldn't be a "Drive". I just can't imagine anyone running into that
> bug.

I can easily imagine names like "Macintosh HD", "Macintosh HD 2", and so
on. The point is we should be free to name drives as we wish without
fear of software erroneously deleting contents.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#68614

FromMichelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date2015-01-21 14:00 -0700
Message-ID<210120151400310792%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to#68612
In article <ciai20Ffga3U1@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
<jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2015-01-21, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> >
> > Oh, the bug was stupid, but still... Even if I had drives named
> > something like that they'd be "Drive 1" "Drive 2" "Drive 3" and there
> > wouldn't be a "Drive". I just can't imagine anyone running into that
> > bug.
> 
> I can easily imagine names like "Macintosh HD", "Macintosh HD 2", and so
> on. The point is we should be free to name drives as we wish without
> fear of software erroneously deleting contents.

One of the admin people at Apple in 1989, who was running an in-house
development build of System 6.0.4, had his computer lock up at boot
right after installing a new build.

Turns out that the OS was using the ¥ (Japanese Yen symbol as a
placeholder, and would insert the startup disk's name there.  This
guy's startup disk had that symbol as part of its name, so the system
went into an infinite loop.  After an engineer explained what happened
to me, he asked how I would fix the problem.  I told him that I'd use a
colon as the place holder because that was the only character you
couldn't use in a disk, folder, or file name.  He congratulated me on
having the correct answer.

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#68616

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2015-01-21 21:09 +0000
Message-ID<ciaislFfga3U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#68614
On 2015-01-21, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> In article <ciai20Ffga3U1@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
><jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2015-01-21, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> >
>> > Oh, the bug was stupid, but still... Even if I had drives named
>> > something like that they'd be "Drive 1" "Drive 2" "Drive 3" and there
>> > wouldn't be a "Drive". I just can't imagine anyone running into that
>> > bug.
>> 
>> I can easily imagine names like "Macintosh HD", "Macintosh HD 2", and so
>> on. The point is we should be free to name drives as we wish without
>> fear of software erroneously deleting contents.
>
> One of the admin people at Apple in 1989, who was running an in-house
> development build of System 6.0.4, had his computer lock up at boot
> right after installing a new build.
>
> Turns out that the OS was using the ¥ (Japanese Yen symbol as a
> placeholder, and would insert the startup disk's name there.  This
> guy's startup disk had that symbol as part of its name, so the system
> went into an infinite loop.  After an engineer explained what happened
> to me, he asked how I would fix the problem.  I told him that I'd use a
> colon as the place holder because that was the only character you
> couldn't use in a disk, folder, or file name.  He congratulated me on
> having the correct answer.

Nice. Sometimes the simplest tings escape smart people. Human nature.
Another set of eyes is invaluable sometimes. : )

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#68621

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2015-01-21 16:14 -0500
Message-ID<210120151614004912%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#68614
In article <210120151400310792%michelle@michelle.org>, Michelle Steiner
<michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> One of the admin people at Apple in 1989, who was running an in-house
> development build of System 6.0.4, had his computer lock up at boot
> right after installing a new build.
> 
> Turns out that the OS was using the ¥ (Japanese Yen symbol as a
> placeholder, and would insert the startup disk's name there.  This
> guy's startup disk had that symbol as part of its name, so the system
> went into an infinite loop.  After an engineer explained what happened
> to me, he asked how I would fix the problem.  I told him that I'd use a
> colon as the place holder because that was the only character you
> couldn't use in a disk, folder, or file name.  He congratulated me on
> having the correct answer.

remember the .sony bug?

mac drivers began with a period and if you named a hard drive .sony,
access to the hard drive actually went to the (sony) floppy disk driver
and vice versa. needless to say, that did not end well.

there was a later version of that bug in the system 7 days where hard
drives could be trashed if a file began with a period.

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#68623

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2015-01-21 21:19 +0000
Message-ID<ciajehFfga3U4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#68621
On 2015-01-21, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <210120151400310792%michelle@michelle.org>, Michelle Steiner
><michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>
>> One of the admin people at Apple in 1989, who was running an in-house
>> development build of System 6.0.4, had his computer lock up at boot
>> right after installing a new build.
>> 
>> Turns out that the OS was using the ¥ (Japanese Yen symbol as a
>> placeholder, and would insert the startup disk's name there.  This
>> guy's startup disk had that symbol as part of its name, so the system
>> went into an infinite loop.  After an engineer explained what happened
>> to me, he asked how I would fix the problem.  I told him that I'd use a
>> colon as the place holder because that was the only character you
>> couldn't use in a disk, folder, or file name.  He congratulated me on
>> having the correct answer.
>
> remember the .sony bug?
>
> mac drivers began with a period and if you named a hard drive .sony,
> access to the hard drive actually went to the (sony) floppy disk driver
> and vice versa. needless to say, that did not end well.
>
> there was a later version of that bug in the system 7 days where hard
> drives could be trashed if a file began with a period.

Yep! I remember that one too. Silly programmers. : )

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#68631

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2015-01-21 23:53 +0000
Message-ID<slrnmc0f15.p6e.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#68612
Okay, so one time? In band camp? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> was all, like:
> On 2015-01-21, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>
>> Oh, the bug was stupid, but still... Even if I had drives named
>> something like that they'd be "Drive 1" "Drive 2" "Drive 3" and there
>> wouldn't be a "Drive". I just can't imagine anyone running into that
>> bug.

> I can easily imagine names like "Macintosh HD", "Macintosh HD 2", and so
> on.

But those would not have triggered the bug. You'd have to have a drive
named "Macintosh" and a boot drive named "Macintosh With a Space"

> The point is we should be free to name drives as we wish without
> fear of software erroneously deleting contents.

I agree and I'm not defending the bug at all.

-- 
http://2blog.kreme.com

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#68634

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2015-01-22 00:06 +0000
Message-ID<ciat77Fi5qfU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#68631
On 2015-01-21, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> Okay, so one time? In band camp? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> was all, like:
>> On 2015-01-21, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>>
>>> Oh, the bug was stupid, but still... Even if I had drives named
>>> something like that they'd be "Drive 1" "Drive 2" "Drive 3" and there
>>> wouldn't be a "Drive". I just can't imagine anyone running into that
>>> bug.
>
>> I can easily imagine names like "Macintosh HD", "Macintosh HD 2", and so
>> on.
>
> But those would not have triggered the bug. You'd have to have a drive
> named "Macintosh" and a boot drive named "Macintosh With a Space"

Right, bad example. So:

Kitten
Kitten #2

>> The point is we should be free to name drives as we wish without
>> fear of software erroneously deleting contents.
>
> I agree and I'm not defending the bug at all.

Cool.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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