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Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac

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  Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Tom Evans <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> - 2015-01-13 07:56 -0800
    Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-13 11:07 -0500
      Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2015-01-13 13:13 -0500
        Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Tom Evans <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> - 2015-01-13 10:50 -0800
          Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-13 13:52 -0500
            Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac android <here@there.was> - 2015-01-13 19:59 +0100
              Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac android <here@there.was> - 2015-01-13 20:02 +0100
                Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-14 08:50 +1300
                  Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac android <here@there.was> - 2015-01-13 21:07 +0100
                    Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-14 09:39 +1300
                      Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac android <here@there.was> - 2015-01-13 22:37 +0100
                        Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-14 13:28 +1300
                          Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac android <here@there.was> - 2015-01-14 06:05 +0100
                            Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-14 18:11 +1300
                              Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac android <here@there.was> - 2015-01-14 07:17 +0100
                                Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-14 19:19 +1300
                                Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-14 12:51 -0500
                                  Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac android <here@there.was> - 2015-01-15 15:51 +0100
                                    Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-15 10:13 -0500
                                      Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac android <here@there.was> - 2015-01-15 17:45 +0100
                                        Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-15 17:19 +0000
                                          Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac android <here@there.was> - 2015-01-15 18:47 +0100
                                            Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-15 17:52 +0000
                                            Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-17 02:31 +0000
                                        Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-15 12:21 -0500
                                          Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac android <here@there.was> - 2015-01-15 18:47 +0100
                                            Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-15 13:00 -0500
                                              Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac android <here@there.was> - 2015-01-15 19:16 +0100
                                                Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-01-15 10:47 -0800
                                                  Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac android <here@there.was> - 2015-01-15 20:03 +0100
                                                  Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-15 14:04 -0500
                                                    Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-01-15 15:05 -0800
                                                Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-15 14:04 -0500
                                                  Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac android <here@there.was> - 2015-01-15 20:13 +0100
                                                    Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-15 19:23 +0000
                                                      Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac android <here@there.was> - 2015-01-15 20:30 +0100
                                                    Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-15 14:57 -0500
                                                      Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac android <here@there.was> - 2015-01-15 21:13 +0100
                                            Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-17 02:31 +0000
                                        Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-17 02:30 +0000
              Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-13 14:03 -0500
                Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-13 19:12 +0000
              Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-13 19:11 +0000
                Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac android <here@there.was> - 2015-01-13 20:14 +0100
                  Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-13 19:20 +0000
                    Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac android <here@there.was> - 2015-01-13 20:25 +0100
                      Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-13 19:32 +0000
                        Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac android <here@there.was> - 2015-01-13 20:55 +0100
            Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-13 19:11 +0000
              Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-13 22:16 +0000
                Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-13 22:54 +0000
            Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-01-13 20:46 +0000
          Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-13 19:08 +0000
    Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-13 16:46 +0000
      Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Tom Evans <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> - 2015-01-13 10:47 -0800
        Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-13 19:10 +0000
    Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2015-01-14 06:02 +1100
      Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac android <here@there.was> - 2015-01-13 20:12 +0100
    Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-14 09:04 +1300
      Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-13 20:13 +0000
      Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-13 15:42 -0500
      Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2015-01-13 16:01 -0500
        Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-14 13:27 +1300
          Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-14 01:10 +0000
          Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2015-01-14 09:43 -0500
            Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-15 09:36 +1300
            Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-17 02:28 +0000
              Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-16 21:49 -0500
                Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2015-01-17 19:04 +1100
              Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-17 15:06 +0000
                Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-18 02:10 +0000
                  Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-18 16:17 +0000
      Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Tom Evans <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> - 2015-01-13 22:25 -0800
        Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-14 14:56 +0000
        Re: Netrenderer.com to emulate Internet Explorer on a Mac Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-15 09:31 +1300

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#68381

In article <140120150904095929%YourName@YourISP.com>, Your Name
<YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> 
> Why do you want Internet Explorer? 

he needs it for testing.

> To quote Luke Skywalker: "What a piece of junk", which is why they
> stopped making a Mac version.

mac internet explorer was *completely* different than windows internet
explorer and actually pretty good in its day.

it was discontinued when apple introduced safari.

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#68383

In article <140120150904095929%YourName@YourISP.com>,
 Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> In article <2015011307565647215-tomevans9890@yahoo.ca>, Tom Evans
> <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > 
> > Is Netrenderer (http://www.Netrenderer.com) a good way to emulate 
> > Internet Explorer on a Mac?  I just discovered it while searching 
> > online, but I'm skeptical and suspicious.
> > 
> > Also by searching online, I found that from within Chrome, using an 
> > extension, I'm supposed to be able to emulate I.E. on my Mac.  But the 
> > Test I.E. extension using Browserstack.com costs 40$ per month, and the 
> > I.E. Tab.net extension I downloaded and installed is Windoze only.  
> > (The idiots that  wrote the Web site didn't bother to write on the site 
> > that the extension was for Windoze only).
> 
> Why do you want Internet Explorer? 
> 
> To quote Luke Skywalker: "What a piece of junk", which is why they
> stopped making a Mac version.

If you develop web sites, you need to make sure it works with the 
browsers your users use. Your personal preferences are not very relevant.

And like it or not, IE still has a sizable user community.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68390

In article <barmar-79AC90.16015013012015@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu>,
Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> In article <140120150904095929%YourName@YourISP.com>,
>  Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> > In article <2015011307565647215-tomevans9890@yahoo.ca>, Tom Evans
> > <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > > 
> > > Is Netrenderer (http://www.Netrenderer.com) a good way to emulate 
> > > Internet Explorer on a Mac?  I just discovered it while searching 
> > > online, but I'm skeptical and suspicious.
> > > 
> > > Also by searching online, I found that from within Chrome, using an 
> > > extension, I'm supposed to be able to emulate I.E. on my Mac.  But the 
> > > Test I.E. extension using Browserstack.com costs 40$ per month, and the 
> > > I.E. Tab.net extension I downloaded and installed is Windoze only.  
> > > (The idiots that  wrote the Web site didn't bother to write on the site 
> > > that the extension was for Windoze only).
> > 
> > Why do you want Internet Explorer? 
> > 
> > To quote Luke Skywalker: "What a piece of junk", which is why they
> > stopped making a Mac version.
> 
> If you develop web sites, you need to make sure it works with the 
> browsers your users use. Your personal preferences are not very relevant.

The original message doesn't say why they want Internet Explorer. There
may be a legitimate reason such as website testing, or there may be a
reason which can be gotten around using another, more sensible browser
... that's why I asked.



> And like it or not, IE still has a sizable user community.

If you build the website properly, then it will work in every sensible
web browser, and for the most part even in Internet Explorer as well.
The issues start when you try to do fancy, usually unnecessary, things
that only work in Internet Explorer (which seems especially prevalent
in Government websites!).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68392

On 2015-01-14, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>
> If you build the website properly, then it will work in every sensible
> web browser, and for the most part even in Internet Explorer as well.
> The issues start when you try to do fancy, usually unnecessary, things
> that only work in Internet Explorer (which seems especially prevalent
> in Government websites!).

If only that were the case. Any web developer worth his salt knows that
IE does things in such wrong ways that often you have to write
special-case code just to make web pages that work in most other web
browsers work properly with IE. Here's just one small example (and there
are plenty more where this came from):

Anyone familiar with web development will recognize the <button> element
(here's a sample shortened a bit for brevity):

<button type="submit" name="operation" value="print">
	<span class="ui-icon-print"></span>
	<span class="ui-button-text">Print</span>
</button>

Notice that the button element in the example above has a "name"
attribute set to "operation" and a "value" attribute set to "print".
When this button is clicked inside of a form container element, most
sane web browsers will send a parameter named "operation" with the value
"print" to the form processing CGI, which allows the CGI to process the
button correctly based on those attrivutes.

It turns out, Microsoft, in their ongoing all-out war on web developer
productivity, decided that rather than sending the "value" attribute to
the CGI, they would instead send the entire inner HTML content of the
button element. And to top it off, Internet Explorer ignores the value
attribute altogether! 

So from the example above, this is what most sane browsers send to the
CGI:

operation: print

And this is what Internet Explorer decides to send to the CGI instead:

operation: <span class="ui-icon-print"></span><span
class="ui-button-text">Print</span>

Note the lack of the value attribute and the useless inner HTML. Why?
Who knows! It makes no sense to any sane person, and is completely
useless to web developers. But hey, isn't it nice of Microsoft to try to
keep us on our toes?  : )

Not only has this problem been with us since Internet Explorer version 6
(yes, SIX) - the problem is still around in Internet Explorer version 8!
I haven't bothered since he last time I looked to see if newer versions
have fixed this, but I'm not holding my breath.

Anyhow, there are tons of articles from frustrated web developers about
this particular issue, some with rather interesting work-around
solutions:

<http://allinthehead.com/retro/330/coping-with-internet-explorers-mishandling-of-buttons>

In the past I've worked around the problem by adding the value to the
"name" attribute of the button element, making it a key/value pair,
which has minimal impact on my HTML:

<button type="submit" name="operation=print" value="print">
	<span class="ui-icon-print"></span>
	<span class="ui-button-text">Print</span>
</button>

Then I looks for the presence of "=" in the name to detect the key/value
pair in the CGI as a special case just for IE.

I recall spending about 30 minutes debugging this the first time I
encountered it before I figured out what the heck was going on, and then
another 20 minutes or so figuring out the best way to tackle it. There
went an hour I'll never get back. Thanks Microsoft!

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#68409

In article <140120151327017800%YourName@YourISP.com>,
 Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> In article <barmar-79AC90.16015013012015@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu>,
> Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> > In article <140120150904095929%YourName@YourISP.com>,
> >  Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> > > In article <2015011307565647215-tomevans9890@yahoo.ca>, Tom Evans
> > > <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > Is Netrenderer (http://www.Netrenderer.com) a good way to emulate 
> > > > Internet Explorer on a Mac?  I just discovered it while searching 
> > > > online, but I'm skeptical and suspicious.
> > > > 
> > > > Also by searching online, I found that from within Chrome, using an 
> > > > extension, I'm supposed to be able to emulate I.E. on my Mac.  But the 
> > > > Test I.E. extension using Browserstack.com costs 40$ per month, and the 
> > > > I.E. Tab.net extension I downloaded and installed is Windoze only.  
> > > > (The idiots that  wrote the Web site didn't bother to write on the site 
> > > > that the extension was for Windoze only).
> > > 
> > > Why do you want Internet Explorer? 
> > > 
> > > To quote Luke Skywalker: "What a piece of junk", which is why they
> > > stopped making a Mac version.
> > 
> > If you develop web sites, you need to make sure it works with the 
> > browsers your users use. Your personal preferences are not very relevant.
> 
> The original message doesn't say why they want Internet Explorer. There
> may be a legitimate reason such as website testing, or there may be a
> reason which can be gotten around using another, more sensible browser
> ... that's why I asked.
> 
> 
> 
> > And like it or not, IE still has a sizable user community.
> 
> If you build the website properly, then it will work in every sensible
> web browser, and for the most part even in Internet Explorer as well.
> The issues start when you try to do fancy, usually unnecessary, things
> that only work in Internet Explorer (which seems especially prevalent
> in Government websites!).

If you do things that only work in IE, you won't have a problem porting 
to IE! The problem is that IE 8 and older don't support many standard 
HTML/Javascript/CSS features. So adhering to standards doesn't mean it 
your site will work properly in IE.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68419

In article <barmar-749D26.09431514012015@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu>,
Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

> In article <140120151327017800%YourName@YourISP.com>,
>  Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> 
> > In article <barmar-79AC90.16015013012015@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu>,
> > Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> > > In article <140120150904095929%YourName@YourISP.com>,
> > >  Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> > > > In article <2015011307565647215-tomevans9890@yahoo.ca>, Tom Evans
> > > > <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > Is Netrenderer (http://www.Netrenderer.com) a good way to emulate 
> > > > > Internet Explorer on a Mac?  I just discovered it while searching 
> > > > > online, but I'm skeptical and suspicious.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Also by searching online, I found that from within Chrome, using an 
> > > > > extension, I'm supposed to be able to emulate I.E. on my Mac.  But
> > > > > the 
> > > > > Test I.E. extension using Browserstack.com costs 40$ per month, and
> > > > > the I.E. Tab.net extension I downloaded and installed is Windoze only.  
> > > > > (The idiots that  wrote the Web site didn't bother to write on the
> > > > > site that the extension was for Windoze only).
> > > > 
> > > > Why do you want Internet Explorer? 
> > > > 
> > > > To quote Luke Skywalker: "What a piece of junk", which is why they
> > > > stopped making a Mac version.
> > > 
> > > If you develop web sites, you need to make sure it works with the 
> > > browsers your users use. Your personal preferences are not very relevant.
> > 
> > The original message doesn't say why they want Internet Explorer. There
> > may be a legitimate reason such as website testing, or there may be a
> > reason which can be gotten around using another, more sensible browser
> > ... that's why I asked.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > And like it or not, IE still has a sizable user community.
> > 
> > If you build the website properly, then it will work in every sensible
> > web browser, and for the most part even in Internet Explorer as well.
> > The issues start when you try to do fancy, usually unnecessary, things
> > that only work in Internet Explorer (which seems especially prevalent
> > in Government websites!).
> 
> If you do things that only work in IE, you won't have a problem porting 
> to IE! The problem is that IE 8 and older don't support many standard 
> HTML/Javascript/CSS features. So adhering to standards doesn't mean it 
> your site will work properly in IE.

As I said, Internet Explorer is a piece of non-standard junk. Hopefully
the stories of it being killed off do happen and Microsloth grows a
brain and starts sticking to the established standards.

Many websites simply don't bother trying to satisfy all the weird and
wacky problems that occure and have a little banner that says "looks
best in" Chrome, Firefox, or whatever browser.

Even then there are still issues caused by things like font differences
that cause still issues.

The real problem is those idiotic websites that insist on Windoze-only
garbage like .NET to work.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68465

Okay, so one time? In band camp? Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> was all, like:
> In article <140120151327017800%YourName@YourISP.com>,
>  Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

>> In article <barmar-79AC90.16015013012015@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu>,
>> Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>> > In article <140120150904095929%YourName@YourISP.com>,
>> >  Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>> > > In article <2015011307565647215-tomevans9890@yahoo.ca>, Tom Evans
>> > > <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> > > > 
>> > > > Is Netrenderer (http://www.Netrenderer.com) a good way to emulate 
>> > > > Internet Explorer on a Mac?  I just discovered it while searching 
>> > > > online, but I'm skeptical and suspicious.
>> > > > 
>> > > > Also by searching online, I found that from within Chrome, using an 
>> > > > extension, I'm supposed to be able to emulate I.E. on my Mac.  But the 
>> > > > Test I.E. extension using Browserstack.com costs 40$ per month, and the 
>> > > > I.E. Tab.net extension I downloaded and installed is Windoze only.  
>> > > > (The idiots that  wrote the Web site didn't bother to write on the site 
>> > > > that the extension was for Windoze only).
>> > > 
>> > > Why do you want Internet Explorer? 
>> > > 
>> > > To quote Luke Skywalker: "What a piece of junk", which is why they
>> > > stopped making a Mac version.
>> > 
>> > If you develop web sites, you need to make sure it works with the 
>> > browsers your users use. Your personal preferences are not very relevant.
>> 
>> The original message doesn't say why they want Internet Explorer. There
>> may be a legitimate reason such as website testing, or there may be a
>> reason which can be gotten around using another, more sensible browser
>> ... that's why I asked.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> > And like it or not, IE still has a sizable user community.
>> 
>> If you build the website properly, then it will work in every sensible
>> web browser, and for the most part even in Internet Explorer as well.
>> The issues start when you try to do fancy, usually unnecessary, things
>> that only work in Internet Explorer (which seems especially prevalent
>> in Government websites!).

> If you do things that only work in IE, you won't have a problem porting 
> to IE! The problem is that IE 8 and older don't support many standard 
> HTML/Javascript/CSS features. So adhering to standards doesn't mean it 
> your site will work properly in IE.

If the site looks fine in Firefox and Chrome, who the fuck cares?


-- 
http://2blog.kreme.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68471

In article <slrnmbji7c.j8d.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org>, Lewis
<g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> >> If you build the website properly, then it will work in every sensible
> >> web browser, and for the most part even in Internet Explorer as well.
> >> The issues start when you try to do fancy, usually unnecessary, things
> >> that only work in Internet Explorer (which seems especially prevalent
> >> in Government websites!).
> 
> > If you do things that only work in IE, you won't have a problem porting 
> > to IE! The problem is that IE 8 and older don't support many standard 
> > HTML/Javascript/CSS features. So adhering to standards doesn't mean it 
> > your site will work properly in IE.
> 
> If the site looks fine in Firefox and Chrome, who the fuck cares?

people who use ie, and there's unfortunately, a lot of them.

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#68478

In article <160120152149182335%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
 nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <slrnmbji7c.j8d.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org>, Lewis
> <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> 
> > >> If you build the website properly, then it will work in every sensible
> > >> web browser, and for the most part even in Internet Explorer as well.
> > >> The issues start when you try to do fancy, usually unnecessary, things
> > >> that only work in Internet Explorer (which seems especially prevalent
> > >> in Government websites!).
> > 
> > > If you do things that only work in IE, you won't have a problem porting 
> > > to IE! The problem is that IE 8 and older don't support many standard 
> > > HTML/Javascript/CSS features. So adhering to standards doesn't mean it 
> > > your site will work properly in IE.
> > 
> > If the site looks fine in Firefox and Chrome, who the fuck cares?
> 

What a totally ignorant remark... but then, it *is* Lewis, a sort of 
self-centred super-autistic. How do people get to be such fuckwits? 

> people who use ie, and there's unfortunately, a lot of them.

-- 
dorayme

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#68483

On 2015-01-17, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>
> If the site looks fine in Firefox and Chrome, who the fuck cares?

The obvious answer is: anyone and everyone not using Firefox or Chrome.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#68500

Okay, so one time? In band camp? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> was all, like:
> On 2015-01-17, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>
>> If the site looks fine in Firefox and Chrome, who the fuck cares?

> The obvious answer is: anyone and everyone not using Firefox or Chrome.

Not really. If the site looks fine in FF and Chrome, it's going to look
fine in any other modern browser. Even IE versions that are not 10 years
old.

-- 
http://2blog.kreme.com

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#68510

On 2015-01-18, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> Okay, so one time? In band camp? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> was all, like:
>> On 2015-01-17, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>>
>>> If the site looks fine in Firefox and Chrome, who the fuck cares?
>
>> The obvious answer is: anyone and everyone not using Firefox or Chrome.
>
> Not really. If the site looks fine in FF and Chrome, it's going to look
> fine in any other modern browser. Even IE versions that are not 10 years
> old.

As I tediously explained in a previous reply in this thread, that is
clearly *not* the case, due to inconsistencies in the way various
browsers (and IE in particular) mishandle web pages. You're just plain
wrong.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#68403

On 2015-01-13 20:04:09 +0000, Your Name said:

> In article <2015011307565647215-tomevans9890@yahoo.ca>, Tom Evans
> <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> 
>> Is Netrenderer (http://www.Netrenderer.com) a good way to emulate
>> Internet Explorer on a Mac?  I just discovered it while searching
>> online, but I'm skeptical.

>> Also by searching online, I found that from within Chrome, using an
>> extension, I'm supposed to be able to emulate I.E. on my Mac.  But the
>> Test I.E. extension using Browserstack.com costs 40$ per month, and the
>> I.E. Tab.net extension I downloaded and installed is Windoze only.
>> (The idiots that  wrote the Web site didn't bother to write on the site
>> that the extension was for Windoze only).
> 
> Why do you want Internet Explorer?

Because it's messing up some of my Web site's links to named anchors, 
and it would be handy to have I.E. here to test my site, instead of 
going out to the community center to check on a non-Mac computer there.

About five percent of my Web site 'visitors' are viewing my site with I.E.

> To quote Luke Skywalker: "What a piece of junk", which is why they
> stopped making a Mac version.
> 
> Reportedly the Windoze versions of Internet Explorer is going to be
> killed off anyway and will be replaced by a new Microsloth web browser
> ... probably just as much of a digusting mess and ignore the
> established standards to do things its own way.  :-\
> 
> 
> I haven't checked recent releases, but some Mac web browsers do have
> the option to pretend they are Windoze Internet Explorer. How
> successful that is depends on what you trying to do and the website(s)
> you visiting - if they insist on stupidities like .NET or some Internet
> Explorer-only non-standard idiocy, then no amount of pretending will
> help.
> 
>> I've experienced much trouble to emulate Internet Explorer on my Macs.
>> 
>> I tried Wine and Wine Bottler a couple of years ago.  It didn't work
>> and made a big mess, so I soon gave up on it.
> 
> WINE is utter garbage and a complete waste of time. Even most of the
> applications they claim work, don't actually work properly or fully.

Yeah, I quickly came to the same realization when I tried it.

>> I used Virtual P.C. several years ago.  It worked but was sluggish.
>> 
>> Bootcamp sounds like it's a big hassle.
>> 
>> Is there a relatively easy way and inexpensive way to do it?
>> 
>> I'm using Yosemite system on an Imac.
> 
> Bootcamp requires rebooting to change which operating system you're
> using (Mac OS X, Windoze, Linux, etc.).
> 
> VMWare Fusion or Parallels Desktop will allow your to have a virtual
> Windoze PC running alongside Mac applications (and transfer files,
> copy-paste, etc. between the two operating systems).
> 
> There is VirtualBox and a couple of others, which are shareware /
> freeware options similar to Fusion and Desktop, but they are less
> professional and more difficult to set-up.
> 
> All of these need a legal version of Windoze to be installed (as well
> as legal versions of any Windoze applications you want to use).

Thanks, Your.  How much do a Windoze license and I.E. cost?  I couldn't 
see the prices on the Microslosh site.

Tom Evans

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#68412

On 2015-01-14, Tom Evans <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Your.  How much do a Windoze license and I.E. cost?  I couldn't 
> see the prices on the Microslosh site.

Wow. As I have mentioned several times, you don't have to buy anything.
You can do it completely for free with VirtualBox and modern.ie VM
images. You apparently either can't read my posts or don't believe me.
Go ahead and spend money on unnecessary things if you insist. Your loss.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#68418

In article <2015011322251158184-tomevans9890@yahoo.ca>, Tom Evans
<tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On 2015-01-13 20:04:09 +0000, Your Name said:
> > In article <2015011307565647215-tomevans9890@yahoo.ca>, Tom Evans
> > <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >> 
> >> Is Netrenderer (http://www.Netrenderer.com) a good way to emulate
> >> Internet Explorer on a Mac?  I just discovered it while searching
> >> online, but I'm skeptical.
> 
> >> Also by searching online, I found that from within Chrome, using an
> >> extension, I'm supposed to be able to emulate I.E. on my Mac.  But the
> >> Test I.E. extension using Browserstack.com costs 40$ per month, and the
> >> I.E. Tab.net extension I downloaded and installed is Windoze only.
> >> (The idiots that  wrote the Web site didn't bother to write on the site
> >> that the extension was for Windoze only).
> > 
> > Why do you want Internet Explorer?
> 
> Because it's messing up some of my Web site's links to named anchors, 
> and it would be handy to have I.E. here to test my site, instead of 
> going out to the community center to check on a non-Mac computer there.
> 
> About five percent of my Web site 'visitors' are viewing my site with I.E.

Having done simple HTML websites in the past, I can tell you that it's
not just Internet Explorer that mishandles websites. Almost every
browser and operating system combination there is behaves differently
in some way, making website design a pain in the backside - once you
get something "working" in one browser, another starts showing up
problems.   :-\

I don't recall named anchors being one of the problems I ever came
across though. It could potentially be caused by font differences
causing a reflow of the website's text and shifting the anchor.




> >> I used Virtual P.C. several years ago.  It worked but was sluggish.
> >> 
> >> Bootcamp sounds like it's a big hassle.
> >> 
> >> Is there a relatively easy way and inexpensive way to do it?
> >> 
> >> I'm using Yosemite system on an Imac.
> > 
> > Bootcamp requires rebooting to change which operating system you're
> > using (Mac OS X, Windoze, Linux, etc.).
> > 
> > VMWare Fusion or Parallels Desktop will allow your to have a virtual
> > Windoze PC running alongside Mac applications (and transfer files,
> > copy-paste, etc. between the two operating systems).
> > 
> > There is VirtualBox and a couple of others, which are shareware /
> > freeware options similar to Fusion and Desktop, but they are less
> > professional and more difficult to set-up.
> > 
> > All of these need a legal version of Windoze to be installed (as well
> > as legal versions of any Windoze applications you want to use).
> 
> Thanks, Your.  How much do a Windoze license and I.E. cost?  I couldn't 
> see the prices on the Microslosh site.

Internet Explorer is free. 

Windoze depends on which of the multitude of versions you want to use -
the cheapest being one of the "home user" versions. Best to check an
online store like Amazon or a big local computer store.

As someone else mentioned, you can (or used to?) buy a bundle with
Windoze coming with Fusion and Parallels.

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