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Mail insecurity

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Contents

  Mail insecurity Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-09 15:06 -0500
    Re: Mail insecurity Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-09 12:19 -0800
      Re: Mail insecurity Jerry Bishop <jerry.bishop@nowhere.nohow.com> - 2015-01-12 11:07 -0500
        Re: Mail insecurity Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-12 16:15 +0000
        Re: Mail insecurity Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-12 12:06 -0800
    Re: Mail insecurity Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2015-01-09 15:55 -0500
      Re: Mail insecurity Wilbur Eleven <wil@nowhere.at.all.ru.ca.fr.uk.us> - 2015-01-10 08:33 -0500
        Re: Mail insecurity Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2015-01-10 06:30 -0800
        Re: Mail insecurity Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2015-01-11 09:48 -0500
    Re: Mail insecurity Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-09 21:32 +0000
      Re: Mail insecurity android <here@there.was> - 2015-01-11 09:10 +0100
        Re: Mail insecurity Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-11 00:39 -0800
          Re: Mail insecurity android <here@there.was> - 2015-01-11 10:09 +0100
            Re: Mail insecurity Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-11 01:14 -0800
              Re: Mail insecurity android <here@there.was> - 2015-01-11 10:41 +0100
                Re: Mail insecurity Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-11 14:28 +0000
                Re: Mail insecurity Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-11 11:48 -0800
                  Re: Mail insecurity android <here@there.was> - 2015-01-11 20:56 +0100
                    Re: Mail insecurity Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-11 12:04 -0800
                      Re: Mail insecurity Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-11 20:09 +0000
                      Re: Mail insecurity android <here@there.was> - 2015-01-11 21:24 +0100
                        Re: Mail insecurity Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-11 12:28 -0800
                        Re: Mail insecurity Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-11 21:49 +0000
                        Re: Mail insecurity Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-11 23:16 +0000
            Re: Mail insecurity Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-11 14:27 +0000
          Re: Mail insecurity Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-11 14:27 +0000
        Re: Mail insecurity Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-11 14:26 +0000
          Re: Mail insecurity android <here@there.was> - 2015-01-11 15:42 +0100
            Re: Mail insecurity Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-11 14:58 +0000
              Re: Mail insecurity android <here@there.was> - 2015-01-11 16:16 +0100
              Re: Mail insecurity Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-11 19:01 -0500
    Re: Mail insecurity Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> - 2015-01-11 13:19 -0500

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#68179 — Mail insecurity

<http://www.itworld.com/article/2867215/glitch-in-os-x-search-can-expose-
private-details-of-apple-mail-users.html>

All one line, dat.
-- 
Where's the Vangelis music?
Pris' tongue is sticking out in in the wide shot after Batty has kissed her.
They have put back more tits into the Zhora dressing  room scene.
  -- notes for Blade Runner

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#68180

On 2015-01-09 20:06:35 +0000, Warren Oates said:

> <http://www.itworld.com/article/2867215/glitch-in-os-x-search-can-expose-
> private-details-of-apple-mail-users.html>
> 
> All one line, dat.

By "private details"...

...they mean "IP address".

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#68304

On 2015-01-09 20:19:24 +0000, Alan Baker said:

> On 2015-01-09 20:06:35 +0000, Warren Oates said:
> 
>> <http://www.itworld.com/article/2867215/glitch-in-os-x-search-can-expose-
>> private-details-of-apple-mail-users.html>
>> 
>> All one line, dat.
> 
> By "private details"...
> 
> ...they mean "IP address".

Telling the spammers they have a live machine at the other end of a 
message, thereby provoking more spam.

And possibly opening up the machine for a drive-by malware download.

I set the option for not viewing remote content without express 
permission for a reason, and the Spotlight needs to honor that setting. 
 Although this isn't the most dangerous bug in the world by a long 
shot, it's still clearly a bug with implications.

Hopefully this will be fixed in 10.10.2.

Best,
Jerry

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#68305

On 2015-01-12, Jerry Bishop <jerry.bishop@nowhere.nohow.com> wrote:
> On 2015-01-09 20:19:24 +0000, Alan Baker said:
>
>> On 2015-01-09 20:06:35 +0000, Warren Oates said:
>> 
>>> <http://www.itworld.com/article/2867215/glitch-in-os-x-search-can-expose-
>>> private-details-of-apple-mail-users.html>
>>> 
>>> All one line, dat.
>> 
>> By "private details"...
>> 
>> ...they mean "IP address".
>
> Telling the spammers they have a live machine at the other end of a 
> message, thereby provoking more spam.

It won't make all that much difference in the end, since the vast
majority of spam messages are sent without regard for weather the
address in question is valid, and spam filtering takes care of spam just
fine for lots of folks.

> And possibly opening up the machine for a drive-by malware download.

Nope, the machine is no more open to malware than before.

> I set the option for not viewing remote content without express 
> permission for a reason, and the Spotlight needs to honor that setting. 

And it will, as soon as Apple fixes this omission. In the mean time,
avoiding the issue is as simple as refraining from viewing previews of
emails in Spotlight search results. Simple.

>  Although this isn't the most dangerous bug in the world by a long 
> shot, it's still clearly a bug with implications.

Sure, though nowhere near as bad as some are claiming.

> Hopefully this will be fixed in 10.10.2.

I have faith it will be addressed by Apple in a future update.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#68315

On 2015-01-12 16:07:04 +0000, Jerry Bishop said:

> On 2015-01-09 20:19:24 +0000, Alan Baker said:
> 
>> On 2015-01-09 20:06:35 +0000, Warren Oates said:
>> 
>>> <http://www.itworld.com/article/2867215/glitch-in-os-x-search-can-expose-
>>> private-details-of-apple-mail-users.html>
>>> 
>>> All one line, dat.
>> 
>> By "private details"...
>> 
>> ...they mean "IP address".
> 
> Telling the spammers they have a live machine at the other end of a 
> message, thereby provoking more spam.

Oh, no!

> 
> And possibly opening up the machine for a drive-by malware download.

Only if the user is an idiot.

> 
> I set the option for not viewing remote content without express 
> permission for a reason, and the Spotlight needs to honor that setting. 
>  Although this isn't the most dangerous bug in the world by a long 
> shot, it's still clearly a bug with implications.
> 
> Hopefully this will be fixed in 10.10.2.

Should it honour the setting? Yes.

Is it that big a deal? No.

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#68182

Warren Oates:

> <http://www.itworld.com/article/2867215/glitch-in-os-x-search-can-expose-
> private-details-of-apple-mail-users.html>
> 
> All one line, dat.

Yawn.

-- 
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

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#68192

In article <090120151555463162%star@sky.net>, Davoud <star@sky.net> 
wrote:

> Warren Oates:
> 
> > <http://www.itworld.com/article/2867215/glitch-in-os-x-search-can-expose-
> > private-details-of-apple-mail-users.html>
> > 
> > All one line, dat.
> 
> Yawn.

So, Davoud, whilst you're awake, and on an entirely different topic: 
would you categorize Gen. Petraeus as as nefarious a traitor as Snowden?

-- 

Fine then, I'm drinking coffee and rolling cigarettes and looking 
out at the hot baked street and a lady just walked by wiggling it 
in tight white pants, and we are not dead yet.

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#68193

On 2015-01-10 13:33:47 +0000, Wilbur Eleven 
<wil@nowhere.at.all.ru.ca.fr.uk.us> said:

> In article <090120151555463162%star@sky.net>, Davoud <star@sky.net>
> wrote:
> 
>> Warren Oates:
>> 
>>> <http://www.itworld.com/article/2867215/glitch-in-os-x-search-can-expose-
>>> private-details-of-apple-mail-users.html>
>>> 
>>> All one line, dat.
>> 
>> Yawn.
> 
> So, Davoud, whilst you're awake, and on an entirely different topic:
> would you categorize Gen. Petraeus as as nefarious a traitor as Snowden?

Just pussy whipped.

-- 
Regards,

Savageduck

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#68241

Davoud: 
> > Yawn.

Wilbur Eleven:
> So, Davoud, whilst you're awake, and on an entirely different topic: 
> would you categorize Gen. Petraeus as as nefarious a traitor as Snowden?

A guy who commits foolish indiscretions is just that--foolish--and not
in the same league as one who sets about to inflict as much harm as
possible on his country and the Western world. Granted, the end result
could be the same, but it wasn't in the Petraeus case. I think that
punishment is called for to remind future executives that rank will not
protect them in instances of wrongdoing.

I believe that Savageduck said "pussy-whipped." That's a somewhat
crude, but probably accurate, description of Petraeus at the time of
his indiscretion.

-- 
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

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#68183

On 2015-01-09, Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> wrote:
><http://www.itworld.com/article/2867215/glitch-in-os-x-search-can-expose-
> private-details-of-apple-mail-users.html>
>
> All one line, dat.

"Insecurity"? Hardly. Emails sent to you with tracking images are
displayed with the images. Trackers get to know you read an email they
sent you. The world won't stop spinning, and the security of your
computer is not compromised. Much ado about essentially nothing. In the
mean time, Apple will naturally fix it to honor your settings in the
Mail application.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#68223

In article <chavn3F2b8iU3@mid.individual.net>,
 Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2015-01-09, Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> wrote:
> ><http://www.itworld.com/article/2867215/glitch-in-os-x-search-can-expose-
> > private-details-of-apple-mail-users.html>
> >
> > All one line, dat.
> 
> "Insecurity"? Hardly. Emails sent to you with tracking images are
> displayed with the images. Trackers get to know you read an email they
> sent you. The world won't stop spinning, and the security of your
> computer is not compromised. Much ado about essentially nothing. In the
> mean time, Apple will naturally fix it to honor your settings in the
> Mail application.

Until then your mail app sends out receipts on all the mails you've kept 
inside the Mail database... Cute! :-p
-- 
teleportation kills

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#68225

On 2015-01-11 08:10:54 +0000, android said:

> In article <chavn3F2b8iU3@mid.individual.net>,
>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 2015-01-09, Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> <http://www.itworld.com/article/2867215/glitch-in-os-x-search-can-expose-
>>> private-details-of-apple-mail-users.html>
>>> 
>>> All one line, dat.
>> 
>> "Insecurity"? Hardly. Emails sent to you with tracking images are
>> displayed with the images. Trackers get to know you read an email they
>> sent you. The world won't stop spinning, and the security of your
>> computer is not compromised. Much ado about essentially nothing. In the
>> mean time, Apple will naturally fix it to honor your settings in the
>> Mail application.
> 
> Until then your mail app sends out receipts on all the mails you've kept
> inside the Mail database... Cute! :-p

What is that other than idle speculation?

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#68226

In article <m8tcsj$uj1$1@news.datemas.de>,
 Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> wrote:

> On 2015-01-11 08:10:54 +0000, android said:
> 
> > In article <chavn3F2b8iU3@mid.individual.net>,
> >  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> On 2015-01-09, Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> <http://www.itworld.com/article/2867215/glitch-in-os-x-search-can-expose-
> >>> private-details-of-apple-mail-users.html>
> >>> 
> >>> All one line, dat.
> >> 
> >> "Insecurity"? Hardly. Emails sent to you with tracking images are
> >> displayed with the images. Trackers get to know you read an email they
> >> sent you. The world won't stop spinning, and the security of your
> >> computer is not compromised. Much ado about essentially nothing. In the
> >> mean time, Apple will naturally fix it to honor your settings in the
> >> Mail application.
> > 
> > Until then your mail app sends out receipts on all the mails you've kept
> > inside the Mail database... Cute! :-p
> 
> What is that other than idle speculation?

You didn't read the article, did you?
-- 
teleportation kills

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#68227

On 2015-01-11 09:09:38 +0000, android said:

> In article <m8tcsj$uj1$1@news.datemas.de>,
>  Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 2015-01-11 08:10:54 +0000, android said:
>> 
>>> In article <chavn3F2b8iU3@mid.individual.net>,
>>> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 2015-01-09, Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> <http://www.itworld.com/article/2867215/glitch-in-os-x-search-can-expose-
>>>>> private-details-of-apple-mail-users.html>
>>>>> 
>>>>> All one line, dat.
>>>> 
>>>> "Insecurity"? Hardly. Emails sent to you with tracking images are
>>>> displayed with the images. Trackers get to know you read an email they
>>>> sent you. The world won't stop spinning, and the security of your
>>>> computer is not compromised. Much ado about essentially nothing. In the
>>>> mean time, Apple will naturally fix it to honor your settings in the
>>>> Mail application.
>>> 
>>> Until then your mail app sends out receipts on all the mails you've kept
>>> inside the Mail database... Cute! :-p
>> 
>> What is that other than idle speculation?
> 
> You didn't read the article, did you?

Actually, I did.

Here's what it said:

"A preview of the unopened emails was shown by Spotlight, which 
revealed to the operator of the server hosting the pixels the 
receiver’s IP address, current OS version and some details about the 
browser used as well as the version of Quick Look, a program that let’s 
users preview a document."

So basically, IP address plus some generic info about the computer being used.

Nothing about "receipts on all the mails you've kept inside the Mail 
database"...

...whatever you think you meant.

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#68228

In article <m8tets$2ak$1@news.datemas.de>,
 Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> wrote:

> On 2015-01-11 09:09:38 +0000, android said:
> 
> > In article <m8tcsj$uj1$1@news.datemas.de>,
> >  Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> wrote:
> > 
> >> On 2015-01-11 08:10:54 +0000, android said:
> >> 
> >>> In article <chavn3F2b8iU3@mid.individual.net>,
> >>> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>>> On 2015-01-09, Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> <http://www.itworld.com/article/2867215/glitch-in-os-x-search-can-expose
> >>>>> -
> >>>>> private-details-of-apple-mail-users.html>
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> All one line, dat.
> >>>> 
> >>>> "Insecurity"? Hardly. Emails sent to you with tracking images are
> >>>> displayed with the images. Trackers get to know you read an email they
> >>>> sent you. The world won't stop spinning, and the security of your
> >>>> computer is not compromised. Much ado about essentially nothing. In the
> >>>> mean time, Apple will naturally fix it to honor your settings in the
> >>>> Mail application.
> >>> 
> >>> Until then your mail app sends out receipts on all the mails you've kept
> >>> inside the Mail database... Cute! :-p
> >> 
> >> What is that other than idle speculation?
> > 
> > You didn't read the article, did you?
> 
> Actually, I did.
> 
> Here's what it said:
> 
> "A preview of the unopened emails was shown by Spotlight, which 
> revealed to the operator of the server hosting the pixels the 
> receiver’s IP address, current OS version and some details about the 
> browser used as well as the version of Quick Look, a program that let’s 
> users preview a document."
> 
> So basically, IP address plus some generic info about the computer being 
> used.
> 
> Nothing about "receipts on all the mails you've kept inside the Mail 
> database"...
> 
> ...whatever you think you meant.

But it does. The most common receipt is to tag files downloaded when the 
mail is opened. That happens when Spotlight indexes the Yosemite Mail 
database to generate previews.
-- 
teleportation kills

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#68238

On 2015-01-11, android <here@there.was> wrote:
> In article <m8tets$2ak$1@news.datemas.de>,
>  Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> wrote:
>
>> On 2015-01-11 09:09:38 +0000, android said:
>> 
>> > In article <m8tcsj$uj1$1@news.datemas.de>,
>> >  Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> wrote:
>> > 
>> >> On 2015-01-11 08:10:54 +0000, android said:
>> >> 
>> >>> In article <chavn3F2b8iU3@mid.individual.net>,
>> >>> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> >>> 
>> >>>> On 2015-01-09, Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>> <http://www.itworld.com/article/2867215/glitch-in-os-x-search-can-expose
>> >>>>> -
>> >>>>> private-details-of-apple-mail-users.html>
>> >>>>> 
>> >>>>> All one line, dat.
>> >>>> 
>> >>>> "Insecurity"? Hardly. Emails sent to you with tracking images are
>> >>>> displayed with the images. Trackers get to know you read an email they
>> >>>> sent you. The world won't stop spinning, and the security of your
>> >>>> computer is not compromised. Much ado about essentially nothing. In the
>> >>>> mean time, Apple will naturally fix it to honor your settings in the
>> >>>> Mail application.
>> >>> 
>> >>> Until then your mail app sends out receipts on all the mails you've kept
>> >>> inside the Mail database... Cute! :-p
>> >> 
>> >> What is that other than idle speculation?
>> > 
>> > You didn't read the article, did you?
>> 
>> Actually, I did.
>> 
>> Here's what it said:
>> 
>> "A preview of the unopened emails was shown by Spotlight, which 
>> revealed to the operator of the server hosting the pixels the 
>> receiver’s IP address, current OS version and some details about the 
>> browser used as well as the version of Quick Look, a program that let’s 
>> users preview a document."
>> 
>> So basically, IP address plus some generic info about the computer being 
>> used.
>> 
>> Nothing about "receipts on all the mails you've kept inside the Mail 
>> database"...
>> 
>> ...whatever you think you meant.
>
> But it does. The most common receipt is to tag files downloaded when the 
> mail is opened. That happens when Spotlight indexes the Yosemite Mail 
> database to generate previews.

Wrong. Previews aren't generated before users ask to see the preview.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#68268

On 2015-01-11 09:41:04 +0000, android said:

> In article <m8tets$2ak$1@news.datemas.de>,
>  Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 2015-01-11 09:09:38 +0000, android said:
>> 
>>> In article <m8tcsj$uj1$1@news.datemas.de>,
>>> Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 2015-01-11 08:10:54 +0000, android said:
>>>> 
>>>>> In article <chavn3F2b8iU3@mid.individual.net>,
>>>>> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2015-01-09, Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> <http://www.itworld.com/article/2867215/glitch-in-os-x-search-can-expose
>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>> private-details-of-apple-mail-users.html>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> All one line, dat.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "Insecurity"? Hardly. Emails sent to you with tracking images are
>>>>>> displayed with the images. Trackers get to know you read an email they
>>>>>> sent you. The world won't stop spinning, and the security of your
>>>>>> computer is not compromised. Much ado about essentially nothing. In the
>>>>>> mean time, Apple will naturally fix it to honor your settings in the
>>>>>> Mail application.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Until then your mail app sends out receipts on all the mails you've kept
>>>>> inside the Mail database... Cute! :-p
>>>> 
>>>> What is that other than idle speculation?
>>> 
>>> You didn't read the article, did you?
>> 
>> Actually, I did.
>> 
>> Here's what it said:
>> 
>> "A preview of the unopened emails was shown by Spotlight, which
>> revealed to the operator of the server hosting the pixels the
>> receiver’s IP address, current OS version and some details about the
>> browser used as well as the version of Quick Look, a program that let’s
>> users preview a document."
>> 
>> So basically, IP address plus some generic info about the computer being
>> used.
>> 
>> Nothing about "receipts on all the mails you've kept inside the Mail
>> database"...
>> 
>> ...whatever you think you meant.
> 
> But it does. The most common receipt is to tag files downloaded when the
> mail is opened. That happens when Spotlight indexes the Yosemite Mail
> database to generate previews.

I'm sorry, but is English not your first language?

"The most common receipt is"? What does that mean?

If what you're saying is that when you open an email in html format and 
display the images contained within it, that you are them starting a 
conversation with a remote server that will then know that you read the 
email and a few unimportant details about the system from which you 
read it, that's correct.

But you have no evidence that it happens when Spotlight does the 
indexing, and as far as I know, it doesn't happen.

What does happen is that when you access the Spotlight system to search 
for and then PREVIEW an email, at that time, you get an email preview 
presented complete with images and thus you communicate that you view 
THAT PARTICULAR email.

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#68270

In article <m8uk37$imf$1@news.datemas.de>,
 Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> wrote:

> If what you're saying is that when you open an email in html format and 
> display the images contained within it, that you are them starting a 
> conversation with a remote server that will then know that you read the 
> email and a few unimportant details about the system from which you 
> read it, that's correct.

That wasn't that hard to admit, was it? :-))
-- 
teleportation kills

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#68271

On 2015-01-11 19:56:20 +0000, android said:

> In article <m8uk37$imf$1@news.datemas.de>,
>  Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> wrote:
> 
>> If what you're saying is that when you open an email in html format and
>> display the images contained within it, that you are them starting a
>> conversation with a remote server that will then know that you read the
>> email and a few unimportant details about the system from which you
>> read it, that's correct.
> 
> That wasn't that hard to admit, was it? :-))

What did I "admit" that I hadn't already said.

"Until then your mail app sends out receipts on all the mails you've kept
inside the Mail database... Cute! :-p"

"all the mails": wrong.

"receipts": Yes. When you preview an html email using Spotlight, 
someone knows you saw it.

BFD.

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#68272

On 2015-01-11, Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> wrote:
> On 2015-01-11 19:56:20 +0000, android said:
>
>> In article <m8uk37$imf$1@news.datemas.de>,
>>  Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> If what you're saying is that when you open an email in html format and
>>> display the images contained within it, that you are them starting a
>>> conversation with a remote server that will then know that you read the
>>> email and a few unimportant details about the system from which you
>>> read it, that's correct.
>> 
>> That wasn't that hard to admit, was it? :-))
>
> What did I "admit" that I hadn't already said.
>
> "Until then your mail app sends out receipts on all the mails you've kept
> inside the Mail database... Cute! :-p"
>
> "all the mails": wrong.

Lame troll, too.

> "receipts": Yes. When you preview an html email [that contains web bug
> images] using Spotlight, someone knows you saw it.

There, I fixed it for you. : )

> BFD.

Indeed.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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