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The long decline of the Mac desktop?

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  The long decline of the Mac desktop? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-18 11:16 -0400
    Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? "China Blue [Tor], Meersburg" <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2012-08-18 08:32 -0700
      Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft@me.com> - 2012-08-18 10:45 -0500
        Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-08-18 16:49 +0100
          Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? "China Blue [Tor], Meersburg" <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2012-08-18 09:16 -0700
        Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net> - 2012-08-20 19:05 +0000
      Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-18 11:46 -0400
    Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2012-08-18 13:24 -0400
      Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-18 16:31 -0400
    Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2012-08-18 11:00 -0700
      Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2012-08-18 11:48 -0700
        Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2012-08-18 15:52 -0400
          Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-18 16:39 -0400
          Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2012-08-19 13:27 +0200
      Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-18 16:38 -0400
        Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? John Albert <j.albert@snet.net> - 2012-09-04 13:20 -0400
          Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? YourName@YourISP.com (Your Name) - 2012-09-05 09:21 +1200
          Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-09-04 22:32 +0100
            Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? John Albert <j.albert@snet.net> - 2012-09-06 12:11 -0400
              Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-09-06 17:45 +0100
              Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2012-09-07 05:31 +0000
          Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2012-09-05 10:47 +1000
    Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? YourName@YourISP.com (Your Name) - 2012-08-19 10:15 +1200
      Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-19 09:50 -0400
        Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2012-08-19 07:04 -0700
          Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-19 10:34 -0400
            Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2012-08-19 07:44 -0700
              Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-19 11:07 -0400
        Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Lloyd <lloydparsons@me.com> - 2012-08-19 09:41 -0500
          Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2012-08-19 10:46 -0400
            Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Lloyd <lloydparsons@me.com> - 2012-08-19 09:53 -0500
              Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2012-08-20 10:24 -0700
          Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-19 11:05 -0400
            Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? nospam@see.signature (Richard Maine) - 2012-08-19 08:56 -0700
              Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Lloyd <lloydparsons@me.com> - 2012-08-19 11:03 -0500
              Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? John Young <jy@scallawags.net> - 2012-08-19 12:10 -0400
          Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? YourName@YourISP.com (Your Name) - 2012-08-20 09:19 +1200
            Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-19 18:35 -0400
              Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? YourName@YourISP.com (Your Name) - 2012-08-20 13:13 +1200
                Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-20 17:31 -0400
                  Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? YourName@YourISP.com (Your Name) - 2012-08-21 13:22 +1200
                    Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-21 21:09 -0400
            Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2012-08-19 21:13 -0400
              Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2012-08-20 06:13 +0000
                Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2012-08-20 03:13 -0400
                  Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2012-08-20 19:06 +0000
                  Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-20 17:41 -0400
              Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2012-08-20 11:37 +0200
              Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop?   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2012-08-20 11:52 +0000
              Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2012-08-20 08:15 -0400
                Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft@me.com> - 2012-08-20 09:53 -0500
                  Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2012-08-20 11:32 -0400
                    Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft@me.com> - 2012-08-20 13:00 -0500
                      Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-20 17:32 -0400
                  Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Suze <replytome@thenewsgroup.com> - 2012-08-20 15:25 -0500
              Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-20 17:29 -0400
      Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Howard.not@home.com (Howard) - 2012-08-27 00:04 +0100
    Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2012-08-18 19:10 -0400
      Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-19 09:44 -0400
    Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2012-08-18 17:05 -0700
      Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-18 20:42 -0400
    Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Suze <replytome@thenewsgroup.com> - 2012-08-19 09:50 -0500
      Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-19 11:17 -0400
        Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? YourName@YourISP.com (Your Name) - 2012-08-20 09:21 +1200
          Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-19 18:42 -0400
            Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? YourName@YourISP.com (Your Name) - 2012-08-20 13:11 +1200
              Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2012-08-20 17:20 -0400
                Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? YourName@YourISP.com (Your Name) - 2012-08-21 13:26 +1200
    Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? dont.spam.usenet@googlemail.com (Hauke Fath) - 2012-08-21 14:14 +0200
    Re: The long decline of the Mac desktop? Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2012-09-07 20:45 -0700

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#30761

In message <5048cb39$0$15487$a8266bb1@newsreader.readnews.com> 
  John Albert <j.albert@snet.net> wrote:
> On 9/4/12 5:32 PM, Tim Streater wrote:
>> What's wrong with the existing model?

> I'm holding out for USB3 instead of USB2.

> Also, I expect the Mini's with Ivy Bridge will have the 
> Intel 4000 integrated graphics, which is reported to be much 
> better than the current Intel 3000 series.

Yeah, I'm looking to buy a mini and then either a new iMac or a new
MacPro. I'd prefer the Mac Pro, but I'm getting antsy to replace my
MacPro1,1 so I might not be able to wait.

-- 
I CAN BE ROBBED BUT NEVER DENIED, I TOLD MYSELF. WHY WORRY?  'I too
cannot be cheated,' snapped Fate.  SO I HAVE HEARD.

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#30614

In article <5046384b$0$15530$a8266bb1@newsreader.readnews.com>,
 John Albert <j.albert@snet.net> wrote:

> 2004-vintage PowerMac g4/1.25dp MDD. 
> It's had heavy usage (sometimes 12+ hours a day) for years, 
> and still doing fine. ...

> It still does everything I need to do for "general 
> home-office related stuff". Now and then I run into glitches 
> with web content, because the version of Safari on it is 
> dated and not upgradeable.

The pegging of browser developments for them is about the most serious 
downside. They were more than great machines for their time.

-- 
dorayme

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#29691

In article <Jq2dnV2GQYYjLLLNnZ2dnUVZ_jydnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> 
> The trend continues whereby Mac desktop sales are no longer growing.
> 
> In the 3 months ended 30 June 2012, Mac desktops were down 13% (units) 
> over the prior year, same period.  (For the 9 months ending the same 
> day, Mac desktop sales were up 9%)
> 
> Laptops were up 8% however showing that the power of laptops have now 
> made them the first choice of people getting their first Mac or updating 
> their system.  Portables are up 13% over the 9 month period.

Those figures are incredibly misleading, as they always are when taken out
of context. Many people are awaiting the new iMac release before buying,
while new laptops were released during that timeframe so were being
snapped up.

In reality, Mac computer sales have been and still are growing, just not
as massively fast as the iPad / iPhone figures - in fact Apple is one of
the few companies growing their sales during the "economic problems". The
"halo" effect is meaning more people are switching to Macs when it comes
time to upgrade their computers (which is currently less often then it
used to be).

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#29711

On 2012-08-18 18:15 , Your Name wrote:
> In article <Jq2dnV2GQYYjLLLNnZ2dnUVZ_jydnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>
>> The trend continues whereby Mac desktop sales are no longer growing.
>>
>> In the 3 months ended 30 June 2012, Mac desktops were down 13% (units)
>> over the prior year, same period.  (For the 9 months ending the same
>> day, Mac desktop sales were up 9%)
>>
>> Laptops were up 8% however showing that the power of laptops have now
>> made them the first choice of people getting their first Mac or updating
>> their system.  Portables are up 13% over the 9 month period.
>
> Those figures are incredibly misleading, as they always are when taken out
> of context. Many people are awaiting the new iMac release before buying,
> while new laptops were released during that timeframe so were being
> snapped up.
>
> In reality, Mac computer sales have been and still are growing, just not
> as massively fast as the iPad / iPhone figures - in fact Apple is one of
> the few companies growing their sales during the "economic problems". The
> "halo" effect is meaning more people are switching to Macs when it comes
> time to upgrade their computers (which is currently less often then it
> used to be).

I've been watching these figures over the last several quarters. 
"Waiting for the next" goes 1 or maybe 2 quarters.  Mac sales have 
slowed abruptly over the passed 2 quarters and there's little chance 
that this quarter will see an improvement - we'll see the figures in 
October.

I have no doubt that if they really pump up the desktop line there will 
be a spike, but I think that will be transient for 1 or 2 quarters and 
then go back down.  The long term trend for Mac desktops is slowing - as 
it is for desktop PC's elsewhere.  IOW the iDevice halo effect has run 
its course where desktop is concerned.

It's also possible that the diminishing performance delta between 
desktops and laptops has more people opting for the best of both worlds 
(includes portability).  The explosion in serial interfaced devices has 
helped in the conversion.  Not everyone really needs a large screen desktop.

Another effect that can't be ignored is that even if Mac sales remain 
close to $20B/yr, they continue to be of lesser overall importance to 
Apple's bottom line.  I don't know how Macs fare on margin but I suspect 
they are less lucrative than iDevices.

With all that, despite $20B/yr being a very nice business in and of 
itself, Apple may focus more where the best returns occur.

-- 
"C'mon boys, you're not laying pipe!".
                                 -John Keating.

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#29712

In article <j6GdnXh2ts-Ocq3NnZ2dnUVZ_gSdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
 Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> I've been watching these figures over the last several quarters. 
> "Waiting for the next" goes 1 or maybe 2 quarters.  Mac sales have 
> slowed abruptly over the passed 2 quarters and there's little chance 
> that this quarter will see an improvement - we'll see the figures in 
> October.

Not really; the next iMac won't be released for sale until late September 
or early October at the earliest, so won't have much, if any, influence on 
this quarter.

> It's also possible that the diminishing performance delta between 
> desktops and laptops has more people opting for the best of both worlds 
> (includes portability). 

The delta is still significant.  Here's a comparison between the $1199 
models of the iMac and MacBook Pro:

Feature   iMac        MB Pro
display   21.5"       13"

CPU       2.5GHz      2.5 GHz
          quad core   dual core
          6MB cache   3MB cache

Storage   500GB       500GB
          7200 RPM    5400 RPM

Graphics  Radeon HD   Intel HD
          6750M       4000

The MB Pro does have faster RAM, Thunderbolt, and a better iSight camera.  
But it is a two-month old model, whereas the iMac is a 15-month old model, 
due for an update very soon.

-- 
Tea Party Patriots is to Patriotism as 
People's Democratic Republic is to Democracy.

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#29715

On 2012-08-19 10:04 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
> In article <j6GdnXh2ts-Ocq3NnZ2dnUVZ_gSdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>   Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> I've been watching these figures over the last several quarters.
>> "Waiting for the next" goes 1 or maybe 2 quarters.  Mac sales have
>> slowed abruptly over the passed 2 quarters and there's little chance
>> that this quarter will see an improvement - we'll see the figures in
>> October.
>
> Not really; the next iMac won't be released for sale until late September
> or early October at the earliest, so won't have much, if any, influence on
> this quarter.
>
>> It's also possible that the diminishing performance delta between
>> desktops and laptops has more people opting for the best of both worlds
>> (includes portability).
>
> The delta is still significant.  Here's a comparison between the $1199
> models of the iMac and MacBook Pro:
>
> Feature   iMac        MB Pro
> display   21.5"       13"
>
> CPU       2.5GHz      2.5 GHz
>            quad core   dual core
>            6MB cache   3MB cache
>
> Storage   500GB       500GB
>            7200 RPM    5400 RPM
>
> Graphics  Radeon HD   Intel HD
>            6750M       4000
>
> The MB Pro does have faster RAM, Thunderbolt, and a better iSight camera.
> But it is a two-month old model, whereas the iMac is a 15-month old model,
> due for an update very soon.

For someone who values portability, those differences are of marginal 
importance.  For s/he who needs the quad core and portability, there is 
the 15" MBP.  Yes, it's more expensive but also has a larger, higher 
resolution display as well as an i7 processor in lieu of the i5 of the 
low end iMac.

The numbers speak for themselves.  Portable sales in the last quarter 
for Mac were 3646000 v 1287000 - nearly 3:1.

-- 
"C'mon boys, you're not laying pipe!".
                                 -John Keating.

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#29718

In article <TfydnXZJnanqZK3NnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@giganews.com>,
 Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> For someone who values portability, those differences are of marginal 
> importance.

And for someone who has no need for portability, those differences are 
significant.

> For s/he who needs the quad core and portability, there is the 15" MBP.  
> Yes, it's more expensive but also has a larger, higher resolution 
> display as well as an i7 processor in lieu of the i5 of the low end 
> iMac.

True, but compare that 15" MBP with a similarly priced iMac, not with the 
base model iMac.

> The numbers speak for themselves.  Portable sales in the last quarter 
> for Mac were 3646000 v 1287000 - nearly 3:1.

All that shows is that more people prefer portability, and are willing to 
forego specs and/or are willing to pay more for that portability.

Fortunately, we all have those options so we can choose what's right for 
each of us.

-- 
Tea Party Patriots is to Patriotism as 
People's Democratic Republic is to Democracy.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#29724

On 2012-08-19 10:44 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
> In article <TfydnXZJnanqZK3NnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>   Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> For someone who values portability, those differences are of marginal
>> importance.
>
> And for someone who has no need for portability, those differences are
> significant.

No shit?

>
>> For s/he who needs the quad core and portability, there is the 15" MBP.
>> Yes, it's more expensive but also has a larger, higher resolution
>> display as well as an i7 processor in lieu of the i5 of the low end
>> iMac.
>
> True, but compare that 15" MBP with a similarly priced iMac, not with the
> base model iMac.

The real issue splits about portability, then performance and affordability.

>> The numbers speak for themselves.  Portable sales in the last quarter
>> for Mac were 3646000 v 1287000 - nearly 3:1.
>
> All that shows is that more people prefer portability, and are willing to
> forego specs and/or are willing to pay more for that portability.
>
> Fortunately, we all have those options so we can choose what's right for
> each of us.

No shit?



-- 
"C'mon boys, you're not laying pipe!".
                                 -John Keating.

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#29717

In article <j6GdnXh2ts-Ocq3NnZ2dnUVZ_gSdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
 Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> On 2012-08-18 18:15 , Your Name wrote:
> > In article <Jq2dnV2GQYYjLLLNnZ2dnUVZ_jydnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> > <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> >>
> >> The trend continues whereby Mac desktop sales are no longer growing.
> >>
> >> In the 3 months ended 30 June 2012, Mac desktops were down 13% (units)
> >> over the prior year, same period.  (For the 9 months ending the same
> >> day, Mac desktop sales were up 9%)
> >>
> >> Laptops were up 8% however showing that the power of laptops have now
> >> made them the first choice of people getting their first Mac or updating
> >> their system.  Portables are up 13% over the 9 month period.
> >
> > Those figures are incredibly misleading, as they always are when taken out
> > of context. Many people are awaiting the new iMac release before buying,
> > while new laptops were released during that timeframe so were being
> > snapped up.
> >
> > In reality, Mac computer sales have been and still are growing, just not
> > as massively fast as the iPad / iPhone figures - in fact Apple is one of
> > the few companies growing their sales during the "economic problems". The
> > "halo" effect is meaning more people are switching to Macs when it comes
> > time to upgrade their computers (which is currently less often then it
> > used to be).
> 
> I've been watching these figures over the last several quarters. 
> "Waiting for the next" goes 1 or maybe 2 quarters.  Mac sales have 
> slowed abruptly over the passed 2 quarters and there's little chance 
> that this quarter will see an improvement - we'll see the figures in 
> October.
> 
> I have no doubt that if they really pump up the desktop line there will 
> be a spike, but I think that will be transient for 1 or 2 quarters and 
> then go back down.  The long term trend for Mac desktops is slowing - as 
> it is for desktop PC's elsewhere.  IOW the iDevice halo effect has run 
> its course where desktop is concerned.
> 
> It's also possible that the diminishing performance delta between 
> desktops and laptops has more people opting for the best of both worlds 
> (includes portability).  The explosion in serial interfaced devices has 
> helped in the conversion.  Not everyone really needs a large screen desktop.
> 
> Another effect that can't be ignored is that even if Mac sales remain 
> close to $20B/yr, they continue to be of lesser overall importance to 
> Apple's bottom line.  I don't know how Macs fare on margin but I suspect 
> they are less lucrative than iDevices.
> 
> With all that, despite $20B/yr being a very nice business in and of 
> itself, Apple may focus more where the best returns occur.

Yeah, the desktop is a bit of a dying market, or at best a good but not 
excellent growth market as people discover that for what they do, the 
smaller devices can perform well enough.

I've been considering selling off my 27" iMac and getting a MacBook or 
Air and a big monitor instead.  But I keep running up against the 
smaller size of the screen, the relatively poor keyboards and pointing 
device and the usually much slower HD in the MacBook and most other 
laptops.

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#29719

In article 
<lloydparsons-81CD3E.09413119082012@news.eternal-september.org>,
 Lloyd <lloydparsons@me.com> wrote:

> 
> I've been considering selling off my 27" iMac and getting a MacBook or 
> Air and a big monitor instead.  But I keep running up against the 
> smaller size of the screen, the relatively poor keyboards and pointing 
> device and the usually much slower HD in the MacBook and most other 
> laptops.

Unless on the road, I always run my MBP with a USB keyboard and mouse 
and a big monitor. Went years ago from a desk top and haven't had any 
problems with this set-up.
-- 
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the bastards."-- Claire Wolfe

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#29722

In article <JqidnXLfTeOpYa3NnZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
 Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote:

> In article 
> <lloydparsons-81CD3E.09413119082012@news.eternal-september.org>,
>  Lloyd <lloydparsons@me.com> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > I've been considering selling off my 27" iMac and getting a MacBook or 
> > Air and a big monitor instead.  But I keep running up against the 
> > smaller size of the screen, the relatively poor keyboards and pointing 
> > device and the usually much slower HD in the MacBook and most other 
> > laptops.
> 
> Unless on the road, I always run my MBP with a USB keyboard and mouse 
> and a big monitor. Went years ago from a desk top and haven't had any 
> problems with this set-up.

That's what I've been considering and may yet do.

Yesterday I got a 24" Sony PS3 3D display to use as a bedroom TV.  At 
the moment it is connected to my W7 laptop that I use for 
Playon/Playlater and my PS3.

I'm giving that a run for a bit and will use the W7 laptop for some of 
my music engraving with Sibelius which is what I do other than the usual 
internet stuff on the iMac.  I'll have a better idea if that is 
something I like well enough.

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#29766

Lloyd <lloydparsons@me.com> writes:

> In article <JqidnXLfTeOpYa3NnZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
>  Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > In article 
> > <lloydparsons-81CD3E.09413119082012@news.eternal-september.org>,
> >  Lloyd <lloydparsons@me.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > I've been considering selling off my 27" iMac and getting a MacBook or 
> > > Air and a big monitor instead.  But I keep running up against the 
> > > smaller size of the screen, the relatively poor keyboards and pointing 
> > > device and the usually much slower HD in the MacBook and most other 
> > > laptops.
> > 
> > Unless on the road, I always run my MBP with a USB keyboard and mouse 
> > and a big monitor. Went years ago from a desk top and haven't had any 
> > problems with this set-up.
> 
> That's what I've been considering and may yet do.
> 
> Yesterday I got a 24" Sony PS3 3D display to use as a bedroom TV.  At 
> the moment it is connected to my W7 laptop that I use for 
> Playon/Playlater and my PS3.
> 
> I'm giving that a run for a bit and will use the W7 laptop for some of 
> my music engraving with Sibelius which is what I do other than the usual 
> internet stuff on the iMac.  I'll have a better idea if that is 
> something I like well enough.

A friend of mine has a MBA and one of these

http://hengedocks.com/order_mba.php

(together with external monitor, keyboard, mouse).

It works well for him.

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#29723

On 2012-08-19 10:41 , Lloyd wrote:
> In article <j6GdnXh2ts-Ocq3NnZ2dnUVZ_gSdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>   Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

>> Another effect that can't be ignored is that even if Mac sales remain
>> close to $20B/yr, they continue to be of lesser overall importance to
>> Apple's bottom line.  I don't know how Macs fare on margin but I suspect
>> they are less lucrative than iDevices.
>>
>> With all that, despite $20B/yr being a very nice business in and of
>> itself, Apple may focus more where the best returns occur.
>
> Yeah, the desktop is a bit of a dying market, or at best a good but not
> excellent growth market as people discover that for what they do, the
> smaller devices can perform well enough.
>
> I've been considering selling off my 27" iMac and getting a MacBook or
> Air and a big monitor instead.  But I keep running up against the
> smaller size of the screen, the relatively poor keyboards and pointing
> device and the usually much slower HD in the MacBook and most other
> laptops.

Everyone balances their needs.  Most people (almost 3:1 where Macs are 
concerned in the last quarter) seem to tip to the portables.  Portables 
don't suit my personal needs (display area in particular) but certainly 
suit my travel needs.

-- 
"C'mon boys, you're not laying pipe!".
                                 -John Keating.

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#29726

Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> On 2012-08-19 10:41 , Lloyd wrote:
> > Yeah, the desktop is a bit of a dying market, or at best a good but not
> > excellent growth market as people discover that for what they do, the
> > smaller devices can perform well enough.
> >
> > I've been considering selling off my 27" iMac and getting a MacBook or
> > Air and a big monitor instead.  But I keep running up against the
> > smaller size of the screen, the relatively poor keyboards and pointing
> > device and the usually much slower HD in the MacBook and most other
> > laptops.

Seems to me like you just contradicted yourself, though perhaps I
overlooked intended sarcasm. I was going to reply to the first para
above with a list of reasons that the smaller devices don't perform well
enough, but then I saw that in the second para, you pretty much already
did a good start at that.

And even if you connect the laptop to an external monitor, keyboad, and
mouse, as I used to do at work when NASA would provide me with either a
laptop or a desktop, but not both, you still run into limitations like
the video cards in laptops. Depends on your particular use, of course. I
managed ok with that setup for what I needed in a work machine. But it
wasn't even close to adequate for my home use, where games were
important.

> Everyone balances their needs.  Most people (almost 3:1 where Macs are
> concerned in the last quarter) seem to tip to the portables.  Portables
> don't suit my personal needs (display area in particular) but certainly
> suit my travel needs.

Yep. And my Macbook pro reasonably suits my personal travel needs. I
just got back from a month-long European vacation, where it served fine.
(I did do some gaming on it, but the game I was playing is over a decade
old - from gog.com - and was well within the capabilities of bootcamp on
the laptop).

But at home - no way. Not even if I replaced it with the newest model
and tricked it out with external stuff. In fact, after fighting it for
many years, I've finally largely given up doing games on my iMac (which
I'm typing this on). I broke down and got a Windows 7 desktop machine,
which I use for nothing but games. It works much better for the purpose
than either this iMac or my laptop. (Yes, I have bootcamp on both the
Macs, but my separate Windows 7 box still works *MUCH* better for
games).

Once I take games out of my personal Mac picture, I do find that my
laptop with adequate peripherals could be adequate for the rest. I've
told my wife that she could have this 27" iMac instead of buying
something new if she wanted something better to replace her 6-year-old
iMac. I could make do with the laptop plus my Windows game machine.

So maybe Apple desktops are starting to move out of my personal picture.
Desktops aren't, but Apple desktops might be.

That's just me. I quite acknowledge that other people have other needs
and make other tradeoffs.

-- 
Richard Maine                    | Good judgment comes from experience;
email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment.
domain: summertriangle           |  -- Mark Twain

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#29728

In article <1kp2fn4.9iks18xpym80N%nospam@see.signature>,
 nospam@see.signature (Richard Maine) wrote:

> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> 
> > On 2012-08-19 10:41 , Lloyd wrote:
> > > Yeah, the desktop is a bit of a dying market, or at best a good but not
> > > excellent growth market as people discover that for what they do, the
> > > smaller devices can perform well enough.
> > >
> > > I've been considering selling off my 27" iMac and getting a MacBook or
> > > Air and a big monitor instead.  But I keep running up against the
> > > smaller size of the screen, the relatively poor keyboards and pointing
> > > device and the usually much slower HD in the MacBook and most other
> > > laptops.
> 
> Seems to me like you just contradicted yourself, though perhaps I
> overlooked intended sarcasm. I was going to reply to the first para
> above with a list of reasons that the smaller devices don't perform well
> enough, but then I saw that in the second para, you pretty much already
> did a good start at that.
> 
> And even if you connect the laptop to an external monitor, keyboad, and
> mouse, as I used to do at work when NASA would provide me with either a
> laptop or a desktop, but not both, you still run into limitations like
> the video cards in laptops. Depends on your particular use, of course. I
> managed ok with that setup for what I needed in a work machine. But it
> wasn't even close to adequate for my home use, where games were
> important.
> 
For the most part, I use the iMac for the normal internet stuff.  Email, 
web surfing and online videos.

But I also use it for music engraving as a hobby.  I'm retired so don't 
do any actual work these days!  :)

You know, every day is a Saturday!!  :)

And I wasn't trying to be sarcastic in my post.  Yeah, the laptops all 
suffer from poor keyboards, pointing devices and screen size, which can 
be got around with external ones.  But that sort of defeats the purpose.

The hardest part for me is that I really don't have travel needs.  I'm 
at the point in my life where I don't enjoy travel much and often just 
make a trip or 3 a year to Kansas City area where most of my family is.  
But that is just a 6 hour drive away.  I don't fly anymore as I have 
much lesser tolerance for bullshit, and the airports and airlines are 
all about piling on bullshit these days!

So getting a MacBook or Air would be mostly about want...

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#29730

snip
> > Everyone balances their needs.  Most people (almost 3:1 where Macs are
> > concerned in the last quarter) seem to tip to the portables.  Portables
> > don't suit my personal needs (display area in particular) but certainly
> > suit my travel needs.
snip

Yes I always have a Desktop and a portable. My Mac Pros or earlier 
desktops last about six years. My Portables I usually replace in about 
two years. As you say about 3:1.

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#29733

In article
<lloydparsons-81CD3E.09413119082012@news.eternal-september.org>, Lloyd
<lloydparsons@me.com> wrote:
> 
> Yeah, the desktop is a bit of a dying market, or at best a good but not 
> excellent growth market as people discover that for what they do, the 
> smaller devices can perform well enough.
> 
> I've been considering selling off my 27" iMac and getting a MacBook or 
> Air and a big monitor instead.  But I keep running up against the 
> smaller size of the screen, the relatively poor keyboards and pointing 
> device and the usually much slower HD in the MacBook and most other 
> laptops.

Unless you actually need portability, getting a laptop is a rather silly
exercise in wasting money compared to an all-in-one like the iMac. 

A laptop with the equivalent power, storage space, etc. plus the extra
device like the larger display, external keyboard and mouse / trackpad
will cost you more to buy and use up more desk space. Many people buying a
laptop do so simply because it looks "cool" / as a trendy fashion
statment.

These days, even if you only need some degree of portability, you might
still be better off buying an iMac for "normal" use and an iPad for when
you want to be elsewhere.

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#29735

On 2012-08-19 17:19 , Your Name wrote:

> A laptop with the equivalent power, storage space, etc. plus the extra
> device like the larger display, external keyboard and mouse / trackpad
> will cost you more to buy and use up more desk space. Many people buying a
> laptop do so simply because it looks "cool" / as a trendy fashion
> statment.

It looks really silly when you plug your 27" Mac in at Starbucks or put 
in the basket at the airport to go through the x-ray.

> These days, even if you only need some degree of portability, you might
> still be better off buying an iMac for "normal" use and an iPad for when
> you want to be elsewhere.

That was my hope but iPad falls short in a couple key areas for my 
travel needs.

-- 
"C'mon boys, you're not laying pipe!".
                                 -John Keating.

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#29741

In article <Yv-dnVIxgZqi96zNnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2012-08-19 17:19 , Your Name wrote:
> >
> > A laptop with the equivalent power, storage space, etc. plus the extra
> > device like the larger display, external keyboard and mouse / trackpad
> > will cost you more to buy and use up more desk space. Many people buying a
> > laptop do so simply because it looks "cool" / as a trendy fashion
> > statment.
> 
> It looks really silly when you plug your 27" Mac in at Starbucks or put 
> in the basket at the airport to go through the x-ray.

I did have a paragraph before that which said "Unless you actually need
portability ..."

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#29784

On 2012-08-19 21:13 , Your Name wrote:
> In article <Yv-dnVIxgZqi96zNnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2012-08-19 17:19 , Your Name wrote:
>>>
>>> A laptop with the equivalent power, storage space, etc. plus the extra
>>> device like the larger display, external keyboard and mouse / trackpad
>>> will cost you more to buy and use up more desk space. Many people buying a
>>> laptop do so simply because it looks "cool" / as a trendy fashion
>>> statment.
>>
>> It looks really silly when you plug your 27" Mac in at Starbucks or put
>> in the basket at the airport to go through the x-ray.
>
> I did have a paragraph before that which said "Unless you actually need
> portability ..."

I was replying to your assertion that people buy laptops for appearances 
rather than function - I don't agree with that.

-- 
"C'mon boys, you're not laying pipe!".
                                 -John Keating.

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