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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #61742 > unrolled thread

Windows application on a Mac

Started byMichelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
First post2014-07-04 09:49 -0700
Last post2014-07-27 17:55 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 236 — 21 participants

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Contents

  Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 09:49 -0700
    Re: Windows application on a Mac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-07-04 13:02 -0400
      Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 11:47 -0700
        Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 11:49 -0700
        Re: Windows application on a Mac John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-07-04 20:40 +0100
          Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-04 19:43 +0000
            Re: Windows application on a Mac Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-07-05 09:23 +0200
              Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-05 15:28 +0000
                Re: Windows application on a Mac Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-07-05 19:42 +0200
                  Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-05 18:10 +0000
          Re: Windows application on a Mac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-07-04 15:50 -0400
            Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-04 22:37 +0000
              Re: Windows application on a Mac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-07-04 19:18 -0400
                Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-04 23:23 +0000
                  Re: Windows application on a Mac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-07-04 23:07 -0400
                    Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-05 03:26 +0000
                    Re: Windows application on a Mac John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-07-06 00:21 +0100
                Re: Windows application on a Mac John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-07-05 01:37 +0100
                  Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-05 00:56 +0000
                    Re: Windows application on a Mac John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-07-05 02:59 +0100
                  Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 19:21 -0700
                    Re: Windows application on a Mac John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-07-05 03:44 +0100
                      Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 20:08 -0700
                        Re: Windows application on a Mac John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-07-06 00:27 +0100
                          Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-05 17:15 -0700
                            Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-05 17:30 -0700
                      Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 20:09 -0700
                      Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-05 03:17 +0000
                        Re: Windows application on a Mac Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-07-05 01:40 -0400
                          Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-05 00:26 -0700
                          Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-05 06:57 -0700
                            Re: Windows application on a Mac Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-07-05 22:18 -0400
                  Re: Windows application on a Mac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-07-04 23:07 -0400
                    Re: Windows application on a Mac John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-07-06 00:57 +0100
                      Re: Windows application on a Mac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-07-06 21:56 -0400
                        Re: Windows application on a Mac John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-07-07 07:35 +0100
              Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 19:15 -0700
                Re: Windows application on a Mac John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-07-05 03:23 +0100
                  Re: Windows application on a Mac Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-07-05 14:45 +1200
                    Re: Windows application on a Mac John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-07-06 00:11 +0100
                      Re: Windows application on a Mac Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-07-06 12:41 +1200
                        Re: Windows application on a Mac John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-07-06 02:11 +0100
                  Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 20:06 -0700
                    Re: Windows application on a Mac John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-07-06 00:13 +0100
                Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-05 03:14 +0000
              Re: Windows application on a Mac jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2014-07-07 17:36 +1200
            Re: Windows application on a Mac John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-07-05 01:27 +0100
              Re: Windows application on a Mac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-07-04 23:07 -0400
              Re: Windows application on a Mac Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-07-05 13:49 +0200
          Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 13:06 -0700
            Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-04 22:38 +0000
              Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 19:24 -0700
                Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-05 03:17 +0000
            Re: Windows application on a Mac John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-07-05 01:44 +0100
              Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 19:57 -0700
                Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 20:00 -0700
                  Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 20:20 -0700
                    Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 20:22 -0700
                      Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-05 03:28 +0000
                      Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 21:54 -0700
                        Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 21:59 -0700
                          Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 22:11 -0700
                            Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 22:19 -0700
                        Re: Windows application on a Mac John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-07-06 01:05 +0100
                      Re: Windows application on a Mac billy@MIX.COM - 2014-07-06 03:10 +0000
                Re: Windows application on a Mac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-07-04 23:07 -0400
                  Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 21:28 -0700
                    Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-05 04:39 +0000
                      Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 21:41 -0700
                      Re: Windows application on a Mac John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-07-06 01:09 +0100
                        Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-05 17:38 -0700
                Re: Windows application on a Mac John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-07-06 01:00 +0100
            Re: Windows application on a Mac Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-07-05 03:26 +0000
              Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 22:02 -0700
                Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 22:03 -0700
                Re: Windows application on a Mac Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-07-05 05:23 +0000
                  Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-05 06:36 -0700
            Re: Windows application on a Mac Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-07-05 09:28 +0200
              Re: Windows application on a Mac Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-07-06 10:44 +1200
              Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-05 23:30 +0000
                Re: Windows application on a Mac billy@MIX.COM - 2014-07-06 03:52 +0000
        Re: Windows application on a Mac Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-07-05 09:10 +0200
          Re: Windows application on a Mac Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-07-05 07:19 -0700
        Re: Windows application on a Mac jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2014-07-07 14:52 +1200
          Re: Windows application on a Mac Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-07-07 16:36 +1200
            Re: Windows application on a Mac jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2014-07-07 17:25 +1200
              Re: Windows application on a Mac Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-07-07 16:22 +0000
      Re: Windows application on a Mac John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-07-04 20:38 +0100
        Re: Windows application on a Mac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-07-04 15:50 -0400
          Re: Windows application on a Mac John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-07-05 01:22 +0100
            Re: Windows application on a Mac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-07-04 23:07 -0400
    Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-04 17:05 +0000
      Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-04 17:17 +0000
        Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 11:49 -0700
          Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-04 18:55 +0000
            Re: Windows application on a Mac Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-07-05 09:16 +0200
          Re: Windows application on a Mac Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-07-04 22:36 +0100
          Re: Windows application on a Mac dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-07-05 11:34 +1200
            Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 16:42 -0700
              Re: Windows application on a Mac dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-07-05 12:04 +1200
                Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 17:45 -0700
                  Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-05 00:59 +0000
                  Re: Windows application on a Mac John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-07-05 03:08 +0100
                    Re: Windows application on a Mac dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-07-05 17:57 +1200
                      Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-05 15:26 +0000
                  Re: Windows application on a Mac John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-07-05 03:11 +0100
                Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-05 00:51 +0000
              Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-05 00:49 +0000
            Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-05 00:46 +0000
          Re: Windows application on a Mac Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-07-05 09:14 +0200
        Re: Windows application on a Mac Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-07-05 04:14 +0200
          Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-05 03:07 +0000
    Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 10:08 -0700
      Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 11:55 -0700
        Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 11:57 -0700
          Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 12:12 -0700
            Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-04 19:39 +0000
              Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 12:58 -0700
                Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 13:22 -0700
                  Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-04 22:26 +0000
                Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-04 22:25 +0000
                  Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 19:06 -0700
                    Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 19:45 -0700
                    Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-05 03:05 +0000
                      Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 20:24 -0700
                        Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 20:31 -0700
                          Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-05 03:35 +0000
                            Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 21:58 -0700
                              Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 22:01 -0700
                          Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 21:57 -0700
                            Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 22:01 -0700
                            Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-05 15:50 +0000
                        Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-05 03:32 +0000
                          Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 22:01 -0700
                            Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 22:02 -0700
                            Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-05 15:23 +0000
                              Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-05 08:28 -0700
                                Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-05 09:27 -0700
            Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 12:50 -0700
              Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 13:09 -0700
                Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 13:23 -0700
                  Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 14:01 -0700
                    Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 15:07 -0700
                      Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 15:24 -0700
                        Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-04 22:47 +0000
                          Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 19:02 -0700
                            Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 19:43 -0700
                              Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 20:08 -0700
                                Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 20:12 -0700
                                  Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 21:33 -0700
                                    Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 21:39 -0700
                                      Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 22:08 -0700
                                        Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 22:18 -0700
                            Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-05 03:34 +0000
                              Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 22:02 -0700
                                Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 22:04 -0700
                                Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-05 15:24 +0000
                        Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 15:57 -0700
                          Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 19:03 -0700
                            Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 19:44 -0700
                        Re: Windows application on a Mac John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-07-05 01:49 +0100
                          Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 19:05 -0700
                            Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 19:45 -0700
            Re: Windows application on a Mac Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-07-04 14:32 -0700
              Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 15:01 -0700
                Re: Windows application on a Mac Jim Gibson <jimsgibson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-07 16:46 -0700
    Re: Windows application on a Mac Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-07-04 19:14 +0100
      Re: Windows application on a Mac Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-07-05 10:38 +1200
        Re: Windows application on a Mac Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-07-04 23:43 +0100
          Re: Windows application on a Mac John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-07-05 01:59 +0100
            Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 19:23 -0700
              Re: Windows application on a Mac John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-07-05 03:48 +0100
                Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 20:18 -0700
      Re: Windows application on a Mac Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-07-05 08:56 +0200
        Re: Windows application on a Mac Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-07-05 08:01 +0000
          Re: Windows application on a Mac Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-07-05 14:20 +0200
            Re: Windows application on a Mac Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-07-05 22:55 +0000
    Re: Windows application on a Mac Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-07-04 14:13 -0700
      Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 14:58 -0700
        Re: Windows application on a Mac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-07-04 18:05 -0400
          Re: Windows application on a Mac billy@MIX.COM - 2014-07-06 00:20 +0000
        Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-04 22:41 +0000
          Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 19:26 -0700
        Re: Windows application on a Mac Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-07-04 19:54 -0700
          Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 20:19 -0700
            Re: Windows application on a Mac Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-07-04 21:03 -0700
        Re: Windows application on a Mac Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-07-05 03:44 +0000
          Re: Windows application on a Mac Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-07-04 21:11 -0700
            Re: Windows application on a Mac Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-07-05 05:29 +0000
              Re: Windows application on a Mac John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-07-06 01:39 +0100
                Re: Windows application on a Mac Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-07-06 14:26 +1200
      Re: Windows application on a Mac Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-07-05 10:39 +1200
    Re: Windows application on a Mac Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-07-04 22:10 +0000
      Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 15:26 -0700
        Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-04 22:52 +0000
          Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 19:11 -0700
            Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 19:47 -0700
              Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 20:15 -0700
                Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 20:19 -0700
                  Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 21:36 -0700
                    Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 21:40 -0700
                      Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 22:09 -0700
                        Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 22:18 -0700
        Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 15:59 -0700
          Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-04 19:13 -0700
            Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 19:48 -0700
        Re: Windows application on a Mac Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-07-05 03:51 +0000
    Re: Windows application on a Mac Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-07-05 01:30 -0400
      Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-04 22:32 -0700
        Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-05 06:54 -0700
          Re: Windows application on a Mac Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-07-05 22:15 -0400
            Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-07-05 19:19 -0700
      Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-05 06:43 -0700
    Re: Windows application on a Mac cb <cb@aol.com> - 2014-07-05 12:39 +0200
      Re: Windows application on a Mac Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-07-05 06:53 -0400
        Re: Windows application on a Mac cb <cb@aol.com> - 2014-07-05 14:53 +0200
          Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-05 07:04 -0700
          Re: Windows application on a Mac Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-07-05 22:14 -0400
            Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-05 20:14 -0700
      Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-05 07:00 -0700
    Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-07-05 06:59 -0400
      Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-05 07:06 -0700
        Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-07-06 08:35 -0400
          Re: Windows application on a Mac Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-06 06:54 -0700
            Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-07-06 12:55 -0400
    Re: Windows application on a Mac Mitch Bujard <nonono@schoolfonts.com> - 2014-07-16 17:40 -0400
      Re: Windows application on a Mac Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-07-17 09:39 -0400
      Re: Windows application on a Mac Juan I. Cahis <jiclbchSINBASURA@attglobal.net> - 2014-07-17 09:22 -0500
        Re: Windows application on a Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-17 15:23 +0000
        Re: Windows application on a Mac Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-07-18 09:08 +1200
          Re: Windows application on a Mac Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-07-17 22:41 +0100
          Re: Windows application on a Mac Juan I. Cahis <jiclbchSINBASURA@attglobal.net> - 2014-07-21 11:07 -0400
            Re: Windows application on a Mac Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-07-22 09:47 +1200
              Re: Windows application on a Mac Juan I. Cahis <jiclbchSINBASURA@attglobal.net> - 2014-07-26 11:35 -0400
                Re: Windows application on a Mac Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-07-26 10:17 -0700
                Re: Windows application on a Mac Laszlo Lebrun <lazlo_lebrun@googlemail.com> - 2014-07-27 17:55 +0200

Page 5 of 12 — ← Prev page 1 … 3 4 [5] 6 7 … 12  Next page →


#62017

Frombilly@MIX.COM
Date2014-07-06 03:52 +0000
Message-ID<lpah5m$j0t$1@reader2.panix.com>
In reply to#61995
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> writes:

> As we discussed quite recently in these news groups, CNET does exactly
> that - they repackage installers to add toolbars and ad-ware to
> them. I recommend avoiding CNET at all costs.

Another good reason.  Back in the good old days of Version Tracker,
software developers could list their programs there at no cost, but
Cnet wouldn't do it without being paid.

Then Cnet ate Version Tracker, and in particular ate the very useful
version tracking function.

Some bonus reading -

How Halsey Minor Blew Tech Fortune on Way to Bankruptcy
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-30/cnet-founder-minor-files-for-bankruptcy-after-selling-art.html

Mr Minor also topped the State of California's list of biggest tax
cheats (owing US$7E6+) for some years, although I see he's no longer
on it now.

Billy Y..
-- 
        sub     #'9+1   ,r0             ; convert ascii byte
	add     #9.+1   ,r0             ; to an integer
	bcc     20$                     ; not a number

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#61946

FromPaul Sture <nospam@sture.ch>
Date2014-07-05 09:10 +0200
Message-ID<k0lk8b-hce2.ln1@news.chingola.ch>
In reply to#61750
On 2014-07-04, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> In article <040720141302564348%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
><nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> crossover probably won't work but if it does, it's the cheapest option.
>> a lot of apps don't work with it, but maybe you'll luck out. if you
>> already have it then it might be worth trying.
>
> If/When I get the software, that's what I'll probably try first.
>
>> otherwise, you are aware of the differences between vmware/parallels
>> versus boot camp. you'll need windows for either opion, plus the cost
>> of vmware/parallels if you choose that path.
>
> yes, but that's not enough information for me to decide.

Parallels offers a 10 or 15 (?) day evaluation period (during which it
constantly nags you to buy). VMware offers a much more sensible 30 day
evaluation (without the constant nagging).  Unfortunately VMware jacked
their prices up got V6 which leaves me stubbornly staying at V5.

(note to VMware: I might even buy V6 if you gave me more information than
"Improved for Mavericks" and "contains 50 new functions".  Would it hurt
you so much to tell us what these functions actually are?.

> And, I just realized, I'd have to get an external DVD/CD drive to
> install the software.

FWIW my copy of VMware Fusion 5 came with a DVD *and* a USB stick.

-- 
Big Data is any data that is expensive to manage and hard to extract
value from.                                      -- Michael Franklin

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61971

FromSavageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
Date2014-07-05 07:19 -0700
Message-ID<2014070507194721015-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>
In reply to#61946
On 2014-07-05 07:10:44 +0000, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> said:

> On 2014-07-04, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>> In article <040720141302564348%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
>> <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>>> crossover probably won't work but if it does, it's the cheapest option.
>>> a lot of apps don't work with it, but maybe you'll luck out. if you
>>> already have it then it might be worth trying.
>> 
>> If/When I get the software, that's what I'll probably try first.
>> 
>>> otherwise, you are aware of the differences between vmware/parallels
>>> versus boot camp. you'll need windows for either opion, plus the cost
>>> of vmware/parallels if you choose that path.
>> 
>> yes, but that's not enough information for me to decide.
> 
> Parallels offers a 10 or 15 (?) day evaluation period (during which it
> constantly nags you to buy). VMware offers a much more sensible 30 day
> evaluation (without the constant nagging).  Unfortunately VMware jacked
> their prices up got V6 which leaves me stubbornly staying at V5.
> 
> (note to VMware: I might even buy V6 if you gave me more information than
> "Improved for Mavericks" and "contains 50 new functions".  Would it hurt
> you so much to tell us what these functions actually are?.

For what it is worth, Fusion V4.1.3 runs just fine on Mavericks, even 
with the upgrade nag.

>> And, I just realized, I'd have to get an external DVD/CD drive to
>> install the software.
> 
> FWIW my copy of VMware Fusion 5 came with a DVD *and* a USB stick.

My copy of VMWare Fusion V4.1.3 was a down load, and bought as part of 
a bundle.


-- 
Regards,

Savageduck

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#62040

Fromjamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date2014-07-07 14:52 +1200
Message-ID<1lof4rx.36zbnzcw7532N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to#61750
Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> In article <040720141302564348%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
> <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> 
> > crossover probably won't work but if it does, it's the cheapest option.
> > a lot of apps don't work with it, but maybe you'll luck out. if you
> > already have it then it might be worth trying.
> 
> If/When I get the software, that's what I'll probably try first.
> 
> > otherwise, you are aware of the differences between vmware/parallels
> > versus boot camp. you'll need windows for either opion, plus the cost
> > of vmware/parallels if you choose that path.
> 
> yes, but that's not enough information for me to decide.
> 
> And, I just realized, I'd have to get an external DVD/CD drive to
> install the software.

I've also had a poor experience with CrossOver rarely working well, or
at all for many Windows apps. I've found virtualisation via VMware's
Fusion to be a far better robust solution that nearly always works for
lightweight games and serious apps. For graphics intensive games and the
like with poor performance in a virtual machine, I boot into WinXP using
Boot Camp.

My only real trouble with Boot Camp was the crappy Apple supplied ATI
Drivers for my Radeon 2600 Pro HD under WinXP. They had intermittently
corrupted the graphics, requiring a restart, and had no configuration
utility for setting up additional monitors that for some effing reason
are set to underscan by default! So stupid! Luckily I was able to find
drivers and utility software from ATI directly that worked, using
educated guesswork and many hours of trial and error manually installing
drivers (the driver installers would not work as they complained my
video card was unsupported).

However my problem was a rare one. IME most Boot Camp users have no real
issues to speak of. But I'd still prefer virtualisation when native
speed isn't necessary, as is more often the case on newer Macs than
mine, if only because it's a PITA rebooting into Windows. Fusion is very
seamless when setup right, and quick to startup.

-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#62041

FromYour Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date2014-07-07 16:36 +1200
Message-ID<070720141636478817%YourName@YourISP.com>
In reply to#62040
In article <1lof4rx.36zbnzcw7532N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>, Jamie
Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> > In article <040720141302564348%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
> > <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> > > 
> > > crossover probably won't work but if it does, it's the cheapest option.
> > > a lot of apps don't work with it, but maybe you'll luck out. if you
> > > already have it then it might be worth trying.
> > 
> > If/When I get the software, that's what I'll probably try first.
> > 
> > > otherwise, you are aware of the differences between vmware/parallels
> > > versus boot camp. you'll need windows for either opion, plus the cost
> > > of vmware/parallels if you choose that path.
> > 
> > yes, but that's not enough information for me to decide.
> > 
> > And, I just realized, I'd have to get an external DVD/CD drive to
> > install the software.
> 
> I've also had a poor experience with CrossOver rarely working well, or
> at all for many Windows apps.
<snip>

It's Crossover becomes it makes the users come over all cross at the
(so-called) developers, and WINE stands for Worthless Inefficient
Nonworking Experience.   ;-)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#62042

Fromjamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date2014-07-07 17:25 +1200
Message-ID<1lofc6i.wac8m71d9ufuoN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to#62041
Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> In article <1lof4rx.36zbnzcw7532N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>, Jamie
> Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> > Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> > > In article <040720141302564348%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
> > > <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > crossover probably won't work but if it does, it's the cheapest option.
> > > > a lot of apps don't work with it, but maybe you'll luck out. if you
> > > > already have it then it might be worth trying.
> > > 
> > > If/When I get the software, that's what I'll probably try first.
> > > 
> > > > otherwise, you are aware of the differences between vmware/parallels
> > > > versus boot camp. you'll need windows for either opion, plus the cost
> > > > of vmware/parallels if you choose that path.
> > > 
> > > yes, but that's not enough information for me to decide.
> > > 
> > > And, I just realized, I'd have to get an external DVD/CD drive to
> > > install the software.
> > 
> > I've also had a poor experience with CrossOver rarely working well, or
> > at all for many Windows apps.
> <snip>
> 
> It's Crossover becomes it makes the users come over all cross at the
> (so-called) developers, and WINE stands for Worthless Inefficient
> Nonworking Experience.   ;-)

I refuse to buy WINE-wrappered Windows games from gog.com and the like,
nowadays. I only buy older DOS games from them. DOSBox works. WINE is a
piece of shit for the most part, IME.

Also CrossOver only offers support if you buy their product. By then
it's too late: you're stuck with a shit product that doesn't work, or
the procedure is so arcane and involved to get a game working, one needs
to access third party help; for nearly all the games it says it works
with, on their site.

-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#62053

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2014-07-07 16:22 +0000
Message-ID<slrnlrli9n.2s4b.g.kreme@Amelia.local>
In reply to#62042
Okay, so one time? In band camp? Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> was all, like: 
 --> 	 Mon, 7 Jul 2014 17:25:41 +1200 <1lofc6i.wac8m71d9ufuoN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
> Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

>> In article <1lof4rx.36zbnzcw7532N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>, Jamie
>> Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
>> > Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>> > > In article <040720141302564348%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
>> > > <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> > > > 
>> > > > crossover probably won't work but if it does, it's the cheapest option.
>> > > > a lot of apps don't work with it, but maybe you'll luck out. if you
>> > > > already have it then it might be worth trying.
>> > > 
>> > > If/When I get the software, that's what I'll probably try first.
>> > > 
>> > > > otherwise, you are aware of the differences between vmware/parallels
>> > > > versus boot camp. you'll need windows for either opion, plus the cost
>> > > > of vmware/parallels if you choose that path.
>> > > 
>> > > yes, but that's not enough information for me to decide.
>> > > 
>> > > And, I just realized, I'd have to get an external DVD/CD drive to
>> > > install the software.
>> > 
>> > I've also had a poor experience with CrossOver rarely working well, or
>> > at all for many Windows apps.
>> <snip>
>> 
>> It's Crossover becomes it makes the users come over all cross at the
>> (so-called) developers, and WINE stands for Worthless Inefficient
>> Nonworking Experience.   ;-)

> I refuse to buy WINE-wrappered Windows games from gog.com and the like,
> nowadays. I only buy older DOS games from them. DOSBox works. WINE is a
> piece of shit for the most part, IME.

All the GOG.gom games I have work perfectly well under 10.9 and 10.10.

I played a bit of Ultima IV, but I'd forgotten the recipes for the
spells and it took me too long to suss out the runes, so I didn't play
it that much. It was still fun to go exploring around Britannia again.

-- 
Cogito cogito, ergo cogito sum, cogito

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61758

FromJohn <Man@the.keyboard>
Date2014-07-04 20:38 +0100
Message-ID<bc0er99dloo3ado77vjr6lpujj4bq4hav0@4ax.com>
In reply to#61743
On Fri, 04 Jul 2014 13:02:56 -0400, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article <040720140949213663%michelle@michelle.org>, Michelle Steiner
><michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>
>> I've pretty much been ignoring this topic, but now I have a strong
>> desire to run an application (BridgeMaster 2000, if you're curious)
>> that runs only on Windows.
>> 
>> What would be my best option:  Boot Camp, Parallels, VMware Fusion,
>> Crossover?
>> 
>> I know that the biggest disadvantage for running Boot Camp is that I'd
>> have to reboot the computer every time I want to switch between OSes. 
>> And both Parallels and Fusion cost extra money.  I have Crossover
>> because it came in one of those bundles that are sometimes offered, so
>> price isn't a problem with it, but I'm all that convinced that it would
>> be the best way to go.
>
>crossover probably won't work but if it does, it's the cheapest option.
>a lot of apps don't work with it, but maybe you'll luck out. if you
>already have it then it might be worth trying.

 I have never had any issue with getting something, from Win3 to Win7
stuff, running under CrossOver. 
 Had I done I would have gone to their fora which are quite good
sources of quite reliable help. 
 And they do, constantly, fix issues others have with - for example -
huge database programs, games and other stuff. 
 No, I don't work there or sell the program. I just find it easier to
use than WINE. 

>
>otherwise, you are aware of the differences between vmware/parallels
>versus boot camp. you'll need windows for either opion, plus the cost
>of vmware/parallels if you choose that path.

 And that is the one, true, most excellent advantage of CrossOver, you
don't need to buy a Win licence at astronomical expense and you don't
need to install Windows.
 WINE is the same but I found that more difficult to use.
 CrossOver is basically WINE for dummies.
 If Michele is smart enough and experienced enough to use WINE that
might suit her more. I was neither. 
                                        J.                            
                                  

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61765

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2014-07-04 15:50 -0400
Message-ID<040720141550508795%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#61758
In article <bc0er99dloo3ado77vjr6lpujj4bq4hav0@4ax.com>, John
<Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

> >> I've pretty much been ignoring this topic, but now I have a strong
> >> desire to run an application (BridgeMaster 2000, if you're curious)
> >> that runs only on Windows.
> >> 
> >> What would be my best option:  Boot Camp, Parallels, VMware Fusion,
> >> Crossover?
> >> 
> >> I know that the biggest disadvantage for running Boot Camp is that I'd
> >> have to reboot the computer every time I want to switch between OSes. 
> >> And both Parallels and Fusion cost extra money.  I have Crossover
> >> because it came in one of those bundles that are sometimes offered, so
> >> price isn't a problem with it, but I'm all that convinced that it would
> >> be the best way to go.
> >
> >crossover probably won't work but if it does, it's the cheapest option.
> >a lot of apps don't work with it, but maybe you'll luck out. if you
> >already have it then it might be worth trying.
> 
>  I have never had any issue with getting something, from Win3 to Win7
> stuff, running under CrossOver. 

then you didn't try very many apps.

photoshop, for instance, has a *lot* of problems. there's a shitload of
other apps that have problems.

>  Had I done I would have gone to their fora which are quite good
> sources of quite reliable help. 
>  And they do, constantly, fix issues others have with - for example -
> huge database programs, games and other stuff. 

which means it's a buggy hack.

>  No, I don't work there or sell the program. I just find it easier to
> use than WINE. 

it's wine under the hood.

> >otherwise, you are aware of the differences between vmware/parallels
> >versus boot camp. you'll need windows for either opion, plus the cost
> >of vmware/parallels if you choose that path.
> 
>  And that is the one, true, most excellent advantage of CrossOver, you
> don't need to buy a Win licence at astronomical expense and you don't
> need to install Windows.

astronomical expense?

windows is hardly expensive.

>  WINE is the same but I found that more difficult to use.
>  CrossOver is basically WINE for dummies.
>  If Michele is smart enough and experienced enough to use WINE that
> might suit her more. I was neither. 

if crossover works, then she's in luck. however, there's a very good
chance it won't.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61817

FromJohn <Man@the.keyboard>
Date2014-07-05 01:22 +0100
Message-ID<ctger95t3c8bona7k6qbi5i86fe6av4qm4@4ax.com>
In reply to#61765
On Fri, 04 Jul 2014 15:50:50 -0400, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article <bc0er99dloo3ado77vjr6lpujj4bq4hav0@4ax.com>, John
><Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>
>> >> I've pretty much been ignoring this topic, but now I have a strong
>> >> desire to run an application (BridgeMaster 2000, if you're curious)
>> >> that runs only on Windows.
>> >> 
>> >> What would be my best option:  Boot Camp, Parallels, VMware Fusion,
>> >> Crossover?
>> >> 
>> >> I know that the biggest disadvantage for running Boot Camp is that I'd
>> >> have to reboot the computer every time I want to switch between OSes. 
>> >> And both Parallels and Fusion cost extra money.  I have Crossover
>> >> because it came in one of those bundles that are sometimes offered, so
>> >> price isn't a problem with it, but I'm all that convinced that it would
>> >> be the best way to go.
>> >
>> >crossover probably won't work but if it does, it's the cheapest option.
>> >a lot of apps don't work with it, but maybe you'll luck out. if you
>> >already have it then it might be worth trying.
>> 
>>  I have never had any issue with getting something, from Win3 to Win7
>> stuff, running under CrossOver. 
>
>then you didn't try very many apps.
>
>photoshop, for instance, has a *lot* of problems. there's a shitload of
>other apps that have problems.
>
>>  Had I done I would have gone to their fora which are quite good
>> sources of quite reliable help. 
>>  And they do, constantly, fix issues others have with - for example -
>> huge database programs, games and other stuff. 
>
>which means it's a buggy hack.

 No, it's a good program but it does have limitations. Have you never
found a video file VLC won't play? Ever waited a while and found that
an updated version of VLC plays the file? Does that make VLC "a buggy
hack"?
 The Codeweaver folk do what they can but Mac OSX and Windows are
basically incompatible OSes. Getting *any* Windows stuff to run under
OSX is good work. Getting all of it to would take something like
making OSX into Windows. 

>
>>  No, I don't work there or sell the program. I just find it easier to
>> use than WINE. 
>
>it's wine under the hood.

 Obviously. What I should have typed is: "I just find it easier to use
than a bare WINE implementation without CrossOver's GUI making it
simple for us."
 Happier, now? 

>
>> >otherwise, you are aware of the differences between vmware/parallels
>> >versus boot camp. you'll need windows for either opion, plus the cost
>> >of vmware/parallels if you choose that path.
>> 
>>  And that is the one, true, most excellent advantage of CrossOver, you
>> don't need to buy a Win licence at astronomical expense and you don't
>> need to install Windows.
>
>astronomical expense?
>
>windows is hardly expensive.

 Depends on your budget, I suppose. Mr. Gates can probably afford a
licence for every Mac in his houses but there are people who find a
full licence to be a tad pricey.
 Me, for one. 

>
>>  WINE is the same but I found that more difficult to use.
>>  CrossOver is basically WINE for dummies.
>>  If Michele is smart enough and experienced enough to use WINE that
>> might suit her more. I was neither. 
>
>if crossover works, then she's in luck. however, there's a very good
>chance it won't.

 Why are you so down on it? It's only software, not a threat to your
religion or manhood.
                              J. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61869

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2014-07-04 23:07 -0400
Message-ID<040720142307401360%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#61817
In article <ctger95t3c8bona7k6qbi5i86fe6av4qm4@4ax.com>, John
<Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

> >>  Had I done I would have gone to their fora which are quite good
> >> sources of quite reliable help. 
> >>  And they do, constantly, fix issues others have with - for example -
> >> huge database programs, games and other stuff. 
> >
> >which means it's a buggy hack.
> 
>  No, it's a good program but it does have limitations. 

a lot of limitations and it's generally more hassle than it's worth. 

>  Have you never
> found a video file VLC won't play?

many times.

vlc is another buggy app and crashes often, which is why i rarely use
it. 

what's your point?

> Ever waited a while and found that
> an updated version of VLC plays the file? Does that make VLC "a buggy
> hack"?

no. 

the last time i upgraded vlc, the upgrade was worse than the version it
replaced, so i reverted it. 

>  The Codeweaver folk do what they can but Mac OSX and Windows are
> basically incompatible OSes. Getting *any* Windows stuff to run under
> OSX is good work. Getting all of it to would take something like
> making OSX into Windows. 

they're wrapping wine, which is a hack. 

> >>  No, I don't work there or sell the program. I just find it easier to
> >> use than WINE. 
> >
> >it's wine under the hood.
> 
>  Obviously. What I should have typed is: "I just find it easier to use
> than a bare WINE implementation without CrossOver's GUI making it
> simple for us."
>  Happier, now? 

crossover may be easier to use than wine but it's still a buggy mess
and most of the time it doesn't work all that well.

the fact that there's a compatibility list is proof.

> >> >otherwise, you are aware of the differences between vmware/parallels
> >> >versus boot camp. you'll need windows for either opion, plus the cost
> >> >of vmware/parallels if you choose that path.
> >> 
> >>  And that is the one, true, most excellent advantage of CrossOver, you
> >> don't need to buy a Win licence at astronomical expense and you don't
> >> need to install Windows.
> >
> >astronomical expense?
> >
> >windows is hardly expensive.
> 
>  Depends on your budget, I suppose. Mr. Gates can probably afford a
> licence for every Mac in his houses but there are people who find a
> full licence to be a tad pricey.
>  Me, for one. 

under $100 is a tad pricy?

how the hell do you afford the computer?

or do you find it on some site?

> >>  WINE is the same but I found that more difficult to use.
> >>  CrossOver is basically WINE for dummies.
> >>  If Michele is smart enough and experienced enough to use WINE that
> >> might suit her more. I was neither. 
> >
> >if crossover works, then she's in luck. however, there's a very good
> >chance it won't.
> 
>  Why are you so down on it? It's only software, not a threat to your
> religion or manhood.

because it's buggy.

as i said, if it works, that's great, but chances are it won't.

many people simply do not want the hassles.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61744

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2014-07-04 17:05 +0000
Message-ID<c1o56pFoii9U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#61742
On 2014-07-04, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> I've pretty much been ignoring this topic, but now I have a strong
> desire to run an application (BridgeMaster 2000, if you're curious)
> that runs only on Windows.
>
> What would be my best option:  Boot Camp, Parallels, VMware Fusion,
> Crossover?
>
> I know that the biggest disadvantage for running Boot Camp is that I'd
> have to reboot the computer every time I want to switch between OSes. 
> And both Parallels and Fusion cost extra money.  I have Crossover
> because it came in one of those bundles that are sometimes offered, so
> price isn't a problem with it, but I'm all that convinced that it would
> be the best way to go.

I've never found CrossOver's robustness to be satisfactory for my
needs. Every time I have tried it, it's been buggy as hell. Admittedly,
the last time I tried it was a few years ago - perhaps things have
changed (I doubt it though).

Between VMware Fusion and Parallels Desktop, it's a toss-up. One tends
to leap frog the other in terms of features and performance every now
and then, but in general either one performs admirably, and both offer
similar functionality - some might say it's a matter of taste. You
didn't mention VirtualBox, which is free. And with any of the
virtualization solutions (excluding CrossOver), you'll need to purchase
or obtain a copy of Windows to run.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61746

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2014-07-04 17:17 +0000
Message-ID<c1o5scFoii9U3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#61744
On 2014-07-04, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2014-07-04, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>> I've pretty much been ignoring this topic, but now I have a strong
>> desire to run an application (BridgeMaster 2000, if you're curious)
>> that runs only on Windows.
>>
>> What would be my best option:  Boot Camp, Parallels, VMware Fusion,
>> Crossover?
>>
>> I know that the biggest disadvantage for running Boot Camp is that I'd
>> have to reboot the computer every time I want to switch between OSes. 
>> And both Parallels and Fusion cost extra money.  I have Crossover
>> because it came in one of those bundles that are sometimes offered, so
>> price isn't a problem with it, but I'm all that convinced that it would
>> be the best way to go.
>
> I've never found CrossOver's robustness to be satisfactory for my
> needs. Every time I have tried it, it's been buggy as hell. Admittedly,
> the last time I tried it was a few years ago - perhaps things have
> changed (I doubt it though).
>
> Between VMware Fusion and Parallels Desktop, it's a toss-up. One tends
> to leap frog the other in terms of features and performance every now
> and then, but in general either one performs admirably, and both offer
> similar functionality - some might say it's a matter of taste. You
> didn't mention VirtualBox, which is free. And with any of the
> virtualization solutions (excluding CrossOver), you'll need to purchase
> or obtain a copy of Windows to run.

One thing I forgot to mention:

With either VMware Fusion or Parallels Desktop (possibly VirtualBox too,
though I haven't checked), it is possible to point the virtual machine
to an existing Boot Camp volume. This means you can install Boot Camp,
then install the VM, point it to the Boot Camp drive, and run Windows
from there without having to reboot. The added benefit of doing things
this way is if your Boot Camp volume is on a separate physical device
than your Mac OS X startup volume, performance of disk writes in the
Windows guest OS is much faster, since hard drive access is no longer
shared between Mac OS X and Windows.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61751

FromMichelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date2014-07-04 11:49 -0700
Message-ID<040720141149366564%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to#61746
In article <c1o5scFoii9U3@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
<jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> With either VMware Fusion or Parallels Desktop (possibly VirtualBox too,
> though I haven't checked), it is possible to point the virtual machine
> to an existing Boot Camp volume. This means you can install Boot Camp,
> then install the VM, point it to the Boot Camp drive, and run Windows
> from there without having to reboot. The added benefit of doing things
> this way is if your Boot Camp volume is on a separate physical device
> than your Mac OS X startup volume, performance of disk writes in the
> Windows guest OS is much faster, since hard drive access is no longer
> shared between Mac OS X and Windows.

That's interesting.  I would either have to partition my Time Machine
drive (it's 3TB, so there's plenty of room on it) or buy another
external drive..

BTW, I've not heard about Virtual Box.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61753

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2014-07-04 18:55 +0000
Message-ID<c1obllFqq51U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#61751
On 2014-07-04, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> In article <c1o5scFoii9U3@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
><jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> With either VMware Fusion or Parallels Desktop (possibly VirtualBox too,
>> though I haven't checked), it is possible to point the virtual machine
>> to an existing Boot Camp volume. This means you can install Boot Camp,
>> then install the VM, point it to the Boot Camp drive, and run Windows
>> from there without having to reboot. The added benefit of doing things
>> this way is if your Boot Camp volume is on a separate physical device
>> than your Mac OS X startup volume, performance of disk writes in the
>> Windows guest OS is much faster, since hard drive access is no longer
>> shared between Mac OS X and Windows.
>
> That's interesting.  I would either have to partition my Time Machine
> drive (it's 3TB, so there's plenty of room on it) or buy another
> external drive..

The performance boost is worth the trouble, IMO. 

> BTW, I've not heard about Virtual Box.

It's a free option, and won't have all the bells and whistles of the
other two.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61948

FromPaul Sture <nospam@sture.ch>
Date2014-07-05 09:16 +0200
Message-ID<jblk8b-hce2.ln1@news.chingola.ch>
In reply to#61753
On 2014-07-04, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2014-07-04, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>> In article <c1o5scFoii9U3@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
>><jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>>> With either VMware Fusion or Parallels Desktop (possibly VirtualBox too,
>>> though I haven't checked), it is possible to point the virtual machine
>>> to an existing Boot Camp volume. This means you can install Boot Camp,
>>> then install the VM, point it to the Boot Camp drive, and run Windows
>>> from there without having to reboot. The added benefit of doing things
>>> this way is if your Boot Camp volume is on a separate physical device
>>> than your Mac OS X startup volume, performance of disk writes in the
>>> Windows guest OS is much faster, since hard drive access is no longer
>>> shared between Mac OS X and Windows.
>>
>> That's interesting.  I would either have to partition my Time Machine
>> drive (it's 3TB, so there's plenty of room on it) or buy another
>> external drive..
>
> The performance boost is worth the trouble, IMO. 
>
>> BTW, I've not heard about Virtual Box.
>
> It's a free option, and won't have all the bells and whistles of the
> other two.

VirtualBox does have regular updates and the Mac version has got a lot
better since they first introduced it.  OTOH the frequency of the updates
can drive you nuts, especially if you are running it on more than one
system.

-- 
Big Data is any data that is expensive to manage and hard to extract
value from.                                      -- Michael Franklin

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61783

FromTim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net>
Date2014-07-04 22:36 +0100
Message-ID<040720142236226641%timstreater@greenbee.net>
In reply to#61751
In article <040720141149366564%michelle@michelle.org>, Michelle Steiner
<michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> In article <c1o5scFoii9U3@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
> <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> 
> > With either VMware Fusion or Parallels Desktop (possibly VirtualBox too,
> > though I haven't checked), it is possible to point the virtual machine
> > to an existing Boot Camp volume. This means you can install Boot Camp,
> > then install the VM, point it to the Boot Camp drive, and run Windows
> > from there without having to reboot. The added benefit of doing things
> > this way is if your Boot Camp volume is on a separate physical device
> > than your Mac OS X startup volume, performance of disk writes in the
> > Windows guest OS is much faster, since hard drive access is no longer
> > shared between Mac OS X and Windows.
> 
> That's interesting.  I would either have to partition my Time Machine
> drive (it's 3TB, so there's plenty of room on it) or buy another
> external drive..
> 
> BTW, I've not heard about Virtual Box.

As I said, I run Win7 under it no problems. I got it so I can run
Publisher.

-- 
"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armour to
 lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores 
 the fact that it was he who, by peddling second-rate technology, led them
 into it in the first place."                             - Douglas Adams

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61812

Fromdempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson)
Date2014-07-05 11:34 +1200
Message-ID<1lob5c3.10knhp19ef4aaN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>
In reply to#61751
Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> In article <c1o5scFoii9U3@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
> <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> 
> > With either VMware Fusion or Parallels Desktop (possibly VirtualBox too,
> > though I haven't checked), it is possible to point the virtual machine
> > to an existing Boot Camp volume. This means you can install Boot Camp,
> > then install the VM, point it to the Boot Camp drive, and run Windows
> > from there without having to reboot. The added benefit of doing things
> > this way is if your Boot Camp volume is on a separate physical device
> > than your Mac OS X startup volume, performance of disk writes in the
> > Windows guest OS is much faster, since hard drive access is no longer
> > shared between Mac OS X and Windows.
> 
> That's interesting.  I would either have to partition my Time Machine
> drive (it's 3TB, so there's plenty of room on it) or buy another
> external drive..

If you were thinking of partitioning your Time Machine drive to run Boot
Camp, that isn't a good choice. Windows doesn't want to be installed on
or booted from external drives (there are probably hacks to work around
that). As a result, Boot Camp Assistant won't work on an external drive
(because Windows doesn't support that configuration), therefore you
would need to do the partitioning, Windows installation and Apple driver
installation without assistance.

A VM-based solution with a virtual hard drive is more flexible, since
you can locate the virtual hard drive anywhere convenient within the Mac
file system.

> BTW, I've not heard about Virtual Box.

When my need to run a virtual machine on an Intel Mac first arose (I had
previously used Virtual PC on PowerPC Macs), I briefly tried an earlier
version of Parallels Desktop (I got at least two of them via software
bundles) but there were some technical details I didn't like (probably
rectified in more recent versions), so I tried VMware Fusion, preferred
it, and stuck with it through subsequent upgrades.

I currently have VMware Fusion 6.0.4 running on OS X 10.9.4, with
virtual machines for Windows XP Pro, Windows 7 Pro, several versions of
OS X, and even one running MS-DOS for some very old software (which was
harder to get working).

I haven't tried VirtualBox as I already had VMware Fusion by the time I
found out that VB existed.

My understanding is that VirtualBox is not as polished or as well
integrated with the host Mac platorm as either Parallels Desktop or
VMware Fusion.

The comparisons between Parallels and VMware vary, with Parallels
generally having an edge in some areas (such as 3D graphics support),
while VMware has an edge in other areas (such as USB device support). I
have the impression that VMware tends to be more stable.

From helping other people using Parallels, it seems they are more
agressive than VMware about forcing paid upgrades to run properly on new
OS X versions.

I was able to keep using VMware Fusion 4 while I was on OS X 10.6, 10.7
and 10.8, then upgraded to version 6 to support OS X 10.9. According to
discussion on the VMware forums, the latest 6.0.4 update allows VMware
Fusion to run on developer previews of Yosemite, though it wouldn't
surprise me if a later (paid) upgrade turns out to "better" at running
on Yosemite.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61813

FromAlan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net>
Date2014-07-04 16:42 -0700
Message-ID<lp7e4k$mho$1@news.datemas.de>
In reply to#61812
On 2014-07-04 23:34:54 +0000, David Empson said:

> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> 
>> In article <c1o5scFoii9U3@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
>> <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> With either VMware Fusion or Parallels Desktop (possibly VirtualBox too,
>>> though I haven't checked), it is possible to point the virtual machine
>>> to an existing Boot Camp volume. This means you can install Boot Camp,
>>> then install the VM, point it to the Boot Camp drive, and run Windows
>>> from there without having to reboot. The added benefit of doing things
>>> this way is if your Boot Camp volume is on a separate physical device
>>> than your Mac OS X startup volume, performance of disk writes in the
>>> Windows guest OS is much faster, since hard drive access is no longer
>>> shared between Mac OS X and Windows.
>> 
>> That's interesting.  I would either have to partition my Time Machine
>> drive (it's 3TB, so there's plenty of room on it) or buy another
>> external drive..
> 
> If you were thinking of partitioning your Time Machine drive to run Boot
> Camp, that isn't a good choice. Windows doesn't want to be installed on
> or booted from external drives (there are probably hacks to work around
> that). As a result, Boot Camp Assistant won't work on an external drive
> (because Windows doesn't support that configuration), therefore you
> would need to do the partitioning, Windows installation and Apple driver
> installation without assistance.

More than that, Windows won't boot from a HFS+ Extended volume...

...which is normally a requirement for a Time Machine backup volume.

> 
> A VM-based solution with a virtual hard drive is more flexible, since
> you can locate the virtual hard drive anywhere convenient within the Mac
> file system.
> 
>> BTW, I've not heard about Virtual Box.
> 
> When my need to run a virtual machine on an Intel Mac first arose (I had
> previously used Virtual PC on PowerPC Macs), I briefly tried an earlier
> version of Parallels Desktop (I got at least two of them via software
> bundles) but there were some technical details I didn't like (probably
> rectified in more recent versions), so I tried VMware Fusion, preferred
> it, and stuck with it through subsequent upgrades.
> 
> I currently have VMware Fusion 6.0.4 running on OS X 10.9.4, with
> virtual machines for Windows XP Pro, Windows 7 Pro, several versions of
> OS X, and even one running MS-DOS for some very old software (which was
> harder to get working).
> 
> I haven't tried VirtualBox as I already had VMware Fusion by the time I
> found out that VB existed.
> 
> My understanding is that VirtualBox is not as polished or as well
> integrated with the host Mac platorm as either Parallels Desktop or
> VMware Fusion.
> 
> The comparisons between Parallels and VMware vary, with Parallels
> generally having an edge in some areas (such as 3D graphics support),
> while VMware has an edge in other areas (such as USB device support). I
> have the impression that VMware tends to be more stable.
> 
> From helping other people using Parallels, it seems they are more
> agressive than VMware about forcing paid upgrades to run properly on new
> OS X versions.
> 
> I was able to keep using VMware Fusion 4 while I was on OS X 10.6, 10.7
> and 10.8, then upgraded to version 6 to support OS X 10.9. According to
> discussion on the VMware forums, the latest 6.0.4 update allows VMware
> Fusion to run on developer previews of Yosemite, though it wouldn't
> surprise me if a later (paid) upgrade turns out to "better" at running
> on Yosemite.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61815

Fromdempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson)
Date2014-07-05 12:04 +1200
Message-ID<1lob7re.1kht5v011cn5xaN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>
In reply to#61813
Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> wrote:

> On 2014-07-04 23:34:54 +0000, David Empson said:
> 
> > Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> > 
> >> In article <c1o5scFoii9U3@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
> >> <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> With either VMware Fusion or Parallels Desktop (possibly VirtualBox too,
> >>> though I haven't checked), it is possible to point the virtual machine
> >>> to an existing Boot Camp volume. This means you can install Boot Camp,
> >>> then install the VM, point it to the Boot Camp drive, and run Windows
> >>> from there without having to reboot. The added benefit of doing things
> >>> this way is if your Boot Camp volume is on a separate physical device
> >>> than your Mac OS X startup volume, performance of disk writes in the
> >>> Windows guest OS is much faster, since hard drive access is no longer
> >>> shared between Mac OS X and Windows.
> >> 
> >> That's interesting.  I would either have to partition my Time Machine
> >> drive (it's 3TB, so there's plenty of room on it) or buy another
> >> external drive..
> > 
> > If you were thinking of partitioning your Time Machine drive to run Boot
> > Camp, that isn't a good choice. Windows doesn't want to be installed on
> > or booted from external drives (there are probably hacks to work around
> > that). As a result, Boot Camp Assistant won't work on an external drive
> > (because Windows doesn't support that configuration), therefore you
> > would need to do the partitioning, Windows installation and Apple driver
> > installation without assistance.
> 
> More than that, Windows won't boot from a HFS+ Extended volume...
> 
> ...which is normally a requirement for a Time Machine backup volume.

You are mixing up two concepts. Mac OS Extended (HFS+) is a file system,
which is required on the volume (partition) used by Time Machine
partition. That has nothing to do with the file system used on other
partitions on the same drive.

Typically the drive would be using the GUID Partition Table scheme,
which allows a mixture of Mac-specific systems (e.g. Mac OS Extended)
and Windows-specific file systems (e.g. FAT32, ExFAT and NTFS). GUID
Partition Table is able to support a fake Master Boot Record to allow
Windows to boot from the drive (as long as the Windows partition is one
of the first four).

The problem is that it still wouldn't work, because Windows doesn't want
to boot from an external drive connected via USB or similar. (I don't
know offhand if it would mind booting from eSATA via a PCI Express card,
or a SATA drive connected via Thunderbolt, both of which might appear to
be sufficiently "internal".)

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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