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Kids react to old computers

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  Kids react to old computers Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-05-26 09:55 -0700
    Re: Kids react to old computers Michael Eyd <invalid@eyd.de> - 2014-05-26 19:25 +0200
    Re: Kids react to old computers Calum <com.gmail@nospam.scottishwildcat> - 2014-05-26 19:02 +0100
      Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-05-27 08:53 +1200
        Re: Kids react to old computers Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-05-26 13:59 -0700
          Re: Kids react to old computers Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-05-27 01:18 -0700
        Re: Kids react to old computers jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2014-05-28 13:53 +1200
          Re: Kids react to old computers Michael Eyd <invalid@eyd.de> - 2014-05-28 08:30 +0200
            Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-05-28 19:01 +1200
            Re: Kids react to old computers jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2014-05-28 19:34 +1200
              Re: Kids react to old computers Michael Eyd <invalid@eyd.de> - 2014-05-28 10:06 +0200
                Re: Kids react to old computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-05-28 09:06 +0000
                  Re: Kids react to old computers Michael Eyd <invalid@eyd.de> - 2014-05-28 12:30 +0200
              Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-05-29 08:58 +1200
                Re: Kids react to old computers Michael Eyd <invalid@eyd.de> - 2014-06-03 16:59 +0200
                  Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-06-04 09:24 +1200
                    Re: Kids react to old computers Michael Eyd <invalid@eyd.de> - 2014-06-04 08:50 +0200
                      Re: Kids react to old computers David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2014-06-04 08:11 +0100
                      Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-06-04 19:19 +1200
                        Re: Kids react to old computers Michael Eyd <invalid@eyd.de> - 2014-06-04 14:39 +0200
                          Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-06-05 09:33 +1200
                            Re: Kids react to old computers Michael Eyd <invalid@eyd.de> - 2014-06-05 09:05 +0200
                Re: Kids react to old computers Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2014-07-07 09:06 -0400
                  Re: Kids react to old computers Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-07-07 14:04 -0700
                    Re: Kids react to old computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-07-08 00:17 +0000
                      Re: Kids react to old computers Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> - 2014-07-08 14:36 -0600
                        Re: Kids react to old computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-07-09 01:12 +0000
                          Re: Kids react to old computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-07-08 21:22 -0400
                            Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-07-09 13:40 +1200
                              Re: Kids react to old computers Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> - 2014-07-09 15:13 -0600
                                Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-07-10 09:34 +1200
                            Re: Kids react to old computers Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> - 2014-07-09 08:03 -0600
                              Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-07-10 09:18 +1200
                        Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-07-09 13:42 +1200
                    Re: Kids react to old computers Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2014-07-07 22:43 -0400
                  Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-07-08 09:17 +1200
                    Re: Kids react to old computers Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2014-07-07 22:44 -0400
                      Re: Kids react to old computers "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-07-08 13:59 +1000
                      Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-07-08 16:10 +1200
    Re: Kids react to old computers Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2014-05-26 19:05 +0100
      Re: Kids react to old computers Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-05-26 13:53 -0700
        Re: Kids react to old computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-05-26 17:23 -0400
          Re: Kids react to old computers Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-05-26 18:09 -0700
            Re: Kids react to old computers Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-05-27 01:19 -0700
        Re: Kids react to old computers Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2014-05-26 22:23 +0100
          Re: Kids react to old computers bknight@conramp.net - 2014-05-26 16:48 -0500
            Re: Kids react to old computers Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-26 15:10 -0700
          Re: Kids react to old computers dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2014-05-27 08:43 +1000
          Re: Kids react to old computers Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-05-26 18:08 -0700
            Re: Kids react to old computers Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2014-05-27 13:31 +0100
          Re: Kids react to old computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-05-27 05:14 +0000
          Re: Kids react to old computers "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2014-05-27 17:04 -0400
            Re: Kids react to old computers Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-27 15:38 -0700
            Re: Kids react to old computers Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2014-05-27 23:58 +0100
    Re: Kids react to old computers Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-26 12:14 -0700
      Re: Kids react to old computers Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-05-26 13:49 -0700
        Re: Kids react to old computers Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-26 14:12 -0700
        Re: Kids react to old computers Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-05-26 17:57 -0700
          Re: Kids react to old computers Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-05-26 18:07 -0700
            Re: Kids react to old computers Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-26 18:39 -0700
              Re: Kids react to old computers Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-05-26 20:20 -0700
            Re: Kids react to old computers Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2014-07-07 22:23 -0400
              Re: Kids react to old computers Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-07-07 20:13 -0700
              Re: Kids react to old computers Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-07-07 20:31 -0700
                Re: Kids react to old computers "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2014-07-14 17:45 -0400
                  Re: Kids react to old computers Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-15 10:19 -0700
      Re: Kids react to old computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 18:19 -0400
        Re: Kids react to old computers Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-26 17:24 -0700
          Re: Kids react to old computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-05-26 22:16 -0400
            Re: Kids react to old computers Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-05-27 08:41 +0100
          Re: Kids react to old computers TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft@me.com> - 2014-05-26 21:48 -0500
        Re: Kids react to old computers mortman <mortn@comcast.net> - 2014-05-26 21:12 -0400
        Re: Kids react to old computers Recliner <recliner2-news@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-26 21:00 -0500
          Re: Kids react to old computers Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-26 19:35 -0700
          Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-05-27 16:08 +1200
            Re: Kids react to old computers Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-05-26 22:00 -0700
            Re: Kids react to old computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-05-27 18:06 -0400
              Re: Kids react to old computers Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-05-27 18:16 -0700
          Re: Kids react to old computers erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-05-27 10:22 -0500
            Re: Kids react to old computers Harry Mudd <Agent001@Section-31.org> - 2014-06-04 22:48 -0400
          Re: Kids react to old computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-27 12:39 -0400
            Re: Kids react to old computers Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-05-27 16:13 -0400
              Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-05-28 09:02 +1200
                Re: Kids react to old computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-05-27 18:15 -0400
                  Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-05-28 17:10 +1200
                    Re: Kids react to old computers Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2014-05-28 15:44 +0000
                      Re: Kids react to old computers Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-05-31 07:47 -0700
                Re: Kids react to old computers Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-05-28 00:41 -0400
                  Re: Kids react to old computers Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-05-27 21:50 -0700
                  Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-05-28 18:11 +1200
      Re: Kids react to old computers erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-05-27 10:20 -0500
    Re: Kids react to old computers Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-05-27 01:17 -0700
    Re: Kids react to old computers erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-05-27 10:18 -0500
      Re: Kids react to old computers Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-05-27 09:17 -0700
      Re: Kids react to old computers Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-05-27 09:36 -0700
        Re: Kids react to old computers Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-05-27 09:47 -0700
          Re: Kids react to old computers Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-05-27 12:27 -0700
    Re: Kids react to old computers Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-05-27 16:40 -0400
      Re: Kids react to old computers Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-05-28 00:25 -0400
        Re: Kids react to old computers Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-05-31 11:12 -0400
          Re: Kids react to old computers Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2014-06-01 14:45 +0000
            Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-06-02 09:24 +1200
              Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-06-02 14:45 +1200
    Re: Kids react to old computers Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com> - 2014-06-01 19:42 +0200
      Re: Kids react to old computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-01 14:01 -0400
        Re: Kids react to old computers Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com> - 2014-06-02 09:01 +0200
          Re: Kids react to old computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-02 11:29 -0400
            Re: Kids react to old computers Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com> - 2014-06-06 06:14 +0200
              Re: Kids react to old computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-06 01:33 -0400
                Re: Kids react to old computers Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-05 23:22 -0700
                  Re: Kids react to old computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-06 02:36 -0400
                    Re: Kids react to old computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-06 02:41 -0400
                      Re: Kids react to old computers Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 13:21 +0200
                        Re: Kids react to old computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-07 10:13 -0400
                    Re: Kids react to old computers Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-06 00:00 -0700
                    Re: Kids react to old computers Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 13:20 +0200
                      Re: Kids react to old computers "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-06-08 11:52 +1000
                        Re: Kids react to old computers Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-08 04:08 +0000
                          Re: Kids react to old computers "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-06-09 07:48 +1000
                        Re: Kids react to old computers Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-07 23:43 -0700
                          Re: Kids react to old computers "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-06-08 19:36 +1000
                            Re: Kids react to old computers Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-08 03:09 -0700
                              Re: Kids react to old computers "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-06-09 07:15 +1000
                      Re: Kids react to old computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-07 10:13 -0400
                Re: Kids react to old computers Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 13:18 +0200
                  Re: Kids react to old computers Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-06-07 18:03 +0100
                    Re: Kids react to old computers News <News@Group.Post> - 2014-06-07 14:08 -0400
                  Re: Kids react to old computers "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-06-08 11:51 +1000
                  Re: Kids react to old computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-07 13:46 -0400
              Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-06-06 18:36 +1200
        Re: Kids react to old computers "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 13:51 +1000
      Re: Kids react to old computers Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-06-01 21:54 -0400
    Re: Kids react to old computers Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2014-07-07 09:05 -0400
      Re: Kids react to old computers Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-07-09 06:58 -0700
        Re: Kids react to old computers Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-07-09 07:01 -0700
          Re: Kids react to old computers Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-07-09 07:02 -0700
            Re: Kids react to old computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-07-09 12:24 -0400
            Re: Kids react to old computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-07-09 18:00 +0000
            Re: Kids react to old computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-07-09 16:01 -0400
              Re: Kids react to old computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-07-09 16:21 -0400
              Re: Kids react to old computers Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-09 13:40 -0700
      Re: Kids react to old computers Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-07-09 07:04 -0700

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#60472

"Siri Crews" <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:chine.bleu-C1EF0E.23433907062014@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <bvhtvtF33s6U2@mid.individual.net>,
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:59t5p9p55t8b1ku099ksf3ls3891ka5lfe@4ax.com...
>> > JF Mezei writes:
>> >
>> >> In the case of iPad and iPhone, because the keyboard is on the screen, 
>> >> a
>> >> switch from touchscreen to keyboard is natural because the hand need 
>> >> not
>> >> move much and you need not necessarily change how you hold the device.
>> >> (or move arms).
>> >
>> > I use my iGadgets occasionally for editing code or accessing servers 
>> > via
>> > SSH
>> > in a pinch. It's immensely handy and convenient, but it sure is slow, 
>> > even
>> > with apps that are well designed. The lack of a true keyboard is the 
>> > major
>> > problem. But these are exceptions, of course, since most of the time 
>> > text
>> > entry is limited on a mobile device and a touchscreen is more of an
>> > advantage
>> > than a disadvantage.
>>
>> And the best UIs allow you to speak the text instead of typing anything.
>
> if open paren i plus 1 greater m close paren open brace new line indent m 
> equals
> i plus 1 semicolon new line increase buffer (all one word) open paren m 
> close
> paren semicolon new line undent close brace.
>
> Yes, I can see how that would work out.
>
>    if (i+1>m) {
>        m = i+1;
>        increaseBuffer(m);
>    }

Only fools use that UI for code. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#60473

In article <bvip5pF86klU1@mid.individual.net>,
 "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

> "Siri Crews" <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
> news:chine.bleu-C1EF0E.23433907062014@news.eternal-september.org...
> > In article <bvhtvtF33s6U2@mid.individual.net>,
> > "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:59t5p9p55t8b1ku099ksf3ls3891ka5lfe@4ax.com...
> >> > JF Mezei writes:
> >> >
> >> >> In the case of iPad and iPhone, because the keyboard is on the screen, 
> >> >> a
> >> >> switch from touchscreen to keyboard is natural because the hand need 
> >> >> not
> >> >> move much and you need not necessarily change how you hold the device.
> >> >> (or move arms).
> >> >
> >> > I use my iGadgets occasionally for editing code or accessing servers 
> >> > via
> >> > SSH
> >> > in a pinch. It's immensely handy and convenient, but it sure is slow, 
> >> > even
> >> > with apps that are well designed. The lack of a true keyboard is the 
> >> > major
> >> > problem. But these are exceptions, of course, since most of the time 
> >> > text
> >> > entry is limited on a mobile device and a touchscreen is more of an
> >> > advantage
> >> > than a disadvantage.
> >>
> >> And the best UIs allow you to speak the text instead of typing anything.
> >
> > if open paren i plus 1 greater m close paren open brace new line indent m 
> > equals
> > i plus 1 semicolon new line increase buffer (all one word) open paren m 
> > close
> > paren semicolon new line undent close brace.
> >
> > Yes, I can see how that would work out.
> >
> >    if (i+1>m) {
> >        m = i+1;
> >        increaseBuffer(m);
> >    }
> 
> Only fools use that UI for code. 

So perhaps the best interface of mouse, menu, keyboard, and voice depends on the 
task at hand.

-- 
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
Icke's razor: Given two equally plausible explanations, choose the weirder.

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#60540

"Siri Crews" <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:chine.bleu-D79421.03093408062014@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <bvip5pF86klU1@mid.individual.net>,
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "Siri Crews" <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:chine.bleu-C1EF0E.23433907062014@news.eternal-september.org...
>> > In article <bvhtvtF33s6U2@mid.individual.net>,
>> > "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:59t5p9p55t8b1ku099ksf3ls3891ka5lfe@4ax.com...
>> >> > JF Mezei writes:
>> >> >
>> >> >> In the case of iPad and iPhone, because the keyboard is on the 
>> >> >> screen,
>> >> >> a
>> >> >> switch from touchscreen to keyboard is natural because the hand 
>> >> >> need
>> >> >> not
>> >> >> move much and you need not necessarily change how you hold the 
>> >> >> device.
>> >> >> (or move arms).
>> >> >
>> >> > I use my iGadgets occasionally for editing code or accessing servers
>> >> > via
>> >> > SSH
>> >> > in a pinch. It's immensely handy and convenient, but it sure is 
>> >> > slow,
>> >> > even
>> >> > with apps that are well designed. The lack of a true keyboard is the
>> >> > major
>> >> > problem. But these are exceptions, of course, since most of the time
>> >> > text
>> >> > entry is limited on a mobile device and a touchscreen is more of an
>> >> > advantage
>> >> > than a disadvantage.
>> >>
>> >> And the best UIs allow you to speak the text instead of typing 
>> >> anything.
>> >
>> > if open paren i plus 1 greater m close paren open brace new line indent 
>> > m
>> > equals
>> > i plus 1 semicolon new line increase buffer (all one word) open paren m
>> > close
>> > paren semicolon new line undent close brace.
>> >
>> > Yes, I can see how that would work out.
>> >
>> >    if (i+1>m) {
>> >        m = i+1;
>> >        increaseBuffer(m);
>> >    }
>>
>> Only fools use that UI for code.
>
> So perhaps the best interface of mouse, menu, keyboard, and voice depends 
> on the
> task at hand.

And its perfectly possible to allow the use of whatever is best for a 
particular task. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#60452

In article <59t5p9p55t8b1ku099ksf3ls3891ka5lfe@4ax.com>, Mxsmanic
<mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote:

> I use my iGadgets occasionally for editing code or accessing servers via SSH
> in a pinch. It's immensely handy and convenient, but it sure is slow, even
> with apps that are well designed. The lack of a true keyboard is the major
> problem. But these are exceptions, of course, since most of the time text
> entry is limited on a mobile device and a touchscreen is more of an advantage
> than a disadvantage.

use a bluetooth keyboard.

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#60410

nospam writes:

> you might think a text interface is faster, but it isn't.

I know that it's faster. You can put multiple arguments and parameters on a
single command line, while typing with both hands, and this is at least an
order of magnitude more efficient than clicking on things with a mouse.

Similarly, a screenful of text communicates a lot more than a few pretty
icons.

> there have been several studies that measured just how long various
> tasks took with a keyboard and a mouse.

Which ones?

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#60424

In article <15t5p9ldevpkqpknls0ll050c12fhu1eet@4ax.com>, Mxsmanic
<mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote:

> nospam writes:
> 
> > you might think a text interface is faster, but it isn't.
> 
> I know that it's faster. You can put multiple arguments and parameters on a
> single command line, while typing with both hands, and this is at least an
> order of magnitude more efficient than clicking on things with a mouse.

No it isn't, because I'd have to memorise those commands, arguments,
and parameters first. Catch me wasting valuable brain cells doing
*that*.

-- 
"Once you adopt the unix paradigm, the variants cease to be a problem - you
bitch, of course, but that's because bitching is fun, unlike M$ OS's, where 
bitching is required to keep your head from exploding." - S Stremler in afc

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#60454

On 6/7/2014 1:03 PM, Tim Streater wrote:
> In article <15t5p9ldevpkqpknls0ll050c12fhu1eet@4ax.com>, Mxsmanic
> <mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> nospam writes:
>>
>> > you might think a text interface is faster, but it isn't.
>>
>> I know that it's faster. You can put multiple arguments and parameters
>> on a
>> single command line, while typing with both hands, and this is at
>> least an
>> order of magnitude more efficient than clicking on things with a mouse.
>
> No it isn't, because I'd have to memorise those commands, arguments,
> and parameters first. Catch me wasting valuable brain cells doing
> *that*.
>

Many companies put point-and-click GUIs in front of legacy customer 
facing systems to cope with workforce attitudinal deficits like that.

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#60437

Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote
> nospam wrote

>> you might think a text interface is faster, but it isn't.

> I know that it's faster. You can put multiple arguments and parameters on 
> a
> single command line, while typing with both hands, and this is at least an
> order of magnitude more efficient than clicking on things with a mouse.

Depends entirely on what you are doing. When I am making space on the
PVR by shifting the unwatched stuff to the drives that I have made space
on by editing out the material I have already watched, I normally want to
move say 27.7GB of files into the space just freed, and its MUCH quicker
to highlight the files to move while watching the total size of the 
highlighted
files and then click on the move button than you can ever do with the
text interface.

> Similarly, a screenful of text communicates
> a lot more than a few pretty icons.

Again, it depends on what you are doing. A photo of what
you are saying has failed in a particular way is often MUCH
better than trying to spell out in words what happened.

>> there have been several studies that measured just how
>> long various tasks took with a keyboard and a mouse.

> Which ones? 

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#60447

In article <15t5p9ldevpkqpknls0ll050c12fhu1eet@4ax.com>, Mxsmanic
<mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote:

> > you might think a text interface is faster, but it isn't.
> 
> I know that it's faster. You can put multiple arguments and parameters on a
> single command line, while typing with both hands, and this is at least an
> order of magnitude more efficient than clicking on things with a mouse.

that's exactly what the studies found. 

people *insisted* that text is faster.

however, when actually timed, it was slower.

> Similarly, a screenful of text communicates a lot more than a few pretty
> icons.

not necessarily.

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#60333

In article <ltf2p91225aeq40ieq388rr156klp3ob7a@4ax.com>, Mxsmanic
<mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote:
> nospam writes:
> >
<snip>
> > 
> > babies who can't even speak can figure out how to use a tablet. good
> > luck trying to teach them how to use a command line.
> 
> Adults can build bridges and locomotives. Good luck teaching babies to do
> that.

Not bridges nor locomotives (yet!), but judging by the sheer number of
recall notices that keep appearing in the newspaper, things might be
better quality if babies did build them.  ;-)

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#60399

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote 
> Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote

>>> They're using an Apple ][, but would have had essentially the 
>>> same reaction if it had been a Commodore PET or TRS-80.
 
>> And it would also be the same reaction if it were a brand-new gadget 
>> with an unfamiliar interface. So it doesn't really prove anything.
 
> not necessarily. 
 
> kids figure out new products quite well. just look at how 
> easily babies figure out ipads, before they can even talk.

Yeah. Mate of mine uses a wireless USB stick for net access. 
Takes it out of the laptop when not using it basically so it
doesn't get broken off by someone. One day he couldn't 
find the wireless USB stick anywhere. Gave up looking for
it. Next time he wanted to use the laptop the midget was
around and noticed him looking for the USB stick again. 
He grunted, because he didn't talk at that stage, went
over to his little chest of plastic drawers that he kept his 
smaller toys like model cars and dinosaurs etc in and 
pulled open one of the drawers and got the USB stick 
out of it and waved it around with a grin on his face. 

Corse he also used the laptop as a wifit after seeing
one of those being used at someone else's place on
a visit. Didn't do the screen much good at all. 

It will be interesting to see how he turns out. His dad
used to be over at my place almost every day to play
on the C64 when he was only a little older than that,
before he started school. 
 
>> Also, a truly computer-literate kid would be able to figure out 
>> what to do with an Apple II readily, since there are still many 
>> computers today that use text-based interfaces (I use such 
>> interfaces all the time, as they have a number of advantages).
 
> they're extremely rare.
 
>> Put another way, these kids are clueless because they know 
>> nothing about computers other than the ones they hold in 
>> their hands, not because any particular computer is old.
 
> no, it's because computers are vastly more 
> user friendly than what existed 40 years ago.

Dunno, in many ways even basic cellphones arent
compared with the landline phones 40 years ago.  

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#59903

In article <pbpmo91k4oqisu2nv1c78a90dfg5tgjh0p@4ax.com>,
 Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote:

> Michelle Steiner writes:
> 
> > They're using an Apple ][, but would have had essentially the same
> > reaction if it had been a Commodore PET or TRS-80.
> 
> And it would also be the same reaction if it were a brand-new gadget with an
> unfamiliar interface. So it doesn't really prove anything.

As long as it's the same general paradigm as modern GUIs, e.g. menus 
that you select from and buttons you click or tap on, they'll pick it up 
easily based on what they already know. These interfaces are very 
natural, because they're extensions of a familiar metaphor of direct 
manipulation.

Look at how quickly people picked up on the gestures that were 
introduced on iOS devices and copied by all the other tablets and smart 
phones. Someone might not automatically guess that swiping can be used, 
but if someone shows it to them they won't find it confusing, like the 
kids found the Apple ][. The reaction everyone will have is "Oh, of 
course, that makes perfect sense".

-- 
Barry Margolin
Arlington, MA

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#62046

In article <260520140955077061%michelle@michelle.org>,
 Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> They're using an Apple ][, but would have had essentially the same
> reaction if it had been a Commodore PET or TRS-80.
> 
> -- Michelle
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF7EpEnglgk

Remember the Startreck movie with the whales, where Scotty tries 
to talk into the Macintosh's mouse. "Primitive interface"

-- 
Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greed. Me.

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#62106

On 7/7/2014 6:05 AM PT, Walter Bushell typed:

> Remember the Startreck movie with the whales, where Scotty tries
> to talk into the Macintosh's mouse. "Primitive interface"

"Hello computer." -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9kTVZiJ3Uc
-- 
"Many ants kill a camel." --Turkish
    /\___/\         Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
   / /\ /\ \                Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
  | |o   o| |
     \ _ /        If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
      ( )         If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

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#62107

In article <6b-dnUpfj5rm1yDOnZ2dnUVZ_o-dnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
 Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> On 7/7/2014 6:05 AM PT, Walter Bushell typed:
> 
> > Remember the Startreck movie with the whales, where Scotty tries
> > to talk into the Macintosh's mouse. "Primitive interface"
> 
> "Hello computer." -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9kTVZiJ3Uc

If they had waited a few years, the Mac would listen and talk.

-- 
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
Icke's razor: Given two equally plausible explanations, choose the weirder.

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#62108

On 7/9/2014 7:01 AM PT, Siri Crews typed:

>>> Remember the Startreck movie with the whales, where Scotty tries
>>> to talk into the Macintosh's mouse. "Primitive interface"
>>
>> "Hello computer." -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9kTVZiJ3Uc
>
> If they had waited a few years, the Mac would listen and talk.

Which Mac model was that?
-- 
"It is not enough to be busy, so are the ants. The question is: what are 
we busy about?" --Henry David Thoreau
    /\___/\         Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
   / /\ /\ \                Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
  | |o   o| |
     \ _ /        If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
      ( )         If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

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#62111

In article <6b-dnUVfj5oY1iDOnZ2dnUVZ_o-dnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Ant
<ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> >>> Remember the Startreck movie with the whales, where Scotty tries
> >>> to talk into the Macintosh's mouse. "Primitive interface"
> >>
> >> "Hello computer." -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9kTVZiJ3Uc
> >
> > If they had waited a few years, the Mac would listen and talk.
> 
> Which Mac model was that?

it was a mac plus, and in some scenes you can see the cable running out
the back because it was being fed raw video, which if i recall, was
from a silicon graphics workstation.

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#62112

Okay, so one time? In band camp? Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> was all, like: 
 --> 	 Wed, 09 Jul 2014 07:02:45 -0700 <6b-dnUVfj5oY1iDOnZ2dnUVZ_o-dnZ2d@earthlink.com>
> On 7/9/2014 7:01 AM PT, Siri Crews typed:

>>>> Remember the Startreck movie with the whales, where Scotty tries
>>>> to talk into the Macintosh's mouse. "Primitive interface"
>>>
>>> "Hello computer." -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9kTVZiJ3Uc
>>
>> If they had waited a few years, the Mac would listen and talk.

> Which Mac model was that?

Well, the Mac could talk from the beginning. It could listen... let's
see, My Quadra 600av could be speech controlled. In system 7.5 or so, I
could login with a  voice command instead of a password (I used,
naturally, "Open the pod bay doors") and it knew my voice as opposed to
anyone else's.

-- 
'We get that in here some nights, when someone's had a few. Cosmic
speculation about whether the gods exist. Next thing, there's a bolt of
lightning through the door with a note wrapped round it saying, "Yes, we
do" and a pair of sandals with smoke coming out.' (Small Gods)

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#62113

>>>> Remember the Startreck movie with the whales, where Scotty tries
>>>> to talk into the Macintosh's mouse. "Primitive interface"


The "save the whales" was released in November 1986. Not sure when
shooting of the scene involving the mouse that fails do do voice recog
was done, but I suspect it was likely a year before in 1985. Was the
Mac+ out already, or still at the original Mac ?

(I bought my Mac+ in 1986)

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#62114

In article <53bd9fa7$0$1297$c3e8da3$b1356c67@news.astraweb.com>, JF
Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> >>>> Remember the Startreck movie with the whales, where Scotty tries
> >>>> to talk into the Macintosh's mouse. "Primitive interface"
> 
> 
> The "save the whales" was released in November 1986. Not sure when
> shooting of the scene involving the mouse that fails do do voice recog
> was done, but I suspect it was likely a year before in 1985. Was the
> Mac+ out already, or still at the original Mac ?

the mac plus came out in january, 1986.

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