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Can't Stay Signed in to Web Sites

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  Can't Stay Signed in to Web Sites Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2014-06-01 22:59 -0400
    Re: Can't Stay Signed in to Web Sites Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-02 03:30 +0000
      Re: Can't Stay Signed in to Web Sites Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-06-01 22:29 -0700
        Re: Can't Stay Signed in to Web Sites Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2014-06-02 14:05 -0400
          Re: Can't Stay Signed in to Web Sites Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-06-02 19:06 -0700
            Re: Can't Stay Signed in to Web Sites Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2014-06-02 23:04 -0400
              Re: Can't Stay Signed in to Web Sites Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-06-02 23:54 -0700
    Re: Can't Stay Signed in to Web Sites Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-06-01 23:33 -0400
      Re: Can't Stay Signed in to Web Sites Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2014-06-02 01:13 -0400

#59905 — Can't Stay Signed in to Web Sites

Latest OS, latest everything.

On one, and only one, of my five Macs, Safari does not keep me signed
in to web sites after I close their windows. I'm referring to Google,
Facebook, Yahoo, Flickr, and others, but not to financial sites, where
this behavior is expected.

I cannot find any setting in Safari or in System Preferences on this
machine that differs from settings on my other Macs. Perhaps I am
overlooking something, however, and that's why I am seeking advice.

TIA!

-- 
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

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#59906

On 2014-06-02, Davoud <star@sky.net> wrote:
> Latest OS, latest everything.
>
> On one, and only one, of my five Macs, Safari does not keep me signed
> in to web sites after I close their windows. I'm referring to Google,
> Facebook, Yahoo, Flickr, and others, but not to financial sites, where
> this behavior is expected.
>
> I cannot find any setting in Safari or in System Preferences on this
> machine that differs from settings on my other Macs. Perhaps I am
> overlooking something, however, and that's why I am seeking advice.

Sounds like Safari isn't storing cookies on that machine. Is private
browsing perhaps enabled in the Safari menu?

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#59909

In article <bv29e2Foj26U1@mid.individual.net>,
 Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2014-06-02, Davoud <star@sky.net> wrote:
> > Latest OS, latest everything.
> >
> > On one, and only one, of my five Macs, Safari does not keep me signed
> > in to web sites after I close their windows. I'm referring to Google,
> > Facebook, Yahoo, Flickr, and others, but not to financial sites, where
> > this behavior is expected.
> >
> > I cannot find any setting in Safari or in System Preferences on this
> > machine that differs from settings on my other Macs. Perhaps I am
> > overlooking something, however, and that's why I am seeking advice.
> 
> Sounds like Safari isn't storing cookies on that machine. Is private
> browsing perhaps enabled in the Safari menu?

I see Davoud's behavior with Chrome on 10.8.5.  As soon as I quit 
Chrome, I have to login to a bunch of sites, even though I've enabled 
storing passwords and cookies.  Gmail, Facebook, Twitter, Yahoo, 
Netflix, and Amazon all require me to login and reauthenticate again.  
Some sites have 2-factor authentication (Gmail and Facebook) and I have 
to get keys from my phone as well as enter my username and password.  
Chrome stores that unless I've run Onyx to clean all my browsers saved 
stuff.  But I still have to reauthenticate.  

This isn't a function of the browser.  It's the decision of the site to 
decide if they'll trust the connection after it's session cookie 
changes.  You have no control over that since it's generated by the 
server.

It's a feature.  Not a bug.  Learn to live with it and you'll be closer 
to enlightenment.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

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#59921

Michael Vilain:
> I see Davoud's behavior with Chrome on 10.8.5.  As soon as I quit 
> Chrome, I have to login to a bunch of sites, even though I've enabled 
> storing passwords and cookies.  Gmail, Facebook, Twitter, Yahoo, 
> Netflix, and Amazon all require me to login and reauthenticate again.  
> Some sites have 2-factor authentication (Gmail and Facebook) and I have 
> to get keys from my phone as well as enter my username and password.  
> Chrome stores that unless I've run Onyx to clean all my browsers saved 
> stuff.  But I still have to reauthenticate.  
> 
> This isn't a function of the browser.  It's the decision of the site to 
> decide if they'll trust the connection after it's session cookie 
> changes.  You have no control over that since it's generated by the 
> server.
> 
> It's a feature.  Not a bug.  Learn to live with it and you'll be closer 
> to enlightenment.

OK, but how does it happen that this "feature" is available on only one
of my five Macs? The appropriate cookies seem to be in place.

-- 
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

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#59965

In article <020620141405247762%star@sky.net>, Davoud <star@sky.net> 
wrote:

> Michael Vilain:
> > I see Davoud's behavior with Chrome on 10.8.5.  As soon as I quit 
> > Chrome, I have to login to a bunch of sites, even though I've enabled 
> > storing passwords and cookies.  Gmail, Facebook, Twitter, Yahoo, 
> > Netflix, and Amazon all require me to login and reauthenticate again.  
> > Some sites have 2-factor authentication (Gmail and Facebook) and I have 
> > to get keys from my phone as well as enter my username and password.  
> > Chrome stores that unless I've run Onyx to clean all my browsers saved 
> > stuff.  But I still have to reauthenticate.  
> > 
> > This isn't a function of the browser.  It's the decision of the site to 
> > decide if they'll trust the connection after it's session cookie 
> > changes.  You have no control over that since it's generated by the 
> > server.
> > 
> > It's a feature.  Not a bug.  Learn to live with it and you'll be closer 
> > to enlightenment.
> 
> OK, but how does it happen that this "feature" is available on only one
> of my five Macs? The appropriate cookies seem to be in place.

Obviously, that machine is not identical to the others in some way.  
Things I'd try:

Try the browser in a new account.  Try *all* the bowsers in a new 
account.

Change the IP address of your machine by taking it to another location 
(e.g. Starbucks) and see if that changes the behavior.

Wipe the browser preferences to factory defaults on the machine with the 
problem, but not if the problem goes away with another account.  If that 
doesn't change it, remove the browser and re-install it.

Note that the behavior I see is that sites ask for a password after I 
quit the browser.  If I've saved the password, they prompt the password 
with the saved value filled in.  This is the site saying "we don't trust 
your session ID any more.  Log in again and reauthenticate."

Things that can change a session ID are 

(a) IP address changes (e.g. you loose your DHCP lease) or login from 
another IP address to the site

(b) quitting the browser which deletes the session information in 
various temporary files.  I suspect this browser has preferences set 
internally to do this.  Usually these aren't customer-accessible 
preferences.  If you can compare the .plist files of the browsers that 
don't do this with those that do, a diff might tell you what's 
different.  How do you know what files to diff?  fseventer and various 
other file-watching utilities may tell you want plist files are being 
touched.

(b) is a long shot and probably a couple days to track down if you're 
lucky.  If this is that important to you, go for it.  It might help to 
contact the site that doesn't have the persistent values and complain to 
the webmaster.  If they come back and say "Oh, tell me more about the 
other machines where it doesn't do this. That's a bug."

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

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#59973

Michael Vilain:
> Obviously, that machine is not identical to the others in some way.  
> Things I'd try:
> 
> Try the browser in a new account.  Try *all* the bowsers in a new 
> account.
> 
> Change the IP address of your machine by taking it to another location 
> (e.g. Starbucks) and see if that changes the behavior.
> 
> Wipe the browser preferences to factory defaults on the machine with the 
> problem, but not if the problem goes away with another account.  If that 
> doesn't change it, remove the browser and re-install it.
> 
> Note that the behavior I see is that sites ask for a password after I 
> quit the browser.  If I've saved the password, they prompt the password 
> with the saved value filled in.  This is the site saying "we don't trust 
> your session ID any more.  Log in again and reauthenticate."
> 
> Things that can change a session ID are 
> 
> (a) IP address changes (e.g. you loose your DHCP lease) or login from 
> another IP address to the site
> 
> (b) quitting the browser which deletes the session information in 
> various temporary files.  I suspect this browser has preferences set 
> internally to do this.  Usually these aren't customer-accessible 
> preferences.  If you can compare the .plist files of the browsers that 
> don't do this with those that do, a diff might tell you what's 
> different.  How do you know what files to diff?  fseventer and various 
> other file-watching utilities may tell you want plist files are being 
> touched.
> 
> (b) is a long shot and probably a couple days to track down if you're 
> lucky.  If this is that important to you, go for it.  It might help to 
> contact the site that doesn't have the persistent values and complain to 
> the webmaster.  If they come back and say "Oh, tell me more about the 
> other machines where it doesn't do this. That's a bug."

Probably not gonna do any of that, especially carry this 27" iMac to
Starbucks! But I genuinely appreciate you taking time to reply.

This phenomenon doesn't require that I quit the browser to manifest
itself, only that I close the page that needs a log-in and open it
again.

-- 
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

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#59991

In article <020620142304455102%star@sky.net>, Davoud <star@sky.net> 
wrote:

> Michael Vilain:
> > Obviously, that machine is not identical to the others in some way.  
> > Things I'd try:
> > 
> > Try the browser in a new account.  Try *all* the bowsers in a new 
> > account.
> > 
> > Change the IP address of your machine by taking it to another location 
> > (e.g. Starbucks) and see if that changes the behavior.
> > 
> > Wipe the browser preferences to factory defaults on the machine with the 
> > problem, but not if the problem goes away with another account.  If that 
> > doesn't change it, remove the browser and re-install it.
> > 
> > Note that the behavior I see is that sites ask for a password after I 
> > quit the browser.  If I've saved the password, they prompt the password 
> > with the saved value filled in.  This is the site saying "we don't trust 
> > your session ID any more.  Log in again and reauthenticate."
> > 
> > Things that can change a session ID are 
> > 
> > (a) IP address changes (e.g. you loose your DHCP lease) or login from 
> > another IP address to the site
> > 
> > (b) quitting the browser which deletes the session information in 
> > various temporary files.  I suspect this browser has preferences set 
> > internally to do this.  Usually these aren't customer-accessible 
> > preferences.  If you can compare the .plist files of the browsers that 
> > don't do this with those that do, a diff might tell you what's 
> > different.  How do you know what files to diff?  fseventer and various 
> > other file-watching utilities may tell you want plist files are being 
> > touched.
> > 
> > (b) is a long shot and probably a couple days to track down if you're 
> > lucky.  If this is that important to you, go for it.  It might help to 
> > contact the site that doesn't have the persistent values and complain to 
> > the webmaster.  If they come back and say "Oh, tell me more about the 
> > other machines where it doesn't do this. That's a bug."
> 
> Probably not gonna do any of that, especially carry this 27" iMac to
> Starbucks! But I genuinely appreciate you taking time to reply.
> 
> This phenomenon doesn't require that I quit the browser to manifest
> itself, only that I close the page that needs a log-in and open it
> again.

That's an entirely different problem.  I don't know what might change in 
a browser when you close a page.  Supposedly, nothing, as a browser is 
stateless.  It shouldn't delete any session information.  When I log 
into a site, close a page, then go back to the site (e.g. Amazon or 
fanfic.net), I'm still logged in until I click "logout".  That deletes 
the session information on the server.  

If there's some sort of java or javascript is running in the background 
for the page you're viewing, that would go away when you close the page.

What happens on the other machines if you disable javascript or java?  
Do they exhibit this behavior?  If you disable Javascript for this site, 
does that change things (there are browser plugins that will do this for 
individual pages but I find them a pain).

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

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#59907

In article <010620142259280925%star@sky.net>, Davoud <star@sky.net> 
wrote:

> Latest OS, latest everything.
> 
> On one, and only one, of my five Macs, Safari does not keep me signed
> in to web sites after I close their windows. I'm referring to Google,
> Facebook, Yahoo, Flickr, and others, but not to financial sites, where
> this behavior is expected.

Do you have Private Browsing enabled?

> 
> I cannot find any setting in Safari or in System Preferences on this
> machine that differs from settings on my other Macs. Perhaps I am
> overlooking something, however, and that's why I am seeking advice.

Sounds like you have something deleting cookies when you close Safari. I 
don't see such an option in Preferences, but I'm using Safari 5.1, not 
the latest version. It could also be an extension you have loaded.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

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#59908

In article <barmar-3C77C0.23331701062014@news.eternal-september.org>,
<barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

Davoud:
> > Latest OS, latest everything.
> > 
> > On one, and only one, of my five Macs, Safari does not keep me signed
> > in to web sites after I close their windows. I'm referring to Google,
> > Facebook, Yahoo, Flickr, and others, but not to financial sites, where
> > this behavior is expected.

Barry Margolin:
> Do you have Private Browsing enabled?

No.

> > I cannot find any setting in Safari or in System Preferences on this
> > machine that differs from settings on my other Macs. Perhaps I am
> > overlooking something, however, and that's why I am seeking advice.

> Sounds like you have something deleting cookies when you close Safari. I 
> don't see such an option in Preferences, but I'm using Safari 5.1, not 
> the latest version. It could also be an extension you have loaded.

I run the utility "Cookie," which I use to delete tracking and flash
cookies. But I run it on all of my Macs. All of the sites that I want
to be logged into seem to have the right cookies in place. I have no
Safari extensions on this machine that are not on my other machines.

Thanks!

-- 
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

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