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Repair Disk Permissions

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  Repair Disk Permissions jgras1970@gmail.com - 2014-03-30 11:07 -0700
    Re: Repair Disk Permissions Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-30 19:08 +0000
      Re: Repair Disk Permissions Howard.not@home.com (Howard) - 2014-03-31 17:38 +0100
        Re: Repair Disk Permissions nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-31 13:40 -0400
        Re: Repair Disk Permissions Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-31 17:41 +0000
          Re: Repair Disk Permissions Howard.not@home.com (Howard) - 2014-03-31 21:58 +0100
            Re: Repair Disk Permissions nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-31 17:36 -0400
            Re: Repair Disk Permissions Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-31 22:44 +0000
            Re: Repair Disk Permissions Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-31 23:21 +0000
    Re: Repair Disk Permissions Frank <gno52@windstream.net> - 2014-04-02 02:47 -0700
      Re: Repair Disk Permissions M-M <nospam@ny.more> - 2014-04-02 08:47 -0400
        Re: Repair Disk Permissions nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-02 09:17 -0400
      Re: Repair Disk Permissions nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-02 09:17 -0400
      Re: Repair Disk Permissions Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-04-02 06:37 -0700
      Re: Repair Disk Permissions Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-04-02 14:16 +0000
      Re: Repair Disk Permissions Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-04-02 16:28 +0000

#58233 — Repair Disk Permissions

Are the following kind of messages normal, when repairing disk permissions?
Warning: the SUID file "System/Library/CoreServices/RemoteManagement/ARDAgent.app/Contents/MacOS/ARDAgent" has been modified and it will not be repaired.

This has stroke me because I don't use RemoteManagement.
I have not installed anything except an antivirus the last 2 years.

Why file permissions get changed without doing anything for it?

Thanks in advance for the given help. Bye

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#58234

On 2014-03-30, jgras1970@gmail.com <jgras1970@gmail.com> wrote:
> Are the following kind of messages normal, when repairing disk
> permissions?  Warning: the SUID file
> "System/Library/CoreServices/RemoteManagement/ARDAgent.app/Contents/MacOS/ARDAgent"
> has been modified and it will not be repaired.
>
> This has stroke me because I don't use RemoteManagement.  I have not
> installed anything except an antivirus the last 2 years.
>
> Why file permissions get changed without doing anything for it?
>
> Thanks in advance for the given help. Bye

Disk Utility's Repair Permissions function isn't as magical a tool as a
lot of people seem to assume. It's a very simple tool that is meant to
reset the states of ownership and permissions of *specific sets of
files*, and *only* those files listed in the receipts of specific
software in the receipts folder. This receipts folder is located at
/Library/Receipts in Mac OS X versions prior to 10.6, and was moved to
/private/var/db/receipts starting with version 10.6.

Repair Permissions reads the contents of each receipt in the receipts
folder to find out which files and folders it should examine. Receipts
are typically created by software installers that use the Mac OS X
built-in /Applications/Utilities/Installer program to install a software
package, though they may be placed into the receipts folder by other
means as well. Receipts typically contain a "Bill of Materials" file
that lists of each important file and folder in the installed software
package, along with the expected ownership and permissions those files
and folders, according to the install package.

Repair Permissions examines only those files listed by these receipts.
This means the files in your home folder and the files in the local
domain (/Library for instance) are *not* examined. 

The Repair Permissions tool has a rather serious design flaw: it does
not know how to resolve cases where multiple receipts list the same file
or folder with differing ownership and permissions. This actually
happens fairly frequently, particularly when more than one software
package installs and uses a shared library or other system resource that
happens to be used by another software package. If there are multiple
receipts that list a given file or folder, and the expected ownership
and permissions differ between those two receipts, Repair Permissions
will encounter the first receipt, change the ownership and permissions
to honor that receipt, then encounter the second receipt and change the
ownership and permissions to honor the second receipt. This typically
manifests itself in Disk Utility's Repair Permissions log as a
file/folder that never seems to be actually repaired, flipping back and
forth between two states.

Once you understand how it works, you see Repair Permissions is not half
as useful or magical as a lot of people seem to believe. I wish more
people understood this - we probably wouldn't see so many Mac users
running Repair Permissions at the drop of the hat or on a regular
schedule as we see so often.  ; )

Bottom line: If you are not experiencing problems with a specific piece
of software listed in the receipts folder, there's no reason to run
Repair Permissions.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#58242

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> 
> Disk Utility's Repair Permissions function isn't as magical a tool as a
> lot of people seem to assume. 

Interesting post. Thanks Jolly.   Is there a 3rd party tool that does a
good job on this issue ?

-- 
Howard

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#58245

In article <1ljdv72.6e85c01inv210N%Howard.not@home.com>, Howard
<Howard.not@home.com> wrote:

> > Disk Utility's Repair Permissions function isn't as magical a tool as a
> > lot of people seem to assume. 
> 
> Interesting post. Thanks Jolly.   Is there a 3rd party tool that does a
> good job on this issue ?

there's no need to repair anything because permissions don't 'break'. 

if there's a problem, find its cause and fix *that*.

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#58246

On 2014-03-31, Howard <Howard.not@home.com> wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> 
>> Disk Utility's Repair Permissions function isn't as magical a tool as a
>> lot of people seem to assume. 
>
> Interesting post. Thanks Jolly.   Is there a 3rd party tool that does a
> good job on this issue ?

Which issue? Repairing permissions? Apple's tool does well enough with
that (design flaws withstanding). Or are you referring to some other
issue related to permissions?

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#58250

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2014-03-31, Howard <Howard.not@home.com> wrote:
> > Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> >
> >> 
> >> Disk Utility's Repair Permissions function isn't as magical a tool as a
> >> lot of people seem to assume. 
> >
> > Interesting post. Thanks Jolly.   Is there a 3rd party tool that does a
> > good job on this issue ?
> 
> Which issue? Repairing permissions? Apple's tool does well enough with
> that (design flaws withstanding). Or are you referring to some other
> issue related to permissions?

No I guess I am just thinking about how often people or software has
advised to repair the permissions on my HD ... so I thought if Apple's
app doesn't do a great job then maybe there's a 3rd party app for it.

I really have no idea what causes the 'problems', if anything :D and
'nospam' has pointed out that there is no such problem .... 


-- 
Howard

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#58251

In article <1lje7m4.1vk0famaequhkN%Howard.not@home.com>, Howard
<Howard.not@home.com> wrote:

> > >> Disk Utility's Repair Permissions function isn't as magical a tool as a
> > >> lot of people seem to assume. 
> > >
> > > Interesting post. Thanks Jolly.   Is there a 3rd party tool that does a
> > > good job on this issue ?
> > 
> > Which issue? Repairing permissions? Apple's tool does well enough with
> > that (design flaws withstanding). Or are you referring to some other
> > issue related to permissions?
> 
> No I guess I am just thinking about how often people or software has
> advised to repair the permissions on my HD ... so I thought if Apple's
> app doesn't do a great job then maybe there's a 3rd party app for it.
> 
> I really have no idea what causes the 'problems', if anything :D and
> 'nospam' has pointed out that there is no such problem ....

i didn't say there isn't a problem, but rather that permissions don't
'break' so there's nothing to 'repair'. the name is misleading. 

all that repair permissions does is set the permissions to what apple
thinks they should be. there are good reasons for the permissions to be
different than that. in some cases, they might be set to where there's
a problem, but that's relatively rare. 

repair permissions is often suggested just in case it does fix
something, but usually it's a waste of time and it's definitely a waste
of time to do routinely.

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#58253

On 2014-03-31, Howard <Howard.not@home.com> wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2014-03-31, Howard <Howard.not@home.com> wrote:
>> > Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> 
>> >> Disk Utility's Repair Permissions function isn't as magical a tool as a
>> >> lot of people seem to assume. 
>> >
>> > Interesting post. Thanks Jolly.   Is there a 3rd party tool that does a
>> > good job on this issue ?
>> 
>> Which issue? Repairing permissions? Apple's tool does well enough with
>> that (design flaws withstanding). Or are you referring to some other
>> issue related to permissions?
>
> No I guess I am just thinking about how often people or software has
> advised to repair the permissions on my HD ... so I thought if Apple's
> app doesn't do a great job then maybe there's a 3rd party app for it.
>
> I really have no idea what causes the 'problems', if anything :D and
> 'nospam' has pointed out that there is no such problem .... 

The flaw in Disk Utility's Repair Permissions facility I outlined
doesn't mean the facility doesn't work - it does work. It just means
that under one specific circumstance (when more than one receipt's build
of materials (BOM) mentions the same file), the tool may not behave as
expected. In this case, the tool does correctly set the specified file's
permissions according to the receipt BOM that mentioned the file. But
since there are multiple receipts referencing that file (possibly with
differing permissions specified in the BOM), which of those receipts are
honored, and in what order, are unknown.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#58256

In message <1lje7m4.1vk0famaequhkN%Howard.not@home.com> 
  Howard <Howard.not@home.com> wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

>> On 2014-03-31, Howard <Howard.not@home.com> wrote:
>> > Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> 
>> >> Disk Utility's Repair Permissions function isn't as magical a tool as a
>> >> lot of people seem to assume. 
>> >
>> > Interesting post. Thanks Jolly.   Is there a 3rd party tool that does a
>> > good job on this issue ?
>> 
>> Which issue? Repairing permissions? Apple's tool does well enough with
>> that (design flaws withstanding). Or are you referring to some other
>> issue related to permissions?

> No I guess I am just thinking about how often people or software has
> advised to repair the permissions on my HD

This is because people are idiots and have no idea what they are talking
about.

> ... so I thought if Apple's
> app doesn't do a great job then maybe there's a 3rd party app for it.

A great job of what? The repair permissions in DU does exactly what it is
supposed to do. It is sometimes, rarely, useful to fix a tiny fraction
of a very specific set of problems.

-- 
The real American folksong is a rag -- a mental jag A rhythmic tone for
the chronic blues

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#58283

So what is a good application to use for the gradual slowdowns that develop with the passage of time and usage... sort of like defragging in windows.

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#58284

In article <c6e02611-de5f-4f11-a31b-3574db0853fc@googlegroups.com>,
Frank <gno52@windstream.net> wrote:

> So what is a good application to use for the gradual slowdowns that develop
> with the passage of time and usage... sort of like defragging in windows.


Delete the contents of Library/Caches

-- 
m-m
http://www.mhmyers.com

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#58285

In article <020420140847186972%nospam@ny.more>, M-M <nospam@ny.more>
wrote:

> > So what is a good application to use for the gradual slowdowns that develop
> > with the passage of time and usage... sort of like defragging in windows.
> 
> Delete the contents of Library/Caches

that will make things slower.

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#58286

In article <c6e02611-de5f-4f11-a31b-3574db0853fc@googlegroups.com>,
Frank <gno52@windstream.net> wrote:

> So what is a good application to use for the gradual slowdowns that develop
> with the passage of time and usage... sort of like defragging in windows.

what gradual slowdown is that? 

about the only issue is that some apps have memory leaks and over time,
the virtual memory system will thrash. the solution for that is to quit
the leaky apps and relaunch them. a more drastic step is log out/log in
which quits all apps and an even bigger step is reboot the computer.

other than that there should be no gradual slowdown in normal use.

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#58287

In article <c6e02611-de5f-4f11-a31b-3574db0853fc@googlegroups.com>,
 Frank <gno52@windstream.net> wrote:

> So what is a good application to use for the gradual slowdowns that develop 
> with the passage of time and usage... sort of like defragging in windows.

Actually, with periodic security upgrades, I don't see those slowdowns 
you're talking about on MacOS X.  I've seen a vast improvement on how it 
deals with the virtual memory system. 10.6 and Safari would bloat 
significantly and create swap files until the sytem bogged down at the 
4GB mark, but a reboot fixes that.

I haven't heard good things about 10.9 and have a couple apps that won't 
work on it, so I'm sticking with 10.8 for now. It seems to be most 
stable.

But to answer your question, "that depends".  I think there are several 
assumptions behind it that are fallacious.  HFS with journaling is 
pretty tolerant of file fragments.  If you're running off a SSD, just 
forgetaboutit.  Really, forget about it.  Defragging will supposedly 
decrease the lifetime of a SSD.

Still, I take regular (nightly) backups. Have the system the volume for 
consistency and permissions and reboot weekly.  Others prefer to brag 
about how long their systems have been up, but I find that if install or 
change things, a reboot to validate that it all works is a Good 
Thing(tm).  That's overly cautious, but sysadmin habits die hard.

I use Onyx to do the disk consistancy check, run periodic maintenance, 
and clean up stuff like the "Open with" database, clear system, user, 
and font caches, etc.  That requires a reboot.

But you can re-install Windows.  That works every time.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

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#58288

In message <c6e02611-de5f-4f11-a31b-3574db0853fc@googlegroups.com> 
  Frank <gno52@windstream.net> wrote:
> So what is a good application to use for the gradual slowdowns that
> develop with the passage of time and usage... sort of like defragging
> in windows.

What gradual slowdowns are these?

I don't notice this under OS X myself. If the system is running slow
it's something pretty specific causing it, and I will often root out a
poorly written LaunchAgent or a left over LaunchAgent that is still
trying to load. Enough of these can certainly cause minor issues.

I know what *I* do to eliminate these issues, but it's not something I
recommend to others. Perhaps one of those tool suites like Onyx will
help root out old LaunchAgents?

I don't bother deleting caches, except on the laptop which is
space-constrained, and even then, rarely.

-- 
I is for IDA who drowned in a lake
J is for JAMES who took lye by mistake

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#58289

On 2014-04-02, Frank <gno52@windstream.net> wrote:
> So what is a good application to use for the gradual slowdowns that
> develop with the passage of time and usage... sort of like defragging
> in windows.

Nothing like that is necessary with Mac OS X.

Are you saying you are experiencing slow performance? If so, please give
us the details and we'll help you diagnose the problem.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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