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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #56833 > unrolled thread

Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw

Started byTed Lee <tmplee@gmail.com>
First post2014-02-22 12:56 -0600
Last post2014-03-01 21:53 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 197 — 21 participants

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Contents

  Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Ted Lee <tmplee@gmail.com> - 2014-02-22 12:56 -0600
    Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-02-22 14:15 -0500
      Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-22 14:47 -0500
        Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-22 21:30 +0000
          Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-22 19:04 -0500
            Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-23 00:36 +0000
              Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-23 09:48 -0500
                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-23 16:41 +0000
                  Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-23 12:05 -0500
                    Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-23 17:22 +0000
                    Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw billy@MIX.COM - 2014-02-24 02:15 +0000
                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-24 03:57 +0000
                  Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-24 18:25 -0500
                    Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-25 08:16 +0000
                      Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-25 19:50 -0500
              Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2014-02-23 07:51 -0800
                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-23 11:23 -0500
                  Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2014-02-23 15:05 -0800
                    Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-23 20:01 -0500
                      Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-24 04:21 +0000
                        Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Bill Findlay <yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2014-02-24 04:35 +0000
                          Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-24 06:00 +0000
                          Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-02-24 16:52 -0500
                            Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Bill Findlay <yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2014-02-24 21:54 +0000
                              Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-24 17:44 -0500
                                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Bill Findlay <yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2014-02-25 00:19 +0000
                                  Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-24 19:26 -0500
                                    Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Bill Findlay <yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2014-02-25 00:40 +0000
                                      Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-24 19:46 -0500
                                        Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Bill Findlay <yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2014-02-25 00:57 +0000
                          Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-24 17:43 -0500
                            Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Bill Findlay <yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2014-02-25 00:19 +0000
                              Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-24 19:29 -0500
                                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Bill Findlay <yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2014-02-25 00:40 +0000
                                  Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-24 19:45 -0500
                                    Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Bill Findlay <yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2014-02-25 00:57 +0000
                        Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-24 05:04 +0000
                          Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-24 06:00 +0000
                            Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-24 16:10 +0000
                              Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2014-02-24 12:15 -0500
                                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-24 22:33 +0000
                                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-24 17:47 -0500
                                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2014-02-25 13:41 +0000
                                  Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2014-02-25 09:06 -0500
                                    Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw billy@MIX.COM - 2014-02-25 17:34 +0000
                                      Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw billy@MIX.COM - 2014-02-25 19:14 +0000
                                  Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-02-25 20:42 +0100
                                    Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-25 21:32 +0000
                                      Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Ted Lee <tmplee@gmail.com> - 2014-02-25 17:12 -0600
                                      Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Ted Lee <tmplee@gmail.com> - 2014-02-25 17:24 -0600
                                        Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-26 02:38 +0000
                                          Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Ted Lee <tmplee@gmail.com> - 2014-02-25 21:03 -0600
                                            Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-26 04:19 +0000
                                            Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2014-02-28 11:29 -0500
                                              Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Ted Lee <tmplee@gmail.com> - 2014-02-28 12:48 -0600
                                        Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw billy@MIX.COM - 2014-02-26 01:44 +0000
                                      Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw billy@MIX.COM - 2014-02-25 21:59 +0000
                              Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-24 22:33 +0000
                                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-24 23:13 +0000
                          Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-24 17:45 -0500
                            Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-24 23:17 +0000
                              Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-24 18:28 -0500
                                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-02-24 23:16 -0500
                                  Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2014-02-24 21:17 -0800
                                    Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-02-25 21:03 +0100
                                  Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-02-25 21:00 +0100
                                    Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw billy@MIX.COM - 2014-02-25 22:02 +0000
                                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-25 08:11 +0000
                                  Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-25 16:47 +0000
                                  Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-02-25 17:03 -0500
                                    Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-25 19:45 -0500
                                      Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-02-26 00:05 -0500
                              Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-02-25 20:57 +0100
                                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2014-02-26 09:52 -0500
                                  Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-04-06 02:36 +0200
                        Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-02-24 21:24 +0100
                          Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-24 20:43 +0000
                        Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-24 17:40 -0500
                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-23 16:47 +0000
                  Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2014-02-23 15:37 -0800
                    Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-23 20:08 -0500
                      Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-24 01:15 +0000
                      Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2014-02-23 18:45 -0800
                        Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-24 02:52 +0000
                          Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2014-02-23 19:01 -0800
                          Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-24 04:23 +0000
                          Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-02-24 22:10 +0100
                            Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-24 22:21 +0000
                          Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-24 17:27 -0500
                        Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-24 17:27 -0500
                          Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2014-02-24 21:05 -0800
                            Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-25 19:34 -0500
                      Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-02-24 21:58 +0100
                        Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-24 18:04 -0500
                        Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw billy@MIX.COM - 2014-02-25 02:44 +0000
                    Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-24 01:14 +0000
                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-24 04:11 +0000
                  Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-24 18:36 -0500
                    Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-25 08:20 +0000
                      Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-25 17:00 +0000
                        Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-25 20:05 +0000
                          Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-25 21:31 +0000
                            Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2014-02-25 19:13 -0800
                              Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-26 04:35 +0000
                                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw billy@MIX.COM - 2014-02-26 06:42 +0000
                                  Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-01 21:57 +0000
                              Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-26 23:29 +0000
                                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2014-04-13 15:06 -0400
                                  Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> - 2014-04-13 21:11 +0000
                                    Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2014-04-15 17:03 -0400
                                  Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-04-16 09:29 +1200
                        Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-25 19:29 -0500
                          Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Bill Findlay <yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2014-02-26 00:49 +0000
                            Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-25 19:59 -0500
                              Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Bill Findlay <yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2014-02-26 02:03 +0000
                                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-25 22:13 -0500
                                  Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Bill Findlay <yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2014-02-26 14:03 +0000
                                  Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-26 23:42 +0000
                                    Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-27 17:03 -0500
                              Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-26 02:47 +0000
                                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-02-26 00:10 -0500
                                  Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2014-04-13 15:11 -0400
                                    Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-04-13 15:43 -0400
                          Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-26 02:42 +0000
                          Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2014-04-13 15:08 -0400
                            Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-04-13 15:41 -0400
                      Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-25 19:18 -0500
                        Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-26 23:39 +0000
                          Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-27 17:09 -0500
              Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-23 13:03 -0500
            Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Bill Findlay <yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2014-02-23 01:32 +0000
              Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-23 10:07 -0500
              Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-04-06 02:44 +0200
        Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-02-22 17:49 -0500
          Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-22 19:07 -0500
            Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-02-22 22:23 -0500
              Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-23 03:49 +0000
                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-23 10:12 -0500
                  Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-23 16:42 +0000
                  Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-02-23 14:38 -0500
              Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-23 10:11 -0500
              Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-02-23 14:38 -0500
              Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jim Gibson <jimsgibson@gmail.com> - 2014-02-24 10:42 -0800
                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-02-24 17:07 -0500
          Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2014-02-22 23:01 -0800
            Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-02-23 14:38 -0500
              Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw billy@MIX.COM - 2014-02-24 01:46 +0000
                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-01 21:52 +0000
                  Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-02 00:05 -0500
            Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-02-24 22:24 +0100
        Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw mcarels@xs4all.nl (Maarten Carels) - 2014-02-24 10:43 +0100
          Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-24 18:39 -0500
          Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-24 19:16 -0500
    Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-22 14:18 -0500
      Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2014-02-22 13:43 -0600
        Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-22 14:52 -0500
      Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2014-02-22 20:05 +0000
        Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-22 15:16 -0500
          Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2014-02-22 21:10 +0000
            Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-22 16:25 -0500
              Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2014-02-22 22:13 +0000
                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-22 22:19 +0000
                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-22 18:55 -0500
                  Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2014-02-23 09:38 +0000
                    Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-23 10:17 -0500
                      Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2014-02-23 15:42 +0000
                        Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-23 10:45 -0500
                          Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2014-02-23 17:09 +0000
                            Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-23 13:51 -0500
                              Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2014-02-23 20:07 +0000
                                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-23 15:14 -0500
                                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-23 15:20 -0500
                              Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw billy@MIX.COM - 2014-02-24 02:18 +0000
          Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-02-22 17:51 -0500
            Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-02-22 17:55 -0500
      Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-22 21:50 +0000
        Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-22 19:09 -0500
    Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-02-22 12:35 -0800
      Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-02-22 16:59 -0500
        Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-22 22:14 +0000
          Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-02-22 17:53 -0500
            Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-02-22 18:01 -0500
              Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-02-22 18:22 -0500
                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-02-22 18:29 -0500
            Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-22 23:33 +0000
              Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-02-23 18:23 -0500
                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-24 01:08 +0000
    Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-22 21:49 +0000
    Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2014-02-22 22:57 -0800
      Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-23 16:36 +0000
      Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-23 11:58 -0500
        Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-02-23 14:35 -0500
          Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-23 21:03 +0000
            Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-02-23 18:23 -0500
              Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-24 01:07 +0000
                Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw billy@MIX.COM - 2014-02-24 01:53 +0000
                  Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-01 21:53 +0000

Page 4 of 10 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 … 10  Next page →


#57020

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2014-02-24 23:17 +0000
Message-ID<bn228nFrogrU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#57013
On 2014-02-24, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2014.02.24, 00:04 , Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2014-02-24, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>> In message <ItGdnd5-bfmfB5fOnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@giganews.com>
>>>    Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>>   if bar(foo) then
>>>>     begin
>>>>       brat (tat);
>>>>       stat (a,v)
>>>>     end
>>>>   else
>>>>     faggetaboutit("I object!");
>>>
>>> Is how I would space that. However, that else is something I
>>> particularly dislike. That, to me, is terrible obtuse code.
>>>
>>>    if bar(foo) {
>>>      brat(tat);
>>>      stat(a,v);
>>>    } else {
>>>      faggetaboutit("I object!");
>>>    }
>>>
>>> That is much clearer and more concise that the code above.
>>>
>>> I don't like putting {'s on empty lines for no reason, but the last
>>> close bracket matches up the else and if showing the block has ended.
>>>
>>> That said, I can't stand writing in python because of its reliance of
>>> using white space for block control. That seems like the stupidest idea
>>> any language designer ever had.
>>
>> White space isn't the enemy. Far from it.
>
> As structure guidance for the compiler it sure is ...

Most compilers are designed to ignore white space. Hardly an enemy!

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#57024

FromAlan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca>
Date2014-02-24 18:28 -0500
Message-ID<FbWdndp-x-csSJbOnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#57020
On 2014.02.24, 18:17 , Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2014-02-24, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2014.02.24, 00:04 , Jolly Roger wrote:
>>> On 2014-02-24, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>>> In message <ItGdnd5-bfmfB5fOnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@giganews.com>
>>>>     Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>>>    if bar(foo) then
>>>>>      begin
>>>>>        brat (tat);
>>>>>        stat (a,v)
>>>>>      end
>>>>>    else
>>>>>      faggetaboutit("I object!");
>>>>
>>>> Is how I would space that. However, that else is something I
>>>> particularly dislike. That, to me, is terrible obtuse code.
>>>>
>>>>     if bar(foo) {
>>>>       brat(tat);
>>>>       stat(a,v);
>>>>     } else {
>>>>       faggetaboutit("I object!");
>>>>     }
>>>>
>>>> That is much clearer and more concise that the code above.
>>>>
>>>> I don't like putting {'s on empty lines for no reason, but the last
>>>> close bracket matches up the else and if showing the block has ended.
>>>>
>>>> That said, I can't stand writing in python because of its reliance of
>>>> using white space for block control. That seems like the stupidest idea
>>>> any language designer ever had.
>>>
>>> White space isn't the enemy. Far from it.
>>
>> As structure guidance for the compiler it sure is ...
>
> Most compilers are designed to ignore white space. Hardly an enemy!

Exactly. What Lewis is complaining about is that the white space 
influences the block control in python.

And it has its defenders ...

http://www.secnetix.de/olli/Python/block_indentation.hawk

-- 
   Those who have reduced our privacy, whether they are state
   or commercial actors, prefer that we do not reduce theirs.
                  - Jaron Lanier, Scientific American, 2013.11.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#57046

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2014-02-24 23:16 -0500
Message-ID<530c1925$0$61210$c3e8da3$5e5e430d@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#57024
On 14-02-24 18:28, Alan Browne wrote:

> Exactly. What Lewis is complaining about is that the white space 
> influences the block control in python.


Gets worse when you work on a good old terminal with white text on black
background since there is no white space, only black space :-)

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#57049

FromDon Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net>
Date2014-02-24 21:17 -0800
Message-ID<leh91i$sa$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#57046
In article <530c1925$0$61210$c3e8da3$5e5e430d@news.astraweb.com>,
 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> On 14-02-24 18:28, Alan Browne wrote:
> 
> > Exactly. What Lewis is complaining about is that the white space 
> > influences the block control in python.
> 
> 
> Gets worse when you work on a good old terminal with white text on black
> background since there is no white space, only black space :-)

Quick! Somebody swat his nose with a rolled up newspaper! I'd do it 
myself, but my arm isn't long enough.

(Next, he'll be bringing up amber monitors... :-P )

-- 
Security provided by Mssrs Smith and/or Wesson. Brought to you by the letter Q

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#57083

FromPaul Sture <nospam@sture.ch>
Date2014-02-25 21:03 +0100
Message-ID<5i9vta-au71.ln1@news.chingola.ch>
In reply to#57049
On 2014-02-25, Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> wrote:
> In article <530c1925$0$61210$c3e8da3$5e5e430d@news.astraweb.com>,
>  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 14-02-24 18:28, Alan Browne wrote:
>> 
>> > Exactly. What Lewis is complaining about is that the white space 
>> > influences the block control in python.
>> 
>> 
>> Gets worse when you work on a good old terminal with white text on black
>> background since there is no white space, only black space :-)
>
> Quick! Somebody swat his nose with a rolled up newspaper! I'd do it 
> myself, but my arm isn't long enough.
>
> (Next, he'll be bringing up amber monitors... :-P )

Some of those were awful, but the worst combination I came across was best
described as "puke on bile", and that name stuck.

Fortunately we only had one of those and when the one guy who liked it
left, it got "forgotten" in an office move.

-- 
Paul Sture

How many Linux users does it take to change a lightbulb? 20. 1 to change it
and 19 others to install new sockets do it their own way.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#57082

FromPaul Sture <nospam@sture.ch>
Date2014-02-25 21:00 +0100
Message-ID<gc9vta-au71.ln1@news.chingola.ch>
In reply to#57046
On 2014-02-25, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 14-02-24 18:28, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>> Exactly. What Lewis is complaining about is that the white space 
>> influences the block control in python.
>
>
> Gets worse when you work on a good old terminal with white text on black
> background since there is no white space, only black space :-)

This is where a bit of creative thinking helps.

I run Terminal as black on white and iTerm as white on black, so I can
choose the one appropriate for the job :-)

-- 
Paul Sture

How many Linux users does it take to change a lightbulb? 20. 1 to change it
and 19 others to install new sockets do it their own way.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#57311

Frombilly@MIX.COM
Date2014-02-25 22:02 +0000
Message-ID<lej3tn$re7$2@reader2.panix.com>
In reply to#57082
Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> writes:

> I run Terminal as black on white and iTerm as white on black, so I can
> choose the one appropriate for the job :-)

I flip back and forth - when I get tired of one, I goto (heh) the other.

Back in the good old days (of CRTs) I ran a script that'd flip everyone's
terminals to the other mode over the weekends, to combat burn-in.  Worked
fairly well...

Billy Y..
-- 
        sub     #'9+1   ,r0             ; convert ascii byte
	add     #9.+1   ,r0             ; to an integer
	bcc     20$                     ; not a number

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#57056

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2014-02-25 08:11 +0000
Message-ID<slrnlgok1d.1jei.g.kreme@oswin.local>
In reply to#57024
In message <FbWdndp-x-csSJbOnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@giganews.com> 
  Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2014.02.24, 18:17 , Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2014-02-24, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>> On 2014.02.24, 00:04 , Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>> On 2014-02-24, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>>>> In message <ItGdnd5-bfmfB5fOnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@giganews.com>
>>>>>     Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>    if bar(foo) then
>>>>>>      begin
>>>>>>        brat (tat);
>>>>>>        stat (a,v)
>>>>>>      end
>>>>>>    else
>>>>>>      faggetaboutit("I object!");
>>>>>
>>>>> Is how I would space that. However, that else is something I
>>>>> particularly dislike. That, to me, is terrible obtuse code.
>>>>>
>>>>>     if bar(foo) {
>>>>>       brat(tat);
>>>>>       stat(a,v);
>>>>>     } else {
>>>>>       faggetaboutit("I object!");
>>>>>     }
>>>>>
>>>>> That is much clearer and more concise that the code above.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't like putting {'s on empty lines for no reason, but the last
>>>>> close bracket matches up the else and if showing the block has ended.
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, I can't stand writing in python because of its reliance of
>>>>> using white space for block control. That seems like the stupidest idea
>>>>> any language designer ever had.
>>>>
>>>> White space isn't the enemy. Far from it.
>>>
>>> As structure guidance for the compiler it sure is ...
>>
>> Most compilers are designed to ignore white space. Hardly an enemy!

> Exactly. What Lewis is complaining about is that the white space 
> influences the block control in python.

> And it has its defenders ...

> http://www.secnetix.de/olli/Python/block_indentation.hawk

Someone got a bug up their ass about having a character pair that
clearly and explicitly delimits a logical block and decided to write a
language with the sole intent of not using that character pair.

"Of course, you could resort to always use braces, no matter what, but
that's tiresome and bloats the source code, and it doesn't prevent you
from accidentally obfuscating the code by still having the wrong
indentation."

"Tiresome" and "bloats the source code" are meaningless value
statements. A single { characer is much less 'bloat' than having to
indent 16 spaces to get 4 levels deep.

To me, having explicit delimiters for a block is clear, much more clear
than simply relying on white space indentation. It's trivial to compose
a perfectly valid bit of python code where it's very difficult to see
where the logic is unless you use something >=4 spaces, and then the
code marches off the right side of the editor quite quickly (especially
if you accept the python default of *eight* spaces per tab.

On mixing tabs and spaces:

"If you move a piece of C source to an editor with different tabstops,
it will all look wrong (and possibly behave differently than it looks at
first sight)."

This last part is pure FUD. The code will NOT magically change, but if
you mix tabs and spaces in Python, the code *will* break. This is
considered a "feature". Asshats. Paste in some code from a different
file and break your program for no apparent reason. Good plan, you
numpty morons.

Don't get me started on Python, I can go on for hours on how utterly
stupid the syntax requirements are, though really, the URL you pasted is
all the evidence anyone needs.

-- 
There's nothing to do, so you just stay in bed [ah, poor thing] Why live
in the world when you can live in your head?

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#57070

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2014-02-25 16:47 +0000
Message-ID<bn3vobF96u7U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#57056
On 2014-02-25, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <FbWdndp-x-csSJbOnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@giganews.com> 
>   Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2014.02.24, 18:17 , Jolly Roger wrote:
>>> On 2014-02-24, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Exactly. What Lewis is complaining about is that the white space 
>> influences the block control in python.
>
>> And it has its defenders ...
>
>> http://www.secnetix.de/olli/Python/block_indentation.hawk
>
> Someone got a bug up their ass about having a character pair that
> clearly and explicitly delimits a logical block and decided to write a
> language with the sole intent of not using that character pair.
>
> "Of course, you could resort to always use braces, no matter what, but
> that's tiresome and bloats the source code, and it doesn't prevent you
> from accidentally obfuscating the code by still having the wrong
> indentation."
>
> "Tiresome" and "bloats the source code" are meaningless value
> statements. A single { characer is much less 'bloat' than having to
> indent 16 spaces to get 4 levels deep.

That's my take on it as well. Python seems to enjoy making a point of
being a total bitch to developers just to prove a very silly point.

> To me, having explicit delimiters for a block is clear, much more clear
> than simply relying on white space indentation. It's trivial to compose
> a perfectly valid bit of python code where it's very difficult to see
> where the logic is unless you use something >=4 spaces, and then the
> code marches off the right side of the editor quite quickly (especially
> if you accept the python default of *eight* spaces per tab.

It ain't just to you... : ) There's no getting around the fact that
Python is just plain fucking ugly and problematic in this respect.
"Oops, I forgot to indent that %$*@ section" is one of the most common
complaints during debugging sessions because of it. It's always been a
complete turn-off for me. No thanks!

> On mixing tabs and spaces:
>
> "If you move a piece of C source to an editor with different tabstops,
> it will all look wrong (and possibly behave differently than it looks at
> first sight)."
>
> This last part is pure FUD. The code will NOT magically change, but if
> you mix tabs and spaces in Python, the code *will* break. This is
> considered a "feature". Asshats. Paste in some code from a different
> file and break your program for no apparent reason. Good plan, you
> numpty morons.

I and the developers with whom I work use a variety of editors with
tabbed C, XSL, Java, and so on all the time without such manufactured
"issues". FUD indeed.

> Don't get me started on Python, I can go on for hours on how utterly
> stupid the syntax requirements are, though really, the URL you pasted is
> all the evidence anyone needs.

I generally refuse to touch Python code. I have better things to do with
my life. 

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#57088

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2014-02-25 17:03 -0500
Message-ID<530d133a$0$47876$c3e8da3$5d8fb80f@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#57056
On 14-02-25 03:11, Lewis wrote:

> Someone got a bug up their ass about having a character pair that
> clearly and explicitly delimits a logical block and decided to write a
> language with the sole intent of not using that character pair.

Remember that the ASCII set has limited number of such characters on a
keyboard. You don't want to force programmers to use convoluted keyboard
manoeuvers to generate such a character.

() used to enclose arguments to a subroutine call.
[] used to enclose index to an array

so that leaves {} to enclose blocks of code as a single unit.

And they ran out for comments, so they have double characters /* and */
to open and close comments.


Heck, PASCAL on a 3270 terminal (EBCDIC) lacked [] or {}, can't remember
which and they had convoluted double character to replace it.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#57099

FromAlan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca>
Date2014-02-25 19:45 -0500
Message-ID<W8idnSWpdtCQpJDOnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#57088
On 2014.02.25, 17:03 , JF Mezei wrote:
> On 14-02-25 03:11, Lewis wrote:
>
>> Someone got a bug up their ass about having a character pair that
>> clearly and explicitly delimits a logical block and decided to write a
>> language with the sole intent of not using that character pair.
>
> Remember that the ASCII set has limited number of such characters on a
> keyboard. You don't want to force programmers to use convoluted keyboard
> manoeuvers to generate such a character.
>
> () used to enclose arguments to a subroutine call.
> [] used to enclose index to an array
>
> so that leaves {} to enclose blocks of code as a single unit.
>
> And they ran out for comments, so they have double characters /* and */
> to open and close comments.
>
>
> Heck, PASCAL on a 3270 terminal (EBCDIC) lacked [] or {}, can't remember
> which and they had convoluted double character to replace it.

In standard Pascal you enclose comments in { } or between (*     *). 
The later perhaps for keyboards w/o {}

In newer Pascal, such as fpc, you can use //

	a := a + 1;		// this is not algebra.
	a := a - a;		{Back where we were}

In assembler there were many variations from blank lines, to the letter 
C in the first column to ; ...

FORTRAN I seem to recall ! as the beginning of a comment.


-- 
   Those who have reduced our privacy, whether they are state
   or commercial actors, prefer that we do not reduce theirs.
                  - Jaron Lanier, Scientific American, 2013.11.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#57124

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2014-02-26 00:05 -0500
Message-ID<530d7624$0$59826$c3e8da3$e074e489@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#57099
On 14-02-25 19:45, Alan Browne wrote:

> In standard Pascal you enclose comments in { } or between (*     *). 
> The later perhaps for keyboards w/o {}

That was it. But for IBM systems, it wasn't the lack of {} on a
keyboard, it was the lack of {} in the EBCDIC character set.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#57081

FromPaul Sture <nospam@sture.ch>
Date2014-02-25 20:57 +0100
Message-ID<279vta-au71.ln1@news.chingola.ch>
In reply to#57020
On 2014-02-24, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2014-02-24, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2014.02.24, 00:04 , Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>
>>> White space isn't the enemy. Far from it.
>>
>> As structure guidance for the compiler it sure is ...
>
> Most compilers are designed to ignore white space. Hardly an enemy!

Dunno about modern FORTRAN, but the compilers I used stripped all the
non-quoted spaces from source lines before parsing them.

unlike the syntax of various other languages the delimiters and numeric
labels mean this can be done e.g.

        if (a .eq. b) x = y
        if (i .gt. j) goto 9999


-- 
Paul Sture

How many Linux users does it take to change a lightbulb? 20. 1 to change it
and 19 others to install new sockets do it their own way.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#57133

From"M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com>
Date2014-02-26 09:52 -0500
Message-ID<lekv2m$rgc$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#57081
On 2/25/14, 2:57 PM, Paul Sture wrote:
> Paul Sture
>
> How many Linux users does it take to change a lightbulb? 20. 1 to change it
> and 19 others to install new sockets do it their own way.
A funny sig but I think it's missing a "to"

  and 19 others to install new sockets "to" do it their own way.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#58345

FromPaul Sture <nospam@sture.ch>
Date2014-04-06 02:36 +0200
Message-ID<h5k61b-agd.ln1@news.chingola.ch>
In reply to#57133
On 2014-02-26, M. John Matlaw <nouser@invalid.com> wrote:
> On 2/25/14, 2:57 PM, Paul Sture wrote:
>> Paul Sture
>>
>> How many Linux users does it take to change a lightbulb? 20. 1 to change it
>> and 19 others to install new sockets do it their own way.
> A funny sig but I think it's missing a "to"
>
>   and 19 others to install new sockets "to" do it their own way.

Thanks for the correction.

-- 
Paul Sture

"In that case," said Napoleon, "let us wait twenty minutes; when the enemy
is making a false movement we must take good care not to interrupt him."

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56979

FromPaul Sture <nospam@sture.ch>
Date2014-02-24 21:24 +0100
Message-ID<ucmsta-3361.ln1@news.chingola.ch>
In reply to#56947
On 2014-02-24, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <ItGdnd5-bfmfB5fOnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@giganews.com> 
>   Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>  if bar(foo) then
>>    begin
>>      brat (tat);
>>      stat (a,v)
>>    end
>>  else
>>    faggetaboutit("I object!");
>
> Is how I would space that. However, that else is something I
> particularly dislike. That, to me, is terrible obtuse code.
>
>   if bar(foo) {
>     brat(tat);
>     stat(a,v);
>   } else {
>     faggetaboutit("I object!");
>   }
>
> That is much clearer and more concise that the code above.

but to me that } else { looks "too busy", by which I mean I have to  stop
and think what belongs where.  I prefer indenting by more than 2 spaces
at a time as well. but I come from a COBOL/FORTRAN environment where we
used the "tab source format" available in the DEC compilers, where tab
stops were at columns 9, 17, 25...  I would typically only drop to 4
spaces when dealing with enough levels of indentation to make fitting
it all into <80 characters on a dumb terminal, and that habit stuck for
many years after I started using X11.

> I don't like putting {'s on empty lines for no reason, but the last
> close bracket matches up the else and if showing the block has ended.
>
> That said, I can't stand writing in python because of its reliance of
> using white space for block control. That seems like the stupidest idea
> any language designer ever had.

If I'm using BBEdit for python I set tabs to be 4 spaces and switch on
the vertical tab stops.  Getting things aligned is dead easy with that.

-- 
Paul Sture

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56980

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2014-02-24 20:43 +0000
Message-ID<bn1p7oFpphcU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#56979
On 2014-02-24, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> wrote:
> On 2014-02-24, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> In message <ItGdnd5-bfmfB5fOnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@giganews.com> 
>>   Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>  if bar(foo) then
>>>    begin
>>>      brat (tat);
>>>      stat (a,v)
>>>    end
>>>  else
>>>    faggetaboutit("I object!");
>>
>> Is how I would space that. However, that else is something I
>> particularly dislike. That, to me, is terrible obtuse code.
>>
>>   if bar(foo) {
>>     brat(tat);
>>     stat(a,v);
>>   } else {
>>     faggetaboutit("I object!");
>>   }
>>
>> That is much clearer and more concise that the code above.
>
> but to me that } else { looks "too busy", by which I mean I have to  stop
> and think what belongs where. 

if
{
	foo = bar;
}
else
{
	bar = foo;
}

Is just easier to scan, which is why I prefer it, personally. White
space isn't the enemy. Code that is easier to scan and read is code that
is easier to maintain.

> I prefer indenting by more than 2 spaces at a time as well. but I come
> from a COBOL/FORTRAN environment where we used the "tab source format"
> available in the DEC compilers, where tab stops were at columns 9, 17,
> 25...  I would typically only drop to 4 spaces when dealing with
> enough levels of indentation to make fitting it all into <80
> characters on a dumb terminal, and that habit stuck for many years
> after I started using X11.

I *always* use tab characters for indents, because tab spacing can be
adjusted to your own individual preferences.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#57010

FromAlan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca>
Date2014-02-24 17:40 -0500
Message-ID<Ls-dnXM1lJPtV5bOnZ2dnUVZ_oOdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#56947
On 2014.02.23, 23:21 , Lewis wrote:
> In message <ItGdnd5-bfmfB5fOnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@giganews.com>
>    Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>   if bar(foo) then
>>     begin
>>       brat (tat);
>>       stat (a,v)
>>     end
>>   else
>>     faggetaboutit("I object!");
>
> Is how I would space that. However, that else is something I
> particularly dislike. That, to me, is terrible obtuse code.
>
>    if bar(foo) {
>      brat(tat);
>      stat(a,v);
>    } else {
>      faggetaboutit("I object!");
>    }
>
> That is much clearer and more concise that the code above.

To you, perhaps.  To me the curlies are just an awful, ugly way to mark 
code blocks.  Of course in Pascal (etc) you can also use

BEGIN
    Begin

    End;
END;


>
> I don't like putting {'s on empty lines for no reason, but the last
> close bracket matches up the else and if showing the block has ended.

My note above refers.    Though on re-look I would have moved everything 
below the if line (in my block) in a couple more spaces.

> That said, I can't stand writing in python because of its reliance of
> using white space for block control. That seems like the stupidest idea
> any language designer ever had.

Does it really?  Ouch.

-- 
    ... it may be that "in the cloud" really isn't the best term
    for the services these companies offer.  What they really
    want is to have us "on the leash."
                   -David Pogue, Scientific American, 2014.02

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#56901

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2014-02-23 16:47 +0000
Message-ID<bmun0vF59p1U4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#56895
On 2014-02-23, Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> wrote:
> In article <bmsu50Fnr6sU2@mid.individual.net>,
>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2014-02-23, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>> > On 2014.02.22, 16:30 , Jolly Roger wrote:
>> >> On 2014-02-22, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>> >>> On 2014.02.22, 14:15 , nospam wrote:
>> >>>> In article <lears8$l8d$1@dont-email.me>, Ted Lee
>> >>>> <tmplee@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> The press and gossip rag reports say the recently discovered
>> >>>>> security flaw with SSL is present in both IOS and OS X.  The
>> >>>>> patch for IOS showed up last night.  The reports say the OS X
>> >>>>> one will be out soon.  Has anyone run across a technically
>> >>>>> competent (as opposed to sensationalized fear-mongering amateur
>> >>>>> drivel) discussion of the flaw *and* a conclusive statement
>> >>>>> that it is indeed present in OS X?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> it is in os x, and it's nothing more than an extra goto.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> <https://www.imperialviolet.org/2014/02/22/applebug.html>
>> >>>
>> >>> ROFL.
>> >>>
>> >>> goto has always been a source of low software quality - and it
>> >>> rears its head again here - although it looks more like sloppy
>> >>> editing than anything else - like another line of condition code
>> >>> had been deleted or moved.
>> >>
>> >> Indeed. And as John Gruber (Daring Fireball) asserted, the
>> >> practice of using curly braces for if blocks would have made the
>> >> slip-up much more obvious. I tend to prefer using braces in if
>> >> blocks myself.
>
> I tend toward "overkill unto the verge of paranoia" when bracing
> conditionals, for exactly that reason. Even though I'm quite aware
> that "if (foo) bar(foo);" is perfectly valid code that'll compile
> without so much as a hiccup, if I'm coding something that needs that
> sort of construct, I'm most likely going to write it as
> if (foo)
>   {
>     bar(foo);
>   }
> else
>   {
>     // It's a bad idea to bar() a nil foo
>   }
> specifically to negate even the possibility of getting bit by that
> type of bug. Vertical space is cheap insurance :) 

Indeed! Like minds, there! (Only difference I tend not to indent th
braces themselves.) Not everyone has the discipline or interest to do
this. I am often praised for my code cleanliness and readability by
others. So there are obviously other benefits to adhering to strict best
practices like this.

>> > I tend to think curly braces suck as code block begin/ends.  ;-)
>> >
>> > {This was esp. so with dot matrix printers.  We didn't have no
>> > fancy colour editors either}
>> >
>> > What the hell is the matter with nice fat, 0 code producing BEGIN
>> > END statements, anyway?
>> >
>> > Ada.  Ah, Ada, why have you forsaken us and let C rule?
>> 
>> Right there with you. : ) I can appreciate shortened forms; but not
>> so much when they increase the likelihood of mistakes like this.
>> Pascal had BEGIN/END too.
>
> What? Never heard of 
> #define BEGIN {
> #define END }
> ?
> :)
>
> Years ago, those, and other similar "translation" macros, were exactly
> how I transitioned from Pascal to C. Then one day I noticed that the C
> must have "kicked in" - I'd been using "naked" C and forgetting to
> bother setting up or #include-ing the #defines for a while without
> even realizing it.

Haha! I did similar things during my transition! : D I'm glad I cut my
teeth on Pascal before moving to C/C++. I think it gave me an
appreciation for structure that I otherwise might not have attained.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#56926

FromDon Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net>
Date2014-02-23 15:37 -0800
Message-ID<lee0o1$p6s$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#56901
In article <bmun0vF59p1U4@mid.individual.net>,
 Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2014-02-23, Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> wrote:
> > In article <bmsu50Fnr6sU2@mid.individual.net>,
> >  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2014-02-23, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> >> > On 2014.02.22, 16:30 , Jolly Roger wrote:
> >> >> On 2014-02-22, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> >> >>> On 2014.02.22, 14:15 , nospam wrote:
> >> >>>> In article <lears8$l8d$1@dont-email.me>, Ted Lee
> >> >>>> <tmplee@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> The press and gossip rag reports say the recently discovered
> >> >>>>> security flaw with SSL is present in both IOS and OS X.  The
> >> >>>>> patch for IOS showed up last night.  The reports say the OS X
> >> >>>>> one will be out soon.  Has anyone run across a technically
> >> >>>>> competent (as opposed to sensationalized fear-mongering amateur
> >> >>>>> drivel) discussion of the flaw *and* a conclusive statement
> >> >>>>> that it is indeed present in OS X?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> it is in os x, and it's nothing more than an extra goto.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> <https://www.imperialviolet.org/2014/02/22/applebug.html>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> ROFL.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> goto has always been a source of low software quality - and it
> >> >>> rears its head again here - although it looks more like sloppy
> >> >>> editing than anything else - like another line of condition code
> >> >>> had been deleted or moved.
> >> >>
> >> >> Indeed. And as John Gruber (Daring Fireball) asserted, the
> >> >> practice of using curly braces for if blocks would have made the
> >> >> slip-up much more obvious. I tend to prefer using braces in if
> >> >> blocks myself.
> >
> > I tend toward "overkill unto the verge of paranoia" when bracing
> > conditionals, for exactly that reason. Even though I'm quite aware
> > that "if (foo) bar(foo);" is perfectly valid code that'll compile
> > without so much as a hiccup, if I'm coding something that needs that
> > sort of construct, I'm most likely going to write it as
> > if (foo)
> >   {
> >     bar(foo);
> >   }
> > else
> >   {
> >     // It's a bad idea to bar() a nil foo
> >   }
> > specifically to negate even the possibility of getting bit by that
> > type of bug. Vertical space is cheap insurance :) 
> 
> Indeed! Like minds, there! (Only difference I tend not to indent th
> braces themselves.) 

That's at least partly the product of the ridicule I took from the 
instructor when I turned in my first project in my first formal Pascal 
class - I didn't believe in indenting - PERIOD! So imagine 100 lines or 
so of Pascal without so much as a single indent to be seen *ANYWHERE*. 
After that, I started indenting every damned thing under the sun. Over 
time, I fell back to an indenting policy that's at least A LITTLE saner. 
:)

I couldn't help it - I was a roughly 16 year old self-taught "computer 
expert" who cut his programming teeth on a mix of TRS-80 Level I BASIC, 
Integer (and later Applesoft) BASIC, Z80 *MACHINE LANGUAGE* (not 
"assembler" - We're talking pure hex bytes arrived at through laborious 
lookups in the back of the book), 8080 assembler created by 
hand-translating pencil-and-paper source into hex and then punching it 
into the old MS-DOS DEBUG.COM program a byte at a time) and 6502 
assembler (using, at first, nothing but the built-in "mini-assembler" on 
the Apple II, eventually moving to the "LISA" assembler, and finally 
Merlin-Pro)

-- 
Security provided by Mssrs Smith and/or Wesson. Brought to you by the letter Q

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