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MacLINUX

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  MacLINUX Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> - 2014-01-17 18:31 -0500
    Re: MacLINUX JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-01-17 18:38 -0500
      Re: MacLINUX Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> - 2014-01-17 23:28 -0500
        Re: MacLINUX JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-01-18 00:18 -0500
    Re: MacLINUX Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-17 17:40 -0800
      Re: MacLINUX Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> - 2014-01-17 23:16 -0500
    Re: MacLINUX Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2014-01-17 22:37 -0800
      Re: MacLINUX isw <isw@witzend.com> - 2014-01-18 13:45 -0800
        Re: MacLINUX Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2014-01-18 17:01 -0800
        Re: MacLINUX Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-19 10:41 -0500
          Re: MacLINUX Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-19 18:58 +0000
    Re: MacLINUX Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-18 10:52 -0500
      Re: MacLINUX Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> - 2014-01-18 16:37 -0500
        Re: MacLINUX Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-01-18 14:35 -0800
          Re: MacLINUX Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-19 04:26 +0000
        Re: MacLINUX Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-19 01:54 +0000
        Re: MacLINUX Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-20 12:52 -0800
    Re: MacLINUX Barry OGrady <atheist@hotmail.com.au> - 2014-01-20 14:57 +1100
      Re: MacLINUX "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2014-01-20 04:54 +0000
        Re: MacLINUX Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-20 05:02 +0000
          Re: MacLINUX "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2014-01-20 09:34 +0000
            Re: MacLINUX Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-20 18:35 +0000
              Re: MacLINUX "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2014-01-20 19:19 +0000
                Re: MacLINUX Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-20 19:54 +0000
              Re: MacLINUX Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-01-20 13:13 -0800
                Re: MacLINUX Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-20 14:04 -0800
                  Re: MacLINUX Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-01-20 14:10 -0800
                    Re: MacLINUX Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-20 14:25 -0800
                  Re: MacLINUX Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> - 2014-01-20 18:38 -0500
                    Re: MacLINUX Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-20 16:45 -0800
                      Re: MacLINUX Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> - 2014-01-21 12:26 -0500
                        Re: MacLINUX Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-21 17:41 +0000
                          Re: MacLINUX Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-21 10:24 -0800
                            Re: MacLINUX Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-21 20:48 +0000
                              Re: MacLINUX Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-21 12:55 -0800
                                Re: MacLINUX Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-21 21:20 +0000
                                  Re: MacLINUX Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-21 13:47 -0800
                                  Re: MacLINUX Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-01-22 02:22 -0800
                                    Re: MacLINUX Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-22 16:28 +0000
      Re: MacLINUX Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-20 05:01 +0000
    Re: MacLINUX "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2014-01-20 19:19 +0000
      Re: MacLINUX Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-20 19:55 +0000

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#54825 — MacLINUX

Although slightly off-topic, csms may be the best forum for this LINUX 
problem.

My new toy is a Raspberry Pi.  It runs Raspbian, a variation of Debian 
LINUX.  In order to learn more about LINUX, I am attempting to install 
Debian LINUX on a spare internal HD in a Mac Pro.

I have downloaded ISO disk images of Debian in four forms:  32 bit net 
install, 64 bit Gnome live desktop, 64 bit LXDE live desktop and a 
"Mini" version suggested at one website.

So far, all attempts to install have failed.  Using the rEFIt program, 
the newly installed LINUX HD appears, tries to boot but fails (no 
bootable device).

Except for the "Mini" CD which hangs up half way through the boot-up 
process, the CDs and DVDs all boot on the Mac.  It seems to me that this 
proves that Debian will work if I can only find the secret!

Can anyone tell me how to install a working Debian LINUX on my Mac Pro?  
(I did manage to install a bootable version of "Puppy LINUX".)

Fred

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#54826

On 14-01-17 18:31, Fred McKenzie wrote:

> So far, all attempts to install have failed.  Using the rEFIt program, 
> the newly installed LINUX HD appears, tries to boot but fails (no 
> bootable device).

Not familiar with the peculiarities of this, but remember that the Mac
has a highly customized EFI firmware.  So you have to make sure that
when you load the Linux HD, you setup the GPT partition and possibly
have to load a linux boot EFI program in that partition.

While the MAC EFI has added logic to parse through an HFS volume to find
the boot file, it may require a standard EFI program to let it parse
through a Linux disk to find its boot file/block.

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#54849

In article <52d9bef2$0$7163$c3e8da3$76a7c58f@news.astraweb.com>,
 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> Not familiar with the peculiarities of this, but remember that the Mac
> has a highly customized EFI firmware.  So you have to make sure that
> when you load the Linux HD, you setup the GPT partition and possibly
> have to load a linux boot EFI program in that partition.

JF-

Would that LINUX Boot EFI program be the Grub software?

I have tried several ways to partition the HD.  My apparent best results 
have been when I first created a single partition on the Mac and then 
deleted it.  I let the LINUX installation program determine its 
preferred partitioning scheme.

At first I thought the problem was that a "boot" flag had not been set.  
Setting the flag does not appear to make a difference.

Fred

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#54853

On 14-01-17 23:28, Fred McKenzie wrote:

> Would that LINUX Boot EFI program be the Grub software?

I have no idea. I did ask my buddy Mr Google and one page it found:

http://www.tuxation.com/linux-on-mac.html

seems to provide a good explanation of steps to do.   You need to end up
with a .efi file in the EFI partition on the drive you are booting from.
that .efi file contains information/code that lets you boot onto the
right partition.

(eg: some efi code that understand the linux file structure and can find
the boot file/block on the specifci partition, as well as the config
that tells it which partition to boot from).


> 

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#54840

Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> writes:

> Although slightly off-topic, csms may be the best forum for this LINUX 
> problem.
> 
> My new toy is a Raspberry Pi.  It runs Raspbian, a variation of Debian 
> LINUX.  In order to learn more about LINUX, I am attempting to install 
> Debian LINUX on a spare internal HD in a Mac Pro.
> 
> I have downloaded ISO disk images of Debian in four forms:  32 bit net 
> install, 64 bit Gnome live desktop, 64 bit LXDE live desktop and a 
> "Mini" version suggested at one website.
> 
> So far, all attempts to install have failed.  Using the rEFIt program, 
> the newly installed LINUX HD appears, tries to boot but fails (no 
> bootable device).
> 
> Except for the "Mini" CD which hangs up half way through the boot-up 
> process, the CDs and DVDs all boot on the Mac.  It seems to me that this 
> proves that Debian will work if I can only find the secret!
> 
> Can anyone tell me how to install a working Debian LINUX on my Mac Pro?  
> (I did manage to install a bootable version of "Puppy LINUX".)

I've done this using rEFIt and a live DVD (which contained the Ubuntu
variant of Debian and some other software).

http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/try-ubuntu-before-you-install

The live DVD allows you to skip the rEFIt step the first time, though
you'll still need to get rEFIt working in order to boot from a disk.

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#54847

In article <h5sismvzib.fsf@ethel.the.log>,
 Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> wrote:

> I've done this using rEFIt and a live DVD (which contained the Ubuntu
> variant of Debian and some other software).
> 
> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/try-ubuntu-before-you-install
> 
> The live DVD allows you to skip the rEFIt step the first time, though
> you'll still need to get rEFIt working in order to boot from a disk.

Doug-

I think rEFIt is working.  There was a command issued in the Mac 
Terminal program that was supposed to make it work.  It is able to see 
the installed LINUX system and lets me select that HD.  I'll try to find 
the Terminal command and do it again, in case that is the problem.

I have two "Live" disks for Debian (Gnome and LXDE).  They each appear 
to install correctly when I choose the direct installation option.  When 
choosing the Live option and then running the install program, it fails 
when it tries to install the Grub software.

I found several websites that talked about installing Ubuntu.  I did not 
realize it was a variant of Debian.  I am hoping to end up with an 
installation on the Mac that resembles Raspberry Pi's Raspbian.

Fred

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#54854

In article <fmmck-D35046.18311417012014@5ad64b5e.bb.sky.com>,
 Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> wrote:

> Although slightly off-topic, csms may be the best forum for this LINUX 
> problem.
> 
> My new toy is a Raspberry Pi.  It runs Raspbian, a variation of Debian 
> LINUX.  In order to learn more about LINUX, I am attempting to install 
> Debian LINUX on a spare internal HD in a Mac Pro.
> 
> I have downloaded ISO disk images of Debian in four forms:  32 bit net 
> install, 64 bit Gnome live desktop, 64 bit LXDE live desktop and a 
> "Mini" version suggested at one website.
> 
> So far, all attempts to install have failed.  Using the rEFIt program, 
> the newly installed LINUX HD appears, tries to boot but fails (no 
> bootable device).
> 
> Except for the "Mini" CD which hangs up half way through the boot-up 
> process, the CDs and DVDs all boot on the Mac.  It seems to me that this 
> proves that Debian will work if I can only find the secret!
> 
> Can anyone tell me how to install a working Debian LINUX on my Mac Pro?  
> (I did manage to install a bootable version of "Puppy LINUX".)
> 
> Fred

You can easily run Debian in a VM, like VirtualBox.  The VM is 
preferable if you plan to mess with the operating system because you can 
always escape up one level for repairs.  It's not so great for 
application development because of the performance overhead.

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#54911

In article 
<mcmurtrie-A0EC20.22375317012014@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
 Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> wrote:

> In article <fmmck-D35046.18311417012014@5ad64b5e.bb.sky.com>,
>  Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> wrote:
> 
> > Although slightly off-topic, csms may be the best forum for this LINUX 
> > problem.
> > 
> > My new toy is a Raspberry Pi.  It runs Raspbian, a variation of Debian 
> > LINUX.  In order to learn more about LINUX, I am attempting to install 
> > Debian LINUX on a spare internal HD in a Mac Pro.
> > 
> > I have downloaded ISO disk images of Debian in four forms:  32 bit net 
> > install, 64 bit Gnome live desktop, 64 bit LXDE live desktop and a 
> > "Mini" version suggested at one website.
> > 
> > So far, all attempts to install have failed.  Using the rEFIt program, 
> > the newly installed LINUX HD appears, tries to boot but fails (no 
> > bootable device).
> > 
> > Except for the "Mini" CD which hangs up half way through the boot-up 
> > process, the CDs and DVDs all boot on the Mac.  It seems to me that this 
> > proves that Debian will work if I can only find the secret!
> > 
> > Can anyone tell me how to install a working Debian LINUX on my Mac Pro?  
> > (I did manage to install a bootable version of "Puppy LINUX".)
> > 
> > Fred
> 
> You can easily run Debian in a VM, like VirtualBox.  The VM is 
> preferable if you plan to mess with the operating system because you can 
> always escape up one level for repairs.  It's not so great for 
> application development because of the performance overhead.

Just out of curiosity, how much of a hit does something like VB impose? 
Do things take twice as long? 5% longer? Or what??

Isaac

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#54934

In article <isw-C2C829.13451918012014@[216.168.3.50]>,
 isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:

> In article 
> <mcmurtrie-A0EC20.22375317012014@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
>  Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> wrote:
> 
> > In article <fmmck-D35046.18311417012014@5ad64b5e.bb.sky.com>,
> >  Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > Although slightly off-topic, csms may be the best forum for this LINUX 
> > > problem.
> > > 
> > > My new toy is a Raspberry Pi.  It runs Raspbian, a variation of Debian 
> > > LINUX.  In order to learn more about LINUX, I am attempting to install 
> > > Debian LINUX on a spare internal HD in a Mac Pro.
> > > 
> > > I have downloaded ISO disk images of Debian in four forms:  32 bit net 
> > > install, 64 bit Gnome live desktop, 64 bit LXDE live desktop and a 
> > > "Mini" version suggested at one website.
> > > 
> > > So far, all attempts to install have failed.  Using the rEFIt program, 
> > > the newly installed LINUX HD appears, tries to boot but fails (no 
> > > bootable device).
> > > 
> > > Except for the "Mini" CD which hangs up half way through the boot-up 
> > > process, the CDs and DVDs all boot on the Mac.  It seems to me that this 
> > > proves that Debian will work if I can only find the secret!
> > > 
> > > Can anyone tell me how to install a working Debian LINUX on my Mac Pro?  
> > > (I did manage to install a bootable version of "Puppy LINUX".)
> > > 
> > > Fred
> > 
> > You can easily run Debian in a VM, like VirtualBox.  The VM is 
> > preferable if you plan to mess with the operating system because you can 
> > always escape up one level for repairs.  It's not so great for 
> > application development because of the performance overhead.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, how much of a hit does something like VB impose? 
> Do things take twice as long? 5% longer? Or what??
> 
> Isaac

I haven't used it in a while.  The problem is that resources aren't 
shared efficiently between the native and virtual VM so using MacOS and 
the VM at the same time needs a lot of RAM and CPU.  MacOS is also 
gaining a considerable amount of bloat and it hasn't been performance 
tuned enough to compensate.

The best thing to do would be to try it.  VirtualBox is free and trivial 
to set up.

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#54959

On 2014.01.18, 16:45 , isw wrote:
> In article
> <mcmurtrie-A0EC20.22375317012014@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
>   Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> wrote:
>
>> In article <fmmck-D35046.18311417012014@5ad64b5e.bb.sky.com>,
>>   Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Although slightly off-topic, csms may be the best forum for this LINUX
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> My new toy is a Raspberry Pi.  It runs Raspbian, a variation of Debian
>>> LINUX.  In order to learn more about LINUX, I am attempting to install
>>> Debian LINUX on a spare internal HD in a Mac Pro.
>>>
>>> I have downloaded ISO disk images of Debian in four forms:  32 bit net
>>> install, 64 bit Gnome live desktop, 64 bit LXDE live desktop and a
>>> "Mini" version suggested at one website.
>>>
>>> So far, all attempts to install have failed.  Using the rEFIt program,
>>> the newly installed LINUX HD appears, tries to boot but fails (no
>>> bootable device).
>>>
>>> Except for the "Mini" CD which hangs up half way through the boot-up
>>> process, the CDs and DVDs all boot on the Mac.  It seems to me that this
>>> proves that Debian will work if I can only find the secret!
>>>
>>> Can anyone tell me how to install a working Debian LINUX on my Mac Pro?
>>> (I did manage to install a bootable version of "Puppy LINUX".)
>>>
>>> Fred
>>
>> You can easily run Debian in a VM, like VirtualBox.  The VM is
>> preferable if you plan to mess with the operating system because you can
>> always escape up one level for repairs.  It's not so great for
>> application development because of the performance overhead.
>
> Just out of curiosity, how much of a hit does something like VB impose?
> Do things take twice as long? 5% longer? Or what??

With VMWare Fusion, on a 2 core machine, you'd hardly know it was 
virtualized - less than 10% for sure - possibly less than 1 - 2%. 
Really - the guest OS is running on the metal directly most of the time.

-- 
“Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.”
                                                   - Mike Tyson

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#54980

On 2014-01-19, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2014.01.18, 16:45 , isw wrote:
>>
>> Just out of curiosity, how much of a hit does something like VB impose?
>> Do things take twice as long? 5% longer? Or what??
>
> With VMWare Fusion, on a 2 core machine, you'd hardly know it was 
> virtualized - less than 10% for sure - possibly less than 1 - 2%. 
> Really - the guest OS is running on the metal directly most of the time.

Yup, that's been my experience as well, with both VMWare and Parallels
solutions, during the course of the past decade, with various versions
of Windows and Linux. The performance hit is negligible for everything
but 3D rendering and real-time A/V applications.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#54869

On 2014.01.17, 18:31 , Fred McKenzie wrote:
> Although slightly off-topic, csms may be the best forum for this LINUX
> problem.
>
> My new toy is a Raspberry Pi.  It runs Raspbian, a variation of Debian
> LINUX.  In order to learn more about LINUX, I am attempting to install
> Debian LINUX on a spare internal HD in a Mac Pro.
>
> I have downloaded ISO disk images of Debian in four forms:  32 bit net
> install, 64 bit Gnome live desktop, 64 bit LXDE live desktop and a
> "Mini" version suggested at one website.
>
> So far, all attempts to install have failed.  Using the rEFIt program,
> the newly installed LINUX HD appears, tries to boot but fails (no
> bootable device).
>
> Except for the "Mini" CD which hangs up half way through the boot-up
> process, the CDs and DVDs all boot on the Mac.  It seems to me that this
> proves that Debian will work if I can only find the secret!
>
> Can anyone tell me how to install a working Debian LINUX on my Mac Pro?
> (I did manage to install a bootable version of "Puppy LINUX".)

I haven't tried Debian so can't help you with the specifics.  But a 
thought about experimenting with other OS' on a Mac:

The "best" way IMO is under a virtualizer such as VMWare Fusion or 
Parallels.  That way your computer isn't "out of service" while you 
tinker with Linux.

As a general purpose tinker Linux, Ubuntu is quite popular (and there 
are many more of course).  You DL the 64 b version (marked as "AMD" just 
to make things confusing) burn as an ISO and then install.  (There may 
be a way to avoid burning a DVD or loading it onto a stick...)

Of course you can use any distro of Linux that you like.


-- 
“Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.”
                                                   - Mike Tyson

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#54908

In article <0t2dnXvC2JHPPkfPnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
 Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> I haven't tried Debian so can't help you with the specifics.  But a 
> thought about experimenting with other OS' on a Mac:
> 
> The "best" way IMO is under a virtualizer such as VMWare Fusion or 
> Parallels.  That way your computer isn't "out of service" while you 
> tinker with Linux.
> 
> As a general purpose tinker Linux, Ubuntu is quite popular (and there 
> are many more of course).  You DL the 64 b version (marked as "AMD" just 
> to make things confusing) burn as an ISO and then install.  (There may 
> be a way to avoid burning a DVD or loading it onto a stick...)
> 
> Of course you can use any distro of Linux that you like.

This project has turned out to be more difficult than expected!  Rather 
than fussing with a virtualizer, I purchased another HD for the 4th slot 
in the Mac Pro.  I have older versions of Parallels and Fusion but got 
tired of them wanting an upgrade fee each time OS X was updated.

So far I have been burning CDs and DVDs from ISO files using Disk 
Utility.  I tried to restore an ISO to a thumb drive, but it did not 
work.

Doug Anderson mentioned use of rEFIt.  I found that I had missed a step.  
Now booting from LINUX just hangs up without an error message, but the 
LINUX HD shows up as two drives!  I think I have a partition problem.

The article that JF Mezei referenced appears to discuss the kind of 
problem I'm having.  I'll study it and see if it has the answer I'm 
looking for.

Thanks to all for the good advice.

Fred

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#54922

In article <fmmck-5A1C2F.16374118012014@5ad64b5e.bb.sky.com>,
 Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> wrote:

> In article <0t2dnXvC2JHPPkfPnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>  Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> 
> > I haven't tried Debian so can't help you with the specifics.  But a 
> > thought about experimenting with other OS' on a Mac:
> > 
> > The "best" way IMO is under a virtualizer such as VMWare Fusion or 
> > Parallels.  That way your computer isn't "out of service" while you 
> > tinker with Linux.
> > 
> > As a general purpose tinker Linux, Ubuntu is quite popular (and there 
> > are many more of course).  You DL the 64 b version (marked as "AMD" just 
> > to make things confusing) burn as an ISO and then install.  (There may 
> > be a way to avoid burning a DVD or loading it onto a stick...)
> > 
> > Of course you can use any distro of Linux that you like.
> 
> This project has turned out to be more difficult than expected!  Rather 
> than fussing with a virtualizer, I purchased another HD for the 4th slot 
> in the Mac Pro.  I have older versions of Parallels and Fusion but got 
> tired of them wanting an upgrade fee each time OS X was updated.
> 
> So far I have been burning CDs and DVDs from ISO files using Disk 
> Utility.  I tried to restore an ISO to a thumb drive, but it did not 
> work.
> 
> Doug Anderson mentioned use of rEFIt.  I found that I had missed a step.  
> Now booting from LINUX just hangs up without an error message, but the 
> LINUX HD shows up as two drives!  I think I have a partition problem.
> 
> The article that JF Mezei referenced appears to discuss the kind of 
> problem I'm having.  I'll study it and see if it has the answer I'm 
> looking for.
> 
> Thanks to all for the good advice.
> 
> Fred

I found that most of Linux distros didn't install on my MacBookPro.  
Some of the distros LIVE CDs wouldn't even be recognized by the boot 
code.  I did find a couple that ran from the CD but none that would 
install and boot.

I attribute this to Apple's proprietary hardware and drivers needed to 
run things like Windows, which is why BootCamp has it's own drivers.  
Fusion and Parallels remove this layer and emulate generic X86 hardware.

To do Kickstart testing, I bought a recycled 486 with 1GB memory and 
10GB disk. It booted the network boot CD just fine and I was able to 
download Centos and Ubunto into it without a problem.

If you need a Linux laptop, I'd get a recycled or cheap PC and use that 
installed of trying to get around the Mac proprietary hardware.  Most 
instructions for getting Linux running assume a PC platform, not a Mac.

It's your time or your money. You choose.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

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#54943

In message <vilain-50BEE7.14355418012014@news.individual.net> 
  Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
> In article <fmmck-5A1C2F.16374118012014@5ad64b5e.bb.sky.com>,
>  Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> wrote:

>> In article <0t2dnXvC2JHPPkfPnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>>  Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>> 
>> > I haven't tried Debian so can't help you with the specifics.  But a 
>> > thought about experimenting with other OS' on a Mac:
>> > 
>> > The "best" way IMO is under a virtualizer such as VMWare Fusion or 
>> > Parallels.  That way your computer isn't "out of service" while you 
>> > tinker with Linux.
>> > 
>> > As a general purpose tinker Linux, Ubuntu is quite popular (and there 
>> > are many more of course).  You DL the 64 b version (marked as "AMD" just 
>> > to make things confusing) burn as an ISO and then install.  (There may 
>> > be a way to avoid burning a DVD or loading it onto a stick...)
>> > 
>> > Of course you can use any distro of Linux that you like.
>> 
>> This project has turned out to be more difficult than expected!  Rather 
>> than fussing with a virtualizer, I purchased another HD for the 4th slot 
>> in the Mac Pro.  I have older versions of Parallels and Fusion but got 
>> tired of them wanting an upgrade fee each time OS X was updated.
>> 
>> So far I have been burning CDs and DVDs from ISO files using Disk 
>> Utility.  I tried to restore an ISO to a thumb drive, but it did not 
>> work.
>> 
>> Doug Anderson mentioned use of rEFIt.  I found that I had missed a step.  
>> Now booting from LINUX just hangs up without an error message, but the 
>> LINUX HD shows up as two drives!  I think I have a partition problem.
>> 
>> The article that JF Mezei referenced appears to discuss the kind of 
>> problem I'm having.  I'll study it and see if it has the answer I'm 
>> looking for.
>> 
>> Thanks to all for the good advice.
>> 
>> Fred

> I found that most of Linux distros didn't install on my MacBookPro.  
> Some of the distros LIVE CDs wouldn't even be recognized by the boot 
> code.  I did find a couple that ran from the CD but none that would 
> install and boot.

> I attribute this to Apple's proprietary hardware and drivers needed to 
> run things like Windows, which is why BootCamp has it's own drivers.  

Nope, it's because the Windardos are still stuff in BIOS land despite
EFI being around for over a decade. (technically almost two decades)

Installing a linux distro under Parallels, Fusion, or even VirtualBox is
trivial.

-- 
The very existence of flame-throwers proves that some time, somewhere,
someone said to themselves, You know, I want to set those people over
there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done.

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#54937

On 2014-01-18, Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> wrote:
> In article <0t2dnXvC2JHPPkfPnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>  Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> I haven't tried Debian so can't help you with the specifics.  But a 
>> thought about experimenting with other OS' on a Mac:
>> 
>> The "best" way IMO is under a virtualizer such as VMWare Fusion or 
>> Parallels.  That way your computer isn't "out of service" while you 
>> tinker with Linux.
>> 
>> As a general purpose tinker Linux, Ubuntu is quite popular (and there 
>> are many more of course).  You DL the 64 b version (marked as "AMD" just 
>> to make things confusing) burn as an ISO and then install.  (There may 
>> be a way to avoid burning a DVD or loading it onto a stick...)
>> 
>> Of course you can use any distro of Linux that you like.
>
> This project has turned out to be more difficult than expected!  Rather 
> than fussing with a virtualizer, I purchased another HD for the 4th slot 
> in the Mac Pro.  I have older versions of Parallels and Fusion but got 
> tired of them wanting an upgrade fee each time OS X was updated.

Too bad. Had you gone the VM route, I'm betting we wouldn't
be having this conversation because you'd already be up and running.
Yep, they make things that easy. You're making this way harder than it
need be, if you ask me.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#55077

Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> writes:

> In article <0t2dnXvC2JHPPkfPnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>  Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> 
> > I haven't tried Debian so can't help you with the specifics.  But a 
> > thought about experimenting with other OS' on a Mac:
> > 
> > The "best" way IMO is under a virtualizer such as VMWare Fusion or 
> > Parallels.  That way your computer isn't "out of service" while you 
> > tinker with Linux.
> > 
> > As a general purpose tinker Linux, Ubuntu is quite popular (and there 
> > are many more of course).  You DL the 64 b version (marked as "AMD" just 
> > to make things confusing) burn as an ISO and then install.  (There may 
> > be a way to avoid burning a DVD or loading it onto a stick...)
> > 
> > Of course you can use any distro of Linux that you like.
> 
> This project has turned out to be more difficult than expected!  Rather 
> than fussing with a virtualizer, I purchased another HD for the 4th slot 
> in the Mac Pro.  I have older versions of Parallels and Fusion but got 
> tired of them wanting an upgrade fee each time OS X was updated.
> 
> So far I have been burning CDs and DVDs from ISO files using Disk 
> Utility.  I tried to restore an ISO to a thumb drive, but it did not 
> work.
> 
> Doug Anderson mentioned use of rEFIt.  I found that I had missed a step.  
> Now booting from LINUX just hangs up without an error message, but the 
> LINUX HD shows up as two drives!  I think I have a partition
> problem.

Installing linux was easy for me.  But, getting the boat loader (rEFIt)
working properly was harder.  Getting the disk partitioned correctly
was both hard and scary.

I did this in October, didn't take good notes, and thus don't really
have anything specific to offer in working through the preliminary
steps.  Here is a page that makes it look easier than I remember, so I
don't totally trust it.

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/10/dual-boot-os-ubuntu

Here is a more detailed page that seems more believable:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MactelSupportTeam/AppleIntelInstallation

Good luck!

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#55026

On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 18:31:14 -0500, Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com>
wrote:

>Although slightly off-topic, csms may be the best forum for this LINUX 
>problem.
>
>My new toy is a Raspberry Pi.  It runs Raspbian, a variation of Debian 
>LINUX.  In order to learn more about LINUX, I am attempting to install 
>Debian LINUX on a spare internal HD in a Mac Pro.
>
>I have downloaded ISO disk images of Debian in four forms:  32 bit net 
>install, 64 bit Gnome live desktop, 64 bit LXDE live desktop and a 
>"Mini" version suggested at one website.
>
>So far, all attempts to install have failed.  Using the rEFIt program, 
>the newly installed LINUX HD appears, tries to boot but fails (no 
>bootable device).
>
>Except for the "Mini" CD which hangs up half way through the boot-up 
>process, the CDs and DVDs all boot on the Mac.  It seems to me that this 
>proves that Debian will work if I can only find the secret!
>
>Can anyone tell me how to install a working Debian LINUX on my Mac Pro?  
>(I did manage to install a bootable version of "Puppy LINUX".)

If you have OSX installed you have Darwin Linux installed.



>Fred

-- 
If you don't like what I say you can go know yourself!

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#55029

Barry OGrady wrote:
>
> If you have OSX installed you have Darwin Linux installed.
>
Darwin is a BSD (Berkely Systems Development) UNIX variant, not Linux.

There was a version of Linux called MKLinux based upon the Mach Kernel
for the pre-G PPC Macs. This was funded by Apple as a possible basis for OSX.

However when Steve came back, it was dropped because the GPL was incompatible
with his business needs, and he brought with him NexStep, which was built
on BSD.

You can open a terminal and get a BSD shell, which these days looks an awful
lot like a Linux shell, and install X-Code, the development environment
and download and compile many programs which were first developed on Linux.

When I did it last, there was no library of the programs (called PORTS)
available precompiled, but may have changed. 

You can also install X-Windows, the UNIX windowing system which is also
used by Linux. 


Geoff.



-- 
Geoffrey S. Mendelson,  N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379

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#55031

On 2014-01-20, Geoffrey S. Mendelson <gsm@mendelson.com> wrote:
> Barry OGrady wrote:
>>
>> If you have OSX installed you have Darwin Linux installed.
>>
> Darwin is a BSD (Berkely Systems Development) UNIX variant, not Linux.

Of course, but I'm pretty sure he was saying that tongue in cheek. ; )

> You can open a terminal and get a BSD shell, which these days looks an
> awful lot like a Linux shell, and install X-Code, the development
> environment and download and compile many programs which were first
> developed on Linux.

I'm pretty sure you're both saying essentially the same thing. At least
that's how I interpreted his statement. : )

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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