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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #50782 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Matthew Lybanon <lybanon@earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2013-10-26 13:25 -0500 |
| Last post | 2013-10-27 19:49 +0000 |
| Articles | 14 — 9 participants |
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Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? Matthew Lybanon <lybanon@earthlink.net> - 2013-10-26 13:25 -0500
Re: Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-10-26 19:35 +0000
Re: Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-10-26 18:35 -0400
Re: Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-26 19:03 -0400
Re: Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-27 12:22 +1300
Re: Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-26 20:24 -0400
Re: Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2013-10-27 20:10 +0000
Re: Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-10-27 21:38 +0000
Re: Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-10-27 19:00 -0400
Re: Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-10-27 13:15 +1300
Re: Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? Matthew Lybanon <lybanon@earthlink.net> - 2013-10-27 11:35 -0500
Re: Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-10-27 15:52 -0400
Re: Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-10-27 21:05 +0000
Re: Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-10-27 19:49 +0000
| From | Matthew Lybanon <lybanon@earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-26 13:25 -0500 |
| Subject | Does Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions Do Anything? |
| Message-ID | <lybanon-16BC8B.13253226102013@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net> |
Mac OS X 10.8.5. After installing several system updates I ran Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions. Because "Show details" gave a fairly long list of (presumably) repairs, I ran it again, just to see what would happen. It found what I think is the same list of things to repair (I didn't check every one, but it was a similarly long list and several items were repeats of items in the first list), and again claimed to fix them. I know it looks like I've answered my own question, but I'd like to know what other people think.
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| From | Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-26 19:35 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnl6o6ch.2vrk.g.kreme@jaka.local> |
| In reply to | #50782 |
In message <lybanon-16BC8B.13253226102013@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net> Matthew Lybanon <lybanon@earthlink.net> wrote: > Mac OS X 10.8.5. > After installing several system updates I ran Disk Utility's Repair Disk > Permissions. Don't do that. > Because "Show details" gave a fairly long list of > (presumably) repairs, I ran it again, just to see what would happen. It > found what I think is the same list of things to repair (I didn't check > every one, but it was a similarly long list and several items were > repeats of items in the first list), and again claimed to fix them. Yep, that's a good example of why not to do that. -- Han Solo: Damn fool, I knew you were going to say that. Ben: Who's the more foolish, the fool, or the fool who follows him?
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| From | J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-26 18:35 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <l4hg4c$67c$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #50782 |
On 10/26/13 2:25 PM, Matthew Lybanon wrote: > Mac OS X 10.8.5. > > After installing several system updates I ran Disk Utility's Repair Disk > Permissions. Because "Show details" gave a fairly long list of > (presumably) repairs, I ran it again, just to see what would happen. It > found what I think is the same list of things to repair (I didn't check > every one, but it was a similarly long list and several items were > repeats of items in the first list), and again claimed to fix them. > > I know it looks like I've answered my own question, but I'd like to know > what other people think. > Is it iTunes? I've read that the latest update confuses Disk Utility's Verify Permissions.
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| From | Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-26 19:03 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <eL2dnVWdz4iq1_HPnZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #50782 |
On 2013.10.26, 14:25 , Matthew Lybanon wrote:
> Mac OS X 10.8.5.
>
> After installing several system updates I ran Disk Utility's Repair Disk
> Permissions. Because "Show details" gave a fairly long list of
> (presumably) repairs, I ran it again, just to see what would happen. It
> found what I think is the same list of things to repair (I didn't check
> every one, but it was a similarly long list and several items were
> repeats of items in the first list), and again claimed to fix them.
>
> I know it looks like I've answered my own question, but I'd like to know
> what other people think.
I haven't "repaired" permissions in over 3 years. JR will chime in and
say it's all but useless (for reasons I don't recall).
In short: don't bother.
--
"Quotation, n: The act of repeating erroneously the words of another."
-Ambrose Bierce
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| From | Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-27 12:22 +1300 |
| Message-ID | <271020131222526360%YourName@YourISP.com> |
| In reply to | #50816 |
In article <eL2dnVWdz4iq1_HPnZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote: > On 2013.10.26, 14:25 , Matthew Lybanon wrote: > > > > Mac OS X 10.8.5. > > > > After installing several system updates I ran Disk Utility's Repair Disk > > Permissions. Because "Show details" gave a fairly long list of > > (presumably) repairs, I ran it again, just to see what would happen. It > > found what I think is the same list of things to repair (I didn't check > > every one, but it was a similarly long list and several items were > > repeats of items in the first list), and again claimed to fix them. > > > > I know it looks like I've answered my own question, but I'd like to know > > what other people think. > > I haven't "repaired" permissions in over 3 years. JR will chime in and > say it's all but useless (for reasons I don't recall). > > In short: don't bother. Repair Permissions is uesful for what it is designed to do (which isn't much) ... BUT it is definitely not the "cure all" solution which many people tend to believe it is. Since it doesn't take a huge amount of time nor do anything troublesome, it is perhaps worth trying as a first option. It's a bit like the usual help desk recommendation of switching the computer or modem off and on again - it may work, but it's not likely to fix any real problems. :-)
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| From | Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-26 20:24 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <N-2dnTJiAZKjwPHPnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #50818 |
On 2013.10.26, 19:22 , Your Name wrote:
> In article <eL2dnVWdz4iq1_HPnZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2013.10.26, 14:25 , Matthew Lybanon wrote:
>>>
>>> Mac OS X 10.8.5.
>>>
>>> After installing several system updates I ran Disk Utility's Repair Disk
>>> Permissions. Because "Show details" gave a fairly long list of
>>> (presumably) repairs, I ran it again, just to see what would happen. It
>>> found what I think is the same list of things to repair (I didn't check
>>> every one, but it was a similarly long list and several items were
>>> repeats of items in the first list), and again claimed to fix them.
>>>
>>> I know it looks like I've answered my own question, but I'd like to know
>>> what other people think.
>>
>> I haven't "repaired" permissions in over 3 years. JR will chime in and
>> say it's all but useless (for reasons I don't recall).
>>
>> In short: don't bother.
>
> Repair Permissions is uesful for what it is designed to do (which isn't
> much) ... BUT it is definitely not the "cure all" solution which many
> people tend to believe it is.
>
> Since it doesn't take a huge amount of time nor do anything
> troublesome, it is perhaps worth trying as a first option. It's a bit
> like the usual help desk recommendation of switching the computer or
> modem off and on again - it may work, but it's not likely to fix any
> real problems. :-)
It never solved anything for me so wouldn't bother.
OTOH, "Repair Disk" has worked on at least one issue I had - though I
had to boot into safe mode (or somesuch) for it to function.
--
"Quotation, n: The act of repeating erroneously the words of another."
-Ambrose Bierce
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| From | me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-27 20:10 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <l4js01$omm$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #50816 |
Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote: > JR will chime in and say it's all but useless Right on cue! He had his very long canned response right at the ready. -- K. Lang may your lum reek.
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-27 21:38 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <bd5fe3FfnokU3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #50912 |
On 2013-10-27, Király <me@home.spamsucks.ca> wrote: > Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote: >> JR will chime in and say it's all but useless > > Right on cue! He had his very long canned response right at the ready. Guilty. : ) -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-27 19:00 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <526d9b0d$0$61577$c3e8da3$f017e9df@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #50912 |
On 13-10-27 16:10, Király wrote: > Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote: >> JR will chime in and say it's all but useless > > Right on cue! He had his very long canned response right at the ready. There is no love lost betwen JR and me. But in this particular case, Jolly's response was constructive and informative on how the repaid permissions work and factual about the areas where there are problems.
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| From | jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-27 13:15 +1300 |
| Message-ID | <1lbeho7.9zgj1y1t7kfa2N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> |
| In reply to | #50782 |
Matthew Lybanon <lybanon@earthlink.net> wrote: > Mac OS X 10.8.5. > > After installing several system updates I ran Disk Utility's Repair Disk > Permissions. Because "Show details" gave a fairly long list of > (presumably) repairs, I ran it again, just to see what would happen. It > found what I think is the same list of things to repair (I didn't check > every one, but it was a similarly long list and several items were > repeats of items in the first list), and again claimed to fix them. > > I know it looks like I've answered my own question, but I'd like to know > what other people think. First of all it only works for Apple installed software that keeps a receipt, secondly it's only going to reset permissions on that set of software to what the installer thought at the time of install they should be, and thirdly - and related to my second point - you may be creating additional problems by changing permissions that were altered in ways that OS X never recorded, but were valid, even necessary. I can really only think of one instance since I began using and supporting OS X, that this process had any value. While the chances are slim that you'll create additional issues, the chances are even slimmer you'll fix anything you think may be permission related with Apple software. So I'd avoid unnecessary 'repairing' of permissions. I'm not even sure why Apple keeps that around. It's created more problems and wasted more time than it ever did any good. -- If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
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| From | Matthew Lybanon <lybanon@earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-27 11:35 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <lybanon-1B4B37.11352127102013@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net> |
| In reply to | #50824 |
In article <1lbeho7.9zgj1y1t7kfa2N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>, jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote: > Matthew Lybanon <lybanon@earthlink.net> wrote: > > > Mac OS X 10.8.5. > > > > After installing several system updates I ran Disk Utility's Repair Disk > > Permissions. Because "Show details" gave a fairly long list of > > (presumably) repairs, I ran it again, just to see what would happen. It > > found what I think is the same list of things to repair (I didn't check > > every one, but it was a similarly long list and several items were > > repeats of items in the first list), and again claimed to fix them. > > > > I know it looks like I've answered my own question, but I'd like to know > > what other people think. > > First of all it only works for Apple installed software that keeps a > receipt, As I said, I ran Repair Disk Permissions after System Update (one of the programs updated was Safari). Is that Apple installed software that keeps a receipt? I have no idea. The point is, Repair Disk Permissions SAID that it repaired a long list of permissions, but when I ran it again all the same permissions still needed to be repaired. secondly it's only going to reset permissions on that set of > software to what the installer thought at the time of install they > should be, and thirdly - and related to my second point - you may be > creating additional problems by changing permissions that were altered > in ways that OS X never recorded, but were valid, even necessary. > > I can really only think of one instance since I began using and > supporting OS X, that this process had any value. While the chances are > slim that you'll create additional issues, the chances are even slimmer > you'll fix anything you think may be permission related with Apple > software. > > So I'd avoid unnecessary 'repairing' of permissions. I'm not even sure > why Apple keeps that around. It's created more problems and wasted more > time than it ever did any good.
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| From | J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-27 15:52 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <l4jqt0$gh9$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #50889 |
On 10/27/13 12:35 PM, Matthew Lybanon wrote: > As I said, I ran Repair Disk Permissions after System Update (one of the > programs updated was Safari). Is that Apple installed software that > keeps a receipt? I have no idea. > > The point is, Repair Disk Permissions SAID that it repaired a long list > of permissions, but when I ran it again all the same permissions still > needed to be repaired. What apps does the list say these permissions are from?
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| From | Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-27 21:05 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnl6r004.m62.g.kreme@mbp55.local> |
| In reply to | #50889 |
In message <lybanon-1B4B37.11352127102013@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net> Matthew Lybanon <lybanon@earthlink.net> wrote: > In article <1lbeho7.9zgj1y1t7kfa2N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>, > jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote: >> Matthew Lybanon <lybanon@earthlink.net> wrote: >> >> > Mac OS X 10.8.5. >> > >> > After installing several system updates I ran Disk Utility's Repair Disk >> > Permissions. Because "Show details" gave a fairly long list of >> > (presumably) repairs, I ran it again, just to see what would happen. It >> > found what I think is the same list of things to repair (I didn't check >> > every one, but it was a similarly long list and several items were >> > repeats of items in the first list), and again claimed to fix them. >> > >> > I know it looks like I've answered my own question, but I'd like to know >> > what other people think. >> >> First of all it only works for Apple installed software that keeps a >> receipt, > As I said, I ran Repair Disk Permissions after System Update (one of the > programs updated was Safari). Is that Apple installed software that > keeps a receipt? I have no idea. Don't run Repair Disk Permissions. > The point is, Repair Disk Permissions SAID that it repaired a long list > of permissions, but when I ran it again all the same permissions still > needed to be repaired. Right. It does that. That's one of the many reasons not to run it. -- "I do not feel obliged to believe that same God who endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect had intended for us to forego their use."
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-27 19:49 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <bd592nFf687U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #50782 |
On 2013-10-26, Matthew Lybanon <lybanon@earthlink.net> wrote: > Mac OS X 10.8.5. > > After installing several system updates I ran Disk Utility's Repair Disk > Permissions. Because "Show details" gave a fairly long list of > (presumably) repairs, I ran it again, just to see what would happen. It > found what I think is the same list of things to repair (I didn't check > every one, but it was a similarly long list and several items were > repeats of items in the first list), and again claimed to fix them. > > I know it looks like I've answered my own question, but I'd like to know > what other people think. Disk Utility's Repair Permissions function isn't as magical a tool as a lot of people seem to assume. It's a very simple tool that is meant to reset the states of ownership and permissions of *specific sets of files*, and *only* those files listed in the receipts of specific software in the receipts folder. This receipts folder is located at /Library/Receipts in Mac OS X versions prior to 10.6, and was moved to /private/var/db/receipts starting with version 10.6. Repair Permissions reads the contents of each receipt in the receipts folder to find out which files and folders it should examine. Receipts are typically created by software installers that use the Mac OS X built-in /Applications/Utilities/Installer program to install a software package, though they may be placed into the receipts folder by other means as well. Receipts typically contain a "Bill of Materials" file that lists of each important file and folder in the installed software package, along with the expected ownership and permissions those files and folders, according to the install package. Repair Permissions examines only those files listed by these receipts. This means the files in your home folder and the files in the local domain (/Library for instance) are *not* examined. The Repair Permissions tool has a rather serious design flaw: it does not know how to resolve cases where multiple receipts list the same file or folder with differing ownership and permissions. This actually happens fairly frequently, particularly when more than one software package installs and uses a shared library or other system resource that happens to be used by another software package. If there are multiple receipts that list a given file or folder, and the expected ownership and permissions differ between those two receipts, Repair Permissions will encounter the first receipt, change the ownership and permissions to honor that receipt, then encounter the second receipt and change the ownership and permissions to honor the second receipt. This typically manifests itself in Disk Utility's Repair Permissions log as a file/folder that never seems to be actually repaired, flipping back and forth between two states. Once you understand how it works, you see Repair Permissions is not half as useful or magical as a lot of people seem to believe. I wish more people understood this - we probably wouldn't see so many Mac users running Repair Permissions at the drop of the hat or on a regular schedule as we see so often. ; ) Bottom line: If you are not experiencing problems with a specific piece of software listed in the receipts folder, there's no reason to run Repair Permissions. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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