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Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to.

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  Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-12-07 03:12 +1300
    Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-12-06 17:24 +0000
      Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-12-07 15:51 +1300
        Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2013-12-07 08:27 -0600
          Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-12-08 09:08 +1300
            Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2013-12-07 15:38 -0600
    Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. isw <isw@witzend.com> - 2013-12-06 09:46 -0800
      Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-12-07 15:51 +1300
        Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-12-07 09:00 +0000
          Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-12-07 23:11 +1300
          Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. Fred Bambrough <fred@[127.0.0.1]> - 2013-12-07 16:32 +0000
            Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-12-08 07:58 +1300
              Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-07 14:19 -0500
                Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-12-08 08:46 +1300
                  Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2013-12-08 15:08 +1300
                    Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-12-08 16:25 +1300
                      Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2013-12-08 23:08 +1300
                        Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-12-08 23:59 +1300
                          Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-12-08 17:42 +0000
                      Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-12-08 17:30 +0000
                    Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-08 12:42 -0500
                      Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-12-09 08:08 +1300
                        Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-12-08 19:12 +0000
                        Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-08 14:19 -0500
                        Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-12-08 23:54 +0000
                        Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-12-10 01:14 -0500
                          Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-12-10 19:26 +1300
                            Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-10 12:22 -0500
                              Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2013-12-12 09:19 -0800
                                Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-12-12 19:22 +0000
                                Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-12 14:37 -0500
                  Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-12-08 03:08 +0000
                    Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-12-08 17:36 +0000
            Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-12-08 03:06 +0000
          Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-12-10 01:11 -0500
    Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2013-12-07 10:26 +1300
      Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-12-07 15:51 +1300
        Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2013-12-08 15:08 +1300
          Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-12-08 16:25 +1300
            Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2013-12-08 23:08 +1300
              Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-12-08 23:59 +1300
                Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-12-10 22:17 +1300
            Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-12-08 17:32 +0000
              Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-12-09 08:08 +1300
        Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-12-08 03:17 +0000
          Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-12-08 16:36 +1300
            Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-12-08 06:23 +0000
              Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-12-08 22:47 +1300
      Re: Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to. David Fritzinger <dfritzin@nospam.mac.com> - 2013-12-07 14:58 -0500

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#53030 — Bought refurbished iPod touch, it's FUBARed, and other shit to.

/begin rant

New and very latest shit:

I am truly at a low point with Apple right now. My new refurbished iPod
touch wasn't tested before being sent out (some refurbishment process!),
and has a permanently blurry damaged facetime camera.

The iTunes store won't display any images. Just the square blue '?'
placeholder (1). App store can't connect. App store on iPod and iTunes
store on Mac can't download apps and install as the apps image isn't
there to download. This is possibly related to my ISP's proxy, but
amazingly nothing else is affected. Apple's app and iTunes store is
special. It is affected like nothing else is. THey say they have reports
of many ISPs in NZ, Australia and Asia having issues with their App and
iTunes stores and the ISP's proxy servers. How the hell can a major
service like this not handle standard proxy servers? I await my ISP
giving me a static IP (wow - not had one of those at home since dialup
days) and bypassing their proxy so I can have slower downloads, but
hopefully the braindead Apple App and iTunes stores can work again.
Assuming this is the reason for the issue.

Internet sharing from one connection (e.g. ethernet) to another (say
Airport or bluetooth) is broken in OS X 10.6.8, but worked back in
10.5.x. Apple couldn't care less. THeir advice - abandon all my carbon
apps, and upgrade them and others so I can install 10.9 and hope it has
working internet sharing. Yeah - not going to happen. Internet sharing
works in WinXP just fine. Not to mention in order to get 10.9 I'd need a
WORKING FUCKING APP STORE!!!

Old shit:

Six years on I still don't have working Apple supplied Boot Camp GPU
drivers for my 24" iMac, and rely on manually installed ATI ones found
to work by educated guesses and much trial and error.

I'm still pissed at having to go through three 24" iMacs before I had
one without hardware faults.

I'm still pissed at Time Machine failing me badly twice by being unable
to restore backed up files. Thank goodness I never rely on one backup
method.

I'm still pissed at all the other joyful shit I went through with early
10.5, not just it's craptastic TM.

Hell I'm still annoyed at my lime iMac frying it's video card just out
of the standard one year warranty (I was a poor student and foolishly
didn't buy extended Applecare back then) some 13 years ago.

I could go on, but you get the idea.

New thought:

I'm pissed that I find after doing the math the other day, I note two
out of three Apple devices I've ever bought have failed with a hardware
fault of some kind within the first two years. I'd like to get just a
little more than two years fully functional operation out of a majority
of my Apple devices, if not most of them (but going on past evidence
that would just be a pipe dream).

Conclusion:

I'm either suffering a from random bad luck and statistical confluence
of bad shit, or Apple has major quality control issues they still have
not addressed since the bloody 90's.

But realistically and in moments I've a cooler head, I know I must just
be fucked by random chance. Apple cannot, surely, be so bad at quality
control. Others would have noticed and suffered. Many more than I hear
about.

No, I'm just fucked. The tech gods hate me :-D

/end rant

(1) From console:

4/12/13 7:09:48 PM  iTunes[3543]   CGImageDestinationAddImageFromSource
image 0 of source is nil
4/12/13 7:09:48 PM  iTunes[3543]   CGImageDestinationFinalize image
destination does not have enough images

-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#53032

In message <1ldhmem.16dzvzw1b5ytbgN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> 
  Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> /begin rant

> New and very latest shit:

> I am truly at a low point with Apple right now. My new refurbished iPod
> touch wasn't tested before being sent out (some refurbishment process!),
> and has a permanently blurry damaged facetime camera.

Get a replacement, shit happens.

> The iTunes store won't display any images. Just the square blue '?'
> placeholder (1). App store can't connect. App store on iPod and iTunes
> store on Mac can't download apps and install as the apps image isn't
> there to download. This is possibly related to my ISP's proxy,

Yes, it would have to be. I bet if you take your iPod to
Starbucks/McDonald's/Apple Store/Neighbor's WIfi it works fine, but
sure, let's blame Apple for your shitty ISP.

> but amazingly nothing else is affected.

How is that amazing? Your ISP sucks.

Apple's app and iTunes store is
> special. It is affected like nothing else is. THey say they have reports
> of many ISPs in NZ, Australia and Asia having issues with their App and
> iTunes stores and the ISP's proxy servers.

Probably they are either breaking SSL or the NSA is breaking SSL for
them.

> How the hell can a major service like this not handle standard proxy
> servers?

You are confused, Apple has nothing to do with "handling proxy servers."

> Internet sharing from one connection (e.g. ethernet) to another (say
> Airport or bluetooth) is broken in OS X 10.6.8, but worked back in
> 10.5.x.

It worked fine in 10.6.8, 10.7.5, and 10.8.4. In fact, it's always
worked.

> Not to mention in order to get 10.9 I'd need a WORKING FUCKING APP
> STORE!!!

The App store works just fine for hundreds of millions of people all
over the world.

> I'm pissed that I find after doing the math the other day, I note two
> out of three Apple devices I've ever bought have failed with a hardware
> fault of some kind within the first two years.

Still working Apple Devices I've bought:

1) Apple //e
2) Apple //gs with 4MB RAM upgrade
3) Mac SE FDHD
4) Bondi 233Mhz iMac
5) Performa 6400
6) PowerPC Mac mini
7) iMac G4 (1 of 2, the other fried it's PSU)
8) Beige G3 desktop
9) G4 Gigabit Ethernet Tower
10) iPod touch 2nd gen (2)
11) iPhone 3GS (2)
12) iPhone 4
13) iPhone 4S (2)
14) iPad 2s (7)
15) iPad 3 (2)
16) Xserve G5 (2)
17) Apple //c+

(I don't have all of these still, but I know they are still working).

Apple devices I bought that I know no longer work:

1) Original iPod (click wheel died)
2) Apple //c
3) iMac G4
4) MacPro1,1
5) iBook (2)
6) Power Mac G3 (Blue and White)

Broken Devices that still work:

1) Mac Book Pro

The Macbook Pro was broken by a 7 year-old jumping on it and cracking
the screen. The screen will not display and the computer cannt run off
the battery, but connected to an external screen and external keyboard,
it still works 6 years later. I use it to run Plex on one of our TVs.

The shortest lived of the non-working devices was the iMac G4 which died
after just under 5 years. The Mac Pro died at just under 6 years.

> Conclusion:

You're a troll?

> I'm either suffering a from random bad luck and statistical confluence
> of bad shit, or Apple has major quality control issues they still have
> not addressed since the bloody 90's.

Right, that would explain their consistent rankings as the most reliable
computer maker. Everyone else in the world is lying.

-- 
When the chips are down, the buffalo's empty.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#53060

Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> You're a troll?

Bugger me you are a fount of useless shit, Lewis. Why do you even bother
replying if you have absolutely nothing worthwhile to say?

-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#53068

On 12/6/13 8:51 PM, in article
1ldimnt.1fou87v1e0yqzjN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz, "Jamie Kahn Genet"
<jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:

> Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> 
>> You're a troll?
> 
> Bugger me you are a fount of useless shit, Lewis. Why do you even bother
> replying if you have absolutely nothing worthwhile to say?

Fire with fire? All we heard from you was nothing but useless profanity...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#53089

George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On 12/6/13 8:51 PM, in article
> 1ldimnt.1fou87v1e0yqzjN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz, "Jamie Kahn Genet"
> <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> 
> > Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> > 
> >> You're a troll?
> > 
> > Bugger me you are a fount of useless shit, Lewis. Why do you even bother
> > replying if you have absolutely nothing worthwhile to say?
> 
> Fire with fire? All we heard from you was nothing but useless profanity...

Why did I bother unhiding your post? There's a reason I've got you
killfiled as well.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#53100

On 12/7/13 2:08 PM, in article
1ldjyod.1zy80mkxvylN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz, "Jamie Kahn Genet"
<jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:

> George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 12/6/13 8:51 PM, in article
>> 1ldimnt.1fou87v1e0yqzjN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz, "Jamie Kahn Genet"
>> <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
>> 
>>> Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> You're a troll?
>>> 
>>> Bugger me you are a fount of useless shit, Lewis. Why do you even bother
>>> replying if you have absolutely nothing worthwhile to say?
>> 
>> Fire with fire? All we heard from you was nothing but useless profanity...
> 
> Why did I bother unhiding your post? There's a reason I've got you
> killfiled as well.

Don't let the screen door hit you in the ass while doing it, OK?

DO IT, *NOW* - I give you my PERMISSION: MY **ORDER** - NOW!!!!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#53034

In article <1ldhmem.16dzvzw1b5ytbgN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
 jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:

> /begin rant
> 
> New and very latest shit:
> 
> I am truly at a low point with Apple right now. My new refurbished iPod
> touch wasn't tested before being sent out (some refurbishment process!),
> and has a permanently blurry damaged facetime camera.
> 
> The iTunes store won't display any images. Just the square blue '?'
> placeholder (1). App store can't connect. App store on iPod and iTunes
> store on Mac can't download apps and install as the apps image isn't
> there to download. This is possibly related to my ISP's proxy, but
> amazingly nothing else is affected. Apple's app and iTunes store is
> special. It is affected like nothing else is. THey say they have reports
> of many ISPs in NZ, Australia and Asia having issues with their App and
> iTunes stores and the ISP's proxy servers. How the hell can a major
> service like this not handle standard proxy servers? I await my ISP
> giving me a static IP (wow - not had one of those at home since dialup
> days) and bypassing their proxy so I can have slower downloads, but
> hopefully the braindead Apple App and iTunes stores can work again.
> Assuming this is the reason for the issue.
> 
> Internet sharing from one connection (e.g. ethernet) to another (say
> Airport or bluetooth) is broken in OS X 10.6.8, but worked back in
> 10.5.x. Apple couldn't care less. THeir advice - abandon all my carbon
> apps, and upgrade them and others so I can install 10.9 and hope it has
> working internet sharing. Yeah - not going to happen. Internet sharing
> works in WinXP just fine. Not to mention in order to get 10.9 I'd need a
> WORKING FUCKING APP STORE!!!
> 
> Old shit:
> 
> Six years on I still don't have working Apple supplied Boot Camp GPU
> drivers for my 24" iMac, and rely on manually installed ATI ones found
> to work by educated guesses and much trial and error.
> 
> I'm still pissed at having to go through three 24" iMacs before I had
> one without hardware faults.
> 
> I'm still pissed at Time Machine failing me badly twice by being unable
> to restore backed up files. Thank goodness I never rely on one backup
> method.
> 
> I'm still pissed at all the other joyful shit I went through with early
> 10.5, not just it's craptastic TM.
> 
> Hell I'm still annoyed at my lime iMac frying it's video card just out
> of the standard one year warranty (I was a poor student and foolishly
> didn't buy extended Applecare back then) some 13 years ago.
> 
> I could go on, but you get the idea.
> 
> New thought:
> 
> I'm pissed that I find after doing the math the other day, I note two
> out of three Apple devices I've ever bought have failed with a hardware
> fault of some kind within the first two years. I'd like to get just a
> little more than two years fully functional operation out of a majority
> of my Apple devices, if not most of them (but going on past evidence
> that would just be a pipe dream).
> 
> Conclusion:
> 
> I'm either suffering a from random bad luck and statistical confluence
> of bad shit, or Apple has major quality control issues they still have
> not addressed since the bloody 90's.
> 
> But realistically and in moments I've a cooler head, I know I must just
> be fucked by random chance. Apple cannot, surely, be so bad at quality
> control. Others would have noticed and suffered. Many more than I hear
> about.
> 
> No, I'm just fucked. The tech gods hate me :-D
> 
> /end rant


Sounds to me like your best choice is to just go out and get a bunch of 
Windows gear ...

Isaac

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#53059

isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:

> In article <1ldhmem.16dzvzw1b5ytbgN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
>  jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> 
> > /begin rant
> > 
> > New and very latest shit:
> > 
> > I am truly at a low point with Apple right now. My new refurbished iPod
> > touch wasn't tested before being sent out (some refurbishment process!),
> > and has a permanently blurry damaged facetime camera.
> > 
> > The iTunes store won't display any images. Just the square blue '?'
> > placeholder (1). App store can't connect. App store on iPod and iTunes
> > store on Mac can't download apps and install as the apps image isn't
> > there to download. This is possibly related to my ISP's proxy, but
> > amazingly nothing else is affected. Apple's app and iTunes store is
> > special. It is affected like nothing else is. THey say they have reports
> > of many ISPs in NZ, Australia and Asia having issues with their App and
> > iTunes stores and the ISP's proxy servers. How the hell can a major
> > service like this not handle standard proxy servers? I await my ISP
> > giving me a static IP (wow - not had one of those at home since dialup
> > days) and bypassing their proxy so I can have slower downloads, but
> > hopefully the braindead Apple App and iTunes stores can work again.
> > Assuming this is the reason for the issue.
> > 
> > Internet sharing from one connection (e.g. ethernet) to another (say
> > Airport or bluetooth) is broken in OS X 10.6.8, but worked back in
> > 10.5.x. Apple couldn't care less. THeir advice - abandon all my carbon
> > apps, and upgrade them and others so I can install 10.9 and hope it has
> > working internet sharing. Yeah - not going to happen. Internet sharing
> > works in WinXP just fine. Not to mention in order to get 10.9 I'd need a
> > WORKING FUCKING APP STORE!!!
> > 
> > Old shit:
> > 
> > Six years on I still don't have working Apple supplied Boot Camp GPU
> > drivers for my 24" iMac, and rely on manually installed ATI ones found
> > to work by educated guesses and much trial and error.
> > 
> > I'm still pissed at having to go through three 24" iMacs before I had
> > one without hardware faults.
> > 
> > I'm still pissed at Time Machine failing me badly twice by being unable
> > to restore backed up files. Thank goodness I never rely on one backup
> > method.
> > 
> > I'm still pissed at all the other joyful shit I went through with early
> > 10.5, not just it's craptastic TM.
> > 
> > Hell I'm still annoyed at my lime iMac frying it's video card just out
> > of the standard one year warranty (I was a poor student and foolishly
> > didn't buy extended Applecare back then) some 13 years ago.
> > 
> > I could go on, but you get the idea.
> > 
> > New thought:
> > 
> > I'm pissed that I find after doing the math the other day, I note two
> > out of three Apple devices I've ever bought have failed with a hardware
> > fault of some kind within the first two years. I'd like to get just a
> > little more than two years fully functional operation out of a majority
> > of my Apple devices, if not most of them (but going on past evidence
> > that would just be a pipe dream).
> > 
> > Conclusion:
> > 
> > I'm either suffering a from random bad luck and statistical confluence
> > of bad shit, or Apple has major quality control issues they still have
> > not addressed since the bloody 90's.
> > 
> > But realistically and in moments I've a cooler head, I know I must just
> > be fucked by random chance. Apple cannot, surely, be so bad at quality
> > control. Others would have noticed and suffered. Many more than I hear
> > about.
> > 
> > No, I'm just fucked. The tech gods hate me :-D
> > 
> > /end rant
> 
> 
> Sounds to me like your best choice is to just go out and get a bunch of
> Windows gear ...
> 
> Isaac

In my more annoyed moments I've considered switching completely. Anyway
- I do already use Windows. Always have. But I still prefer OS X for
many things, and loath Win8 (I still use either XP or 7 which are very
decent) far more than I do the changes to OS X since 10.7+. Plus I own a
lot of Mac apps.

It distresses me that nowadays for me it often comes down to elegance,
or 'just works', and 'just works' is so often WinXP or 7 and PC hardware
nowadays, and not OS X and Apple hardware. It 'just works' was how the
Mac used to be. Well my Apple hardware often broke back in classic days,
but at least the only time I had Apple software issues was when I loaded
too many third party extensions to change the system (always a
temptation back then, there being so many neat yet destabilising ways to
alter the system in fun and useful ways).

-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#53066

In article <1ldikzj.1lhotks9jwh6oN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>, Jamie
Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:

> In my more annoyed moments I've considered switching completely. Anyway
> - I do already use Windows. Always have. But I still prefer OS X for
> many things, and loath Win8 (I still use either XP or 7 which are very
> decent) far more than I do the changes to OS X since 10.7+. Plus I own a
> lot of Mac apps.
> 
> It distresses me that nowadays for me it often comes down to elegance,
> or 'just works', and 'just works' is so often WinXP or 7 and PC hardware
> nowadays, and not OS X and Apple hardware. It 'just works' was how the
> Mac used to be. Well my Apple hardware often broke back in classic days,
> but at least the only time I had Apple software issues was when I loaded
> too many third party extensions to change the system (always a
> temptation back then, there being so many neat yet destabilising ways to
> alter the system in fun and useful ways).

None of this alters the fundamental 1970s shittiness of Windows. The
drive letters. The fact that you can't move an open file. I dislike a
lot about the unix command line, but boy, it's sweetness and light
compared to cmd.

I try to port my app to Win7, and find that I can't easily spin off a
process (like apache) and then later send it a signal so it can
gracefully quit. My only option is to kill it stone dead. Looks like I
can just about get a file opened by its default application, but oh
dear, if that file is an .exe or .bat, then they get *executed*, which
I don't want at all - but can't prevent. I keep getting told, well you
can't do that in Windows.

-- 
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"  --  Bill of Rights 1689

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#53067

Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

> None of this alters the fundamental 1970s shittiness of Windows. The
> drive letters. The fact that you can't move an open file. I dislike a
> lot about the unix command line, but boy, it's sweetness and light
> compared to cmd.

Agreed. Even the rather good Windows 7 is still inelegant in so many
ways compared to OS X, or even classic MacOS. Windows feels like a
kludge that works well, leaving me feeling utterly indifferent to it.
MacOS has always inspired feelings of warmth - I enjoy using it, though
this was more true back in classic MacOS for me. Windows was never
likeable - only ever utilitarian for me.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#53079

In message <071220130900190268%timstreater@greenbee.net>
     Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

> None of this alters the fundamental 1970s shittiness of Windows.


1970s?

-- 
Fred

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#53084

Fred Bambrough <fred@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:

> In message <071220130900190268%timstreater@greenbee.net>
>      Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
> 
> > None of this alters the fundamental 1970s shittiness of Windows.
> 
> 
> 1970s?

I think Tim refers to the DOS foundations of Windows.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#53086

In article <1ldjvg2.hcp29n14dl38lN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>, Jamie
Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:

> > > None of this alters the fundamental 1970s shittiness of Windows.
> > 
> > 1970s?
> 
> I think Tim refers to the DOS foundations of Windows.

dos wasn't 1970s and windows certainly wasn't.

however, the command line is.

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#53087

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <1ldjvg2.hcp29n14dl38lN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>, Jamie
> Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> 
> > > > None of this alters the fundamental 1970s shittiness of Windows.
> > > 
> > > 1970s?
> > 
> > I think Tim refers to the DOS foundations of Windows.
> 
> dos wasn't 1970s and windows certainly wasn't.
> 
> however, the command line is.

This is true. What later became MS-DOS only started development in 1980.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#53108

Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:

> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> 
> > In article <1ldjvg2.hcp29n14dl38lN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>, Jamie
> > Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> > 
> > > > > None of this alters the fundamental 1970s shittiness of Windows.
> > > > 
> > > > 1970s?
> > > 
> > > I think Tim refers to the DOS foundations of Windows.
> > 
> > dos wasn't 1970s and windows certainly wasn't.
> > 
> > however, the command line is.
> 
> This is true. What later became MS-DOS only started development in 1980.

QDOS (and PC-DOS 1.0) was modelled on CP/M, which was certainly 1970s.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#53114

David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:

> Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> 
> > nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> > 
> > > In article <1ldjvg2.hcp29n14dl38lN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>, Jamie
> > > Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > > None of this alters the fundamental 1970s shittiness of Windows.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 1970s?
> > > > 
> > > > I think Tim refers to the DOS foundations of Windows.
> > > 
> > > dos wasn't 1970s and windows certainly wasn't.
> > > 
> > > however, the command line is.
> > 
> > This is true. What later became MS-DOS only started development in 1980.
> 
> QDOS (and PC-DOS 1.0) was modelled on CP/M, which was certainly 1970s.

But was there shared code? The 70's were before I was born (I'm 35),
though I've often daydreamed of that exciting era of the very first
personal computers.

-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#53128

Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:

> David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> 
> > Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> > 
> > > nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > In article <1ldjvg2.hcp29n14dl38lN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>, Jamie
> > > > Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > > > None of this alters the fundamental 1970s shittiness of Windows.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 1970s?
> > > > > 
> > > > > I think Tim refers to the DOS foundations of Windows.
> > > > 
> > > > dos wasn't 1970s and windows certainly wasn't.
> > > > 
> > > > however, the command line is.
> > > 
> > > This is true. What later became MS-DOS only started development in 1980.
> > 
> > QDOS (and PC-DOS 1.0) was modelled on CP/M, which was certainly 1970s.
> 
> But was there shared code?

No, but QDOS was derived as a copy of CP/M, with the same 8.3 filename
format, same archaic principle of drive letters, and even the same
application programming interfaces (or as near as possible given the
different processor).

> The 70's were before I was born (I'm 35), though I've often daydreamed of
> that exciting era of the very first personal computers.

I have about ten years on you, but didn't start using computers
seriously until I started high school in 1981 (Apple ][+ running DOS 3.3
and Apple II Pascal). I used and programmed CP/M a few years later, but
I didn't encounter MS-DOS/PC-DOS earlier than version 2 (which
introduced directories) apart from documentation.
-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#53130

David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:

> Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> 
> > David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> > 
> > > Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > In article <1ldjvg2.hcp29n14dl38lN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>, Jamie
> > > > > Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > > None of this alters the fundamental 1970s shittiness of Windows.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 1970s?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I think Tim refers to the DOS foundations of Windows.
> > > > > 
> > > > > dos wasn't 1970s and windows certainly wasn't.
> > > > > 
> > > > > however, the command line is.
> > > > 
> > > > This is true. What later became MS-DOS only started development in 1980.
> > > 
> > > QDOS (and PC-DOS 1.0) was modelled on CP/M, which was certainly 1970s.
> > 
> > But was there shared code?
> 
> No, but QDOS was derived as a copy of CP/M, with the same 8.3 filename
> format, same archaic principle of drive letters, and even the same
> application programming interfaces (or as near as possible given the
> different processor).
> 
> > The 70's were before I was born (I'm 35), though I've often daydreamed of
> > that exciting era of the very first personal computers.

Hmm, that seemed a bit silly re-reading it. Of course I _was_ born in
1978, but of naturally I don't remember my two years in the 70's, heh,
and my earliest contact with computers (1) wasn't till my first year at
school in 1983.

> I have about ten years on you, but didn't start using computers
> seriously until I started high school in 1981 (Apple ][+ running DOS 3.3
> and Apple II Pascal). I used and programmed CP/M a few years later, but
> I didn't encounter MS-DOS/PC-DOS earlier than version 2 (which
> introduced directories) apart from documentation.

Well you still beat me by two years :-)

(1) an Apple II+ maybe - not a IIe I guess, as they were only released
in 1983, and my first primary school wouldn't have been that cutting
edge. Later in form two of intermediate (year eight for those keeping
track in other countries) I briefly got to use the school's IIgs with
it's GUI which was very exciting (though mainly all we got to do was
play Oregon's Trail), but it wasn't until I reached high school the
following year and got my hands on their Macs that I truly appreciated
how wonderful a GUI OS such as System 6 and 7 could be.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#53136

In message <1ldl1t7.1dfc05s1l1van9N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> 
  Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> (1) an Apple II+ maybe - not a IIe I guess, as they were only released
> in 1983, and my first primary school wouldn't have been that cutting
> edge.

As I recall you could get a relatively cheap upgrade kit that involved
pulling two ROMs, replacing them, and sending them back to Apple.
Definitely had something to do with the //e.

> Later in form two of intermediate (year eight for those keeping
> track in other countries) I briefly got to use the school's IIgs with
> it's GUI which was very exciting (though mainly all we got to do was
> play Oregon's Trail), but it wasn't until I reached high school the
> following year and got my hands on their Macs that I truly appreciated
> how wonderful a GUI OS such as System 6 and 7 could be.

I loved my //gs so much I didn't get rid of it until a few months ago.

-- 
Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons
exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten.

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#53133

In article <1ldkhms.1cu32gn1lzfyhmN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>, Jamie
Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:

> David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> 
> > Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> > 
> > > nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > In article <1ldjvg2.hcp29n14dl38lN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>, Jamie
> > > > Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > > > None of this alters the fundamental 1970s shittiness of Windows.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 1970s?
> > > > > 
> > > > > I think Tim refers to the DOS foundations of Windows.
> > > > 
> > > > dos wasn't 1970s and windows certainly wasn't.
> > > > 
> > > > however, the command line is.
> > > 
> > > This is true. What later became MS-DOS only started development in 1980.
> > 
> > QDOS (and PC-DOS 1.0) was modelled on CP/M, which was certainly 1970s.
> 
> But was there shared code? The 70's were before I was born (I'm 35),
> though I've often daydreamed of that exciting era of the very first
> personal computers.

It wasn't that exciting. In the 70s, much more exciting for me was
working on early high speed (1 to 5Mbps) data links, bootstrapping
PDP-11s over them, and downloading executable images. I did have an
Apple ][ in 1978, though.

-- 
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"  --  Bill of Rights 1689

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