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External SSD's

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  External SSD's Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-26 12:45 -0400
    Re: External SSD's Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-10-26 17:40 +0000
      Re: External SSD's Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-10-26 14:34 -0400
        Re: External SSD's Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-10-26 11:53 -0700
      Re: External SSD's Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-10-26 19:33 +0000
      Re: External SSD's Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-26 18:56 -0400
        Re: External SSD's Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-27 12:41 +1300
          Re: External SSD's Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-26 20:32 -0400
            Re: External SSD's Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-27 13:48 +1300

#50778 — External SSD's

Wow.

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/HELIOS1AE960/


-- 
"Quotation, n: The act of repeating erroneously the words of another."
                                                 -Ambrose Bierce

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#50780

On 2013-10-26, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
> Wow.
>
> http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/HELIOS1AE960/

I'd get one of these instead, personally:

<http://www.drobo.com/products/professionals/drobo-mini/>

-- 
Send responses to the relevant news group. E-mail sent to this address
may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to
prevent spammers from posting messages, I often ignore posts from
Google. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts.

JR

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#50785

On 10-26-2013, 13:40, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2013-10-26, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>> Wow.
>>
>> http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/HELIOS1AE960/

$1600 ?  Not for me.

> I'd get one of these instead, personally:
>
> <http://www.drobo.com/products/professionals/drobo-mini/>

$345 PLUS drives?  better, but still not for me.

Besides, I don't have lightning anyway, so an external SSD would be 
silly for me (going through a USB 2 bottleneck).

But if you still have money after buying the latest, go for it!


-- 
Wes Groleau

   Nutrition for Blokes: Re-engineering your diet for life
   http://www.phlaunt.com/quentin

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#50788

On 2013-10-26 18:34:37 +0000, Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> said:

> On 10-26-2013, 13:40, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2013-10-26, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>> Wow.
>>> 
>>> http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/HELIOS1AE960/
> 
> $1600 ?  Not for me.
> 
>> I'd get one of these instead, personally:
>> 
>> <http://www.drobo.com/products/professionals/drobo-mini/>
> 
> $345 PLUS drives?  better, but still not for me.
> 
> Besides, I don't have lightning anyway, so an external SSD would be 
> silly for me (going through a USB 2 bottleneck).

I have the same problem, that is why I am up to my ears in FW800 drives. ;-)
< http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/firewire/add-ons-and-hubs/enclosure-kits >


> 
> But if you still have money after buying the latest, go for it!


-- 
Regards,

Savageduck

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#50792

In message <bd2d48Fr8f4U1@mid.individual.net> 
  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2013-10-26, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Wow.
>>
>> http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/HELIOS1AE960/

> I'd get one of these instead, personally:

> <http://www.drobo.com/products/professionals/drobo-mini/>

That is tempting, but it's 4x2.5" drives, and 2.5" drives don't have
enough space and are too expensive at large(ish) sizes.

The 5D or 5N are pretty nice, but ... meh, Drobo.

-- 
I never read much; I have something else to do.

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#50814

On 2013.10.26, 13:40 , Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2013-10-26, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Wow.
>>
>> http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/HELIOS1AE960/
>
> I'd get one of these instead, personally:
>
> <http://www.drobo.com/products/professionals/drobo-mini/>

I'm sure you would.  I've been re-thinking the Drobo however - it is now 
a single point of failure issue for me.  Unlike David E. I don't know 
anyone operating one who I could go to if the Drobo fails to recover my 
data.  For all their lovely simplicity they are not ideal.  Disks fail - 
and I've had 3 go within 1 year - no problem.

I'm sure the Drobo with SSD must be nice.  But.

Short term storage (months/years) I can go to hard disks in cheap docks 
and have redundant copies (I do this anyway now with 2 x 2 TB drives 
each with the same content.  USB 2.0.  A USB 3.0 v. of the same setup 
would be more than fast enough for my needs.

There are new BluRay disks (BDXL) that can hold up to 128 GB of data 
(with the appropriate burner which costs about $100 or so).  So 
permanent-ish archives I'll move there and shorter work I'll probably 
move to a USB 3.0 dock with 2 or 4 slots and I'll simply make redundant 
copies (2 here, 1 offsite).

(There are even "stone" bases DVD's that have an estimated 1000 year 
retention - in all conditions.  About 950 more than I need.  "Only" 4.7 
GB however).

I haven't completely baked my off machine storage evolution scheme but I 
think my Drobo days will be over by mid-2014.  I'll probably sell it for 
more than I paid for it too (I sold the Droboshare abortion last year...)


-- 
"Quotation, n: The act of repeating erroneously the words of another."
                                                 -Ambrose Bierce

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#50819

In article <W9ednRFUF8861fHPnZ2dnUVZ_uadnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> On 2013.10.26, 13:40 , Jolly Roger wrote:
> > On 2013-10-26, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> >>
> >> Wow.
> >>
> >> http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/HELIOS1AE960/
> >
> > I'd get one of these instead, personally:
> >
> > <http://www.drobo.com/products/professionals/drobo-mini/>
> 
> I'm sure you would.  I've been re-thinking the Drobo however - it is now 
> a single point of failure issue for me.  Unlike David E. I don't know 
> anyone operating one who I could go to if the Drobo fails to recover my 
> data.  For all their lovely simplicity they are not ideal.  Disks fail - 
> and I've had 3 go within 1 year - no problem.

I've still got the original 15-year-old 4GB hard drive in my PowerMac
going perfectly well and never had any problems, other than running out
of space (I added a bigger 120GB hard drive to solve that).

But then I have also replaced failed hard drives in a few old CRT iMacs
over the years - in the case of one, I replaced the drive twice before
the owner upgraded to a new computer.

There are many reason which could cause a failure: an issue of the
technology being pushed too far with higher capcity drives, temperature
control issues in tightly packed computers, manufacturing fault, etc.




> I'm sure the Drobo with SSD must be nice.  But.

SSDs have a "limited" lifespan, similar to batteries and LCD / LED
displays, with a fairly "low" number of write cycles. That number is
unlikely to be a problem for normal users and those who upgrade their
computers / drives every few years, but for "pro" users or lots of data
transfers (such as continuous backup), they are not really a good
solution.




> Short term storage (months/years) I can go to hard disks in cheap docks 
> and have redundant copies (I do this anyway now with 2 x 2 TB drives 
> each with the same content.  USB 2.0.  A USB 3.0 v. of the same setup 
> would be more than fast enough for my needs.
> 
> There are new BluRay disks (BDXL) that can hold up to 128 GB of data 
> (with the appropriate burner which costs about $100 or so).  So 
> permanent-ish archives I'll move there and shorter work I'll probably 
> move to a USB 3.0 dock with 2 or 4 slots and I'll simply make redundant 
> copies (2 here, 1 offsite).

Writable and rewritable  CD / DVD discs aren't particularly reliable
for long-term storage. Some brands don't even last a couple of years
before the dyes used become useless. Even properly pressed CD / DVD
discs aren't the panacea of long-term storage they are sometimes
claimed to be.




> (There are even "stone" bases DVD's that have an estimated 1000 year 
> retention - in all conditions.  About 950 more than I need.  "Only" 4.7 
> GB however).

"Estimated" being the operative word. Other storage media (including
paper for printouts) has had claimed estimates which have already
proven to be complete nonsense, even in ideal conditions.

There's an advert running on TV here in New Zealand for some appliance
manufacturer where they try to claim they have great product testing
standards and that they open and close the door "the equivalent of" X
years use ... the problem is those tests are not realistic (nobody
opens and closes the door continuously for a start) and in real use the
door could simply fail for any number of reasons which the so-called
testing can't prove.

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#50833

On 2013.10.26, 19:41 , Your Name wrote:
> In article <W9ednRFUF8861fHPnZ2dnUVZ_uadnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2013.10.26, 13:40 , Jolly Roger wrote:
>>> On 2013-10-26, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Wow.
>>>>
>>>> http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/HELIOS1AE960/
>>>
>>> I'd get one of these instead, personally:
>>>
>>> <http://www.drobo.com/products/professionals/drobo-mini/>
>>
>> I'm sure you would.  I've been re-thinking the Drobo however - it is now
>> a single point of failure issue for me.  Unlike David E. I don't know
>> anyone operating one who I could go to if the Drobo fails to recover my
>> data.  For all their lovely simplicity they are not ideal.  Disks fail -
>> and I've had 3 go within 1 year - no problem.
>
> I've still got the original 15-year-old 4GB hard drive in my PowerMac
> going perfectly well and never had any problems, other than running out
> of space (I added a bigger 120GB hard drive to solve that).

I've abandoned drives that are no longer large enough.  At a camera swap 
meet I sold a pile of them (10, 20, 40 GB drives) at $5 a pop.  (yes, 
appropriately erased).
>
> SSDs have a "limited" lifespan, similar to batteries and LCD / LED
> displays, with a fairly "low" number of write cycles. That number is
> unlikely to be a problem for normal users and those who upgrade their
> computers / drives every few years, but for "pro" users or lots of data
> transfers (such as continuous backup), they are not really a good
> solution.

Most will do well in excess of 100,000 writes.  It's more complicated 
than that for a variety of reasons of course.  Wear leveling spreads 
that out significantly .

I've never known of a real case where flash wear has caused an issue.

With SSD's exploding in popularity it might pop up.  Soon.  Maybe.

>
> Writable and rewritable  CD / DVD discs aren't particularly reliable
> for long-term storage. Some brands don't even last a couple of years
> before the dyes used become useless. Even properly pressed CD / DVD
> discs aren't the panacea of long-term storage they are sometimes
> claimed to be.

I rewrite DVD's after 5 - 6 years.  No issues to date.  I had occasion 
to test a disk that I wrote 10 years earlier.  No issue.

If CD/DVD's are kept: cool, dry and dark, then they will last much 
longer than if exposed to heat OR moisture OR light - or of course any 
combos.



>
>> (There are even "stone" bases DVD's that have an estimated 1000 year
>> retention - in all conditions.  About 950 more than I need.  "Only" 4.7
>> GB however).
>
> "Estimated" being the operative word. Other storage media (including
> paper for printouts) has had claimed estimates which have already
> proven to be complete nonsense, even in ideal conditions.

Totally wrong.  Accelerated life cycle testing is a very good indicator 
of how a given storage media (including printed photos) will last.

>
> There's an advert running on TV here in New Zealand for some appliance
> manufacturer where they try to claim they have great product testing
> standards and that they open and close the door "the equivalent of" X
> years use ... the problem is those tests are not realistic (nobody
> opens and closes the door continuously for a start) and in real use the
> door could simply fail for any number of reasons which the so-called
> testing can't prove.


See accelerated life cycle testing where it applies to things like CD's, 
("gold") DVD's and so on.

Caveat: only get "gold" CD/DVD's from Japan or Taiwan.  If they are made 
in China or India they are likely not going to last.

-- 
"Quotation, n: The act of repeating erroneously the words of another."
                                                 -Ambrose Bierce

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#50837

In article <fPadna7AJs6WwvHPnZ2dnUVZ_qqdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> On 2013.10.26, 19:41 , Your Name wrote: 
> >
> > Writable and rewritable  CD / DVD discs aren't particularly reliable
> > for long-term storage. Some brands don't even last a couple of years
> > before the dyes used become useless. Even properly pressed CD / DVD
> > discs aren't the panacea of long-term storage they are sometimes
> > claimed to be.
> 
> I rewrite DVD's after 5 - 6 years.  No issues to date.  I had occasion 
> to test a disk that I wrote 10 years earlier.  No issue.
> 
> If CD/DVD's are kept: cool, dry and dark, then they will last much 
> longer than if exposed to heat OR moisture OR light - or of course any 
> combos.

The same could be said for most types of media.

Many people complained about floppy disks and Zip disks being error
prone, and yet I had extremely few issues with them and have some that
I've been using at least as long as I've had this 15-year-old Power
Mac, and some of the floppy disks are older than that (I have used them
on Windows PCs from time to time, so know the disks themselves do still
work).  :-)






> >> (There are even "stone" bases DVD's that have an estimated 1000 year
> >> retention - in all conditions.  About 950 more than I need.  "Only" 4.7
> >> GB however).
> >
> > "Estimated" being the operative word. Other storage media (including
> > paper for printouts) has had claimed estimates which have already
> > proven to be complete nonsense, even in ideal conditions.
> 
> Totally wrong.  Accelerated life cycle testing is a very good indicator 
> of how a given storage media (including printed photos) will last.

Many things that were claimed to have long life-spans have since proven
to be nothing like the claims - writeable / rewriteable CDs / DVD and
printer inks and paper are just two such examples - many of these were
claimed to last 100 years, and in some cases they didn't even last two
years.

The manufacturers often know they're telling a load of fibs. The TV
advert for the appliance I mentioned claims they're testing is the
"equivalent" of something like 10 years use, and yet they only give you
a five year warranty.

Acclerated testing doesn't prove anything useful (other than how
gullible the general public is), and proves even less about the
particular product you purchase - you can easily have one purchase that
lasts for years and another that fails within days.

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