Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #73487 > unrolled thread

How do mac users create a blank text file where you want it?

Started by	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
First post	2015-04-20 00:40 +0000
Last post	2015-04-22 09:09 -0700
Articles	20 on this page of 379 — 28 participants

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#73604

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 05:56 +0000
Message-ID	<mh24el$i5o$20@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#73585

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote in message
cpjeorF7dq8U13@mid.individual.net

> No conversion is needed. No preference settings are needed. Nothing
> unintuitive about it, considering TextEdit is designed primarily for
> rich text editing.

I apologize for misunderstanding but I believe I now understand the two 
suggested methods (neither of which is intuitive).

1. The preferences method
2. The two-menu method

The preferences method, we all agree, is suboptimal if the user wants to 
keep the option of saving to various formats easily available.

The two-menu method, while highly unintuitive, will keep all the options 
open to the user. The user merely needs to reconcile the use of the 
"format" menu versus use of the "save" menu, when deciding what type of 
file to save.

This menu sequence can save a new file to ASCII text:
1. Format > Make Plain/Rich Text, File > Save

This can't save a file to ASCII text (but it can save to other formats):
2. File > Save > File Format > {a variety of formats}

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#73612

From	Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date	2015-04-19 23:04 -0700
Message-ID	<190420152304578213%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to	#73604

In article <mh24el$i5o$20@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> I apologize for misunderstanding but I believe I now understand the two 
> suggested methods (neither of which is intuitive).
> 
> 1. The preferences method
> 2. The two-menu method

No, you do not understand.

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#73634

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 06:42 +0000
Message-ID	<mh273o$i5o$37@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#73612

Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
190420152304578213%michelle@michelle.org

> No, you do not understand.

What I (now) understand is that three methods were proposed, one of which 
is too limiting to be generally useful, and the other two are 
simultaneously needed in order to preserve the user's option of saving 
either *to* a plain text file, or *as* a variety of other formats.

1. Format > Make Plain Text, File > Save
2. File > Save > File Format > {other formats}

These unnatural distinctions were not obvious at the outset, and I will 
duly inform the Mac user of the approach those of you in the know use.

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#73653

From	jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date	2015-04-20 19:06 +1200
Message-ID	<1m36xuo.kxxgnk1e5a5a3N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to	#73634

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
> 190420152304578213%michelle@michelle.org
> 
> > No, you do not understand.
> 
> What I (now) understand is that three methods were proposed, one of which
> is too limiting to be generally useful, and the other two are 
> simultaneously needed in order to preserve the user's option of saving
> either *to* a plain text file, or *as* a variety of other formats.
> 
> 1. Format > Make Plain Text, File > Save
> 2. File > Save > File Format > {other formats}
> 
> These unnatural distinctions were not obvious at the outset, and I will
> duly inform the Mac user of the approach those of you in the know use.

Do you ever stop and wonder why life is so hard for yourself?
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#73672

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 07:27 +0000
Message-ID	<mh29oc$i5o$54@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#73653

jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote in message
1m36xuo.kxxgnk1e5a5a3N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz

> Do you ever stop and wonder why life is so hard for yourself?

Do you add any value to the conversation?

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#73682

From	jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date	2015-04-20 20:12 +1200
Message-ID	<1m370yq.1t5z00fxxyc92N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to	#73672

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote in message
> 1m36xuo.kxxgnk1e5a5a3N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz
> 
> > Do you ever stop and wonder why life is so hard for yourself?
> 
> Do you add any value to the conversation?

Do you ever consider learning how to use an OS before 'helping' someone
with it?
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#73723

From	Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date	2015-04-20 07:11 -0700
Message-ID	<200420150711128764%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to	#73634

In article <mh273o$i5o$37@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
> 190420152304578213%michelle@michelle.org
> 
> > No, you do not understand.
> 
> What I (now) understand is that three methods were proposed, one of which 
> is too limiting to be generally useful, and the other two are 
> simultaneously needed in order to preserve the user's option of saving 
> either *to* a plain text file, or *as* a variety of other formats.

As I said, you do not understand.

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#73580

From	Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date	2015-04-19 21:42 -0700
Message-ID	<190420152142210843%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to	#73563

In article <mh1tcl$i5o$6@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> I only belatedly realized, from something nospam said, that by adding
> the option to save ASCII text, may have concurrently *disabled* the option
> to "Save As"

You realized no such thing; where do you get such idiotic notions?

> > Once you have the document in plain text mode, you can save a plain text
> > file using File > Save. (The Save As dialog then offers a choice of
> > various plain text formats, including UTF-16, UTF-8 and various 8-bit
> > options with different character sets.)
> 
> Oh oh. That's bad news. That's what nospam intimated. So, if I
> understand you correctly, this user can't save ASCII text and still
> have the option to save as the other formats. 

No, you do not understand correctly.

> So, that means that tomorrow, I'll have to unset the option I set for
> this Macintosh user, and then tell the user that they have to save first
> into the wrong format, and then format into the right format (I'll have
> to test if ASCII text is one of the available right formats though).

Why in the world would you do that when it is completely unnecessary
and counterproductive?

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#73602

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 05:50 +0000
Message-ID	<mh242t$i5o$19@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#73580

Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
190420152142210843%michelle@michelle.org

> Why in the world would you do that when it is completely unnecessary and
> counterproductive?

The suggested preferences method hides options, while the suggested two-
menu method apparently keeps your options available, that's why.

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#73611

From	Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date	2015-04-19 23:04 -0700
Message-ID	<190420152304296494%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to	#73602

In article <mh242t$i5o$19@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
> 190420152142210843%michelle@michelle.org
> 
> > Why in the world would you do that when it is completely unnecessary and
> > counterproductive?
> 
> The suggested preferences method hides options, while the suggested two-
> menu method apparently keeps your options available, that's why.

Nothing hides any options.

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#73633

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 06:39 +0000
Message-ID	<mh26v0$i5o$36@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#73611

Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
190420152304296494%michelle@michelle.org

>> The suggested preferences method hides options, while the suggested
>> two-
>> menu method apparently keeps your options available, that's why.
> 
> Nothing hides any options.

Then you misunderstand the suggested preferences method.

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#73725

From	Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date	2015-04-20 07:09 -0700
Message-ID	<200420150709111529%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to	#73633

In article <mh26v0$i5o$36@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
> 190420152304296494%michelle@michelle.org
> 
> >> The suggested preferences method hides options, while the suggested
> >> two-menu method apparently keeps your options available, that's why.
> > 
> > Nothing hides any options.
> 
> Then you misunderstand the suggested preferences method.

I am not the person who is misunderstanding.

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#73734

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-04-20 14:23 +0000
Message-ID	<cpkgfpFg4haU8@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#73633

On 2015-04-20, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
> 190420152304296494%michelle@michelle.org
>
>>> The suggested preferences method hides options, while the suggested
>>> two-
>>> menu method apparently keeps your options available, that's why.
>> 
>> Nothing hides any options.
>
> Then you misunderstand the suggested preferences method.

No, *you* are misunderstanding just about everything you are being told.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#73640

From	jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date	2015-04-20 18:49 +1200
Message-ID	<1m36x5h.1c5gxph1miff7jN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to	#73611

Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> In article <mh242t$i5o$19@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
> <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> 
> > Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
> > 190420152142210843%michelle@michelle.org
> > 
> > > Why in the world would you do that when it is completely unnecessary and
> > > counterproductive?
> > 
> > The suggested preferences method hides options, while the suggested two-
> > menu method apparently keeps your options available, that's why.
> 
> Nothing hides any options.

Ok, I call it: confirmed troll. No one is this annoying dense, nor
pathetically incapable of learning.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#73669

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 07:26 +0000
Message-ID	<mh29ns$i5o$53@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#73640

jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote in message
1m36x5h.1c5gxph1miff7jN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz

> Ok, I call it: confirmed troll. No one is this annoying dense, nor
> pathetically incapable of learning.

You don't even understand what it is you're talking about, since it
has been confirmed numerous times already.

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#73712

From	Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date	2015-04-20 12:42 +0000
Message-ID	<slrnmj9t43.42i.g.kreme@amelia.local>
In reply to	#73640

In message <1m36x5h.1c5gxph1miff7jN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> 
  Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

>> In article <mh242t$i5o$19@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
>> <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>> 
>> > Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
>> > 190420152142210843%michelle@michelle.org
>> > 
>> > > Why in the world would you do that when it is completely unnecessary and
>> > > counterproductive?
>> > 
>> > The suggested preferences method hides options, while the suggested two-
>> > menu method apparently keeps your options available, that's why.
>> 
>> Nothing hides any options.

> Ok, I call it: confirmed troll. No one is this annoying dense, nor
> pathetically incapable of learning.

It's the same old troll too.

-- 
He wasn't good or evil or cruel or extreme in any way but one, which was
that he had elevated greyness to the status of a fine art and cultivated
a mind that was as bleak and pitiless and logical as the slopes of Hell.

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#73753

From	Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net>
Date	2015-04-20 15:41 +0100
Message-ID	<200420151541556247%timstreater@greenbee.net>
In reply to	#73712

In article <slrnmj9t43.42i.g.kreme@amelia.local>, Lewis
<g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

>In message <1m36x5h.1c5gxph1miff7jN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> 
>  Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
>> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>
>>> In article <mh242t$i5o$19@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
>>> <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> > Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
>>> > 190420152142210843%michelle@michelle.org
>>> > 
>>> > > Why in the world would you do that when it is completely unnecessary and
>>> > > counterproductive?
>>> > 
>>> > The suggested preferences method hides options, while the suggested two-
>>> > menu method apparently keeps your options available, that's why.
>>> 
>>> Nothing hides any options.
>
>> Ok, I call it: confirmed troll. No one is this annoying dense, nor
>> pathetically incapable of learning.
>
>It's the same old troll too.

Well it might be Harry Worth, I suppose.

-- 
"A committee is a cul-de-sac down which ideas are lured and then 
 quietly strangled." - Sir Barnett Cocks (1907-1989)

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#73693

From	Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net>
Date	2015-04-20 10:18 +0100
Message-ID	<200420151018595591%timstreater@greenbee.net>
In reply to	#73529

In article <mh1p75$3dm$14@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
>190420152233070791nospamospam@nospam.invalid
>
>>> And that saves an ASCII text file?
>> 
>> if you set the app to text it does.
>> 
>> are you even reading what people write??
>
>Everyone says that TextEdit can save ASCII text.
>I'm fine with that.
>
>If someone could just answer this question, we'd be done with this thread.
>
>Which of these options is the TextEdit ASCII text option?
>http://i.imgur.com/FDYa45h.png

You're asking the wrong question. But I expect you know that by now.

-- 
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without 
evidence."
-- Christopher Hitchens

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#73557

From	Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date	2015-04-20 03:35 +0000
Message-ID	<slrnmj8t1d.1eq.g.kreme@amelia.local>
In reply to	#73509

In message <mh1od0$3dm$8@news.albasani.net> 
  Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> 190420152222191866nospamospam@nospam.invalid

>> it takes 3 steps:
>> launch app 
>> paste
>> save

> And that saves an ASCII text file?

Yes.

-- 
You know, Rick, I have many a friend in Casablanca, but somehow, just
because you despise me, you are the only one I trust.

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#73584

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 04:47 +0000
Message-ID	<mh20co$i5o$11@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#73557

Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote in message
slrnmj8t1d.1eq.g.kreme@amelia.local

>>> it takes 3 steps:
>>> launch app paste save
> 
>> And that saves an ASCII text file?
> 
> Yes.

Actually, I know know how it works, based on what David Empson (et al.) 
intimated, which is that it's far more steps if you *also* want to 
preserve the option to save *as* other formats in addition to being able 
to save *to* ASCII.

Basically, the use model the Mac users employ with the default text 
editor to enable *either* ASCII text or the other available formats is 
either to temporarily save to the wrong format and then convert to the 
desired ASCII format, or, to temporarily set the preferences to only save 
to ASCII text, and then unset the preferences once done.

Given that seems to be what everyone is intimating, there are far more
than three steps if you want to preserve your options. 

However, I do agree, if you give up on your options, you can manage to 
get the default text editor to save to ASCII text in just 3 steps.

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csiph-web

How do mac users create a blank text file where you want it?

Contents

#73604

#73612

#73634

#73653

#73672

#73682

#73723

#73580

#73602

#73611

#73633

#73725

#73734

#73640

#73669

#73712

#73753

#73693

#73557

#73584