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Grammar Gripe

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  Grammar Gripe Salmon Egg <SalmonEgg@sbcglobal.net> - 2013-12-21 11:21 -0800
    Re: Grammar Gripe Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-12-21 21:09 +0000
      Re: Grammar Gripe Siri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2013-12-21 13:15 -0800
      Re: Grammar Gripe Salmon Egg <SalmonEgg@sbcglobal.net> - 2013-12-21 13:41 -0800
        Re: Grammar Gripe Salmon Egg <SalmonEgg@sbcglobal.net> - 2013-12-21 13:54 -0800
          Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-22 11:21 +1300
            Re: Grammar Gripe Salmon Egg <SalmonEgg@sbcglobal.net> - 2013-12-21 18:36 -0800
              Re: Grammar Gripe Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2013-12-22 16:45 -0500
                Re: Grammar Gripe Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-12-22 23:35 +0000
              Re: Grammar Gripe Wes Groleau <Usenet@Grolea.us> - 2013-12-23 00:44 -0500
                Re: Grammar Gripe Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-12-23 23:47 -0500
              Re: Grammar Gripe John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2013-12-22 21:58 -0800
              Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-23 09:13 -0800
                Re: Grammar Gripe Salmon Egg <SalmonEgg@sbcglobal.net> - 2013-12-24 16:45 -0800
            Re: Grammar Gripe "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2013-12-22 23:38 -0500
              Re: Grammar Gripe John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2013-12-22 21:58 -0800
                Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-23 19:09 +1300
                  Re: Grammar Gripe John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2013-12-23 09:05 -0800
                  Re: Grammar Gripe "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2013-12-23 18:58 -0500
                    Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-24 14:06 +1300
                      Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-23 18:36 -0800
                        Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-24 18:14 +1300
                          Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-24 07:56 -0800
                            Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-25 09:14 +1300
                              Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-24 14:19 -0800
                                Re: Grammar Gripe JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-12-24 17:45 -0500
                                  Re: Grammar Gripe Martin Frost me at invalid stanford daht edu <nospam@stanford.edu.invalid> - 2013-12-25 01:43 -0800
                                    Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-25 08:58 -0800
                        Re: Grammar Gripe Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2013-12-24 00:29 -0500
                          Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-24 18:51 +1300
                            Re: Grammar Gripe Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2013-12-24 00:59 -0500
                              Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-24 19:14 +1300
                              Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-24 07:59 -0800
                                Re: Grammar Gripe John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2013-12-24 12:07 -0800
                                  Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-25 09:36 +1300
                                    Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-12-24 12:52 -0800
                                      Re: Grammar Gripe J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-24 16:31 -0500
                                      Re: Grammar Gripe Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2013-12-24 17:11 -0500
                                        Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-24 14:49 -0800
                                        Re: Grammar Gripe Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-12-24 23:56 +0000
                                      Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-24 14:15 -0800
                                        Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-12-24 16:59 -0800
                                          Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-25 17:22 +1300
                                      Re: Grammar Gripe "Ed H." <fake@notreal.net> - 2013-12-27 13:30 -0600
                                Re: Grammar Gripe me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2013-12-24 22:02 +0000
                                  Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-24 14:20 -0800
                          Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-24 07:58 -0800
                            Re: Grammar Gripe Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2013-12-24 12:47 -0500
                              Re: Grammar Gripe Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-12-24 13:09 -0500
                                Re: Grammar Gripe John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2013-12-24 12:09 -0800
                                  Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-12-24 12:18 -0800
                                  Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-25 09:38 +1300
                                  Re: Grammar Gripe Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-12-24 17:18 -0500
                                    Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-24 14:52 -0800
                                      Re: Grammar Gripe Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-12-24 18:44 -0500
                                        Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-12-24 17:03 -0800
                                          Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-25 17:24 +1300
                                        Re: Grammar Gripe JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-12-24 23:05 -0500
                                          Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-25 17:50 +1300
                                            Re: Grammar Gripe Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2013-12-25 13:28 -0500
                                    Re: Grammar Gripe John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2013-12-24 15:52 -0800
                                      Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-25 13:54 +1300
                                        Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-12-24 17:10 -0800
                                          Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-25 17:26 +1300
                                      Re: Grammar Gripe me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2013-12-25 04:34 +0000
                                        Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-25 17:52 +1300
                                      Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-24 21:34 -0800
                                Re: Grammar Gripe Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2013-12-24 15:16 -0500
                                Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-24 14:11 -0800
                                  Re: Grammar Gripe Paul Magnussen <magiconinc@earthlink.net> - 2013-12-26 19:00 -0800
                                    Re: Grammar Gripe J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-27 08:20 -0500
                                    Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-27 10:48 -0800
                                      Re: Grammar Gripe Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-12-27 18:52 -0500
                                      Re: Grammar Gripe Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2013-12-28 10:20 -0500
                                        Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-28 10:50 -0800
                                      Re: Grammar Gripe Paul Magnussen <magiconinc@earthlink.net> - 2013-12-28 09:27 -0800
                                        Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-28 10:51 -0800
                                          Re: Grammar Gripe Paul Magnussen <magiconinc@earthlink.net> - 2013-12-28 13:07 -0800
                                            Re: Semantics Gripe Laszlo Lebrun <lazlo_lebrun@googlemail.com> - 2013-12-29 18:17 +0100
                                              Re: Semantics Gripe J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-29 12:34 -0500
                                                Re: Semantics Gripe Siri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2013-12-29 14:53 -0800
                                              Re: Semantics Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-29 10:56 -0800
                                                Re: Semantics Gripe Laszlo Lebrun <lazlo_lebrun@googlemail.com> - 2013-12-29 21:55 +0100
                              Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-24 14:04 -0800
                                Re: Grammar Gripe Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2013-12-26 16:28 -0500
                          Re: Grammar Gripe "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2013-12-24 18:22 -0500
                            Re: Grammar Gripe Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-12-25 00:02 +0000
                            Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-25 13:15 +1300
                              Re: Grammar Gripe "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2013-12-26 23:30 -0500
                                Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-27 10:51 -0800
                                  Re: Grammar Gripe "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2013-12-27 18:36 -0500
                                    Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-27 21:08 -0800
                      Re: Grammar Gripe "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2013-12-24 18:03 -0500
                  Re: Grammar Gripe Barry OGrady <atheist@hotmail.com.au> - 2014-01-01 17:55 +1100
                  Re: Grammar Gripe Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-01 11:41 -0700
                    Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2014-01-01 11:29 -0800
                      Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-01-02 09:10 +1300
                        Re: Grammar Gripe Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-01 13:49 -0700
                        Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2014-01-01 15:38 -0800
                          Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-01-02 13:16 +1300
                            Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2014-01-01 17:31 -0800
                          Re: Grammar Gripe Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-01-02 09:10 +0000
                            Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2014-01-02 11:47 -0800
                              Re: Grammar Gripe Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-01-02 22:17 +0000
                                Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2014-01-02 15:29 -0800
                                Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-02 18:33 -0800
                      Re: Grammar Gripe Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-01 13:46 -0700
                        Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2014-01-01 15:41 -0800
              Re: Grammar Gripe Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-12-23 23:42 -0500
                Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-24 08:03 -0800
          Re: Grammar Gripe bob <rcp27g@gmail.com> - 2013-12-22 10:49 +0000
            Re: Grammar Gripe "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net> - 2013-12-22 16:54 +0000
            Re: Grammar Gripe Barry OGrady <atheist@hotmail.com.au> - 2013-12-26 10:37 +1100
              Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-26 18:32 +1300
                Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-12-26 05:36 -0800
                  Re: Grammar Gripe Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-12-26 09:30 -0500
              Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-31 18:35 +1300
          Re: Grammar Gripe Barry OGrady <atheist@hotmail.com.au> - 2013-12-23 10:59 +1100
        Re: Grammar Gripe Paul Magnussen <magiconinc@earthlink.net> - 2013-12-22 11:34 -0800
          Re: Grammar Gripe Wes Groleau <Usenet@Grolea.us> - 2013-12-23 00:45 -0500
      Re: Grammar Gripe Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-12-22 04:58 +0000
    Re: Grammar Gripe Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2013-12-21 20:11 -0500
    Re: Grammar Gripe me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2013-12-22 15:43 +0000
      Re: Grammar Gripe Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-12-22 11:53 -0500
        Re: Grammar Gripe Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-12-22 22:35 +0000
          Re: Grammar Gripe Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2013-12-22 18:08 -0500
            Re: Grammar Gripe Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-12-23 09:07 +0000
              Re: Grammar Gripe JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-12-23 04:12 -0500
              Re: Grammar Gripe Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-12-23 15:15 +0000
                Re: Grammar Gripe Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-12-23 15:39 +0000
                  Re: Grammar Gripe Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-12-23 18:46 +0000
                  Re: Grammar Gripe Wes Groleau <Usenet@Grolea.us> - 2013-12-23 21:03 -0500
                    Re: Grammar Gripe J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-24 04:52 -0500
          Re: Grammar Gripe John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2013-12-22 22:02 -0800
          Re: Grammar Gripe Wes Groleau <Usenet@Grolea.us> - 2013-12-23 01:04 -0500
            Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-23 19:41 +1300
            Re: Grammar Gripe Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2013-12-23 11:27 -0500
              Re: Grammar Gripe Paul Magnussen <magiconinc@earthlink.net> - 2013-12-23 09:55 -0800
              Re: Grammar Gripe JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-12-23 13:33 -0500
                Re: Grammar Gripe Wes Groleau <Usenet@Grolea.us> - 2013-12-23 21:05 -0500
              Re: Grammar Gripe Wes Groleau <Usenet@Grolea.us> - 2013-12-23 21:04 -0500
                Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-23 18:40 -0800
                  Re: Grammar Gripe Wes Groleau <Usenet@Grolea.us> - 2013-12-23 22:19 -0500
                    Re: Grammar Gripe Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2013-12-24 10:15 -0500
                    Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-24 08:01 -0800
        Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-12-22 15:10 -0800
          Re: Grammar Gripe J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-22 18:23 -0500
            Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-12-22 15:29 -0800
          Re: Grammar Gripe Wes Groleau <Usenet@Grolea.us> - 2013-12-23 00:49 -0500
            Re: Grammar Gripe J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-23 02:35 -0500
    Re: Grammar Gripe Matthew Lybanon <lybanon@earthlink.net> - 2013-12-22 10:32 -0600
      Re: Grammar Gripe J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-22 12:36 -0500
      Re: Grammar Gripe Paul Magnussen <magiconinc@earthlink.net> - 2013-12-22 11:40 -0800
        Re: Grammar Gripe J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-22 16:06 -0500
          Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-12-22 15:18 -0800
            Re: Grammar Gripe Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-12-22 23:41 +0000
              Re: Grammar Gripe Paul Magnussen <magiconinc@earthlink.net> - 2013-12-23 09:26 -0800
                Re: Grammar Gripe Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-12-23 18:47 +0000
            Re: Grammar Gripe Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-12-23 23:39 -0500
              Re: Grammar Gripe Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2013-12-24 00:46 -0500
                Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-24 19:10 +1300
                Re: Grammar Gripe Salmon Egg <SalmonEgg@sbcglobal.net> - 2013-12-25 04:34 -0800
                  Re: Grammar Gripe J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-25 14:17 -0500
                    Re: Grammar Gripe Salmon Egg <SalmonEgg@sbcglobal.net> - 2013-12-25 18:36 -0800
                    Re: Grammar Gripe Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2013-12-26 01:18 -0500
                      Re: Grammar Gripe J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-26 07:59 -0500
                        Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-12-26 05:41 -0800
                          Re: Grammar Gripe Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2013-12-26 09:53 -0500
                            Re: Grammar Gripe JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-12-26 21:27 -0500
                              Re: Grammar Gripe Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2013-12-27 02:06 -0500
                                Re: Grammar Gripe Joe W DiDomenico <joedid@outlook.com> - 2013-12-27 08:03 -0500
                                  Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-27 10:43 -0800
                            Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-12-26 19:16 -0800
                              Re: Grammar Gripe Joe W DiDomenico <joedid@outlook.com> - 2013-12-27 08:04 -0500
                          Re: Grammar Gripe Barry OGrady <atheist@hotmail.com.au> - 2014-04-19 20:00 +1000
                            Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-04-19 10:42 -0700
                        Re: Grammar Gripe Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2013-12-26 09:52 -0500
                          Re: Grammar Gripe J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-26 10:44 -0500
                            Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-26 10:00 -0800
                              Re: Grammar Gripe henry999@eircom.net (Henry) - 2013-12-27 13:22 +0200
                                Re: Grammar Gripe Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2013-12-27 10:18 -0500
                                  Re: Grammar Gripe me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2013-12-27 15:57 +0000
                                  Re: Grammar Gripe henry999@eircom.net (Henry) - 2013-12-27 18:34 +0200
                                    Re: Grammar Gripe Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2013-12-27 12:43 -0500
                                      Re: Grammar Gripe John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2013-12-28 14:41 -0800
                                    Re: Grammar Gripe Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-12-28 11:00 -0500
                                Re: Grammar Gripe Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-12-28 10:57 -0500
                                  Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-12-28 09:11 -0800
                                  Re: Grammar Gripe J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-28 14:18 -0500
                                    Re: Grammar Gripe Joe Di Domenico <joedid@email.com> - 2013-12-28 14:46 -0500
                                  Re: Grammar Gripe henry999@eircom.net (Henry) - 2013-12-31 11:54 +0200
                                    Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-31 10:47 -0800
                                    Re: Grammar Gripe Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-12-31 14:13 -0500
                                      Re: Grammar Gripe Barry OGrady <atheist@hotmail.com.au> - 2014-04-19 20:04 +1000
                                        Re: Grammar Gripe JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-04-19 15:55 -0400
                                          Re: Grammar Gripe Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-04-19 21:20 +0100
                                            Re: Grammar Gripe Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2014-04-19 17:21 -0400
                                              Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-04-19 17:22 -0700
                                                Re: Grammar Gripe me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2014-04-20 03:16 +0000
                                                  Re: Grammar Gripe JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-04-20 00:00 -0400
                                      Re: Grammar Gripe Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2014-04-19 08:40 -0400
                                        Re: Grammar Gripe Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2014-04-19 10:54 -0400
                              Re: Grammar Gripe Barry OGrady <atheist@hotmail.com.au> - 2014-04-19 20:02 +1000
                                Re: Grammar Gripe Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2014-04-19 08:34 -0400
                                  Re: Grammar Gripe billy@MIX.COM - 2014-04-19 15:09 +0000
                                  Re: Grammar Gripe dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2014-04-20 08:51 +1000
                                    Re: Grammar Gripe Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2014-04-19 22:37 -0400
                                    Re: Grammar Gripe Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-04-20 12:36 +0200
                                      Re: Grammar Gripe Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-04-20 07:03 -0700
                                        Re: Grammar Gripe Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-04-20 17:33 +0200
                                    Re: Grammar Gripe Joe Wolf Dee <joedid@email.com> - 2014-04-21 07:57 -0400
                                  Re: Grammar Gripe Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-04-20 03:23 +0200
                                  Re: Grammar Gripe me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2014-04-20 03:11 +0000
                                    Re: Grammar Gripe Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2014-04-27 09:35 -0400
                                Re: Grammar Gripe JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-04-19 15:51 -0400
                            Re: Grammar Gripe Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2013-12-26 15:56 -0500
                              Re: Grammar Gripe J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-26 17:07 -0500
                                Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-27 12:05 +1300
                          Re: Grammar Gripe Leonard Blaisdell <leoblaisdell@sbcglobal.net> - 2013-12-27 21:52 -0800
                            Re: Grammar Gripe Joe W DiDomenico <joedid@outlook.com> - 2013-12-28 09:48 -0500
                              Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-28 10:47 -0800
                        Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-26 09:48 -0800
                        Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-27 09:38 +1300
                  Re: Grammar Gripe Barry OGrady <atheist@hotmail.com.au> - 2014-04-19 19:59 +1000
                Re: Grammar Gripe Barry OGrady <atheist@hotmail.com.au> - 2014-04-19 19:58 +1000
              Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-12-23 22:18 -0800
                Re: Grammar Gripe Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2013-12-24 04:06 -0500
                  Re: Grammar Gripe me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2013-12-24 14:19 +0000
                    Re: Grammar Gripe J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-24 10:17 -0500
                      Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-24 08:03 -0800
                      Re: Grammar Gripe Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-12-24 13:14 -0500
                        Re: Grammar Gripe Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-12-24 20:01 +0000
                        Re: Grammar Gripe J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-24 15:19 -0500
                      Re: Grammar Gripe John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2013-12-24 12:14 -0800
                        Re: Grammar Gripe J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-24 16:05 -0500
                          Re: Grammar Gripe John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2013-12-24 15:55 -0800
                          Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-25 13:07 +1300
                        Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-12-24 17:08 -0800
                          Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-25 17:25 +1300
                          Re: Grammar Gripe John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2013-12-28 14:46 -0800
                    Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-25 09:11 +1300
                    Re: Grammar Gripe Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2013-12-24 20:54 -0500
                  Re: Grammar Gripe Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-12-24 13:00 -0500
                    Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-12-24 10:21 -0800
                  Re: Grammar Gripe John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2013-12-24 12:12 -0800
                    Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-25 09:40 +1300
                      Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-12-24 13:37 -0800
                  Re: Grammar Gripe Salmon Egg <SalmonEgg@sbcglobal.net> - 2013-12-25 04:42 -0800
                Re: Grammar Gripe Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-12-24 16:20 +0000
                  Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-12-24 09:49 -0800
                    Re: Grammar Gripe Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-12-24 19:59 +0000
                    Re: Grammar Gripe Matthew Lybanon <lybanon@earthlink.net> - 2013-12-24 15:38 -0600
                      Re: Grammar Gripe Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2013-12-24 21:04 -0500
              Re: Grammar Gripe Salmon Egg <SalmonEgg@sbcglobal.net> - 2013-12-24 20:03 -0800
                Re: Grammar Gripe Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2013-12-25 10:53 -0500
                  Re: Grammar Gripe Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-12-25 11:17 -0500
              Re: Grammar Gripe Barry OGrady <atheist@hotmail.com.au> - 2014-04-19 19:55 +1000
                Re: Grammar Gripe Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-04-19 13:42 +0000
                  Re: Grammar Gripe Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-04-19 06:52 -0700
                  Re: Grammar Gripe dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2014-04-20 09:24 +1000
                  Re: Grammar Gripe Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2014-04-19 22:35 -0400
                    Re: Grammar Gripe JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-04-19 23:56 -0400
                      Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-04-19 21:02 -0700
                      Re: Grammar Gripe Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-04-19 21:16 -0700
                    Re: Grammar Gripe Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-04-20 13:43 +0100
            Re: Grammar Gripe Barry OGrady <atheist@hotmail.com.au> - 2013-12-28 16:34 +1100
              Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-28 18:39 +1300
              Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-28 10:45 -0800
              Re: Grammar Gripe John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2013-12-28 14:57 -0800
        Re: Grammar Gripe Laszlo Lebrun <lazlo_lebrun@googlemail.com> - 2013-12-22 23:36 +0100
          Re: Grammar Gripe Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-12-22 22:54 +0000
            Re: Grammar Gripe Laszlo Lebrun <lazlo_lebrun@googlemail.com> - 2013-12-23 03:20 +0100
              Re: Grammar Gripe John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2013-12-22 22:07 -0800
                Re: Grammar Gripe Laszlo Lebrun <lazlo_lebrun@googlemail.com> - 2013-12-23 09:56 +0100
                  Re: Grammar Gripe JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-12-23 04:10 -0500
      Re: Grammar Gripe Paul Magnussen <magiconinc@earthlink.net> - 2013-12-22 11:45 -0800
      Re: Grammar Gripe Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-12-22 23:38 +0000
      Re: Grammar Gripe Wes Groleau <Usenet@Grolea.us> - 2013-12-23 00:50 -0500
      Re: Grammar Gripe Barry OGrady <atheist@hotmail.com.au> - 2013-12-28 16:24 +1100
        Re: Grammar Gripe Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-12-28 08:55 +0000
          Re: Grammar Gripe JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-12-28 04:27 -0500
            Re: Grammar Gripe Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-12-28 10:09 +0000
              Re: Grammar Gripe Joe W DiDomenico <joedid@outlook.com> - 2013-12-28 09:39 -0500
                Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-28 10:37 -0800
                Re: Grammar Gripe dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2013-12-29 08:18 +1100
                  Re: Grammar Gripe Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-12-28 22:36 +0000
                    Re: Grammar Gripe dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2013-12-29 15:07 +1100
                Re: Grammar Gripe Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2013-12-28 17:27 -0500
                  Re: Grammar Gripe Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-12-30 04:24 +0000
                    Re: Grammar Gripe dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2013-12-30 17:34 +1100
                    Re: Grammar Gripe Laszlo Lebrun <lazlo_lebrun@googlemail.com> - 2013-12-30 10:04 +0100
                      Re: Grammar Gripe J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-30 10:31 -0500
                        Re: Grammar Gripe Laszlo Lebrun <lazlo_lebrun@googlemail.com> - 2013-12-30 19:25 +0100
                          Re: Grammar Gripe J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-30 13:56 -0500
                          Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-12-30 11:48 -0800
                  Re: Grammar Gripe me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2014-01-02 15:10 +0000
                    Re: Grammar Gripe Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> - 2014-01-03 01:21 +0000
                      Re: Grammar Gripe J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2014-01-02 21:21 -0500
            Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-28 10:34 -0800
          Re: Grammar Gripe dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2013-12-28 22:17 +1100
          Re: Grammar Gripe Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-12-28 11:06 -0500
            Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-12-28 09:15 -0800
              Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-29 09:42 +1300
              Re: Grammar Gripe Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-12-28 16:08 -0500
                Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-12-28 14:01 -0800
                  Re: Grammar Gripe Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-12-28 17:49 -0500
                    Re: Grammar Gripe J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-28 18:04 -0500
                      Re: Grammar Gripe Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-12-28 19:06 -0500
                        Re: Grammar Gripe J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-28 22:17 -0500
                          Re: Grammar Gripe Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-12-28 22:38 -0500
                            Re: Grammar Gripe JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-12-29 01:12 -0500
                    Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-28 21:41 -0800
              Re: Grammar Gripe Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-12-30 04:27 +0000
                Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-12-30 00:51 -0800
                  Re: Grammar Gripe Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2013-12-30 01:54 -0800
                    Re: Grammar Gripe J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-30 11:57 -0500
                  Re: Grammar Gripe John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2013-12-30 07:39 -0800
                  Re: Grammar Gripe Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-12-30 08:55 -0700
                    Re: Grammar Gripe JoeWolfDee <joedid@email.com> - 2013-12-30 11:13 -0500
                      Re: Grammar Gripe JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-12-30 17:11 -0500
                        Re: Grammar Gripe Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-12-30 18:29 -0700
                          Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-30 17:32 -0800
                            Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-31 15:56 +1300
                              Re: Grammar Gripe Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-12-30 21:32 -0700
                                Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-12-30 20:44 -0800
                                  Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-31 18:25 +1300
                                    Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-12-30 22:41 -0800
                                      Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-31 10:41 -0800
                                Re: Grammar Gripe Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-12-31 15:27 +0000
                                  Re: Grammar Gripe Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-12-31 14:42 -0700
                              Re: Grammar Gripe JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-12-31 02:33 -0500
                                Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-31 10:42 -0800
                                  Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-01-01 09:50 +1300
                                  Re: Grammar Gripe Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-12-31 14:24 -0700
                                    Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-31 14:51 -0800
                                    Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-12-31 17:09 -0800
                                      Re: Grammar Gripe Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-01 09:34 +0000
                                  Re: Grammar Gripe John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2014-01-10 18:16 -0800
                            Re: Grammar Gripe Laszlo Lebrun <lazlo_lebrun@googlemail.com> - 2013-12-31 13:04 +0100
                      Re: Grammar Gripe Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> - 2013-12-31 03:03 +0000
                        Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-12-30 20:44 -0800
                          Re: Grammar Gripe John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2014-01-10 18:20 -0800
                            Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-01-11 16:17 +1300
                        Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-31 18:29 +1300
                        Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-31 10:46 -0800
                          Re: Grammar Gripe Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-12-31 14:31 -0500
                            Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-31 12:42 -0800
                  Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-30 09:27 -0800
                    Re: Grammar Gripe Laszlo Lebrun <lazlo_lebrun@googlemail.com> - 2013-12-30 19:29 +0100
                      Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-12-30 11:52 -0800
                        Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-30 16:12 -0800
                  Re: Grammar Gripe Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-12-30 17:53 +0000
            Re: Grammar Gripe dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2013-12-29 08:01 +1100
        Re: Grammar Gripe J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-28 05:31 -0500
          Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-28 10:39 -0800
            Re: Grammar Gripe J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-28 14:38 -0500
              Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-28 12:55 -0800
                Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-29 10:28 +1300
                Re: Grammar Gripe Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-12-28 17:59 -0500
                  Re: Grammar Gripe Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2013-12-28 18:58 -0500
                    Re: Grammar Gripe Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-12-28 23:26 -0500
                    Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-28 21:46 -0800
                      Re: Grammar Gripe JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-12-29 01:21 -0500
        Re: Grammar Gripe Paul Magnussen <magiconinc@earthlink.net> - 2013-12-28 09:23 -0800
          Re: Grammar Gripe dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2013-12-29 08:44 +1100
        Re: Grammar Gripe Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-12-30 04:22 +0000
          Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-29 21:13 -0800
            Re: Grammar Gripe Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-12-30 00:21 -0500
              Re: Grammar Gripe Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-12-29 22:44 -0700
              Re: Grammar Gripe Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2013-12-29 21:49 -0800
                Re: Grammar Gripe Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-12-30 09:26 +0000
            Re: Grammar Gripe J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-30 12:14 -0500
              Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-30 09:23 -0800
                Re: Grammar Gripe J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-30 12:51 -0500
                  Re: Grammar Gripe gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-30 16:11 -0800
                    Re: Grammar Gripe J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-30 21:13 -0500
              Re: Grammar Gripe Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-12-30 11:54 -0800
                Re: Grammar Gripe JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-12-30 17:26 -0500
                  Re: Grammar Gripe Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-12-30 22:41 +0000
                    Re: Grammar Gripe JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-12-30 18:11 -0500
                      Re: Grammar Gripe Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-12-30 23:25 +0000
          Re: Grammar Gripe Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-12-29 22:37 -0700
            Re: Uniqueness Laszlo Lebrun <lazlo_lebrun@googlemail.com> - 2013-12-31 13:21 +0100
              Re: Uniqueness gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-31 10:52 -0800
              Re: Uniqueness Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-12-31 14:47 -0700
                Re: Uniqueness gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-12-31 14:55 -0800
                Re: Uniqueness Laszlo Lebrun <lazlo_lebrun@googlemail.com> - 2014-01-01 00:32 +0100
    Re: Grammar Gripe Laszlo Lebrun <lazlo_lebrun@googlemail.com> - 2013-12-22 23:33 +0100
    Re: Grammar Gripe Barry OGrady <atheist@hotmail.com.au> - 2013-12-23 10:57 +1100
    Re: Grammar Gripe bob <rcp27g@gmail.com> - 2013-12-23 00:00 +0000
    Re: Grammar Gripe RonTheGuy@null.invalid (Ron) - 2013-12-27 21:36 -0800
      Re: Grammar Gripe Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-28 18:55 +1300

Page 13 of 20 — ← Prev page 1 … 11 12 [13] 14 15 … 20  Next page →

#53785

In article <l9c56f$roq$1@dont-email.me>, Király <me@home.spamsucks.ca>
wrote:
> Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> > Not realizing that much of natural language is metaphorical is a reason 
> > for many of these peeves. The people who think that "decimate" can only 
> > refer to killing 90% of the population don't understand that it long ago 
> > lost its original Latin meaning, and just adopted the metaphorical 
> > meaning of killing large numbers.
> 
> The odd thing about English is that it's the only major language without 
> an official regulator. No dictionary, style guide, thesaurus, or grammar 
> textbook is official or authoritative. It's just an opinion. No body has 
> the authority to decide for the rest of us what is and isn't correct 
> meaning and usage. We all make those decisions together and they change 
> over time.

Yep, and that makes it a pain in th "ass" (and I don't mean the donkey,
which is the correct meaning of the word) for people talking to each
other, and even worse for those trying to learn the language.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#53832

In article <l9c56f$roq$1@dont-email.me>, me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) 
wrote:

> Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> > Not realizing that much of natural language is metaphorical is a reason 
> > for many of these peeves. The people who think that "decimate" can only 
> > refer to killing 90% of the population don't understand that it long ago 
> > lost its original Latin meaning, and just adopted the metaphorical 
> > meaning of killing large numbers.
> 
> The odd thing about English is that it's the only major language without 
> an official regulator. No dictionary, style guide, thesaurus, or grammar 
> textbook is official or authoritative. It's just an opinion. No body has 
> the authority to decide for the rest of us what is and isn't correct 
> meaning and usage. We all make those decisions together and they change 
> over time.

Even when languages have such bodies, they only have limited power. They 
might govern how language is used in formal documents, but they can't 
really control how it's used on the street.

The most well known is probably l'Academie Francaise. They tried to stop 
"le weekend", "les bluejeans", and other "franglais" terms, but without 
much success.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

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#53773

Davoud: 
> > > One of my favorite error, in fact, possibly the largest error that can
> > > be. A quantum leap is said to be a huge difference, a sea change. In
> > > fact, the quantum is the smallest possible size, or quantity, in the
> > > Universe. A quantum leap would be a "leap" of 1.62 X 10E-35 meters--the
> > > Planck length, the smallest distance that can be.

Barry Margolin:
> So you also don't understand that when the term is being used in common 
> language it's a metaphor, not a literal reference to the physical 
> process in quantum mechanics.

> Not realizing that much of natural language is metaphorical is a reason 
> for many of these peeves.

I am a master of metaphorical and figurative speech. A phrase such as
"quantum leap," which derives from ignorance, is not comparable to a
word such as "wicked," which may mean very bad or very good.

NONETHELESS, if "quantum leap" were used to mean only an abrupt change,
and not a large change, I yield the point. But the inclusion of "leap"
implies a large change, not an abrupt one. I don't use the phrase,
never will, but I might be able to accept "quantum step."

-- 
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

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#53777

On 2013-12-24 18:00:38 +0000, Davoud <star@sky.net> said:

> Davoud:
>>>> One of my favorite error, in fact, possibly the largest error that can
>>>> be. A quantum leap is said to be a huge difference, a sea change. In
>>>> fact, the quantum is the smallest possible size, or quantity, in the
>>>> Universe. A quantum leap would be a "leap" of 1.62 X 10E-35 meters--the
>>>> Planck length, the smallest distance that can be.
> 
> Barry Margolin:
>> So you also don't understand that when the term is being used in common
>> language it's a metaphor, not a literal reference to the physical
>> process in quantum mechanics.
> 
>> Not realizing that much of natural language is metaphorical is a reason
>> for many of these peeves.
> 
> I am a master of metaphorical and figurative speech. A phrase such as
> "quantum leap," which derives from ignorance, is not comparable to a
> word such as "wicked," which may mean very bad or very good.
> 
> NONETHELESS, if "quantum leap" were used to mean only an abrupt change,
> and not a large change, I yield the point. But the inclusion of "leap"
> implies a large change, not an abrupt one. I don't use the phrase,
> never will, but I might be able to accept "quantum step."

Once more I find myself agreeing with what you have said regarding 
metaphoric usage of "quantum leap". It is invariably used ignorantly in 
the wrong context. There are other ways to express a large change, 
rather than using words which sound somewhat intelligent to some ears, 
but confirm ignorance to others who know better.

-- 
Regards,

Savageduck

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#53787

On 12/24/13   PDT, 1:06 AM, Barry Margolin wrote:
> In article <2013122322185268412-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,
>   Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2013-12-24 04:39:59 +0000, Davoud <star@sky.net> said:
>>
>>> Savageduck:
>>>> You can add to those the general lack of understanding and use of
>>>> "quantum leap" vs Paradigm shift...
>>>
>>> One of my favorite error, in fact, possibly the largest error that can
>>> be. A quantum leap is said to be a huge difference, a sea change. In
>>> fact, the quantum is the smallest possible size, or quantity, in the
>>> Universe. A quantum leap would be a "leap" of 1.62 X 10E-35 meters--the
>>> Planck length, the smallest distance that can be.
>>
>> Exactly! That was the point I was trying to make.
>
> So you also don't understand that when the term is being used in common
> language it's a metaphor, not a literal reference to the physical
> process in quantum mechanics.
>
> Not realizing that much of natural language is metaphorical is a reason
> for many of these peeves. The people who think that "decimate" can only
> refer to killing 90% of the population don't understand that it long ago
> lost its original Latin meaning, and just adopted the metaphorical
> meaning of killing large numbers.

It used to indicate one in ten were killed, still a fabulous loss of 
personnel.

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#53797

In article <l9cprj$ghc$3@dont-email.me>, John McWilliams
<jpmcw@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 12/24/13   PDT, 1:06 AM, Barry Margolin wrote:
> > In article <2013122322185268412-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,
> >   Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2013-12-24 04:39:59 +0000, Davoud <star@sky.net> said:
> >>
> >>> Savageduck:
> >>>> You can add to those the general lack of understanding and use of
> >>>> "quantum leap" vs Paradigm shift...
> >>>
> >>> One of my favorite error, in fact, possibly the largest error that can
> >>> be. A quantum leap is said to be a huge difference, a sea change. In
> >>> fact, the quantum is the smallest possible size, or quantity, in the
> >>> Universe. A quantum leap would be a "leap" of 1.62 X 10E-35 meters--the
> >>> Planck length, the smallest distance that can be.
> >>
> >> Exactly! That was the point I was trying to make.
> >
> > So you also don't understand that when the term is being used in common
> > language it's a metaphor, not a literal reference to the physical
> > process in quantum mechanics.
> >
> > Not realizing that much of natural language is metaphorical is a reason
> > for many of these peeves. The people who think that "decimate" can only
> > refer to killing 90% of the population don't understand that it long ago
> > lost its original Latin meaning, and just adopted the metaphorical
> > meaning of killing large numbers.
> 
> It used to indicate one in ten were killed, still a fabulous loss of 
> personnel.

Especially when there were only five people to start with.  ;-)

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#53801

On 2013-12-24 20:40:11 +0000, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> said:

> In article <l9cprj$ghc$3@dont-email.me>, John McWilliams
> <jpmcw@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On 12/24/13   PDT, 1:06 AM, Barry Margolin wrote:
>>> In article <2013122322185268412-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,
>>> Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 2013-12-24 04:39:59 +0000, Davoud <star@sky.net> said:
>>>> 
>>>>> Savageduck:
>>>>>> You can add to those the general lack of understanding and use of
>>>>>> "quantum leap" vs Paradigm shift...
>>>>> 
>>>>> One of my favorite error, in fact, possibly the largest error that can
>>>>> be. A quantum leap is said to be a huge difference, a sea change. In
>>>>> fact, the quantum is the smallest possible size, or quantity, in the
>>>>> Universe. A quantum leap would be a "leap" of 1.62 X 10E-35 meters--the
>>>>> Planck length, the smallest distance that can be.
>>>> 
>>>> Exactly! That was the point I was trying to make.
>>> 
>>> So you also don't understand that when the term is being used in common
>>> language it's a metaphor, not a literal reference to the physical
>>> process in quantum mechanics.
>>> 
>>> Not realizing that much of natural language is metaphorical is a reason
>>> for many of these peeves. The people who think that "decimate" can only
>>> refer to killing 90% of the population don't understand that it long ago
>>> lost its original Latin meaning, and just adopted the metaphorical
>>> meaning of killing large numbers.
>> 
>> It used to indicate one in ten were killed, still a fabulous loss of
>> personnel.
> 
> Especially when there were only five people to start with.  ;-)

In that case just take one off at the knees.

-- 
Regards,

Savageduck

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#53852

In article <barmar-9A0007.04061124122013@news.eternal-september.org>,
 Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

> Not realizing that much of natural language is metaphorical is a reason 
> for many of these peeves. The people who think that "decimate" can only 
> refer to killing 90% of the population don't understand that it long ago 
> lost its original Latin meaning, and just adopted the metaphorical 
> meaning of killing large numbers.

I believe that decimation was a disciplinary method used by Romans. When 
a unit made a poor showing, one out of every ten in the unit were 
executed because of the shame.

-- 

Sam

Conservatives are against Darwinism but for natural selection.
Liberals are for Darwinism but totally against any selection.

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#53764

In message <2013122322185268412-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom> 
  Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
> On 2013-12-24 04:39:59 +0000, Davoud <star@sky.net> said:

>> Savageduck:
>>> You can add to those the general lack of understanding and use of
>>> "quantum leap" vs Paradigm shift...
>> 
>> One of my favorite error, in fact, possibly the largest error that can
>> be. A quantum leap is said to be a huge difference, a sea change. In
>> fact, the quantum is the smallest possible size, or quantity, in the
>> Universe. A quantum leap would be a "leap" of 1.62 X 10E-35 meters--the
>> Planck length, the smallest distance that can be.

> Exactly! That was the point I was trying to make.

A quantum leap is when an electron shifts from one "level" to another
*without moving*. The point is that the change in location is
instantaneous, not the distance traveled. It has nothing to do with the
Planck.

-- 
Gehm's Corollary to Clarke's law: Any technology distinguishable from
magic is insufficiently advanced.

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#53771

On 2013-12-24 16:20:13 +0000, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> said:

> In message <2013122322185268412-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>
>   Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>> On 2013-12-24 04:39:59 +0000, Davoud <star@sky.net> said:
> 
>>> Savageduck:
>>>> You can add to those the general lack of understanding and use of
>>>> "quantum leap" vs Paradigm shift...
>>> 
>>> One of my favorite error, in fact, possibly the largest error that can
>>> be. A quantum leap is said to be a huge difference, a sea change. In
>>> fact, the quantum is the smallest possible size, or quantity, in the
>>> Universe. A quantum leap would be a "leap" of 1.62 X 10E-35 meters--the
>>> Planck length, the smallest distance that can be.
> 
>> Exactly! That was the point I was trying to make.
> 
> A quantum leap is when an electron shifts from one "level" to another
> *without moving*. The point is that the change in location is
> instantaneous, not the distance traveled. It has nothing to do with the
> Planck.

...and when "quantum leap" is used in today's metaphoric speak, it is 
made in terms of what the speaker imagines it should be, not what it 
is. Usually that doesn't even meet your explanation.
Using "quantum leap" to describe an instantaneous change yes, but a 
dynamic and meaningful change no. That is where "paradigm shift" might 
be a better choice. However, even that term is misused and should be 
used thoughtfully & appropriately. Sometimes we might be compelled to 
dig into our vocabulary and employ whatever verbal skills we might have 
accumulated over a lifetime, to properly express something, anything 
correctly, without ambiguity, or metaphor.
-- 
Regards,

Savageduck

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#53778

In message <2013122409492395578-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom> 
  Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
> On 2013-12-24 16:20:13 +0000, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> said:

>> In message <2013122322185268412-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>
>>   Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>>> On 2013-12-24 04:39:59 +0000, Davoud <star@sky.net> said:
>> 
>>>> Savageduck:
>>>>> You can add to those the general lack of understanding and use of
>>>>> "quantum leap" vs Paradigm shift...
>>>> 
>>>> One of my favorite error, in fact, possibly the largest error that can
>>>> be. A quantum leap is said to be a huge difference, a sea change. In
>>>> fact, the quantum is the smallest possible size, or quantity, in the
>>>> Universe. A quantum leap would be a "leap" of 1.62 X 10E-35 meters--the
>>>> Planck length, the smallest distance that can be.
>> 
>>> Exactly! That was the point I was trying to make.
>> 
>> A quantum leap is when an electron shifts from one "level" to another
>> *without moving*. The point is that the change in location is
>> instantaneous, not the distance traveled. It has nothing to do with the
>> Planck.

> ...and when "quantum leap" is used in today's metaphoric speak, it is 
> made in terms of what the speaker imagines it should be, not what it 
> is. Usually that doesn't even meet your explanation.

Yes it does because it is often used to mean a very quick change. It is
also used to mean a large change, especially if it is fast. Of course,
from the point of view of the lectron, the quantum leap or quantum jump
is about the equivalent of you being in NYC one nanosecond and orbiting
Alpha Proxima the next, so 'large' is also appropriate.

> Using "quantum leap" to describe an instantaneous change yes, but a 
> dynamic and meaningful change no. That is where "paradigm shift" might 
> be a better choice. However, even that term is misused and should be 
> used thoughtfully & appropriately. Sometimes we might be compelled to 
> dig into our vocabulary and employ whatever verbal skills we might have 
> accumulated over a lifetime, to properly express something, anything 
> correctly, without ambiguity, or metaphor.

Paradigm is a word that was adopted by a bunch of MBAs in the late 80s
and early 90s and was a fad for a number of years. It's been a long time
since I've heard anyone use it¹ in any serious way, and I've never heard
anyone in business use it correctly. The MBA usage did not become
popular.

¹ Outside the 'field' of education where it seems to have become
entrenched as a modifier devoid of all meaning.

-- 
"...and that's not incense"

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#53802

In article <2013122409492395578-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,
 Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

> On 2013-12-24 16:20:13 +0000, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> said:
> 
> > In message <2013122322185268412-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>
> >   Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
> >> On 2013-12-24 04:39:59 +0000, Davoud <star@sky.net> said:
> > 
> >>> Savageduck:
> >>>> You can add to those the general lack of understanding and use of
> >>>> "quantum leap" vs Paradigm shift...
> >>> 
> >>> One of my favorite error, in fact, possibly the largest error that can
> >>> be. A quantum leap is said to be a huge difference, a sea change. In
> >>> fact, the quantum is the smallest possible size, or quantity, in the
> >>> Universe. A quantum leap would be a "leap" of 1.62 X 10E-35 meters--the
> >>> Planck length, the smallest distance that can be.
> > 
> >> Exactly! That was the point I was trying to make.
> > 
> > A quantum leap is when an electron shifts from one "level" to another
> > *without moving*. The point is that the change in location is
> > instantaneous, not the distance traveled. It has nothing to do with the
> > Planck.
> 
> ...and when "quantum leap" is used in today's metaphoric speak, it is 
> made in terms of what the speaker imagines it should be, not what it 
> is. Usually that doesn't even meet your explanation.
> Using "quantum leap" to describe an instantaneous change yes, but a 
> dynamic and meaningful change no. That is where "paradigm shift" might 
> be a better choice. However, even that term is misused and should be 
> used thoughtfully & appropriately. Sometimes we might be compelled to 
> dig into our vocabulary and employ whatever verbal skills we might have 
> accumulated over a lifetime, to properly express something, anything 
> correctly, without ambiguity, or metaphor.

"Quantum leap" is a term not generally used by physicists any more.  And 
there is still some uncertainty (no pun intended) about how to interpret 
quantum mechanics.

But a similar—or analogous—example of a term that is commonly misused is 
"exponentially."  That is a word with a perfectly clear meaning, but 
nearly everybody who uses it has no idea what that meaning is.  The 
popular use of "exponentially"is as shorthand for "grows real fast," but 
there are plenty of examples of "grows real fast" that are not 
exponential (and of course there is exponential decay).

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#53833

In article 
<lybanon-AE9959.15383524122013@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net>,
 Matthew Lybanon <lybanon@earthlink.net> wrote:

> But a similar—or analogous—example of a term that is commonly misused is 
> "exponentially."  That is a word with a perfectly clear meaning, but 
> nearly everybody who uses it has no idea what that meaning is.  The 
> popular use of "exponentially"is as shorthand for "grows real fast," but 
> there are plenty of examples of "grows real fast" that are not 
> exponential (and of course there is exponential decay).

Unless you're having a mathematical discussion, what difference does it 
make? As I pointed out before, it's a *metaphor*, it's not necessary for 
all nuances of the literal term to apply.

I suggest you all read "Surfaces and Essences: Analogy as the Fuel and 
Fire of Thinking" by Douglas Hofstadter and Emmanuel Sander. What they 
point out is that virtually all of our thought processes, and the 
language we use to communicate it, is based on analogy and metaphors. 
We're always thinking metaphorically, with varying levels of detail 
appropriate to the situation at hand. The same thing happens when we 
adopt words from one sphere of reference to another -- details are 
necessarily dropped to allow it to apply.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

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#53836

In article <231220132339596748%star@sky.net>, Davoud <star@sky.net> 
wrote:

> Savageduck:
> > You can add to those the general lack of understanding and use of 
> > "quantum leap" vs Paradigm shift...
> 
> One of my favorite error, in fact, possibly the largest error that can
> be. A quantum leap is said to be a huge difference, a sea change. In
> fact, the quantum is the smallest possible size, or quantity, in the
> Universe. A quantum leap would be a "leap" of 1.62 X 10E-35 meters--the
> Planck length, the smallest distance that can be.

The term "quantum" (noun) was used long before quantum (adjective) 
theory was a glimmer in Planck's eye. In its new use and misuse, it is 
almost a word with two or more disjoint meanings. Bank is such a word. 
It can mean the side of a river, a place to deposit money or rob money, 
to tilt an airplane, and who knows how many others.

-- 

Sam

Conservatives are against Darwinism but for natural selection.
Liberals are for Darwinism but totally against any selection.

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#53853

In article <SalmonEgg-CA742B.20034224122013@news80.forteinc.com>,
 Salmon Egg <SalmonEgg@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> In article <231220132339596748%star@sky.net>, Davoud <star@sky.net> 
> wrote:
> 
> > Savageduck:
> > > You can add to those the general lack of understanding and use of 
> > > "quantum leap" vs Paradigm shift...
> > 
> > One of my favorite error, in fact, possibly the largest error that can
> > be. A quantum leap is said to be a huge difference, a sea change. In
> > fact, the quantum is the smallest possible size, or quantity, in the
> > Universe. A quantum leap would be a "leap" of 1.62 X 10E-35 meters--the
> > Planck length, the smallest distance that can be.
> 
> The term "quantum" (noun) was used long before quantum (adjective) 
> theory was a glimmer in Planck's eye. In its new use and misuse, it is 
> almost a word with two or more disjoint meanings. Bank is such a word. 
> It can mean the side of a river, a place to deposit money or rob money, 
> to tilt an airplane, and who knows how many others.

I just read definition #2 of "quantum", it seems like it must be 
practically archaic now. The only use of that sense that I can recall 
hearing recently is in the title of the Bond film "Quantum of Solace".

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

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#53854

Salmon Egg:
> > ...Bank is such a word. 
> > It can mean the side of a river, a place to deposit money or rob money, 
> > to tilt an airplane, and who knows how many others.

"Bank" as a financial entity is an interesting word. It comes from an
early root meaning "bench," because that's the platform from which
usurers did their nefarious work in olden days.

A trapeze is a bench of sorts. The Greek word for bank is "trapeza."
The vernacular Egyptian Arabic word for table is "tarabeza," from the
Greek "trapezi."

-- 
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

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#58639

On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 23:39:59 -0500, Davoud <star@sky.net> wrote:

>Savageduck:
>> You can add to those the general lack of understanding and use of 
>> "quantum leap" vs Paradigm shift...
>
>One of my favorite error, in fact, possibly the largest error that can
>be. A quantum leap is said to be a huge difference, a sea change. In
>fact, the quantum is the smallest possible size, or quantity, in the
>Universe. A quantum leap would be a "leap" of 1.62 X 10E-35 meters--the
>Planck length, the smallest distance that can be.

There are several errors in your post.
Favorite should be favourite.
Meters should be metres.
It is nonsense to say there is a smallest distance.

-- 
Creationists - get educated before you argue,
And when you're corrected, try to learn something. 

Creationists only need know that
Evolution is important proven science
and
creation is made up nonsense

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#58649

In article <nsh4l9drpgv17gf89njaa366loqn7g8mqg@4ax.com>, Barry OGrady
<atheist@hotmail.com.au> wrote:

> On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 23:39:59 -0500, Davoud <star@sky.net> wrote:
> 
> >Savageduck:
> >> You can add to those the general lack of understanding and use of 
> >> "quantum leap" vs Paradigm shift...
> >
> >One of my favorite error, in fact, possibly the largest error that can
> >be. A quantum leap is said to be a huge difference, a sea change. In
> >fact, the quantum is the smallest possible size, or quantity, in the
> >Universe. A quantum leap would be a "leap" of 1.62 X 10E-35 meters--the
> >Planck length, the smallest distance that can be.
> 
> There are several errors in your post.
> Favorite should be favourite.
> Meters should be metres.

Ok so far.

> It is nonsense to say there is a smallest distance.

Suggest you look up Planck length and Planck time. You'll find you're
talking cock.

-- 
"Once you adopt the unix paradigm, the variants cease to be a problem - you
bitch, of course, but that's because bitching is fun, unlike M$ OS's, where 
bitching is required to keep your head from exploding." - S Stremler in afc

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#58653

In article <190420141342329254%timstreater@greenbee.net>, Tim Streater
<timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

> > It is nonsense to say there is a smallest distance.
> 
> Suggest you look up Planck length and Planck time. You'll find you're
> talking cock.

Well, yeah; "Your Name" always does.

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#58687

In article <190420141342329254%timstreater@greenbee.net>,
 Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

> In article <nsh4l9drpgv17gf89njaa366loqn7g8mqg@4ax.com>, Barry OGrady
> <atheist@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
> 
... 
> > It is nonsense to say there is a smallest distance.
> 
> Suggest you look up Planck length and Planck time. You'll find you're
> talking cock.

Yes, intuition is only second best when there is better.

-- 
dorayme

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