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Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks

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  Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-11-02 15:16 -0700
    Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-11-02 18:42 -0400
      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-11-02 16:43 -0700
        Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-03 12:50 +1300
          Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-11-02 20:04 -0400
          Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2013-11-03 05:53 -0500
            Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-03 13:28 -0400
              Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-11-03 12:14 -0800
                Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-03 15:17 -0400
                  Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-11-03 17:09 -0800
              Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> - 2013-11-04 15:15 -0500
                Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-04 15:26 -0500
                Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-11-05 09:12 -0800
            Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-04 09:28 +1300
            Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-11-03 20:56 +0000
              Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-03 16:25 -0400
              Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-11-03 17:10 -0800
            Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-11-03 17:50 -0500
              Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-11-03 17:11 -0800
          Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-11-03 12:11 -0800
            Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-03 15:17 -0400
              Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-11-03 17:08 -0800
                Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-03 20:28 -0400
                  Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-11-03 21:49 -0800
                    Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-04 01:14 -0500
                      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-11-04 06:46 -0800
                        Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-04 13:11 -0500
                          Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-11-05 09:09 -0800
                            Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-05 12:58 -0500
                              Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-11-05 10:52 -0800
                                Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-11-05 21:37 +0000
          Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2013-11-14 09:49 -0800
            Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-15 09:13 +1300
              Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2013-11-14 16:38 -0800
                Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-15 18:57 +1300
                  Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2013-11-15 09:45 +0100
                  Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-11-15 09:42 -0500
                    Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2013-11-15 08:14 -0800
                      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-11-15 09:23 -0800
                        Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2013-11-17 12:25 +0100
                      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-11-15 12:56 -0500
                      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-16 10:28 +1300
                Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2013-11-15 09:44 +0100
                  Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-16 10:24 +1300
                    Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2013-11-16 16:37 +1300
              Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Michelle Steiner <foo@bar.com> - 2013-11-14 21:33 -0700
        Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-02 19:57 -0400
          Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-11-02 19:46 -0700
            Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-11-03 08:00 -0500
              Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Michelle Steiner <foo@bar.com> - 2013-11-03 08:40 -0700
                Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-03 13:28 -0400
                  Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-11-03 13:34 -0500
                    Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-11-03 20:59 +0000
                  Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Michelle Steiner <foo@bar.com> - 2013-11-03 12:00 -0700
                    Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-03 14:27 -0400
                    Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2013-11-14 11:44 -0800
                      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-15 09:16 +1300
                        Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2013-11-14 16:38 -0800
                          Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-15 19:01 +1300
                            Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks rcp27g@gmail.com - 2013-11-15 07:10 -0800
                              Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2013-11-15 08:19 -0800
                                Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-11-15 12:59 -0500
                                Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-16 11:40 +1300
                              Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-16 10:36 +1300
                                Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-11-15 23:35 -0500
                                  Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Michelle Steiner <foo@bar.com> - 2013-11-15 22:31 -0700
                                    Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-11-16 01:23 -0500
                                      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Laszlo Lebrun <lazlo_lebrun@laszlomail.com> - 2013-11-16 08:27 +0100
                                      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Michelle Steiner <foo@bar.com> - 2013-11-16 08:32 -0700
                                  Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-16 18:54 +1300
                                    Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Michelle Steiner <foo@bar.com> - 2013-11-16 08:34 -0700
                                  Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2013-11-20 17:33 +0100
                              Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-16 11:41 +1300
                                Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks bob <rcp27g@gmail.com> - 2013-11-16 13:14 +0100
                                  Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-11-16 14:18 +0000
                                    Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-11-16 12:40 -0500
                                    Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks bob <rcp27g@gmail.com> - 2013-11-16 23:29 +0100
                                      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-17 12:17 +1300
                                        Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-11-16 20:15 -0500
                                          Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Andreas Rutishauser <andreas@macandreas.ch> - 2013-11-17 09:10 +0100
                                            Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-18 09:36 +1300
                                              Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-11-17 15:41 -0500
                                      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-11-16 20:12 -0500
                                  Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-11-16 12:30 -0500
                                    Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2013-11-16 09:43 -0800
                                    Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks rcp27g@gmail.com - 2013-11-18 02:13 -0800
                                      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-19 09:01 +1300
                            Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Michelle Steiner <foo@bar.com> - 2013-11-15 09:24 -0700
                      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-11-14 13:59 -0800
                  Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2013-11-14 11:37 -0800
              Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-11-03 12:00 -0800
                Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-11-03 17:40 -0500
                  Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-11-03 16:24 -0800
                    Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-11-06 16:52 -0500
                      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-07 13:31 +1300
                      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks rcp27g@gmail.com - 2013-11-07 06:02 -0800
                Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-04 18:24 +1300
                  Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-11-03 21:49 -0800
                    Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-04 19:15 +1300
            Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-11-03 11:59 -0800
              Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Michelle Steiner <foo@bar.com> - 2013-11-03 13:43 -0700
          Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks rcp27g@gmail.com - 2013-11-04 03:00 -0800
        Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-11-02 20:02 -0400
        Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks rcp27g@gmail.com - 2013-11-04 02:57 -0800
          Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-04 13:11 -0500
            Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-11-04 10:24 -0800
            Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks rcp27g@gmail.com - 2013-11-05 02:24 -0800
              Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-05 09:59 -0500
                Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Michelle Steiner <foo@bar.com> - 2013-11-05 08:59 -0700
                  Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-11-05 20:01 -0500
                    Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-05 20:29 -0500
                      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-11-06 07:45 -0800
                    Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks rcp27g@gmail.com - 2013-11-06 02:20 -0800
                      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-11-06 07:56 -0500
                Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-11-05 08:39 -0800
                  Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-05 12:58 -0500
                    Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-11-05 20:02 -0500
                      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-06 16:38 +1300
                  Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks bob <rcp27g@gmail.com> - 2013-11-05 21:55 +0100
                    Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-05 17:04 -0500
              Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-06 09:29 +1300
            Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2013-11-14 11:47 -0800
              Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks rcp27g@gmail.com - 2013-11-15 06:57 -0800
                Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-11-15 13:01 -0500
                  Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks bob <rcp27g@gmail.com> - 2013-11-16 13:25 +0100
        Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2013-11-14 09:47 -0800
          Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-15 09:09 +1300
          Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-11-14 14:06 -0800
      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-11-02 16:56 -0700
        Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-11-02 17:34 -0700
          Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-11-03 11:59 -0800
    Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-03 12:04 +1300
      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-11-02 16:46 -0700
        Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-02 19:57 -0400
          Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-11-02 17:35 -0700
        Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-03 13:03 +1300
      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-11-02 21:52 -0700
        Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-03 18:03 +1300
          Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Michelle Steiner <foo@bar.com> - 2013-11-02 22:06 -0700
            Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-11-03 12:09 -0800
              Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-11-03 15:26 -0500
                Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-11-03 17:07 -0800
                  Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-11-04 00:41 -0500
                    Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-11-03 21:47 -0800
                      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Michelle Steiner <foo@bar.com> - 2013-11-04 06:30 -0700
                        Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-11-04 06:38 -0800
                Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-04 18:26 +1300
              Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-11-03 12:28 -0800
              Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Michelle Steiner <foo@bar.com> - 2013-11-03 13:44 -0700
        Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-11-03 12:09 -0800
      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2013-11-03 12:20 +0100
    Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-11-02 16:53 -0700
      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-11-02 17:41 -0700
      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Ted Lee <tmplee@mr.net> - 2013-11-02 19:49 -0500
        Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2013-11-03 14:22 +1300
          Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-11-02 18:34 -0700
            Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-11-03 12:15 -0800
              Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-11-03 12:30 -0800
              Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-04 18:29 +1300
        Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-11-02 19:48 -0700
    Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Laszlo Lebrun <lazlo_lebrun@laszlomail.com> - 2013-11-03 02:00 +0100
      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-11-02 18:13 -0700
        Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Laszlo Lebrun <lazlo_lebrun@laszlomail.com> - 2013-11-03 07:59 +0100
          Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-11-03 00:05 -0700
            Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Michelle Steiner <foo@bar.com> - 2013-11-03 08:39 -0700
              Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-11-03 07:51 -0800
                Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-11-03 08:26 -0800
              Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2013-11-04 17:14 +0100
                Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-11-04 09:11 -0800
    Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-11-03 01:20 +0000
      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2013-11-03 12:16 +0100
    Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-11-03 00:22 -0400
      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-11-02 21:56 -0700
        Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-11-03 13:38 -0500
          Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-11-03 17:51 -0500
      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2013-11-03 12:14 +0100
        Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-11-03 12:08 -0800
    Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks glawrie <gavin.lawrie@2gc.co.uk> - 2013-11-07 15:02 +0000
      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Lloyd <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-11-07 09:24 -0600
        Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-11-07 09:06 -0800
      Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-11-07 08:27 -0800
        Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-10 16:45 +1300
    Re: Spotlight & Other Changes in Mavericks Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2013-11-08 09:48 -0800

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#52405

In article <andreas-7950E8.09103617112013@news.individual.de>, Andreas
Rutishauser <andreas@macandreas.ch> wrote:
> Salut Wes
> In article <l695be$b0p$2@dont-email.me>,
>  Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> wrote:
> > On 11-16-2013, 18:17, Your Name wrote:
> > > In article <l68rkr$o8v$1@dont-email.me>, bob <rcp27g@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > > <snip>
> > >>
> > >> Alternatives to the horse were avaialble long before the motor car.
> > >> Passenger railways came in from the 1830s.  Metros from the 1860s.
> > >> Trams from the 1870s.
> > >>
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > And if you believe the "alien ancestors" nutters, then spaceships were
> > > in regular use (albeit only by the rulers, rich and powerful) way back
> > > before the early Egyptian / Mayan / etc. days.    :-)
> > 
> > Seen in Cinque Terre:
> > 
> > http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.org/Italy/May_4th/20130504_111007.jpg
> 
> dunno what you want to say with that, but the thing that might look like 
> an "UFO" is a lamp for fishing at night...

That's not what the "alien ancestors" fanatics will tell you. They're
looneys with blinkered tunnel vision who won't accept any other
possible explanantion, no matter how sane, sensisble or truthful it is.

There was a TV show a while back where these loonies had an ancient
neckalce / bracelet charm from ancient mayans (or whichever South
American people it was). According to the loonies, the charm was
supposedly a "jet plane", but obviously ancient people couldn't have
seen a jet plane, so they were excitedly claiming it "proved" those
people had seen spaceships ... yet any sane human being could easily
see is was meant to be a stylised fish.  :-\

In another show similar loonies claimed to have found a mummified alien
(somewhere in Mexico from memory), and eyt more "proof" of
extraterrestrial visitors ... and yet any sane human being could
plainly see it was a dead, partly decomposed, partly mummified rodent.

One of the "experts" even looks like a complete looney thanks to his
ridiculous hairstyle.

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#52406

On 11-17-2013, 15:36, Your Name wrote:
> There was a TV show a while back where these loonies had an ancient
> neckalce / bracelet charm from ancient mayans (or whichever South
> American people it was). According to the loonies, the charm was
> supposedly a "jet plane", but obviously ancient people couldn't have
> seen a jet plane, so they were excitedly claiming it "proved" those
> people had seen spaceships ... yet any sane human being could easily
> see is was meant to be a stylised fish.:-\

I watched a show on the Discovery channel (go figure) about alien 
abductions.  Wasn't the Sci-Fi channel, so it had to be true, right?

One victim even showed us the scars where they took tissue samples.
I said, "Wow, and all this time I thought mine were from chicken pox!"

:-)

-- 
Wes Groleau

Heroes, Heritage, and History
http://UniGen.us/webtrees

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#52376

On 11-16-2013, 17:29, bob wrote:
> Personal computers date from the end of the 1970s, they were nearly 10
> years old by the late '80s.  The IBM PC was late to the party.

Depends on how you define party.  Zillions of business men were 
scratching their heads in front of computer stores, wondering, "Should I 
get one of these computers?"

Then someone dropped a new entry in the window.
When they saw the letters I B M, the debate was over.

-- 
Wes Groleau

Free speech has its limits
http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/WWW?itemid=99

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#52352

On 11-16-2013, 07:14, bob wrote:
> Their adoption or otherwise generally does not depend on whether
> previous technologies are broken or "need fixing".  The adoption
> generally depends on either the new technology offering better
> functionality or the same functionality more efficiently.  Back to where
> we started, the idea that computer user has to actively intervene by
> carrying out a specific action in order to save progress when working on
> a document is an inefficiency the removal of which offers an improvement
> in efficiency.  The ability to roll the state of a document back to any
> point in its history and make a copy of it in that state without
> affecting the current state of the document is a significant improvement
> in functionality.

No, it is an attempt to impose everywhere, including where it's not 
needed, a piss-poor version of what is already in use where it is 
needed, i.e., configuration management and version control.

-- 
Wes Groleau

    There are more Baroque musicians than any other kind.

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#52355

On 2013-11-16 17:30:56 +0000, Wes Groleau said:

> On 11-16-2013, 07:14, bob wrote:
>>   Back to where
>> we started, the idea that computer user has to actively intervene by
>> carrying out a specific action in order to save progress when working on
>> a document is an inefficiency the removal of which offers an improvement
>> in efficiency.

> No, it is an attempt to impose everywhere, including where it's not 
> needed, a piss-poor version of what is already in use where it is 
> needed, i.e., configuration management and version control.

I agree that it's a generally "piss-poor version" of revision management.

What I don't see is how it's much of an imposition.  Ignore it.  Flip 
the "ask to revert document" button in Prefs->General.

Sure, it should be optional.  And certainly one should at least be able 
to turn it on or off with granularity - system-wide, at the app level, 
and additionally, at the document level.

And I strongly believe that Auto-Lock should be brought back (again, 
optional, and with the same granularities as indicated above).

And it would be nice if the revision repositories lived with the file 
and not at the base of the volume (though this introduces a different 
problem - stripping out the repositories when 
sharing/e-mailing/whatever the files -- sometimes you want the history 
like when you share/sync with yourself - and sometimes you absolutely 
do NOT want it, like when sending a resume to a prospective employer -- 
this last one bit people very badly at one time with Word files).

And, finally, we should be able to keep Save As... in our File menu if 
we like it and still use it - as many of us apparently do.

But in the absense of making all the changes I described above, if you 
just ignore it, it's really not going to get in your way or cause you 
trouble -- with the single exception that you need to make sure to 
check that box in Prefs->General to make sure you get invited to revert 
to last (explictit, not auto) saved version when you close the doc.

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#52421

On Saturday, 16 November 2013 18:30:56 UTC+1, Wes Groleau  wrote:
> On 11-16-2013, 07:14, bob wrote:
> 
> > Their adoption or otherwise generally does not depend on whether
> > previous technologies are broken or "need fixing".  The adoption
> > generally depends on either the new technology offering better
> > functionality or the same functionality more efficiently.  Back to where
> > we started, the idea that computer user has to actively intervene by
> > carrying out a specific action in order to save progress when working on
> > a document is an inefficiency the removal of which offers an improvement
> > in efficiency.  The ability to roll the state of a document back to any
> > point in its history and make a copy of it in that state without
> > affecting the current state of the document is a significant improvement
> > in functionality.
> 
> No, it is an attempt to impose everywhere, including where it's not 
> needed, a piss-poor version of what is already in use where it is 
> needed, i.e., configuration management and version control.

I don't think they started out wanting to implement version control, rather they started out wanting to implement auto-save.  Auto-save allows people to use a computer more intuitively.  If I write something on a piece of paper, it is there, I don't have to take any additional steps to prevent it from disappearing.  Auto-save allows a computer document to work in the same way.  For auto-save to be workable, however, there needs to be a method of undoing unwanted changes.  Versions is a good first step, the "ask to keep changes" option that followed is a big improvement, and the restoration of save-as functionality is also a useful step.

Robin

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#52428

In article <9071cae1-4959-45e3-b834-9b478528fb72@googlegroups.com>,
<rcp27g@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, 16 November 2013 18:30:56 UTC+1, Wes Groleau  wrote:
> > On 11-16-2013, 07:14, bob wrote:
> > 
> > > Their adoption or otherwise generally does not depend on whether
> > > previous technologies are broken or "need fixing".  The adoption
> > > generally depends on either the new technology offering better
> > > functionality or the same functionality more efficiently.  Back to where
> > > we started, the idea that computer user has to actively intervene by
> > > carrying out a specific action in order to save progress when working on
> > > a document is an inefficiency the removal of which offers an improvement
> > > in efficiency.  The ability to roll the state of a document back to any
> > > point in its history and make a copy of it in that state without
> > > affecting the current state of the document is a significant improvement
> > > in functionality.
> > 
> > No, it is an attempt to impose everywhere, including where it's not 
> > needed, a piss-poor version of what is already in use where it is 
> > needed, i.e., configuration management and version control.
> 
> I don't think they started out wanting to implement version control, rather
> they started out wanting to implement auto-save.  Auto-save allows people to
> use a computer more intuitively.  If I write something on a piece of paper,
> it is there, I don't have to take any additional steps to prevent it from
> disappearing.  Auto-save allows a computer document to work in the same way. 
> For auto-save to be workable, however, there needs to be a method of undoing
> unwanted changes.  Versions is a good first step, the "ask to keep changes"
> option that followed is a big improvement, and the restoration of save-as
> functionality is also a useful step.

Many applications already had "auto-save". "Versions" is just an
unnecessary gimmick tagged on to the side of Time Machine, and is
largely done as part of the "iOS-isation" of Mac OS X to appease the
lazy iPad generation who can't be bothered actually saving and
organisaing their documents properly.

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#52288

In article <151120131901069202%YourName@YourISP.com>, Your Name
<YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> ... as the saying goes, you don't fix what aint broke.

So we'd all be driving Model T Fords or equivalent.

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#52250

On 2013-11-14 19:44:15 +0000, Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> said:

> On 2013-11-03 19:00:42 +0000, Michelle Steiner said:
> 
>> In article <031120131328190591%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
>> <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>>>>>>> save as was only added back because people complained.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thus proving that Apple does listen.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thus proving Apple should leave well enough alone.
>>>> 
>>>> but now we have the best of both.
>>> 
>>> no, because the versioning system is still there, saving changes when
>>> you don't want it to.
>> 
>> That's a different issue from having "Duplicate" or "Save As" in the
>> File menu.
> 
> In fairness, the removal of Save As was part of the intended switch to a
> system where we no longer think about savings explcitly, but rather that
> documents are simply there.
> 
> It is a bold and interesting idea, which was rolled out with a heap of flaws.
> 
> However, to Nospam, if it's "saving changes when you don't want it to", 
> you (a) tell it to *ask* whether to keep changes or not.  See 
> Prefernces->General for the checkbox.  Check the box.;  And (b) 
> otherwise, just ignore it.
> 
> As for saving automatically as you go, and "reverting" to the last 
> explicitly saved copy - that's not just a convenience, but it's a 
> security mechanism.  If the computer gets shut down, or the app quits 
> unexpectedly, or whatever, this allows you a recovery of your otherwise 
> lost incremental work.  And if you didn't really want that incremental 
> work, you can revert.  Which is exactly what happens when you say "no, 
> don't keep my changes" if you tell it to ask via that system pref.
> 
> It's still got a ways to go, and my opinion is that the auto-lock was 
> one of the best things about it -- making us explicitly indicate that 
> we mean to change a file -- and *that* was removed when they went from 
> 10.7 to 10.8 due to folks getting cranky about their files being 
> locked.  That one certainly should have been moved to being an option.  
> But they're making progress on what looks to be one of the first major 
> changes in the way general users (as opposed to, say, geeks like me who 
> have used true revision management systems for decades) handle files.
> 
> That all said, as glad as I am that they added back Save As..., I think 
> it should simply have been added back to the menu directly, not only 
> when one hits the Option key.  Obfuscation like that doesn't benefit 
> anyone.

Agreed.

-- 
Regards,

Savageduck

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#52241

On 2013-11-03 17:28:19 +0000, nospam said:

> In article <031120130840429532%foo@bar.com>, Michelle Steiner
> <foo@bar.com> wrote:
> 
>>>>> save as was only added back because people complained.
>>>> 
>>>> Thus proving that Apple does listen.
>>> 
>>> Thus proving Apple should leave well enough alone.
>> 
>> but now we have the best of both.
> 
> no, because the versioning system is still there, saving changes when
> you don't want it to.

System Preferences->General->"Ask to keep changes when closing documents"

It's unchecked by default, by Apple.

Check it.

(I strongly believe it should be checked by default, but I'm grateful 
that it's there at all.  It was *not* there in 10.7, but was added in 
10.8, IIRC)

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#51777

On 2013-11-03 13:00:46 +0000, Alan Browne said:

> On 2013.11.02, 22:46 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
>> In article <021120131957548036%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
>> <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>>> save as was only added back because people complained.
>> 
>> Thus proving that Apple does listen.
> 
> Thus proving Apple should leave well enough alone.

OS9 ROOLS!

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#51798

On 2013.11.03, 15:00 , gtr wrote:
> On 2013-11-03 13:00:46 +0000, Alan Browne said:
>
>> On 2013.11.02, 22:46 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
>>> In article <021120131957548036%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
>>> <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> save as was only added back because people complained.
>>>
>>> Thus proving that Apple does listen.
>>
>> Thus proving Apple should leave well enough alone.
>
> OS9 ROOLS!

I'm sure it's adequate for your needs.

While OS' and GUI's should evolve it does not mean at the expense of 
what already works fine.  People can "save as" to create new versions of 
a doc when _they_ want to do it (which is often the exception, not the 
rule).

-- 
"Quotation, n: The act of repeating erroneously the words of another."
                                                 -Ambrose Bierce

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#51802

On 2013-11-03 22:40:48 +0000, Alan Browne 
<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> said:

> On 2013.11.03, 15:00 , gtr wrote:
>> On 2013-11-03 13:00:46 +0000, Alan Browne said:
>> 
>>> On 2013.11.02, 22:46 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
>>>> In article <021120131957548036%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
>>>> <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> save as was only added back because people complained.
>>>> 
>>>> Thus proving that Apple does listen.
>>> 
>>> Thus proving Apple should leave well enough alone.
>> 
>> OS9 ROOLS!
> 
> I'm sure it's adequate for your needs.
> 
> While OS' and GUI's should evolve it does not mean at the expense of 
> what already works fine.  People can "save as" to create new versions 
> of a doc when _they_ want to do it (which is often the exception, not 
> the rule).

My most common use of "Save As" with Preview is when I want to quickly 
resize an image for another purpose such as online sharing, or email 
without having to go through Photoshop or Lightroom. It is quick and 
simple to adjust the size, then "Save as" to retain the original. All 
done without having to duplicate first, a totally unnecessary step.

-- 
Regards,

Savageduck

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#51935

On 2013.11.03, 19:24 , Savageduck wrote:
> On 2013-11-03 22:40:48 +0000, Alan Browne
> <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> said:
>
>> On 2013.11.03, 15:00 , gtr wrote:
>>> On 2013-11-03 13:00:46 +0000, Alan Browne said:
>>>
>>>> On 2013.11.02, 22:46 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
>>>>> In article <021120131957548036%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
>>>>> <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> save as was only added back because people complained.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thus proving that Apple does listen.
>>>>
>>>> Thus proving Apple should leave well enough alone.
>>>
>>> OS9 ROOLS!
>>
>> I'm sure it's adequate for your needs.
>>
>> While OS' and GUI's should evolve it does not mean at the expense of
>> what already works fine.  People can "save as" to create new versions
>> of a doc when _they_ want to do it (which is often the exception, not
>> the rule).
>
> My most common use of "Save As" with Preview is when I want to quickly
> resize an image for another purpose such as online sharing, or email
> without having to go through Photoshop or Lightroom. It is quick and
> simple to adjust the size, then "Save as" to retain the original. All
> done without having to duplicate first, a totally unnecessary step.

Which represents most people's needs.

Most documents, esp. at work, are "living" things.  There may be 
occasional "save as" in order to preserve a version at a point in time.


-- 
"Quotation, n: The act of repeating erroneously the words of another."
                                                 -Ambrose Bierce

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#51944

In article <-ImdnedBr5SuJ-fPnZ2dnUVZ_rEAAAAA@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> On 2013.11.03, 19:24 , Savageduck wrote:
> > On 2013-11-03 22:40:48 +0000, Alan Browne
> > <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> said:
> >
> >> On 2013.11.03, 15:00 , gtr wrote:
> >>> On 2013-11-03 13:00:46 +0000, Alan Browne said:
> >>>
> >>>> On 2013.11.02, 22:46 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
> >>>>> In article <021120131957548036%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
> >>>>> <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> save as was only added back because people complained.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thus proving that Apple does listen.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thus proving Apple should leave well enough alone.
> >>>
> >>> OS9 ROOLS!
> >>
> >> I'm sure it's adequate for your needs.
> >>
> >> While OS' and GUI's should evolve it does not mean at the expense of
> >> what already works fine.  People can "save as" to create new versions
> >> of a doc when _they_ want to do it (which is often the exception, not
> >> the rule).
> >
> > My most common use of "Save As" with Preview is when I want to quickly
> > resize an image for another purpose such as online sharing, or email
> > without having to go through Photoshop or Lightroom. It is quick and
> > simple to adjust the size, then "Save as" to retain the original. All
> > done without having to duplicate first, a totally unnecessary step.
> 
> Which represents most people's needs.
> 
> Most documents, esp. at work, are "living" things.  There may be 
> occasional "save as" in order to preserve a version at a point in time.

My ancient copy of InDeisng 2 (that's version 2, not CS2) has three
save commands under the File menu:

    - "Save" to save the current file to the existing filename
      (or give it a filename if it's a brand new document).

    - "Save As" to save the current file to a new filename
      and then continue working on the new copy.

    - "Save a Copy" to save the current file to a new filename
       BUT then continue working on the original document.

I can't say I've ever used that last option, but it could be handy I
suppose. No doubt it's in other applications where I haven't even
noticed it.

Both of the last two options force a complete re-write of the document
file removing any excess garbage that has accumlated during editing.

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#51979

On Wednesday, 6 November 2013 22:52:51 UTC+1, Alan Browne  wrote:
> On 2013.11.03, 19:24 , Savageduck wrote:

> > My most common use of "Save As" with Preview is when I want to quickly
> > resize an image for another purpose such as online sharing, or email
> > without having to go through Photoshop or Lightroom. It is quick and
> > simple to adjust the size, then "Save as" to retain the original. All
> > done without having to duplicate first, a totally unnecessary step.
> 
> Which represents most people's needs.

And which can be done with the don't apply changes to old file check box in the Save As window, provided for that purpose.

> Most documents, esp. at work, are "living" things.  There may be 
> occasional "save as" in order to preserve a version at a point in time.

Preserving a version at a particular point in time for a living document is *exactly* the point of autosave and versioning.  It doesn't just do an "occasional" save as, it does it continuously.

Robin

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#51823

In article <2013110312000386959-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:

> On 2013-11-03 13:00:46 +0000, Alan Browne said:
> 
> > On 2013.11.02, 22:46 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
> >> In article <021120131957548036%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
> >> <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> save as was only added back because people complained.
> >> 
> >> Thus proving that Apple does listen.
> > 
> > Thus proving Apple should leave well enough alone.
> 
> OS9 ROOLS!

OS 9?! Geez, Apple started tinkering too much after System 7.  :-)

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#51829

On 2013-11-04 05:24:36 +0000, Your Name said:

> In article <2013110312000386959-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:
> 
>> On 2013-11-03 13:00:46 +0000, Alan Browne said:
>> 
>>> On 2013.11.02, 22:46 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
>>>> In article <021120131957548036%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
>>>> <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> save as was only added back because people complained.
>>>> 
>>>> Thus proving that Apple does listen.
>>> 
>>> Thus proving Apple should leave well enough alone.
>> 
>> OS9 ROOLS!
> 
> OS 9?! Geez, Apple started tinkering too much after System 7.  :-)

You win!

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#51830

In article <2013110321492299954-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:

> On 2013-11-04 05:24:36 +0000, Your Name said:
> 
> > In article <2013110312000386959-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:
> > 
> >> On 2013-11-03 13:00:46 +0000, Alan Browne said:
> >> 
> >>> On 2013.11.02, 22:46 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
> >>>> In article <021120131957548036%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
> >>>> <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>>> save as was only added back because people complained.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Thus proving that Apple does listen.
> >>> 
> >>> Thus proving Apple should leave well enough alone.
> >> 
> >> OS9 ROOLS!
> > 
> > OS 9?! Geez, Apple started tinkering too much after System 7.  :-)
> 
> You win!

Thinking about it, Apple's annoying tinkering ways started well before
System 7 when they started mucking about with the Apple ][.

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#51776

On 2013-11-03 02:46:41 +0000, Michelle Steiner said:

> In article <021120131957548036%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
> <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> save as was only added back because people complained.
> 
> Thus proving that Apple does listen.

Sometimes.  Eventually.

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