Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #70761 > unrolled thread

Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015).

Back to article view | Back to comp.sys.mac.system

Contents

  Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2015-03-09 14:57 -0700
    Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-03-10 11:53 +1300
      Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2015-03-10 21:29 -0700
        Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-11 18:24 +1300
        Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-10 23:21 -0700
          Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2015-03-11 12:24 -0700
        Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-03-11 23:46 +1300
          Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2015-03-11 12:25 -0700
        Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.org> - 2015-03-11 08:59 -0700
          Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-11 16:49 +0000
            Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-11 09:54 -0700
              Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-11 16:57 +0000
                Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-11 10:02 -0700
                  Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-11 17:07 +0000
                    Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-11 10:38 -0700
                      Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-11 17:57 +0000
                      Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). Andreas Rutishauser <andreas@macandreas.ch> - 2015-03-12 06:54 +0100
                  Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2015-03-11 12:26 -0700
                    Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-12 09:14 +1300
                      Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-11 20:17 +0000
          Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-11 09:53 -0700
            Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.org> - 2015-03-12 13:16 -0700
              Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-12 19:12 -0400
                Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.com> - 2015-03-13 01:14 +0000
        Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2015-03-11 11:55 -0500
          Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2015-03-11 12:27 -0700
            Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-11 19:38 +0000
            Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2015-03-11 22:22 -0500
              Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-03-12 18:04 +1300
                Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2015-03-13 18:53 -0400
              Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-12 18:42 +1300
          Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-11 19:26 +0000
      Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). billy@MIX.COM - 2015-03-12 20:07 +0000
        Re: Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015). dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-03-13 10:49 +1300

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

#70761 — Apple just released updates for Mac OS X, iOS, AppleTV, and Xcode today (3/9/2015).

I got their e-mails from its 
https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/security-announce/ mailing list 
for 
http://lists.apple.com/archives/security-announce/2015/Mar/index.html ...

I saw iOS updates, but none for Mac OS X v10.8.5 on two/2 Mac machines. :(
-- 
"I made my list for my birthday." --Christopher. "Yeah, what'd you put 
on there? - A basketball or an ant farm." and "This could be an ant 
farm. This could be a microscope or anything." --Chris from The Pursuit 
of Happyness movie.
    /\___/\         Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
   / /\ /\ \                Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
  | |o   o| |
     \ _ /        If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
      ( )         If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
A song (i/wa)s playing on this computer: U.S.A. For Africa - We Are The 
World

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#70766

Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> I got their e-mails from its 
> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/security-announce/ mailing list
> for 
> http://lists.apple.com/archives/security-announce/2015/Mar/index.html ...
> 
> I saw iOS updates, but none for Mac OS X v10.8.5 on two/2 Mac machines. :(

Patience, young apprentice. Apple's updates are sent out via distributed
server networks, and some of the updates may take a while to appear on
some nodes, and via different distribution methods, such as Software
Update vs manual download from http://support.apple.com/downloads.

They sent out the security-announce email message about iOS 8.2 first,
and I was able to download that software within about half an hour of
today's event.

The security-announce message about the Mac security updates appeared
about 20 minutes later, but as of a couple of hours after that, I still
couldn't download them. About 15 minutes later, Software Update just
started listing the security update, but it hasn't shown up on the
manual download site yet.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#70853

>> I got their e-mails from its
>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/security-announce/ mailing list
>> for
>> http://lists.apple.com/archives/security-announce/2015/Mar/index.html ...
>>
>> I saw iOS updates, but none for Mac OS X v10.8.5 on two/2 Mac machines. :(
>
> Patience, young apprentice. Apple's updates are sent out via distributed
> server networks, and some of the updates may take a while to appear on
> some nodes, and via different distribution methods, such as Software
> Update vs manual download from http://support.apple.com/downloads.

Heh. People called me a padawan. :P


> They sent out the security-announce email message about iOS 8.2 first,
> and I was able to download that software within about half an hour of
> today's event.

Yep, I got that fast onto an iPad air and iPhone 4S.


> The security-announce message about the Mac security updates appeared
> about 20 minutes later, but as of a couple of hours after that, I still
> couldn't download them. About 15 minutes later, Software Update just
> started listing the security update, but it hasn't shown up on the
> manual download site yet.

Yeah, it took hours to show up. Sheesh. I find it interesting that Apple 
released Mac OS X yesterday. Why do all on the same day with iOS since I 
don't they are related to each other?
-- 
"What do ants and bees use for cattle?" --Tom
    /\___/\         Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
   / /\ /\ \                Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
  | |o   o| |
     \ _ /        If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
      ( )         If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
A song (i/wa)s playing on this computer: The Darkness - Givin' Up

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#70858

In article <rJKdnftCdvAkWWLJnZ2dnUU7-X-dnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Ant
<ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> >>
> >> I got their e-mails from its
> >> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/security-announce/ mailing list
> >> for
> >> http://lists.apple.com/archives/security-announce/2015/Mar/index.html ...
> >>
> >> I saw iOS updates, but none for Mac OS X v10.8.5 on two/2 Mac machines. :(
> >
> > Patience, young apprentice. Apple's updates are sent out via distributed
> > server networks, and some of the updates may take a while to appear on
> > some nodes, and via different distribution methods, such as Software
> > Update vs manual download from http://support.apple.com/downloads.
> 
> Heh. People called me a padawan. :P
> 
> 
> > They sent out the security-announce email message about iOS 8.2 first,
> > and I was able to download that software within about half an hour of
> > today's event.
> 
> Yep, I got that fast onto an iPad air and iPhone 4S.
> 
> 
> > The security-announce message about the Mac security updates appeared
> > about 20 minutes later, but as of a couple of hours after that, I still
> > couldn't download them. About 15 minutes later, Software Update just
> > started listing the security update, but it hasn't shown up on the
> > manual download site yet.
> 
> Yeah, it took hours to show up. Sheesh. I find it interesting that Apple 
> released Mac OS X yesterday. Why do all on the same day with iOS since I 
> don't they are related to each other?

iOS and OS X are related to each other (iOS is at a very basic level a
cut-down version of OS X), and they interact with each other. Things
like the new iCloud and hand-off, for example, may require updating
both systems at the same time.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#70862

In article <rJKdnftCdvAkWWLJnZ2dnUU7-X-dnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Ant
<ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> I find it interesting that Apple released Mac OS X yesterday.

It did?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#70897

>> I find it interesting that Apple released Mac OS X yesterday.
>
> It did?

I missed a word: Updates.
-- 
"What is this? A center for ants?!" "...What?" "How can we be expected 
to teach children to learn how read, if they can't even fit inside the 
building?" "Derek, it's just a--" "I don't want to hear your excuses! 
The center has to be at least... three times bigger than this!" "...He's 
absolutely right!" --Zoolander movie
    /\___/\         Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
   / /\ /\ \                Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
  | |o   o| |
     \ _ /        If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
      ( )         If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#70872

Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> >> I got their e-mails from its
> >> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/security-announce/ mailing list
> >> for
> >> http://lists.apple.com/archives/security-announce/2015/Mar/index.html ...
> >>
> >> I saw iOS updates, but none for Mac OS X v10.8.5 on two/2 Mac machines. :(
> >
> > Patience, young apprentice. Apple's updates are sent out via distributed
> > server networks, and some of the updates may take a while to appear on
> > some nodes, and via different distribution methods, such as Software
> > Update vs manual download from http://support.apple.com/downloads.
> 
> Heh. People called me a padawan. :P
> 
> 
> > They sent out the security-announce email message about iOS 8.2 first,
> > and I was able to download that software within about half an hour of
> > today's event.
> 
> Yep, I got that fast onto an iPad air and iPhone 4S.
> 
> 
> > The security-announce message about the Mac security updates appeared
> > about 20 minutes later, but as of a couple of hours after that, I still
> > couldn't download them. About 15 minutes later, Software Update just
> > started listing the security update, but it hasn't shown up on the
> > manual download site yet.
> 
> Yeah, it took hours to show up. Sheesh. I find it interesting that Apple
> released Mac OS X yesterday. Why do all on the same day with iOS since I
> don't they are related to each other?

Because the same security fixes applied to both platforms. If they
release the updates on different days, it exposes the "late" platform to
known and published security issues for an extra day or more.

There was at least one case recently where an iOS security update was
released but the Mac one wasn't, and the problem was known to also apply
to Macs. This caused a big fuss by media and security bloggers
complaining that Apple was leaving Macs exposed. The Mac update was
released a couple of days later.

Imagine the furore if it happened the other way around. There are a lot
more iOS devices out there than Macs.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#70898

On 3/11/2015 3:46 AM, dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote:
...
> Because the same security fixes applied to both platforms. If they
> release the updates on different days, it exposes the "late" platform to
> known and published security issues for an extra day or more.
>
> There was at least one case recently where an iOS security update was
> released but the Mac one wasn't, and the problem was known to also apply
> to Macs. This caused a big fuss by media and security bloggers
> complaining that Apple was leaving Macs exposed. The Mac update was
> released a couple of days later.
...

Ah. Good point.
-- 
"If they are offered winged ants, people will eat them." --African
    /\___/\         Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
   / /\ /\ \                Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
  | |o   o| |
     \ _ /        If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
      ( )         If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#70884

On 3/10/15 9:29 PM, Ant wrote:
> I find it interesting that Apple released Mac OS X yesterday.

There we no MacOS updates.  Other than public betas.. which don't really 
'count' as a release.



-- 
"Anything's a dildo if you're brave enough".
   - Abraham Lincoln

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#70887

On 2015-03-11, tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.org> wrote:
> On 3/10/15 9:29 PM, Ant wrote:
>> I find it interesting that Apple released Mac OS X yesterday.
>
> There we no MacOS updates.

That's incorrect. A substantial Mac OS X security update (2015-002) and
Xcode 6.2 were both released yesterday along with iOS 8.2.

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT1222>

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#70889

In article <cmba1fFe53qU1@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
<jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2015-03-11, tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.org> wrote:
> > On 3/10/15 9:29 PM, Ant wrote:
> >> I find it interesting that Apple released Mac OS X yesterday.
> >
> > There we no MacOS updates.
> 
> That's incorrect. A substantial Mac OS X security update (2015-002) and
> Xcode 6.2 were both released yesterday along with iOS 8.2.
> 
> <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT1222>

Well, there wasn't a Mac OS X release.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#70891

On 2015-03-11, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> In article <cmba1fFe53qU1@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
><jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2015-03-11, tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.org> wrote:
>> > On 3/10/15 9:29 PM, Ant wrote:
>> >> I find it interesting that Apple released Mac OS X yesterday.
>> >
>> > There we no MacOS updates.
>> 
>> That's incorrect. A substantial Mac OS X security update (2015-002) and
>> Xcode 6.2 were both released yesterday along with iOS 8.2.
>> 
>> <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT1222>
>
> Well, there wasn't a Mac OS X release.

I doubt that's what Ant meant. Now I think we are arguing about
semantics, which is utterly boring.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#70893

In article <cmbaf7Fe53qU3@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
<jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> I doubt that's what Ant meant. 

I never know what he means, so I go by what he writes.

> Now I think we are arguing about semantics, which is utterly boring.

Are you anti-semantic?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#70894

On 2015-03-11, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> In article <cmbaf7Fe53qU3@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
><jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> I doubt that's what Ant meant. 
>
> I never know what he means, so I go by what he writes.

He has a strange habit of using incorrect terminology to refer to
things; and the fact that the security and xcode updates were released the
same day as iOS 8.2 combined with his reference to an os x update on the
same day is all I needed to connect the dots.

>> Now I think we are arguing about semantics, which is utterly boring.
>
> Are you anti-semantic?

Only sometimes. : )

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#70895

In article <cmbb21Fe53qU5@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
<jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> >> I doubt that's what Ant meant. 
> >
> > I never know what he means, so I go by what he writes.
> 
> He has a strange habit of using incorrect terminology to refer to
> things; and the fact that the security and xcode updates were released the
> same day as iOS 8.2 combined with his reference to an os x update on the
> same day is all I needed to connect the dots.

But he didn't refer to an update; he said that Mac OS X was released.

Oh, I'm running the 10.10.3 beta, so I didn't see the security updates,
so I didn't have any idea that's what he could have meant.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#70896

On 2015-03-11, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> In article <cmbb21Fe53qU5@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
><jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> >> I doubt that's what Ant meant. 
>> >
>> > I never know what he means, so I go by what he writes.
>> 
>> He has a strange habit of using incorrect terminology to refer to
>> things; and the fact that the security and xcode updates were released the
>> same day as iOS 8.2 combined with his reference to an os x update on the
>> same day is all I needed to connect the dots.
>
> But he didn't refer to an update; he said that Mac OS X was released.

We are talking about Ant; and like I said, he has a strange habit of
using incorrect terminology. With that in mind, it was fairly obvious to
me what he meant considering the OS X security update and iOS upgrade
were released on the same day..

> Oh, I'm running the 10.10.3 beta, so I didn't see the security updates,
> so I didn't have any idea that's what he could have meant.

I read the news about the update before I saw it on my computer.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#70922

Salut Michelle

In article <110320151038277282%michelle@michelle.org>,
 Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> In article <cmbb21Fe53qU5@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
> <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> 
> > >> I doubt that's what Ant meant. 
> > >
> > > I never know what he means, so I go by what he writes.
> > 
> > He has a strange habit of using incorrect terminology to refer to
> > things; and the fact that the security and xcode updates were released the
> > same day as iOS 8.2 combined with his reference to an os x update on the
> > same day is all I needed to connect the dots.
> 
> But he didn't refer to an update; he said that Mac OS X was released.

do you read subject lines?

Cheers
Andreas

-- 
MacAndreas Rutishauser, <http://www.MacAndreas.ch> 
EDV-Dienstleistungen, Hard- und Software, Internet und Netzwerk
Beratung, Unterstuetzung und Schulung
<mailto:andreas@MacAndreas.ch>, Fon: 044 / 721 36 47

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#70900

>> I doubt that's what Ant meant.
>
> I never know what he means, so I go by what he writes.

Sorry, I am not a good communicator. :(
-- 
"An ant is a wise creature for itself, but it is a shrewd thing in an 
orchard or garden." --Francis Bacon
    /\___/\         Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
   / /\ /\ \                Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
  | |o   o| |
     \ _ /        If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
      ( )         If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#70906

In article <xa6dnapzvf13C53InZ2dnUU7-cOdnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Ant
<ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> >>
> >> I doubt that's what Ant meant.
> >
> > I never know what he means, so I go by what he writes.
> 
> Sorry, I am not a good communicator. :(

It's not your fault. Michelle Steiner and Jolly Roger don't have the
ability to understand anything (and don't know anything anyway), that's
why the two morons are in my killfile.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#70907

On 2015-03-11, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> In article <xa6dnapzvf13C53InZ2dnUU7-cOdnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Ant
><ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I doubt that's what Ant meant.
>> >
>> > I never know what he means, so I go by what he writes.
>> 
>> Sorry, I am not a good communicator. :(
>
> It's not your fault. Michelle Steiner and Jolly Roger don't have the
> ability to understand anything (and don't know anything anyway), that's
> why the two morons are in my killfile.

LOL! Had you bothered to read, you'd know I clearly understood that Ant
was referring to the security update, while others including Michelle
did not. So I'm definitely not the moron in this instance... ; )

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | comp.sys.mac.system

csiph-web