Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #145750 > unrolled thread

Keyboard question

Back to article view | Back to comp.sys.mac.system

Contents

  Keyboard question super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> - 2025-08-19 17:53 -0500
    Re: Keyboard question Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-08-20 17:32 +1200
      Re: Keyboard question super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> - 2025-08-20 01:48 -0500
        Re: Keyboard question Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-08-20 19:30 +1200
          Re: Keyboard question super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> - 2025-08-20 06:23 -0500
            Re: Keyboard question Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-08-21 09:02 +1200
              Re: Keyboard question super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> - 2025-08-20 16:27 -0500
                Re: Keyboard question Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-08-21 13:19 +1200
                  Re: Keyboard question super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> - 2025-08-20 22:31 -0500
                    Re: Keyboard question Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-08-21 18:41 +1200

#145750 — Keyboard question

I use an Apple A1242 keyboard on a couple of my newer iMacs 
(hard-wired). I like them because they're about as compact as possible 
and seem to be pretty reliable.

I also use an old PowerMac G4 MDD pretty often which I've always used 
Apple M2452 keyboards with. Those keyboards don't have the best 
reliability and they're dust/hair/grit collectors and I'm always having 
to order (used, of course) replacements for them on eBay.

My question is would an Apple A1242 keyboard work on the G3? I would at 
least have to order a USB cord extension so it would reach all the way 
to the G4 tower (on the floor). But if I did that would it work okay? 
Never thought about doing this before but I'm sick of those old M2452 
keyboards going bad.

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#145751

On 2025-08-19 22:53:17 +0000, super70s said:

> I use an Apple A1242 keyboard on a couple of my newer iMacs 
> (hard-wired). I like them because they're about as compact as possible 
> and seem to be pretty reliable.
> 
> I also use an old PowerMac G4 MDD pretty often which I've always used 
> Apple M2452 keyboards with. Those keyboards don't have the best 
> reliability and they're dust/hair/grit collectors and I'm always having 
> to order (used, of course) replacements for them on eBay.

If it is only dirt under the keys, then you can pop the keys off fairly 
easily (the longer ones such as the spacebar, shift, etc. can be a bit 
of a pain to get back on, so perhaps leave those on).

If the dirt has gotten inside the casing itself, then it is more 
difficult to do because of the plastic clip that easily breaks.
<https://siber-sonic.com/mac/keyboards/M2452.html>.



> My question is would an Apple A1242 keyboard work on the G3? I would at 
> least have to order a USB cord extension so it would reach all the way 
> to the G4 tower (on the floor). But if I did that would it work okay? 
> Never thought about doing this before but I'm sick of those old M2452 
> keyboards going bad.

The Apple A1242 wired keyboard specs say it works with MacOS X 10.5.6 
or newer. It may or may not work with older versions of the OS. The 
simplest option would be to just try it on the PowerMac. Plug the 
keyboard into the back and use it on the floor if necessary, to see if 
it will work.

Another option is any old cheap Windows keyboard which should work, 
although you usually have to remap the Command and Option keys since 
Windows has them the wrong way around.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#145752

On 2025-08-20 05:32:36 +0000, Your Name said:

> On 2025-08-19 22:53:17 +0000, super70s said:
> 
>> I use an Apple A1242 keyboard on a couple of my newer iMacs 
>> (hard-wired). I like them because they're about as compact as possible 
>> and seem to be pretty reliable.
>> 
>> I also use an old PowerMac G4 MDD pretty often which I've always used 
>> Apple M2452 keyboards with. Those keyboards don't have the best 
>> reliability and they're dust/hair/grit collectors and I'm always having 
>> to order (used, of course) replacements for them on eBay.
> 
> If it is only dirt under the keys, then you can pop the keys off fairly 
> easily (the longer ones such as the spacebar, shift, etc. can be a bit 
> of a pain to get back on, so perhaps leave those on).
> 
> If the dirt has gotten inside the casing itself, then it is more 
> difficult to do because of the plastic clip that easily breaks.
> <https://siber-sonic.com/mac/keyboards/M2452.html>.

The latest time this happened some of the keys just quit working, the 
"e" for instance. I know how to pop the keys and clean under them but 
it didn't make any difference.

I ordered a replacement (which the guy said was untested so it was 
relatively cheap -- those things usually go for around $30 postage 
paid) and all the keys worked OK except the spacebar was stubborn about 
coming back up, even after I cleaned the hell out of it in every place. 
So I used the old beanie and put a small piece of sponge under it so it 
would, lol.

I have two systems that use the M2452 so I'll just use this one as a 
backup. I try to have two working ones on hand in case the main one 
suddenly goes bad.

>> My question is would an Apple A1242 keyboard work on the G3? I would at 
>> least have to order a USB cord extension so it would reach all the way 
>> to the G4 tower (on the floor). But if I did that would it work okay? 
>> Never thought about doing this before but I'm sick of those old M2452 
>> keyboards going bad.
> 
> The Apple A1242 wired keyboard specs say it works with MacOS X 10.5.6 
> or newer. It may or may not work with older versions of the OS. The 
> simplest option would be to just try it on the PowerMac. Plug the 
> keyboard into the back and use it on the floor if necessary, to see if 
> it will work.

Damn, I'm running 10.4.9 on those two machines (even though I split the 
drive and do have 10.5.6 on them too but I never use that OS because it 
can't run Classic apps). But I will try the A1242 on them, it could 
work like you say. If it does all I'll need is the USB extension cord.

> Another option is any old cheap Windows keyboard which should work, 
> although you usually have to remap the Command and Option keys since 
> Windows has them the wrong way around.

Usually I'm Apple to the core, lol. But the Windows keyboards could 
probably be bought for a song, that's a good idea.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#145753

On 2025-08-20 06:48:42 +0000, super70s said:
> On 2025-08-20 05:32:36 +0000, Your Name said:
>> On 2025-08-19 22:53:17 +0000, super70s said:
>>> 
>>> I use an Apple A1242 keyboard on a couple of my newer iMacs 
>>> (hard-wired). I like them because they're about as compact as possible 
>>> and seem to be pretty reliable.
>>> 
>>> I also use an old PowerMac G4 MDD pretty often which I've always used 
>>> Apple M2452 keyboards with. Those keyboards don't have the best 
>>> reliability and they're dust/hair/grit collectors and I'm always having 
>>> to order (used, of course) replacements for them on eBay.
>> 
>> If it is only dirt under the keys, then you can pop the keys off fairly 
>> easily (the longer ones such as the spacebar, shift, etc. can be a bit 
>> of a pain to get back on, so perhaps leave those on).
>> 
>> If the dirt has gotten inside the casing itself, then it is more 
>> difficult to do because of the plastic clip that easily breaks.
>> <https://siber-sonic.com/mac/keyboards/M2452.html>.
> 
> The latest time this happened some of the keys just quit working, the 
> "e" for instance. I know how to pop the keys and clean under them but 
> it didn't make any difference.
> 
> I ordered a replacement (which the guy said was untested so it was 
> relatively cheap -- those things usually go for around $30 postage 
> paid) and all the keys worked OK except the spacebar was stubborn about 
> coming back up, even after I cleaned the hell out of it in every place. 
> So I used the old beanie and put a small piece of sponge under it so it 
> would, lol.
> 
> I have two systems that use the M2452 so I'll just use this one as a 
> backup. I try to have two working ones on hand in case the main one 
> suddenly goes bad.
> 
>>> My question is would an Apple A1242 keyboard work on the G3? I would at 
>>> least have to order a USB cord extension so it would reach all the way 
>>> to the G4 tower (on the floor). But if I did that would it work okay? 
>>> Never thought about doing this before but I'm sick of those old M2452 
>>> keyboards going bad.
>> 
>> The Apple A1242 wired keyboard specs say it works with MacOS X 10.5.6 
>> or newer. It may or may not work with older versions of the OS. The 
>> simplest option would be to just try it on the PowerMac. Plug the 
>> keyboard into the back and use it on the floor if necessary, to see if 
>> it will work.
> 
> Damn, I'm running 10.4.9 on those two machines (even though I split the 
> drive and do have 10.5.6 on them too but I never use that OS because it 
> can't run Classic apps). But I will try the A1242 on them, it could 
> work like you say. If it does all I'll need is the USB extension cord.

A USB hub with a long cable might be a better idea, since it would 
allow you to plug in the keyboard, mouse, and provide easy access for 
USB thumb drives.



>> Another option is any old cheap Windows keyboard which should work, 
>> although you usually have to remap the Command and Option keys since 
>> Windows has them the wrong way around.
> 
> Usually I'm Apple to the core, lol. But the Windows keyboards could 
> probably be bought for a song, that's a good idea.

I've been using an wired Logitech K120 Windows keyboard and mouse with 
this 2014 Mac Mini since I got it in 2018. Both are plugged into a USB 
hub because there simply aren't enough USB ports on the computer for 
everything. No problems and it cost me under US$20 for the set brand 
new. It's obviously not as aesthetically nice as all Apple, but nobody 
but me really ever sees or uses it anyway. (The screen is a Samsung TV 
too.)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#145754

On 2025-08-20 07:30:12 +0000, Your Name said:

> On 2025-08-20 06:48:42 +0000, super70s said:
>> On 2025-08-20 05:32:36 +0000, Your Name said:
>>> On 2025-08-19 22:53:17 +0000, super70s said:
>>>> 
>>>> I use an Apple A1242 keyboard on a couple of my newer iMacs 
>>>> (hard-wired). I like them because they're about as compact as possible 
>>>> and seem to be pretty reliable.
>>>> 
>>>> I also use an old PowerMac G4 MDD pretty often which I've always used 
>>>> Apple M2452 keyboards with. Those keyboards don't have the best 
>>>> reliability and they're dust/hair/grit collectors and I'm always having 
>>>> to order (used, of course) replacements for them on eBay.
>>> 
>>> If it is only dirt under the keys, then you can pop the keys off fairly 
>>> easily (the longer ones such as the spacebar, shift, etc. can be a bit 
>>> of a pain to get back on, so perhaps leave those on).
>>> 
>>> If the dirt has gotten inside the casing itself, then it is more 
>>> difficult to do because of the plastic clip that easily breaks.
>>> <https://siber-sonic.com/mac/keyboards/M2452.html>.
>> 
>> The latest time this happened some of the keys just quit working, the 
>> "e" for instance. I know how to pop the keys and clean under them but 
>> it didn't make any difference.
>> 
>> I ordered a replacement (which the guy said was untested so it was 
>> relatively cheap -- those things usually go for around $30 postage 
>> paid) and all the keys worked OK except the spacebar was stubborn about 
>> coming back up, even after I cleaned the hell out of it in every place. 
>> So I used the old beanie and put a small piece of sponge under it so it 
>> would, lol.
>> 
>> I have two systems that use the M2452 so I'll just use this one as a 
>> backup. I try to have two working ones on hand in case the main one 
>> suddenly goes bad.
>> 
>>>> My question is would an Apple A1242 keyboard work on the G3? I would at 
>>>> least have to order a USB cord extension so it would reach all the way 
>>>> to the G4 tower (on the floor). But if I did that would it work okay? 
>>>> Never thought about doing this before but I'm sick of those old M2452 
>>>> keyboards going bad.
>>> 
>>> The Apple A1242 wired keyboard specs say it works with MacOS X 10.5.6 
>>> or newer. It may or may not work with older versions of the OS. The 
>>> simplest option would be to just try it on the PowerMac. Plug the 
>>> keyboard into the back and use it on the floor if necessary, to see if 
>>> it will work.
>> 
>> Damn, I'm running 10.4.9 on those two machines (even though I split the 
>> drive and do have 10.5.6 on them too but I never use that OS because it 
>> can't run Classic apps). But I will try the A1242 on them, it could 
>> work like you say. If it does all I'll need is the USB extension cord.
> 
> A USB hub with a long cable might be a better idea, since it would 
> allow you to plug in the keyboard, mouse, and provide easy access for 
> USB thumb drives.

I already have an old Belkin hub on the primary G4 for peripherals like 
the printer, scanner and extra CD-ROM, I guess I could just plug the 
keyboard directly into that. Although I never could get an external 
floppy drive to work with it, it fussed it wasn't getting enough power 
-- even when I gave the hub it's own power supply. I even plugged the 
floppy drive directly into the G4 and it still argued about not enough 
power.

>>> Another option is any old cheap Windows keyboard which should work, 
>>> although you usually have to remap the Command and Option keys since 
>>> Windows has them the wrong way around.
>> 
>> Usually I'm Apple to the core, lol. But the Windows keyboards could 
>> probably be bought for a song, that's a good idea.
> 
> I've been using an wired Logitech K120 Windows keyboard and mouse with 
> this 2014 Mac Mini since I got it in 2018. Both are plugged into a USB 
> hub because there simply aren't enough USB ports on the computer for 
> everything. No problems and it cost me under US$20 for the set brand 
> new. It's obviously not as aesthetically nice as all Apple, but nobody 
> but me really ever sees or uses it anyway. (The screen is a Samsung TV 
> too.)

"Logitech K120 Windows keyboard," thanks I'll look for that on eBay. I 
was hoping for some direction in the Windows wilderness. I'm at the 
point on this older system where I don't care about aesthetics and 
branding, but since I have limited desk space I wouldn't want the 
keyboard to have a bigger footprint than the M2452 (about 15" x 5 
1/2"). The A1242 keyboards are only 11" x 4 1/2".

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#145756

On 2025-08-20 11:23:59 +0000, super70s said:
> On 2025-08-20 07:30:12 +0000, Your Name said:
> 
>> On 2025-08-20 06:48:42 +0000, super70s said:
>>> On 2025-08-20 05:32:36 +0000, Your Name said:
>>>> On 2025-08-19 22:53:17 +0000, super70s said:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I use an Apple A1242 keyboard on a couple of my newer iMacs 
>>>>> (hard-wired). I like them because they're about as compact as possible 
>>>>> and seem to be pretty reliable.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I also use an old PowerMac G4 MDD pretty often which I've always used 
>>>>> Apple M2452 keyboards with. Those keyboards don't have the best 
>>>>> reliability and they're dust/hair/grit collectors and I'm always having 
>>>>> to order (used, of course) replacements for them on eBay.
>>>> 
>>>> If it is only dirt under the keys, then you can pop the keys off fairly 
>>>> easily (the longer ones such as the spacebar, shift, etc. can be a bit 
>>>> of a pain to get back on, so perhaps leave those on).
>>>> 
>>>> If the dirt has gotten inside the casing itself, then it is more 
>>>> difficult to do because of the plastic clip that easily breaks.
>>>> <https://siber-sonic.com/mac/keyboards/M2452.html>.
>>> 
>>> The latest time this happened some of the keys just quit working, the 
>>> "e" for instance. I know how to pop the keys and clean under them but 
>>> it didn't make any difference.
>>> 
>>> I ordered a replacement (which the guy said was untested so it was 
>>> relatively cheap -- those things usually go for around $30 postage 
>>> paid) and all the keys worked OK except the spacebar was stubborn about 
>>> coming back up, even after I cleaned the hell out of it in every place. 
>>> So I used the old beanie and put a small piece of sponge under it so it 
>>> would, lol.
>>> 
>>> I have two systems that use the M2452 so I'll just use this one as a 
>>> backup. I try to have two working ones on hand in case the main one 
>>> suddenly goes bad.
>>> 
>>>>> My question is would an Apple A1242 keyboard work on the G3? I would at 
>>>>> least have to order a USB cord extension so it would reach all the way 
>>>>> to the G4 tower (on the floor). But if I did that would it work okay? 
>>>>> Never thought about doing this before but I'm sick of those old M2452 
>>>>> keyboards going bad.
>>>> 
>>>> The Apple A1242 wired keyboard specs say it works with MacOS X 10.5.6 
>>>> or newer. It may or may not work with older versions of the OS. The 
>>>> simplest option would be to just try it on the PowerMac. Plug the 
>>>> keyboard into the back and use it on the floor if necessary, to see if 
>>>> it will work.
>>> 
>>> Damn, I'm running 10.4.9 on those two machines (even though I split the 
>>> drive and do have 10.5.6 on them too but I never use that OS because it 
>>> can't run Classic apps). But I will try the A1242 on them, it could 
>>> work like you say. If it does all I'll need is the USB extension cord.
>> 
>> A USB hub with a long cable might be a better idea, since it would 
>> allow you to plug in the keyboard, mouse, and provide easy access for 
>> USB thumb drives.
> 
> I already have an old Belkin hub on the primary G4 for peripherals like 
> the printer, scanner and extra CD-ROM, I guess I could just plug the 
> keyboard directly into that. Although I never could get an external 
> floppy drive to work with it, it fussed it wasn't getting enough power 
> -- even when I gave the hub it's own power supply. I even plugged the 
> floppy drive directly into the G4 and it still argued about not enough 
> power.

You could try a double-USB plug so it gets power from two USB ports. 
That's what my external DVD-burner uses. My external USB floppy drive 
only needs one plug.

Neither likes working through the my USB hub, despite it being a 
supposedly powered hub. The external USB-powered hard drives don't work 
through the hub either, but the external wall-powered hard drive does.



>>>> Another option is any old cheap Windows keyboard which should work, 
>>>> although you usually have to remap the Command and Option keys since 
>>>> Windows has them the wrong way around.
>>> 
>>> Usually I'm Apple to the core, lol. But the Windows keyboards could 
>>> probably be bought for a song, that's a good idea.
>> 
>> I've been using an wired Logitech K120 Windows keyboard and mouse with 
>> this 2014 Mac Mini since I got it in 2018. Both are plugged into a USB 
>> hub because there simply aren't enough USB ports on the computer for 
>> everything. No problems and it cost me under US$20 for the set brand 
>> new. It's obviously not as aesthetically nice as all Apple, but nobody 
>> but me really ever sees or uses it anyway. (The screen is a Samsung TV 
>> too.)
> 
> "Logitech K120 Windows keyboard," thanks I'll look for that on eBay. I 
> was hoping for some direction in the Windows wilderness. I'm at the 
> point on this older system where I don't care about aesthetics and 
> branding, but since I have limited desk space I wouldn't want the 
> keyboard to have a bigger footprint than the M2452 (about 15" x 5 
> 1/2"). The A1242 keyboards are only 11" x 4 1/2".

The K120 is a fairly big keybaord with separate numberpad, curcos keys, 
and page up / down cluster, all full-travel keys. The mouse is fairly 
light with two-buttons and a scrollwheel. Apart from remapping the 
Command and Option keys, everything worked with the Mac Mini's original 
version of MacOS and with High Sierra (10.13) it runs now, without any 
extra software installed.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#145757

On 2025-08-20 21:02:15 +0000, Your Name said:

> On 2025-08-20 11:23:59 +0000, super70s said:
>> On 2025-08-20 07:30:12 +0000, Your Name said:
>> 
>>> On 2025-08-20 06:48:42 +0000, super70s said:
>>>> On 2025-08-20 05:32:36 +0000, Your Name said:
>>>>> On 2025-08-19 22:53:17 +0000, super70s said:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I use an Apple A1242 keyboard on a couple of my newer iMacs 
>>>>>> (hard-wired). I like them because they're about as compact as possible 
>>>>>> and seem to be pretty reliable.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I also use an old PowerMac G4 MDD pretty often which I've always used 
>>>>>> Apple M2452 keyboards with. Those keyboards don't have the best 
>>>>>> reliability and they're dust/hair/grit collectors and I'm always having 
>>>>>> to order (used, of course) replacements for them on eBay.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If it is only dirt under the keys, then you can pop the keys off fairly 
>>>>> easily (the longer ones such as the spacebar, shift, etc. can be a bit 
>>>>> of a pain to get back on, so perhaps leave those on).
>>>>> 
>>>>> If the dirt has gotten inside the casing itself, then it is more 
>>>>> difficult to do because of the plastic clip that easily breaks.
>>>>> <https://siber-sonic.com/mac/keyboards/M2452.html>.
>>>> 
>>>> The latest time this happened some of the keys just quit working, the 
>>>> "e" for instance. I know how to pop the keys and clean under them but 
>>>> it didn't make any difference.
>>>> 
>>>> I ordered a replacement (which the guy said was untested so it was 
>>>> relatively cheap -- those things usually go for around $30 postage 
>>>> paid) and all the keys worked OK except the spacebar was stubborn about 
>>>> coming back up, even after I cleaned the hell out of it in every place. 
>>>> So I used the old beanie and put a small piece of sponge under it so it 
>>>> would, lol.
>>>> 
>>>> I have two systems that use the M2452 so I'll just use this one as a 
>>>> backup. I try to have two working ones on hand in case the main one 
>>>> suddenly goes bad.
>>>> 
>>>>>> My question is would an Apple A1242 keyboard work on the G3? I would at 
>>>>>> least have to order a USB cord extension so it would reach all the way 
>>>>>> to the G4 tower (on the floor). But if I did that would it work okay? 
>>>>>> Never thought about doing this before but I'm sick of those old M2452 
>>>>>> keyboards going bad.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Apple A1242 wired keyboard specs say it works with MacOS X 10.5.6 
>>>>> or newer. It may or may not work with older versions of the OS. The 
>>>>> simplest option would be to just try it on the PowerMac. Plug the 
>>>>> keyboard into the back and use it on the floor if necessary, to see if 
>>>>> it will work.
>>>> 
>>>> Damn, I'm running 10.4.9 on those two machines (even though I split the 
>>>> drive and do have 10.5.6 on them too but I never use that OS because it 
>>>> can't run Classic apps). But I will try the A1242 on them, it could 
>>>> work like you say. If it does all I'll need is the USB extension cord.
>>> 
>>> A USB hub with a long cable might be a better idea, since it would 
>>> allow you to plug in the keyboard, mouse, and provide easy access for 
>>> USB thumb drives.
>> 
>> I already have an old Belkin hub on the primary G4 for peripherals like 
>> the printer, scanner and extra CD-ROM, I guess I could just plug the 
>> keyboard directly into that. Although I never could get an external 
>> floppy drive to work with it, it fussed it wasn't getting enough power 
>> -- even when I gave the hub it's own power supply. I even plugged the 
>> floppy drive directly into the G4 and it still argued about not enough 
>> power.
> 
> You could try a double-USB plug so it gets power from two USB ports. 
> That's what my external DVD-burner uses. My external USB floppy drive 
> only needs one plug.
> 
> Neither likes working through the my USB hub, despite it being a 
> supposedly powered hub. The external USB-powered hard drives don't work 
> through the hub either, but the external wall-powered hard drive does.

Update: I plugged a A1242 keyboard into the older system's hub, got a 
"not enough power" dialog and it froze the machine. I was discouraged 
but then I plugged it directly into the G4 and it seemed to work fine! 
So I ordered another A1242 to use with this older system. I can ditch 
those dinosaur M2452 keyboards once and for all.

BTW where did you get those details about the A1242 keyboard, 
EveryMac.com? I often go there for info on different models (normally 
my own) but I didn't think to use it for Apple peripherals. I didn't 
think they'd have any info on keyboards further than what keyboard 
originally shipped with a particular model.

>>>>> Another option is any old cheap Windows keyboard which should work, 
>>>>> although you usually have to remap the Command and Option keys since 
>>>>> Windows has them the wrong way around.
>>>> 
>>>> Usually I'm Apple to the core, lol. But the Windows keyboards could 
>>>> probably be bought for a song, that's a good idea.
>>> 
>>> I've been using an wired Logitech K120 Windows keyboard and mouse with 
>>> this 2014 Mac Mini since I got it in 2018. Both are plugged into a USB 
>>> hub because there simply aren't enough USB ports on the computer for 
>>> everything. No problems and it cost me under US$20 for the set brand 
>>> new. It's obviously not as aesthetically nice as all Apple, but nobody 
>>> but me really ever sees or uses it anyway. (The screen is a Samsung TV 
>>> too.)
>> 
>> "Logitech K120 Windows keyboard," thanks I'll look for that on eBay. I 
>> was hoping for some direction in the Windows wilderness. I'm at the 
>> point on this older system where I don't care about aesthetics and 
>> branding, but since I have limited desk space I wouldn't want the 
>> keyboard to have a bigger footprint than the M2452 (about 15" x 5 
>> 1/2"). The A1242 keyboards are only 11" x 4 1/2".
> 
> The K120 is a fairly big keybaord with separate numberpad, curcos keys, 
> and page up / down cluster, all full-travel keys. The mouse is fairly 
> light with two-buttons and a scrollwheel. Apart from remapping the 
> Command and Option keys, everything worked with the Mac Mini's original 
> version of MacOS and with High Sierra (10.13) it runs now, without any 
> extra software installed.

I have gripes about Apple mice also, I use the old Apple Mouse M5769 on 
all my machines, even the newer iMacs. One time a Mighty Mouse A1152 
(or possibly a Magic Mouse variation) shipped with one of the used 
computers I bought, it seemed to cause problems with the system so I 
replaced it with a M5769. I never needed that scrollwheel function 
anyway (or was just too used to living without it).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#145758

On 2025-08-20 21:27:42 +0000, super70s said:
> On 2025-08-20 21:02:15 +0000, Your Name said:
>> On 2025-08-20 11:23:59 +0000, super70s said:
>>> On 2025-08-20 07:30:12 +0000, Your Name said:
>>>> On 2025-08-20 06:48:42 +0000, super70s said:
>>>>> On 2025-08-20 05:32:36 +0000, Your Name said:
>>>>>> On 2025-08-19 22:53:17 +0000, super70s said:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I use an Apple A1242 keyboard on a couple of my newer iMacs 
>>>>>>> (hard-wired). I like them because they're about as compact as possible 
>>>>>>> and seem to be pretty reliable.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I also use an old PowerMac G4 MDD pretty often which I've always used 
>>>>>>> Apple M2452 keyboards with. Those keyboards don't have the best 
>>>>>>> reliability and they're dust/hair/grit collectors and I'm always having 
>>>>>>> to order (used, of course) replacements for them on eBay.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If it is only dirt under the keys, then you can pop the keys off fairly 
>>>>>> easily (the longer ones such as the spacebar, shift, etc. can be a bit 
>>>>>> of a pain to get back on, so perhaps leave those on).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If the dirt has gotten inside the casing itself, then it is more 
>>>>>> difficult to do because of the plastic clip that easily breaks.
>>>>>> <https://siber-sonic.com/mac/keyboards/M2452.html>.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The latest time this happened some of the keys just quit working, the 
>>>>> "e" for instance. I know how to pop the keys and clean under them but 
>>>>> it didn't make any difference.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I ordered a replacement (which the guy said was untested so it was 
>>>>> relatively cheap -- those things usually go for around $30 postage 
>>>>> paid) and all the keys worked OK except the spacebar was stubborn about 
>>>>> coming back up, even after I cleaned the hell out of it in every place. 
>>>>> So I used the old beanie and put a small piece of sponge under it so it 
>>>>> would, lol.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have two systems that use the M2452 so I'll just use this one as a 
>>>>> backup. I try to have two working ones on hand in case the main one 
>>>>> suddenly goes bad.
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> My question is would an Apple A1242 keyboard work on the G3? I would at 
>>>>>>> least have to order a USB cord extension so it would reach all the way 
>>>>>>> to the G4 tower (on the floor). But if I did that would it work okay? 
>>>>>>> Never thought about doing this before but I'm sick of those old M2452 
>>>>>>> keyboards going bad.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The Apple A1242 wired keyboard specs say it works with MacOS X 10.5.6 
>>>>>> or newer. It may or may not work with older versions of the OS. The 
>>>>>> simplest option would be to just try it on the PowerMac. Plug the 
>>>>>> keyboard into the back and use it on the floor if necessary, to see if 
>>>>>> it will work.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Damn, I'm running 10.4.9 on those two machines (even though I split the 
>>>>> drive and do have 10.5.6 on them too but I never use that OS because it 
>>>>> can't run Classic apps). But I will try the A1242 on them, it could 
>>>>> work like you say. If it does all I'll need is the USB extension cord.
>>>> 
>>>> A USB hub with a long cable might be a better idea, since it would 
>>>> allow you to plug in the keyboard, mouse, and provide easy access for 
>>>> USB thumb drives.
>>> 
>>> I already have an old Belkin hub on the primary G4 for peripherals like 
>>> the printer, scanner and extra CD-ROM, I guess I could just plug the 
>>> keyboard directly into that. Although I never could get an external 
>>> floppy drive to work with it, it fussed it wasn't getting enough power 
>>> -- even when I gave the hub it's own power supply. I even plugged the 
>>> floppy drive directly into the G4 and it still argued about not enough 
>>> power.
>> 
>> You could try a double-USB plug so it gets power from two USB ports. 
>> That's what my external DVD-burner uses. My external USB floppy drive 
>> only needs one plug.
>> 
>> Neither likes working through the my USB hub, despite it being a 
>> supposedly powered hub. The external USB-powered hard drives don't work 
>> through the hub either, but the external wall-powered hard drive does.
> 
> Update: I plugged a A1242 keyboard into the older system's hub, got a 
> "not enough power" dialog and it froze the machine. I was discouraged 
> but then I plugged it directly into the G4 and it seemed to work fine! 
> So I ordered another A1242 to use with this older system. I can ditch 
> those dinosaur M2452 keyboards once and for all.

Good it works. There's no real reason is shouldn't ... a keyboard is a 
keyboard is a keyboard.  :-)

With some hubs, you can get more power by rearranging the USB plugs. 
The power is often supplied in order, so the USB socket closest to the 
power socket will get the most power first in the line.



> BTW where did you get those details about the A1242 keyboard, EveryMac.com?

Just a quick Google search and the results page showed a few places 
saying that was the version of MacOS required.

I also doubled-checked with the MacTracker app, which is an excellent 
resource for Apple hardware and sofrtware information and regularly 
updated.
<https://mactracker.ca>




> I often go there for info on different models (normally my own) but I 
> didn't think to use it for Apple peripherals. I didn't think they'd 
> have any info on keyboards further than what keyboard originally 
> shipped with a particular model.
> 
>>>>>> Another option is any old cheap Windows keyboard which should work, 
>>>>>> although you usually have to remap the Command and Option keys since 
>>>>>> Windows has them the wrong way around.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Usually I'm Apple to the core, lol. But the Windows keyboards could 
>>>>> probably be bought for a song, that's a good idea.
>>>> 
>>>> I've been using an wired Logitech K120 Windows keyboard and mouse with 
>>>> this 2014 Mac Mini since I got it in 2018. Both are plugged into a USB 
>>>> hub because there simply aren't enough USB ports on the computer for 
>>>> everything. No problems and it cost me under US$20 for the set brand 
>>>> new. It's obviously not as aesthetically nice as all Apple, but nobody 
>>>> but me really ever sees or uses it anyway. (The screen is a Samsung TV 
>>>> too.)
>>> 
>>> "Logitech K120 Windows keyboard," thanks I'll look for that on eBay. I 
>>> was hoping for some direction in the Windows wilderness. I'm at the 
>>> point on this older system where I don't care about aesthetics and 
>>> branding, but since I have limited desk space I wouldn't want the 
>>> keyboard to have a bigger footprint than the M2452 (about 15" x 5 
>>> 1/2"). The A1242 keyboards are only 11" x 4 1/2".
>> 
>> The K120 is a fairly big keybaord with separate numberpad, curcos keys, 
>> and page up / down cluster, all full-travel keys. The mouse is fairly 
>> light with two-buttons and a scrollwheel. Apart from remapping the 
>> Command and Option keys, everything worked with the Mac Mini's original 
>> version of MacOS and with High Sierra (10.13) it runs now, without any 
>> extra software installed.
> 
> I have gripes about Apple mice also, I use the old Apple Mouse M5769 on 
> all my machines, even the newer iMacs. One time a Mighty Mouse A1152 
> (or possibly a Magic Mouse variation) shipped with one of the used 
> computers I bought, it seemed to cause problems with the system so I 
> replaced it with a M5769. I never needed that scrollwheel function 
> anyway (or was just too used to living without it).

I've never had any real problems with Apple's mice, although not a 
great fan of the flat mouse which often pinched my fingers when 
pressing the button.

The 'squeeze' feature was a pain in the backside, but easily turned off 
in the system preferences.

A lot of people complained about the original iMac "pebble mouse", but 
I never had any problems with it (most of the complaints were about not 
knowing which way was "up" without looking at it because it was round, 
but it was easy to feel the wire coming out the top and the button!).

Many also complained about the scrollball mouse because the ball got 
dirty and would stick, but it was easy enough to clean. Maybe those 
people should wash their hand more often.  ;-)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#145759

In article <1085s6g$llc1$1@dont-email.me>,
 Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> On 2025-08-20 21:27:42 +0000, super70s said:
> > On 2025-08-20 21:02:15 +0000, Your Name said:
> >> On 2025-08-20 11:23:59 +0000, super70s said:
> >>> On 2025-08-20 07:30:12 +0000, Your Name said:
> >>>> On 2025-08-20 06:48:42 +0000, super70s said:
> >>>>> On 2025-08-20 05:32:36 +0000, Your Name said:
> >>>>>> On 2025-08-19 22:53:17 +0000, super70s said:
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> I use an Apple A1242 keyboard on a couple of my newer iMacs 
> >>>>>>> (hard-wired). I like them because they're about as compact as 
> >>>>>>> possible 
> >>>>>>> and seem to be pretty reliable.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> I also use an old PowerMac G4 MDD pretty often which I've always used 
> >>>>>>> Apple M2452 keyboards with. Those keyboards don't have the best 
> >>>>>>> reliability and they're dust/hair/grit collectors and I'm always 
> >>>>>>> having 
> >>>>>>> to order (used, of course) replacements for them on eBay.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> If it is only dirt under the keys, then you can pop the keys off 
> >>>>>> fairly 
> >>>>>> easily (the longer ones such as the spacebar, shift, etc. can be a bit 
> >>>>>> of a pain to get back on, so perhaps leave those on).
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> If the dirt has gotten inside the casing itself, then it is more 
> >>>>>> difficult to do because of the plastic clip that easily breaks.
> >>>>>> <https://siber-sonic.com/mac/keyboards/M2452.html>.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> The latest time this happened some of the keys just quit working, the 
> >>>>> "e" for instance. I know how to pop the keys and clean under them but 
> >>>>> it didn't make any difference.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> I ordered a replacement (which the guy said was untested so it was 
> >>>>> relatively cheap -- those things usually go for around $30 postage 
> >>>>> paid) and all the keys worked OK except the spacebar was stubborn about 
> >>>>> coming back up, even after I cleaned the hell out of it in every place. 
> >>>>> So I used the old beanie and put a small piece of sponge under it so it 
> >>>>> would, lol.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> I have two systems that use the M2452 so I'll just use this one as a 
> >>>>> backup. I try to have two working ones on hand in case the main one 
> >>>>> suddenly goes bad.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>>>> My question is would an Apple A1242 keyboard work on the G3? I would 
> >>>>>>> at 
> >>>>>>> least have to order a USB cord extension so it would reach all the 
> >>>>>>> way 
> >>>>>>> to the G4 tower (on the floor). But if I did that would it work okay? 
> >>>>>>> Never thought about doing this before but I'm sick of those old M2452 
> >>>>>>> keyboards going bad.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> The Apple A1242 wired keyboard specs say it works with MacOS X 10.5.6 
> >>>>>> or newer. It may or may not work with older versions of the OS. The 
> >>>>>> simplest option would be to just try it on the PowerMac. Plug the 
> >>>>>> keyboard into the back and use it on the floor if necessary, to see if 
> >>>>>> it will work.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Damn, I'm running 10.4.9 on those two machines (even though I split the 
> >>>>> drive and do have 10.5.6 on them too but I never use that OS because it 
> >>>>> can't run Classic apps). But I will try the A1242 on them, it could 
> >>>>> work like you say. If it does all I'll need is the USB extension cord.
> >>>> 
> >>>> A USB hub with a long cable might be a better idea, since it would 
> >>>> allow you to plug in the keyboard, mouse, and provide easy access for 
> >>>> USB thumb drives.
> >>> 
> >>> I already have an old Belkin hub on the primary G4 for peripherals like 
> >>> the printer, scanner and extra CD-ROM, I guess I could just plug the 
> >>> keyboard directly into that. Although I never could get an external 
> >>> floppy drive to work with it, it fussed it wasn't getting enough power 
> >>> -- even when I gave the hub it's own power supply. I even plugged the 
> >>> floppy drive directly into the G4 and it still argued about not enough 
> >>> power.
> >> 
> >> You could try a double-USB plug so it gets power from two USB ports. 
> >> That's what my external DVD-burner uses. My external USB floppy drive 
> >> only needs one plug.
> >> 
> >> Neither likes working through the my USB hub, despite it being a 
> >> supposedly powered hub. The external USB-powered hard drives don't work 
> >> through the hub either, but the external wall-powered hard drive does.
> > 
> > Update: I plugged a A1242 keyboard into the older system's hub, got a 
> > "not enough power" dialog and it froze the machine. I was discouraged 
> > but then I plugged it directly into the G4 and it seemed to work fine! 
> > So I ordered another A1242 to use with this older system. I can ditch 
> > those dinosaur M2452 keyboards once and for all.
> 
> Good it works. There's no real reason is shouldn't ... a keyboard is a 
> keyboard is a keyboard.  :-)
> 
> With some hubs, you can get more power by rearranging the USB plugs. 
> The power is often supplied in order, so the USB socket closest to the 
> power socket will get the most power first in the line.

Hmm I didn't realize that, good to know for future reference.

I have my Belkin hub plugged directly into the G4 for additional power 
but I don't think it makes any difference, I think everything that's 
plugged into it would work without that. I never cared enough about it 
to try some other hub to see if that makes any difference. The only 
thing that wanted more power was an external floppy drive like I said 
before, and now the A1242 keyboard.

> > BTW where did you get those details about the A1242 keyboard, EveryMac.com?
> 
> Just a quick Google search and the results page showed a few places 
> saying that was the version of MacOS required.
> 
> I also doubled-checked with the MacTracker app, which is an excellent 
> resource for Apple hardware and sofrtware information and regularly 
> updated.
> <https://mactracker.ca>

Thanks I'll bookmark that one.

> > I often go there for info on different models (normally my own) but I 
> > didn't think to use it for Apple peripherals. I didn't think they'd 
> > have any info on keyboards further than what keyboard originally 
> > shipped with a particular model.
> > 
> >>>>>> Another option is any old cheap Windows keyboard which should work, 
> >>>>>> although you usually have to remap the Command and Option keys since 
> >>>>>> Windows has them the wrong way around.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Usually I'm Apple to the core, lol. But the Windows keyboards could 
> >>>>> probably be bought for a song, that's a good idea.
> >>>> 
> >>>> I've been using an wired Logitech K120 Windows keyboard and mouse with 
> >>>> this 2014 Mac Mini since I got it in 2018. Both are plugged into a USB 
> >>>> hub because there simply aren't enough USB ports on the computer for 
> >>>> everything. No problems and it cost me under US$20 for the set brand 
> >>>> new. It's obviously not as aesthetically nice as all Apple, but nobody 
> >>>> but me really ever sees or uses it anyway. (The screen is a Samsung TV 
> >>>> too.)
> >>> 
> >>> "Logitech K120 Windows keyboard," thanks I'll look for that on eBay. I 
> >>> was hoping for some direction in the Windows wilderness. I'm at the 
> >>> point on this older system where I don't care about aesthetics and 
> >>> branding, but since I have limited desk space I wouldn't want the 
> >>> keyboard to have a bigger footprint than the M2452 (about 15" x 5 
> >>> 1/2"). The A1242 keyboards are only 11" x 4 1/2".
> >> 
> >> The K120 is a fairly big keybaord with separate numberpad, curcos keys, 
> >> and page up / down cluster, all full-travel keys. The mouse is fairly 
> >> light with two-buttons and a scrollwheel. Apart from remapping the 
> >> Command and Option keys, everything worked with the Mac Mini's original 
> >> version of MacOS and with High Sierra (10.13) it runs now, without any 
> >> extra software installed.
> > 
> > I have gripes about Apple mice also, I use the old Apple Mouse M5769 on 
> > all my machines, even the newer iMacs. One time a Mighty Mouse A1152 
> > (or possibly a Magic Mouse variation) shipped with one of the used 
> > computers I bought, it seemed to cause problems with the system so I 
> > replaced it with a M5769. I never needed that scrollwheel function 
> > anyway (or was just too used to living without it).
> 
> I've never had any real problems with Apple's mice, although not a 
> great fan of the flat mouse which often pinched my fingers when 
> pressing the button.
> 
> The 'squeeze' feature was a pain in the backside, but easily turned off 
> in the system preferences.
> 
> A lot of people complained about the original iMac "pebble mouse", but 
> I never had any problems with it (most of the complaints were about not 
> knowing which way was "up" without looking at it because it was round, 
> but it was easy to feel the wire coming out the top and the button!).

Yeah that thing just looked too weird to me, I never had any experience 
with it thank God. That came out about the same Apple was getting 2 cute 
x 1/2 with the "fruit" iMac models. I never had one of those, but I did 
have an iMac Snow -- the last in the line and my first OSX machine.

> Many also complained about the scrollball mouse because the ball got 
> dirty and would stick, but it was easy enough to clean. Maybe those 
> people should wash their hand more often.  ;-)

Grit can accumulate around your mouse area before you realize it, for 
many years I used an old vinyl-covered '90s vintage mouse pad that said 
"Apple" on it that shipped with their early models. I was constantly 
having to clean it along with the underside of the mouse so I switched 
to a cloth-covered (or some material that seems like cloth) "iPad" mouse 
pad (not marketed by Apple, some company in China) with a built-in wrist 
rest that I could buy at the local Big Lots. I rarely have to do any 
maintenance on it or the underside of the mouse now. Unfortunately that 
was one of the stores Big Lots closed down but those pads are probably 
readily available on eBay when they start wearing out (I have had to 
replace them a few times).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#145760

On 2025-08-21 03:31:10 +0000, super70s said:
 Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
<snip>
>> With some hubs, you can get more power by rearranging the USB plugs.
>> The power is often supplied in order, so the USB socket closest to the
>> power socket will get the most power first in the line.
> 
> Hmm I didn't realize that, good to know for future reference.
> 
> I have my Belkin hub plugged directly into the G4 for additional power
> but I don't think it makes any difference, I think everything that's
> plugged into it would work without that. I never cared enough about it
> to try some other hub to see if that makes any difference. The only
> thing that wanted more power was an external floppy drive like I said
> before, and now the A1242 keyboard.

A hub with it's own separate wall socket power supply gives more power 
than USB from the computer alone, but it depends on things like the 
version of USB, etc. as to how much power the socket supplies and how 
much the device needs. Some hubs (and computers) may also have a 
mixture of USB sockets, so some are lower power than others.

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Back to top | Article view | comp.sys.mac.system

csiph-web