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Late 2012 iMac - HD / SATA speed incorrect?

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  Late 2012 iMac - HD / SATA speed incorrect? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-07 16:21 -0400
    Re: Late 2012 iMac - HD / SATA speed incorrect? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-10-07 17:11 -0400
      Re: Late 2012 iMac - HD / SATA speed incorrect? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-07 17:28 -0400
        Re: Late 2012 iMac - HD / SATA speed incorrect? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-10-07 17:43 -0400
          Re: Late 2012 iMac - HD / SATA speed incorrect? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-07 17:55 -0400
    Re: Late 2012 iMac - HD / SATA speed incorrect? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-08 19:27 +1300
      Re: Late 2012 iMac - HD / SATA speed incorrect? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-08 03:31 -0400
        Re: Late 2012 iMac - HD / SATA speed incorrect? Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2013-10-08 18:32 +0200
      Re: Late 2012 iMac - HD / SATA speed incorrect? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-08 16:25 -0400
    Re: Late 2012 iMac - HD / SATA speed incorrect? nospam@ab-katrinedal.dk (Niels Jørgen Kruse) - 2013-10-08 12:45 +0200
      Re: Late 2012 iMac - HD / SATA speed incorrect? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-09 09:07 +1300
    Re: Late 2012 iMac - HD / SATA speed incorrect? - [solved] Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-08 16:27 -0400

#49637 — Late 2012 iMac - HD / SATA speed incorrect?

Delving into the system nitties and gritties, the System information for 
the hard disk shows ( see "<--")

Note that the HD is the ST1000DM003 (Seagate) which has a 6 GB/s SATA 
specification.

So why is the Negotiated Link Speed at 3 instead of 6 GB/s?

Thanks.

Details:

1) (HDD)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Intel 7 Series Chipset:

   Vendor:	Intel
   Product:	7 Series Chipset
   Link Speed:	6 Gigabit                                 <--
   Negotiated Link Speed:	3 Gigabit                 <--
   Physical Interconnect:	SATA
   Description:	AHCI Version 1.30 Supported

APPLE HDD ST1000DM003:           <- that's Apple for "Seagate 1TB".

   Capacity:	1 TB (1,000,204,886,016 bytes)
   Model:	APPLE HDD ST1000DM003
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

and then the SSD (Fusion)
2) (SSD)
Intel 7 Series Chipset:

   Vendor:	Intel
   Product:	7 Series Chipset
   Link Speed:	6 Gigabit                                 <--
   Negotiated Link Speed:	6 Gigabit                 <--
   Physical Interconnect:	SATA
   Description:	AHCI Version 1.30 Supported

APPLE SSD SM128E:                                     <- Fusion

   Capacity:	121.33 GB (121,332,826,112 bytes)
   Model:	APPLE SSD SM128E
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


-- 
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."
                                                  -Unknown

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#49651

On 13-10-07 16:21, Alan Browne wrote:

> Note that the HD is the ST1000DM003 (Seagate) which has a 6 GB/s SATA 
> specification.
> 
> So why is the Negotiated Link Speed at 3 instead of 6 GB/s?

The display showed it was APPLE HDD ST1000DM003, not a seagate drive.

Apple has its own firmware in it.

here is an example: For my xserve, the physical drives shows Hitachi
HDS723020BLA642 on the physical label. Which is a desktop grade drive.

But the OS sees it as Hitachi HUA72202ALA330 , which is a server grade
Hitachi drive.


So in your case, it is quite possible that your drive has physical specs
of 3gbps/secdon even if it has firmware from a different drive whose
real specs show higher speeds.


Also, consider cable internet. The actual link speed is roughly 40mbps
per channel on the coax. But your subscription limits it to say 10mbps.
So while the SATA link speed may be 6gbps, that drive may have specs of
only 3gbps and thus speak at that speed.

Also, the whole "fusion" thing would make less sense if both drives had
similar performance.

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#49652

On 2013.10.07 17:11 , JF Mezei wrote:
> On 13-10-07 16:21, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>> Note that the HD is the ST1000DM003 (Seagate) which has a 6 GB/s SATA
>> specification.
>>
>> So why is the Negotiated Link Speed at 3 instead of 6 GB/s?
>
> The display showed it was APPLE HDD ST1000DM003, not a seagate drive.

Google ST1000DM003 and get back to me.

>
> Apple has its own firmware in it.

How do you know?

> Also, the whole "fusion" thing would make less sense if both drives had
> similar performance.

Irrelevant - should be the disk slowing the link / not the link slowing 
the disk.


-- 
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."
                                                  -Unknown

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#49654

On 13-10-07 17:28, Alan Browne wrote:

>> The display showed it was APPLE HDD ST1000DM003, not a seagate drive.
> 
> Google ST1000DM003 and get back to me.
> 
>>
>> Apple has its own firmware in it.
> 
> How do you know?

Because the disk shows up as **APPLE** HDD ST1000DM003 in software.

If you open the case, and look at the actual physical model number, you
might find a very different model number for the hardware.


> Irrelevant - should be the disk slowing the link / not the link slowing 
> the disk.

Your display shows a link of 6gbps, with the disk working at 3gbps. But
the SDD runs at 6gbps on the 6gbps link. Looks to me like the disk is
not specced to run at 6gbps so it negotiates its link to 3gbps.

If Apple were evil, they could have purposefully limited the drive to
the same speed as the previous generation iMac. This way, they can brag
about how much better performance fusion brings. And with the next
generation imacs being all SSDs, they can brag about even better
performance.

If they make too big an improvement in one year, it means the next year,
the improvement will be very marginal and not convince anyone to upgrade.

End of "if Apple were evil" speculation with tin foil hat on.

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#49655

On 2013.10.07 17:43 , JF Mezei wrote:
> On 13-10-07 17:28, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>>> The display showed it was APPLE HDD ST1000DM003, not a seagate drive.
>>
>> Google ST1000DM003 and get back to me.
>>
>>>
>>> Apple has its own firmware in it.
>>
>> How do you know?
>
> Because the disk shows up as **APPLE** HDD ST1000DM003 in software.
>
> If you open the case, and look at the actual physical model number, you
> might find a very different model number for the hardware.

Or more likely: not.

Most HDD's sold these days are 6 GB/S SATA.
>
>
>> Irrelevant - should be the disk slowing the link / not the link slowing
>> the disk.
>
> Your display shows a link of 6gbps, with the disk working at 3gbps. But
> the SDD runs at 6gbps on the 6gbps link. Looks to me like the disk is
> not specced to run at 6gbps so it negotiates its link to 3gbps.

Above.

>
> If Apple were evil, they could have purposefully limited the drive to
> the same speed as the previous generation iMac. This way, they can brag
> about how much better performance fusion brings. And with the next
> generation imacs being all SSDs, they can brag about even better
> performance.
>
> If they make too big an improvement in one year, it means the next year,
> the improvement will be very marginal and not convince anyone to upgrade.
>
> End of "if Apple were evil" speculation with tin foil hat on.

To be considered - I have seen other reports of the same situation online.

I'd bet by the next really big iMac revision that they will go to PCIe 
SSD only.



-- 
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."
                                                  -Unknown

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#49677

In article <0bqdnfeeuOpXis7PnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> Delving into the system nitties and gritties, the System information for 
> the hard disk shows ( see "<--")
> 
> Note that the HD is the ST1000DM003 (Seagate) which has a 6 GB/s SATA 
> specification.
> 
> So why is the Negotiated Link Speed at 3 instead of 6 GB/s?

I think the system inforamtion application is a bit buggy.

On my PowerMac the "Apple System profiler" application says:

    Machine speed :  267MHz
    Bus speed     :  67MHz

in reality that's 1MHz more than it officially should be and what
appears in the "About This Mac" window or similar system information
applications under Mac OS 9.

Under the PCI section it also lists the add USB card three times -
which could be due to the card having multiple USB ports*, BUT the
entries are different.

    A1:  
        Card Type  :  usb  
        Card Name  :  pci1033,35 
        Card Model :  Not available 
        Vendor ID  :  1033 
        Device ID  :  35   
        ROM#       :  Not available 
        Revision   :  43   
        
    A1:  
        Card Type   :  usb 
        Card Name   :  pci1033,35   
        Card Model  :  Not available   
        Vendor ID   :  1033   
        Device ID   :  35  
        ROM#        :  Not available   
        Revision    :  43  
        
    A1:  
        Card Type   :  usb 
        Card Name   :  pci1033,e0   
        Card Model  :  Not available   
        Vendor ID   :  1033   
        Device ID   :  e0  
        ROM#        :  Not available   
        Revision    :  4

* I can't remember how many and can't be bothered pulling
  the tower out to look, although I'm sure there's more
  than three - I have a vague recollection of it being
  three external and one internal.

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#49680

In article <081020131927479567%YourName@YourISP.com>, Your Name
<YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> > Delving into the system nitties and gritties, the System information for 
> > the hard disk shows ( see "<--")
> > 
> > Note that the HD is the ST1000DM003 (Seagate) which has a 6 GB/s SATA 
> > specification.
> > 
> > So why is the Negotiated Link Speed at 3 instead of 6 GB/s?
> 
> I think the system inforamtion application is a bit buggy.

nothing significant.

> On my PowerMac the "Apple System profiler" application says:
> 
>     Machine speed :  267MHz
>     Bus speed     :  67MHz
> 
> in reality that's 1MHz more than it officially should be and what
> appears in the "About This Mac" window or similar system information
> applications under Mac OS 9.

it's actually 266.666... mhz, which rounds up to 267, but 266 sounds
better for marketing it and the difference does not make a difference
that anyone would notice.

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#49718

In article <081020130331468231%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
 nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <081020131927479567%YourName@YourISP.com>, Your Name
> <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> 
> > > Delving into the system nitties and gritties, the System information for 
> > > the hard disk shows ( see "<--")
> > > 
> > > Note that the HD is the ST1000DM003 (Seagate) which has a 6 GB/s SATA 
> > > specification.
> > > 
> > > So why is the Negotiated Link Speed at 3 instead of 6 GB/s?
> > 
> > I think the system inforamtion application is a bit buggy.
> 
> nothing significant.
> 
> > On my PowerMac the "Apple System profiler" application says:
> > 
> >     Machine speed :  267MHz
> >     Bus speed     :  67MHz
> > 
> > in reality that's 1MHz more than it officially should be and what
> > appears in the "About This Mac" window or similar system information
> > applications under Mac OS 9.
> 
> it's actually 266.666... mhz, which rounds up to 267, but 266 sounds
> better for marketing it and the difference does not make a difference
> that anyone would notice.

Yes, it's just the way rounding is done.

Though I do recall a work PC which was supposed to have a 600MHz CPU, 
but the system info program showed it at 599.  A slow clock or 
something, because the others in that batch all showed 600.

-- 
Paul Sture

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#49709

On 2013.10.08 02:27 , Your Name wrote:
> In article <0bqdnfeeuOpXis7PnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> Delving into the system nitties and gritties, the System information for
>> the hard disk shows ( see "<--")
>>
>> Note that the HD is the ST1000DM003 (Seagate) which has a 6 GB/s SATA
>> specification.
>>
>> So why is the Negotiated Link Speed at 3 instead of 6 GB/s?
>
> I think the system inforamtion application is a bit buggy.
>
> On my PowerMac the "Apple System profiler" application says:
>
>      Machine speed :  267MHz
>      Bus speed     :  67MHz
>
> in reality that's 1MHz more than it officially should be and what

Rounding.  266.66666666 ---> 267


-- 
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."
                                                  -Unknown

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#49684

Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> Delving into the system nitties and gritties, the System information for
> the hard disk shows ( see "<--")
> 
> Note that the HD is the ST1000DM003 (Seagate) which has a 6 GB/s SATA
> specification.
> 
> So why is the Negotiated Link Speed at 3 instead of 6 GB/s?

Perhaps they decided they could save a bit of heat by not running the
interface faster than the disk can use?

Mine is from the early rush on that model and the negotiated link sped
on the (Western Digital) HDD is 6 Gbit/s.

-- 
Mvh./Regards,    Niels Jørgen Kruse,    Vanløse, Denmark

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#49707

In article <1laf9x8.775h021i8obcwN%nospam@ab-katrinedal.dk>, Niels
Jørgen Kruse <nospam@ab-katrinedal.dk> wrote:

> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> 
> > Delving into the system nitties and gritties, the System information for
> > the hard disk shows ( see "<--")
> > 
> > Note that the HD is the ST1000DM003 (Seagate) which has a 6 GB/s SATA
> > specification.
> > 
> > So why is the Negotiated Link Speed at 3 instead of 6 GB/s?
> 
> Perhaps they decided they could save a bit of heat by not running the
> interface faster than the disk can use?
> 
> Mine is from the early rush on that model and the negotiated link sped
> on the (Western Digital) HDD is 6 Gbit/s.

Of course, the "negotiated link speed" or the "actual speed" of
anything is never going to be the same as the "quoted / theoretical
speed" - that goes for hard drive, modems, connections like USB, etc.

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#49710 — Re: Late 2012 iMac - HD / SATA speed incorrect? - [solved]

Well - much ado about nothing <blush>

The Seagate in question, per spec, does sustained transfer of about 210 
MB/s - that's about 1.7 Gb/s. So the 3.0 Gb/s negotiated interface is 
more than ample.

OTOH, the SSD is much faster, so the 6 Gb/s rate is needed.

-- 
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."
                                                  -Unknown

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