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[NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models

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  [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-09-25 08:58 +1200
    Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-24 17:50 -0400
      Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> - 2013-09-25 10:53 -0400
        Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-25 16:43 -0400
        Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models - ping Fred Moore Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-26 17:17 -0400
    Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-09-25 03:21 +0000
      Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-25 16:44 -0400
    Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Michael Savich <michaelusenet@icloud.com> - 2013-09-28 16:36 -0400
      Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-28 17:01 -0400
        Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-09-29 09:48 +1200
          Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-28 18:10 -0400
            Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-09-29 11:45 +1200
              Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-29 07:23 -0400
            Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2013-09-29 13:47 -0700
              Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-29 17:56 -0400
                Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-09-29 19:16 -0400
                  Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-09-30 13:27 +1200
                    Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-29 20:51 -0400
                      Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-09-30 16:44 +1200
                        Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-09-30 16:45 +1200
                          Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-05 10:05 -0400
                            Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-06 10:15 +1300
                              Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-05 17:59 -0400
                                Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-06 17:32 +1300
                      Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-09-30 01:41 -0400
                        Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-01 09:25 +1200
                          Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-09-30 16:41 -0400
                            Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-01 20:07 +1200
                              Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-10-01 09:08 -0700
                            Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-10-01 11:14 -0700
                              Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-10-01 11:39 -0700
                                Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-10-01 13:42 -0700
                                  Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-10-01 15:48 -0700
                                    Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-10-01 16:30 -0700
                                  Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-03 16:32 -0400
                              Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-10-01 21:34 -0400
                                Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-02 16:03 +1200
                                Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-03 16:29 -0400
                                  Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-10-04 12:19 +0000
                                    Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-05 10:04 +1200
                                    Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-04 18:33 -0400
                                      Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-10-04 19:26 -0700
                                        Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2013-10-05 03:52 -0600
                                        Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-05 10:00 -0400
                                      Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-10-04 23:05 -0400
                                        Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-05 09:59 -0400
                            Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-01 17:14 -0400
                          Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-01 17:05 -0400
                    Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2013-09-30 12:14 -0700
                      Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-01 09:26 +1200
                        Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-09-30 16:42 -0400
                          Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2013-09-30 14:06 -0700
                            Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-01 20:15 +1200
                              Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2013-10-01 18:35 +0200
                                Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-02 09:15 +1200
                                  Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-01 17:08 -0400
                          Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-01 20:16 +1200
                      Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-03 16:34 -0400
                  Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-09-29 20:49 -0400
      Re: [NEWS] Apple releases updated iMac models Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2013-10-01 11:14 -0700

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#49388

On 2013.10.04 08:19 , Lewis wrote:
> In message <JfCdneMrTukkTtDPnZ2dnUVZ_qqdnZ2d@giganews.com>
>    Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2013.10.01 21:34 , JF Mezei wrote:
>>> On 13-10-01 14:14, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm curious why no other computer manufacturers have addressed this
>>>> glaring problem!
>>>
>>> Digital Equipment's Microvax II in the midsize cabinet had top down
>>> airflow, with air exiting at floor level. Same with the 1990s Vax 4000
>>> series cabinets for both CPU and disk array cabinets.
>>>
>>> And rackmounted gear in a data centre now requires front to back airflow
>>> with cabinets arranged to collect hot air from back of cabinets. So the
>
>> But usually down-to-up flow just the same (front to back; bottom to top).
>
>> It's a convection convention.
>
>>> new MacPro is definitly not rack friendly,
>
>> Ya think being a 6.6 inch dia. cylinder near 10" high makes it "not rack
>> friendly".
>
>> Spread the word!
>
> Well, you should be able to put 7 or 8 of them on a rack shelf. Let's
> see, 10" is how many units? 6? I guess you might want to leave another
> full unit for the convection, so call it 7 Mac Pros in 7U. That's not
> bad.

I didn't say it can't be done.  But very obviously the new MP is not 
meant for server racks.  One could install a much more powerful set of 
servers in the same volume and likely for a lot less money.

The MP's processing oomph is its 2 graphics beasts, not the mere 12 core 
Xeon... unless the server is doing math/graphics intense computing, it's 
just not the right machine.

>>> The real world would expect a guy of Ive's experience to have mitigated
>>> the problem os dust instead of making it worse. That is what industrial
>>> engineering is all about.
>
>> The only two mitigations are a relatively clean room (and I've seen a
>> lot of dust in PDP-11 and VAX cabinets kept in climate controlled
>> computer rooms) or filters.  Filters would require the fans to work
>> harder or have very large surface areas.
>
> The air flow is up the inside of a center column. The critical
> components are OUTSIDE of that column, with their heat sinks on the
> cooling side. Sounds like there will be very little in the way of dust
> inside the machine.

Nonsense.  First off the "center column" that you speak of is inside the 
machine.  (No topology based replies, please).

If there is airflow and no filter there will be dust.  Any dust that 
accretes in the heat sink "chimney" will reduce heat transfer.  From 
time to time one will want to run pipe cleaners through there.

Also, I would expect (Apple site presentation notwithstanding) there to 
be airflow (if much less) on the inside shell of the unit - that is to 
say between the shell and the "outside" of the three boards.  To be seen 
- but such would invite dust there as well.

-- 
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."
                                                  -Unknown

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#49404

In article <5ZSdnUXXr5LZ39LPnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
 Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> Nonsense.  First off the "center column" that you speak of is inside the 
> machine.  (No topology based replies, please).

Why not?  The MP, like the human body, and a coffee cup is topologically a 
donut.

-- 
All usenet users are quirky, but some are more quirky than others.

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#49418

Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> The MP, like the human body, and a coffee cup is topologically a 
> donut.

With the new Mac Pro, gastrulation comes to silicon-based life. 

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#49428

On 2013.10.04 22:26 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
> In article <5ZSdnUXXr5LZ39LPnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>   Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> Nonsense.  First off the "center column" that you speak of is inside the
>> machine.  (No topology based replies, please).
>
> Why not?  The MP, like the human body, and a coffee cup is topologically a
> donut.

Topology math is useless for mechanical engineers who have cooling 
designs to conceive.

-- 
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."
                                                  -Unknown

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#49405

On 13-10-04 18:33, Alan Browne wrote:

> Nonsense.  First off the "center column" that you speak of is inside the 
> machine.  (No topology based replies, please).
> 
> If there is airflow and no filter there will be dust.  Any dust that 
> accretes in the heat sink "chimney" will reduce heat transfer.  From 
> time to time one will want to run pipe cleaners through there.


I looked at the Apple Mac Pro "animations" again.
https://www.apple.com/mac-pro/

circuit boards are against a solid plate on the outside of core
"triangle".  So the outside surface of the core is solid with no airflow
going from the outer to the inner core.

However, the side of triangle where there is memory (*and I assume the
CPU) appears recessed enough to have a portion opened to blower,s air
intake, which means that the blower might be drawing some air also via
the outside of the CPU board.



The inside surface of the core is finned with no easy access to clean
inside (aka: you'll need compressed air to get the dust out, or some
thin long brush). The space between fins is ripe to give birth to dust
bunnies.

BTW, there appears to be some electronics and a large connector on the
removable base. The connector is right smack in the centre. So it isn't
clear how the air flows from the bottom air inlets on outside of
cylinder to the inner core.

We'll have to wait for iFixit to do a tear down to better understand its
design.


BTW, the recent NYT article about the launch of the iPhone had an
interesting "editorial" statement from some Apple employees to the
effect that Ive's group are artists, not engineers and this results in
some lack fo understanding of some concepts (the example was an all
metal casing for iPhone which shielded internal antennals from outside
signals)

I find it hard to beliecve thyat a company the size of Apple where
industrial design is such a core to its products would not have
"engineering" types inside Jony Ive's group who would point out the
engineering flaws to the museum-worthy designs.

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#49427

On 2013.10.04 23:05 , JF Mezei wrote:
> On 13-10-04 18:33, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>> Nonsense.  First off the "center column" that you speak of is inside the
>> machine.  (No topology based replies, please).
>>
>> If there is airflow and no filter there will be dust.  Any dust that
>> accretes in the heat sink "chimney" will reduce heat transfer.  From
>> time to time one will want to run pipe cleaners through there.
>
>
> I looked at the Apple Mac Pro "animations" again.
> https://www.apple.com/mac-pro/
>
> circuit boards are against a solid plate on the outside of core
> "triangle".  So the outside surface of the core is solid with no airflow
> going from the outer to the inner core.
>
> However, the side of triangle where there is memory (*and I assume the
> CPU) appears recessed enough to have a portion opened to blower,s air
> intake, which means that the blower might be drawing some air also via
> the outside of the CPU board.
>

Yes- that's basically what I said in my prior post - last para.

>
> The inside surface of the core is finned with no easy access to clean
> inside (aka: you'll need compressed air to get the dust out, or some
> thin long brush). The space between fins is ripe to give birth to dust
> bunnies.

Pipe cleaners - if you can get access to the core heatsink.

>
> BTW, there appears to be some electronics and a large connector on the
> removable base. The connector is right smack in the centre. So it isn't
> clear how the air flows from the bottom air inlets on outside of
> cylinder to the inner core.

Probably around the edges and back towards the center.

>
> We'll have to wait for iFixit to do a tear down to better understand its
> design.
>
>
> BTW, the recent NYT article about the launch of the iPhone had an
> interesting "editorial" statement from some Apple employees to the
> effect that Ive's group are artists, not engineers and this results in
> some lack fo understanding of some concepts (the example was an all
> metal casing for iPhone which shielded internal antennals from outside
> signals)
>
> I find it hard to beliecve thyat a company the size of Apple where
> industrial design is such a core to its products would not have
> "engineering" types inside Jony Ive's group who would point out the
> engineering flaws to the museum-worthy designs.

I was not surprised at all - remember "antennagate"?  And I've mentioned 
many times here how hard disk cooling was poorly designed in the 24" 
iMac - though at first blush, that of the MP looks pretty well done.

This compulsion if Johnny Ive to make things pretty over function and 
maintenance is the only peeve I have with Apple.

-- 
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."
                                                  -Unknown

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#49248

On 2013.09.30 16:41 , JF Mezei wrote:

> The dense innards of the new Mac Pro and the blower design leads me to
> believe there will be greater airflow through the unit than normal tower
> designs.

Not greater flow overall, but perhaps optimal flow in contact with hot 
parts.  More efficient.

> For the new MacPro, there are small slots at the very bottom of the
> unit, which means that air will pass through at higher speed through the
> slots and thus greater chance of them picking up the materials necessary
> to give birth to large dust bunnies inside.

You don't know what the real opening cross section is.  Generally one 
would make the incoming cross section close in area to the output cross 
section and optionally larger than the internal cross section for the 
air path.  They've stuck a very high contact area heat sink in the 
middle of it all.

As I look at the photo on the Mac site I see about 30 generous slots at 
in an image that covers nearly half the bottom circumference.

If each of those slots has a 1 cm^2 area and there are over 60 of them 
then that is over 60 cm^2 of area (nearly 8 cm X 8 cm).  That's a lot of 
area (and I've probably underestimated the size of each slot and the number.

>
> I am really surprised Ive and his team went this route instead of
> pushing air down the unit. If I know of the problems of dust collection,
> then surely someone of Ive's stature (and all of his staff) would know
> of it too.

- More efficient to follow the convection path.
- Structurally easier to put the fan on top.
- Better to pull air through - allows simple ducting at the bottom to 
make sure air gets to where it is needed - flow then follows the vacuum

Pushing air to where it is needed requires more complex ducting (like 
the crap in the 24" iMac and risks uneven cooling and voids.

As to dust - it's everywhere.  There may be more on the floor as that's 
where it settles and gets kicked up - but over time the inside will get 
well coated no matter what they do unless they add a filter - that then 
requires the fan to work harder and occasional maintenance (the fan 
manager could raise the alert based on increasing fan speed needed for a 
given load and ambient temperature, I suppose).

-- 
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."
                                                  -Unknown

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#49245

On 2013.09.30 17:25 , Your Name wrote:

> All computers suck up dust, even the ones without fans although to a
> lesser extent. Since many tower computers already sit on or close to
> the floor level, they all act as vacuum cleaners.

Given how small the new Mac Pro is, I'd bet on more people putting them 
on their desk or up on a shelf.  They'll still attract dust but maybe a 
little less than on the floor.


-- 
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."
                                                  -Unknown

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#49186

On 2013-09-30 01:27:55 +0000, Your Name said:

> In article <5248b4d4$0$49610$c3e8da3$fdf4f6af@news.astraweb.com>, JF
> Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> 
>> With regards to Imac, I suspect Ive may have provided a solution to
>> Cook, but Cook ruled that additional manufacturing costs to make SD
>> card slot accessible not worth it. So it went in the back, directly
>> connected to the motherboard.
> 
> The card slot is likely to be the next thing to be removed. Few people
> use fiddle about with the silly little cards - they simply plug the
> camera in via a USB cable, or these days more cameras are coming with
> wireless connection capabilities.

That's what I thought.  And I plugged my camera in via USB for quite some
time before bothering to try the SD card.

And it was shocking - shocking - how much faster the SD card is.  I'll
never plug in that USB again.  (Aside from the fact that the USB (a) drains
the camera's battery for no good reason; (b) requires reaching around the
back of the machine to get to the USB ports).  The SD card is easily an
order of magnitude faster.  I'm awfully glad to have the slot and since my
machine is a 2011, to have it easily accessible on the side of the machine.

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#49189

In article <l2ciii$791$1@reader1.panix.com>, Bread
<BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> wrote:

> On 2013-09-30 01:27:55 +0000, Your Name said:
> 
> > In article <5248b4d4$0$49610$c3e8da3$fdf4f6af@news.astraweb.com>, JF
> > Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> > 
> >> With regards to Imac, I suspect Ive may have provided a solution to
> >> Cook, but Cook ruled that additional manufacturing costs to make SD
> >> card slot accessible not worth it. So it went in the back, directly
> >> connected to the motherboard.
> > 
> > The card slot is likely to be the next thing to be removed. Few people
> > use fiddle about with the silly little cards - they simply plug the
> > camera in via a USB cable, or these days more cameras are coming with
> > wireless connection capabilities.
> 
> That's what I thought.  And I plugged my camera in via USB for quite some
> time before bothering to try the SD card.
> 
> And it was shocking - shocking - how much faster the SD card is.  I'll
> never plug in that USB again.  (Aside from the fact that the USB (a) drains
> the camera's battery for no good reason; (b) requires reaching around the
> back of the machine to get to the USB ports).  The SD card is easily an
> order of magnitude faster.  I'm awfully glad to have the slot and since my
> machine is a 2011, to have it easily accessible on the side of the machine.

Very likely true, but most people aren't transferring enough photos at
one time to worry about a few extra seconds, even if they knew about
it.

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#49191

On 13-09-30 17:26, Your Name wrote:

> Very likely true, but most people aren't transferring enough photos at
> one time to worry about a few extra seconds, even if they knew about
> it.

Journalists tend to take a whole lot of pictures every day, and they
need fast transfers. (consider cameras that take multiple shots at a few
frames per second so the journalist can then select the better picture
of some politicial talking).

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#49192

On 2013-09-30 20:42:35 +0000, JF Mezei said:

> On 13-09-30 17:26, Your Name wrote:
> 
>> Very likely true, but most people aren't transferring enough photos at
>> one time to worry about a few extra seconds, even if they knew about
>> it.
> 
> Journalists tend to take a whole lot of pictures every day, and they
> need fast transfers. (consider cameras that take multiple shots at a few
> frames per second so the journalist can then select the better picture
> of some politicial talking).

Forget journalists.  I'm an amateur (okay, I have two kids, and I take 
vastly more pictures and video since they were born than I ever did 
before).  And the difference is very notable.  I use a Nikon D90, and 
between the pictures and the video, it's very well worth using the SD 
card.

On a day where I took 10 pictures, maybe not.

After a vacation, however, it's a no-brainer.

I imagine that in that respect, I'm more like "most people" nowadays 
than I used to be.  And newer cameras take even larger, higher-res 
photos than the ones I'm taking.

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#49210

In article <l2cp58$bab$1@reader1.panix.com>, Bread
<BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> wrote:
> On 2013-09-30 20:42:35 +0000, JF Mezei said:
> > On 13-09-30 17:26, Your Name wrote:
> > 
> >> Very likely true, but most people aren't transferring enough photos at
> >> one time to worry about a few extra seconds, even if they knew about
> >> it.
> > 
> > Journalists tend to take a whole lot of pictures every day, and they
> > need fast transfers. (consider cameras that take multiple shots at a few
> > frames per second so the journalist can then select the better picture
> > of some politicial talking).
> 
> Forget journalists.  I'm an amateur (okay, I have two kids, and I take 
> vastly more pictures and video since they were born than I ever did 
> before).  And the difference is very notable.  I use a Nikon D90, and 
> between the pictures and the video, it's very well worth using the SD 
> card.
> 
> On a day where I took 10 pictures, maybe not.
> 
> After a vacation, however, it's a no-brainer.
> 
> I imagine that in that respect, I'm more like "most people" nowadays 
> than I used to be.  And newer cameras take even larger, higher-res 
> photos than the ones I'm taking.

Most people simply don't take huge numbers of photos in one go. Even at
a big event you'd be lucky to take more than say 20 photos. They
usually take a few photos, transfer those to the computer and that's it
until next time.

The only time most people take a lot of photos would be something like
an overseas or long holiday, where they are away from the computer for
an extended period of time (unless of course they use a laptop and have
taken that with them).

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#49222

In article <011020132015579078%YourName@YourISP.com>,
 Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> In article <l2cp58$bab$1@reader1.panix.com>, Bread
> <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> wrote:
> > On 2013-09-30 20:42:35 +0000, JF Mezei said:
> > > On 13-09-30 17:26, Your Name wrote:
> > > 
> > >> Very likely true, but most people aren't transferring enough photos at
> > >> one time to worry about a few extra seconds, even if they knew about
> > >> it.
> > > 
> > > Journalists tend to take a whole lot of pictures every day, and they
> > > need fast transfers. (consider cameras that take multiple shots at a few
> > > frames per second so the journalist can then select the better picture
> > > of some politicial talking).
> > 
> > Forget journalists.  I'm an amateur (okay, I have two kids, and I take 
> > vastly more pictures and video since they were born than I ever did 
> > before).  And the difference is very notable.  I use a Nikon D90, and 
> > between the pictures and the video, it's very well worth using the SD 
> > card.
> > 
> > On a day where I took 10 pictures, maybe not.
> > 
> > After a vacation, however, it's a no-brainer.
> > 
> > I imagine that in that respect, I'm more like "most people" nowadays 
> > than I used to be.  And newer cameras take even larger, higher-res 
> > photos than the ones I'm taking.
> 
> Most people simply don't take huge numbers of photos in one go. Even at
> a big event you'd be lucky to take more than say 20 photos. They
> usually take a few photos, transfer those to the computer and that's it
> until next time.

Define "Big event".  When they had a classic car event nearby I had no 
trouble taking about 180 photos during the afternoon.

> The only time most people take a lot of photos would be something like
> an overseas or long holiday, where they are away from the computer for
> an extended period of time (unless of course they use a laptop and have
> taken that with them).

On my last holiday I took some 800 photos in 5 days.  I suppose that 
makes me not "most people".

-- 
Paul Sture

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#49239

In article <nospam-037E00.18350701102013@news.chingola.ch>, Paul Sture
<nospam@sture.ch> wrote:

> In article <011020132015579078%YourName@YourISP.com>,
>  Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> 
> > In article <l2cp58$bab$1@reader1.panix.com>, Bread
> > <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> wrote:
> > > On 2013-09-30 20:42:35 +0000, JF Mezei said:
> > > > On 13-09-30 17:26, Your Name wrote:
> > > > 
> > > >> Very likely true, but most people aren't transferring enough photos at
> > > >> one time to worry about a few extra seconds, even if they knew about
> > > >> it.
> > > > 
> > > > Journalists tend to take a whole lot of pictures every day, and they
> > > > need fast transfers. (consider cameras that take multiple shots at a few
> > > > frames per second so the journalist can then select the better picture
> > > > of some politicial talking).
> > > 
> > > Forget journalists.  I'm an amateur (okay, I have two kids, and I take 
> > > vastly more pictures and video since they were born than I ever did 
> > > before).  And the difference is very notable.  I use a Nikon D90, and 
> > > between the pictures and the video, it's very well worth using the SD 
> > > card.
> > > 
> > > On a day where I took 10 pictures, maybe not.
> > > 
> > > After a vacation, however, it's a no-brainer.
> > > 
> > > I imagine that in that respect, I'm more like "most people" nowadays 
> > > than I used to be.  And newer cameras take even larger, higher-res 
> > > photos than the ones I'm taking.
> > 
> > Most people simply don't take huge numbers of photos in one go. Even at
> > a big event you'd be lucky to take more than say 20 photos. They
> > usually take a few photos, transfer those to the computer and that's it
> > until next time.
> 
> Define "Big event".  When they had a classic car event nearby I had no 
> trouble taking about 180 photos during the afternoon.
> 
> > The only time most people take a lot of photos would be something like
> > an overseas or long holiday, where they are away from the computer for
> > an extended period of time (unless of course they use a laptop and have
> > taken that with them).
> 
> On my last holiday I took some 800 photos in 5 days.  I suppose that 
> makes me not "most people".

If you're taking 180 photos at a car show, then you're correct and you
are not "most people" ... most people visiting a car show don't even
take a camera with them, and even most of those that do have a camera
don't take anywhere near 180 photos.

Since most people don't change (or even know to change) the default
settings on the camera, they usually can't even fit 180 of the
overly-high resolution photos in the camera's memory.

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#49246

In article <021020130915011203%YourName@YourISP.com>, Your Name
<YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> > > The only time most people take a lot of photos would be something like
> > > an overseas or long holiday, where they are away from the computer for
> > > an extended period of time (unless of course they use a laptop and have
> > > taken that with them).
> > 
> > On my last holiday I took some 800 photos in 5 days.  I suppose that 
> > makes me not "most people".
> 
> If you're taking 180 photos at a car show, then you're correct and you
> are not "most people" ... most people visiting a car show don't even
> take a camera with them,

oh yes they do.

> and even most of those that do have a camera
> don't take anywhere near 180 photos.

bullshit. 

any digital camera today can take well in excess of 180 photos and not
even with the highest capacity cards either. 

> Since most people don't change (or even know to change) the default
> settings on the camera, they usually can't even fit 180 of the
> overly-high resolution photos in the camera's memory.

more bullshit.

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#49211

In article <5249e23b$0$46287$c3e8da3$3a1a2348@news.astraweb.com>, JF
Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 13-09-30 17:26, Your Name wrote:
> > 
> > Very likely true, but most people aren't transferring enough photos at
> > one time to worry about a few extra seconds, even if they knew about
> > it.
> 
> Journalists tend to take a whole lot of pictures every day, and they
> need fast transfers. (consider cameras that take multiple shots at a few
> frames per second so the journalist can then select the better picture
> of some politicial talking).

Journalists are the general public though. That would be like saying
muscians need a piano-style keyboard, so why doesn't Apple include one
in the box ... because 95% of people aren't musicians. The same is true
of people taking large numbers of photos, they're a minimal fraction of
computer or camera users.

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#49300

On 2013.09.30 15:14 , Bread wrote:

> And it was shocking - shocking - how much faster the SD card is.  I'll
> never plug in that USB again.  (Aside from the fact that the USB (a) drains
> the camera's battery for no good reason; (b) requires reaching around the
> back of the machine to get to the USB ports).

a) I wonder why the camera makers need the camera on to use the USB?  I 
have 2 GPS' that use USB power to offload GPS recordings.

b) I leave cables attached to the computer (via a hub) at all times for 
the GPS and camera card reader.

I'll be looking for some good USB 3.0 card readers - should improve the 
upload time from the card considerably (CF).

-- 
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."
                                                  -Unknown

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#49170

On 2013.09.29 19:16 , JF Mezei wrote:
> On 13-09-29 17:56, Alan Browne wrote:
>>   I don't use SD but putting it where it
>> is for the sake of Johnny Ive in the Reality Distortion Field comfort is
>> actually very poor design putting form way beyond function.
>>
>> He needs a good slap in the face, frankly.
>
> He's not gonna get one. When Cook fired Forstall, Ive was basically made
> Jobs V2.0 (aka God).

I wouldn't go that far.  Seeing Ive in the last video touting the 5S he 
looked and sounded stoned.  I'm not suggesting he was on drugs, mind 
you, but rather that he seems physiologically incompatible with the RDF 
generator.

> I doubt anyone within Apple has the guts to criticise Jony Ive at this
> point in time.
>
> With regards to Imac, I suspect Ive may have provided a solution to
> Cook, but Cook ruled that additional manufacturing costs to make SD card
> slot accessible not worth it. So it went in the back, directly connected
> to the motherboard.

The solution was to make the bezel thicker and stick the SD slot there. 
  Oh No!  That would be form following function.  It's not pretty!

>
> When you look at the new MacPro, the initial feeling may be "it's a
> closed architecture like iMac, not expandable for the sake of letting
> Ive go nuts on design" and scaring professionals away from it.
>
> BUT, once you remove emotion, what if the new MacPro has everything you
> need inside which greatly reduces the chances you ever need to add to it ?

That would depend on the needs of the user.  The new Mac Pro doesn't 
have _ANY_ means to add specialized boards for any purpose.  So unless 
such needs appear in 3rd party devices to do those functions the new Mac 
Pro is just a super-Mac in a large can.

As to design it is great - for anyone who needs a massively powerful 
computer on their desk and will be putting large storage in expensive 
boxed somewhere nearby.

-- 
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."
                                                  -Unknown

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#49225

In article <2013092816361971744-michaelusenet@icloudcom>,
 Michael Savich <michaelusenet@icloud.com> wrote:

> On 2013-09-24 20:58:33 +0000, Your Name said:
> 
> > 
> >     New models include:
> > 
> >        21.5-inch
> >        - $1299: 2.7 GHz quad-core i5 and Intel Iris Pro graphics
> >        - $1499: 2.9 GHz quad-core Intel i5 and NVIDIA GeForce GT
> >                 750M with 1 GB video memory
> > 
> >        27-inch
> >        - $1799: 3.2 GHz quad-core Intel Core i5 and NVIDIA
> >                 GeForce GT 755M with 1 GB video memory
> >        - $1999: 3.4 GHz quad-core Intel Core i5 and NVIDIA
> >                 GeForce GTX 775M with 2 GB video memory
> > 
> > 
> 
> Anybody else notice the lowest-end model uses integrated graphics? A 
> desktop without a graphics card- now that's something.

My aunt just bought one...

...and she will never ever have cause to lament having integrated 
graphics.

-- 
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

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