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Re: Kids react to old computers

From Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Newsgroups misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.ipad, comp.sys.mac.system
Subject Re: Kids react to old computers
Date 2014-06-05 09:33 +1200
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <050620140933441734%YourName@YourISP.com> (permalink)
References (7 earlier) <lmknrq$ibn$1@news.sap-ag.de> <040620140924536299%YourName@YourISP.com> <lmmfjt$f8q$1@news.sap-ag.de> <040620141919057717%YourName@YourISP.com> <lmn41t$91e$1@news.sap-ag.de>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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In article <lmn41t$91e$1@news.sap-ag.de>, Michael Eyd <invalid@eyd.de>
wrote:
> Am 04.06.2014 09:19, schrieb Your Name:
> > In article <lmmfjt$f8q$1@news.sap-ag.de>, Michael Eyd
> > <invalid@eyd.de> wrote:
> >
> >> Am 03.06.2014 23:24, schrieb Your Name:
> >>> In article <lmknrq$ibn$1@news.sap-ag.de>, Michael Eyd
> >>> <invalid@eyd.de> wrote:
> >>>> Am 28.05.2014 22:58, schrieb Your Name:
> >>>>> In article
> >>>>> <1lmdffk.yb292zewl08dN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>, Jamie
> >>>>> Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> <snip>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Though I was almost always an Apple II guy (what my
> >>>>>> schools had, and then Macs), so most of my experience with
> >>>>>> other old platforms is later on running them in emulation
> >>>>>> on Macs and WinPCs.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I often feel I missed some of the most exciting parts of
> >>>>>> early home computing history *wistful sigh* :-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yep, I had Apple II at school, Macs at university, Commodore
> >>>>> Vic20 / C64 / Amiga at home, and now a Mac at home.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I wouldn't worry about missing the "exciting parts of early
> >>>>> home computing history". Apart from Commodore and perhaps the
> >>>>> BBC / Archimedes, most of the early computers makes were
> >>>>> simply rubbish.
> >>>>
> >>>> I beg to differ! Compared to an Apple 2 especially the
> >>>> Commodore 64 (and even more so the VIC-20) was a video game
> >>>> console with a keyboard, but hardly a computer.
> >>>
> >>> The C64 in particular was a real computer,
> >>
> >> That's arguable, I for my part won't agree beyond a certain point.
> >>
> >>> but the hopeless management at Commodore failed to market it
> >>> properly, as they did even worse a few years later with the Amiga
> >>> and flushed themselves down the toilet. There were many small
> >>> businesses, farmers, etc. using C64 and even VIC20 as a computer,
> >>> but it's main popularity was as a home computer thanks to the
> >>> games.
> >>
> >> There were business back then running their software on every
> >> available computer - but in my eyes that won't make those machines
> >> 'business computers'...
> >
> > I never said it was a "business computer", just a "real computer".
> > :-)
> 
> However you argued around businesses... ;-)

I said people used it for business / work, which makes it a real
computer.



> >>>>> I had friends with TRS-80, various Sinclair toys, Atari, etc.
> >>>>> and they were all inferior machines. The Atari TOS was awful
> >>>>> for a supposedly superior machine, it was barely better than
> >>>>> using the C64 GUI with a joystick, which was horrible
> >>>>> enough.
> >>>>
> >>>> You compare Atari TOS with a GUI (on whichever machine)?
> >>>> That's like comparing an Apple ][ with a Macintosh... For your
> >>>> information: TOS was the basic OS for the Atari ST series, and
> >>>> it was text/command-based. However, it was hardly ever used
> >>>> directly, instead all the (needed) functions were available via
> >>>> the graphical UI GEM (being developed by Digital Research). And
> >>>> GEM was actually a match for the Macintosh OS of that time (and
> >>>> definitively much better than any Windows version prior to
> >>>> Windows 3, some might even argue for everything before Win95),
> >>>> though certainly not as refined in some aspects. Comparing GEM
> >>>> (+TOS) on an Atari ST with the GUIs available for the C64 is
> >>>> like comparing a Porsche 911 with a Volkswagen Beetle: Both
> >>>> will get you from A to B, but in a much different way... ;-)
> >>>
> >>> I did mean GEM on the Atari ST ... and yes it was slow, ugly,
> >>> clunky, unsuable crap,
> >>
> >> I used my Atari ST for quite some years, and I can't follow you on
> >> any of your claims.
> >
> > Ah weel, you should have bought a real computer and seen what a real
> > OS was like.  ;-)
> 
> That's why I bought the Atari, and was very happy with it! Leaving the
> Mac outside (way outside my financial possibilities at that time), the
> Atari ST was from my point of view the best computer you could buy at
> that time. Not perfect, but very good. :-)
> 
> Your views may differ though... ;-)

The Mac was (and still is) the only real choice, but for those of us at
home needing a chaeper computer, the Amiga was the second-best choice.
The Atari ST was popular with musicians due to the MIDI interface, but
was a in a long-way-back third place, just ahead of Windoze boxes.

I actually had the best of both of the top two choices - I was one of a
few people who helped the creator test the Amiga's Mac emulator, AMax.



> >>> just like the C64 GUI (GEOS), and not even remotely comparable to
> >>> the Macintosh's OS (the Apple II GS on the other hand is a bit of
> >>> a different story). At least the C64's GEOS had an excuse since
> >>> it was controlled for most people using a joystick.
> >>
> >> You keep comparing 8bit machines with GUIs with 16bit machines with
> >> GUIs - quite unfair in my eyes...
> >
> > That's because the Atari ST's GUI was awful!
> 
> Sounds really like you were (are) one of the Amiga fraction, that
> couldn't stand that the Atari was selling so much better... ;-)

The Atari wasn't selling better. Like Nintendo today, it was in last
place.

These days the Atari is dead. The Amiga is still going, sort of, with
even newer versions of the Amiga OS.  :-)
(Although the last plans I read for the "Amiga" was an idiotic set-top
TV box which has about as much to do with Commodore's computer as a an
onion running NASA.)



> >>> Windows 3 was just abysmal garbage as well,
> >>
> >> It was not good (certainly not for today's usability standards),
> >> but you could use it to get real things done. BTDT.
> >
> > You could use DOS to get things done, but that was horrible as well.
> 
> Actually I even used Apple DOS 3.3 (on an Apple //e) to get things
> done... ;-)

Sorry, I meant PC DOS.




> >>> Windows 95 was the real start of that OS
> >>
> >> It was a new UI paradigm (actually they basically copied the
> >> general ideas from the Mac), but the technical basis was still DOS
> >> and (lots of) Win 3.1... But I agree, it was the first Windows
> >> version that was actually fun to use... :-)
> >
> > No version of Windoze is "fun to use" - they're all horrible.
> 
> For me Win 95/98, Win XP and Win 7 are quite ok to use, with rest
> falling behind (some more, some less)...



> > Windows 95 was simply that first version that was even remotely
> > usable, and as you said, it's because they tried to copy the Mac
> > which already had the best OS.
> 
> I can't say too much about the qualities of the Macintosh OS back then,
> but at least for the UI part I agree. :-)

The Mac has had the bascially the same highly-usable OS since the
original Mac, although Mac OS X made a bit of a backwards step in the
early versions (and it looks like it might be going backwards again
with Ives in control).

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Thread

Kids react to old computers Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-05-26 09:55 -0700
  Re: Kids react to old computers Michael Eyd <invalid@eyd.de> - 2014-05-26 19:25 +0200
  Re: Kids react to old computers Calum <com.gmail@nospam.scottishwildcat> - 2014-05-26 19:02 +0100
    Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-05-27 08:53 +1200
      Re: Kids react to old computers Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-05-26 13:59 -0700
        Re: Kids react to old computers Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-05-27 01:18 -0700
      Re: Kids react to old computers jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2014-05-28 13:53 +1200
        Re: Kids react to old computers Michael Eyd <invalid@eyd.de> - 2014-05-28 08:30 +0200
          Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-05-28 19:01 +1200
          Re: Kids react to old computers jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2014-05-28 19:34 +1200
            Re: Kids react to old computers Michael Eyd <invalid@eyd.de> - 2014-05-28 10:06 +0200
              Re: Kids react to old computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-05-28 09:06 +0000
                Re: Kids react to old computers Michael Eyd <invalid@eyd.de> - 2014-05-28 12:30 +0200
            Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-05-29 08:58 +1200
              Re: Kids react to old computers Michael Eyd <invalid@eyd.de> - 2014-06-03 16:59 +0200
                Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-06-04 09:24 +1200
                Re: Kids react to old computers Michael Eyd <invalid@eyd.de> - 2014-06-04 08:50 +0200
                Re: Kids react to old computers David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2014-06-04 08:11 +0100
                Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-06-04 19:19 +1200
                Re: Kids react to old computers Michael Eyd <invalid@eyd.de> - 2014-06-04 14:39 +0200
                Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-06-05 09:33 +1200
                Re: Kids react to old computers Michael Eyd <invalid@eyd.de> - 2014-06-05 09:05 +0200
              Re: Kids react to old computers Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2014-07-07 09:06 -0400
                Re: Kids react to old computers Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-07-07 14:04 -0700
                Re: Kids react to old computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-07-08 00:17 +0000
                Re: Kids react to old computers Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> - 2014-07-08 14:36 -0600
                Re: Kids react to old computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-07-09 01:12 +0000
                Re: Kids react to old computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-07-08 21:22 -0400
                Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-07-09 13:40 +1200
                Re: Kids react to old computers Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> - 2014-07-09 15:13 -0600
                Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-07-10 09:34 +1200
                Re: Kids react to old computers Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> - 2014-07-09 08:03 -0600
                Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-07-10 09:18 +1200
                Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-07-09 13:42 +1200
                Re: Kids react to old computers Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2014-07-07 22:43 -0400
                Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-07-08 09:17 +1200
                Re: Kids react to old computers Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2014-07-07 22:44 -0400
                Re: Kids react to old computers "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-07-08 13:59 +1000
                Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-07-08 16:10 +1200
  Re: Kids react to old computers Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2014-05-26 19:05 +0100
    Re: Kids react to old computers Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-05-26 13:53 -0700
      Re: Kids react to old computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-05-26 17:23 -0400
        Re: Kids react to old computers Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-05-26 18:09 -0700
          Re: Kids react to old computers Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-05-27 01:19 -0700
      Re: Kids react to old computers Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2014-05-26 22:23 +0100
        Re: Kids react to old computers bknight@conramp.net - 2014-05-26 16:48 -0500
          Re: Kids react to old computers Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-26 15:10 -0700
        Re: Kids react to old computers dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2014-05-27 08:43 +1000
        Re: Kids react to old computers Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-05-26 18:08 -0700
          Re: Kids react to old computers Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2014-05-27 13:31 +0100
        Re: Kids react to old computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-05-27 05:14 +0000
        Re: Kids react to old computers "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2014-05-27 17:04 -0400
          Re: Kids react to old computers Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-27 15:38 -0700
          Re: Kids react to old computers Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2014-05-27 23:58 +0100
  Re: Kids react to old computers Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-26 12:14 -0700
    Re: Kids react to old computers Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-05-26 13:49 -0700
      Re: Kids react to old computers Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-26 14:12 -0700
      Re: Kids react to old computers Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-05-26 17:57 -0700
        Re: Kids react to old computers Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-05-26 18:07 -0700
          Re: Kids react to old computers Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-26 18:39 -0700
            Re: Kids react to old computers Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-05-26 20:20 -0700
          Re: Kids react to old computers Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2014-07-07 22:23 -0400
            Re: Kids react to old computers Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-07-07 20:13 -0700
            Re: Kids react to old computers Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-07-07 20:31 -0700
              Re: Kids react to old computers "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2014-07-14 17:45 -0400
                Re: Kids react to old computers Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-15 10:19 -0700
    Re: Kids react to old computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 18:19 -0400
      Re: Kids react to old computers Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-26 17:24 -0700
        Re: Kids react to old computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-05-26 22:16 -0400
          Re: Kids react to old computers Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-05-27 08:41 +0100
        Re: Kids react to old computers TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft@me.com> - 2014-05-26 21:48 -0500
      Re: Kids react to old computers mortman <mortn@comcast.net> - 2014-05-26 21:12 -0400
      Re: Kids react to old computers Recliner <recliner2-news@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-26 21:00 -0500
        Re: Kids react to old computers Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-26 19:35 -0700
        Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-05-27 16:08 +1200
          Re: Kids react to old computers Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-05-26 22:00 -0700
          Re: Kids react to old computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-05-27 18:06 -0400
            Re: Kids react to old computers Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-05-27 18:16 -0700
        Re: Kids react to old computers erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-05-27 10:22 -0500
          Re: Kids react to old computers Harry Mudd <Agent001@Section-31.org> - 2014-06-04 22:48 -0400
        Re: Kids react to old computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-27 12:39 -0400
          Re: Kids react to old computers Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-05-27 16:13 -0400
            Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-05-28 09:02 +1200
              Re: Kids react to old computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-05-27 18:15 -0400
                Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-05-28 17:10 +1200
                Re: Kids react to old computers Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2014-05-28 15:44 +0000
                Re: Kids react to old computers Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-05-31 07:47 -0700
              Re: Kids react to old computers Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-05-28 00:41 -0400
                Re: Kids react to old computers Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-05-27 21:50 -0700
                Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-05-28 18:11 +1200
    Re: Kids react to old computers erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-05-27 10:20 -0500
  Re: Kids react to old computers Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-05-27 01:17 -0700
  Re: Kids react to old computers erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-05-27 10:18 -0500
    Re: Kids react to old computers Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-05-27 09:17 -0700
    Re: Kids react to old computers Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-05-27 09:36 -0700
      Re: Kids react to old computers Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-05-27 09:47 -0700
        Re: Kids react to old computers Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-05-27 12:27 -0700
  Re: Kids react to old computers Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-05-27 16:40 -0400
    Re: Kids react to old computers Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-05-28 00:25 -0400
      Re: Kids react to old computers Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-05-31 11:12 -0400
        Re: Kids react to old computers Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2014-06-01 14:45 +0000
          Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-06-02 09:24 +1200
            Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-06-02 14:45 +1200
  Re: Kids react to old computers Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com> - 2014-06-01 19:42 +0200
    Re: Kids react to old computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-01 14:01 -0400
      Re: Kids react to old computers Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com> - 2014-06-02 09:01 +0200
        Re: Kids react to old computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-02 11:29 -0400
          Re: Kids react to old computers Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com> - 2014-06-06 06:14 +0200
            Re: Kids react to old computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-06 01:33 -0400
              Re: Kids react to old computers Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-05 23:22 -0700
                Re: Kids react to old computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-06-06 02:36 -0400
                Re: Kids react to old computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-06 02:41 -0400
                Re: Kids react to old computers Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 13:21 +0200
                Re: Kids react to old computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-07 10:13 -0400
                Re: Kids react to old computers Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-06 00:00 -0700
                Re: Kids react to old computers Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 13:20 +0200
                Re: Kids react to old computers "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-06-08 11:52 +1000
                Re: Kids react to old computers Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-08 04:08 +0000
                Re: Kids react to old computers "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-06-09 07:48 +1000
                Re: Kids react to old computers Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-07 23:43 -0700
                Re: Kids react to old computers "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-06-08 19:36 +1000
                Re: Kids react to old computers Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-08 03:09 -0700
                Re: Kids react to old computers "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-06-09 07:15 +1000
                Re: Kids react to old computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-07 10:13 -0400
              Re: Kids react to old computers Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 13:18 +0200
                Re: Kids react to old computers Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-06-07 18:03 +0100
                Re: Kids react to old computers News <News@Group.Post> - 2014-06-07 14:08 -0400
                Re: Kids react to old computers "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-06-08 11:51 +1000
                Re: Kids react to old computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-07 13:46 -0400
            Re: Kids react to old computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-06-06 18:36 +1200
      Re: Kids react to old computers "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 13:51 +1000
    Re: Kids react to old computers Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-06-01 21:54 -0400
  Re: Kids react to old computers Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2014-07-07 09:05 -0400
    Re: Kids react to old computers Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-07-09 06:58 -0700
      Re: Kids react to old computers Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-07-09 07:01 -0700
        Re: Kids react to old computers Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-07-09 07:02 -0700
          Re: Kids react to old computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-07-09 12:24 -0400
          Re: Kids react to old computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-07-09 18:00 +0000
          Re: Kids react to old computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-07-09 16:01 -0400
            Re: Kids react to old computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-07-09 16:21 -0400
            Re: Kids react to old computers Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-09 13:40 -0700
    Re: Kids react to old computers Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-07-09 07:04 -0700

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