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Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks?

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  Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2020-11-11 14:46 -0600
    Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-11-11 12:57 -0800
      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2020-11-11 16:40 -0600
        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Tim <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2020-11-11 22:45 +0000
          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2020-11-11 20:00 -0600
            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-11 21:06 -0500
            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-11-12 15:09 +1300
        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-11 17:46 -0500
        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-11-11 15:27 -0800
          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-11-12 12:50 +1300
        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-11 20:07 -0500
          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-11 20:15 -0500
            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-12 13:34 -0500
              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-12 14:20 -0500
              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-13 10:15 +0000
              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-13 11:43 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-13 12:47 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-13 13:22 -0500
                  Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-13 15:40 -0500
            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-12 14:00 -0500
              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-12 14:21 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-13 02:13 -0500
                  Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-13 06:30 -0500
                    Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-13 15:43 +0000
                      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2020-11-13 16:42 +0000
                      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-13 13:16 -0500
                        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2020-11-13 19:19 +0000
                        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-13 20:18 +0000
                          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-13 16:58 -0500
                            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 00:51 +0000
              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-13 11:45 -0500
            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-13 11:27 -0500
          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-12 14:56 +0000
        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-12 14:54 +0000
    Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-11 22:22 +0000
      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-11-11 14:39 -0800
        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-12 14:48 +0000
      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2020-11-11 16:40 -0600
        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-11 17:46 -0500
        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Tim <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2020-11-11 22:46 +0000
        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-11-12 12:39 +1300
          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2020-11-11 20:01 -0600
            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-12 14:51 +0000
              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-12 14:12 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-12 14:21 -0500
                  Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-13 11:56 -0500
                    Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-13 20:20 +0000
                      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-13 15:47 -0500
                        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 00:54 +0000
                          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-13 20:06 -0500
                            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 09:47 +0000
                              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-14 05:21 -0500
                                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-14 08:29 -0500
                                  Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-14 12:21 -0500
                                    Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-14 13:04 -0500
                                      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-14 13:40 -0500
                                  Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-14 12:40 -0500
                                    Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-14 13:04 -0500
                                    Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-14 13:26 -0500
                                      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-14 14:48 -0500
                                        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-14 15:08 -0500
                                        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-14 15:50 -0500
                                          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-14 22:46 -0500
                                            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-15 11:56 -0500
                                              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-16 09:47 -0500
                                                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-16 10:43 -0500
                                                  Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-16 17:25 -0500
                                                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-16 15:48 +0000
                                                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-16 14:01 -0500
                                                  Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-16 18:53 -0500
                                                    Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-16 21:33 -0500
                                                    Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-17 20:04 -0500
                                        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 23:28 +0000
                                    Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 18:40 +0000
                                      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-14 13:47 -0500
                                        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-14 14:52 -0500
                                          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-14 15:08 -0500
                                          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 23:26 +0000
                                            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-14 22:52 -0500
                                              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-15 10:15 +0000
                                                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-11-16 09:05 +1300
                                              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-15 08:09 -0500
                                              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-17 14:42 -0500
                                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 14:04 +0000
                                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2020-11-14 15:41 +0000
                                  Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-14 12:46 -0500
                                    Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2020-11-14 18:00 +0000
                          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-14 09:30 -0500
                            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 16:51 +0000
                              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-14 12:12 -0500
                                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 18:34 +0000
                                  Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-14 14:20 -0500
                                    Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 23:20 +0000
                                      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-14 19:39 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-13 10:12 +0000
        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-12 14:50 +0000

Page 5 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5]

#1423

On 2020-11-15 10:15:54 +0000, Lewis said:
> In message <2C1sH.110171$4d1.92234@fx09.iad> JF Mezei 
> <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>> On 2020-11-14 18:26, Lewis wrote:
>>> 
>>> Eventually. Honestly, "net year" is lightning speed for Adobe.
>> 
>> Adobe would have been aware of Apple's move to ARm for some time, well
>> before WWDC announcement. Adobe has also ported Photoshop to IOS/iPAD
>> OS, so some of that work may already have been done.
> 
> And yet, Adobe is slow. Adobe is always slow. Their sloth has nothing to
> do with anything or anyone who is not Adobe.
> 
>> What surprises me is that Photoshop was mentioned, not Première or After
>> Effects which are facr more complex software in terms of hardware
>> interaction because they, at least on Wintel with CUDA GPSU will make
>> use of the GPUs a lot.
> 
> Photoshop is Adobe's #1 product.
<snip>

Depends on how you 'calculate' that. In terms of dollar-sales value, 
Photoshop could be their #1 product, but in terms of users it's more 
likely the free Adobe Acrobat Reader.

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#1421

In article <2C1sH.110171$4d1.92234@fx09.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> Adobe would have been aware of Apple's move to ARm for some time, well
> before WWDC announcement. 

no

> Adobe has also ported Photoshop to IOS/iPAD
> OS, so some of that work may already have been done.

also wrong.

the ios version of photoshop is not in any way a port.

> What surprises me is that Photoshop was mentioned, not Première or After
> Effects which are facr more complex software in terms of hardware
> interaction because they, at least on Wintel with CUDA GPSU will make
> use of the GPUs a lot.

photoshop has massive name recognition. just about everyone has heard
of it. it's even become a verb.

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#1431

In article <2C1sH.110171$4d1.92234@fx09.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> > Omni, all app on day one for M1. Affinity, all apps on M1 on one. Adobe
> > and Microsoft? Eh, some day next year probably. Google? 2027 for
> > anything not Chrome.
> 
> 
> The keynote spoke at great length of its laptops for video and photo
> editing. It didn't focus on those laptops being use for workd processor
> or email. If the keynote focuses on the very tasks handled by Adobe,
> then if Adobe isn't there, it's a problem.
> 
> (Especially since at WWDC they demoed Adobe software running translated,
> which shows they place importance on Adobe software.

native photoshop will be a lot sooner than you might think.

<https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/17/photoshop-apple-silicon-beta/>
  We are excited to announce the first Beta release of Photoshop
  running natively on Apple Silicon hardware!

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#1392

In message <kcOrH.306825$mK4.71532@fx03.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2020-11-14 04:47, Lewis wrote:

>> Yeo, especially considering how simple the transition from Intel to ARM
>> was for the developers (One spent several days porting, but the others
>> did their ports in under a day and one spent less than 15 minutes).

> Simple enough that it will take months more for Adobe to release native
> Photoshop.

Adobe is Adobe and always moves at a snail's pace. Affinity will be out
day one, for example. ALL the Omni apps are ready to go on M1 Macs. Many
many others as well.

> If you want to create binaries that make use of the new various
> sub-processors like neural engine, image processor etc, support the
> integrated GPUs etc, you need to start putting in a lot of conditional
> code that applies only for a compilation targetted at the Mx chips, and
> still generate your normal code for all other platforms.

You have no fucking clue what you are talking about. Again. Nothing in
that paragraph is at all accurate.

> Remains to be seen how much use Adobe will make the the proprietary
> processors around he CPU, and how much Metal/GPU they will use.

And the idiocy continues.

-- 
Psychic convention cancelled due to unforeseen problems.

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#1394

On 2020-11-14, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2020-11-14 04:47, Lewis wrote:
>
>> Yeo, especially considering how simple the transition from Intel to
>> ARM was for the developers (One spent several days porting, but the
>> others did their ports in under a day and one spent less than 15
>> minutes).
>
> Simple enough that it will take months more for Adobe to release
> native Photoshop.

Fuck off, FUDster. Adobe is famous in the Mac community for taking
longer than most other developers to update their apps.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#1399

On 2020-11-14 10:41, Jolly Roger wrote:

> Fuck off, FUDster. Adobe is famous in the Mac community for taking
> longer than most other developers to update their apps.


Are you calling Tim Cook a FUDster? he is the one who announced
Photoshop would arrive next year.

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#1400

On 2020-11-14, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2020-11-14 10:41, Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>> Fuck off, FUDster. Adobe is famous in the Mac community for taking
>> longer than most other developers to update their apps.
>
> Are you calling Tim Cook a FUDster? he is the one who announced
> Photoshop would arrive next year.

I'm calling *you* a FUDster, because in response to a statement about
developers transitioning iquickly and easily from Intel to ARM quickly,
you picked the absolute worst example (Adobe is famous for lagging
behind other more nimble developers when it comes to updating their
apps) to counter that statement in an effort to instill doubt. 

All you do here is spread FUD. And it's fucking pathetic. 

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#1393

On 2020-11-13 19:54, Lewis wrote:
> In message <HhCrH.320247$GQ4.306084@fx02.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2020-11-13 15:20, Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <0VyrH.145047$Ml5.103301@fx24.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2020-11-12 14:21, nospam wrote:
>>>>> In article <uOfrH.514768$RY8.72367@fx48.iad>, JF Mezei
>>>>> <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Asll we know is "unified memory" which is meaningless marketing mumble
>>>>>> jumble.
>>>>>
>>>>> nonsense.
>>>
>>>> It is marketing speak to a degree.  Per a Wikipedia article[1] the SOC
>>>> uses 3733 MHz LPDDR4X spec'd SDRAM as an included component within the
>>>> SOC.  Still needs a memory manager though that may be more deeply
>>>> integrated in the CPU; likely has DMA of some kind, esp. for the GPU,
>>>> but other I/O as well.
>>>
>>>> [1] that source has no reference so I declare escape clause.  But it's a
>>>> good bet if someone has seen that in System Info declared as such on the
>>>> many, many developer systems out there.
>>>
>>> What many many developer systems out there?
> 
>> Thousands...
> 
> Nonsense.

Really.  Even my lowly Pascal compiler developer got one and very 
quickly.  It was underwhelming in the sense that the new compiler was 
tested and ready in mere days.

> 
>>> (The DTK is not an M1 machine).
> 
>> I assumed it was.
> 
> You assumed wrong. As was detailed at the time it is a A12X. Literally
> an iPad chip. It does not have unified memory. It does not have
> USB-4/TB. It is not the same chip *at all*

Fine.

> 
>> Nevertheless, the use of the memory model cited above is quite
>> possible and that that part of the fab is supplied by the chip maker
>> whether on the same wafer or other.
> 
> The chip maker supplies exactly what Apple designed, nothing more,
> nothing less.

Simplest path: spec an existing type that is in the fabs capability and 
meets the spec.


-- 
"...there are many humorous things in this world; among them the white
  man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages."
                                             -Samuel Clemens

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#1395

In message <aSRrH.889498$AN2.12718@fx46.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2020-11-13 19:54, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <HhCrH.320247$GQ4.306084@fx02.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>> On 2020-11-13 15:20, Lewis wrote:
>>>> In message <0VyrH.145047$Ml5.103301@fx24.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2020-11-12 14:21, nospam wrote:
>>>>>> In article <uOfrH.514768$RY8.72367@fx48.iad>, JF Mezei
>>>>>> <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Asll we know is "unified memory" which is meaningless marketing mumble
>>>>>>> jumble.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> nonsense.
>>>>
>>>>> It is marketing speak to a degree.  Per a Wikipedia article[1] the SOC
>>>>> uses 3733 MHz LPDDR4X spec'd SDRAM as an included component within the
>>>>> SOC.  Still needs a memory manager though that may be more deeply
>>>>> integrated in the CPU; likely has DMA of some kind, esp. for the GPU,
>>>>> but other I/O as well.
>>>>
>>>>> [1] that source has no reference so I declare escape clause.  But it's a
>>>>> good bet if someone has seen that in System Info declared as such on the
>>>>> many, many developer systems out there.
>>>>
>>>> What many many developer systems out there?
>> 
>>> Thousands...
>> 
>> Nonsense.

> Really.  Even my lowly Pascal compiler developer got one and very 
> quickly.  It was underwhelming in the sense that the new compiler was 
> tested and ready in mere days.

Again, the DTK Is NOT the M1 mac. At all. 

> Simplest path: spec an existing type that is in the fabs capability and 
> meets the spec.

Are you channeling JF?


-- 
> I miss the old days. I haven't killed anyone in years.
>
That's sad.

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#1396

On 2020-11-14 11:51, Lewis wrote:
> In message <aSRrH.889498$AN2.12718@fx46.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2020-11-13 19:54, Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <HhCrH.320247$GQ4.306084@fx02.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2020-11-13 15:20, Lewis wrote:
>>>>> In message <0VyrH.145047$Ml5.103301@fx24.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2020-11-12 14:21, nospam wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <uOfrH.514768$RY8.72367@fx48.iad>, JF Mezei
>>>>>>> <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Asll we know is "unified memory" which is meaningless marketing mumble
>>>>>>>> jumble.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> nonsense.
>>>>>
>>>>>> It is marketing speak to a degree.  Per a Wikipedia article[1] the SOC
>>>>>> uses 3733 MHz LPDDR4X spec'd SDRAM as an included component within the
>>>>>> SOC.  Still needs a memory manager though that may be more deeply
>>>>>> integrated in the CPU; likely has DMA of some kind, esp. for the GPU,
>>>>>> but other I/O as well.
>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] that source has no reference so I declare escape clause.  But it's a
>>>>>> good bet if someone has seen that in System Info declared as such on the
>>>>>> many, many developer systems out there.
>>>>>
>>>>> What many many developer systems out there?
>>>
>>>> Thousands...
>>>
>>> Nonsense.   [1] <------
> 
>> Really.  Even my lowly Pascal compiler developer got one and very
>> quickly.  It was underwhelming in the sense that the new compiler was
>> tested and ready in mere days.
> 
> Again, the DTK Is NOT the M1 mac. At all.

Yeah, resolved in prior posts.

I wasn't being specific to the processor - only that Apple put out 
thousands of transition developer kits.

> 
>> Simplest path: spec an existing type that is in the fabs capability and
>> meets the spec.
> 
> Are you channeling JF?

Not at all.

-- 
"...there are many humorous things in this world; among them the white
  man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages."
                                             -Samuel Clemens

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#1404

In message <ceUrH.308904$1a1.122503@fx18.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2020-11-14 11:51, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <aSRrH.889498$AN2.12718@fx46.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>> On 2020-11-13 19:54, Lewis wrote:
>>>> In message <HhCrH.320247$GQ4.306084@fx02.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2020-11-13 15:20, Lewis wrote:
>>>>>> In message <0VyrH.145047$Ml5.103301@fx24.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2020-11-12 14:21, nospam wrote:
>>>>>>>> In article <uOfrH.514768$RY8.72367@fx48.iad>, JF Mezei
>>>>>>>> <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Asll we know is "unified memory" which is meaningless marketing mumble
>>>>>>>>> jumble.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> nonsense.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is marketing speak to a degree.  Per a Wikipedia article[1] the SOC
>>>>>>> uses 3733 MHz LPDDR4X spec'd SDRAM as an included component within the
>>>>>>> SOC.  Still needs a memory manager though that may be more deeply
>>>>>>> integrated in the CPU; likely has DMA of some kind, esp. for the GPU,
>>>>>>> but other I/O as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1] that source has no reference so I declare escape clause.  But it's a
>>>>>>> good bet if someone has seen that in System Info declared as such on the
>>>>>>> many, many developer systems out there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What many many developer systems out there?
>>>>
>>>>> Thousands...
>>>>
>>>> Nonsense.   [1] <------
>> 
>>> Really.  Even my lowly Pascal compiler developer got one and very
>>> quickly.  It was underwhelming in the sense that the new compiler was
>>> tested and ready in mere days.
>> 
>> Again, the DTK Is NOT the M1 mac. At all.

> Yeah, resolved in prior posts.

> I wasn't being specific to the processor - only that Apple put out 
> thousands of transition developer kits.

You were talking out the unified memory in the M1 chip and comparing it
to the DTK.

>>> Simplest path: spec an existing type that is in the fabs capability and
>>> meets the spec.
>> 
>> Are you channeling JF?

> Not at all.

Seems like it. The M1 is not an "existing type" it is a new chip
designed by Apple and made to their design. it is not being assembled out
of other bits.

-- 
Women like silent men, they think they're listening.

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#1408

On 2020-11-14 13:34, Lewis wrote:
> In message <ceUrH.308904$1a1.122503@fx18.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2020-11-14 11:51, Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <aSRrH.889498$AN2.12718@fx46.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2020-11-13 19:54, Lewis wrote:
>>>>> In message <HhCrH.320247$GQ4.306084@fx02.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2020-11-13 15:20, Lewis wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <0VyrH.145047$Ml5.103301@fx24.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2020-11-12 14:21, nospam wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In article <uOfrH.514768$RY8.72367@fx48.iad>, JF Mezei
>>>>>>>>> <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Asll we know is "unified memory" which is meaningless marketing mumble
>>>>>>>>>> jumble.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> nonsense.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is marketing speak to a degree.  Per a Wikipedia article[1] the SOC
>>>>>>>> uses 3733 MHz LPDDR4X spec'd SDRAM as an included component within the
>>>>>>>> SOC.  Still needs a memory manager though that may be more deeply
>>>>>>>> integrated in the CPU; likely has DMA of some kind, esp. for the GPU,
>>>>>>>> but other I/O as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [1] that source has no reference so I declare escape clause.  But it's a
>>>>>>>> good bet if someone has seen that in System Info declared as such on the
>>>>>>>> many, many developer systems out there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What many many developer systems out there?
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thousands...
>>>>>
>>>>> Nonsense.   [1] <------
>>>
>>>> Really.  Even my lowly Pascal compiler developer got one and very
>>>> quickly.  It was underwhelming in the sense that the new compiler was
>>>> tested and ready in mere days.
>>>
>>> Again, the DTK Is NOT the M1 mac. At all.
> 
>> Yeah, resolved in prior posts.
> 
>> I wasn't being specific to the processor - only that Apple put out
>> thousands of transition developer kits.
> 
> You were talking out the unified memory in the M1 chip and comparing it
> to the DTK.

I took your objection to be the word "Thousands".  That was me 
referencing the number of dev kits.  Not what specific processor was in 
there.

>>>> Simplest path: spec an existing type that is in the fabs capability and
>>>> meets the spec.
>>>
>>> Are you channeling JF?
> 
>> Not at all.
> 
> Seems like it. The M1 is not an "existing type" it is a new chip
> designed by Apple and made to their design. it is not being assembled out
> of other bits.

Those elements can come from different designers(companies) with the 
data for the design transferred to Apple to integrate into their overall 
design by specification.

Apple claim "16 billion transistors" for the M1.  That can't possibly 
represent the entire CPU + 8 GB or 16 GB of memory.  (8 GiB would take a 
minimum of 64B transistors for a DRAM and 6 times that for SRAM plus all 
the interface logic (address decode, etc.)).

So, could be integrated as separate chips onto 1 carrier:

Looking at: 
https://www.apple.com/v/mac/m1/a/images/overview/chip__fffqz3ljssi2_large.jpg

That looks like 2 memory modules integrated onto the same carrier as the 
processor portion to the left.

IAC: we'll see in an M1 Mac if the memory "spec" is listed in the system 
information.  I look forward to your screenshot.

-- 
"...there are many humorous things in this world; among them the white
  man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages."
                                             -Samuel Clemens

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#1414

In message <D5WrH.797928$eN2.187141@fx47.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2020-11-14 13:34, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <ceUrH.308904$1a1.122503@fx18.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>> On 2020-11-14 11:51, Lewis wrote:
>>>> In message <aSRrH.889498$AN2.12718@fx46.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2020-11-13 19:54, Lewis wrote:
>>>>>> In message <HhCrH.320247$GQ4.306084@fx02.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2020-11-13 15:20, Lewis wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <0VyrH.145047$Ml5.103301@fx24.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2020-11-12 14:21, nospam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In article <uOfrH.514768$RY8.72367@fx48.iad>, JF Mezei
>>>>>>>>>> <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Asll we know is "unified memory" which is meaningless marketing mumble
>>>>>>>>>>> jumble.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> nonsense.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It is marketing speak to a degree.  Per a Wikipedia article[1] the SOC
>>>>>>>>> uses 3733 MHz LPDDR4X spec'd SDRAM as an included component within the
>>>>>>>>> SOC.  Still needs a memory manager though that may be more deeply
>>>>>>>>> integrated in the CPU; likely has DMA of some kind, esp. for the GPU,
>>>>>>>>> but other I/O as well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [1] that source has no reference so I declare escape clause.  But it's a
>>>>>>>>> good bet if someone has seen that in System Info declared as such on the
>>>>>>>>> many, many developer systems out there.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What many many developer systems out there?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thousands...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nonsense.   [1] <------
>>>>
>>>>> Really.  Even my lowly Pascal compiler developer got one and very
>>>>> quickly.  It was underwhelming in the sense that the new compiler was
>>>>> tested and ready in mere days.
>>>>
>>>> Again, the DTK Is NOT the M1 mac. At all.
>> 
>>> Yeah, resolved in prior posts.
>> 
>>> I wasn't being specific to the processor - only that Apple put out
>>> thousands of transition developer kits.
>> 
>> You were talking out the unified memory in the M1 chip and comparing it
>> to the DTK.

> I took your objection to be the word "Thousands".  That was me 
> referencing the number of dev kits.  Not what specific processor was in 
> there.

>>>>> Simplest path: spec an existing type that is in the fabs capability and
>>>>> meets the spec.
>>>>
>>>> Are you channeling JF?
>> 
>>> Not at all.
>> 
>> Seems like it. The M1 is not an "existing type" it is a new chip
>> designed by Apple and made to their design. it is not being assembled out
>> of other bits.

> Those elements can come from different designers(companies) with the 
> data for the design transferred to Apple to integrate into their overall 
> design by specification.

No, I don't think that is correct. The SoC is entirely Apple design.

> Apple claim "16 billion transistors" for the M1.  That can't possibly 
> represent the entire CPU + 8 GB or 16 GB of memory.  (8 GiB would take a 
> minimum of 64B transistors for a DRAM and 6 times that for SRAM plus all 
> the interface logic (address decode, etc.)).

The 16 billion transistors is for the CPUs specifically, not for the
entire M1. but how the RAM is integrated into the Soc? Sure, maybe those
components are sourced separately..

> So, could be integrated as separate chips onto 1 carrier:

> Looking at: 
> https://www.apple.com/v/mac/m1/a/images/overview/chip__fffqz3ljssi2_large.jpg

> That looks like 2 memory modules integrated onto the same carrier as the 
> processor portion to the left.

It does. We'll know more when someone scrapes an M1 and takes an
electron microscope to it, I suppose.

> IAC: we'll see in an M1 Mac if the memory "spec" is listed in the system 
> information.  I look forward to your screenshot.

Next month.


-- 
GRAMMAR IS NOT A TIME OF WASTE Bart chalkboard Ep. AABF10

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#1417

On 2020-11-14 18:20, Lewis wrote:
> In message <D5WrH.797928$eN2.187141@fx47.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2020-11-14 13:34, Lewis wrote:
>>> Seems like it. The M1 is not an "existing type" it is a new chip
>>> designed by Apple and made to their design. it is not being assembled out
>>> of other bits.
> 
>> Those elements can come from different designers(companies) with the
>> data for the design transferred to Apple to integrate into their overall
>> design by specification.
> 
> No, I don't think that is correct. The SoC is entirely Apple design.

Memory is a specialty not worth doing if someone else is a master at it. 
  Apple could license it and incorporate as needed.  Not to say Apple 
won't do their own memory in the future, but I'd bet they licensed it or 
bought the modules outright.  (or rather had the fab acquire the Apple 
spec'd modules from the fab that made the modules unless it's the same 
fab...)

> 
>> Apple claim "16 billion transistors" for the M1.  That can't possibly
>> represent the entire CPU + 8 GB or 16 GB of memory.  (8 GiB would take a
>> minimum of 64B transistors for a DRAM and 6 times that for SRAM plus all
>> the interface logic (address decode, etc.)).
> 
> The 16 billion transistors is for the CPUs specifically, not for the
> entire M1. but how the RAM is integrated into the Soc? Sure, maybe those
> components are sourced separately..
> 
>> So, could be integrated as separate chips onto 1 carrier:
> 
>> Looking at:
>> https://www.apple.com/v/mac/m1/a/images/overview/chip__fffqz3ljssi2_large.jpg
> 
>> That looks like 2 memory modules integrated onto the same carrier as the
>> processor portion to the left.
> 
> It does. We'll know more when someone scrapes an M1 and takes an
> electron microscope to it, I suppose.

Look at the Apple M1 video around 07:40 - 07:50.  Not conclusive, but 
certainly suggestive.

-- 
"...there are many humorous things in this world; among them the white
  man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages."
                                             -Samuel Clemens

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#1368

In message <uOfrH.514768$RY8.72367@fx48.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> What sort of memery controller Apple uses will matter, especially when

You are talking out of your ass again.

> Asll we know is "unified memory" which is meaningless marketing mumble
> jumble.

No it isn't. the RAM is part of the SoC is what it means.

> It is only once independant testers riun standard benchmarks that we'll
> have an idea of actual performance. Apple's keynote provided nothing of
> value on performance. (look at their graphs, pretty lines, but no
> scale/numbers for each axis).

You obviously didn't pay attention. Again.

> Consider also that the Pro has a fan, the air doesn't. Yet, same CPU,
> same OS. So it is very likely that the Air will be speed throttled due
> to heat

Yes. The mini and the MBP are faster because they have fans, they
specifically said this. The Air is still really really fucking fast.

> while the Pro will see better performance when doing lengthy work.

Let me think of the right word to respond to this. It's tricky. Oh
wait, I've got it,

DUH!

> And it will make for interesting benchmark logic because you have cores
> of different speeds.

No, it won't. Benchmarks run everything t full power and processes don't
get to pick what cores run.

> The 4 slow cores will slow down the average of the 4 fast ones.

The 4 slower cores are twice the speed of the old MacBook Air, so even if
the performance cores never kick in, the new Air is twice the performance
of the old Air and has massive battery gains. In fact, if only the HE
cores are used that would probably increase the battery life even more.

-- 
'Vetinari isn't mad.' 'Depends how you look at it. No one can be as
	sane as he is without being mad.' --Feet of Clay

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#1356

In message <XP2dnVJnM_js9THCnZ2dnUU7-f-dnZ2d@earthlink.com> Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> In comp.sys.mac.system Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:
>> In message <B5ednfUswZo00DHCnZ2dnUU7-LudnZ2d@earthlink.com> Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>> > So, who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? ;)

>> I am ordering a MBA as soon as I decide if I should increase the RAM or
>> not. It will be mostly for my wife who almost certainly doesn't need
>> 16GB, but I am torn.

> Aren't the RAMs still soldered in? If so, then you might as well go as big as 
> you can afford. Same for storage. :(

The RAM is not soldered in, no. The RAM is part of the SOC.

She's been using laptops with 8GB of RAM for 8 years now. so I am sure
she has no need of more RAM, but eh... it adds $8/m interest free, so
went ahead.


-- 
This zone of tranquility is compromised

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