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Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks?

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  Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2020-11-11 14:46 -0600
    Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-11-11 12:57 -0800
      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2020-11-11 16:40 -0600
        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Tim <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2020-11-11 22:45 +0000
          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2020-11-11 20:00 -0600
            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-11 21:06 -0500
            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-11-12 15:09 +1300
        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-11 17:46 -0500
        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-11-11 15:27 -0800
          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-11-12 12:50 +1300
        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-11 20:07 -0500
          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-11 20:15 -0500
            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-12 13:34 -0500
              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-12 14:20 -0500
              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-13 10:15 +0000
              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-13 11:43 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-13 12:47 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-13 13:22 -0500
                  Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-13 15:40 -0500
            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-12 14:00 -0500
              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-12 14:21 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-13 02:13 -0500
                  Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-13 06:30 -0500
                    Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-13 15:43 +0000
                      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2020-11-13 16:42 +0000
                      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-13 13:16 -0500
                        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2020-11-13 19:19 +0000
                        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-13 20:18 +0000
                          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-13 16:58 -0500
                            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 00:51 +0000
              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-13 11:45 -0500
            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-13 11:27 -0500
          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-12 14:56 +0000
        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-12 14:54 +0000
    Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-11 22:22 +0000
      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-11-11 14:39 -0800
        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-12 14:48 +0000
      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2020-11-11 16:40 -0600
        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-11 17:46 -0500
        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Tim <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2020-11-11 22:46 +0000
        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-11-12 12:39 +1300
          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2020-11-11 20:01 -0600
            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-12 14:51 +0000
              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-12 14:12 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-12 14:21 -0500
                  Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-13 11:56 -0500
                    Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-13 20:20 +0000
                      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-13 15:47 -0500
                        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 00:54 +0000
                          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-13 20:06 -0500
                            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 09:47 +0000
                              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-14 05:21 -0500
                                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-14 08:29 -0500
                                  Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-14 12:21 -0500
                                    Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-14 13:04 -0500
                                      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-14 13:40 -0500
                                  Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-14 12:40 -0500
                                    Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-14 13:04 -0500
                                    Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-14 13:26 -0500
                                      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-14 14:48 -0500
                                        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-14 15:08 -0500
                                        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-14 15:50 -0500
                                          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-14 22:46 -0500
                                            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-15 11:56 -0500
                                              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-16 09:47 -0500
                                                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-16 10:43 -0500
                                                  Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-16 17:25 -0500
                                                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-16 15:48 +0000
                                                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-16 14:01 -0500
                                                  Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-16 18:53 -0500
                                                    Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-16 21:33 -0500
                                                    Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-17 20:04 -0500
                                        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 23:28 +0000
                                    Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 18:40 +0000
                                      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-14 13:47 -0500
                                        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-14 14:52 -0500
                                          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-14 15:08 -0500
                                          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 23:26 +0000
                                            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-14 22:52 -0500
                                              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-15 10:15 +0000
                                                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-11-16 09:05 +1300
                                              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-15 08:09 -0500
                                              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-17 14:42 -0500
                                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 14:04 +0000
                                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2020-11-14 15:41 +0000
                                  Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-14 12:46 -0500
                                    Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2020-11-14 18:00 +0000
                          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-14 09:30 -0500
                            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 16:51 +0000
                              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-14 12:12 -0500
                                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 18:34 +0000
                                  Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-14 14:20 -0500
                                    Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 23:20 +0000
                                      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-14 19:39 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-13 10:12 +0000
        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-12 14:50 +0000

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#1336 — Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks?

So, who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? ;)

Thank you for reading and hopefully answering. :)
-- 
Life's so loco! ..!.. *isms, sins, hates, (d)evil, tiredness, z, my body, illnesses (e.g., COVID-19 & SARS-CoV-2), deaths (RIP), heat, interruptions, issues, conflicts, obstacles, stresses, fires, out(r)ages, dramas, unlucky #4, 2020, greeds, bugs (e.g., crashes & female mosquitoes), etc. D:
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  /\___/\   Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
 / /\ /\ \                      Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o   o| |
   \ _ /
    ( )

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#1337

On 2020-11-11 12:46 p.m., Ant wrote:
> So, who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? ;)
> 
> Thank you for reading and hopefully answering. :)
> 

I'm seriously considering it.

I'm about due for a new system...

...but I'm loath to be an earlier adopter.

:-)

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#1340

In comp.sys.mac.system Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
> On 2020-11-11 12:46 p.m., Ant wrote:
> > So, who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? ;)
> > 
> > Thank you for reading and hopefully answering. :)
> > 

> I'm seriously considering it.

> I'm about due for a new system...

> ...but I'm loath to be an earlier adopter.

> :-)

It looks like Apple doesn't even sell its old Intel Macs from its web site? :(
-- 
Life's so loco! ..!.. *isms, sins, hates, (d)evil, tiredness, z, my body, illnesses (e.g., COVID-19 & SARS-CoV-2), deaths (RIP), heat, interruptions, issues, conflicts, obstacles, stresses, fires, out(r)ages, dramas, unlucky #4, 2020, greeds, bugs (e.g., crashes & female mosquitoes), etc. D:
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
  /\___/\   Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
 / /\ /\ \                      Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o   o| |
   \ _ /
    ( )

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#1342

On 11 Nov 2020 at 22:40:09 GMT, Ant <Ant> wrote:

> It looks like Apple doesn't even sell its old Intel Macs from its web site? :(

You can still buy Intel Minis.

-- 
Tim

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#1351

In comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc Tim <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
> On 11 Nov 2020 at 22:40:09 GMT, Ant <Ant> wrote:

> > It looks like Apple doesn't even sell its old Intel Macs from its web site? :(

> You can still buy Intel Minis.

Ah, but no MacBooks?
-- 
Life's so loco! ..!.. *isms, sins, hates, (d)evil, tiredness, z, my body, illnesses (e.g., COVID-19 & SARS-CoV-2), deaths (RIP), heat, interruptions, issues, conflicts, obstacles, stresses, fires, out(r)ages, dramas, unlucky #4, 2020, greeds, bugs (e.g., crashes & female mosquitoes), etc. D:
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
  /\___/\   Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
 / /\ /\ \                      Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o   o| |
   \ _ /
    ( )

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#1353

In article <VoydnT7Dncu7CjHCnZ2dnUU7-dWdnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Ant
<ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> > > It looks like Apple doesn't even sell its old Intel Macs from its web
> > > site? :(
> 
> > You can still buy Intel Minis.
> 
> Ah, but no MacBooks?

lots of them.

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#1354

On 2020-11-12 02:00:06 +0000, Ant said:
> In comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc Tim <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>> On 11 Nov 2020 at 22:40:09 GMT, Ant <Ant> wrote:
>>> 
>>> It looks like Apple doesn't even sell its old Intel Macs from its web site? :(
>> 
>> You can still buy Intel Minis.
> 
> Ah, but no MacBooks?

MacBook Pro 13", two Intel versions.
MacBook Air, no intel versions.

At least on the New Zealand Apple Store website.

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#1343

In article <XP2dnVNnM_jU9THCnZ2dnUU7-f-dnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Ant
<ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> It looks like Apple doesn't even sell its old Intel Macs from its web site? :(

yes they do, and there's a lot of them.

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#1346

On 2020-11-11 2:40 p.m., Ant wrote:
> In comp.sys.mac.system Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>> On 2020-11-11 12:46 p.m., Ant wrote:
>>> So, who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? ;)
>>>
>>> Thank you for reading and hopefully answering. :)
>>>
> 
>> I'm seriously considering it.
> 
>> I'm about due for a new system...
> 
>> ...but I'm loath to be an earlier adopter.
> 
>> :-)
> 
> It looks like Apple doesn't even sell its old Intel Macs from its web site? :(
> 

Nope.

It doesn't look like that at all.

PEBCAK

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#1348

On 2020-11-11 23:27:17 +0000, Alan Baker said:
> On 2020-11-11 2:40 p.m., Ant wrote:
>> In comp.sys.mac.system Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>>> On 2020-11-11 12:46 p.m., Ant wrote:
>>>> So, who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? ;)
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you for reading and hopefully answering. :)
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> I'm seriously considering it.
>>> 
>>> I'm about due for a new system...
>>> 
>>> ...but I'm loath to be an earlier adopter.
>>> 
>>> :-)
>> 
>> It looks like Apple doesn't even sell its old Intel Macs from its web site? :(
> 
> Nope.
> 
> It doesn't look like that at all.
> 
> PEBCAK

Depends on the model you're looking for (may also depend on the 
country). On the New Zealand Apple Store the list shows:

       - three Mac Mini models - 2 x M1, 1 x Intel
and    - four MacBook Pro 13" models - 2 x M1, 2 x Intel

But for the MacBook Air there is only the two M1 versions.

There will of course still be some old stock at Apple Autorised 
Retailers and probably appearing on the Refurb Store for a while (but 
stock there varies and can change quickly).

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#1349

On 2020-11-11 17:40, Ant wrote:

> It looks like Apple doesn't even sell its old Intel Macs from its web site? :(

In Canada, the MacBook 13" Pro is available in either M1 or Intel.

The M1 appears cheaper but the displayed price is for a comfig with less
RAM and less disk.

The 16GB config max for the Air is laughable.  Consider how much focus
on graphic designers/video editors there was in the keynote.

Remember the memory is not only welded but embedded inside the CPU chip
so no way to upgrade.   Suspect the 8GB models are actually 16GB inside
but with half disabled.  Same with the Air version (the cheaper one)
with 7 GPU cores instead of 8. Allows for thet to make use of chips with
defects.

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#1350

In article <VU%qH.433945$r25.305379@fx08.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> The 16GB config max for the Air is laughable.  

it's a completely different architecture, therefore direct comparisons
are bogus.

ipads and iphones do exceptionally well with 4 gig.

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#1361

On 2020-11-11 20:15, nospam wrote:
> In article <VU%qH.433945$r25.305379@fx08.iad>, JF Mezei
> <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> 
>> The 16GB config max for the Air is laughable.  
> 
> it's a completely different architecture, therefore direct comparisons
> are bogus.
> 
> ipads and iphones do exceptionally well with 4 gig.

In the keynote, Apple bragged about 8k video rendering on the MacBook Air.

A different architcture may change the size of executable code in RAM,
but it doesn't change buffer sizes when you render videos.

ARM being RISC, it should in fact require more instructions to do the
same work as CISC 8086.  Also, binaries from 64 bit platforms are larger
since the fields in each opcode are larger.

Going from CISC 32 bit VAX to 64 bit RISC Alpha resulted in substally
larger binaries, and the need to tune the system very differently as it
required far more memory for the shareable images (dynamic library).
which were bigger.


OS-X is already 64 bits so moving to 64 bit ARM won't change much, but
going from cisc to RISC does.

The iPhone has typically required less RAM than Android because it is
more efficient and compact. But both are on the same platform (ARM).

To say that moving from 8086 to ARM will require less memory is not logica.

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#1364

In article <gffrH.299239$mK4.212151@fx03.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> 
> Going from CISC 32 bit VAX

mezei law invoked.





> 
> To say that moving from 8086 to ARM will require less memory is not logica.

it is.

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#1369

In message <gffrH.299239$mK4.212151@fx03.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2020-11-11 20:15, nospam wrote:
>> In article <VU%qH.433945$r25.305379@fx08.iad>, JF Mezei
>> <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>> 
>>> The 16GB config max for the Air is laughable.  
>> 
>> it's a completely different architecture, therefore direct comparisons
>> are bogus.
>> 
>> ipads and iphones do exceptionally well with 4 gig.

> In the keynote, Apple bragged about 8k video rendering on the MacBook Air.

And you think they were lying.

> ARM being RISC, it should in fact require more instructions to do the
> same work as CISC 8086. 

You are, once again, talking out of your ass. Really, you need to get
out of the fucking 90s.

> Going from CISC 32 bit VAX

And there we are.

NO ONE FUCKING CARES ABOUT VAX. VAX IS NOT RELEVANT TO *ANYTHING*.

Fucking idiot.

-- 
The universe doesn't much care if you tread on a butterfly. There are
	plenty more butterflies. Gods might note the fall of a sparrow
	but they don't make any effort to catch them. --Lords and Ladies

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#1374

On 2020-11-12 13:34, JF Mezei wrote:

> ARM being RISC,

ARM's are RISCier than ever before just as CISC's are RISCier than ever.

Why that distinction is not talked about anymore ... or for that matter 
over the last 10 years or so for most computers.  It does still matter 
in lower end devices (routers for example) v. intel based microcontrollers.

Further, it's likely that Apple are implementing their own specialized 
instructions which would be CISCy, not RISCy.


-- 
"...there are many humorous things in this world; among them the white
  man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages."
                                             -Samuel Clemens

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#1377

On 2020-11-13 11:43, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2020-11-12 13:34, JF Mezei wrote:
> 
>> ARM being RISC,
> 
> ARM's are RISCier than ever before just as CISC's are RISCier than ever.
            CISCier... I meant to say.
> 
> Why that distinction is not talked about anymore ... or for that matter 
> over the last 10 years or so for most computers.  It does still matter 
> in lower end devices (routers for example) v. intel based microcontrollers.
> 
> Further, it's likely that Apple are implementing their own specialized 
> instructions which would be CISCy, not RISCy.
> 
> 


-- 
"...there are many humorous things in this world; among them the white
  man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages."
                                             -Samuel Clemens

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#1379

On 2020-11-13 11:43, Alan Browne wrote:

> Further, it's likely that Apple are implementing their own specialized 
> instructions which would be CISCy, not RISCy.

Apple seems to ave focued on adding discrete components such as the
neural processor, image processor etc to do these tasks.  Adding
instructions  would require compilers and LLVM be updated and be
specific to Apple and it is doubtful rhere would be much use of them.

Please remembes that the apologists argued that an ARM binary would be
smaller than an Intel one , hence need for less RAM on the laptop. That
is what I was responding to.

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#1383

On 2020-11-13 13:22, JF Mezei wrote:
> On 2020-11-13 11:43, Alan Browne wrote:
> 
>> Further, it's likely that Apple are implementing their own specialized
>> instructions which would be CISCy, not RISCy.
> 
> Apple seems to ave focued on adding discrete components such as the
> neural processor, image processor etc to do these tasks.  Adding
> instructions  would require compilers and LLVM be updated and be
> specific to Apple and it is doubtful rhere would be much use of them.

They can add all the instructions they want to their own compiler(s) w/o 
breaking anyone else's compilers. The later would simply not have access 
to the extended instructions.

It's up to Apple to decide what additional instructions would be of use 
to them and whether or not to publish the instructions for other 
compilers to use.

> 
> Please remembes that the apologists argued that an ARM binary would be
> smaller than an Intel one , hence need for less RAM on the laptop. That
> is what I was responding to.

Adding to instruction sets has 0 impact on the binary.  May even reduce 
it in particular cases.


-- 
"...there are many humorous things in this world; among them the white
  man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages."
                                             -Samuel Clemens

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#1362

On 2020-11-11 20:15, nospam wrote:
> In article <VU%qH.433945$r25.305379@fx08.iad>, JF Mezei
> <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> 
>> The 16GB config max for the Air is laughable.  
> 
> it's a completely different architecture, therefore direct comparisons
> are bogus.
> 
> ipads and iphones do exceptionally well with 4 gig.

Another aspect: that 8 or 16GB on a M1 based MAC is used for both the
CPU and the GPUs.  So less of the RAM is actually available to the OS
because the GPUs use the same RAM. (likekly why Apple requires to have
some machine virtualization capabilities to manage RAM and other
resource allocation between different operating system instances ( OS_X
on CPU, the GPU OS , the neural engine etc).

In the discrete GPU days, the GPUs have their own gigabytes of memory,
so did not eat on the CPU's RAM (though some was dupicated as the app
needed to pupulate some RAM which was then transfered to GPU, a step
that is bypassed on Apple's ARM chips as the GPU share the same memory).

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